Erda (The Primarchs' Mother) is a Horrible Character

[@Akimbo411]

“She took the kids, Malcador”

[@superitgel1]

Went bedridden and still paying alimony

[@DUCKDUDE4100]

SHE'S TURNED THE WAINS AGAINST US MAL!

[@John.Doe.272]

😄

[@neonnsteel]

Fuck me, I laughed.

[@desinteresado125]

''My Emperor, she didn't take the kids, she let the kids get ABDUCTED''

[@drekbleh7081]

I just headcanon'd that everything we know of Erda is just Lorgar's coping fanfiction "We had a mommy, who loved us and did everything in her power to keep us away from the false emperor who destroys all our hard work"

[@dabba_dabba]

As someone who prefers to view the stories as propaganda and unreliable secondary sources, I will now adopt this as my own head canon too.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

As someone who enjoys shitting on the word bearers and their choir boy of a father I three shall adopt this as my Canon.

[@SusCalvin]

Around 2nd edition, GW really liked unreliable narrators. There is no consistent art of the Emperor because neither his loyalists or his detractors actually know what He looks like in his current state and the last recordings of the bloke are ten millennia old. Rogue Trader was written with an authoritative narrator. I think GW wanted to lay out how their new setting worked, which imperial instititutions did what and at least make a frame for it all.

[@Ragmon1]

lol I read that in a 5 year old boys voice.... :D

[@nobodycares6633]

Needing a reason to be a demon follower.

[@igooog]

>Primarchs scattered >Years of buildup of the mystery >Lots of red herrings, from Horus yeeting them into the warp to Word Bearers time travelling and smashing up the lab >Siege of Terra >Erda throws the primarchs into the warp because of a custody battle Thanks Dan

[@brokenhalo2001]

Really makes me start to question who they have working for them these lasy few years. Or someone shuda been honest and told Dan to stop sniffing his own farts.

[@PSNSMANIACALMIND1st]

This sounds like the 40k writers are suffering the same midlife-crises as videogame devs and puking their lives into their work. Maybe when the emperor wakes up we'll get a story about him raising a new primarch in another galaxy as a redemption ark. Call it God of Man: Ragnarok

[@Technoanima]

😂 We feel this pain.

[@ConsueloWubba]

@@brokenhalo2001 Activists. They're all woke activists.

[@ahmedmahamedosman8950]

​@@ConsueloWubba Grow up, It's just bad writing. Some books were bad before the woke movement existed.

[@alangreene5776]

I really liked when Primarchs had no mother, and were practically Emperor's modified clones. Literally created in labs, unnaturally. It made the Primarch's sometimes childish behavior more understandable, since they were cloned from flesh of the Emperor and not from a pair of parents. Hence the primarchs with healthy parental figures being more stable. Also it made the Chaos forces more scary and impossible to get rid of, considering they managed to infiltrate Emperors most important labs and stole his sons right under his nose. Erda's existance removes all of this. Infiltration of emperors currently most important project? naa Erda did it lmao, no biggie

[@The.Orange.Wizard]

Reading through The First Heretic wasn’t the scattering of the Primarch due to a gellar field failure caused by Argel Tal with some warpish time fuckery?

[@Sparten7F4]

No one knows, or knew. Everyone just ASSUMED that to be the case and moved on. But it was never concretely stated.@@The.Orange.Wizard

[@stepheneaton4978]

@@Sparten7F4 Does this mean Horus's trip through time during his vision quest is no longer canon?

[@Sparten7F4]

UNknown and, for now, unkowable@@stepheneaton4978

[@davoodoo8042]

@@Sparten7F4 i always assumed that to be just vision by chaos given to him, but the answer was chaos knowledge about primarchs and their attempts to stop which caused geller field to eventually fail and scatter them.

[@Timasion]

The problem with Erda is that she's a late "update" to the lore. There is no real explanation to where she came from or what she's been doing. Her motivations are really inexplicable.

[@fabrikator-generalakhilley6896]

Tan, secretive, cloaked, magical, bright blue eyes... have we really not seen this somewhere else before? 🕯cackles with girly suspicions🕯

[@BM-wf9uf]

Thats basically it. And to be fair i think most of the perpetuals suffer from this problem.

[@CatroiOz]

@@BM-wf9uf Perpetuals were a mistake. I basically ignore them because all they do is add cringe and even more questions. 40k overall was more interesting when the answer to most questions was "we don't know dude, it's the apocalypse we have other shit to deal with"

[@BM-wf9uf]

@@CatroiOz Eh I don't have a problem with them. And I'd hardly call Vulkan, Malcador, John Grammaticus and Ollanius "cringe". They just needed to be fleshed out more. GW had to start moving the plot and explaining things because the setting was becoming stale and boring.

[@davoodoo8042]

@@BM-wf9uf and to do that they had to retcon well virtually entire origin story, then they introduced character which shouldnt exist and breaks the entire universe. You didnt even need to introduce cawl or retcon anything. Honestly, theres reason that among 40k rpg fans we just ignore everything past m41.999

[@NameIsDoc]

Erda was so swiftly kicked out of cannon it was hilarious. Everyone even Imperium haters all just collectively said no.

[@1MagicAndMayhem1]

Kind of is Canon though mate, sorry

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

I like her.

[@ПетрВрангель-т8п]

@@heitorpedrodegodoi5646 I despise her

[@tomgardner2253]

I liked Erebus getting rid of her

[@NameIsDoc]

@@1MagicAndMayhem1 in 40k it's very hard to determine what is cannon. Seriously games workshop doubles back so much they could save Japan's birthrate issues

[@Nyctophora]

Erda was a mistake swiftly written out again. I am sad that she got past the editors. Both male and female characters need to be well-written and, for the reasons you've outlined here, Erda is not that. If the intention was to simply "add more girls" then again, this was a failure. We have great examples like Tarasha Euten, Lotara Sarrin, and Golconda Pyke. They have depth, motivations, and traits of many kinds, like their male counterparts, and don't seem tacked on. Erda does not seem to have anything to say. It feels as if we are meant to think that she is great, because she has double-x chromosomes; none of the examples above would even think of trying that angle. They are great _and_ female. "Look a female character" is not by itself either a victory, a plot point or a characterisation. As a woman I am not flattered by the inclusion of Erda. It doesn't fill a previously unseen need. It's not even as if she is a heroic figure - as you point out, she ruins many, many lives. I had always assumed that the Emperor got 20 donor ova for his test tubes, which is one reason why the Primarchs all look different (except the twins). There was no lore gap where a single mother figure was needed. The development of the Primarchs without mothers (mostly) was always an interesting facet of the story. The Emperor's character was explored through his decisions, and this was a crucial one of them. Thank you for a well-reasoned answer to the "Erda Question".

[@W.H.138]

The thing is that there are actually a lot of irl people that's like her. Fixing evils with other evils, oftentimes greater than what they hoped to fix.

[@RedHierophant23]

I absolutely love Tarasha, she's such interesting character and a essential part of what makes Guilliman who he is today. The reason why Guilliman respects baseline humans at all, it's because his adoptive mother and father were both exceptional people. Erda doesn't even deserve to be compared to her, she somehow managed to be a worse parental figure than the Emperor. I do not believe she did the Scattering for the Primarchs' benefit at all. It seems she simply did that out of spite for the Emperor.

[@RedHierophant23]

The primary flaw lies in the implausibility of someone acquainted with Chaos leaving their children stranded on their doorstep while claiming it was for their benefit. This fundamental inconsistency undermines the functionality of Erda's character.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@RedHierophant23I find it funny most people like to go on about how bad the emperor was as a father while ignoring or even excusing erda’s actions when they are as you righty pointed out way worse then what the emperor had planed for his sons. And another thing to consider thanks to erda decision the emperor never got the chance to be a father to his sons because by the time he finds them all again they all fully grown and developed men with their own virtues and vices which big E didn’t have a hand in shaping.

[@RedHierophant23]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 Even if you completely disregard the whole Emperor situation. I think that having the Primarchs grow up near each other could've been incredibly beneficial to them. Besides that, she could've been there for them too, helping raise them properly. The Emperor, at his very worst, would've just been indifferent to them. If she believed this to be case, then staying by her children's side would've been a much better choice. This is the problem with Erda, the more you think about it, the more you can poke holes into her character. It is unbelievably bad.

[@Staccet]

Editor should have just said "If you are gonna write such a hollow character might as well say The Emperor just harvested egg cells from women with the most promising/desirable qualities for his project."

[@tdpuuhailee8222]

That makes alot more sense.

[@Aceshot-uu7yx]

The dude is 12 ft tall and the author seriously thought he couldn't pull and needed a "non romantic partner" to provide eggs for his project?

[@piotrd.4850]

More likely and in line with 40k: from woman readily available who seemed best fit but due to some frakery Emperor inflicted what he sought to avoid and she is reason for SOME of Primarch's fallacies.

[@KaoKacique]

Each primarch having a different biological mother could also give them ways to connect to humanity in a way that a perpetual like Erda never could

[@KaoKacique]

@@Aceshot-uu7yx And, if the story needed a romantic partner for the emperor, Jenetia Krole was right there. No need to introduce a character for that

[@TrenchCoatDingo]

Me mum was a tube! A tube on Mount fucking Everest! Mum-Everest

[@thattotalwarguy7911]

Thanks Kitten

[@balazsvarga1823]

Will Japan make an anime where the mountain turns into a girl? Everest chan will conquer Empy-kuns heart!

[@greendalf123]

I liked the idea of the Primarchs having a mother, adding a whole different level to their existence. But like you said, she came at the end of the series, didn't do much and died. It was pointless.

[@serronserron1320]

And they made her look stupid. They made her to be a worse parent than the Emperor. And for someone who's powerful and ancient she seemed to lack any common sense or wisdom. Seemingly manipulated by the ruinous powers when she should know to avoid their tricks better than most.

[@linhle8294]

I'm gonna be bloody honest, seeing how every Primarch bear a different Terran racial aspect like how Fulgrim looks pretty pale and the same white hair with Dorn, Jaghatai Khan looks noticeably Mongolian and how each Primarch possesses a different facial aspect, you would think the Emperor must have possessed multiple wives and probably the best amongst the vassal kingdoms under His command, they can just be human as well because strangely enough when 2 Perpertuals connected their genes together, only Vulkan inherented it for some reason, so should have just the Emperor and 20 of His concubines to do the Primarch project and they all died of old age. See, simple

[@stefankatsarov5806]

@@linhle8294 I second this idea

[@greendalf123]

@@linhle8294 I have some bad news for you. The Primarchs aren't all perfectly described. For example Khan is never described as Asian looking. In fact in a few of his official artworks he looks white (in others he looks Asian too). Vulkan is arguably only black due to Nocturne and the effect it has on Astartes biology. You can easily say all the Primarchs are just of mostly European stock and have it make sense with one man and his wife.

[@linhle8294]

@greendalf123 however every Primarch looks different from one to another, majority of the Primarch are also bald, a majority of them are blonde, black hair is on the second place with Magnus being the distinctive one but high chance the red hair is also the same with his pigment and turned red, the hair genes of the Primarch are all over the places. I knew Vulkan possesses charcoal pigment due to Nocturne environment that's why I didn't mention him, as well as Curse, Corvas, Magnus, Sanguinius, Mortarion and even Angron The Primarch are so distinctive from one another, everyone who has been playing the hobby before Erda introduction must have at one point thought that "Perhaps the Emperor was using the genes of multiple women and combined them genes with his"

[@DD8842]

Erda and Amara Astartes shouold have been one character. They have basically one story.

[@mrsamaritan6881]

That's part of the problem went they rectoned Astartes to be woman.

[@LordLambertius]

@@mrsamaritan6881 That wasn't a retcon. She was always a woman from when the character was first made. Are you good?

[@davoodoo8042]

@@LordLambertius i believe what he means is that entire point theres no female astartes is that male genetics are not compatible with women bodies. So how could she provide genetic basis for astartes...

[@LordLambertius]

@@davoodoo8042 They dont HAVE Amar Astartes genes as their base though. 99% of you people whinging about these things don't even know what you're talking about or have even read where the material comes from, and it shows.

[@davoodoo8042]

@@LordLambertius not amar, erda, and yes its pretty much clearly spelled her genes were used.

[@ishitrealbad3039]

>Agrees to the Astartes and Primarch project >Suddenly regret descision for no logical reason >Thinks Astartes will malfunction without their Primarchs >Scatters Primarchs across the galaxy so that they be raised on unhinged planets >Leaves Astartes without their primarchs for a long long time This truelly is a woman moment if i ever heard about one in fiction holy hell this is cursed. This is the equivellant of a mother telling the father of her children that their kids will become poor adults if they ever got raised without their father. So than she decides to leave the kids somewhere in the forest, so that it could be raised by beasts or wild men..... This makes Horus and Peter Turbo look more reasonable and logical.

[@thenecessaryevil2634]

And ironically most of the Loyalists among the traitor legions are the ones raised before their primarch was found.

[@wolflightning2331]

like mother like son?

[@doomguy9049]

Erda's biological clock was counting down with more urgency starting right around her 30 thousandth birthday, and the Emperor was her best available option when the baby rabies hit her. He wasn't Mr Right, just Mr Right Now.

[@randomcenturion7264]

In the GrimDarkness of the 41st Millennium still be holding us back.

[@cratoss.4772]

Who wrote her?

[@vinbingames]

Eras: I’m a good mother. *Yeets 20 of her kids through hell on a gamble on where here kids land* Big E: Just as planned.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

Let's see, she sent Konrad to a planet so consumed by crime that the government gave up, she sent the Lion to a planet filled with monstrous warp creatures, she sent Angron to a planet filled with techno barbarians and she sent Mortarion to a planet ruled by a race of tyrannical alien overlords who had poisoned half the world.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

Big E: "MALCADOR! KAREN TOOK THE KIDS!" Malcador: "What are you talking about sire?" Big E: "ERDA! SHE TOOK THE KIDS!" Malcador: "Oh, well I'm sure Valdor will be able to..." Big E: "SHE THREW THEM INTO A WARP RIFT!" Malcador: "SHE WHAT?!"

[@stepheneaton4978]

@@lordfrostwind3151 Am I wrong for hearing Malcador in an over the top bri'ish accent? "You wot mate?"

[@Franz0818]

*”In the 31st Millennium, there is only bad parenting.”*

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

@@stepheneaton4978 That's Malcadork OI!

[@williambowes-xt2sm]

So Erda is the Horus heresy equivalent of the emperor's bitter ex wife who lost the divorce case but decided to fuck over big E by taking the kids far far away? "You might get the house but I'm dropping these little brats in the woods!"

[@MountainMan-bz9lk]

You just described the situation perfectly

[@dziku2222]

GW writing is simply bad. Honestly, it's often more engaging and fascinating to hear people talking about lore than reading actual 40k books. Often, general ideas are good and interesting, but when you go to the down level, page to page, scene to scene narration, it's very lackluster. As fascinating as 40k universe is, as captivating concepts, factions and ideas are, when you actually read stories from the Black Library, most of it is dogcrap in terms of writing, when you need to actually write a concrete story set in the setting. How many stories about 1 space wolf conquering the planet and floating in space boarding chaos cruises did we have? Or stories where people on the ship bridge sip coffee and do smalltalks like if they were normal modern people, not imperial citizens? I'm not entirely blaming writers for it, 40k setting is very stiff and it's hard to make a compeling story in it, because things are repetetive and most characters/factions should not even interact with each other, blocking out some interesting possibilities and simple confrontation of ideas.

[@warior531]

Feels like a majority of readers just ignore the poorly written parts and instead just go with their own headcanon. Generally this works fine, but the amount of mental gymnastics I've had to do to make the later Horus Heresy books even readable is quite alarming.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@warior531if you are at that point then I genuinely advise you to just stop and write your own fanfic of the heresy for your own pleasure rather then just slogging through book by book just find to the small gems in the dirt it not worth man.

[@John-kc4cg]

The biggest problem GW has is not having an editor in chief to keep lore and characters consistent. At this point there are basically three perturabos and we have no idea if astartes cooling systems are silent, hum, or are as loud as standing next to a tank and will "make human teeth itch" by being too close.

[@logangant7732]

Ya i kinda agree, just finished infinite and the divine (started with due to its reviews) overall book was alright nothing really happens except thing that makes plot go forward is gets passed back and forth arbitrarily and makes the book end with a heckin epic marvel movie fight. TLDR: people shilled for infinite and divine

[@jarvee9407]

I listen to some of the stories and not only the authors constantly talk about one action not over a page long explanation, instead of using one word and trusting the reader or listener to interpret it, but it is also insanely inconsitent. I dont get how there are so many book about siege of Terra... like even in books like Lord of the Rings the sieges are barely described and are just a background. On top of that most events are the same, Deux ex machina that was not set up, last stand, combination of both. There is really not much else.

[@funbro99]

This isnt about erda tbh. This is about the ruination of big E for all his so called projects gets delegated into either being a group project, women moment or just finding it before instead of creating it. Nvm that she fucking further ruin characters like mortarion whose whole aspect is hating their father. She was a pointless add-on if not entirely a hostile element to the lore continuity.

[@franconnorton7087]

That crap is why I stopped reading the HH. It became bloated with one off bad characters with stupid motivations. It also made the emperor just idiotic for no reason, he did nothing except fuck up everyone elses work. It just ruined the story which should have remained as unclear legend, myth and garbled history.

[@qwefg3]

Pre-retcon - chaos gods realized it would be an issue fighting twelve well adjusted demi gods and threw them through the warp. Everyone blames chaos for the mess today. After retcon. Erda throws a fit and dooms her children by throwing them blindly through the warp. Yes... She is half the reason why galaxy is totally messed up. I can see why the inquisition did their best to delete her name from history. The chaos gods were probably laughing at victory was tossed right on a silver platter for them.

[@orrorsaness5942]

Amen 😅

[@konstantin3374]

One woman turned out to be as devastating as entirety of Chaos...

[@12halo3]

@@konstantin3374 The other half is the emperor.

[@Maskof7eyes2]

Tzeech: "just as planned!" seriously though having a woman moment and throwing your sons into literal hell while hoping for the best is the most regressive rout the cannon has taken since the 12 consecutive failures of abbadon the armless followed by him ramming a blackstone fortress into a planet while crying "nuh uh you didnt win! you didnt win!

[@Sorain1]

I could see Tzeench being pissed that all the scheming meant nothing, while the other three are laughing manically.

[@donstrigger9930]

I love how Erda's actions in the scattering of the primarchs were the epitome of a woman moment and how the author didn't even realize it at the time lmao.

[@shadowjack239]

Oh, I'm pretty sure he did.

[@Xcyper33]

I don't think so. The most typical woman thing would've been to love her babies then Chaos slowly and subtly break her mind which led to her scattering the Primarchs

[@thecommentguy9380]

@@Xcyper33except she's a perpetual, and is a psyker on the same level of the emperor and malcador chaos cant just corrupt her

[@guilhermeferrari4773]

​​Not even close, Emperor was a abomination, in another level of power, even for psyckers and other perpetuals, even for the Chaos gods, calling him the "Anathema" @@thecommentguy9380

[@101Mant]

"woman moment"? The 40k fandom needs less incels.

[@lowkeyarki7091]

what's most frustrating about Erda is how easily fixable it could have been, imagine if the four chaos gods simply gave her glimpses of the horus heresy, just enough to make her misunderstand that them being with the emperor resulted in the downfall of mankind, or better yet actually write more about her so that we can symphatize with her wanting to be a parent then gave her those visions and made her think that her sons must never meet each other or they'll kill each other under the emperors orders.

[@fin1493]

The only good thing about GW messing with it's 40k lore is that it has created a new generation content creators who wish to keep the record straight and protect what is uniquely good about 40k.

[@zagreus5773]

Companies should loose intellectual property after a few decades, like it was in the past. Then everyone could legally create original 40k content and lore, and simply the most popular one would become "canon".

[@UponGiantsShoulders]

@@zagreus5773 That sounds like some commie bs to me..

[@zagreus5773]

@@UponGiantsShoulders It isn't. But let's instead serve our company overlords, just to be sure we're not.

[@robertarmstrong3939]

@@UponGiantsShoulders me when Chewbacca eat

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

@@UponGiantsShoulders This is what companies and US gov want you to believe.

[@noahlanders7029]

Here is my greatest problem with Erda. Her two actions of actual importance are neither important nor actually hers. The idea that the Primarchs would have a genetic mother as well as a father is intriguing, but no attempt before or after is made to portray this as relevant. Many of the Primarchs despise their father for a variety of reasons yet none of them feel anything for their mother. No abandonment issues, no hatred for her part in their dispersal, nothing. She is a non entity shoe-horned in at the eleventh hour to do something we all already know was and “in the context of the story” must be done. The scattering of the Primarchs had to occur in the Horus Heresy. Erda doing it feels less like a character fulfilling her arc and more of a plot device doing its job. Had she been corrupted, been shown realizing the callous cruelty of the Emperor over time, stated that the Primarchs would be better off scattered then with Him, I would have cared. As it is, she, essentially, does nothing. Nothing new, nothing of note, nothing that has not already existed within the lore in a simpler and more believable format. She shouldn’t exist because she adds nothing and does nothing and is nothing

[@lordfrostwind3151]

Her being corrupted and betraying the Emperor would actually go a long way to explain the ridiculous trust issues he had about the Webway Project with the Primarchs. Gotta love good old missed potential.

[@springfaux6991]

I always thought that the emperor pulled a Zeus and slept with multiple women that gave birth to the primarchs then the emperor scattered them with their mothers

[@theprelate4219]

At least Erebus did one thing right.

[@scrotusmaximus3043]

Lol 👍

[@RedHierophant23]

I'm almost glad she's dead and we can all put this shitshow behind us. lmao

[@Eldeecue]

Her mocking Erebus was one of the few things that made me like her, though. "I am Destiny's Hand!" "Did you give yourself this name? Devil-boy?"

[@memesofwarhemmer7076]

@@Eldeecueerebus: yes 😎 now goodbye Erda: reeeeeeee

[@okloshbrokla8154]

Im glad the only major woman in the lore is dead holy shit you are depraved

[@colinmorgan2511]

No Roboute Gulliman only has 1 mother, Tarasha Euten the one and ONLY Gullimum.

[@Nousagi0619]

Without a real useful reason to be created, they really ignored other better characters just because... who knows, and even Erebus becomes likeable at her side.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

Erebus did one good deed in his life. So you know one step ahead of Kor Phaeron, Goge Vandire and Eldrad.

[@serronserron1320]

Erebus is working for the greater good of the series and is always been the most likable character out of all of them.

[@Brandon-ff1yo]

@@lordfrostwind3151 didn`t Eldrad try to warn the imperium about the heresy but he tried warning mostly corrupted Fulgrim and ended up getting attacked for his trouble? which now that I think about it, its kind of weird he could see the heresy but not that fulgrim was drenched with his race`s mortal enemy`s warp juice.

[@lordfrostwind3151]

@Brandon-ff1yo you know that is kinda hilarious now that I think about it, didn't notice Fulgrim was holding Sexy Frostmourne until he about gets soul gutted by it and it wasn't exactly a subtle Daemon. I was just making fun his general dickishness and inability to spot out whatever important crap he's supposed to warn about until it's too late. Eldar diplomacy at its finest.

[@linhle8294]

I said this before and I said it again: The Scattering of Primarch done by Erda is the most useless retconned EVEN WHEN COMPARED to a Mechanicus Magos easily introduced a range of countless marines and armouries, but this is about Erda so I will set it back a bit To my opinion, the Scattering caused by the 4 Chaos Gods, decided to stop their Game for a minute and accepted to make a plan to throttle Big E Primarch Project is much much more powerful, mysterious and interesting than a woman throwing tantrum at Big E and for some reason thought what she did was correct. Thank ALL the 40k Gods for giving Erebus a character redemption arc

[@unnamed1613]

The weird thing is that in the book "The first heretic", it is hinted that Argel Tal, through a massive amout of Warp-fuckery, was the one responsible for the obduction of the Primarchs. In the book, a powerfull demon who was representing all 4 Chaosgods, send Argel Tal and his men into the eye of terror and ordered him to deactivate the Gellar field. After a bit of hesitation they turned it off and the demon transported them back in time to the Emperors secrete lab in the Himalayas. None of the scientists noticed them in the room which led Argel Tal to believe it´s an illusion, but the demon told them not to interact with anything or else "he" (probably the Emperor) will notice their presence there and intervene. After telling the soon-to-be Gal Vorbak how the Emperor betrayed the Gods, the demon enraged Argel Tal enough for him to cut through the pipelines, which fueled the Gellarfield protecting the Lab from the gods and his dual blades shattered while the field generator exploded. A moment later he sees visions of the Incubators crashing on the Primarchs respective Homeworlds before he found himslef back on his ship with his shattered swords lying infront of him, hinting that it wasn´t just an illusion.

[@brll5733]

"I worry about my kids...let's yeet them into literal hell!"

[@jamesthelamenter5464]

Erda was simply a writer's pet and was a retcon... Worst of all she was a modern "strong independent women" type that is used as a mark of a bad written story/character. TLDR the black library writer's got high of their own farts and thought that they could piss the fans.

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

Wel she is a perpetual and "Mother" to the Primarchs she is by definition a strong womam, the problem is she suffered so much from bad writing.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

I'm gonna go out there and say that Erda was just a pointless retcon added because GW and whatever writer first introduced her wanted to pander to modern day feminist crap. The Heresy already established that it was the Chaos gods, with the help of Argel Tal, that scattered the Primarchs, so Erda just isn't needed.

[@tdpuuhailee8222]

Are they next going to say "tHe EmPeRoR iS fEmAlE"

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

@@tdpuuhailee8222 I hope not!

[@davoodoo8042]

Its not even that, after 2016 and trump memes they decided to ruin the emperor, thats why they had to retcon erda in.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

@@davoodoo8042 Honestly that makes a whole lot of sense... I should've known it would come back to TDS....

[@Demineoz]

Ah yes dan abnett is a feminist panderer next to chris wraight and their feminist agenda, jesus christ.

[@fvardona]

I do not dislike Erda as a character, I actually like the fact that she is present in such moments and I find her "mom's instinct" kicking in something cool since it is a cool counterbalance to the cold and tactical mind of the Emperor, however, I do think that she was badly written and many of the flaws you pointed it out for me can be explained by simple lack of a clear aim for this characters existence. It would be far cooler if she was in fact influenced by chaos to do what she had done, or actually she started to foresee something that the Emp seems to not have seen or is choosing to blatantly ignore. She then decides to pursue changing this possible outcome due to this upcoming catastrophe, this could set a lot of drama and theories without sounding dumb or without reason, and also explain why even though she feels like their mother still decided to yeet than into the warp.

[@Lion-D.-Garp]

The "Primarchs Mother" is a Karen throwing a tantrum

[@ditmarvanbelle1061]

Honestly, with offspring such as Perturabo, Angron and Kurze that makes a compelling case.

[@Aceshot-uu7yx]

Dorn, Alpharius(omegan), Corax and Fulgrim certainly act like the children of a Karen.

[@jeremygriffin620]

This has the feel of a character introduced in a filler episode of a television show. They appear and disappear in a single episode, their actions have no bearing on the ongoing story, and changes little to nothing about the story before.

[@guilherme5094]

Erda/Amara are both characters retroactively inserted into the story (a stupid practice that rarely works). And let's be honest Big E would never forgive Erda's betrayal. Primarchs do not have biological mothers, only egg donors.

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

An egg donors is technically a biological mother, you could say they dont have a adoptive or presnt mother.

[@balazsvarga1823]

They could have just been cloned in a tank. They were clone sons. It is like Star Wars suddenly saying that Padme had to go to Kamino... wait I shouldn't give Disney ideas.

[@KaoKacique]

Amara still kinda fits conceptually, her death would explain why they never made more Primarchs, but Erda is not redeemable Egg Donors could be way more interesting than Erda. Them rejecting or accepting the primarchs as sons could be an interesting dynamic

[@TheUncivilizedNation]

The problem with Erda is the fact that she never died until the Horus Heresy. Meaning she was present for the return of all her sons and did nothing to aid those who needed it. She could’ve helped with Konrad’s insanity by guiding him through visions into the future. Explained to Lorgar the true nature of a Perpetual Psyker so he wouldn’t call the Emperor a god and embrace the Imperial Truth. Guide Magnus in his pursuit of knowledge. And so much more. All of the Primarch’s problems (except 2,11, and 12) could’ve been lessened if not dealt with

[@Jadefox32]

She's mentioned in one book and to my knowledge never mentioned again (meaning the reaction to her was so bad GW ignored her afterwards)

[@ZeWrAtH]

Same with Dan Abnett's decision to making the Alpha Legion Primarch a twin. GW has basically quietly ignored that part forever now.

[@calumdeighton]

When Erda was first hinted at I knew they were going to screw something up with her (GW/writers). But when her full story was reavled. I realised I hadn't full appreciated how much of a screw up they could have made. Erda & Astarte have done a huge amount of damage to 30 & by extension 40k. They've taken away the achievements of the Emperor, or Neoth as he's known. And they rob the Chaos powers or some of their involvement as well. Their great plan to stop the Emperor hinging on the stupid actions of a female. The rest is just childs play for them. Erda can't be redeemed. None of what she did help or was motherly either. As one of the Eighth. I know the suffering of my Primarch too well. And I can confidently say. We were better without him. His return poisoned snd corrupted the Legion irrevocably.

[@igooog]

Also giving the emperor a name at all was such a massive mistake. At the very least they should have made it a recognizable name (which, granted Dan kinda does in End and the Death 1) but it would've been far better to keep names out of the character. Especially because of Dan's nonsensical tomshittery in Prospero Burns with "names"

[@Joseph-mw2rl]

Even the smartest and most powerful woman like erda can't avoid a "Women ☕" moment. It's honestly pretty hilarious.

[@WraithOfMan]

It is amusing that every feminist attempt to create a "Strong Independent Badass" results in an unlikeable character who ends up basically being a villain... - Write what you know, I guess! 😄

[@grimnir8872]

Astarte: tragic concern as a mortal is played as a toolby a god-like being. Erda: Angry perpetual Karen.

[@amphiptered.5355]

I saw someone mention this character. I had no idea who the hell she was and now I see why I had no idea who she was. She was an unneeded addition. There was no mention, nor hint of her before. So she feels like a last minute addition. They should have just merged her character with Amar Astarte. Then have her play a part in the creation of the thunder warriors. Have her bond with them and attempt to cure/stabilize them. Then she starts viewing them as her children vs tools. Have her get into arguments with the emperor because of them when he mentions getting rid of them to show the shift in her stance on his plans. Have him get rid of them because he has no time for coddling, he is on a tight schedule and resources are limited. Let that act as the first fracture in her mind. Maybe even double since she takes on the role of Amar, she would also come to view the Astartes as her children. So it was her children killing her children. Then let one of the gods of chaos whisper to her, voicing her fears and giving her visions of her kids dying by Emp's hand or each other. (It was stated that once the war is over he was going to get rid of the primarchs that couldn't adjust to peaceful life.) Her mind further falling into despair and madness with every passing day. Have her approach Emps and attempt to voice her concerns. She did adore him once, so she has to give him at least one chance. But he is too busy with his plan to hear her. His eyes too focused on the far future, on the coming darkness and the golden era he is aiming for. Thus he neglects the present, neglects the people in front of him. And fails to read her mind or see the not so distant future where she leaves with the kids. Then have her run away with the primarchs. (Because yeeting them into oblivion makes little sense, unless her goal was killing them). Emps or one of his people catch her and they have a scuffle and while they are distracted have chaos come in and scatter primarchs. That way we can still keep a bit of the old lore. And by the end of it she would be either dead by emps or imprisoned and crazy at the loss of her kids. And because she goes nuts, people no longer speak of her. She is less than a shadow of her former self. Barely recognizable. It shames them to remember her. Might even be fun if she mistakes Erubus for one of her son(primarchs), begging for forgiveness when he kills her. Her fall isn't a bad idea as it shows that even the strongest can fall for chaos' manipulations. All it takes is a moment and single lapse and you're done. Reinforces why Emp's work is so important. Would this have been better? Probably not. She'd still be a 0 impact character. GW could have just made chaos corrupted Thunder Warriors scatter the primarchs to spite their father for killing their brothers. So she doesn't really need to exist. She doesn't show much motherly affection for them either. And I know motherly affection as my own mother was willing to get hit by a bus to save me. Retcons are kinda annoying. Seriously, you leave for a while and come back and everything is a mess. What has been retconned? What is still canon? IDK. It makes it really hard to care about lore, when it is changed so frequently. But I have to disagree with one of your points, the proto-Astartes worked fine without a Primarch. Leetus is just faffing about without issues. So it is understandable that she might think the next batch will be fine without the Primarchs too.

[@Ultra04channel]

I think Erda could've been interesting, and could have shown how uncaring the Emperor is, perhaps even reflecting back to the dreaded Daemonculaba. With how the emperor treats other people, when I first heard about her, I assumed she was going to be a "lover" that was tricked, and used as nothing more than a natural incubator for the primarchs. As disgusting of a concept as that is, it would've shown how, once again, the emperor isn't a "good guy" in the slightest. Instead we get Karen taking the kids.

[@fionn2220]

I think what really sank her character was Abnett's unwillingness to confirm that the Heresy or even the state of the ascension of the Emperor was predicated and planned in advance (even as a "best worst" outcome type deal) rather than just leaving it up to interpretation and guesswork. If Erda had unapologetically and bluntly dropped the cold fact that The Emperors intent was to manipulate events and his sons relationships so that the redundant ones fell to chaos and his best tools stayed loyal her decision to throw his proverbial cards up into the air and ruin his plans wouldve made infinitely more sense. She could have been despondent and despairing that despite her best efforts, exactly what she tried to prevent came to pass anyways or even torn apart by guilt and shame at the idea that in fact shes the one responsible for it the end. Trying to prevent a future that is in the end caused exclusively by your efforts to stop it is the exact same arc that her son Horus goes through. Attempting to defy a safe but suffocating organized nightmare by embracing the terrifying and dangerous freedom of chance and unrestrained will is the bedrock moral dilemma of warhammer 40k. The thematic relevance and narrative parallels write themselves. We could have got a meaningful, profound criticism of at once the emperors philosophy and the traitors motivations in her actions and conflict over them, instead we get an arrogant farce that only serves to prompt endless "haha, woman moment! based big E betrayed by a karen!" spam, its such a heartbreaking waste.

[@phaodaimotnguoi-1manfortress]

"Karen took the kids, mal" 😭

[@geneawisea2708]

You’re goddamn right she does and for the record GW has shit all over The Emperor for the last couple of years and it’s Reprehensible.

[@Nate-the-Rake]

Ollanius Persson was also retconned to be the oldest and first Perpetual, One part of his retconned backstory that I found sort of funny is that he was the Emperors first Warmaster/General until the Emperor wanted to keep a bunch of chaos junk found in Mongolia but Ollanius Persson instead shanked the Emperor and went his separate way.

[@captainwaffles6576]

They had a mother? I thought the Emperor just kind of clone himself in 26 different ways.

[@ZeWrAtH]

He did. This is just the vomit of Dan Abnett that can be ignored safely. I'm astonished he made a worse character than John Grammaticus.

[@Alamandorious]

Did they actually change the established lore _again_ ? What next, she was the actual leader and The Emperor was just a figurehead?

[@paulusillyriusiudathaddaio2530]

Erda has almost as much of a wasted potential as Fulgrim, but in a different way

[@dimitriosdrossidis9633]

The frustrating thing with Erda is that she is written with wasted potential. Like she could be an awesome character, she could be a great foil to the emperor and a greater character in the lore and for understanding the history of the setting. Arguably there still is the possibility of exploring the idea or making her somewhat justified in her decision, but all we get, is just that the primarchs had a mother who gave birth to them and then she died, without anyone ever mentioning her again! And the most frustrating part is, even though there probably is a way for her to get actually mentioned in a story or that we actually learn more about her that will probably be never really explored, because all GW cared about was her scattering the children! She could have been more and again can still be retroactively made better, but all we get is a character that's as quickly out of the story, as she gets in the story and that's it!

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

There no saving this idea, it one of those things that should have been introduce very early on in the series probably in the first book. And even if it could be saved at this point fans will always remember erda as the female Emperor wannabe who had a woman moment which doomed the imperium to the State it is now in the present timeline.

[@dimitriosdrossidis9633]

@@thesmilinggun-knight9646 agree to disagree on the last point. Also unrelated, but happy new year!

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

@@dimitriosdrossidis9633 but it true though 😆 I mean just think about for a second if erda didn’t scatter the primarchs lorgar would never have become the religiously obsessed choirboy that he become and would have never met Erebus the man who almost single-handedly facilitated the heresy. anywho happy new year 🥳 to you as well.

[@jonnysilia5740]

GW had a problem where if they introduced someone like Erda but she was basically a trivia bullet point, "hey the emperor also used the DNA of this woman to make the Primarchs and she also helped a little because she's a scientist... yep!" Then feminists would get mad that she did nothing, and GW, being GW, made her do a thing, a far worst thing then doing absolutely nothing but watch the Chaos gods shotgun the Primarchs across the galaxy, no let's make her be the progenitor of EVERYTHING that went wrong for the Imperium! how progressive! Erda's entire conception stinks of one of those things you see someone do as they think it's what their "winning" side wants, when in reality it shows how little they understand their own cause they "fight" for.

[@bobskywalker2707]

I genuinely can’t see erda being a worthwhile character

[@Kharmazov]

I mean what did You expect from usual Abnet's "world building" antics when given no restrain?? No to mention stretching the last book in to 3 volumes was simply absurd and the two first are already padded to the brim with superfluous content. She is just another pointless character in the perpetuals and Alpha Legion arc that should have never been implemented in the first place to begin with.

[@Golnax]

Wait hold on, is this a new thing? I've never heard of Erda before, I thought the primarchs were all test tube babies. They really tried to give them a mother?

[@FercPolo]

The Horus Heresy being turned from a shadowy myth into just a series of books was the worst decision. But hey, they sold a lot of books I guess.

[@DominicMaez]

Love how she was initially introduced but the more I grew to know the more I grew to hate her.

[@davoodoo8042]

Funniest thing with emperor was that he was too permissive, he trusted primarchs too much and was too lenient with punishments. if guilliman was once in his life told that hes an idiot maybe he wouldnt push for codex astartes or at least listen when half of his remaining brothers told him its a stupid idea and wouldnt break the biggest military force imperium had. If he bombarded prospero to oblivion due to people there being open rogue psykers who frequently mutated and gaslighted magnus into believing psychic powers have nothing to do with mutations and then kept close watch on magnus he wouldnt fall to chaos. Hell even after everything he sent russ to bring him back not to destroy that place till horus changed orders. If he just let angron die not only his legion would be more effective, its unlikely they would rebel. If he just stripped lorgar of command or just killed him due to flagrant disregard of direct orders entire horus heresy would be unlikely to happen. Entire point of introducing erda and astarte is to diminish emperor.

[@Nobody32990]

Magnus falling was due to E not telling him about his little pet project and to not be disturbed, not population of Prospero.

[@davoodoo8042]

@@Nobody32990 no it was due to population of prsopero, emps told him all about warp and chaos gods, told him how people get corrupted. Magnus just refused to believe voice in his head could be malignant and never figured out that his legion is mutating because theyre using psychic powers despite seeing that they mutate right after they use them, all because he was told growing on prospero that these powers are not something to be afraid of and that you should study them. If not for prospero he wouldnt be raised to reach for psychic as first answer to everything.

[@shadowlord1418]

angron should of either been helped or left. Not kidnapped

[@CynicalOldDwarf]

I had no idea these characters existed, but I see they were only added a few years ago so no wonder. And further to that they were added along with the Belisarius "I've been conveniently stashing gene seed all this time, oh and here's Space Marine 2.0" Cawl explains why they're so terrible. God, never thought I'd miss the days with the lore was basically stagnant and not progressing.

[@brokenhalo2001]

when it was stagnant it wa fine never understood why it needed pushed along so much. Little nudges here and there fine but overall was it not just here is the shitty time period we are in have fun, the sandbox is so large big and small shit can be happening all over at any one time. Have fun.

[@vit968]

The Erda concept can be interesting. There's actually a fanfic out there that makes her a compelling character.

[@wiggy5209]

The amount of times Disney thinks they are writing a competent and loving woman figure and end up creating some of the most useless and twisted creations of all is astonishing

[@brettroseman2885]

Tarasha Euten, Roboute Guilliman's adoptive mom was pretty cool

[@MakkenziKreiga]

The galaxy burned and uncountable humans died because women were insecure and paranoid? 10/10 GW. Tehn outta tehn.

[@CharlotteV3D]

I am totally in synch with you. The more you try to make sense of what she does and the more it becomes completely illogical. I didn't mind the idea of a mother that helped design the Primarchs, brought genetic material etc. BUT, like for anything else when it comes to storylines, you need to write it well and be smart about it. Don't fill the gaps of the lore just for filling them, it is unnecessary and hurts the story. And it's not like if it was crucial for us to know. Sometimes we're better off with just the mystery.

[@weareharbinger914]

Its always difficult to make stuff happen well after the fact, but introducing a new uber powerful character about ten thousand years too late and then kill them off was the biggest wtf moment I'd seen since The Emperor just ignoring Angron's loyalty to his people and letting them all die while he just teleported Angron to him. Hell the idea that he somehow couldn't do it all over again when he made the Custodes and it was all his idea to begin with is asinine. But they retconned Emps a lot. No idea why they wanted to nerf him when he's already stuck on the Golden Throne. Basically they introduced an uber powerful woman who fucked everything up and decided never to bother trying to fix it. Because if she did, trying to find the Primachs herself or something, it would retcon at least a few of their backstories(limited as some of them are).

[@jamesthelamenter5464]

The more recent years GW and the writers seem not to give a damn of the lore of the setting and most importantly putting political nonsense in the universe. This is just another example of the flanderization of the universe to appease certain political extremists and the mythological "modern audience".

[@WraithOfMan]

It's very simple: The destructive insertion of these Strong Independent Female characters into the narrative is due to the submission of GW to Current Year politics well outside of the lore, and nothing more - The Emperor being the creator of the Primarchs and the Space Marines is "problematic", and so it has to be retconned that in fact two women who actually knew better were behind this all along...

[@heitorpedrodegodoi5646]

Men welcome to GW and Warhammer 40K were lore get retconned every time.

[@alienstar2088]

It would've been nice if Erda was manipulated by the Emperor as an emotional attachment to the Primarchs in order to sway them from not turning against the Imperium. I think the Emperor would've understood that though he created the Primarchs for controlling the Legions on his behalf, treating them as tools would ultimately cause them to turn against him , especially if they were yeeted to other worlds where they might've understood the concept of family and love. Using Erda to keep the Primarchs emotionally attached to her and thus unable to raise a hand against the Emperor without putting her in harms way would've been a fantastic plan, a plan that could've gone wrong when Erda became too attached to the Primarchs. Not wanting to see the Primarchs used and possibly killed by the Emperor, like two of her sons already, Erda could've been the root cause as to why Horus ultimately chose to go against the Emperor and lead his brothers into Chaos. Whilst Chaos is debaucherous and possibly straight up evil, Erda's attachment with her sons and growing hatred for the cold hearted Emperor would've accepted the influence over Chaos as a better thing for her sons over the Emperor. I think Erda would've worked better as a character who was initially manipulated into stabilizing the emotions of the Primarchs, ultimately becoming too attached to them, so much so that she would willingly let the galaxy burn if it meant their freedom and an end to the danger the Emperor posed to them. As for why the Primarchs were yeeted through the galaxy... idk Tzeentch did it - dude's insane enough to do that for legit no fucking reason anyways.

[@BaelPenrose]

See the problem with that is that it’s an excellent idea GW should have thought of.

[@alienstar2088]

​@@BaelPenrose I'd be happy to come up with concepts at GW's behest lol

[@emikke]

Two thoughts. First think about the character of the Amazonian Queen Hippolyta who married Theseus. But when Theseus set her aside to marry another woman, she murdered Theseus' children with her. Hippolyta is deliberately inhuman and an anti-woman in the story. As Amazonians in Greek myth are something similar to a monster. Second, read Dune if you want to understand the Emperor and his ability to predict the future. I think that Paul is the most like the Emperor before he becomes the God-Emperor, and the God-Emperor Leto II is the most like the God-Emperor post assention. Frank Herbert does a good job at showing the limits of foresight, as well as the imperative of furfilling prophecy instead of fighting it to ensure the survival of Man. The emperor protects

[@pyerack]

Erda wouldn't be so bad if only her plan wasn't so stupid or she at least had been manipulated into doing so. You could still make the character and story-line work, but not as it currently stands.

[@AdeptKing]

I remember a word bearer or someone actually pointed out that it was her fault Angron and other primarchs ended up the way they did and she just hand waived it away.

[@haraldbredsdorff2699]

As far as I can tell, she was introduced to appeal to female players, the classical "woman can do it to" narrative, to make her compete with the Emperor. But as they told her story, she basically became the Eve that gave Adam the apple, dooming humanity. If she had not helped Chaos, the Emperors plan could have worked, and she created the dark 40K rather than what could be a better alernative. Making her the major villain, who's pride doomed humanity. I honestly, thing GW should just remove her from the lore again. Currently, she is just a perfect example of "woman ruins everything", that is not true, but the current lore claim it.

[@lonl123]

I just finished all the siege of terra books a few days ago....I guess I'm in the minority as I didn't have an issue with Erda, the one that really irritates me is John Grammaticus. And of course, he's the only one of all the characters who has an American accent....lol. Also, I wasn't up on the existing lore about the scattering before I started the books, so for me it was the first explanation of what the scattering was all about...so for me it didn't cause any issues. Her character arc was very limited though...I do agree that it would of been better if they could have fleshed her out some more. Could of been really good if they fleshed out the back story like her relationship with Big E etc.

[@CommanderX1125]

Sadly, they could have "fixed" most of the issues with the idiocy on Erda's part by simply giving precognition like many of the Primarchs. Have it to where she bases most of her stuff on said precognition, and make it to where it's super accurate pretty much all the time and so she just naturally goes with it. Then, at the 11th hour, have all four chaos gods unite and show her a vision of the future that Big E will create, show her the legions fighting each other, show her the worlds being purged, show her all the insanity, the darkness, the suffering without end or reason. Then, through the united power of the dark gods show Big E ordering the death of the two legions, and asking Magnimagic to purge his children the space marines. Just bits and pieces that we know to be a fact in the future, but missing the context of why those things happened. Then, overwhelmed with guilt and anger at herself, her husband Big E, and the pain she thinks they will bring about because of their perceived misguided efforts to unite humanity, she yeets her kids into the void using her psyker abilities to try and scatter them with the hope that at least a few will be safe from her, and her husband. She then realizes what she has done as Big E finally breaks the cursed visions of the dark gods, their laughter echoing in the lab she is in, and they reveal the truth. That none of those horrible things would have been possible had she simply ignored them. They played the long con of giving her visions knowing that if they made her powerful, made her have foresight to rival even Kairos, she would be drawn to the side of Big E, and then they could use that to break his project he would work on. In a fit of terror and sorrow for what she did, she throws herself unprotected at all into the warp to be destroyed, as she can't look at her husband, and she'll never be forgiven by her children for what she did. As a result of all of this, Big E orders Malcador to purge all records of his with so that he alone can take the blame for not being strong enough to protect her from what he sought to war against. Done.

[@J.EXE-1]

This, but instead of him taking the blame, just have her crime be so great that she is DAMNATIO MEMORIAE. Her crime is so great that she is to be forgotten and never spoken of

[@jacklang3314]

So basically what they did to Horus on Davin but an even bigger long-con.

[@CommanderX1125]

@@jacklang3314 Easy way to sell that would to make Erda the actual mother of Horus and Big E. It would even go far to explain why he loved Horus more then he loved Sangui or Magnimagic who both shared his psyker abilities more then Horus ever seemed to. Lazy? Perhaps a bit, but I'm just some rando spitballing ideas off the top of my head in KZbin comments, these people got paid.

[@ScottAT]

There are some characters they ruined for no reason whatsoever- Erda being one of the more major botches on GW’s part.

[@SanguiniustheGreatAngel]

It was better when the scattering was a mystery. Weather by the Word Bearers time travel or Horus discovery of the truth.

[@jamiearmstrong3487]

Coincidently, just re-reading Erda and John. She was shoehorned in, deprives the mystery and insults multiple characters by act and association. Argel and the lads, side-lined. Angron was mutilated. Sanguinius seemingly mutated. Konrad became unhinged, etc. If she was just "Yes, I knew Big E and Oll," that would be one thing.

[@Brofisticus]

Nailed it. Imagine making a character so detestable that rooting for Erebus feels like the right thing to do. Dan Abnett is one of those coin toss authors. Sometimes, you get Eisenhorn or Gaunt's Ghosts. Sometimes, you get the Ultramarines movie. The Heresy series contains so many contemptable retcons, acknowledging any of it as canon would be... well... heresy.

[@chainsawsubtlety9828]

"Let's have a discussion." Like we're reasonable people, or something. Dude, we're 40K fans. We're a lot of things... Reasonable isn't one of them.

[@blitzkrieg1941]

Erebus did nothing wrong

[@Romuluz369]

TLDR, warhammer is grimdark bc karen took the kids

[@ricijs2000]

an Ultramar secretary and a random Fenrisian wolf was a better mother then some OP perpetual side chick

[@dodoorgasm7218]

They could salvage it by combining both Erda and the chaos gods in to one story. For example they manipulated her motherly nature to scatter the primarchs. Yes she knew about chaos but we’re talking a bigger step of the grand plan here all the chaos gods would be collaborating to some capacity to ensure this.

[@DracoMaverick]

Cool idea to have the Primarchs a mom Very bad execution where she ends up being a total problem causer.

[@anderelamaro3815]

As far as i know, Erda was an attempt to turn 40k into AOS. Supposedly, Erda was created to with that purpose in mind. However, GW killed her, this killing any attempt to turn 40k into age of shitmat

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

I feel like 40k is heading that Direction anyway because as the setting stands as of now we have two loyal sons of the emperor returned the imperium has better Technology and better space marines, despite the fact that the Galaxy split in two 40k doesn’t feel grim dark anymore I don’t get the impression that humanity is on the verge of annihilation.

[@Sproket911]

Okay so, I initially agreed with this until I read Warhawk, where Erebus shows up and lays out how she was unknowingly doing the will of the chaos gods. And that she was blinded by a fear of the emperors plans would accidentally destroy humanity (much in the same way Horus saw visions of 40k and figured it was what the Emperor wanted). She scattered them as an act of desperation, but ultimately was just being manipulated by the chaos gods. To me this explanation fits perfectly well, and I think isn’t a ret-con since from interviews we know that the whole siege of Terra series and plot points were mapped out before it was released. Additionally I think it’s a suitable explanation because Erda has the power to scatter the Primarchs she serves as a perfectly serviceable tool for the chaos gods. I also think that we should hold her to a consistent standard with other important characters who were corrupted by Chaos like Horus, the other traitor Primarchs and a few of the perpetuals who fell to chaos. Is she a fool for doing this? Only as much as Horus is for disagreeing with the emperors vision. I’m open to being wrong about this though, but if you think I am please cite some in lore sources.

[@BouncingTribbles]

I hit like just because of the title. This level of retconning was really frustrating to me, especially because the narrative was so clumsy. I also just despise the perpetuals, at least the way they've been used. Erda came out of nowhere and read as a self insert to me. Great video, you included a lot of details I appreciated.

[@LuciaFinstra]

Erda and Astarte should just be decanonized completely - the old lore is more than sufficient without them. At the very least make Erda be corrupted by chaos to justify her actions. And eject Astarte out of the canon. I find it distasteful both of these characters are at the end of the day further jabs at the character of the Emperor, whom GW seem hell-bent on diminishing at every turn. Are they trying to compensate for some perceived RL outrage? Or are they genuinely convinced that bringing the Emperor low is the best way of progressing the imperium's narrative?

[@extraspecialk3244]

The addition of the Primarch's having a mother who wishes to save them from the Emperor's cruel plans, really not only retcons the lore but makes the Emperor a completely different character. He goes from being the matter of mankind to a megalomaniac who can't do anything right unless a smarter woman is helping him...

[@Vasily_Kotickovitch]

The entire Horse Heresy is horrible, without exception. This is a completely commercial project for selling tons of graphomania books and more Space Marines models for those who already have tons of Space Marines models.

[@dzeclectic2327]

This video stands on a number of assumptions: 1) Horus' time travel was real and not symbolic. 2) The Emperor didn't want the primarchs scattered (an issue even Guilliman speculates was intentional) As a side note Konrad tells Sanguinius he thinks the Emperor engineered Horus' fall during their fight on McCragg/Imperium Secundus. 3a) Erda wasn't influenced by chaos to do what she did, which Erebus implies before he believes he killed her (he probably didn't) 3b) We're not going to see her again both later in the timeline and in pre 30k stories (spoiler: we probably will)

[@yellowdancer7055]

New viewer. Great summary and take on the topic

[@RedHierophant23]

Glad you've enjoyed it, brother!

[@psychosytheXmediaXco]

I mean, I think having the Primarchs be scattered in a deliberate plot by someone close to the Emperor was a WAY, WAY better story that the chaos gods just tearing open a portal like fucking Aku in the middle of the E's most heavily fortified sanctuary because chaos OP, which is how it's always been explained to me. But this story reminds me of some classical Greek-style tragedy that only works as a plot if all of the characters are continuously high on air duster or something. But I feel that way about most 40k stories.

[@JohnBeck-pb9xl]

Erda is what happened when GW writers attempt to pander to current day woke shite.

[@rdavian]

Exactly

[@mattmark94]

Erda's death = rare Erebus win.

[@marcustrajan4873]

Agreed and Erebus finally did the right thing by offing the w(b)itch.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Wait a minute, I thought the Primarchs were all artificially cloned from the Emperor alone. Where did this goose shit about a mother come from? I mean, if they were gonna go this route, then maybe the Emperor and this Erda could've just made the Primarchs the old fashioned way through natural birth.

[@ImSoSalty88]

Honestly most GW content is subpar and poorly thought out. Seems like the premise is that if they make enough, eventually some of it will be good. The concepts the content is based on is more interesting than the actual content. I don't think things like this slip past the editors, it's just their bar is so low.

[@jacobyin5320]

I heard a theory that the Emperor knew that Erda would do this and let it happen so the Primarchs could learn important stuff by growing up in wildly different places so that they may draw upon these experiences and be better generals.

[@mattmark94]

I'm sorry but that is pure cope

[@jacobyin5320]

@mattmark94 yeah probably...

[@1012-v9r]

This is a mainly a joke, but maybe baby Fulgrim psychically messed with her.

[@thesmilinggun-knight9646]

Woman just couldn’t handle that a baby fulgrim was prettier then her. Edit Now I’m just imagining a baby fulgrim floating in a tube or something with his long Silver-white hair already grown and erda just looking pissed at him.

[@nickspivey4453]

Erda Seems to be a character that has been reckoned due to the events of argel tall and the other ward bearers with them. I do not think Erda is a strong character due to the fact that we didn't get enough time to see develop, and your points helped with this argument.

[@doktorparadox1791]

I like her. Erda character make sense

[@mikhielthorsson6033]

I'm in agreement with you. To me, it's almost like so many others trying to insert a strong waman like the mSHEu, and what's happening with star wars and Indiana Jones. In the vernacular of South Park, "put more women in it and make them lame and gay!".

[@maxstr]

Warhammer is massive circle-jerk. I wouldn't mind if they added more women into the stories, not because "woke", but because women do exist in Warhammer. However, either GW or the authors seem to struggle with it. One exception is the excellent Bequin trilogy, probably thanks to Dan Abnett's experience writing a thousand Vampirella novels. I've always enjoyed female protagonists for some reason.

[@RapterLover13]

2:25, than why did she trust 4 literal, demonic chows, gods, instead of taking upon herself to putting them in homes on planets that won’t scar them or turn them into literal fucking monsters, and keep tabs on them, since she love them? Bad, weak writing obviously.

[@sametekiz3709]

I am the 1000 sub and you deserve more.

[@RedHierophant23]

Legend!