Detention

Happy Halloween month! Detention is a game you may have already heard of - it's been covered pretty extensively on KZbin in the past - but it's definitely not a title you'll want to overlook if you're into spoopy games that also have a little more going on under the hood than giving you the creeps.
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This episode was made possible by generous support through Patreon!
/ errantsignal
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[@ianeborn6823]

The thing that breaks my heart in this game is seeing just how much time has passed by the start--how old the male student is, how dilapidated the school--and thus thinking about for just how _long_ poor Ray has been going through this cycle, repeating the horror and realisation over and over again until, maybe, this time at last she manages to reconcile with her past and finally move on...

[@wave-zd5sm]

She must have woken up on that stage for countless times...

[@theshonen8899]

I am Taiwanese and I did not feel that this game romanticized their relationship at all. The game viewed it through her lens, depicting her own sick fantasies. Teacher/student relationships in Taiwan commonly end in suicide for the students and are major news stories. The developers of this game are very clearly depicting it negatively, portraying her as a flawed human being with destructive vices. It is unthinkable for me to imagine any Taiwanese would romanticize a topic that plagues Taiwan this way. To "chalk this up to a cultural thing" as if Taiwanese people accept these relationships sounds disrespectful to me.

[@marhepto]

Yeah, I was surprised he leaned so heavily on the "romantic" interpretation of that element. The game is clearly *sympathetic* to Ray's feelings, but more in the sense that it understands why someone facing the political climate of the time while dealing with a shitty familial situation would jump for the first guy who shows her any affection. I mean, Ray's feelings - which she develops after being manipulated and clings to after the guy inevitably discards her - form the catalyst for her moral sin that she spends the game being haunted by. I really don't view the developers as portraying this in any kind of positive way.

[@GmodPlusWoW]

I'm guessing that the mere notion of that kind of relationship rubbed Chris the wrong way.

[@boomkruncher325zzshred5]

Because the game is sympathetic to the victim, it tells the perspective of the student being in love, when in reality the student is the victim of a crime and a breach of trust between teacher and student. Because the game paints their relationship as something positive (because of the rose-colored glasses perspective of the victim who doesn’t see how bad it is), the game seems to say “Go ahead and romance your teachers when the rest of your life is an absolute mess.” At least the game is accurate with the fallout from the teacher’s actions. The teacher was the true antagonist, as the teacher supplied banned materials to his students and romanced a vulnerable student under his care. His actions spurred the plot, and the victim going to the authorities was the only thing she could have done to set things right. Now, did the teacher deserve execution? No. Some prison time for the illegal teacher-student relationship would have been more appropriate. Literature should not be banned in the first place, unless there is a very good reason for it (and it is implied that no such reason existed). Should the book club have been imprisoned for decades? No. They were victims of their teacher, and were innocent of wrongdoing. I like how, in the true ending, both the spirit of the student who committed suicide and the wrongly imprisoned student sit down together, finally coming to terms with the tragedy and insanity of their youth. I hope they both found peace in that moment.

[@romankov3682]

This is a thing a see alot with people who tend to want the framing of amoral acts as terrible without context to the characters. I don't think he actually believes this type of behavior is palatable in Taiwan. More so, he was listing justifications as to why the developers thought that a quasi-romantic framing of the relationship would be okay. This is clearly a matter of interpretation as to how the framing was carried out. Was it strictly from Fei's point of view, and therefore, it was the only comfort she knew before death? This frame would be apathetic to an absolute morality, as we are only dealing with how Fei would choose to comfort herself. Or, was it a matter of providing the player with a positive ending? If so, then I think they still only had 1 option that makes sense in the context of the plot. Thus, if the developers wanted to avoid this reading of the game, we would have to provide Fei the wherewithal to NOT TORTURE HERSELF (i.e. grow to accept what happened.) This does not really happen to teenage characters without emotional guidance, so I think the developers would have found that resolution to be contrived. TL;RD - The developers may have wanted to provide an positive ending that was not contrived by her just getting over her self-torment. It is not a morally definitive ending, but makes sense for an emotionally-damaged teenager stuck in limbo.

[@130lukas]

Have to agree with this. I feel ES was too literally thinking about the framing of the relationship and less on our girl's "vision" of what that relationship was. She is rather naive after all and so in a world where almost everything was horrible for her this was a rare moment of "good" in her life without even realizing. in the end it's all about coming to terms with what happend in her life.

[@oiiopo]

I just wanted to mention one thing I absolutely loved about this game, which I think you gloss over a little - each puzzle feels designed specifically to advance a narrative goal, rather than most puzzle/story games that put some challenges in your way so you don't barrel through the walking simulator segments too quickly. **spoilers** The mirror puzzle you show for a bit is a good example - it's a metaphor for Rey's conflicted internal psyche and her having to identify and shut down the backwards parts of her fractured identity in order to move forward. The one that really stuck with me though (and it's been a year since I've played it, but I still remember the puzzle itself) is the time-travelling puzzle with the family portraits that cry pink tears. It's clear to the player upon first seeing the tears that they correspond to a clock time, so they move with purpose back through the scene of Rey's troubled home life to try the solution. But the pink tears are deliberately misleading because the pictures are rotated, so you won't solve the puzzle correctly on your first try. You're required to walk back through the home scene again to check the portrait, and yet again to try to solve the puzzle. The game forces you to keep returning to this painful space, while hinting at the difficulty you had in piecing together why your parents' relationship was failing. You could do this kind of analysis for nearly every puzzle in Detention. The developers are amazing at making metaphors into interactive setpieces, which is a technique that's so beautifully endemic to video games as a medium, and yet most devs don't bother exploring it at all.

[@balrogdahomie]

A lot of people have already commented on this, but I found the relationship between Fang and the teacher to not be romanticized at all. Everyone else who knows about it in the story knows it’s a terrible thing and tries to stop it. I think you’re falling into the old issue of conflating what the protagonist believes with what the game is advocating for. Fang, effectively, is starved for attention and love. So she leaps at the first person to show her any affection, and in doing so, is manipulated into an abusive and unhealthy relationship herself. The fact that Fang (spoiler) effectively kills all her friends to preserve it, I thought made it pretty clear this wasn’t a healthy relationship.

[@junebunchanumbers]

I don't agree that the game is romanticising Fang's relationship with her counsellor. What it is doing, is looking unflinchingly at how Fang herself feels about him, and giving context as to why. It's very clearly an abusive relationship and I don't think Fang herself understands that.

[@iwannabeyahtzee8056]

Right! I saw it as the game looking at their relationship through her eyes. She sees it as something positive but that doesn't mean it is.

[@SuperSecretAgentNein]

Agreed. The romantic tones of the soundtrack literally turn to horror when he holds her hand at the movies. To me that read as “oh shit the suspected ulterior motives he has are cemented as true this isn’t good”

[@Phos67]

@@SuperSecretAgentNein But he turned out to not have any.

[@minapazderak5867]

I agree. I think it's only framed as positive because that's how she saw it. Most kids who are manipulated into pedophilic relationships (and by this I mean the ones where there are no forced interactions, where the victim thinks that it is a good thing) think that they're just mature, they're in love, why can't everyone leave them alone. It isn't usually until they reach adulthood themselves that they truly see the vast chasm between their age and a child or teens and just how abusive and manipulative that is. Unfortunately for Ray, she never reached that age. She never got to see that realization. And in her childish tantrum, she ruined lives. People went to prison, became exiles, they died..... And she is haunted by that. And it's effective

[@Unit27]

Agreed. For me, framing it this way from her point of view makes it so you can understand her motivation. It makes you weigh Chen's misdeed of starting a relationship with a vulnerable student against her response when she gets her heart broken. Both did very wrong, but Rei's acts end up destroying many people's lives along with Chen's.

[@aylasabatini7122]

The game and the devs aren't romanticizing Ray's relationship with Mr. Chang, Ray is romanticizing it. It's through her POV and she attached herself to Mr. Chang because he was the only one giving her attention and was her escape from her abusive household. Frankly, it felt like Mr. Chang was leading her on judging from his reaction to Ms. Yin calling him out and flat out telling him what he's doing is wrong, which Ray misunderstands as Ms. Yin getting in the way of her relationship with Mr. Chang.

[@Jaspertine]

*Spoiler* I remember one of the rooms in the game having an ad for a private detective clipped out of a magazine or newspaper. My interpretation was that Fang's mother hired someone to snoop on her husband in order to find evidence of him cheating on her, and it was the detective who caught the husband getting involved in bribery, rather than the mother explicitly ratting him out.

[@Greendog208]

I kinda thought the ending was more the protagonist reconciling what she did with wether or not it was worth it. Not really anything about if the relationship was morally correct.

[@Crispman_777]

I suppose that the relationship between the girl and the counselor could be read as being shown from the girl's perspective, which would explain the sympathy.

[@MstreEnsin]

This game really fucked me up. Imagine being killed or jailed for reading the wrong book. The majority of us were born in the right time. We all have our struggles and crosses to bear but most of us haven’t lived through wars or fucking marshal laws. We should be more thankful for that.

[@gargamellenoir8460]

This game was the closest experience I got from Silent Hill 2 (yeah I know quoting it is a cliché by this point). Slow creeping horror, gradual transition between the slightly run down urban environment to the frankly horrific, supernatural overlaying deep personal tragedy, environmental symbolism... And an ending that makes you think "Those poor people... What a waste" and stays with you.

[@ripbooboo8563]

Please do more Kitty Horrorshow Stuff!

[@thomasking7365]

I love this art style and it reminds me a lot of the cat lady. I think I gotta play it. Also been reading a lot of comments about the relationship between the teacher and the student, and I can agree that it is definitely shown through the perspective of a naive child.

[@danyo10]

love ur October vids! especially the one on Anatomy

[@daevious_]

What I like most about Detention is that, whether intentional or not (and I personally bank on it being a coincidence), this game feels like a homage to the type of 90's Japanese horror games that emphasised atmosphere and storytelling over logic puzzle gameplay. In particular, the Twilight/Moonlight Syndrome games have a similar "character in foreground walks in front of massive background" look during normal gameplay, and share a similar motif of supernatural/societal oppression throughout.

[@joshyeldham]

daevious There is something a bit 'Resident Evil but in school' about it...

[@daevious_]

Not really. Resident Evil is more about preserving ammo and healing until you absolutely need than Detention's focus on atmospheric horror. If you want to see a Resident Evil-inspired version of this format, then the Fatal Frame series is the place to look.

[@joshyeldham]

They're both about keys & puzzles in big opressive buildings.

[@joshyeldham]

High level Resident Evil 90's Japanese horror game play often involves an emphasis on dodging enemies... a bit like this game. And they both have Hand Cranks.

[@joshyeldham]

You find other people at carefully placed cutscene moments, but they don't really affect the core gameplay, and then they disappear off screen until you see them much later... as a way to gauge horror tension & release.

[@Sniper5875]

I'm guessing the cube escape and rust lake series are out then? They have many puzzles with absurd logic but I'd love a story analysis done well

[@NoNameAtAll2]

Ooh, the cube series! So many memories me trying those games and failing...

[@JorgeLopez-jd8ds]

Noice

[@petitnicollas]

I was waiting for you to make a video about Detention. Love that game

[@jillhopkins4842]

For the next game named Devotion, Pooh is its kiss of death.

[@HandOfThemis]

Great video as always. You're definitely right about the nature of their relationship being kinda creepy, but perhaps this is the point. The only "good" thing in this girls life, was terrible to outsiders. The only thing that made her feel good/happy was a very predatory-seeming relationship. And I guess this story element did it's job; it had me wondering if they would ever have even had a sexual relationship to begin with if the country weren't under a Military Regime. The fact that they wouldn't be in the book club is one thing, but my other thought was about their mindsets. The entire country felt the emotional impact of the communist purgings, and that had to be a factor in this tragic love-affair.

[@chlebek2958]

Great! Will you make Observer analysis? I was searching for a good analysis for that game, but everyone ignored it!

[@ErrantSignal]

I'm on the fence - It's on my Halloween list but I've got two other games ahead of it, and Observer is a pretty big game, so I'm not sure I'll have time this year. :( That said, it's also big enough to maybe warrant a full episode at some point?

[@thequeenofswords7230]

Literally checked my subs (apparently) a little more than 20 minutes ago and was like, 'aw, nothing yet, I hope he's still going to do it again this year?' Yay!

[@d33pakkkk]

Great video. The best on detention I found in KZbin.

[@hotleg777]

Wow, I did not know about the "good" ending, and that puts a real damper on an incredible trip. I remember getting the knife early on in the game, when I was still like "WTF is going on?", and knowing immediately what I needed to do to proceed. The camera panning up in scene that scene, confirming my suspicion, was some great design.

[@zabaoth]

Yep. I first found the knife, then the bowl, after that the pamphlet... and I immediately knew what I had to do, it clicked so easily a moment I was like "Aha!" and the next "Man... that shouldn't be your first thought". That scene was very well crafted indeed. Even on a metaphorical level, because even if she didn't know he was killing Wei by her actions (and she didn't), getting the message that you need to spill blood to get what you want, and literally doing it, works on multiple levels. Except for framing Chang as a good guy. He was a egomaniacal, manipulative pedo. I disliked him even before the relationship part due to his holier than thou attitude.

[@diale13]

You have so many good videos man!

[@meltdownremix1996]

When I played the game I didn't really get the impression that the game was romanticizing That relationship, rather that it was a thing that happened and contributed to the tragedy, but now that you put it that way, yeah, I feel creeped out which sucks because otherwise I really loved this.

[@jobojoe1]

That piano puzzle reminds me instantly of Silent Hill! :D

[@corbettcappon6220]

It's a long shot, but it suuuuure would be cool if you ended up analyzing the very abstract "Yume Nikki" indie horror game. * It's one of the first "walking simulator" type games. (There are gameplay interactions, but they aren't the focus, and they're more often there more for purely artistic purposes rather than accomplishing objectives) * it's inspired hundreds of fan games, along with influencing countless others (including parts of undertale, and doki doki literature club). * It's also my favorite horror game, and I haven't played anything else quite like it to this day

[@blindbeholder9713]

Not lamentation, lament. Lament is a noun.

[@Taliasaurus]

BRB gonna beat Detention and come back to watch this video

[@ejones9105]

Great video as usual. Thanks!

[@8BitHorse]

I played this game last year around Halloween and was expecting a traditional horror experience. I was very surprised to find such a serious and personal story, along with a bit of added cultural insight on my part.

[@AlchemicSoul]

I have to agree on the ending, the main ending of a game like this should be singular and apparent. Bad endings should come earlier in the game, as side events or just bonuses. That is how my favorite Japanese horror games tend to do it.

[@TonyScimeca]

Oooh spoopy

[@youssefa.2251]

Well I thought the "counselor student" relationship worked because it's a game meant to creep us out xD his conversation with Mrs Yin worked so well for me as a plot twist. Also her being a snitch, making that phone call make more sense. It were reveals like this that made my jaw drop and I loved it. Other than that, their situation was shitty enough anyway lmao

[@Horseofhope]

The Cat Lady and Downfall deserve some love!

[@user-ui1vb2pb6g]

I really like your channel, You have nailed what i consider the perfect outro, you wont find any "sweaty ballsack please subscribe like share teabags" here. just some credits and some nice thoughtful music from the OST of the game in question.

[@FarisPlayer1]

the game got a really weird change of themes from local folklore and mythology into personal hell psychological trauma

[@Ikcatcher]

FarisPlayer1 It was really jarring even for horror game standards, like halfway through the game there’s literally no more monsters

[@MiloKuroshiro]

You know normally the first comes hand to hand with the second right?

[@balrogdahomie]

It’s like a Taiwanese Silent Hill but Silent Hill one and two got stuck together so you get both the weird religious stuff and personal psychological stuff

[@Steve3child]

I don't know if you've already filled your pipeline with games to cover for Halloween but if you haven't, check out Jimmy and the Pulsating Mass for it's creepy, surrealistic tonal shifts.

[@Ikcatcher]

Not gonna lie, the ending got really depressing for me, especially the good ending

[@Lulink013]

Fifteen seconds. Detention for you. When will you leaaaaarn? Great review, BTW! Not my kind of game, but I can still enjoy some of the game through this video.

[@gebbygebbers]

Lol baldi

[@TheSugarRay]

Skoopy

[@maximaur]

At what time is it spoiler free again ?

[@gelotologistgrandma3791]

11:28

[@zabaoth]

play the game, man. It's at most 3hrs long. That is if you know how to play piano.

[@LuisMartinez-ye7nc]

[@GreatAuben]

review cat lady!

[@theSato]

Even if the relationship was romanticised..that's the point. The viewer is supposed to see it as positive because they see it as positive. You don't have to agree with something for it to be okay.

[@Space_Gaucho]

I know you probably thought a lot about this but, please consider adding an end time for spoilers in the future. I end up not watching many of your videos all the way through because its like "wow this game I've never heard about looks interesting" and then the video gets to an open ended spoiler warning. =/

[@ScreamingWhisper]

It was spoiler city from the start of the spoiler section on. The time to stop watching the video is pretty much always when the spoiler warning comes on till the end.

[@LemonChieff]

Please do Destiny 2 Forsaken

[@n0vi]

Thank you for calling out the pedo shit.

[@GibusWearingMann]

One of the fonts in this game is the same font used for the "Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes" manual pages and that's very distracting.

[@samhobson9334]

:)

[@quattroUnodos]

that f'ing music puzzle... i must be tone deaf-ish

[@NoContext420]

Hey, running off with her student worked for the president of France's wife.

[@rocko7711]

🥰😍🤩😘

[@CuulX]

*Spoiler* A horror story where you were the ghost? Almost as spooky as a horror story where the skeleton was inside you all along!

[@joshyeldham]

In Soviet Union, Ghost is You!

[@zabaoth]

Comrade, in Soviet Union Ghosts are property of the State. Report for immediate reeducation by bullet to the head.

[@bascal133]

Lmaoo that last part eww 😷 not good!

[@MemeScreen]

I can easily look past your narrow view of love

[@zabaoth]

What is love?

[@put1996]

Yeah, it's culture thing. Well it's not a 'norm' thing in real life, but in story (especially those focus on female audience) the teacher-student relationship are quite popular. It's so popular it ascend into trope tick box that you must has it or you won't be a 'proper' romantic story. I think these boy-band members are.... [hothead sport dude of same year] , [cool-clam science senior with glasses] , [funny child-like junior] , [kind teacher / coolheart teacher], and finally [bully with heart of gold dude].

[@patavinity1262]

You should learn what words like 'synecdoche' mean before using them in videos.

[@zabaoth]

(EDIT: HUMONGOUS SPOILERS) Man, thanks for confirming I didn't go completely insane by thinking they screwed the pooch framing the egomaniacal, manipulative pedophile as a victim, especially if you get the "true" ending. I mean, like everyone and their dog is pointing out, the game is from her perspective, that's why it's looked like a positive thing, but even if you ignore that he's in a position of power and she's underaged, he's still a cheating asshole who dumped her without a second thought after her actual gf found out, and that's knowledge she has. She did the list thing to get rid of her, and he was caught in the crossfire. But pretty much, he was worse than her dad, but they show no empathy for him whatsoever. He deserved punishment, maybe not using those manipulative ways and caught in the crossfire, but he definitely wasn't a daffodil. Also, if Wei got imprisoned at 16, even if he served his whole sentence, that's a rough 31. I mean, I'm 31 and don't consider myself an old man. Then again, I didn't spend half my life in a dictatorial torture prison. And why do you keep mentioning the lack of jump scares as if it were a bad thing? Anyone can do a jump scare. A cat can do it. It's a reflex. It's the cheapest form of horror. True horror lies behind the real fears of the human mind, the incomprehensible, and the irreversible. That's why that uncanny valley vibe the game gives works so well, along with the theme of an endless cycle of torment motivated by guilt, the oppressive atmosphere of being trapped, and this game pulled it off pretty well. The text was a little off, and I'd wished to have subs for the extended tidbits of text, instead of just the character's reaction, because I felt I was missing out, but I think it's a fucking good game.

[@TheBloodswordsman]

Pfft. If that relationship creeps you out, dont read the original Sakura Card Captor manga... in fact just dont read anything by CLAMP

[@TykoBrian7]

What are you even talking about???

[@JohnnyMarsBar]

@@TykoBrian7 I don't know either, maybe you should Google it and find out what he's talking about

[@MiloKuroshiro]

CSS has a relationship between a teacher and a 10/11 years old girl. And just goes with it like it's nothing. In the new arc/sequel they just removed the teacher and never talks about that again.

[@TykoBrian7]

@@JohnnyMarsBar Google yeilds nothing. She's just talking out of her ass.

[@TykoBrian7]

@@MiloKuroshiro lol what teacher?

[@CarsonZXY]

Oh yeah, my man. You totally missed out the context of their relationship. I mean, holding hands is a bit... explicit... given Japanese norms on affection but given the snippets I see here it looks like a Romantic (in the sense of drama) take on a master and student driven higher by the uncertainty of the time. It makes a lot more thematic sense in the original chinese. Also, the name of the country is "China", not Taiwan. They see themselves as "true Chinese in exile" Sorry for getting all PC

[@leviadragon99]

I mean... the "is this place China or Taiwan" thing was still a pretty contentious issue last I checked. I don't really have a personal stake in that fight, but acting as if calling that region China is the desirable choice really depends on who you're talking to at any given time as far as I am aware. As for the depicted relationship being more platonic... I mean there's room for interpretation there, but that also means you can't automatically dismiss the interpretation of it being romantic either, unless you have a source on the original creators and their intent.

[@idiotweasels]

Have to correct you here. The people here (Taiwan) call the country "Taiwan", I don't know anyone that calls it China. Actually, the real name is Republic of China (ROC) but most people don't like to call it that precisely because of what happened during the authoritarian era. In turn, mainland China is called "Mainland", while the official name is People's Republic of China (PRC).

[@Maawaa]

@@leviadragon99 I'm no expert on the Taiwan issue, but if people can't be bothered to do a quick wikipedia search, I'll summarise that there are three competing viewpoints: that Taiwan should be considered an independent state, which is a position that is largely favoured by more liberal factions across the world but not in the region; or that Taiwan is rightfully part of "China", which the Chinese government maintains and is backed by the fact Taiwan is not represented in the UN (although there are Taiwanese "embassies" and "relationships" all over the world); or that the rest of the country ("China") is the mainland of one nation that would rightfully be under the rule of the Taiwanese government. Unless Errant Signal started this with an indepth political explanation, you can see that calling this region China could be seen as a political declaration of either of the latter two views, which I think is why the first is practically supported in the west.