EV Start Up Comparison. A look at the different strategies of Aptera, Canoo and XBUS.

[@baker3354]

One of the most common "criticisms" I've seen about Aptera is that "oh, they failed when they tried this before". Well, isn't it one of the truisms of business that one of the best paths to success is failure? Aptera LEARNED from their part experience, and have avoided mistakes this time around. I really hope they have great success. The world needs hyper-efficient vehicles!

[@MrAlziepen]

The people with enough capital to just keep doing it are the ones who get lucky, which is why we have such a skewed view of startups because in news and media only the success stories are praised not the thousands of failures.

[@Running__Rabbit]

If you know history some great people failed multiple time before find success. 2 of my favorite, Henry Ford fails 3 times before the Success of the Model T and Milton Hershey failed twice.

[@Salanan]

This! I do worry though because with the markets taking a down turn and inflation on the rise, we're in a similar economic situation now as we were when they went bankrupt before.

[@passivlife]

@@Salanan On the plus side, high fuel prices create demand for alternative forms of transport. In a way, Aptera could not have timed it better.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

Colonel Harlen Sanders started at 65 and failed 1009 times before success

[@Roshiyu]

Aptera learned from their first go of things, when investors wanted an 'experienced' CEO to run the company. And that CEO immediately wanted to gut the three wheel concept, and change it to a four wheeled car for government backing. Now, they're keeping full control.

[@passivlife]

Yeap. Very common with any change of management, the new managers always want to make changes, regardless of if they are needed or not.

[@Sphinx6x8]

Solar panel does not work on EV. too little energy.

[@Roshiyu]

@@Sphinx6x8 On the average EV that uses 300-400 watts per mile? Agree. But if you reduce that amount to 100 watts? Then you get a decent amount of range per day to justify the cost of solar.

[@Sphinx6x8]

@@Roshiyu watt is not a unit for energy, it is unit for power, or how fast energy flow in period of time. Do you mean watts-hour?

[@purplej12]

As I've been investing, I'm learning that many "investors" are just advanced money launderers who install CEOs to sabotage businesses. Good for Aptera. Don't trust someone who has a lot of money but has never done anything for society. I'm not saying there can't be good wealth managers, but I think you should see it before you believe otherwise.

[@SteveBueche1027]

Aptera is the slow consistent runner who'll make it to the finish line. With over 27K reservations and a remarkable concept/idea it just makes sense for the future of transportation. Oil and gas will always be around, but we don't need to use as much of it as we have. Their soon to be released Gamma prototype (July 2022) will be just before the production intent car and will showcase everything we can expect for the starting price of $25K (250 mile range/14 miles a day in solar/front wheel drive)

[@normanroberts6241]

Last official reservation count from Aptera is 25K ?? Where are you getting your info to quote 27K??

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@normanroberts6241 now over 30 K reservations

[@milk-zd4vk]

i wish canoo can be successful, i just like the design

[@danielmunoz5779]

Canoo situation has drastically improved, out of these three companies I think they have the most opportunity for growth.

[@hemaccabe4292]

They ain’t in production yet are they.

[@MaticTheProto]

@@hemaccabe4292 everything is planned

[@barnabasseadog7660]

They cannot produce this vehicle at a profit Just like Rivian, Lucid, and Arcimoto. No clear path to profitability. Aptera looks better than everyone except Tesla.

[@MaticTheProto]

@@barnabasseadog7660 Tesla also almost failed many times. Your point?

[@brecherxp9795]

Aptera is the just right car in these times of increasing energy crisis. Great car, would really buy it, if not too expensive.

[@Krieghandt]

As EVs go, pretty cheap starting at just over $25k

[@craigarnold1212]

For Aptera I think this is going to come down to market reaction in terms of completed reservations. If there is a good ratio of completions to cancelations that may give confidence that this is a product not a fad. Hopefully some institutions will come in with the desired capitol to create more assembly plants and fund designing the 5 passenger car. They are going to have to show that they have a profitable, small factory concept for this product design pretty fast. It is going to take some time to build up production of the hub motors, which is in a way a start up as well.

[@LightsOnMultiMediaMindArts]

There is a paradox: people claim to want four or five passenger vehicles, but when I watch cars on the road it is a rare thing to see more than one driver per car or pickup. Maybe we need vehicles that change size and shed mass somehow according to the trip. A simpler solution is perhaps for families to have access to two vehicles--EVs preferred: one small, lighter with one or two seats, the other vehicle large enough to carry four or five. I wonder if it wouldn't be better to own a smaller-lighter EV and rent larger vehicles when needed unless they are needed for business or everyday use. I ride an ebike to get around town and we own a Tesla Model 3, so gas prices don't impact me directly. I don't know how families can afford to pump $1400/month into a pickup truck to drive to work.

[@craigarnold1212]

@@LightsOnMultiMediaMindArts I think their utility concept shown at the February Q & A sort of addresses that in that you could exchange slide on attachments to the basic truck like platform; mini van, work van, camper. Possibly start with 2 person cab and add another seating row if you need with a haul bed or go mini van if a growing family. It becomes a flexible vehicle to be adapted as needs do which may save money over time.

[@joeaverager]

I really like the simplistic design of the XBus. They could even leave out the display on the dash and just give me analog gauges. Even the top speed of 60 mph is fine for my intended uses. I live in a county full of country roads with a 45 mph top speed. I just couldn't go on the highway/interstate but I'd prefer something larger and safer for those trips anyhow. This thing would be much safer than my motorcycle or vintage vehicles.

[@sp1nks248]

Holon Auto is coming to Jacksonville florida.

[@barnabasseadog7660]

Canoo was the first vehicle I considered for an EV when it was supposed to sell for $35K. That was four years ago. Now I commute in an Arcimoto. It delivers as advertised and is quite unique.

[@KeithRowell]

Xbus in hub motors sounded attractive to me also. But, I was always curious how they dealt with the problem of "un-sprung weight". This is weight in the wheels, brake calipers, disks, hibs, etc. The more weight you add, the more the, safety, handling and comfort are compromised. But more important still are the bearings of the hub motor itself. Not only is a hub motor heavy, but it's mass, taking the impact of every bump and pothole will likely tear itself apart from impacts. I just assumed this was the technical problem that caused the drive train change. I hoped to see in hub motors incorporated into electric car design. But I had concerns that they wouldn't last on normal "poor" road conditions.

[@passivlife]

Thanks for the comment. I know what you mean, I've been reading up on unsprung weight for the past couple of months. It's really interesting, but it doesn't behave quite as I (or we) thought. I'm in the middle of editing a video on this subject.

[@MechmanGetrieb]

I miss Sono Motors with there Sion in this comparison but Interesting comparison anyway!

[@wflzoom6219]

Each one of these seem to have their pros and cons, Canoo is nice looking and seems functional , but probably the most costly of the three contenders here, been hearing about them a long time, and haven't seen much progress, the XBUS, has some good features, like the price, the interchangeable batteries, and range, they look cute, but, I have a couple concerns, one is top speed, and safety, these things get their range by being very light, and then they are so high, I would be afraid a strong gust of wind, would blow this thing right over. Aptera seems to have solved that problem, by making their vehicle aerodynamic, the only drawback is, the futuristic look of it, is not going to be everyone's cup of tea.

[@bheppes]

With Canoo's score of the commercial van model agreement, I don't think Canoo is going anywhere. We'll have to see if they can put anything on the road and fill any of those touted 10k reservations (though it might be 20k by now).

[@passivlife]

Yes they got extremely lucky with that last minute deal. I hope they make it but I'm still a little concerned about the circumstances of the deal. They were desperate which left them vulnerable. fingers crossed they didnt dig themselves a large hole.

[@vanrozay8871]

Another Aptera advantage is making one model. Canoo and Xbus modularity and configurability are admirable, but they'd both have a much better chance of eking by if they started with only one model: the Canoo pickup and Xbus camper.

[@johndunford6082]

Well that is me finished with Xbus, I was excited about one. Have money ready to go and even come up with a strategy to keep me going till 2024 before I could get me one. Then your bombshell about the removable battery’s discontinued, reduced roof solar power and the clunky power draining drive. Not so important was the modular body change, but I could have updated to something different should I want to so another no no now. A failed executive no doubt on a 6 or 7 figure salary has killed the concept.

[@johnf3326]

Xbus only can do 60mph max and its probably a bit small and too basic inside. With a huge range it must have comfortable seats

[@passivlife]

The range is very debatable at the moment. We'll see when it comes out what the official figures are.

[@pauld6967]

I had been unaware of the changes with the X-Bus company. It is a bit disappointing to see the concept being watered down. I still hope that they succeed.

[@Eslar]

It's a weird one. For the now bigger Batterie modules. Having multiple groups of batteries with different charging levels feed the same power system is hard or even impossible to do without loosing efficiency by converting that power around, unless every module on its own is able to power the whole system. Making every battery big enough to power the whole system would solve that. Since the fullest battery will power the whole car, and the other modules join in as soon as the fullest module reaches their voltage levels. Alternatively all modules would need to charge and balance eachother the moment you insert the batteries so they can properly work together as one, doing that without breaking the batteries would take 10-30mins and basically use up a charging cycle of the batteries. So I can see on practicality reasons why they might need to change / water down the concept. On the tires/motors. Hub motors have a potential problem. Tires need to be changed. So if you deviate from the very well established rim and tire combination, you suddenly have to literally reinvent the wheel and it's distribution service and production network. I hope they balance the additional parts Vs. Standardizing to existing infrastructure well. I want that vehicle. I just hope they manage to build it. We'll hopefully see what kind and quality of cars they build with the evetta car they want to produce end 2023 and ship early 2024.

[@passivlife]

Interesting points. It really is a shame about the battery. I was genuinely interested in the vehicle just because of that. With regards to the hub motors. They use standard wheels and standard tyres and standard suspension. The hub motors are.small enough to fit inside the standard wheel hubs. The only reason they dropped them, imo, was because they are trying to sell to the German market primarily. The German market is sadly dominated by mercedes, vw and bmw. They have very strong media connections that heavily promote ices. They still struggle with the idea of central ev motor, hub motors.are a totally alien concept. So fear of the new.won out over sense.

[@Deontjie]

It is easier to draw a picture than to build vehicle.

[@tettazwo9865]

I am not fond of the steering wheel, but like the CANOO aside from that!

[@SebastianMercado-vz9fu]

Damn shame for the X Bus-t... :,(

[@thomascorbett2936]

Well I hope Aptera succeeds, I invested my life savings . 😆

[@MrAlziepen]

Yikes dude. I'm invested as well just 2k nothing crazy, but I hope it works out for you.

[@thomascorbett2936]

@@MrAlziepen Yeah I do some foolish risky things sometimes, I hoppe it works out for us all .

[@6.5x55]

I SAW WHAT YOU DID THERE😉

[@n.brucenelson5920]

@@thomascorbett2936 Thomas, your risk may end up benefiting all of us. Thank you!.

[@thomascorbett2936]

@@n.brucenelson5920 thank you .

[@martengravenstein2562]

First Ive heard of Class B stocks. That sounds like the way to do business. Less chiefs in the kitchen

[@teddystoner8288]

I like the xbus. So sleek and sexy. I must have it. But seriously I do like it.

[@luxfino]

I saw the Xbus in person but concluded not to trust the people involved. Design was bought in from external designer but soon watered down with no taste decisions. Big promises remained.

[@passivlife]

Yeah there are so many cool aspects of the XBUS, but the interior design needs an overhaul. I hope they make it, if only because I would like to see them bought out by a bigger company.

[@andycordy5190]

Heartbreaking to hear such calamities particularly at Xbus. The abandoning of battery swopping, so obviously promising but also the backwards step to central power. Crazy. No surprise to me that its creators have all left. A tragic and fatal injection of conservatism

[@passivlife]

Yeah its a real shame imo. It was special, now its just the same as all the rest.

[@Longsnowsm]

Aptera is is out of money and they just revealed the launch ready vehicle and there is no DCFC. It appears the vehicle design and space does not provide for enough cooling and it largely using a passive cooling so does not look likely that DCFC will be able to be part of this package. It is going to be a hard sell without fast charging as an option.

[@passivlife]

How fast things change. Now we have the possibility of upto 60kw DCFC as standard. Which would make it the fastest charging vehicle on the road in mph. Nice. Even if they only hit 40kw it will charge faster than most other EVS in mph. Amazing.

[@Longsnowsm]

@@passivlife Now I want to see the test mule vehicles and lets see some testing. 🙂

[@LPSCaitelyn]

Please go watch the video canoo just uploaded on yt… I have high hopes for them to succeed!! NASA is driving canoo, Walmart purchased 4,500 canoos, other companies purchased canoos, over 17000+ preorders, they even made a truck for the army! And you’re telling me canoo isn’t cool or isn’t gonna succeed..? I know that they’re a new business but I have high hopes for canoo… I invested in them because I like the story behind it.. and I love to unique features and designs! Please do more research on them 😢

[@passivlife]

Thanks for the comment. Yes I think it is time to do a follow up video on Canoo. They somehow managed to perform a minor miracle in saving themselves. I also hope Canoo makes it, the original concept is extremely cool, but it was badly mismanaged at various stages. Lets hope their troubles are over.

[@LPSCaitelyn]

@@passivlife yes I agree it could’ve been better but I think in the position they have now they have a better chance

[@carpii4ciclet]

Today, all but all vehicles have been using the same technology for more than 150 years. The only differences between them are the design and the name of the vehicle. Try to evolve in mechanical technology, so everything remains just a bouquet of cut flowers.

[@LPSCaitelyn]

Canoo is different design

[@ECECECECEC]

Sponsored by?

[@omarabdelrahman3739]

Aptera doesn't have the utilitarian functionality of the other 2. I can't pick up a pallet lumber from the hardware store! I can't carry a canoe of kayak.

[@passivlife]

Hi Omar, thanks for the comment. Technically the Aptera has more storage space than the other two but it greatly depends in the setup and what is being transported. Obviously a pickup version of the Canoo or Xbus will have more industrial utility than the Aptera, but then again they will have less weather protected storage space.

[@omarabdelrahman3739]

@@passivlife Thanks, but I need a truck. I hope Canoo can rediscover their original vision.

[@kirksway1]

all this time I thought that the Xbus was a Volkswagon

[@passivlife]

lol. Yes, you can see the german design influence.

[@gliderarts3573]

I made my own Aptera.......they keyed the doorz.....haters..... They thought it was a Tesla..

[@eldridgep2]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the Aptera lacks ground clearance? I'd worry about speed bumps....

[@wflzoom6219]

At 7:24 looks like plenty of clearance to me, the main problem, with low cars is the clearance in the middle of the car, between the front and rear wheels, the Aptera has super clearance there.

[@tims8603]

They're talking about an off-road option so I think the the ground clearance will be fine with the standard vehicle. My Honda Fit is lower to the ground than the Aptera.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

I rode in an alpha prototype which was lower than the production models, and it went over speedbumps just fine. It will be better than my Honda.

[@desertdan100]

It sounds like the Aptera price tag is going to be way too high.

[@passivlife]

That depends on a lot of things. It is by far the most advanced vehicle, for people who appreciate advanced engineering, it is far more appealing than a something like a copy and paste ICE copy which costs the same.

[@teddystoner8288]

Alot of poeple hate my smarts. Then I let them drive them. Soon they are smiling and giggling like I releasd the child in there soul.

[@n.brucenelson5920]

My wife and I have both ridden in an Aptera prototype. 5.5 0-60 times in the "slow" version has that effect!

[@othmanskn]

loss of design control was also the reason Lightyear failed miserably. If they stick to the Cruiser Class Solar Car, they would have better luck. A CD of 0.2 is not good enough for a solar car. Too heavy because of the need for luxury.

[@bonilla2022]

SAD about XBus. I thought they had some good ideas.

[@mp3lwgm]

I can’t believe you can say that “Aptera has delivered all that it has promised” when nothing has been delivered, and a contemporary 100kWh battery which would be needed for the claimed 1000mi range cannot fit in.

[@passivlife]

Thanks for the comment. I understand your point but, so far Aptera are on track. I have seen the videos from other youtubers claiming the 100kwh battery will not fit, but they're total nonsense. Just FUD. There is a lot of empty space in the Aptera, it’s quite a large vehicle, just a difficult shape. Yes, they will have to get creative but even in the first Aptera designs with the 100kwh variant had many different variations of possible places to put the additional batteries. The battery packs can be made in almost any shape or form, not just flat packs. In my opinion, there is zero chance they made it all the way to Gamma without solving this obvious problem first. The 1000-mile variant is arguably their most important variant for publicity. There is no chance, absolute zero chance, that they have not worked out how to fit the 100kwh battery in the vehicle. I get your point, but I stand by mine. So far Aptera are on track to deliver everything they promised and maybe even more.

[@jamesbailey9512]

Where are you getting that claim from?

[@tims8603]

The cutaway views of Aptera show the full battery pack. They're modular. The lower range packs are under the floor and the higher range packs are added behind the seats.

[@zaneenaz4962]

Just to give a perspective of how much more civilized these vw-vans used to be -----) kzbin.info/www/bejne/kJLJdIhuaa5slas

[@Sphinx6x8]

Solar panel does not work on EV. too little energy.

[@passivlife]

I think you mean not worthwhile, like Elon musk commented a few years ago. For an average EV that is not very efficient as they are almost all carbon copies of ICEs at the moment (including Tesla), then yes solar panels provide only a small benefit. However, the more you improve their efficiency the more more beneficial solar panels become. On the extreme end, a hyper-optimized soalr car in the WSC (world solar challenge) can easily travel 500-700km per day just on solar, with passengers (they are forced to stop for safety only). The Aptera is aiming for only 10% of that solar range, which although not easy, is also far from impossible. I hope that helps you understand how your comment (and Elons comment) are very contextual. Its just a question of maths.

[@6.5x55]

Canoo will not survive the year...sadly

[@LPSCaitelyn]

Please go watch their new yt video