Expanse 6x04 'Redoubt' Blind Reaction/Discussion!

[@kirkdarling4120]

Laconia: Admiral Duarte's name first appeared on Bobbie's hand terminal when she was checking out the Martians who had been involved with the Protomolecule project. Duarte's rhetorical skill is so good that he elicited Cara's sympathy for himself even at her own brother's wake. That's how he was able to talk so many Martians into rebelling with him. Maybe the strange dogs are mini-space dragons...hmmmm. The strange dogs look kind of like the mechanical device Miller projected himself into, but that's probably just my imagination. Amos doesn't know anything about the relationship of Naomi with Marco and he knows nothing about Filip. He doesn't have a clue of why Holden would have disarmed the torpedo. As commander, Holden doesn't owe his crew any explanations for his decisions, but as a friend he could at least tell Amos that he has reasons he can't disclose. There is a current prequel game about Drummer's pirate days. Michio showed us why there is a saw on the Swiss Army Knife. In the X-Ray feature, Peaches talks personally to Roci the way Alex did, and it beeps back at her as it did with Alex. Roci's monitors showed ominous health readings.

[@KevinLyda]

10:20 There you go. Naomi. You got her POV. She's an engineer. She wants to fix what's broken. But eventually you learn you can't fix everything and you need to learn to accept that. Naomi tried till she had to swim vacuum to give up. That's above and beyond on a whole new level. I get Holden's POV. But hopefully now that he's heard Naomi and respects what she did and what she's accepted, he can do what needs doing. Well, if Drummer doesn't do it first. In a different rating I'd be hoping to see her feasting on his freshly removed heart, but don't think that would be on offer on an Amazon show!

[@TheCognient]

“Good job cargo”. Great line by the belter pirate after the arm Amputation.

[@tonycamas9747]

A Redoubt is a stronghold, a reinforcement to bolster defense of a strategic military position. In the title of this episode, I presume it refers to Marco's plan to strengthen the Free Navy's position, though it's not entirely explained in this episode what that is. Also, of course, it's a pun. The writers of this show clearly enjoy episode titles that do double or triple duty (think "Safe" or "Home" from Season 2, among many others), so while it's not *really* what the word means, we can also think of "redoubt" as a synonym for "second guessing," of which there is a fair amount in this episode. Pretty clever, those writers.

[@anthonydakhin4225]

"If the universe needs a knife, it makes a knife, [...] If it needs a pirate queen, it makes [Camina Drummer]" - James S.A. Corey, Babylon's Ashes

[@deanadewall8400]

Well, Cara is playing Drummer and the real Pirate Queen (MP), so I'll let it go. 😉

[@DystopiaWithoutNeons]

As a book reader, I see what you did there 👀

[@anthonydakhin4225]

@@DystopiaWithoutNeons I had no choice, Cara Gee is just too good :)

[@Timmayytoo]

Just FYI... the extra story vignettes with each episode were a side project of various members of the cast and crew... I think you guys missed that the last one with Amos and Bobbie was written by Wes Chatham.

[@732ReviewCrew]

We totally did, I think we were so consumed with how much fun that short was! - Joe

[@jamesholland5761]

Great reaction and discussion guys! I think of the strange dogs as worker bees that have been activated once the Protomolicule has been brought through the Laconia ring! Looking forward to the next one!

[@chrism7395]

In the 1730s a Royal Navy surgeon was expected to be able to perform a leg or arm amputation within 2 minutes in order to (hopefully) stop the patient dying from shock. Bearing in mind this was also whilst at sea, under battlefield conditions and without anaesthetic!

[@Dendood]

Mike's Princess Bride moment was hilarious. "I don't think that word means what you think it means..."

[@Dendood]

Have to add, I was schooled on the word watching the episode myself. So I could see where that was headed. -Great reaction. Some pretty cool, animated theories at the end.

[@The_Shaft]

One of your space dog theories was exactly bang on, I won’t say who but it was pretty much note for note.

[@Daneelro]

Indeed, sometimes the boys are pretty astute.

[@tomaszmankowski9103]

I think that a new, great quality is to have a discussion when all of you know nothing about next episodes. Having Joe adding new theories about the show is really good. I hope none of you have seen BSG because I am curious about all of you contributing to a discussion with no prior knowledge about the story. Plus shout out to Mike for actually checking the meaning of the title. Strong female character is kinda overused trope nowadays, especially if you suck at writing a story. So this is the Expanse, just another episode of a sf the show with not so much action and a lot of talking. And here it goes - Naomi, Clarissa, Bobbie, Avasarala, the Martian admiral, Drummer, Michio, Monica, Rosenfeld, even the girl on Laconia, so 9-10 great characters on this list. It is incredible how seemingly effortlessly the writers manage to develop more great female characters that we have in many movies. I just wanted to mention this quality of the Expanse once because it is one of many, many things I love about the series. Michio. I've compared her to Kaylee from Firefly - a gentle soul who is incredible at her stuff, yet... there is the scene. She is saving a life, doesn't panic, does what has to be done and from what I can say about the scene she acts like a combat medic would when a knife has to be used to amputate a limb. Character moments. Such a good episode when it comes to this aspect of the show. That is only possible because characters are written really well. It is like a form of pay off from all this time we've spent watching and learning about characters in the show, with some of them developed in really short time like with Rosenfeld. Marco's demise. I think that what Drummer has done is actually the first major defeat for Inaros faction and the Free Navy. It is not only about losing a supply depot hidden in space, but about exposing him as a 'traitor to my people' the Welwala, which is one of the first words in Belter language we have learnt in the 1st episode. Drummer is not using the term, but she doesn't have to - 'The more you share, the more your bowl will be plentiful' say Belters. Marco Inaros doesn't share, Marco Inaros abandoned his people. Marco Inaros left them to starve and die. Marco Inaros is a Welwala who should be shamed and die empty. Take care!

[@MattNolanCustom]

Great comment overall, but I think you're misinterpreting Welwala based on Miller's simple explanation of the word for Havelock. It doesn't literally mean traitor to my people, but it means Earth or inner planets lover / collaborator. The Wel part comes from gravity well. So, while Marco is indeed a traitor to his people, he is not at all a Welwala.

[@tomaszmankowski9103]

@@MattNolanCustom Thanks for explaining the wider meaning of the word. I have not read the books because I didn't consider the tv show as finished. I am only now going to read the Dragon Tooth series of comic books. I wonder though if in the show alone do we actually have a different meaning of the word? I recall the episode of season 2 (7th?), when the Belters were arguing what to do with the Earth's missiles the Tycho crew have captured. If I am not mistaken when Anderson Dawes said about those who do not share to 'make the bowl plentiful' other Belters have used the term Welwala in response. Was it supposed to mean the Inners who do not share beacuse they are Inners, so greedy etc or also those Belters who do not share and i.e. by this act are becoming like Inners?

[@MattNolanCustom]

@@tomaszmankowski9103 the Belter patois in the books is different to that in the TV show, more a clumsy fusion of French and German. For the TV show they hired a real linguist to conjure up a future fusion language and grammar made from lots of different present day languages. But, yes, I think Welwala can be anyone behaving like an Earther, so maybe Marco can be seen in this light due to his selfishness, but I still don't think it would be the right word to use here.

[@tomaszmankowski9103]

@@MattNolanCustom Ok, I understand this point of view. I appreciate it especially since I thought about using the term welwala while writing my comment. It was interesting to read. Thanks!

[@corgiluver9718]

Great discussion, theories. So much to like in this episode with Drummer's "Live shamed and die empty" speech being my favorite part. Drummer is so bad ass with such angry conviction. Contrast that with Filip's angry speech afterwards which to me seems rooted more in an emotional confusion, like if he doesn't believe in Marco's actions than everything he's done is terrible. And while the action on the supply depot was great (that amputation was brutal), the many conversations in the episode were even better.

[@732ReviewCrew]

It’s definitely up there in my top 10 favorite quotes of the series! - Joe

[@jubronaljoan]

The 'strange dogs' get a fuller explanation in the Expanse novella Strange Dogs and play a role in the final three books too.They have a specific purpose.

[@CrashCraftLabs]

hahaha i thought the same thing... . . . when she woke up i was all "oh know not the coffee machine!" lol

[@blackgirlcouchreviews]

Holden would have put her on the float just for a couple of hours lol until he calms down

[@Sinewmire]

So, there's a lot of condensing of Free Navy characters in these last episodes, presumably to make them a bit more immediate and understandable. Marco's second in command, Rosenfeld, in the books is one of Marco's council of OPA faction leaders, along with Anderson Dawes. Rosenfeld is the numbers guy, and he's constantly warning Marco that the asteroids were a failure - they were supposed to *all* hit and devastate earth and force them to surrender. The Belt was about 3 years away from starvation, and that's if the Earth surrenders *now*. Marco never did like the mundane reality of the war, or being reminded that his "victories" were mostly half victories, or reframed defeats. Notice what Marco does every time there's a setback - he either reframes it, or blames someone else. It's never his fault, never his responsibility and so he never "loses".

[@732ReviewCrew]

Wow the books add a lot! Glad we're going to be starting them. There was an emphasis that Marco was amazing with words, turning defeat into victory is his best example

[@Sinewmire]

@@732ReviewCrew I always prefer to watch a film/show, and then read the books! Instead of a show failing to live up to a book, you get extra content for a great show!

[@Dene181]

"I love you, I'm so sorry" That was a damn crazy great moment for a character that mainly fucked up until now. 👌 On the other hand (😁) Drummer is just such a badass! 👀 The theories about Laconia are interesting.

[@KevinLyda]

Tied to your post-show discussion, that's an interesting list to make. Including the last three books (so you'll have to read those first), what order do our main characters die: Amos, Avasarala, Bobbi, Clarissa, Holden, Naomi - and include book Alex. Also good to consider in such a list is if Julie and Miller are dead. And, if not, is there a way they could be.

[@RocketSurgn_]

Thank you for looking up redoubt, haha. It was… a bit painful…

[@magurgle]

Clarissa's salt cravings are a side effect of her implant. I forget if it was shown yet, but even when it is it is only a line of text on a screen for a second and it's very easy to miss. Its covered in the books more.

[@kirkdarling4120]

It shows subtly and quickly in the Peaches X-Ray feature, too.

[@732ReviewCrew]

Makes sense I was wondering that as her gland replaced involves salt!!

[@The_Shaft]

I think it’s shown next episode mostly

[@davidbergfors6820]

I thought "the big Ship" in orbit around Laconia was a Shipyard/fabrication facility

[@dmann05]

How would you know that? Has the show ever told us what it is?

[@davidbergfors6820]

@@dmann05 it has not. This is/was my theory at this point. It was a while ago I watched it myself, but I think I based it on context clues.

[@SciFiCatGuy]

I named my cat Ser Lucky Earther Dude, after Game of Thrones, The Expanse, and The Big Lebowski. 😉

[@wagnarokkr]

18:52 remember that broken pipe

[@josephkrengel]

(Not a spoiler) The driver does get severely punished... but you'll need to read book 8 to understand what really happens to him.

[@MattNolanCustom]

I think it is heard in background dialog either this ep or the previous one that the driver will face a firing squad, also basically what Sauveterre was saying to Babbage as the Barkeith had its, umm, interesting ring transit. I'm sure there's more interesting stuff in Book 8, but I don't think it is alluded to here in the TV show nor in the Strange Dogs novella.

[@josephkrengel]

@@MattNolanCustom To the best of my recollection, "what do you think" is all that's said about the driver in the show.

[@mufana1]

@@josephkrengel Followed by "one of the soldiers was talking about a firing squad".

[@blackgirlcouchreviews]

Man I would have LOVED to see how they punish on Laconia lol

[@josephkrengel]

@@blackgirlcouchreviews fwiw, it's pretty easy to pick up the books at #7. By that point most of the characters in the earlier books who are fundamentally different than the show are out of the story.

[@Mannchini]

I hate hate hate the interaction between Amos and Holden on the hull of the ship as it’s completely out of character for Holden and just an attempt to create some drama in the show. In the book Holden is straight with Amos. “I couldn’t work out the implications of killing Naomi’s son in that moment” And Amos being Amos says “Okay, but you need to sort this with Naomi”. It’s so great and shows how far they’ve come in their relationship and we lost that for some cheap argument.

[@LeeCarlson]

re·doubt /rəˈdout/ noun MILITARY a temporary or supplementary fortification, typically square or polygonal and without flanking defenses.