Expect Pushback When you Platform Dangerous Teachers

Ruslan recently had controversial pastor Joel Webbon on his podcast and instead of talking about the controversy of Joel's teachings, they had a conversation about postmillennialism and saved all the important topics for his Patreon.
#joelwebbon #rightresponseministries #patriarchy

[@kevinjackson4933]

This kind of 'dangerous' shaming and cultish fear of engaging with viewpoints is very non-masculine. If you cant talk to someone like Webbon and come out making a better impression on a majority of the audience, then that is the problem. Trying to prevent adult Christians from even seeing him by shaming those who do isnt very Christ-like imo

[@Underdogtheology]

It’s not that he had him on, it’s that he had him on and didn’t talk about any of the controversial stuff which would leave the audience with a skewed impression.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

@@Underdogtheology Right on. Hiding Joel's hot takes behind a paywall is misleading at best. Joel says that stuff for free on his channel, such as women shouldn't vote, women shouldn't learn theology from other women, and women shouldn't use polemical language in public when criticizing men.

[@paulvoit5610]

Saying 'non-masculine' is itself not very masculine. Lol.

[@tangledcharlotte]

I found this late because I was checking out Webbon after the "I don't let my wife read anything without my permission" clip. I'm glad you don't listen to the "debate me" bros. Some people just need to be exposed, not given a platform.

[@KyleKringle]

Not a Calvinist, in fact I'm privately a pretty avid anti-Calvinismist, but I am *so grateful* that you've called this man's deeper controversies to attention. Sick burn to refuse to call his channel a ministry because indeed it is not. For him to upload his sermons in the same space as his podcasts on lamenting the culture and other pastors tells me that he values only his thoughts--not his actual congregation. "The Lost Virtue of Hatred," one of his podcast titles, tells you pretty much all you need to know about his rhetoric and approach. It's unbecoming and beyond reproach for a Pastor. I think his Calvinism makes his authoritarianism far worse, but it's good to see other Reformed brethren calling this tyrannical ideology out.

[@justchilling704]

I completely agree 100% well said.

[@chriskennedy8514]

Serious question. What’s dangerous about Joel Webbon?

[@ThisisPam]

In case you haven’t had a chance to research, here’s a couple of examples: 1. He believes men are hierarchical over women in family, church, and society. He does not let his wife read books without permission in case she “surpasses him”. 2. He is an avid Doug Wilson disciple. Parrots everything Doug says. DW holds to Federal Vision, has encouraged a congregant to marry a convicted pedophile, and has strange ideas about faith and justification. 3. Doesn’t believe women should vote. 4. He’s a Christian Nationalist 5. Supports and makes excuses for Mark Driscoll. 6. Believes there is no excuse for any able bodied person to be poor in America, and if they are, it’s laziness or God’s judgment. 7. American founders are not to blame for slavery because they didn’t go to Africa to kidnap slaves, they just bought them in America. Slavery isn’t wrong in and of itself, basically because the Bible talks about slavery (says Joel) I could go on but these are the top issues that come to mind. You can easily prove the above by listening to JW podcasts or checking out reviews and resources online.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

To sum up, he promotes legalism.

[@Underdogtheology]

I mean, a heck of a lot Chris.

[@LampWaters]

The avenue joel follows historically has caused lots of death amoung Christian brothers in the past. We have our bill of rights specifically because theonomists would kill other Christians not compliant with their government views. Rhode Island exists because they fled bloody persecution of theonomists

[@AllforOne_OneforAll1689]

How does he support legalism?

[@ThomScott]

Since we are told to "submit therefore one to another, I'd love to know how Joel submits to his wife. I'd cut Ruslan a little break. I saw the episode and I think he handled it well.

[@oncesavedalways]

Easy to pardon Ruslan. But you take issue with mutual submission??

[@ForwardTalk]

Joel Webbon is great. Have Joel on and push back in person. I am certain Joel would love to do that. Joel is spot on on his eschatology. And having someone on your show is not an endorsement.

[@heathersnyder8789]

Joel Webbon has said that men make the world and women let us look at them naked. He believes that all women are more easily deceived because of Eve without taking the responsibility of Adam sinning willfully which would make all men more deliberately disobedient to God. Furthermore, he told his wife he didn’t want her to read a certain book because he didn’t want her to surpass him. This screams insecurity, and I will pray for him.

[@zacharymcleod8262]

Joel Webbon is solid.

[@quix66hiya22]

@@zacharymcleod8262 he’s too close to racist for me.

[@joshirwin5245]

@@heathersnyder8789 Soooo... You dislike him because he is biblical?

[@heathersnyder8789]

@@joshirwin5245 Pastor Webbon is my brother in Christ. I don’t know him, however, when a man says comments like men build the world and women let us look at them naked is a skewed view of women that is not biblical. One can believe in Christ and still say messed up things that are not biblical.

[@joeyrose1245]

I really want to like Joel Webbon but he’s so heavily influenced by Doug Wilson. If Joel could detach himself from Doug Wilson there might be a chance he could right himself. As for Ruslan, he pushes the charismatic stuff too much for me.

[@joshirwin5245]

You are overtly anti Doug Wilson.. I saw some of your other comments about a pastor you had who you esteem as like Doug Wilson. Is it possible you are carrying baggage that is skewing your view of Doug? What are your criticisms against Doug? Theonomy? (this isn't a foreign concept in Christendom--only in our modern secular society and church history revisionism)

[@jahnvantuttlesma8215]

@@joshirwin5245 I mean, Doug is FV. That in itself should be enough for anyone to distance themselves from.

[@joshirwin5245]

@@jahnvantuttlesma8215 I get it. But I can reject FV and still appreciate Doug Wilson’s work in so many other areas. Reforming marriage was a wonderful book of his I read as a new husband. Future Men is a great book for raising boys, his commentary on Revelation. And the amount of truth he speaks into the culture is incredible. So yeah, I could nitpick him regarding his stance on baptism, but that would be truly missing the forest for the the trees. Recognize the time we are in. We have much bigger fish to fry.

[@jahnvantuttlesma8215]

@@joshirwin5245 I get your sentiment, but somethings can't be compromised. If other aspects of Wilson's teachings still have value for you fair enough as long as you can ascertain his strengths and shortcomings.

[@Shadow-Man-vz8sv]

Love Joel Webbon. The man is a based Chad, and not some weak little man-boy who compromises with the world.

[@Underdogtheology]

Use adult language please.

[@unapologeticbeliever]

@@Underdogtheology I was literally chuckling at this sentence!!!!

[@pearcejayw]

​@@UnderdogtheologyFR LOL

[@christfollowerrenee556]

You should stay a shadow

[@sharonberry1958]

Chad? Chad? Yuck.

[@JosiahR1]

Interesting. From the little I’ve listened to from JW I like him 🤷🏻‍♂️ he seems more in my ‘camp’ if I want to use that language in regards to presup, Theonomic etc

[@Underdogtheology]

Not trying to sound condescending, but look deeper.

[@cm5394]

Joel is excellent. In every comment on here when someone’s asks why he’s problematic, you say to google him and why he’s controversial. I don’t care at all what google has to say about that, many people misrepresent Joel, and at the end of the day Christianity is controversial. Also, every single popular Christian KZbinr does try to have some type of entertainment on their channel, it’s not just a straightforward lecture.

[@joshirwin5245]

Agreed... The only criticism I can find on him is the whole "he wouldn't let his wife read a book about pedobaptism". So basically, people don't like him because he is not a feminist/egalitarian/complimentarian. In other words, people don't like him because he is biblical.

[@bruhmingo]

The only danger here is you

[@SLAY_DANCING]

Would love to see Tim Whitaker and Joel Webbon debate. To extreme opposites, who both rub me the wrong way. 😂

[@DCard-yw6ml]

I agree that Ruslan should not platform Joel Webbon. Very irresponsible of Ruslan.

[@Mr.MacMan]

I don’t know much of Joel. What is bad about him?

[@markg890]

@@Mr.MacMan He's a misogynistic Christian nationalist. Cavorts with D Wilson. Apologizes for slavery. But mostly he seethes with pride and anger.

[@Deuteronomy649]

@@Mr.MacManwell if a person believes that women need to wear head coverings, that they shouldn’t be allowed to vote, that their husbands need to vet what they read, that Americans shouldn’t regret African American slavery because slave traders only bought slaves from African traders and didn’t do the actual kidnapping, then he’s their guy. I’m probably forgetting some things, but these are some of the major concerns people have with him.

[@Mr.MacMan]

@@Deuteronomy649 isn’t head covering biblical?

[@markg890]

@@Mr.MacMan In the context of everything else he believes, who cares?

[@r.j.miller]

Dean’s channel has been a safe place for me, as a women who was in a “Christian” environment as JW. The destruction he and Ruslan are doing is exponential. I appreciate so much that Dean is calling out the destruction these “leaders” are saying. I don’t see any redemption from a “everyday” evangelical platforming someone who who has such a low view of minimum 50% of the “Image Bears of God” on earth today. If you took away the assumption that this was a “bible believing Christian”…could you confuse a JW type with a leader from Saudi Arabia, defending sharia law? If even just kinda…I personally think Christians should run and condemn as Dean has done. If this was set up as an convention with someone from a false religion…this would be a different conversation. Nothing I’ve heard from JW says he agrees with the fundamentals of Christianity. I would say the same of MoscowUSA too.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

When Joel introduces himself in some of his own videos, listen to all the labels he has. "Presuppositional, Kuyperian, Patriarchal, Christian Nationalist..." While labels are helpful at times, when I hear his list, I always think, "Christian is enough." When he names the church he pastors, we get that he purports to come from a Reformed Baptist point of view. Regardless of all those labels, we can take what he teaches, compare it to the Scriptures, and see if these things are so.

[@Disciple-ofChrist]

​@@TheMaineSurveyorAs Rachel N. Stephens of 'Crack Your Bible' once said, use your discernment. Chew up the meat & spit out the bones. 😅

[@dougdozier8782]

I actually enjoyed this interview from Ruslan. That is the best I've heard from Joel on Postmill. Very informative. Good stuff

[@Ransetsu]

Joel is great!

[@crazypsychnurse9493]

Absolutely! If it makes a person uncomfortable , that person needs a gut check! Ruslan, on the other hand, if a person is subscribed to him, do like this creator (whoever he is) and unsub!!! Quickly!!

[@joshs8704]

I don't see what's wrong with dealing with Joel's views on eschatology. It was a helpful point of view. We should be able to isolate that position, not having to agree with all else.

[@markg890]

If the best representative of a view on eschatology I can find believes women shouldn't vote or choose their own reading material, I don't really care to explore that eschatological view.

[@joshs8704]

Well I don't know if he's the best and judging a doctrine based on the characteristics and other beliefs of ONE of it's adherents doesn't make much sense. I'm not a fan of the many Calvinists come across, but I'm starting to appreciate it's biblical merit

[@Underdogtheology]

It’s fine to do that, but don’t hide the controversial stuff while you do it.

[@Disciple-ofChrist]

I like Ruslan. I don't know about the other guy. He literally has a "hide your kids, hide your wife" audio that he plays when it's not kid-friendly content.

[@ChurchinthewildTX]

its about the platform for Ruslan.... 💰

[@brethagan798]

Ruslan has had a few individuals on that have been questionable at best and didnt rebuke any ideas that they threw around that didnt line up with scripture. Ruslan himself believes in some stuff thats not good either. Just gotta be disncerning with whoever you watch.

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

Indeed. I can't give a blanket endorsement of any pastor I've seen online. We must look at what these people teach and search the Scriptures to see if these things are so.

[@johnswansen192]

@@TheMaineSurveyor beginning to agree with you. Just watched someone who is teaching how to study the bible. What he said was not necessarily wrong. But he quoted scripture incorrectly. And he tries to hook people with a tantalizing lead in. You must check on everyone you see or hear. What does the Bible actually say.

[@connorhart2832]

I genuinely do not know why Joel’s ministry is bad. Would you point me in the right direction of some sources that are either better or that point out his errors?

[@Underdogtheology]

I mean google his name and controversy, but I’ll be doing a profile on each one of the Christendom 2.0 speakers soon.

[@fndrr42]

I couldn’t believe it either

[@oncesavedalways]

Ruslan will do anything for a dollar. It’s all about clickbait and entertainment. Dude has zero depth.

[@mostreal907]

So as some one on Ruslan’s Patreon. I didn’t see a single comment who agreed with Joel and his view that women shouldn’t vote. But I will say Ruslan channel subscribers are a mix big of ideologies and theologies. Which for a channel if chat size makes sense. I joined Ruslans channel when he had like 20k subscribers. We use to text a lot. And I will say he has become more red pill and more conservative. Seems like a lot of people did after the pandemic from what people feel were government overreach. Not sure if the same thing happened in Canada

[@Underdogtheology]

I found a lot of his content entertaining last year, I didn’t really care about his theological stances because I didn’t consider him a theologian but more of a entertaining personality, but there has been a real change in his content over the last 6 months where he’s taken bolder stances on theology and now having several troubling theologians/pastors on his channel without pushing back (at least on the main channel) is too far for me. I think he’s dangerous.

[@Star-dj1kw]

Thank you for filling us in. Wowsers!! That Webbon guy is more than a fundamental; he is an extremist. I wouldn't be surprised if he has mental health problems that hype up his paranoia and control type dogma

[@johnswansen192]

@@Underdogtheology ❤

[@unapologeticbeliever]

The minute you said "Isaiah Salvador" - I get it now. Thank you.

[@JonathanBell-re1di]

I think you need to quit hating I don’t like the guy either but doesn’t mean he is not bringing something to the table. I never heard of you but I’m sure your theology is flawed too! So is mine! Have you ever conversed with him or tried to? Probably not you are just pushing your flawed theology with no examination.

[@rjhall5712]

*New Subscriber * ... i once Subscribed to Joel's content, he comes off as being purposely controversial, and a bit arrogant . I ended leaving his channel. You mentioned you dont really do quests , but i was wondering if you would consider interviewing authors of newly published book , foe example I recently purchased a book "SPURGEON'S FORGOTTEN SABBATARIANISIM" by Branden Rhea after listening to a podcast concerning the book and subject matter

[@Underdogtheology]

Appreciate the question. Seems to be a lot of folks who want interviews. I’m mulling it over right now.

[@Disciple-ofChrist]

We don't all agree. I don't think anybody has it down 100%!

[@dillonpeters2729]

2.4k views, 64 comments, only 44 likes. Wish I could see the ratio on this!

[@milesnewman-ro8yg]

6 mins of my life I will never get back! What was the point in this video but Joel bad Ruslan bad me good! 🤦🏻‍♂️ if you are going to critical analysis on anyone make sure you write it out first and read over it so you don’t sound like this guy!

[@zacharymcleod8262]

Debate him, then. This was a 9 minute video with zero substance in which you signal your moral superiority to him the entire time by talking about him like he’s the wicked witch of the west. What you just did in this video was not how a Christian man should conduct himself. You’re sitting there slandering him without even attempting to interact with his views. Think he’s wrong on his view on the 19th amendment? Cool, why don’t you say why, then? I can’t take you seriously, brother, when as far as I can tell, Webbon knows why he believes what he believes, and you just seem to not like it, yet offer no alternative. This was all emotion and no substance.

[@joshirwin5245]

This is the number one comment in this thread

[@markg890]

JW was talking very differently? You mean he didn't say that the 19th amendment was a mistake while he was on? If you look at his trajectory, it's hard to get away from how profoundly the pandemic radicalized him in ways that are not conducive to Christian grace and love. Edit: Saw he did sneak that in. For clarification, JW thinks women shouldn't vote because he blames them for Roe. Oh, he has some theological construction around this belief, but the core of it is his political radicalization. The problem, like you point out, is that you can find out what JW believes for free. But then you're doing it on his turf, surrounded by his supporters, interviewed by and interviewing his friends (like Dale and even DW). It's the height of irresponsibility to expose his viewers/followers to a dangerous figure in this manner.

[@louispittman7367]

Revelation is clear about anyone adding to or taking away from it. That's why preterists turn it into allegory so they can input their opinions in place of God's Word. All preterists are dangerous to be involved with period.

[@joshirwin5245]

Interesting take. So you believe that every single thing in Revelation is to be taken entirely literally?

[@justchilling704]

@@joshirwin5245People like Op are barely worth humoring such blatant presumptive ignorance is irritating.

[@joshirwin5245]

@@justchilling704 true. It's just humorous how Dispy's always pull the "literalism" card when it's convenient but don't use the same hermeneutic across the board.

[@justchilling704]

@@joshirwin5245 You’re very much so correct.

[@johnswansen192]

I had originally subscribed to Ruslan. But some of his comments especially the ones about Cenk Uygur of TYT and his recent guests have turn me off.

[@Star-dj1kw]

Umm... Job???

[@TheMaineSurveyor]

Bingo! And then there's Jesus' promise that we will always have the poor with us. And then there's the book of James, among others.

[@travissharon1536]

If we don't platform bad ideas, then they can't be exposed. I disagree with the premise.

[@Underdogtheology]

You don’t have to platform bad ideas in order to expose them.

[@travissharon1536]

@@Underdogtheology We should stand against bad ideas, but if we don't let the people presenting them express them, we will almost 100% of the time strawman them, and then make them stronger, because the people who are convinced, see right through our fallacies.

[@thatchurchguyshandle]

Ruslan was mad that Kanye platformed Nick Fuentes, so I know he understands how platforming someone works. Looks super hypocritical on his part

[@thatchurchguyshandle]

Totally agree, but the same principal applies here. It's hypocritical nonetheless@@ravissary79

[@TheRancherAndTheWife]

Joel Webbon’s ministry is awesome. You should have him on.

[@Underdogtheology]

Pass

[@joshirwin5245]

@@Underdogtheology Kind of cowardly to take passing shots at someone and refuse to engage with them. That's leftist tactics

[@sivadatokad8168]

If you were a hard core Calvinist you would be on board with Christian nationalism. Go read Calvin 😂

[@Underdogtheology]

A Calvinist doesn’t have to agree with Calvin in everything, you get that right?