So You Want To Be an Indie - How to Start an Indie Game Studio - Extra Credits

Working on your own game ideas can be incredibly rewarding, but if you don't understand the risks that come with being indie, you might not break even on your costs or gain any visibility.
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(Original air date: July 31, 2013)
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♪ Intro Music: "Penguin Cap" by CarboHydroM
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♪ Outro Music: "Lullaby of Flame" by DDRKirby(ISQ)
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[@stardust-reverie]

August 2013: "Getting on Steam doesn't just happen." March 2017: just fill out this paperwork, give us some money, set up your store page and send us a build and you're set to release around this time next month

[@MrFirecasters]

It's a good think really! Granted you get a lot of mediocre stuff but it also doesn't hold back the good stuff which then has the opportunity to get publicity!

[@jellohunter7981]

Hmm....

[@cebi3103]

why is "Sex with Stalin" even a thing on steam

[@andersonrobotics5608]

@@cebi3103 what do you mean there are other games on steam

[@bamfyu]

@@cebi3103 wtf?! (what the fish?!)

[@theoddisee675]

"DON'T LOOK AT MY AAAART" Hey I don't remember giving you guys permission to use my likeness

[@11nephilim]

"Getting on steam doesn't just *happen*" Ahhh... *looks at Jim Sterling's channel*... if only that were still true.

[@funnywarnerbox300]

11nephilim What? Did that guy put a crappy videogame on Steam or something?

[@BalloonBats]

funnywarnerbox300 With Steam Greenlight, lots of crappy games got onto steam and Jim Sterling makes videos of these crappy games.

[@mlgpro2241]

***** pills.

[@The_gaming_archaeologist]

Lol, indeed. If anything it makes me feel confident that I could be a good game designer as long as I work hard and don't do all the really shady stuff people like Digital Homicide keep doing. Even if Jim said what I made was a piece of shit I'd take it on the nose instead of resulting to intimidation, threats of phantom lawsuits or attempt to block his review. Hell, some people make a living off playing shit games like Jim and Pewdie pie.

[@AI-Consultant]

+PerfectPencil you sound like you do things solo, without a smart creative team to market and think out of the box.

[@undauntedExpounder]

My favorite part about the treasure trove of the Extra Credits library is the increcible sense of nostalgia of going back to a particular topic, and watching the team evolve and grow.. I'm so proud of EC, and their diversity of content. I hope to emulate this to a degree as I make the leap into actually making and releasing software. Keep up the good work EC!

[@user-kf3fs2sz2d]

"In case of legal issue break glass" And he looks all pissed caged up in there like a sealed God of War in a can, ready to break out and raise hell in the courtroom I laughed

[@dustyrhodes281]

"they should probably just give up on that dream" Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine?

[@Peteman]

I wish my boss at my old company saw this and took it to heart.

[@legocontrollerjr]

"Hire a lawyer" Thank god three of my relatives know a lot about law.

[@legocontrollerjr]

Steve Zero lmao

[@galaxyn0va392]

Well, looks like reality ruined my dream. I wont stop though.

[@dhruvpatel6858]

+krobygaming alexander same here.

[@galaxyn0va392]

YES

[@TheRayny]

+Galaxyn0va 3 how did it go?

[@galaxyn0va392]

working on a 2d game project. Its going good

[@galaxyn0va392]

basicly and adventure fighting game. Its reletivly simple but its just the start of something bigger

[@BenRangel]

5 general rules for new developers working on their first projects: 1. Forget about making a great first game. Most new projects never finish cause the scope was too big. Make a really small first game that actually works. Just finish SOMETHING and learn from it. 2. Do not ask "What features can I add to make the game better", ask instead "What features can I *remove* to make the game more streamlined and more realistic to develop" 3. Never say "I'm almost done" and start relaxing. 90% of the development time will be spent doing the final 10% of the work. 4. As a new dev working with unfamiliar tech, assume your original estimations will be off by about 3 times on average. Seriously. 5. You WILL hate your first game when you look back on it years later. (If you didn't - you wouldn't have grown as a developer) The important thing is that you finished your first game at all.

[@kuntowijoyokuntowijoyo7258]

thanks for your advice.. I'm new solo indie developer.. I try to make simple android game.. and will focus on simple games.. I've published 2 games on android.. and now the big obstacle is how to introduce my game.. my games is free but hundreds even thousands of new game published on play store.. so very difficult to people to "see" my game.. now I think promote games is harder than make a game :( do you have advice about how to introduce new game?

[@ragegoria]

those are some great advices, especially the first one, stack up experiences so you could make better ones in the future, and you can always like update and fix your first game with those experiences you've gained, and i'm eager to hear your answer on kuntowijoyo's question, that question got my attention.

[@roguedogx]

why do I get the impression this is from personal experience?

[@BenRangel]

xYuusha ___ 10. if you are a new developer, do not even think about making an online rpg

[@ragegoria]

xYuusha ___ no need to call him an idiot, that's just uncalled for, i do know what he meant by that, though. trying to keep servers alive are just expensive and will be hard to those who are new or without experience, that is just my opinion though.

[@zanecross7018]

I'm just going to throw this out there, as an indie game developer, there is a lot more that goes into making a game then you probably think. Game development is the hardest type of art there is. Why, you ask? Because making a game is not an art, it's a plethora of different kinds of art all rolled into one. Of course, the big three are: -Visual art, be it 3D or 2D -Programming -Music and Sound Ok, so you have three kinds of art there, right? Not too difficult, right? Ok, let me revise that list to show what you have to put into each: -Visual art -Hundreds of different textures and or tiles -Character animations and or models -Backgrounds, be it a skybox or for parallax scrolling -Visual effects for actions -Programming -A well programed game engine, whether you make it from scratch or use one from a company -Really fun and well programed mechanics -Display methods -If not using a particular engine, then you need very good collision detection -Music and Sounds -A really good soundtrack, be it ambient or a pumping action sound. You may need anywhere from just 2 or 3 tracks but you may need 10 or even 20. Mostly depends on the size of the game. -A sound for EVERYTHING. Every single action or event in the game will need some kind of sound effect. -Ambient background noises. This includes things like birds chirping in the trees, rushing water, etc. Still look easy? Sadly, this list is not even complete as there is much more that generally goes into making a game. But even when you finish it, you still have one more obstacle. Namely, other people. There are people who, while maybe the game has amazing music, great gameplay, and epic pixel art, they will only see one thing. The pixel art. And there will be trolls. Lots of them. And all of them will be filled with anger and will make comments like: "Ths gme sux", or you may get "Supid pxl atr! No oen liks tht! Lern to drw!". There will be a lot of that. And these kind of things, poorly typed as they are, can and do hurt and irritate. While I am not trying to discourage people from making a game, I am just trying to make sure people know what they are getting into first. In fact, I highly recommend attempting to make a game, as it is a great learning experience. But it is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. So before jumping into a project headstrong and then just giving up because the work piles up way to high, consider the amount of work that goes into it. Also, as to the trolls, think twice before typing! Please! There is nothing that will take the wind out of a game developer's sails faster.

[@goofybutserious4807]

Pfft I'm more scared of copyright laws than I am of trolls. LOL

[@char5285]

I have Ideas in my head for the visual art and music for the game I wanna make. the programming is what scares me lol

[@Sapheiorus]

Touhou in my Extra Credit, YESSSSS!!! (Touhou is an amazing example of an indie video game series that exploded with a fandom that few fandoms of anything similar can match in creativity, longevity, and enthusiasm that never weakens. What a fitting ending piece for this episode!)

[@tehpson]

it is hard to work on a zero dollar budget

[@0Quiwi0]

Yeah you need an amazing concept for a game if you want to make them for shoelace budget. It does happen. Quite a lot actually. Still Kickstarter can get you a decent budget if people like your idea, or you can do it as a hobby on the side with free tools. None of that will work unless your idea is great as there is about billlion "who cares" indie games coming up this year. You need something that stands out. Like Undertale or To the Moon. Those were made with next to no budget (ok Undertale got a great Kickstarter backing but that just means people liked the concept).

[@MaxGaming-tx8tg]

i do it as a hobby i dont wish for a single penny i can get my lazy ass out side and get a job so i can pay for the game tools!

[@tehpson]

+MaxGaming im in school

[@MaxGaming-tx8tg]

+tehpson just get the free version of game maker or if your 13 get a newspaper job I can help you with anything you need on there

[@tehpson]

im just started gymnasium(? maby wrong word) /w gamemaking now so I gonna woek a lot /w unity now

[@celry]

I've just finished my first year of university and the more I think about it the more sure I am about wanting to be in the game industry, even with all the struggles explained. I've done a bit of everything... art, music, coding, writing/design (and liked it of course) and i just want to be able to put out my own creations, direct something, make something great... I'm also going into computer science and business so if it doesn't work out there are still other occupations left over. I hope a few years or more down the line I can come back to this and have made it. Hopefully everyone else in the comments will have too. :)

[@antonb5504]

I relate to this in so many ways. How’s it going? You kept working on your dream?

[@castonyoung7514]

10 years ago I was watching Extra Credits, and just going into university. Well, I graduated in 2019 with the start of a game as a capstone project, but since then I've still never finished anything, or have anything to show. But it sounds like you should be getting out of University yourself right now, what have you got?

[@nemulovesyou]

Woah, a mix of lullaby of deserted hell at the end. That's new.

[@118Cheeseoid]

everytime i try to learn about coding and programming languages, i always find myself staggering through countless hours of online video footage, and getting nearly no results :c gaming fascinates me, and Ive tried for the last 5 years (im currently 16 years old) to learn the inner workings of it. alot of my friends have grasped it eawsily and id love to work with them in creating an indie game. Not for profit, but just for the absolute blast of a time i will have seeing our project grow.

[@EmmisonMike]

"war chest" is something i need to incorporate into my daily lexicon

[@boppopolis]

I'm 12 right now, and I've been really interested in creating games for a while, I went to a camp and i learned how to write simple code using Scratch, I'm now very interested in trying to use something more serious like unity, It makes me really happy to see someone saying age doesn't matter, thank you.

[@TGameDev]

"what it must not be is 25 minutes of meh" is it bad that my immediate thoughts went to "ah, rpg maker games"

[@serslothic7559]

Haha, right thoo

[@linky0064]

You guys literally have the best selection of music remixes for your outros ever.

[@The_gaming_archaeologist]

These videos often depress me and make me feel I could never be a game designer.

[@lauramarx8098]

+Aron Marczylo oh no, I don't think it's meant that way. This video is moreso for people who are already designers who are looking to start their own independent studio (ie., business!). You don't need money and a team to make videogames!

[@The_gaming_archaeologist]

I would say that's the truest for programs like RPG Maker as you get a whole bunch of assets for background, characters, monsters, systems and so on.

[@TheBboingBboing]

+Aron Marczylo Think of it as a challenge! The fact that these videos "depress" you means that they don't sugar coat things and talk about the positives and more importantly the negatives so that you are equipped with dealing with potential issues :-)

[@PanjaRoseGold]

+Aron Marczylo not every indie game needs to be famous to be good. some of the best games i've played are hidden gems. and it's not impossible, but don't feel down when your game doesn't succeed. usually small communities are the most passionate.

[@The_gaming_archaeologist]

Casey Anderson certainly true...I played Gemini Rue and was very surprised by it. Since then I've become a fan of the company and have been telling people about that game and even gifting it to friends on special occassions like birthdays and that, but only if they like point-and-click adventure games with such a interesting narrative.

[@EmilXOM]

I have a couple of friends who are studying programming and game design, so I often send them these videos as a help. They have a lot of ideas, but they lack focus and actual knowledge on how to make a game right. They like to stay in their comfort zones a lot. So I feel like watching these videos will really help them get out of their comfort zones and improve themselves

[@mycollegeshirt]

as an indie game dev this is hysterically accurate, ahh my frist project

[@millennialboomer6780]

Out of curiosity, what games have you made? I'm always looking for new games and companies to try out.

[@scroptels]

I saw you in a Klonoa related video and I was not expecting at all to find you here. It's amazing when that low percent of probability suddenly becomes reality. It motivates me.

[@EagleUnleashed]

these guys deserve so much more of what they give to their community

[@netyimeni169]

F for indie devs who fall . most of us will lie in this great mountain of corpses , but we must continue on the path to our dreams, comrades.

[@aboody006]

"Make your project achievable" Everything is fucking achievable if you put your mind to it.

[@Obbliteration]

+ABOODY Really? Could one person develop a game like skyrim?

[@aboody006]

Obbliteration Yes. True it would be hard, But there are many things you can do to simplify things, For example, Using procedural generation for vegetation, water, stone and rocks, And hand placing the towns. I doubt Bethesda really hand placed each individual tree and plant in the whole world. And the towns are not dynamic, You don't just walk in which means it's a different level than the world level, Because it needs to load. So yea, It would be very achievable.

[@nVinter]

+ABOODY A single man created Stardew Valley.. a 2d harvest moon game. Took the guy 4 years.

[@H3atmiser]

+ABOODY I mean this with no disrespect, but you're delusional.

[@aboody006]

Obbliteration Math is just that, Math, I can tell you that building a car in 1920 takes a year, But now it takes 3 months.. It's all relative. I built an AAA quality game engine from scratch in just a couple of months. It's got everything a game engine needs, A physics engine, Terrain engine, Vegetation engine, Custom engine tools, Custom scripting languages, And JavaScript scripting, A custom animation filetype that is super lightweight and compact, A simple image format that is 3 times faster than generic formats, A mesh data format that is both lightweight and super fast to upload to gpu, All done in a matter of milliseconds. I've done enough work that would take a team more than 3 years to finish, I've also redone the engine several times, And rewrote it in several different languages. I don't think I'm delusional, Just because some guy made a 2D game in 4 years doesn't mean I'm like him, Maybe he was learning, Maybe he was a slow learner, Maybe he did not have a specific goal and his goal always changed and evolved as he made his game, Any game like harvest moon shouldn't take more than a week to make. I'm not delusional. My work is all over the internet, Click on my channel and you can see all the different videos and demonstrations. You have to keep in mind that skyrim is previous gen, Even more than previous gen, It's not that complicated if you look at the mechanics, There aren't really many variations in combat, But if you take the witcher for example, The combat system alone is way complicated. In the end, All I've said came from experience, And I am very well able to back that up, But can any of you ? Does any of you have any idea of the process of creating a program ? Let alone a game ? did any of you work in the game industry ? How long ? Just because you read some article about some giant corporation doesn't qualify you to make such bold statements.

[@TheGameYanks]

When I was watching this video I couldn't help but think about how well it correlates to trying to get your KZbin channel successful. Like starting small and you won't get famous right away. It's just interesting to see how closely the two are related. Great video keep up the awesome work. XD

[@BenRangel]

The "achievable" argument cannot be stressed enough. I bet 9/10 hobby projects are never finished because the scope was too big.

[@satannstuff]

Most of mine never got finished because I use them as programming exercises and eventually got bored with them. The only one that I could reasonably call finished was a little turn based dungeon exploring game I made on a ti 84+ calculator, which still needed some tweaking and had some issues due to it being built in ti basic. It wouldn't have made me any money either way, but given the very limited platform I made it for it was actually quite good.

[@tomcheng3903]

satannstuff 'Programming exercise' That's a nice way of putting it;)

[@BenRangel]

satannstuff Sounds very familiar. Can't tell you how many projects I've started and never finished. :) Sure, you can just do some half assed projects to learn programming. But to be a good *game developer*, learning to finish a project is probably the most important skill you could have. Succesful devs aren't necessarily the best coders. They are the best at following through and actually delivering a finished product.

[@agiar2000]

One piece of advice in this video REALLY stood out to me. A lot of this did not really apply to my personal situation, since I am trying to make a game, but I am not trying to make a game-making career. I already have a career as a web developer, and I am hoping to make a fun free game in my free time as a hobby, so I do not need to worry as much about money and lawyers, thankfully. That said, my FAVORITE piece of advice was the one about mechanics over content, lesson 4 at 4:18. This was something that I had not really thought of much, and I am glad for this video reminding me of it!

[@fantasyequinox715]

OMG, lullaby of a deserted hell. FINALLY some Touhou music in something that isnt concentrated on Touhou.

[@viikable]

Yeah, I noticed it immediately as well

[@769270865]

Touhou is a very successful and famous indied, and it took ZUN 20years

[@8bit-meiko]

It's one of the nicest songs for me to listen to ^^

[@marc5137]

Thank you so much ec team. I felt something click within me. 1.5 years into developing my own professional indie title, but you changed my entire outlook on it all. I'll stop trying to work on what doesn't matter, and work on what does: mechanics. I took myself too far working on how it looks when my game was barely even playable at all yet. thank you.

[@ehm3056]

Praise the lord for Steam Greenlight

[@eggowaffleenterprises4251]

Ehm Shellars its going soon

[@ariztrad]

Hey can you fix the timeline please. Thanks

[@Scroteydada]

Who now?

[@TheGameYanks]

Exactly. It really helped seeing the Psy picture and realizing that he wasn't famous until years after he started making music. Kinda puts it all in perspective.

[@SwordofAslan]

This...this just totally made my day. I'm a dreamer who's trying to put his feet on the ground at the same time. I have...some disjointed ideas and understanding of what goes into a game-making process. I know it's gonna take TONS of work. I know that I need to plan well and have a clear plan. But DOING all of that in an efficient way...well, I'm still a baby in the process. This is a beautiful outline and one that I can follow and adapt. THANK YOU!!!

[@nutjob51]

yeah it's scary

[@kevin4227]

Best of luck!!

[@SwordofAslan]

Kevin Jordan Thanks! :) Tiny bit by tiny bit, it's coming along.

[@3p1c_Mustache]

In many ways, this video makes starting an indie team seem like starting a band. Your first gig isn't going to get you rich, but if you offer something unique and enjoyable, you might get a fan or two.

[@federicocarlucci7973]

touhou music in the end trumps everything

[@azureth7026]

trumpets*

[@SpamDestroyer]

zunpets*

[@feint102]

damn right my man

[@MrFirecasters]

This is a great video, concise and down-to-earth, as it should be if it is to help anyone! I hate to see so many people in the comments discouraged by it, I found it very motivational. It is always painful to get your dreams doused in cold water but man, you can make it through it, just plan, keep up a positive attitude and let's see what will happen! Good luck to everyone out there doing this, it's gonna be fun :) Also, this video is kinda old in some aspects, for example Steam Direct is now a thing and make live for indie devs much easier!

[@DudeTheMighty]

A video about the problems specific to developing web games would be really nice to see. It's a different market from local PC games and it'd be nice to have some advice on how to approach this.

[@khuzang]

Extra Credits Yeah, Dan. It would be awesome if you guys talked about this as well. Make it happen, please :]

[@someguydoesyt]

Definitely agree. I'm trying to gather information on how to successfully produce, market, and sell a web-based game, but there is very limited information available.

[@AtrociousNightmare]

This should be sent to EVERYONE. Such incredible, concrete advice.

[@MVegetto1]

Never give up its always easier said than done but sheer determination is always your best friend along with you know your best friends

[@BeastinlosersHD]

I find working with friends who aren't passionate about your game often leave you hanging. Ex: Fez

[@MushinGames]

Really great tips. I've been working on my first commercial game for 2 years and I can totally relate to the video. If you're thinking of becoming an indie game dev, I would highly recommend having mentors who've been there and done it, securing your finances, and staying excited about your game.

[@Silvershockwave]

Sadly, this video only assured me that I probably wasn't ever gonna become a game dev. That's a lot of years down the drain...

[@maniak493]

its hardwork, it can be done, you just gotta have a dedicated team and people to devote to their offtime to do i. Here is the current project im spear heading on mine, just to give you an idea of what to prepare for. steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=251739924

[@maniak493]

thx we finally launched it today on kickstarter finally launched my game on kickstarter www.kickstarter.com/projects/1234468491/disfigured

[@Silvershockwave]

alfredo rubalcava Oh yeah, it does look fun. I've always wanted to get a team together to do something, but most of the time it doesn't quite bare fruit. Either someone gets too busy with life, or too much work is given to one member (often times, it's me). It'd be nice to hang out with a community of developers. Maybe I could find a bunch of people really willing to do something and follow through with it. Good luck on the game, btw!

[@enan95]

Dude, do I have an encouraging thing to show you. This game was made by a 16 year-old (now 17) and is one of the hottest free-to-play games on steam. store.steampowered.com/app/304930/

[@jamesdean1012]

enan95 How is that encouraging? It's a Rust/Dayz/Minecraft Ripoff/clone.

[@suicune2001]

I'm so glad you said it's ok if a game is short. The game I'm planning would be pretty short and I was worried it was too short. I'll work on making the game more memorable instead of longer. :)

[@dlegendarystoryteller6108]

Halleluyah someone understands the meaning of mechanics. I have 1 million friends who have no idea that mechanics matter more than content, and a lot of companies die because of that. Also never forget that core mechanics need to change as a new game is released, not a lot just a bit. This explains why Assassin's Creed turned bad. Everything was good in the second, brotherhood added new stuff which wowed us then they added boats everyone thought it was an amazing mechanic but it was kind of an side mechanic and the game felt dull even though the story wasn't that bad. And finally they made a side mechanic one of the core mechanic which was Assassin's Creed 4 which was amazing.

[@zendiumartwork2886]

What kind of bullshit is that? Mechanics matter more than content, what you said straight up sums up why a lot of video games go downhill, good content and good mechanics is what that makes a good game. You don't need to be a game developer to know that its just called Common sense.

[@KawaiiKodeDaddy]

They just don't know what makes them fun. It's not their job to know, so they will never care, and it's pointless to try to make them care. Knowing what makes a game good is the developers job, the gamer's job is simply to enjoy it.

[@KawaiiKodeDaddy]

***** Lol says a lot about their "dev" knowledge when they blatantly state that the fun in the games they enjoy was the result of random accident, rather than the developers hard work and effort in learning what it took to achieve that.

[@toxic_shr00m]

The...? The what?

[@sonictimm]

1:47 "This is where the fantasy of being an indie separates from the reality" LOL that image! Can I get a demotivational poster of that image and text to hang next to my PC?

[@kiddo6393]

"So you want to be an indie" puts on brown hat and a whip

[@TheGreenMittenz]

Got to say I really enjoyed the touhou remix for the outro theme. Also I love the videos you guys put out.

[@Bronze_Age_Sea_Person]

If I were to build a game,I would make a game that takes coziness to a whole new level.Did you ever imagine why do you need to build a nice-looking home on minecraft,with furniture and appliances?Why do you need to build a well organized kingdom on Age of Empires 2?Why we have that urge to make our things beautiful,symmetric and cozy?Even though we don't have this urge on real life at all?How should I do to explore this desire on a game?

[@3333218]

This is interesting. But not enough for a game. What else did you thought about? [I'm interested to talk and help =)]

[@davidburke4101]

Nice concept, but you need a new idea before it turns into a sims clone.

[@101jir]

***** Your response makes sense. I am terrible at organizing and generally do it moreso because I have to, and I have very few emotions in the way of what the OP described. My AoE empires look like a jumbled mess. Early on I crafted some carpets just so I could say I can, but didn't really do much else. Except.... I do adjust my mining some when I play Minecraft so that the odd angles in the cave come out. Beyond that I don't really do much.

[@darkbeetlebot]

Sir, you just went full cozy.

[@Christopher4700]

Medieval building game. You are a mayor(like in simcity) and needs to plan a city properly otherwise sqaulor and black death creeps in and kill the citizens. Doing particular well give you buildblocks for making your own cozy castle

[@luspearsoram1507]

This video is amazing! I feel more comfortable with discussing games as a designer, and not just as a player. I started to get hooked on this channel last night. This video is the last one I watched before I went to bed. I am so glad, because I get great insights when I wake up later. I remember that this video recommended the focus on simplicity and mechanics. That gave me encouragement to do something. I am an artist. My main kinds of art is writing and drawing. Yet I have an interest in game design as well. I have a cool idea to make a game. That and my other kinds of art revolve around a main story. I don't mean to come across as egotistical, but I wonder if it is "spectacular and novel".My idea can be used for a video game. However I also came up with a way of making it low tech. It is a cross between a tabletop RPG and a TCG. This game is a massive adventure game. It has battling, questing, exploring, collecting monsters and gathering items. It uses cards to show different things to work with. There are also counters used for battling. I imagined something with a lot of content and depth. I was excited to play it in the past. However the lack of developed content held me back. This video gave me encouragement to test things early, even when they are small. The important thing is making sure the basic mechanics are good. I have a awesome idea.I can make a very simple and bare bones version of the game I had in mind. I can play around with it. Once I like it, I can make and play another version with a little more content. Then I keep going until the game is big enough. For starters my first game will just have fighting. The fighting system will be hugely simplified with only the basic rules and a basic move set of up to five attacks. Thanks for the help. :)

[@luspearsoram1507]

thanks for the tips. I am well aware that it will take a lot of time and patience.I am willing to take on the challenges. I am not quite ready to learn programming yet. Hopefully I'll get to that in the future. I have figured out how things are calculated, even in a user friendly way. I find Khan Academy useful for learning programming, and I dabbled with it a bit. Heck this KZbin channel is a big help.

[@notpickybutstrict9484]

notch is the single most known indie developer, mainly because his game is litterly in the top 5 most successful games of all time.

[@lokei3477]

FYI He worked for Mojang which is a video game company so he's not indie

[@notpickybutstrict9484]

ETHAN SLAAAMBERRY Actually, if you done your research, Notch is the former owner of mojang and it was a project he worked on by himself and later Jeb_ came in to help.

[@awakenyourlove8590]

lol owned

[@lokei3477]

whatever i'm not into gaming anyways

[@notpickybutstrict9484]

ETHAN SLAAAMBERRY then why are you watching this video? ^-^

[@laughingfurry]

Indeed it does. I've watched an interview of him. It surprises me all the things he was doing before he hit big.

[@aldxbaran]

Extra Credits I've recently thought this: How would I know if my game is good enough to *sell*? I thought maybe you could do any episode or something on this to help me, and others who are sharing this thought. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

[@Parker8752]

That's a pretty good question. Only real way to find out is to ask somebody to play your game and tell you. Not friends and family, because they'll lie to spare your feelings, but someone impartial. Preferably a group of impartial people. Hell, if you create a decent, representative demo for your game and post it on a game development forum, people will probably happily test it for you and tell you if they'd be willing to pay for the full product.

[@supervideogamerking]

never mind lying, it's entirely possible they will actually like it however bad it is because it's you who made it.

[@monkeywithocd]

What I would do is this: Play it yourself and ask yourself, "Would I buy this?" and then, "How much would I pay for this?". After that, have people around you play it and ask them the same questions.

[@artbyaline]

Playtesting, as it was mentionned in this episode, is a huge help as it provides the distancing you lack as a dev.

[@danny1111105]

Parker8752 I know that this is a bit old, but r/gamedev (www.reddit.com/r/gamedev) has a pretty good community for game developers there is a lot of resources and advice to be given if you ask.

[@da_roachdogjr]

Trying to do things right and this channel really says everything how it is. Thank you Extra Credits team for everything, this channel is like a bible for game devs. ♥

[@ruffusgoodman4137]

"Stop! You're violating the law!" "Pay your fine or go to jail!"

[@x54xHantamachine]

I hope this will prove to be very helpful for me in the future! I'm starting college in less than two weeks and plan on majoring in video game design and development. If I can't get a job at Nintendo (my eventual Japanese minor should help me stand out from your average applicant), I'd like to go into indie game development with some of my friends who are also going. At the moment, since I'm not very well versed with programming languages, I'm spending my time brainstorming fun and novel mechanics. Hopefully I'll be able to find a really fun one that works well!

[@AifosViruset]

Make a board- or cardgame while you wait for those coding-skillz. I have a bachelor in game design and have studied Japanese one year at university level. My advise would be to get to know japan a bit more before making it your life-goal to go there to work. Japan is an amazing country, but sure has some big cons too. Just so you know. It's the best for a trip though.

[@aisakataiga5200]

You guys are the air I breathe

[@WingedElement]

I'd love to see something on the engineering side of games, I'm currently going to school for electrical engineering and would love to be designing hardware for gaming devices in the future. I think it'd be fun to see how designers of the technology itself fit into the equation

[@kennethdunlop1493]

Good advice, guys. I'm starting an indie game myself and everything you said (including the stuff about sequels being better) is spot on.

[@nialv7985]

Hey, that outro is a Touhou remix! Now I'm curious about what EC thinks about Touhou

[@Magicannon_]

Agreed. Plus the best stage 5 music evar! This is especially interesting with the video being on Indie developers. Being the king of Touhou, ZUN is probably one of the giants in this topic. And his "studio" is one man.

[@shiroinu6773]

yes and yes to you both. (oh god i almost fell off my chair when i heard the outro)

[@Psychosteria]

This video presents a nice, well-needed reality check. I've been studying and working hard to get into Indy game development, and I've spent the last few years almost solely focused on content and just thinking "oh yeah, I'll just make the characters move with the keyboard or whatever". I should've seen how obvious good mechanics are to a game; they're what separates games from comics and movies. I already owe EC a lot for all I've learned, and now I know I have a lot MORE to learn. ^u^

[@rwoats2547]

August 2013: "Getting on Steam doesn't just happen." October 2018: *glances at "Wild Animal Racing"* yeahhhhhhh, sooo

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

what do you mean Wild Animal Racing is the best videogame ever

[@GallowglassAxe]

Looking at this the idea of “mechanics over content” really stands out for me. My family has a small time store and we've been good at holding our own against the bigger department store but this may help us go further. Since the place burned down recently we’re in the state of rebuilding. Like an Obi-Wan phoenix we’ll rise from the ashes more powerful than they can possibly imagine.

[@scotty7706]

“Getting on steam doesn’t just happen” It does now!

[@NBLRMT]

You make a good point. I think we are talking about the same thing, however. Only you are seeing it more strategically, get a small studio job --> make money --> use it to start development on your own indie game, etc.

[@tigrezz55]

can you guys make a video of "So you want to be an artist for videogames"?

[@wayneclemons3004]

YES!!!!

[@MisterSketch4]

I need to see this!

[@JamesVermont]

Thank you so much for this, after watching this video I took a more serious look at the size of what I was making and decided to cut it down in favor of a shorter story and smaller world but with better content.

[@kohgeek]

No. 5 Please make sure you know how to program, or at least do game design in some ways or another.

[@dlegendarystoryteller6108]

+Jun Dong Koh Actually in 2016 everything is already done for you all you need to do is tweek or mix some codes and it will look like it's something new.

[@OddBranch]

+Damjan Petkovski not true, you can't make a good game without beeing able to code

[@dlegendarystoryteller6108]

SG Producer Tru programming makes the game more unique it gives that rarity that makes it special.

[@kohgeek]

Plus many AI/Physics/Rendering/Calculations requires a good base of programming so it can be smooth.

[@Yarott75]

+Damjan Petkovski It's not about the uniqueness of anything. Having basic programming knowledge is what will help you use those little preset things you find in commercial game engines and such, like Game Maker, more efficiently. ESPECIALLY so with RPG Maker! DO NOT BE FOOLED BY ITS SIMPLICITY! That's rookie mistake #1.

[@jamesen584]

'Getting on Steam doesn't just happen...' *BAM!* 100 dollas, and you're on!

[@kyrandunn-mills5290]

Lol

[@bela15216]

4:31 TO THE MOOOOOON!!!!

[@SamuelFeitosa]

+Misty Wind Right before was "Today I Die". It's worth a try too =)

[@laughingfurry]

In another video, he said it's best to build a story around the gameplay. Start with game mechanics, perfect the gameplay, then work on level design and story. In my opinion, gameplay can be built around the story, but you need to have an absolutely solid idea of what mechanics you will use. Of course, if you're just starting with game design, focus on gameplay above everything else. You won't have enough idea of what are proper mechanics if you don't have any experience to work from.

[@wu1ming9shi]

So to sum it up. Build from the ground up. Make sure the foundations are able to support the weight that it will surely have to carry in the future. Only then think of the next steps. Sounds kinda like modding to me. :)

[@cobalius]

I'm so glad you mentioned to the moon :O Uhh and i love this outro x3

[@MaJeeDooo0010]

Me: Oh boy, I can't wait to make games and make everyone happy! This video: but you need to do these first Me: uuuh ok Six and a haf minutes later... Me: oh my, I need to shape up myself for what's to come, I won't stop though, even if the video made me a bit depressed, I won't stop giving away joy

[@char5285]

thats the spirit! this is exactly how i reacted

[@SalHaran]

Every time I watch an episode of Extra Credits I feel like I can tackle the fucking world.

[@alexmckinney5761]

Best game engine for a beginner?

[@jjohan337]

Unity and Gamemaker

[@leenus2348]

And then UE.

[@0Quiwi0]

Pretty much those three, and then there are the more focused ones. Like few point and click engines which are damn easy to use (I mean you don't need to know pretty much anything about coding to make something decent with them). They are usually like 50-100 bucks and thats it. No fees after you pay the price. RPG maker is good for top down adventure type of games and kinda cheap. Especially if you pick up one of the older versions. These things just need a good story and/or art style, because they are pretty limited on the mechanics side. Unity is absolutely awesome if you know what you are doing, but you can easily get millions of bugs effing up your game, but that's the problem of any engine that is very flexible. There is tons of how-to videos for Unity and Unreal Engine, so I would go with them especially if you are going 3D.

[@alanp741]

If you know how to code, Unity If not and you wanna learn how code works, Scratch I made my first game in Scratch and it was a horror maze game. It's....meh

[@leenus2348]

Quiwi Lin Lisolet If you have a strong computer, UE all the way. "Strong..."

[@RoadsideCookie]

Happy birthday Extra Credits!

[@KamWinterGaming]

To those kids that are working on games but have no idea how. Me being 11, suggest watching Shaun Spalding and then work on a simple game like a Top down shooter or Platformer, then expand on it. Use GameMaker Studio by yoyogames. That's how I make games, There's also a good community there to show your games so yeh.

[@braveknight-ch1gt]

+jessikam im very confused on how to buy it can i get it only by pc or can i get it to develop xbox indie games?

[@KamWinterGaming]

braveknight 2014 Well you'd have to pay for professional to develop xbox and other platforms. The free version allows PC Platforms

[@braveknight-ch1gt]

Ohk thanks bro u cool😊👍 cant wait to start

[@TheBanannaPanda]

+JessiKam I was kind of stupid with it. I just jumped in head first into Unity after 3 months of learning Java Script on my own and a few never finished games on scratch. 3 unfinished Unity games later, I'm finally in the middle of making one that could actually be finished

[@freakyturtlegaming9442]

I use Unity. But I might try Gamemaker

[@Cldayn]

I don't remember having ever commented on an Extra Credits video (even though it's absolutely great (I'm watching it all since the very first episode, so yeah)) but I felt I needed to. Just because of that great rearrange of Lullaby of Deserted Hell as the outro music :> Touhou music wins. Also thanks for this video, it's really great and precious information.

[@not_anybody_in_particular]

Call me crazy, but waiting for the remixes that play over the credits is half the fun of these shows (well, maybe not *half*). Like, hearing Lullaby of Deserted Hell, or anything from Touhou is pretty cool. .... Actually, now that I think about it, being an Indie episode, I shouldn't be too surprised; but still..

[@laughingfurry]

You can still do a lot. You can try to convince your parents to get software for programming. If they won't buy but you have a regular computer, you can search and download software. There are programs you can legally download and use. Likewise, some programs have a trial period or will have parts locked until purchased. Most programs for Flash and Gamemaker are some examples. Then, learn whatever programs you are using. Start with screen savers and menu code, then work up to games.

[@NordicGameplays]

I am 15 and want to start making games. I am reading a book about c++ and has started to understand the very basics of it. but do I have to learn c++ very well before I can start making games? And how do I go forth after that, do I code everything or use a game engine? Any answer from anyone that has some experience is appreciated.

[@ar8307]

Yes most games require a large amount of programming if you have no experience in game development or programming i suggest starting with game maker once you begin to understand the basic concepts, learn to use a game engine. I recommend the unity engine mostly because it somewhat simple and the licensing is free. The languages you can use in unity are javascript, c#(it is similar to c++) and boo. You may also want to learn 3d modelling to create your in game assets (for 3d games). You could use blender3d, maya or 3ds max for this if you can't afford 3ds max or maya, go for blender it is quite powerful and is free. You may also need a bit of experience with using image editing software like photoshop, gimp etc for the in game textures In case of 2d games, these software can be used to create sprites. In its most basic sense, making a game has the following steps: first, you make the assets. If it is a 3d asset, you then have to texture it to make it look good. Once you are done with that, you must import it into the engine where you program the game and do the level design.Then you polish the game (debugging, better visual effects etc). After this comes the publishing, marketing etc this you need to figure out on your own it depends on the game you created, the console you built it for, the target audience and a number of other factors.

[@NordicGameplays]

Anirafter Dod Thank you for all the tips. I will start trying out and learning, and in a couple of years I will go to a school where they teach game development, but that's a long time and so I'll try to learn some basics first. :)

[@salavora]

Tip for getting a job later: Create your game(s), put them onto CD (together with a nice html with your contact info!) and then go to game shows and distribute those CDs to the companys there as your resume. How best to get a job then showing, that you got the basics down? Sure, you will get a lot of rejections, but you get those in pretty much every field (I wrote about 80 applications before I landed my first job and even that was as a first lvl network supporter). But you will also get a lot of usable feedback. Be it about your games or about the way you presented yourself. Use this stuff! Always imrpove yourself! Good luck!

[@NordicGameplays]

salavora Thanks for the tip, will remember this for later. :)

[@AbosluteInfinity]

NordicGameplays Along with what the first commenter said. I would also look into subscribing to Unreal Engine 4. It's only $19 dollars a month and plus you can unsubscribe and keep all the stuff you already got. The subscription will allow you to view the engine source code and edit( I don't advise that unless you know exactly what your doing) it to your own needs. Plus they have a really active community with multiple tutorials on all parts of the engine. They don't have the 2d part of it quite ready yet, but we can expect it to be functional by the end of the year. Unity and UE4 are both good if you want to make a game, but if you want to learn how to make an engine UE4 is the better option. NOTE: Building an engine by yourself is ridiculous and at this point the equivalent of inventing the wheel again and I do not suggest it, however, it is a good idea to do some analysis of the inner workings of the engine if you can manage it.

[@MegaGangsta4life]

Im 15 years old and Im an indie game developer and I love every second of it. I dont care if only 10 people play my game, as long as its being played. Ive made videos of my current FPS and Ive been getting awesome feedback from ppl. Money doesnt mean jack-squat if your not happy

[@Jakar_Umbra]

I watch this video way more than I should and sometimes it makes me feel willing to take the world while other times I feel like it's just not worth trying. Yet no matter what, I get this horrible nagging in the back of my head telling me to go for it and don't stop. Given the skillset they claim is needed the fact that I'm studying psychology doesn't exactly count against me either. Onwards I suppose... Right after my exams are finished.

[@SwitchbackCh]

Jakar Umbra May be saying this quite some time afyer, but, all the best to that. :D

[@yarrmander3197]

Seven years later, I still enjoy the touch of using a fan arrangement of "Lullaby of a Deserted Hell" from probably one of THE biggest Indie Developers on the scene (Team Shanghai Alice/ZUN).

[@pkthunder3]

AAAAAAHHH TOUHOU MUSIC! :D

[@ProjectLemonHQ]

I myself am thirteen, and I suggest learning the very basics. Start early. Learn how to make things like basic AI, level design, or even story writing and music. As the video says, start small, but at the same time, don't limit yourself. Just do what you know you can do. With a little help and practice, you can be well on your way to being the best in the industry. Go ahead and try it! It's fun! If you just can't get it, then learn from the works of others. We need more people like you.

[@cric5105]

If only this video was made after undertale

[@MRsimpleMCtimez]

you guys always show the real point , no personal preference

[@idonthave1111]

Are there sites where people with different skill sets wanting to develop games gather?

[@GrayFates]

Ya but you typically can't find anyone who's any good that will work for free. Websites for game engine's (like unity and UDK) often have small groups looking for people or people looking for groups. I tried that once and it was disastrous. None of us knew what we were doing and the whole thing collapsed inside of 2 months when the guy in charge just up and vanished without a word. The take away is you're probably not going to find anyone to work with you online unless you pay them for it.

[@GrayFates]

If you have an idea for a game and you're really excited and passionate about it; my advice is to do as much of it as you can and save up as much money as you can over the course of a few years. Then when you have some money and a solid core pay for contracted artists and coders to fill in the holes. Or go to Indie conferences (like the independent games conference) and try to network and make as many friends as you can and hopefully find some people who are interested in your project and are interested in finishing it with you.

[@idonthave1111]

GrayFates Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to work on a game design document and cards for an online CCG first. It seems like the simplest option, plus I like the mechanics I've come up with for it. May I ask what type of game yal were working on, and the number of people involved? Trying to imagine the scale of a CCG project. I think it wouldn't require as large a group, but I honestly have no idea.

[@Parker8752]

idonthave1111 For your game, you'll need an artist, a programmer and a designer at minimum. The designer needs to actually design the cards, not in terms of artwork (that's the artist's job) but in terms of how they interact with each other. EC's vid on counter play should give a few ideas there, but you basically need to be able to counter cards, remove cards from play, and buff cards with other cards. This could be in the form of healing, instant death, equipment, magical buffs and counterspells, depending on your basic design. Also, cards need to be balanced based on two things: cost and rarity. Rares should be more powerful than uncommons, which should be more powerful than commons, assuming the same cost to play those cards, but not by enough to make an all rare deck completely overpower a more balanced deck. Once you've got the cards designed, that's when everybody else comes in. You get the artist doing illustrations for those cards, and you get the programmer creating the actual software that this will run on. Now for the bit that's useful for all beginning devs - something that was mentioned in the video: once you've got the actual game functioning, get people to test it and tell you why it sucks. Take the useful feedback (and only the useful feedback) and work on making the game not suck. Then get people to test the new version and tell you why it still sucks. Rinse and repeat until you've got something that you actually feel comfortable charging money for. Otherwise, you end up with something like Guise of the Wolf...

[@jnh_dnb]

I'd peruse IRC channels personally. What I will say though from personal experience is, if you just work on honing tangible skills on your own, that other people can leverage, you'll find other hard working people to sync up with easily. Just being a "designer" and not being able to program, make art/assets, sound, or do the web site/server stuff if needed, will almost always lead you nowhere when working with others that are spending their spare time pursuing games. Lots of people have ideas but if you want to find good people they need to see some output if you don't have any games under your belt. Just my opinion. I'd go to www.unity3d.com and start learning to make games then peruse the forums and irc channels to show off what you've done and then find people to work with. Wow long response, feel free to ignore.

[@KristiChan1]

The picture of the lawyer in the emergency case had me rolling. XD

[@hiiammoot]

Does lesson 1 mentioned at 0:30 still apply when using Unreal Engine 4 or Unity 5?

[@TheTrueReiniat]

Yes it does, you may be able to squeeze more content and maybe more advanced graphic techniques but AAA scope is still out of the question.

[@hiiammoot]

+Elias Reiniat I've seen people do better jobs than AAA games though.

[@JamesMcGhee]

+Moot Juh The tools available to indie level (money wise) are reaching the quality we expect from AAA but to produce the amount of content with the level of polish that a AAA does requires a team with the experience and volume (available man hours) a AAA has (usually) which is absolutely huge vs 3 or 4 pep even working 20hr days no where near the man hours of say Fallout or GTA ... now that is not always true (nothing is always true) but I would say in general the rule still applies.

[@mvo9856]

+Moot Juh If you throw together Unity assets in the engine and code it you can't call that a AAA quality game. That's just Frankenstein's monster. Keep your scope small still applies if you want to make a good game that people will actually want to pay for.

[@hiiammoot]

+Mia Couch Of course you'd have game design first. But triple A quality can be achieved with a much lower budget now.

[@noimodimi9020]

I loved that dog on the skateboard.

[@PeacefulExplosion008]

Uhmmm, I'm 13 and I've made a few prototypes and one current game, jumper, it's on my channel, is it any good?

[@Zenithium67]

In my opinion, no... But you can learn from it

[@rfzwi3437]

No offence but how can you look at what you've uploaded and then ask "is it any good?". No. It's terrible. The graphics are bad... the core game mechanics are terrible (no objective or reason for doing anything) and to makes things worse (this is taken from the video comments) You said (about your game): "people seem to think it's awful, but it actually isn't that bad." People have clearly told you it's awful.... yet you think it "isn't that bad" ? It's 100% bad. One of the worst "things" (I don't dare call it a game) I've ever seen. Please... please do not release this. Go away... download a decent engine (Maybe something other than the blender game engine? lol) and LEARN how to do the basics (level design, game mechanics... textures/graphics that don't belong in 1970) The last thing anyone needs is yet another very unpolished "game" on the market. Do a youtube search for "worst indie pc games" and watch some videos. My advice: Download Unity then follow these tutorials unity3d.com/learn/tutorials/modules

[@PeacefulExplosion008]

I wasn't planning on releasing this, i just made it in Blender as a prototype, i'm working on doing it in Unity at the moment. The idea was for a polygonal style and soft colours and/or textures. I don't have a team or anything, I have to do everything myself, texturing, UV Unwrapping, modelling, bugfixing, programming, testing, UI, GUI, etc. I probably should have said this before. Sorry, I swear it will look better soon.

[@lily14130]

oneacc ounton You do know that he did all of it by himself? It's not like he has a huge budget and professional team. I say good on him for putting all that work into making his own games, especially at 13 years old.

[@PeacefulExplosion008]

lily14130 Thank you very much for your kindness.

[@armanchas2627]

loved how you used a Touhou song at the end

[@ianjensen8078]

Also, start young, i am still in grade school and i am making games. plus nice intro music.

[@fesco8276]

+Ian Jensen Me too! I'm in grade school and I'm programming with a Language Called quest [ Basic but people make cool games with it]

[@oddixgames6704]

Just realized I was watching this 3 yrs ago and started developing my game following all those advises. Well, I'm about to release it :) haha

[@fennecinspace]

Dude this is so pessimistic making indie games is about having fun creating something that you want to create because the industry doesn't provide for you and always remember guys that as indies we all stick together and there is help everywhere if you need it + if all you think about is selling your game = it won't sell the first 2 or 3 or maybe 10 games won't do a great job but it doesn't matter because making it as an indie isn't about money it's about compleating a project and i promise you that when you make a game that you want to make because you like making it and not because you want money that game will sell for sure

[@EndeadXx]

Hammi Cloud and realy he doesn't argue against that. he doesnt at all pretend that indie devs are likely to make massive ammounts of money but simply gives advice on how to make enough money to survive and excuse full time game developement.

[@iquestioneverything3426]

Yes ,but he is just giving tips for people who is trying to get money

[@fennecinspace]

u guys are not getting my point indie devs can get a shit load of money but not in just indie dev but in any job full time or part time id you don't love it u won't be able to get money from it so drop the lawyer and the how to make money from indie devs shit because indie game dev is fun and random it doesn't go by a system like this video is trying to make it do and it's not a wau to make money at least not in the first 1 to 3 years or so .. you start indie dev as a hobby than it turns into passion than after releasing 5 or 6 games like i mean really good games that when u start taking this video seriously

[@TheNandixLP]

Hammi Cloud Thank you so much for that comment! The video has given me a great overview about what you should care about... And I KNOW that I'm going to be a dev... But sometimes there's just the fear that it wont work... Your comment really gave me positive energy! As you said: Let's all stick together in this age of indie games!

[@fennecinspace]

TheNandixLP good luck ..

[@kasane1337]

Regarding the testing: After having completed one small game with a friend of mine (which I didn't even distribute publicly because it contains copyrighted material and so on), I still don't let anyone do the testing until I'm more than halfway done. Why? Because I am personally connected to this game so I can bear it being incomplete, bugged, things seeming clunky, getting crashes and so on. A person who has tested the game is too likely not to play the entire game since they've been more or less "spoiled" by the incomplete mess it used to be. This is why ~70% of our time was spent testing the game rather than programming it. The same goes for the next game we're working on, and I am completely fine with this because I love playing it and realising that a certain level is complete bullshit and redoing that bit from scratch.

[@Tyler-Kearney]

what kind of stuff do you have to do to get your game on psn?

[@Tyler-Kearney]

TheAlphaSavage steam sounds a lot simpler but psn would usually sell more, plus Sony seems to want to get indie developers on their platform.

[@Tyler-Kearney]

TheAlphaSavage I know they had the more popular ones, super meat boy, binding of Isaac, terreria, amd Minecraft, but Xbox 260 had others like dust and less popular ones, the tables truly have turned in Sony's favor. And Nintendo can only survive on the 3ds for so long.

[@Tyler-Kearney]

TheAlphaSavage I'm still in high school, junior so one more year before college, but I already know the people I'd be working with, some of my fellow classmates, and I believe I'd start with unity since they give a leeway where you can still sell a game using the free unity engine until you reach a certain profit, unlike unreal.

[@Tyler-Kearney]

TheAlphaSavage would it make things easier or harder if every artist I know uses an anime art style? I've heard that it's easier to animate and isn't as hard on the hardware, especially since using that style you clearly aren't focused on realism, still no excuse for bad physics though.

[@Tyler-Kearney]

***** yeah

[@JuvenileStacks]

+Skyloftian plex I dont know the first one, but the second game is the steam game "To The Moon," which is an AMAZING game.