Fantastic Result For Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD In Our 10% EV Road Trip Challenge!

Kyle heads out for a 10% Challenge in the new Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD variant. Enjoy!
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#Tesla #model3 #roadtrip

[@blurglide]

I got one last week and the range is unbelievable. I did a 200 mile commute [edit: it was 187], much of which was at over 80 mph with lots of elevation change, and it only took 52% of the battery. Edit2: This trip was at elevations of 5000' to 7,500'. Drag at these elevations is 14% and 25% less than at sea level, respectively. This more than made up for the higher speeds. As they say- your mileage may vary.

[@TeslaCareyP]

Wow that’s crazy. I need to trade in our older model 3

[@ranyshawket9253]

Really ? 200 miles and only took 52% ?

[@blurglide]

@@ranyshawket9253 Double checked and it was actually only 187

[@MrGiggity890]

Welcome to the future

[@blurglide]

@@ranyshawket9253 Yeah I double checked and it was 187 miles. Also, this trip was at elevations of 5000' to 7,500'. Drag at these elevations is 14% and 25% less than at sea level, which more than made up for the higher speeds. As they say- your mileage may vary.

[@ranyshawket9253]

I always enjoy watching your videos because I can tell you are 100% honest and don’t like to bullshit

[@SparkySho]

Str8 shtr

[@GraysonCarr]

Absolutely. One of the only EV reviewers that show in painstaking detail how they run their tests. All of the old school publications get inconsistent and unexpected numbers, and then just give the result in a single line without providing any details… just a “trust us bro.” Frankly, with how many anti-EV and anti-certain-company articles most of the big publications have put out over the years, I just cannot trust them.

[@jamesphillips2961]

New M3 LR RWD, after 1500 miles getting 4.9 miles/kW and 20.3 kW/100 miles. Honestly didn't expect this.

[@alancobbin]

Superb enjoy fella ,you know you made the correct choice when you see them kind of figures👍

[@packetauditor]

I am at 1000 miles and 4.55mi/kwh. A lot of hard acceleration and some rainy driving.

[@blurglide]

I got one last week and the range is unbelievable. I did a 200 mile commute, much of which was at over 80 mph with lots of elevation change, and it only took 52% of the battery!

[@tonymai1844]

@@packetauditor Yeah, I got max 4.5miles for one 1Kw battery energy. On freeway HW5 from NorCal to SoCal in night time I can get 4miles. Yeah, some AC or some Heater. Day time with more AC, I can get 90 miles with 25Kw

[@andrejwalter8968]

kwh*

[@JH-uu7jl]

This is the more practical kind of test for range. I dont drive at 80 but this means I'd be expecting even more range out of the same charging time. Thanks for doing these. Im betting yohre tired after doing the 100 to zero % right before this one!!

[@garyclack3807]

When he gets stopped doing 80 miles an hour does he tell the cop he’s a KZbinr doing a range test and they let him go I don’t think so

[@superuniverse8497]

I put my order in after an impressive 160-mile test drive. Starting with a full charge, I drove a round trip at 70-85 mph with the heat on and the kids using their screens. Even after all that, I still had 46% battery remaining. Excellent! I went with the long-range rear-wheel drive model.

[@Jaw0lf]

I love my Tesla Model 3 RWD Highland with the LFP as all the battery is available. I have only done a few trips requiring a Tesla Supercharger and I have never had to wait more than 15 minutes to continue my journey. The car is just amazing.

[@teslasnek]

I still believe Tesla designs their charging curve to protect the battery from long-term degradation. It will be interesting to see how these other cars that hold the charging curve higher for longer fair in the long run 🤔

[@BBingo-v5i]

The poor charging curve only does help with longevity if you mean that they would otherwise run into thermal issues very fast if they would charge better, then yes, They are simply forced to do that. Teslas LR batteries degrade at a similar level than the much faster-charging competition. And here is why: People need to understand that charging power in kW are meaningless, what counts is the C-charge rate, the battery temperature, the battery chemistry and the quality of other components used. Teslas 82kWh total capacity battery pack in the Model 3 LR RWD faces 250kW peak charging power, so 3.05C (3.05x82=250). The Hyundai Ioniq 6 for example has a 77,4kWh battery and charges with 244kW peak (Hyundai says 240kW but it slightly goes higher than that), that translates to a C-charge rate of around 3.15C (77,4x3.15=244). The max stress on the battery is almost identical! So if the battery packs become equally warm during charging session there is no reason why Teslas charging curve is so bad. Are E-GMP cars charging their batteries at a much higher temperature? I don't think so. What about the battery chemistry then? Hyundai/KIA use NMC batteries and Tesla NCA, right? Limitations would probably be very similar. Maybe NCA only allows for slightly lower temperature levels for the same thermal stress level as NMC. But as far as I know the temperature range is very similar. What about the quality of the other components used? Teslas charging curves are one of the worst in the entire industry since they charge with very high amps and the cars have rather poor temperature and BMS management capabilities. Tesla simply HAS to lower the peak charging power early on since the battery and the charging cable are heating up faster than for example with 800V E-GMP cars which have rather low amp ratings, but also compared to standard 400V cars like the MEB models from Volkswagen. The cooling capability of Teslas models seems to be not powerful enough to counter that. If you have enough cooling and good software you can hold the charging curve close to its max charging power for a longer time, and we just learned that the max C-charge rate is almost identical here anyway. Simple as that. Look at the Porsche Taycan for instance. It's max C-charge rate is 3.3C, not that far off from Tesla and Hyundai/KIA. Yet it can hold its charging curve above 300kW, or 3C, to 60%. That is awesome. You can follow the battery temperature reading in the infotainment screen of the Porsche Taycan. The max. temperature the battery pack in the Taycan achieves is 58C or 136F? What temperature is it in the Tesla Model 3 LR models? Could be a bit lower, but not by crazy levels. What is the max temp in the E-GMP cars? Probably similar to the Model 3 LR models. So max charging stress level is the same and max temperature is at least similar, but Tesla only achieves that by a fast declining charging curve. That seems forced and not intentional. At least the E-GMP cars, even tho they charge significantly faster from 10-80% than any Tesla, should have the same stress levels and temperatures and therefore similar degradation levels as the Model 3 LR models. The Porsche Taycan could have slightly more degradation but nothing really crazy, in the end it also depends on the quality of materials. And Porsche clearly doesn't cheap out. Tesla's amp boosted 400V approach just simply comes to its limits and it is outdated. Standard 400V EVs already show that by having similar charging speeds from 10-80% even tho they only have 205kW max power available and not 250kW. They simply manage to achieve a better charging curve from 10-80%. Tesla is only faster for a short while and not over a longer time period. This indicates that the high amps and therefore temperature must be an issue. The industry is moving over to 800V for a reason. Not only to achieve very high charging powers but also to keep temperature at check while doing so. 800V and better cooling and BMS capabilities as well as higher quality components are needed. That costs money, money Tesla is not willing to spend.

[@teslasnek]

@@BBingo-v5i Tesla's Panasonic batteries are not NMC, they're NCA

[@teslasnek]

@@BBingo-v5i A lot of guesses, estimations, and conjecture in your comment. The overall feel is that you have a lot of subjective opinions rather than objective facts. I'll trust Sandy Munro as he has torn all these cars down (and has countless videos on KZbin proving his comments), and says that Tesla's have the best BMS, best cooling systems, and most high quality battery packs in the industry from a design and structural standpoint. There are numerous reports of the Porsche Taycan having all kinds of battery issues, recalls, and warranty replacements- far more than Tesla has, so don't give me "Porsche would not use cheap components." Tesla's battery cooling system has proven itself in many high stress track events like the Pyke's Peak Hill climb race attesting to Tesla's prowess in that department. Like Kyle said in his last video, the Ioniq 6 makes absolutely no sense from a value perspective when compared to the RWD Model 3. Tesla is still the benchmark for the industry according to him, and I agree. Plus, the 800 volt EVs like Porsche, Lucid, Hyundai, and Kia will be in for a rude surprise when they finally get access to the Tesla supercharger network (which is still by far the best charging network by every metric that matters: reliability, availability, etc.) and they find out their cars can pull only 50 to 87 kW lol 😄

[@C4rb0neum]

@@BBingo-v5iI’ve read somewhere that choosing a battery is balancing range over lower heat dissipation. So either you take a performance battery and get performance or you take a longer range. Porsche clearly takes performance because they can charge faster as well as drive 200 km/h for longer. Tesla probably chose range; especially for this LR model. Note that Porsche could probably pick a battery with a slightly higher energy density (to not have too little range) because selling price is higher.

[@AlexBerman1]

​@@BBingo-v5iIsn't the whole point of 800V to limit heat because less amps?

[@docdre7872]

Out of Spec needs to put up a blackboard the way Top Gear used to do when comparing track times of different vehicles. All the vehicles that have been tested are put on a board and one can visualize the difference between each vehicle with ranking.

[@docdre7872]

Writing this after seeing Kyle showing a gragh, sorry Out of Spec, but it should be more prominent.

[@DavesaysHi]

This is a great informative video for all of those who basically judge EVs by range anxiety. Most of us go less than 300 a day and can wake up every morning with a fresh 300. Why aren't there videos about Chevy Silverados and their range and cost per mile. Range anxiety is a five year ago issue for over 90% (I made that up) of us. I'm now more interested in what cars offer instead of yet another range and charge speed video. I do absolutely appreciate your expertise but for that annual trip to grandma's I'm fine with the downside vs my all year long joy of an EV. Please keep up the great videos; I do enjoy them..

[@eclecticcyclist]

Wyoming is sensible, in Europe we have very few Stop signs but mostly 'Give Way' signs. When we do, it means STOP and drivers are regularly prosecuted for not stopping.

[@Tonar18]

Kyle you’d be proud of me. As an Out of Spec fan you taught me how to arrive at chargers at low state of charge. My last trip I arrived at .2% at my last stop. I think I have it figured out. Of course I did this by myself. I wouldn’t put my family through that anxiety 😂.

[@GetThemLyrics]

I showed up once at 3% and was feeling the pressure. I don’t like below 5% which to be fair I didn’t do that in my old ice vehicle either.

[@kenhiett5266]

Isn't it hard on the battery to take it down to a very low state of charge as he often say is his preference? I know taking it high and low occasionally is ok, but it's not a good idea to do frequently is my understanding.

[@Tonar18]

@@kenhiett5266 you’re correct about both. I’ve had mine a year and have only charged it like that a few times. However, on a road trip you definitely want to because that’s where the fastest charging occurs. Mine will hold at 250 kw until about 22% then start’s tapering down. So if I can pull in around 5% instead of 20% SOC I get a lot more energy in the battery in the same 15 minutes of charging. That’s the trick to having faster road trips. Just don’t charge like that all the time

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

Assuming this test was held at significant elevation in Wyoming the same comment applies as the one I made for your previous range test in Colorado : "Am I correct in assuming this test was done in Colorado ? If so , you have to take the reduction in air density due to the elevation above sea level into account . In Denver at more than 5000 ft above sea level , air density will be only 85% of that at sea level . Air drag , the biggest drag component at 70 mph , will be 15% lower . I am guessing that this will approximately result in 10% more range than if you had done the test in Florida ."

[@Cyrribrae]

Yes, they talk about the effects of elevation often. But that's why this isn't a guarantee of results. It's a standardized test to show comparison across models, meant to give the cars the best chance to show their best. You won't always be driving in warm, calm conditions either. But that's fine if you understand the results in context.

[@gerritgovaerts8443]

@@Cyrribrae Then I rest my case . Just FYI if I compare this result of 3.6 miles/Kwh and make and adjustment of around 10% for elevation , then it does match a result of around 3.2 Kwh on a test in France at 130km/h (or 80 mph) just recently . The results make sense if taken in context .

[@georgepal9154]

They run their tests against their own tests. Same track, same conditions. You can't expect it to perform the same where you drive, but you can expect the relative performance gains or losses against other vehicles that did the same test.

[@LearningFast]

One metric they should track is cost per mile during this test. A slower charging car that is extremely efficient will save a lot of money over time especially with DC charging prices being quite high.

[@evchargerreviewsnet]

A single motor Tesla will need to start preconditioning earlier because it uses the motors for heat. It’s roughly 3kw vs. 6kw of battery heating available between single and dual motor.

[@zguy95135]

IIRC when they redid the preconditioning behavior, they give you the notification anytime it's doing some kind of battery conditioning like heat scavenging. If you watch the consumption it doesn't really go up at all when it's notifying you early in the trip. It tends to slowly get it where it needs to be, especially on a long journey. It used to do the full blast thing near the end and you could tell by the sound and also the power usage jump up exponentially. It still will if it really needs to or your trip is short.

[@ThorCleavelandson]

Now I want a Tesla more than ever 😎

[@Usedcars1st]

Wish I could get one ugggggggg

[@rcpmac]

Oh, there is no waiting list I can assure you.

[@boborambow]

It would be awesome to see a plan for when the industry moves everything to higher voltage. If they could all just agree, it would drive down 800v architecture hardware costs. It’s becoming pretty clear that higher voltage and lower amps can lead to a better charging experience. IMO, once Tesla finally starts upgrading their v3 chargers to support 1,000 volts (or changed them all to v4 which I doubt will happen considering they still have v2s out), they will probably transition to 800v. The Cybertrucks 200v x 4 is probably an interim solution to keep it working well with their current charging infrastructure. I bet once they upgrade their chargers, they’ll make a straight up 800v pack.

[@TheHoosiers2008]

I always aim for 5% in teslas since you're carrying 250kw deeper in the pack, the arrival predictor is very accurate, and the chargers' reliability. Would be interesting to see how it would do against competition on a 5% start (even if you just put out the theoretical number).

[@shrichaudhary]

Even road tripping a gasoline car the average pitstop is more than 15 minutes because you have to fuel up and then go in and do a bio break get a coffee, etc.

[@noer0205]

Love these test! Keep up the good work! And an impressive car from Tesla here

[@nlc201]

Contrasting this test with the M3 2024 LR AWD (19") 10% that Kyle did earlier in the year. With regards to charging performance, the Panasonic pack in the RWD achieved 35 kWh into the pack and a SOC of 56% before setting off. The LG pack in the AWD was a little bit fuzzier. The last viewable screen before he got out to unplug was 33 kWh into the pack, though it may or may not have ticked over to 34 kWh before he unplugged. In any case, the SOC was 54% before setting off. The actual range test portion was a bit apples and oranges due to the AWD being on 19" wheels and the RWD being on 18" wheels, which they showed in their complete M3 range test of all variants makes a gigantic difference. So, I'm going to go out on a limb here and agree that yes, the LG pack does have worse charging performance than the Panasonic, but not by much. The general consensus is that the LG pack is absolutely terrible compared to the Panasonic. However, using the numbers from these two tests, the LG is only a few percent points slower in charging. Both packs were charging at ~100 kW when unplugged, so the LG pack could make up that difference with the Panasonic with another 60 seconds or less of charging. As an Ioniq 5 owner, both packs are laughable at charging, but I eat my words when I see how efficient the Teslas are. And also superchargers actually work... Well done @outofspec !

[@deepb4101]

Found this really useful, thank you!

[@opalhensley7566]

Each time I see a new video, it's a treat!

[@galactictomato1434]

Bot

[@alosman7121]

I like these tests, it gives very good information I would like to see them in Winter, that is very important here in Canada

[@newscoulomb3705]

25:58 I was still really looking forward to your Chevy Silverado EV 10% challenge test, but I guess you never got around to it. It should actually come pretty close to these results, which would be impressive for an EV truck.

[@ErikHenriksson_]

It will not come close simply because of the horrible efficiency compared to the M3/Taycan/Ionity6 cars

[@BBingo-v5i]

​​​​​​​​​​​​@@ErikHenriksson_The charging of the Silverado EV with 24 modules (so the beefiest version?) was tested by Out of Spec already, it recharged 86kWh in 15min. With a 1.4 miles per kWh efficiency the Silverado EV would achieve 120 miles in this test, while the Model 3 LR RWD, the fastest range-charging Tesla today, achieved 130 miles. Quite close together. Looking forward to the thumbnail of that video: "Silverado EV - A road trip monster"... The gigantic Silverado EV shows how superior 800V is and how outdated Teslas even with their already amp boosted 400V charging power are. Here is another fun example: A Zeekr 007 with a 10-80% charging time of 15min with its bigger 100kWh total battery capacity pack could achieve 200 miles in this test. If the net battery of the 100kWh battery is 93kWh, then charging from 10-80% in 15min would deliver 70% of the total net capacity back into the battery, which is 65kWh. With an efficiency of 3 miles per kWh at 80mph the Zeekr 007 would achieve. 195 miles in this 10% challenge, 50% more range than the Model 3 LR RWD achieved.

[@newscoulomb3705]

@@ErikHenriksson_ Yes, driving at 80 mph gives smaller cars an advantage, but the Silverado EV should still get at least 1.5 mi/kWh at 80 mph. Tom Moloughney just got ~2 mi/kWh at 70 mph. For the first 15 minutes of charging, the Silverado EV should average well over 300 kW on a capable charger. So that's a minimum of 115 miles, but more than likely 120-130 miles.

[@sydneyg007]

This is such a good test. You guys travel faster than us over here in Australia so here are the numbers if it was @at 70mph which is the maximum legal limit here in Australia (110kph) and generally obeyed :). M3 LR RWD efficiency @70mph(112kph) = 206wh/mile (128wh/km) compared to 269wh/mile (167wh/km) @80mph (128kph). So the 15 minute charging range gained would go from 130 miles (208km) to 170 miles (272km). I personally find it uncomfortable driving much further than that in on leg. Its also significantly longer than the recommended driving time of a maximum of 2 hours between breaks. Doing this for my own comparison benefit but maybe others may find it usefull. Hoping that we get that model here in Australia although unfortunately if we did then it would come with the LG battery :(.

[@OverlandandBeyond]

Please do a 10% challenge and 70 mph road test for the AWD Lyriq! Keep up the good work!

[@AZdroptop]

Does the charging curve here help with longevity? It seems like Tesla would have a reason for it.

[@SpottedSharks]

It does, but it's already expected to last ~ 450k miles so the curve could probably be more aggressive. Engineering Explained has a great new vid on this.

[@robinsonmac]

@@SpottedSharks I'm sure Tesla has a very good reason for not having a more aggressive curve. Unless Jason or anyone else on KZbin has actually worked on the Tesla engineering team you have no idea why the curve is what it is.

[@BBingo-v5i]

​@@SpottedSharks The poor charging curve only does help with longevity if you mean that they would otherwise run into thermal issues very fast if they would charge better, then yes, They are simply forced to do that. Teslas LR batteries degrade at a similar level than the much faster-charging competition. And here is why: People need to understand that charging power in kW are meaningless, what counts is the C-charge rate, the battery temperature, the battery chemistry and the quality of other components used. Teslas 82kWh total capacity battery pack in the Model 3 LR RWD faces 250kW peak charging power, so 3.05C (3.05x82=250). The Hyundai Ioniq 6 for example has a 77,4kWh battery and charges with 244kW peak (Hyundai says 240kW but it slightly goes higher than that), that translates to a C-charge rate of around 3.15C (77,4x3.15=244). The max stress on the battery is almost identical! So if the battery packs become equally warm during charging session there is no reason why Teslas charging curve is so bad. Are E-GMP cars charging their batteries at a much higher temperature? I don't think so. What about the battery chemistry then? Hyundai/KIA use NMC batteries and Tesla NCA, right? Limitations would probably be very similar. Maybe NCA only allows for slightly lower temperature levels for the same thermal stress level as NMC. But as far as I know the temperature range is very similar. What about the quality of the other components used? Teslas charging curves are one of the worst in the entire industry since they charge with very high amps and the cars have rather poor temperature and BMS management capabilities. Tesla simply HAS to lower the peak charging power early on since the battery and the charging cable are heating up faster than for example with 800V E-GMP cars which have rather low amp ratings, but also compared to standard 400V cars like the MEB models from Volkswagen. The cooling capability of Teslas models seems to be not powerful enough to counter that. If you have enough cooling and good software you can hold the charging curve close to its max charging power for a longer time, and we just learned that the max C-charge rate is almost identical here anyway. Simple as that. Look at the Porsche Taycan for instance. It's max C-charge rate is 3.3C, not that far off from Tesla and Hyundai/KIA. Yet it can hold its charging curve above 300kW, or 3C, to 60%. That is awesome. You can follow the battery temperature reading in the infotainment screen of the Porsche Taycan. The max. temperature the battery pack in the Taycan achieves is 58C or 136F? What temperature is it in the Tesla Model 3 LR models? Could be a bit lower, but not by crazy levels. What is the max temp in the E-GMP cars? Probably similar to the Model 3 LR models. So max charging stress level is the same and max temperature is at least similar, but Tesla only achieves that by a fast declining charging curve. That seems forced and not intentional. At least the E-GMP cars, even tho they charge significantly faster from 10-80% than any Tesla, should have the same stress levels and temperatures and therefore similar degradation levels as the Model 3 LR models. The Porsche Taycan could have slightly more degradation but nothing really crazy, in the end it also depends on the quality of materials. And Porsche clearly doesn't cheap out. Tesla's amp boosted 400V approach just simply comes to its limits and it is outdated. Standard 400V EVs already show that by having similar charging speeds from 10-80% even tho they only have 205kW max power available and not 250kW. They simply manage to achieve a better charging curve from 10-80%. Tesla is only faster for a short while and not over a longer time period. This indicates that the high amps and therefore temperature must be an issue. The industry is moving over to 800V for a reason. Not only to achieve very high charging powers but also to keep temperature at check while doing so. 800V and better cooling and BMS capabilities as well as higher quality components are needed. That costs money, money Tesla is not willing to spend.

[@GregMcNamer]

I suspect Tesla is using cheaper (as in cost efficient chemistry) cells and pushing them to their limits but with lots of careful cell characterization to ensure modest degradation. Many other OEMs use similar or better cells, but charge them much more conservatively (Ford, GM). I'm not sure where eGMP falls, but I think they're using both premium chemistry and pushing the limits. Realistically, most people will not regularly fast charge, and/or do deep fast charges. So a little extra wear for the occasional big charges is fine IMO. Porsche/Audi are using very premium/tailored batteries and a great cooling system.

[@csf1757]

@@GregMcNamer Any data that Porsche/Audi uses premium battteries, or deduction?

[@sinoevc]

I really like this video, it's like a Tesla road movie

[@SparkySho]

Starring cool Kyle

[@ElectricBrian]

I wish Teslas would show the current battery temperature and the target battery temperature when they're preconditioning.

[@SpottedSharks]

Yes, I'd like to see that added as an "Advanced" tab in the Charging menu.

[@BettyFisher-gy4sk]

I've been waiting, another upload from you!

[@galactictomato1434]

Bot

[@rui569]

The charging curve may be not as bad if you factor in battery longevity.

[@curtismacardy8213]

You need to do a show on Tesla Phantom Braking...This is a real issue that has been going on way too long.

[@chetalex1]

Hello ,thank you for your great range test on the model 3s. I would love to see a range test on the LR RWD model 3 at 80 mph. It is the normal here in south Florida. If it gets 300 miles of range at 80 mph it would be perfect. It is the reality that speeds here are higher.

[@llcooljay66]

If you think if it charged slower but go the same or close then you are much better with this car as you save more money

[@walkerdarin2003]

Having Tesla superchargers available is vastly more important than charging curve IMO. If you can't find a working charging station who cares?

[@GregMcNamer]

Mostly accurate. I think this is why things like the I-90 surge and race to Vegas are key to look at as well (and Kyle mentions this at the end)

[@mike48111]

Yes, charger availability is essential, but the charging curve is what determines how long you have to spend charging over a long trip which is the point of this video.

[@chrisak49]

Agree. Charging curve does not matter if the EA station you pull up into is full or broken. Tesla delivers a more consistent experience. I was stranded multiple times with an Ioniq6 rental at EA stations for road trips on the west coast.

[@Arpedk]

Yup, if chargers are all placed 20 miles apart throughout the highway systems you will always have a great charging expirence and never need the great curve.

[@Techridr]

I wonder if early preconditioning is not via the heat pump, but maybe motor/inverter heat harvesting. It would make sense that it takes as much "free" heat as possible then calculate the last possible moment to kick in the heat pump. That would explain why sometimes you see the preconditioning kick on very early as you say

[@FarhoodEnsan]

270 wh/mi is much higher than the result from the range test. Not sure if it’s all due to 70 vs 80 mph, or some other factors as well. In any case, great video and great car! 130 miles is about 100 minutes of highway commute so not bad at all.

[@HTX-enjoyer]

Going 80 instead of 70 is slightly over 30% extra consumption. The rest should just be the elevation change (regen only gives around 75-80% of the energy back)

[@brandondevahl552]

Data charts would be awesome at the end of the tests to compare other models. Like the doug score

[@davidws5439]

Please do a 75 mph test. Lots of highways are 70. It would also show how speed effects range.😊

[@gabrieles02]

Range test is already a 70 mph test and if you drive slower than 80 you know you can expect even better range than shown here. I appreciate Kyle for doing this an 80 mph test as pretty much all Europeans go 85+ on the highway.

[@davidws5439]

@gabrieles02 I did NOT say 70 mph, I said 75 mph. To see the difference at 75 mph.

[@dr.markevers8331]

I just drove my 2024 dual motor LR 75-85 mph from DFW- Austin and back, the range held up.

[@Snerdles]

Are you guys still adding results to the Out of Spec Studios website?

[@Someone_Cool.x3]

I love your videos!❤ one thing I'll say is, tesla has the most experience in battery thermal management. I think I'll trust their engineers on why they make the decisions they make with the charging curve. Love your analysis tho and comparisons with other competing EVs. I think if they created different charging curves for different use cases that would be amazing. Maybe with a Disclaimer on how it can affect your battery pack with the different settings if used often.

[@officialyasir]

Legacy auto has been manufacturing cars over a century, by your logic, do you trust them more compared to Tesla since they have the most experience?

[@Someone_Cool.x3]

@@officialyasir fair point. IMO Tesla is still the most innovative company at this time. When that changes, my perspective will change. The data they've accumulated in battery thermal management over the 10+ years is how they're deciding on what trade offs to make. I'm almost 100% certain that's what you're seeing here. I'm not discounting Hyundai/Kia either, they're doing amazing things!

[@officialyasir]

@@Someone_Cool.x3 Tesla is balancing cost and charging rate. It's a thermal issue for them because they are still on the 400V architecture. Increasing cooling costs more to support a better curve, or switching to 800V will cost even more and Tesla superchargers aren't even ready for that quite yet. The 800V cars can have a higher charging rate but still keep amps low thereby keeping temps down. BYD blade batteries are also pretty great that's why Tesla is using them in some variants in Europe.

[@Someone_Cool.x3]

@@officialyasir yes! I feel like 800v is in the near future on their vehicles other than the CT(currently 800v). Here's to hoping 🤞

[@randyb620]

Would like to see the 10% challenge on the Hummer.

[@abrar380]

What app do you use for battery data on your phone?

[@alancobbin]

It sucks you guys still don’t get Matrix Headlight’s in the US,Model 3 is still the efficiency king,thanks guys👍

[@joshuarosen465]

We have them now. Matrix headlights have finally been legalized in the US and Tesla has enabled them on the new Model 3. We still require side view mirrors instead of side view cameras which costs some efficiency, it will probably take 10 years for the US to catch up with Europe on that also.

[@alancobbin]

Not on the new Model 3 Kyle just tested it didn’t,the auto high beam was not highlighted as blue and not activated hence why it wasn’t blocking out beam pattern when overtaking vehicles,very strange

[@jeffs6090]

It would definitely be in Tesla's best interest to get Juniper out asap!

[@georgepelton5645]

Indicating at least 1 mph over actual speed is a NHTSA requirement, IIRC, not just Tesla "covering their ass." When NHTSA required FSD to come to a complete stop at stop signs, even with no other cars at the intersection, they complained when Tesla's fix still showed 1 mph on the screen. Tesla pointed out that that was needed due to their other requirement to always show at least 1 mph over actual speed. In the end NHTSA made Tesla stay at a complete stop longer, so it would "be perceived by the driver as a complete stop," and the display would have time to update to 0 mph.

[@CurtisLarimer]

I'd love to see Model Y long range RWD as well

[@gabrieldesantis981]

Brandon flash did one for them a couple weeks ago

[@Techridr]

The EPA numbers for Ys are about 91% - 93% of the 3s with the same battery. Not a perfect science, but that will get you close. Model Y RWD should run about 120 miles in this test

[@gabrieldesantis981]

@@Techridr referencing my comment above, the test was already done and it got 109.

[@Techridr]

@@gabrieldesantis981 Ah, ok. Missed that, thanks

[@CurtisLarimer]

@@gabrieldesantis981 Branden's test was with a car from the brief period when they sold MY LR RWD with nerfed charging. He only got 160 kW during the test. Now the charge curve should be the same as M3 LR

[@gidmorson668]

Great efficiency…. As you said don’t know why Tesla doesn’t improve the charging curve…. Wish they would make that change …

[@EricDrummondBPCP]

Great video bro keep up the great work I think what we really need to see is I want to see the lucid air pure versus the Tesla model 3 rear wheel drive long range have a good one bro I'll catch you on the next one

[@kevinmurray1569]

I dont know if it's the same in the US but in the UK tesla is significantly cheaper charging, usually 25p-45p whereas non tesla is usually between 75p-95p meaning the ionic 6 gets 13 more miles for an extra £22-£39

[@vhol93]

yes this is a mega insightful test!

[@thomasjacques5286]

We are waiting for the new Model Y.

[@FrostyAUT]

Imagine the efficiency of the Model 3 RWD LR with the super fast-charging of some Chinese EVs. I think the Zeekr 001 for example charges from 10% to 80% in about 15 minutes ...

[@tomm5936]

That would be a dream, my concern is that the battery may not last long with such fast charging. I don’t think we have data on the longevity of Chinese EVs yet.

[@franciscoribeiro9103]

Does this version have the premium interior with more speakers etc or not?

[@busog97641]

*I LOVE that car!!!*

[@SparkySho]

109%

[@woodsguykevin]

I like the idea of this test but I think 80mph is too fast. Here on the east coast there isn't anywhere you can legally drive 80mph. Since it is a relatively short test you should run it at 70 mph as well to see the difference. And while you are at, charge for 30 minutes to simulate a lunch break.

[@DefStr8up]

Is it possible to test and determine lithium plating? I would love to determine where the limit to safe mega charging is, and plating starts, to know when fast charging is too fast. Or, if there is such a point. Great test Kyle. As usual.

[@NascarAllOut]

It would be really interesting to set up a FSD Cannonball run. Every year get a group of Tesla drivers with FSD together at NYCs Red Ball Garage and see who can go the furthest before a human interaction takes place. Maybe after 10 years of these FSD Cannonball runs someone will make it out of Jersey. It would be great content though!

[@ElectricBrian]

Once you can actually sleep while FSDing a lot of people will be doing cannonball runs (at slow speeds). FSD won't go fast enough for a true cannonball run.

[@Stefan_963]

did not know that US M3 still have the Panasonic battery ? EU has LG.

[@ungallegoenmunich]

you sure the M3 Long Range RWD has the Panasonic battery in the US and LG in EU? The LG is much more reliable than the Pana.

[@Mkvkuv]

@@ungallegoenmunich yes, US uses Panny. i don't know about reliability but i know the Panny battery is more powerful

[@TesIaCH]

@@Mkvkuv *charges quicker, same capacity.

[@rocketrollsvlogs7625]

I too noticed that early pre-conditioning as well.

[@frenchy1224]

Would love to see an Ultium platform do this test! Blazer EV or Honda Prologue since they're pretty similar.

[@carcaliceasorin3770]

How do you tell if you have the Panasonic pack or not? I should receive mine in a few weeks and not sure how to check. Great video by the way :)

[@madnan7963]

Is it the LFP battery?

[@tenvillagesahead4192]

Why do you think the charging curve is so bad for a LR? Is the charging different for the LR AWD? And by how much?

[@joshuarosen465]

The AWD has the same battery pack as the LR. The 3s and Ys use the same packs but there are two battery vendors, Panasonic and LG. Panasonic batteries supposedly charge better, I'd like for Kyle to do this test on a LR Model 3 with LG batteries so see if that's true.

[@tenvillagesahead4192]

@@joshuarosen465 Yes but the LR RWD has the panasonic batteries which charge well. LR AWD (341) has panasonic too. The recent LR AWD with LG had a lower range from a different EPA testing routine I think

[@ojlise]

Here are a couple of examples of the data. { "Vehicle": "2023 Lucid Air Grand Touring (19)", "Distance Traveled at 80 mph (mi)": 144, "Energy Delivered From Charger in 15 minutes (kWh)": 46.6, "Handshake Time (sec)": 31, "Peak Charging Speed (kW)": 263, "Eff Wh/mile": 323.6, "Weight (kg)": 2450, "Drag Coefficient (Cd)": 0.21, "Battery Capacity (kWh)": 112 }, { "Vehicle": "2024 Tesla Model 3 LR (19)", "Distance Traveled at 80 mph (mi)": 100, "Energy Delivered From Charger in 15 minutes (kWh)": 34, "Handshake Time (sec)": 6, "Peak Charging Speed (kW)": 222, "Eff Wh/mile": 340.0, "Weight (kg)": 1847, "Drag Coefficient (Cd)": 0.219, "Battery Capacity (kWh)": 82 }

[@scottm.456]

Kia Ev6 for the win. 😅

[@LearningFast]

3:41 are you sure these cars ship with Hankook iON EVO tires? I believe they actually ship with the older Hankook Ventus S1 AS tires. Those are two totally different tires. The iON EVO AS is a much more efficient tire.

[@ShaneHilde]

If the Model 3 Performance range can be increased by switching to the Martian Wheels, does it stand to reason that the Model 3 RWD LR might cross 400 miles in a 100%-0% test at 70 mph.

[@YeOldeTraveller]

I don't see the link for that chart.

[@weich1q2w]

My question with RWD. How does it handle in snow? If you have all season tires is that good enough or do you need winter tires. With winter tires how it is on snow/ice compared to AWD?

[@web]

If you have snowy season in your area the rule of thumb you need snow tires for any car.

[@weich1q2w]

@@web I've ran all seasons on my 2002 Toyota Camry for 10 years now and it does just fine. But it's a front wheel drive car with a little weight. Since the Tesla's weight is evenly distributed and RWD in this case I was wondering how it would compare

[@vhol93]

super cool !

[@sombrekarma]

Thank you, when you are putting out your Interstate 90 road trip? Next Saturday?

[@ElectricBrian]

He said on the last Batteries Included Podcast it will be 4 segments starting 10/26 then 11/2, 11/9, finishing 11/16.

[@Arpedk]

How come hand-shake time is ignored? Aren't we still there where Tesla takes 5-6 seconds while some other brands/chargers is taking up to 1 minute talking with each other... I few miles is won by the Tesla by having short hand-shake time.

[@SpottedSharks]

It's about the car, not the charging network.

[@Arpedk]

@@SpottedSharks hand-shake is not only the charger

[@lemongavine]

@@SpottedSharksit’s about measuring time

[@YeOldeTraveller]

When they set the standard for this test, they chose to exclude but document the handshake time. It is about removing variability.

[@Arpedk]

@@YeOldeTraveller Maybe they should add hand-shake time to the bars in another color. That way it can be compared easily. We are talking up to 5 miles difference in this test.

[@jagankrishnan4710]

What chemistry type are Panasonic batteries? LFP or NMC?

[@2arias2]

An your dad would like to get there with negative range and get stranded on the side of the road like with the lucid of i90 🤣

[@Hansspilz]

what app are you using?

[@zzkeokizz]

When can we see the 90 Surge ❤😂

[@Cyrribrae]

For all the pushback I'm giving Tesla fans in the comments, I do think this car is the best choice for many, if not most, people. Curious how long it will be until we can get 200 miles (in ideal conditions) from 15 minutes of charging. That'll be pretty dang exciting. And I think that, maybe combined with making it cheaper to fast charge at lower SOC and more expensive to charge at higher SOC (at least in high volume areas like southern California) might also alleviate congestion without sacrificing too much convenience.

[@BBingo-v5i]

Zeekr 007 should already be able to do 200 miles of range with its bigger 100kWh total battery capacity NMC pack since it charges from 10-80% in 15min.

[@rijenz]

FYI, The lights are fully adaptive now, so the high beams stay on and sections turn off to avoid blinding other cars. 18:55

[@jsoft]

Not in the US

[@Rich-cb6gp]

The cars have the hardware to do it, but in the US it is not legal to have headlights that do that so it is not enabled. Right now in the US its just regular auto high beam, not the system that tracks cars and dims. That feature only works in Europe.

[@gregsutton2400]

could the curve you want lower battery life or something like that?

[@darrenorange2982]

I still don't understand why the curve is worse than my 2019 Model 3 Performance. It doesn't make sense.

[@Arpedk]

Yup, no need to upgrade for us with the old Model 3 until they fix that charging curve!

[@CristiCroicu]

I would not say that auto high beam doesn’t work properly. I have a similar issue with people getting annoyed about my high beams, where in fact it is the low beams. And I am not using a Tesla. I think people are just annoyed if their headlights are not that powerful and they have some vision problema

[@andreispacex012]

Is there a big difference in sound quality from the model 3 long range RWD and the AWD version? The RWD version seems a really solid option for the price point and the extreme range you get

[@davidbrownfield9289]

I can't speak to the AWD, as I have a RWD, but there is almost no cabin noise unless you are going highway speed. Then, it's only really noticeable if you're not listening to music or a podcast. The windows are double-paned and there seems to be lots of foam in the frame. You barely ever hear the motor but you kind of can if you floor it.

[@zguy95135]

Road noise would be the same between all the highland models. I have a previous gen LFP car with the standard sound system and I'm extremely happy with it, they say the premium sound is better but I have zero complaints.

[@ojlise]

Can you also add usage in kWh/mile to the test?

[@Techridr]

Divide miles driven (130) by kWh used (35) to get: 3.71 miles/kWh, (0.269 kWh/mile). But at 70 mph, its about 4.75 miles/kWh (0.211 kWh/mile)

[@SpottedSharks]

Car is $44,490 as shown w/o tax credit.

[@sxucy360hz]

$42,490*

[@parker9618]

@@sxucy360hzPaint and interior color bring it up

[@sxucy360hz]

@@parker9618you’re right 👍🏽

[@HTX-enjoyer]

If it had been a 10 minute charge (which imo seems more reasonable) it seems that the model 3 and Ioniq 6 might be even, or the model 3 might even beat it

[@Arpedk]

We can change it to 10 minute by 2030... but currently 15 minutes is the benchmark, also very difficult to be faster with the family on a roadtrip. Before everyone has been on the restroom easily 10 minutes has past.

[@GXKid06]

Wait i thought the rwd could only do 170kwh charging speed

[@usamasaid2860]

Kyle how do I know if when I purshase mine I could select the Panasonic Pack? Is there a way?

[@Cyrribrae]

Think it's just a matter of where you buy it, no?

[@Matzes]

No

[@roncolson7305]

If you qualify for the tax credit you get the Panasonic pack. The LG pack is for those that don’t.

[@ATLP3D]

6500 miles, time to rotate those tires.

[@rcpmac]

Just don’t depend on FSD until it’s been cleared by the investigation.

[@Allride_]

Close that door when using AC!

[@Brad-L]

What's more fun to drive - LR RWD vs LR AWD?

[@AustinFerguson]

Man even a 20-30% bump on charging performance would put this thing into #1 spot. Needs to hold the 250kwh longer into the 50% range before tapering off.

[@AaronMcFarland]

With my experience with my 2023 Model Y at 38% or higher you don't benefit choosing a V3 over a V2 supercharger, so choose what the closest is to you if you need charge.

[@PeaceChanel]

Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 ✌ ☮ ❤

[@5Breaker]

And I’m watching this video in my ariya with 115kw (Vehicle max.) waiting for at least 30 minutes

[@SparkySho]

Lacey??

[@maj429]

Hah yeah and I have the bolt... 54 max peak power, tapering down to 25 ish around 60%soc. 115kw would be a dream

[@franklong6269]

I think you are making way too much about the charging speed of this car. I own a 2022 RWD Model 3 base model and when I have gone on trips and we supercharge, we literally spend 15 minutes at our stops. We took a trip that was roughly 400 miles one way. The trip required two stops. The first stop was about 12 minutes. The second was about 16 minutes. That's it, that's all that was required to go 400 miles on my car which gets around 225 - 240 miles of range. We should have stopped anyway for food, coffee, and bathroom breaks.. The Model 3 charges very fast for trips.

[@ZachMeador]

I'll be very curious to see in a few years if the ioniqs have worse average battery degredation because of their high charging curve

[@evoallover]

Why 80 mph ?

[@ElectricBrian]

To give an equal comparison of all the cars they test, at a speed realistic for where they do the test, and for huge portions of the country.