Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! Is In Meltdown

[@MBTYuGiOh]

>competitive YGO >peeps in the thumbnail

[@nouvelle147]

Don't do him like that man...

[@astercat49]

@nouvelle147 I mean, he ain’t wrong though. Mr. Earth Machine Best Deck isn’t exactly known for his good opinions on competitive Yugioh.

[@GrieveIV]

Based mbt response

[@scizor285]

TRUEEEEEEE

[@olyviermonteau4300]

tenpai to war rocks after they betray tenpai, agreeing to come out together: "#theynotlikeus"

[@thefool304]

>scripts the video >wears his leather jacket >turns on the camera "Sangan summoning"

[@A.LeMayo]

kek

[@SkyFireYZ]

Kino

[@FNigslol]

Hes cringe af

[@maxs_420_grow]

looks like Andrew Tate but with a squeaky voice

[@gearhead6042]

Competitive Yu-Gi-Oh! Is In Meltdown?! It must be a day that ends in Y.

[@nightworrior721]

I see what you did there

[@daedalus5253]

Yes, it’s Dienstag

[@crimsecretxd-ex9fb]

Es is Dienstag es ist mein Dienstag ich bin das warendifferenzierzngsmodul( weiter weiß ich nicht)

[@nasch3391]

u forgot adding "TCG" in there

[@AttackOnToxix]

Wait but its Tomorrow

[@Zetact_]

Tenpai Player 1: "I won the die roll, you go first." Tenpai Player 2: "Heat Wave, pass." Tenpai Player 1: "Heat Wave, pass."

[@StrangeSynergy]

Yea would’ve been nice if they gave them something going first so they don’t rely on annoying floodgates

[@MadmaN_The_Sage]

Most of the builds don’t main heat wave shifter however is a diff story

[@dingding12321]

Tenpai player 2: "One Day of Peace, pass." Tenpai player 1: "Pass." Tenpai player 2: Special Summo- Tenpai player 1: "Send Ghost Reaper and Winter Cherries." Tenpai player 2: "Crossout."

[@ashikjaman1940]

​​@@dingding12321 Delta

[@ducky36F]

Snake eye player one: I have 2 hand traps and 2 starters Snake eye player two: damn only one hand trap. Okay game 2?

[@SilverHyozanryu]

Turns out all you have to do to make the bp good is just to completely ignore the mp.

[@maunabesanika]

Also ignore opponent cards apparently

[@colossaldonut5190]

Yeah when you turn all their cards into blank sheets of cardboard it really does help the deck.

[@monkfishy6348]

BP? No no no, MP1.5

[@DaShikuXI]

Honestly one of the biggest problems YGO has had throughout the years is a massive emphasis on the main phase over the battle phase. It should have stayed more balanced. Now the main phase is so prominent that indeed you just have to ignore it if you want to thrive in the battle phase.

[@ave4622]

and floodgates to skip their turn

[@eliascsjunior]

New players: Yugioh is too difficult Competitive players: Yugioh is too easy

[@N12015]

Because both are oddly right. YGO is not difficult, it's overly convoluted and filled with artificial barriers called bad card text, full of "Well, akshually" moments like missing the timing, costs or summoning floodgates.

[@leviathan5207]

It's not about being "too easy". Rather it's about decks such as tenpai being not very interactive, which I think everyone dislikes (except stun andys)

[@Kaheiyattsu221]

@@leviathan5207 10 negate baords also aren't interactive but people seem to lick the boots of combo meta

[@monkfishy6348]

@@Kaheiyattsu221 Yes they are, because you can stop combo decks with handtraps and unrespondable board breakers. Tenpai says no to most handtraps and boardbreakers don't work because they are doing second.

[@tiamat6669]

@@monkfishy6348 it is kinda ironic you argue that huge negate boards are interactive because UNRESPONDABLE board breakers are an answer to such boards

[@juantrapasso]

Snake Eye complaining another deck is unfair Lmao 🤣🤣🤣

[@GutsmanLoL]

Noobs that can’t top locals thinking snake eye is unfair 😂😂😂

[@four-en-tee]

Idk if poor people are the same thing as noobs, but there is often an overlap.

[@juantrapasso]

@@four-en-tee basically you're just mad you spent over 1k for some cards and a new deck is better and cheaper 🤣

[@LS-qs9ju]

​​@@four-en-teeMeanwhile the people who think Snake Eye is fair is all noobs. Not a single pro think it's fair. Not in OCG, and especially not in TCG.

[@orga7777]

@@LS-qs9ju All the generic negates are gone and the deck is very hard to play optimally. The deck isn't that toxic overall. The problem is that it is a very fast deck and can get rolling off one card. However, that is just standard at this point. You are acting like the deck prevents you from playing the game or something. It doesn't anymore.

[@m.rasyidhibatullah7775]

Black Rose Dragon LMAO🤣

[@DerSisch]

"Seals pass is basically an FTK" - Glasgow YGO

[@mysteriousf7940]

Ok guys, but with all due respect. How are you not prepared for tenpai at this point. It’s a little ridiculous to not have a well thought out plan when entering a tournament.

[@Thot-Slayer-420]

what's your plan against tenpai, then?

[@Coolest_Name]

its just a poorly designed archetype. the whole deck is just designed to be un-interactive.

[@fatcat2015]

Cannot believe someone said this about Mystic Mine.

[@JAWZxz]

@@Coolest_Name you got got

[@Al-tanin]

​@@Coolest_Name yeah because 7 negate boards are soooo interactive. At least tenpai ends it quick. They either die in 5 mins or otk in 5 mins. At least i don't have to sit through a 12 minutes combo of some neckbeard moving card with his greasy hands

[@zerochill4096]

>Players complain about a Deck being bad >Players complain about a Deck being good Isn't this basically a majority of Yugioh discussion in a nutshell?

[@trippersigs2248]

If you look at with zero understanding of the game or the basic concept of nuance then yes.

[@trutyatces8699]

Or yes if you look at it with complete understanding of the game and the basic concept of nuance.

[@zerochill4096]

@@trutyatces8699 I'll take that as confirming what I said because what I have seen inspires no confidence in the idea that the louder Yugioh community understands the concept of nuance

[@lulzvg]

@@zerochill4096 TRUE

[@williamdrum9899]

This is every tcg

[@rolandholmdahl797]

Buster Blader: The Dragon Destroyer Swordsman would like to know your location.

[@kappadarwin9476]

Yeah Buster Blader is seeing the Yu-gi-oh fandom melt down over Tenpai and continues reading the newspaper.

[@Citizen_Nappa23]

Lol

[@fitduckyyt]

At my locals I’ve been siding in the entire tempi engine when going second outside from a bit of extra deck space it actually works and it’s hilarious

[@Siegfriedmuetz]

War Rock walked so Tenpai could run. Can I get an Amen to my brother Mammud 🙏🙏🙏

[@maxxcreese9911]

Amen mammud

[@llamaryder1]

Amen mammud

[@maskofthedragon]

Less walked and more crawled around with non-functioning legs

[@potatoexe5410]

Dragonmaids did it before War Rock

[@66Roses]

Gladiator Beasts walked so that War Rock could walk so that Tenpai could run.

[@aero4856]

An archetype being released in 2024 without a one-card combo is doomed to be ignored and/or laughed at. Unless of course they ban like 10% of the card pool.

[@four-en-tee]

Please god

[@ЯрославЧервяков-ф9в]

Just. Add. F*cking. Limits on special summoning, like 5 in total per turn. It will bring all decks to a fair fight, as normal and competitive decks will now have to choose what they actually want to summon right now.

[@tri3sweat]

that just makes the better decks better and the worse decks worse

[@justmega9569]

​@@ЯрославЧервяков-ф9вno. No. Absolutely not. There's some deck that LITERALLY end on NOTHING in 5 summons because of how they're made. This is just a bad idea

[@wickederebus]

​@user-wp2wp3vh8e do you use your brain as a bowling ball? Because that is the smoothest, densest take I have seen all week.

[@emanuelstornello8009]

with that jacket farfa is officially the drippiest of all yu gi oh players

[@stereotypicalemousername9507]

i regularly show up to locals dressed as an 80s punk it’s great

[@0mn0m15]

​@@stereotypicalemousername9507You play a P.U.N.K. deck, or have some sort of P.U.N.K. engine?

[@stereotypicalemousername9507]

@@0mn0m15 nah i’m currently on spright twins and working on a hero deck

[@0mn0m15]

@@stereotypicalemousername9507 oh ok lol. Just thought it'd be cool and funny to ask if you play P.U.N.K. lmao

[@four-en-tee]

More drip than Trif?

[@KestaTalis]

Its crazy people are just now realizing how strong the generic non-engine cards are now that there's a deck that can win with only like 7-9 engine cards

[@Setsuzoku]

"Wehhh, my thousand dollar deck that has been Tier Zero for months and still is Tier Zero loses sometimes"

[@dissidiamaniac460]

Honestly, I would love to play tenpai but already made my bed choosing to play raika

[@dariuspenner2528]

Based off top cut results from events after LEDE, SE isn’t tier 0 anymore. Even if you lump every single deck that has a SE engine in it as the same deck (pure, Kashtira SE, Fire King SE, RACE SE, etc.) it gets

[@AndrewUdal]

@@dariuspenner2528yea but but it’s conversation rate basically is. 6/8 top cut in ycs is a lot.

[@maverickrx8]

"What's the point of playing a game you're not even allowed to play while playing it?" Is my thought process in regards to modern ygo.

[@ANDELE3025]

Which is ironically what Tenpai solves in their own cards by forcing interactivity before players filled 1/4th to 1/3rd the deck with negates from hand.

[@Nexit1337]

and the worst thing of all, the entire tenpai core fits perfectly in the side deck, you can litterally change deck mid game tbis way 🗿

[@GaussianEntity]

Sidedecking another main deck is back. Lessss goooo!

[@xXNeoNashXx]

Tenpai labyrinth less go

[@deadlineuniverse3189]

Tenpai is just unapologetic red aggro

[@Ninetale3z]

True

[@GaussianEntity]

Aka unga bunga and it's finally back

[@gutsbadguy50]

Yeah but you can interact with RDW.

[@DC...]

Forever red?

[@JustCallMeJick]

Yeah but at least Swiftspear dies to murder

[@MarioLopez-xs3vc]

I find most of the problem has to do with the strength of non-engine. Hand Traps were originally meant to shut off FTK and other ways of basically ending the game in one turn, but powercreep has made it so easy to just outright kill your opponent at the tip of a hat that all they're doing now is making difficult boards even more difficult to out/survive against. Going first decks are just using them to cripple other going first boards so they can make their going first board when going second, and pretty much every going second plan(even "going first" decks often have this kind of side option btw) has some kind of helmet option that renders those hand traps useless, or worse a liability, so they can either OTK or outresource the opponent(Dinos have Misc, Sky Striker has Multirole + unrespondable Spells, Cyberse piles and Link spammers have a massive cascade of extenders(including sometimes Charmers that can climb using an opponent's outed cards and hand traps) to get to Accesscode/Terahertz, XYZ decks set up battle protection/direct attacks to make a Zeus). And all of those going second decks/options can and usually do run hand traps to either soften up a board for easier OTKs, or supplement their end board if they fail to OTK to make recovery impossible even if you topdeck ways to blow up their board. The main difference with Tenpai compared to other going second options is that their Helmet option is their ENTIRE gameplan designed to OTK when it succeeds, and leaving them wide open when it doesn't. Dinos at least have their big bunguses able to do something when the board they set up doesn't kill, and Misc protection can be used for ANY Main Phase, while Multirole is simultaneously designed to facilitate End Phase plays and a light grind game(that gets heavier if cards like Imperial Iron Wall or Lancea are utilized, but those are rarely necessary and can conflict with certain other tools) that leaves just enough on the table to punish most recovery attempts from actual "grindy" opponents. If I want "skill expression" with Tenpai though, all I have to do is replace the random hand traps with an engine that gives it an end board or at least a going first option, that buzzword is a literal non-argument. People are already making plans to smokescreen with stuff like Labrynth or Centurion cards to do going first plays after siding, and give it a month for the new Sky Striker cards and we'll see "full" going second variants that don't immediately fold to having the field spell be popped early or anti-Synchro/Damage shenanigans. Heck, you don't even NEED the new cards for that, forcing out the interactions that can stop the field spell can be done with current Striker toolbox spells, the new Links just give it more things to do under D.Barrier. The problem with using extra engines though is that hand traps are the "easy" option, and competitive play often rewards getting more done with less thought involved due to how long games can get and events often being an endurance fest.

[@fmasxd5691]

If people are mad about Tenpai being capable of those powerful things, then I would argue that's a problem with Yugioh's incessant power creep and not just one archetype. Also, a complicated game should have some amount of obvious/easy to play decks. I also hear people complaining about a new player problem and it sounds like they made an archetype tailor-made for newbies that can provide them with some early on success.

[@GaussianEntity]

Also all the scrubs have forgotten how to play in the Battle Phase because they're so used to burning all their interactions during the Main.

[@lambtoken2708]

Yes and yes. You speak the truth

[@NAAAAAIL]

I cant wait till I can play this deck on master duel in 2027

[@Gnnarr03]

Look how fast we get sneak eye Tenpai will be soon here don t worry

[@GutsmanLoL]

@@Gnnarr03I love sneaking with sneak eye

[@Test-mq8ih]

Inb4 Tenpai will come to master duel next month lmao

[@BayonettaResi5]

and of course every card will be a ur in master duel

[@alexv5581]

Do you even play Master duel? Lol My guess is you don't.

[@Timeater]

Hey, watch out for the Gimmick Puppet field spell!

[@Ruby_Mullz]

We complained going 2nd needs to be better, now we have the best going 2’d and people are hating on it.

[@rtballinranger9368]

Excepr Tenpai is unstoppable

[@raystrife234]

​​@@rtballinranger9368 that's the thing about how yugioh right now moving forward. The standard is so high that anything stoppable is considered tier 3 or lower. If tenpai was stoppable, no one would play it in competitive.

[@colossaldonut5190]

People complained about War Rocks too much so now we have this.

[@rtballinranger9368]

@@raystrife234 I think Tenpai is better than Zoo ever could have been

[@Sniperfuchs]

There are some crybabies, but the core of the hate is fair criticism. If you need to make an effect that reads "your opponent can't interact with you except for some very, very specific things" just because turn 1 boards are so powerful, then this is a sign that Konami should take a hard look at a way to fix this long term. Stopping most interaction is a very bad way to fix this because it kind of makes the problems with modern Yugioh even more pronounced: Sometimes it feels very all or nothing unless you draw the specific out. It's a bit like saying "people want a perfectly balanced game, so why don't they enjoy competitive coin flipping? It's 50-50, can't be more balanced than that!". Very little skill expression, very all or nothing. Tenpai feels a bit like that.

[@ChrisF-]

Another problem that he never spoke about is the side decking: You can run full power Labrynth (For example) turn one then use your 15 card side deck to straight up switching to full power Tenpai for going second to OTK your opponent.

[@Rhapsodyizz]

Its not optimal at all to do though

[@dhanyl2725]

Snake eyes is another deck with a small core, so maybe...

[@joseruizdiaz9622]

Tenpai is a nice experiment that allows us to experience what's necessary for a deck to be viable going second, and also highlights more weaknesses about yugioh.

[@hannessteffenhagen61]

You don't even need trident, it's good to have as an option but you can do ridiculous damage without it too

[@olyviermonteau4300]

Who would have thought that a BATTLE focused deck would be called toxic, finally.

[@LS-qs9ju]

Numeron in MD for some time

[@mickjaegar2379]

Mikanko in MD:

[@olyviermonteau4300]

@@mickjaegar2379 mikanko is an equip based archetype, not battle focused. battling is its main goal, HOWEVER: the primary start is their equip spells.

[@olyviermonteau4300]

@@LS-qs9ju it do be like that.

[@FromTheDeck]

War Rocks in shambles

[@jimsface]

Black rose dragon lmao I can’t think of anything better

[@mfznal-hafidz8592]

"Tenpai is the most toxic deck ever" I hope this guy is not the one who says "battle effect is still a thing? Trash!"

[@garfrockbreadtroll]

a drave vs kendrick reference was the last thing i expected from a farfa video lmao

[@coldwintersknight9793]

Ah yes, "Black Rose Dragon LMAO". Something the AI in one of my old yugioh games would do constantly

[@KevinTangYT]

It's almost like the game needs to move away from 1 card combo design. Not Tempai or Snake Eyes specific, but this is an intentional decision in game design on Konami's part.

[@N12015]

Cannot be done unless they start banning handtraps and said one card combos.

[@ANDELE3025]

1 cards that dont give option to go outside of their archetype and dont +12 but at most +1 by the end of the combo even fine. Anti interactivity like cheap splashable omni negate, +n where n is any number above 0 splashable self-cylcing or searching start+extender cards from any position (or n is a number above 1 if its a hard once per duel card), handtraps and "outright cant even attempt to normal summon" cards are the crux of the design flaws.

[@jofx4051]

The game starts moving towards 1 card combo and this is why it is causing powercreep so much Tenpai, VV, Snake Eyes, even Yubel are 1-1.75 card combo

[@THEGRUMPTRUCK]

>New archetype comes out. >'X' archetype/cards have yugioh in a meltdown. A tale as old as time.

[@jeffreytam7684]

I'd say that Kashtira was actually one of the best decks at going both first and second, both in terms of design and in practical terms. *I say this in a very narrow sense, because the deck had “other problems”*

[@olyviermonteau4300]

remember war rocks? it walked so tenpai can drive a Mercedes benz ALG BLK drive.

[@kappadarwin9476]

Yeah War Rocks wish they were as ruthlessness as Tenpai

[@reikolupus136]

Tenpai: You can do nothing to stop me! I'm unstoppabl-! Me: I Side Decked Threatening Roar and Battle Fader. Tenpai: ...I quit.

[@kappadarwin9476]

Shout out to Thunder of Ruler.

[@northernemo72]

"On your draw phase I flip dragon capture jar"

[@aesiro13]

"I activate Smoke Mosquito!" (opp instantly forfeits)

[@samuelestes6034]

I have no issue with tenpai as a strategy what my issue is with is the amount of non engine it can run. This goes for snake-eye too, I don't like the trend of being able to have half my deck be non-engine and still being able to access my combos reliably.

[@musiyevonchilla6769]

With 20+ Handtraps: how do u NOT brick with those in almost every single game? 😂

[@Binzob]

They only need 1 engine card and can otk lol.

[@jofx4051]

You will brick at some point though but irl the deck may not be randomized properly irl and you just need 1 card to give you huge output and possibly follow-up

[@Realblack_m0nster]

The power of math

[@arobnugzo6818]

you DO brick, but that doesn't matter sometimes. You can skip a few of the opponent's turns with your handtraps until you draw engine

[@FakeHeroFang]

I mean, if you brick that just means you have 6 hand traps. Opponent ain't doing shit either for 1-2 turns, if that's the case. OCG/MD gets the funny cockroach to unbrick their hand, so it'll be even more painful over there

[@kingv-raptor840]

All I’m hearing is if Tenpai can have Sangen summoning. Dinosaurs can get Misc back to 3. That or we are going to see the Tenpai field spell to 1 2025.

[@TURBO1000YuGiOh]

8:57 Trident Dragion is a Rare in Master Duel! Yay! Wait, actually... that means everyone will be playing Tenpai. Oh man...

[@yuricahere]

Don't worry, when konami sees a deck perform well on paper, they will UR bump every card when bringing it to MD

[@tonitaipalus8722]

It has pretty big change to have atleast 2 of the main deck monsters and field spell as UR

[@Julius064]

Nah the field spell, two main deck boss monsters, and the synchro are all gonna be UR I can feel it.

[@FakeHeroFang]

Field spell and best starter will be URs guaranteed, do not expect this deck to be cheap. Komoney doesn't release cheap decks anymore unless they're dogshit AND the rest of the pack is stacked.

[@randomUser2121]

Going second doesn't need to be stronger. Going first needs to be less powerful.

[@flameknightdragon]

thing is that is not going to happen until going first decks are banned into oblivion. going first has been busted since he started the era of brainless combo decks.

[@GaussianEntity]

​@@flameknightdragon Going first has been busted before that. Even going all the way back to Goat. Getting to set the first backrow was too much of an advantage to bear with the best decks.

[@invertbrid]

Not gonna happen sadly. They shouldve make going second more powerful instead. Tenpai is pretty good direction,

[@dx91mike]

Kashtira full power still holds the title for most toxic deck. Locking your opponents main monster and spell/trap zone. You literally had to have lava golem or a kaiju to even get to do anything. Macro cosmo with legs too. Full power kashtira was not fun.

[@XanKreigor]

Same with full power Tearlaments before half their cards got forbidden or limited to 1 lol. Worst part is Kashtira-Tearlaments was a very viable combo.

[@HandleDeeezNutz]

​@@XanKreigor Testaments was very interactive though, literally the point of it being tier 0 was that it can even interact with my grandma in her coffin at turn 0. When you play mirror with it, it becomes a convuluted mess that only the good players have fun with. Kashtira was basically: if successful at combo = lock enemy = if enemy no out = win. Tearlaments was: you scratch your chin at your turn = builds a whole board = huh?

[@TheRealAquaz]

​@@XanKreigor nah tear was fun because it was full of Interactions. Kashtira is just borring

[@poopyfartboi]

Ojama: am I a joke to you Us: yes

[@Kevinhearts]

Bro didnt even mention the in-archetype Calamity to lock out your opponent in Batlle phase aswell.

[@FloatingAmongTheCosmos]

Also the answer to the question "How do you make a going second deck good but also balanced and healthy?" is obviously Tenpai but healthy and balanced? Those two words have been dead for the longest time or have been constantly revived and killed within the same day they came back. Reject balance, embrace complete bullshit cause it'll never go away.

[@edpaolosalting9116]

Yep. And that is why I only stick to Master Duel now IF I ever want to go back. Paper Yugioh does not give an incentive for me to "stick" with a deck given it is expensive and the eternal format always being oppressive. Compare that to say Pokemon where cards are affordable, or MTG where I can play commander with paper cards as I know the format is fair in a normal setting. (4-man pod) And I am guaranteed 5-6 turns at least before a combo goes off. Yugioh does not provide any avenues for any of that.

[@eyal28282]

You can OTK through prosperity while the opponent has 16k LP thanks to playing Aroma

[@ninacochrane569]

Funny how Yugioh players love one card combos and unaffected bosses that lead into tons of negates, but the *moment* a deck comes out that says "no, you can't negate me" that *also* has a one card combo, suddenly it's a problem.

[@yuseifido5706]

nobody likes those things. when has anyone ever said that?

[@kazileon1994]

It always been like "It's fine if it's me but not for someone who plays better or against me" that's how people have been complaining when it comes to card games

[@Lynn3011]

The issue isn't "you can't negate me". The issue is "Either you kill the field spell, or you literally can not interact". One card combos can be interrupted, quite easily actually, because there are like 7 viable (meaning, they are good in most match ups) handtraps, each of which you can run at 3 (kinda how Tenpai does it) and unaffected bosses are actually quite rare, there's mostly floating and maybe targetiing or destruction immunity - The number of cards that stop Tenpai AND are at least ok-ish against other decks is far lower.

[@lagxus7445]

Totally agree. Total hypocrisy

[@jeanriviere2599]

>either kill the field spell or you cannot interact Then play Cosmic Cyclone, MST, or some Quick spell removal ? With ALL the bullshit happening in YGO, well, adapt. Is it bullshit ? Yes, but so is YGO since 2004 and maybe even before that. So after 20 years of utter unfair crap, you would expect people to either adapt or quit altogether instead of bitching on the internets.

[@dandylion4037]

it's funny how you can prevent Tenpai from going apeshit on you using the most weird cards like Threatening Roar and Woboku, etc.

[@KitoAkari1612]

Waboku doesn’t stop them from attacking and building up resources, so Threatening Roar is more… threatening

[@DeadbeatShadows]

I find the discussion of player/skill expression very interesting, because it has a lot crossover with fighting games (along with a lot of other things from card games). But the fact of the matter is, there is almost always an optimal route or combo. The correct starter for the situation into a string of moves that maximizes damage and positions you to deal with what your opponent may respond with or to continue your offensive. Expression often falters and withers away in the face of optimization. But it FEELS GOOD to do the swag play, to gamble on the line you practiced for such a situation because your opponent expects you to go for the optimal play, not some out of pocket play that throws them off their game. So the value of expressiveness is very much up for debate in the era of optimal plays.

[@OhitsONnow]

More often, people respect the "swag plays" more too. There's always an element of showboating in games. So to make something be "good" it has to show off and be effective?

[@MacMens0100]

Even then I would say there is a lot of expression in finding an optimal play in an adverse situation. Its one thing to do something cool when given free reign its another to pull out something decent while under pressure.

[@stereotypicalemousername9507]

@@OhitsONnowthere was a guy at my locals who had this fun little utopia combo line he ran in traptrix that i always found funny to watch

[@doublereel-real]

I'd argue there isn't really an optimal combo in high level yugioh, most of the time. A lot of the time, what you can do depends on what you have and what interactions your opponent has used, it's rare that you have a pre-prepared combo for the exact situation you are in. This is why yugioh is so hard, because you need to understand what your opponent might have left and play around it as much as possible while conserving your resources while considering that your opponent might be bluffing not have a nib or other game ending handtrap. Fighting games tend to have an optimal combo for the most damage possible off of the move you land with and without meter. TLDR: Yugioh combos have to be adapted to the situation, there is usually not a researched optimal combo for any 5 card hand. Fighting game combos have optimal meter and meterless versions and thats about it. They combo in different ways, I don't think the analogy quite works.

[@DaShikuXI]

Skill expression is recognizing which starter is the correct starter for the situation, and which string of moves should follow. Personal expression falters in the face of optimization, but skill expression does not necessarily.

[@Anans1_Spyd3r]

I won't even attempt to be clever. The issue with decks like Floo, Mikano and Tenpai is that they break a mechanic in Yugioh that Konami failed to update to modern play. The frustration as a modern player is your deck was created for the mainstream and now when lose games because of this niche concept you are fairly frustrated. You can cater your techs to both the mainstream and this niche deck. You just have wait until niche becomes mainstream while losing games

[@dreadgear9683]

With every point brought up it doesn't sounds like Tenpai is the issue but going first and combot decks are too explosive. Like sorry just look what they had to give to this deck to be able to be viable as a go second strategy. 1 card starter, 20 hand traps, immunity, and 40k damage.

[@dariuspenner2528]

Except that sort of blanket “you can’t interact with me” has been done before and received the same backlash. Magical Midbreaker Field was played in Gouki to make them functionally immune to hand traps and got limited. Misc gives Dinos the same sort of protection going first and second and has been hit multiple times. Yugioh is a game about interaction. Cards that don’t allow that to happen have been tried before and have always been hit. Combo also has been dealt with and will likely continue to be dealt with. The best omni negates have been banned and almost every relevant floodgate has been either limited or banned. Decks have also gotten more and more flexible to the point where going second isn’t an issue. With the exception of a handful of formats like Infernoble with their hand loop and Adamancipator, going second has been doable since as far back as TOSS. It’s not ideal to go second, but there are so many busted tools for going second and decks are flexible enough that breaking boards is more than doable at this point.

[@edpaolosalting9116]

@dariuspenner2528 Can I just ask, why cannot Yugioh just print a spell or trap card that counterspells from hand like MTG? Like why can't they make trap cards activate from hand anytime? Are they really scared of normal trap meta?

[@dariuspenner2528]

@ edpaolosalting9116 Because negation tools like that are way too strong to have that easy access from hand. The closest we’ve had to that are cards like Gamma or Imperm, both of which required you to have an empty board to use from hand. Gamma also required you to run a garbage vanilla and still ended up being limited because it’s too strong. As for why there isn’t a mechanic change to have trap cards be usable from hand, even if you only applied this to normal traps you’d still end up with issues akin to what Labrynth can do. Every deck would potentially be able to Eradicator turn 0 and rip all spells or traps from hand immediately, Karma Cannon becomes a completely board wipe, The Black Goat Laughs becomes an uninteractive shut down an entire name, etc. There’s too many insanely strong normal traps to blanket let them be played for free from hand. It wouldn’t just benefit trap decks. Every single meta deck would benefit from that. Counterspells are already irritating in magic and make blue obnoxious to play against, but get balanced by cards having actual costs. Yugioh doesn’t have that because the card is the resource, which makes card draw and negation way more valuable in Yugioh to the point where free +1s are banned and Baronne (a single negate while it’s on the field) is banned

[@quanglk5331]

I mean people had complained about mikanko being broken going 2nd in MD (mainly Huli prevent target effects btw), so no surprise Tenpai is getting the same treatment lol

[@FakeHeroFang]

MFW crying about a deck that needs kaijus and equip spells to do anything. If they hate Mikanko, Tenpai is prolly gonna make them quit lol

[@quanglk5331]

@@FakeHeroFang those are mainly the combo decks players, they hate that decks can just have simple combo lines and prefer to do their 30 mins combo lol

[@Realblack_m0nster]

I like tenpai dragon. Its the only way for me to actually be competitive in my local scene where all the good players have optimal snake-eye builds. I cannot afford to play snake-eye so i play tenpai dragon. Before anyone says "just play floo" or x budget deck, i also enjoy going second more than going first, i dont like the birds either.

[@Mt.Berry-o7]

People can't tell you what to play, if the cards are legal you have every right to use them. Also, someone suggesting floo has already lost the argument before they began speaking.

[@grodon909]

@@Mt.Berry-o7 What's wrong with floo? the cards are legal, so you have every right to use them.

[@autobotstarscream765]

​@@grodon909Bird Floo is arguably more toxic.

[@OhitsONnow]

The Age of Fire has returned. Free from the age of the dark, people are flaming angry

[@mateusrp1994]

Honestly, its very nice to have a deck that can look at a turn 1 board/grave/ht with more interactions than you have cards in hand and say "black rose dragon lmao"

[@dakeyress]

I've had my trident dragon for years. In my blue eyes deck way back with magna dragon. I loved this card (non competitive yugioh, but to me that's the way yugioh is the best)

[@dariuspenner2528]

Blanket “you don’t get to interact with me” just isn’t healthy from a gameplay point of view. The game is at its most enjoyable when you can actually play around stuff. Uninteractive card design is why I’ve hated spell speed 4 cards and cards like Kaijus/Lava Golem/Sphere Mode that just kill your board without giving a response window. The game is at its most fun when you can interact with your opponent. Their field spell is like Magical Midbreaker Field on steroids and that card got limited because interactivity is something that’s important. Same goes for Misc. I also heavily disagree with the idea that going second is bad. It’s not optimal to go second, but with the exception of a couple formats, we haven’t had to deal with unbreakable boards since like Magician’s Souls Spyral or the Thunder Dragon pile that spat out Agarpain to get Hot Red Abyss. Especially now with the main generic omni negates banned, breaking boards is easier than it’s been in ages. Going second isn’t a death sentence and really hasn’t been since like Gouki u-link/Gumblar format

[@mecurseyoumimikyu4701]

Tenpai: were unstoppable!! Threatening roar: am I a joke to you?

[@TheDarcaneify]

So they then Pivit in Doing a Promethean Combo ending on a somewhat hard to break bord, and try their Tenpai Combo in the next Turn anyway.

[@NyxDemiseMusic]

As a floo player, i can confirm i do not exist

[@Thot-Slayer-420]

therapist: floo players aren't real, they can't hurt you :

[@Kutan]

Wait, who said that? Hello!?... Eh, just the Wind.

[@TheMadTurtle]

We wish lawl

[@CulcoyoteCosmico]

4:35 As a new player that picked up Invoked as a cheap engine for my fusion deck I can say yes, this is right, however there is nothing yet as fun for me as going second, baiting the Ash with Magical Meltdown, then summon a Purgatrio on a full board, is like releasing a pitbull on a kindergarten Sometimes it eats the entire school, sometimes it gets put down immediately like the rabid dog he actually is.

[@kapwns]

"skill expression" is really just an expression of how many KZbin combo lines one has memorized.

[@nico-wj1mh]

Lol

[@MasterSam911]

Bad Brain, Bad Brain, Keeps Hearing Hen*** instead of tenpai

[@FairyFarron]

Tenpai looks fun and it's dragons so I'll definitely try it in master duel

[@JustANewHunter]

tenpai will prob be borderline tier 0 in master duel unless they pre-emptively hit it lol

[@FairyFarron]

@@JustANewHunter I could see them limiting the field spell like they did with Kashtiera and Tear

[@fatcat2015]

@@JustANewHunterpeople said something similar about Mikanko

[@JustANewHunter]

@@fatcat2015 fair, but tenpai is stronger hell if anything mikanko will prob see more use once tenpai drops there ig time will tell for sure

[@johnlucas2838]

@@JustANewHunter Honestly, there are some cards in the game that make it so your opponent can't activate effects in the battle phase. And well I mean there is the battle stall cards but those don't skip the Battle Phase like Chacu does.

[@l3oogle]

2:23 laughs in karma cannon

[@scottsocia7828]

Honestly, the first moment I saw Tenpais on their announcement in OCG, I was super hyped to play them. This was regardless of them being good or bad and I'm honestly happy they are good. I also bought a bunch of the cards before LeD released so, I didn't need to pay out the hundred dollars for Dragion

[@Excalis3344]

you are very smart indeed. trident is dsigracfully expensive now😂

[@scottsocia7828]

@Excalis3344 yeah, I looked up the price I think 2 weeks after I bought mine and it went up over $40 and I was flabbergasted

[@Mana_DragonYGO]

Yo same! I actually thought they weren’t going to be good so I bought the needed cards early, so I got my Trident Dragion for $10

[@wickederebus]

​@@Excalis3344it will be in an OTS pack soon.

[@maskofthedragon]

7:44 That's one way of always getting the first attack

[@ManuelRiccobono]

Making your card uneffected is not fun. Floodgating your opponent with a card they cannot interact with is not fun. Otk your opponent after having prevented them from playing the game is not fun.

[@flameknightdragon]

watching the opponent spend 5-15 minutes brainlessly comboing is not fun.

[@Koalogy]

⁠@@flameknightdragonclosing your hand in a car door is not fun

[@ANDELE3025]

Wrong, partially right with heavy clauses and right. Boss monsters being actual bosses or a lynchpin easily destroyed S/T giving protection during 1/10 phases of a round aka during 1/5 phases of one players turn doesnt do anything. As in it literally doesnt prevent any interactivity (normal traps like trap hole) that isnt already invalidated by modern pace and +x cards flooding the game. Floodgates are bad when they are stacked to the point where even a normal summon doesnt work, otherwise perfectly fine and fun. OTK because deck runs 15 handtraps is cancer.

[@sendhelp4376]

@@flameknightdragon You do realize those 2 things are not mutually exclusive right?

[@invertbrid]

​@@flameknightdragonfacts. Shouldve just play solitaire smh

[@VinTheDirector]

That title could describe many Yugioh videos in the past few years tbh

[@AceTrainerLupi]

If I had a nickel for each budget, strong, easy to play, Synchro-oriented deck, based on Chinese dragons I would have two nickels, which isn't much . . . End of sentence.

[@mapeus]

Tenpai being called toxic is fitting, given mahjong (the one that's not solitaire) pisses people off in some form or another

[@SlackerXYZ]

Tenpai: loses to 1 interruption. Also tenpai: apparently unfair

[@MrGeorgFTW]

If only there were cards in the game that could remove or negate a field spell. They should really make one.

[@mymetallicarulez]

@@MrGeorgFTW Ghost ogre

[@king_acceler8755]

@@mymetallicarulez It was a joke, they literally printed field spell hate crime the card in PHNI.

[@blanahaha]

​@@MrGeorgFTW yep the yugioh community when a S/T is a problem: this game sucks, worst game ever. When theirs a OP monster: this games great ,best game ,best game.

[@MrGeorgFTW]

@@blanahaha "My 4 material Apollousa didn't automatically win the game. This format is unfair!"

[@Etekatte]

"What? My opponent can play around my multiple omni negates and actually play the game after I set up my end board? WAH! THAT'S SO TOXIC!!!"

[@sinner2133]

Just saying you looking FRESH Farfa

[@funnyperson549]

Wait yea why is he so dripped up rn

[@lifedeather]

The thumbnail is literally any new meta deck 😂

[@pascalschroeter123]

Black Rose Dragon LMAO cant think about something better

[@ANDELE3025]

2:47 - WRONG, those cards are how interaction is allowed to happen in the first place. Hand traps are not interaction, they are quick play trap cards (and as such should all be limited to max 1 and some made mutually exclusive limited, at least if usable on opponents turn, yes even oldie DD crow, just to make a general statement on design). Same as in MTG, Hearthstone, etc, interaction is when your shit hits the field, their shit is on the field and they crash into eachother like a shit slinging fiesta where somebody ends up having to carry that shit off to their life point fields by hand. The antifun (as toxic isnt a thing, nobody is poisoning one another through the internet or childrens card games... at least outside of Ruskitardia and WestTaiwan) in 99% of problem decks in yugioh is a "rules for thee, not for me" deck building allowance.

[@jkid1134]

"What does skill expression mean?" Farfa really grabbing noobs by their hair and dragging them out of casual land 😭😭😭 Bless up

[@GaussianEntity]

Somebody has to take the scrubs to school

[@michaelkeha]

​@@GaussianEntity I mean I'd rather pill bunnies learn cause scrubs aren't an active poison to everything they touch

[@ChillDragon]

"Flunder Players aren't real." Me: *Slowly fades away.*

[@yoastertoaster8306]

I think the deck is healthy for the game, it's easy to pick up for new players, it's surprisingly interactive in the battle phase, and it's actually kinda fun to watch it on stream and see if the opposing player can stop the assault. It is such an interesting concept and it's made me put some wack ass engine cards in my deck like Predaplanning to modulate the levels. Shifter imo isn't that big of a deal because it's very hard for them to otk you if they use it, every time I just set or summoned a big body and they couldn't really do anything about it.

[@DaShikuXI]

We've had so many years where the battle phase was nothing more than a formality. It is indeed fun to actually see the battle phase thrive a bit again.

[@ANDELE3025]

Actually forcing interactivity (aka play shit and fight with it/destroy or deal with the enemy cards on your turn after the opponent did their play on their turn) instead of negate spam is less of a "interesting concept" and more simply what standard gameloop of yugioh used to be.

[@xyrois9]

Black Rose Dragon lmao

[@z1u512]

This entire video is just an ad to convince me to play tenpai dragons

[@TheDarcaneify]

Allready bought my Core. No Drident, but i hope for a fast reprint.

[@tabbune]

>How do you make going second in modern yugioh good? We've literally done this, just make blind second Sky Strikers good. Slap in Draw a Card on all of their spells or something

[@duyknguyen]

Simple/ budget deck, newbie friendly, ACTUAL DRAGONs (not the waifus), Actual Battle Phase, Going second in 2024... Sign me innn, Konami has been eating good lately 😅 (not the heatwave)

[@renaldyhaen]

Why "Skill Expression" in this game only when you wasting time with a long combo deck? This is a multiplayer card game, not an alternative format for a solitaire game. You can play with decks with simple setups like Evil Eye or Generaider, and you can show your skill by using the disruptions in the best part because you have the knowledge about the opponent's deck and how to beat it properly. Personally, playing with 6 or more disruptions while the opponent can only start with 6 or fewer cards is "less skillful" here. In the end, 1-card combo Tenpa + handtraps, the maximum disruptions that they can give are 4-5, if they don't draw cards with the same name too. But if you see a deck like Snake-eyes if they go 2nd, they can casually create 4 monsters negates and 1 destroy, and we not counting the possible handtraps in the hand or if they have more extenders. Knowing this, I think Tenpai isn't really that bad. . I understand if they aren't satisfied with Tenpai as going 2nd answer because it is actually not an answer. People want to go 2nd with their favorite decks. This may be difficult to understand for a competitive player or someone who pretending to be that. But "WIN" is not the only reason people play the game, or sometimes they don't card. People want to "PLAY" the game, with their favorite decks. The condition of Modern YGO, or when you play against META or Top Tier deck, other decks don't even have the opportunity to play a card. Going 1st put too many disruptions and the 2nd player cannot put anything to their field. . The real answer is to reset the game, or at least create an alternative format with lower power. You can just make a format with a simple play style, and it can still be interactive. Like a chess game, you can only move once each turn but you can still get good interactions.

[@alexc3231]

create? there are already other lower power format. not many people play them

[@jofx4051]

Some people never gonna satisfy no matter what and just ignore those people You can complain solitare, control, etc, those are legal decks

[@renaldyhaen]

@@alexc3231 Do you mean Time Wizard like Edison or GOAT? Besides they're not good. Because they can actually make an official format with lower power and less intimidating, with modern decks too. I don't think you can call them an official alternative format. They never advertise it, no consistent tournament, and they don't even bring the format to Master Duel. If they advertise the alternative format more, and people can find it easily. This will be a very good introduction for a new player or person who never plays on paper.

[@renaldyhaen]

​@@jofx4051 Reading your comment, no wonder TCG died. And they squish the current players as much as possible. You need new players, so Konami TCG can grab money from other players, besides the old players.

[@alexc3231]

@@renaldyhaen they advertised them last year or and the only one that people play sometimes is time wizard. Imo there are more people who like current "advanced format" yugioh more than alternative formats.

[@nicofischer3364]

"Black Rose Dragon lmao. I can't think of anything better."

[@CMaxoknight31]

just saying but the new Gimmick Puppet field spell... pls stop Konami

[@kappadarwin9476]

I dont get why people don't run cosmic cyclone?

[@arobnugzo6818]

@@kappadarwin9476 well, good luck cyclone'ing the FTK deck that is GP. Cyclone is usually in side tho, as ppl start to main Ghost Ogre that kinda achieves the same result against Tenpai field spell.

[@KingGladearYugioh]

So I guess here’s my take. Tenpai takes a concept which is much more interactive than misc in dinos. Many many quick play spells/ trap cards or even certain monster effects help remove the field spell which gives the misc effect to these dragons. Now I do agree that all of the hand traps does create a problem but crossout can be a great tool to counter certain handtraps that hurt your going first or second plays. Having a going second deck in the format feels strange but I don’t think this is unmanageable.

[@dewanegara8333]

It is funny that in OCG environment everyone just have “just deal with it” mentality while TCG peeps almost always find something to complain about.

[@alfiobonanno5100]

They also tend to spend less than a quarter of the money tcg players spend, so maybe that's a component?

[@dewanegara8333]

@@alfiobonanno5100 i mean you guys let it happen (as in among tcg peeps not everyone againts this kind of rarity bump, especially some content creator who have more “voice” than some pleb) till it’s too late.

[@defectivesickle5643]

Oh no, OCG players are definitely not fans of it either. They did *not* like the last banlist. Neither did I.

[@dewanegara8333]

@@defectivesickle5643 nah, only 1 korean player that has those opinion and it was blown out of proportion. Most of SEA player never actually care of it.

[@David-hw9si]

they didn't deal with it. YGO has by far the least % growth of most popular TCGs in 2023 (Pokemon has a higher base value and STILL had higher % growth). Many players jumped ship to One Piece. You not hearing it, or choose to not hear it, doesn't mean it's not occurring. Ironically TCG is the one that's complaining but still supporting the game, either because of sunken cost fallacy or genuinely just voicing opinion on a game they like.

[@four-en-tee]

I think a middle ground can be achieved between making powercrept Numeron OTK and making War Rock, and like much of Yugioh's history, it should probably be experimented with in an anime deck. I'd wager that if you made a searchable version of A Hero Lives for Blue-Eyes that prevented your opponent from sending cards from the hand to the field or GY during the turn it was activated, the deck would be viable again and could easily go second. You could also easily print a Tenpai-like field spell in a deck such as HERO without breaking it probably.

[@Rebirth28]

Honestly it's a shame that the deck is causing this many problems it literally has a bunch stuff that I want as the deck for me. My favourite attribute, type and summoning mechanic as well as it being a go second deck

[@jlb9577]

I remember trading away trident dragion like 8yrs ago…absolutely wild how modern meta can just skyrocket costs to ridiculous levels overnight

[@FrkXJ6]

So funny to see people crying about Tenpai but sleeping about the stupid and degenerated Snake Eye combo who gets 66% spots on tops lol. Just check Raleigh and Rio. Flamberge by itself is way more stupid than Tenpai field spell. The only overpowered Tenpai card is the Synchro who locks the opponent in BP

[@Tiaraments]

How about people sleeping on it? It's been the most complained about deck since it entered the meta. Scratch that, since BEFORE it entered the meta since it released in MD first

[@sendhelp4376]

Nice whataboutism but people have been complaining about snake-eye since day 1. People were even upset that the latest banlist didn't even touch snake-eye at all

[@four-en-tee]

If we ban the Tenpai field spell and Heat Wave, can we also ban Branded Lost alongside the Sanctifire and (hopefully) Dis Pater ban? Also, we still need to ban either Calamity or Crimson Dragon.

[@autobotstarscream765]

Calamity can turn skip without Crimson, it's a card you either have to ban, or ban around with a long list of bans of otherwise innocent cards.

[@invertbrid]

They wont ban tenpai field anytime soon, no worry.

[@manofsteal5066]

This just proves that you can't please everyone. there is always someone who will complain.

[@sussybaka8560]

but removing interaction from the game is like… kind of controversial??? Like, it’d be weirder if no one complained about this deck.

[@jofx4051]

It is what it is, anyone will complain about anything

[@Tiaraments]

​@@sussybaka8560 People aren't thinking critically about the deck they just see "going second deck" and shut their brains off. Same way stun players who rolled up with d-shifter + vanities + tcboo said "I thought you wanted more turns in YGO?"

[@fortisch]

The game is unenjoyable to me, since knightmares came out.

[@Ragnarok540]

What if Numeron, but actually good? My main problem is that the deck is linear. There is little room for skill expression, and in a BO1 environment such as MD, it will result in mostly non games.

[@nightmare_automata]

The Drake v Kendrick beef comparison had me rolling.

[@garfrockbreadtroll]

clearly the solution to all this is a meta burn based archetype /s

[@PirateMaster45]

Like a better Trickstar?