Fighting the Anti-Free Speech Mob | Glenn Loury & Jonathan Rauch | The Glenn Show

[@AFringedGentian]

I’m so sad that John isn’t feeling well but hoping he’ll be right as rain soon. Thank you both for this conversation!

[@LeviNotik]

"suppressing that speech is like dealing with global warming by breaking all the thermometers" - money quote right there

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

Why would any sane person go around breaking thermometers over a man made global warming hoax ?

[@Primus-ue4th]

Or by saying it’s only cause by fossil fuels and we must tax poor people who can’t afford Tesla’s.

[@richbirecki]

Okay, first half of the chat was good. Second half was TDS suffering quasi leftoid emerging

[@megaohmaudio5963]

Thanks for book list, Glen! (13:45) I love how you are cutting in some relevant images and references during the podcast. Extremely useful and very well done!

[@shamsam4]

And thank you for the timestamp! I was going to look back through the video for it.

[@YourBestFriendforToday]

Great guest! Thank you Glenn

[@garypysz2739]

After 50 minutes of highly intelligent conversation I’m amazed he is still falling for Russiagate.

[@kitearls9951]

Using my favored vernacular, Glenn you're a fuckin G. Thanks as always.

[@briane173]

I'm constantly reminded of the old aphorism, "There's nothing quite so passionate as a vested interest disguised as an intellectual conviction" -- and you learn to expect that from the polity but NOT Academia. Well, guess what....

[@achipinthesugar]

Sorry to hear about John. Hope he feels better soon!

[@LeviNotik]

This was recorded on Feb 6 so I hope he's better by now!

[@steveedmunds4949]

Using wapo fact checkers as a truth barometer is not a good foundation for an argument

[@dhschneider7945]

I agree.I don't read wapo anymore, I do think they are often dishonest, or at least not honest enough. Just like fox news. Having listened to this interview in it's entirety, I would say Rauch was honest. He critiqued disinformation on the right and the left. And most importantly, he laid out how all of us can do better in the future.

[@briane173]

Ironically the fact-checkers with the chops to BE fact-checkers are supposed to be academics. You know -- they've thought this through, they've got empirical data to back it up, they've got evidence, yada yada. And now _Academia_ can't be trusted because the pedagogy itself has been infected with an organized monoculture that peddles in ideological purity. So I'll say this: WaPo does not have in its possession unbiased and objective fact-checkers, but they're frankly no worse than what we're getting out of the Academy or the scientific community presently.

[@sotoshaska]

The interview was going well until he hit this note. Seems like he doesn't understand the fact is that any intuition or fact checker can lose their objectivity due to sinister forces whether this be money or some form of soft power.

[@triacer8424]

As soon as he said that every alarm bell in mind went off.

[@danilopompey754]

@@sotoshaska, in a competitive environment, there is always competition since there is money to be made. If a fact-checker is consistently wrong, another contender for the space will expose and take its place. This is the check and balance that would naturally operate just like the check offered by the various auto companies. You don't have to rely on one company for your checking. QED

[@The88Cheat]

53:35 I have a lot of respect for Glenn Loury admitting he was wrong. So many people would just double down. It's okay to be wrong or change your mind.

[@mjm5081]

Personally, I have no affiliation with, nor allegiance to, any political party. That said, I am not blind. We who believe in freedom of speech, thought, and expression, are daily under attack from those who seek to ban all speech, thought, and expression, contrary to their own.

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

The federal government is a terrorist organization that engages in evil everywhere. Voters are irrelevant and incapable of weeding it out. The most trivial example is term limits. You will never get the criminals in congress to vote against their own interest for the good of the country or its peasants.

[@persallnas5408]

Pure gold, well done Glenn and Jonathan❤❤

[@scottpoole9644]

Well, if the Washington Post fact-checkers say it, then it must be true!

[@whatingodsnameandribeyemed3759]

Why would someone be called “deranged” for making clear and well-reasoned arguments that use established facts as evidence? The whole point of Glenn’s defense of academic freedom is that ideas need to be challenged with better ideas, better evidence, better arguments, not dismissed with slogans or popularized groupthink

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

In physics, you are an ostracized clown if you challenge any of the established dogma, which is why it will likely take 100s of years to make any progress on consciousness. People born knowing nothing get TAUGHT physics (which is nothing but mathematical description of observed behavior) and think they are gods of infinite knowledge and understanding. Meanwhile, they wholeheartedly and angrily dismiss anything that challenges what they have learned. The massive avalanche of evidence pointing to a god that has NOTHING to do with a bibehole is astounding. But you'll never get a physicist to spend more than 2 minutes looking at it before entirely dismissing it based on the infamous "FALLACY OF INCREDULITY"...a fallacy most of humanity engages in. If something is too shocking to their own sensibilities, they will reject it instantly before learning anything. It takes years to learn enough to be in a position to evaluate the arguments for god. Starting with epistemology, ontology, philosophy, and logic.

[@MidWestCon]

I can’t trust anyone who uses WAPO “fact-checkers”. People have shown how this is overblown. This man has credibility.

[@yamishogun6501]

Anyone who uses WaPo fact checkers doesn't understand important topics like climate change and Covid - just a "la la la I can't here you!" progressive.

[@davidlane6758]

Suppose that half the claims they fact checked as false or mostly false were erroneously tagged as such. That would still make Trump the most dishonest politician on record, by a long shot. That's how staggering the number of lies he and his administration told was. Furthermore, there were numerous other fact checking organizations that similarly tracked his false or misleading claims. Politifact, Factcheck, Snopes, and various journalistic outlets around the political spectrum, for example. Sure, you can dismiss all of them as biased if you like, but then one has to weight the probability that a multiple unrelated organizations and numerous individuals converging on similar results were all colluding together to make false claims about Donald Trump against the probability that Trump made the dishonest claims they said he did. Picking the former makes it seem like your own ideological bias is causing you to reject overwhelming evidence in favor of your candidate. Lastly, these fact checkers didn't just make bare claims that Trump lied about this or that. They typically showed their work, with evidence and arguments you could follow for yourself, were you to bother. But perhaps that is too much to ask.

[@JesseOtto]

Excellent. Thank you.

[@Guedingen]

That was an outstaning conversation. many thanks.

[@meshgraphics]

Wow! He really went off the rails when you mentioned Trump. Maybe you should start your interviews that way, Glenn

[@larreye8451]

It's stunning to see certain Americans still believe in the collusion hoax.

[@kenyafromcali]

I mean I’m sitting here in amazement at this otherwise intelligent man loosing his mind. 😂😂😂I’m literally in shock.

[@jessesewell7922]

Totally. It’s hilarious how so many otherwise highly intelligent people become unhinged when you touch on that one subject in which rationality and truth hold no sway. You could visibly see his temperature rise, his pace of speech quickened and his comments were pure invective.

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

What did he specially go off the rails about? I’m open to both sides here, though I switch off when lazy name-calling like TDS come in

[@matthewmechtly5026]

​I really don't like Trump as a human, but for me, the most notable TDS attribute is the complete inability to scrutinize other institutions similarly as purveyors of disinformation. It's like this dude was asleep during the entirety of the Vietnam war, the WMD debacle, or COVID.

[@sirkle1]

This conversation led me to think about and rethink many ideas about how things are and how they should be.

[@emmanuelananda6551]

What a profound and nuanced discussion. Thank you both. Incredible sophistication. This discussion made me think. What a gift. Thank you.

[@stevey8481]

Always enjoy the conversations. I agree with your guests view on cancel culture and the dangers it presents. But to hear the WaPo fact checkers presented as legitimate and the full throated belief in 'russian collusion ' was simply crazy . Does make me believe that TDS is reall, and truly has broken what were otherwise critical thinking individuals.

[@kenyafromcali]

I mean I was walking along somewhat fine until he jumped off the cliff with the TDS. I felt like I was at a Manhattan cocktail party. 🤢🤢

[@kg356]

The TDS I see is when people shut their brains off and plug their ears the second someone gives very commonplace and predictable critiques of Trump.

[@Matt24002]

His belief that Winston Churchill was the greatest hero of WWII is a good indicator of his flawed historiography. It's strange because before his long diatribe he acknowledges how the ideal system requires good faith in authoritative actors. There is an abundance of bad faith on all sides. If he realized this, he would have been able to stop before making a fool of himself.

[@mac7943]

I agree... Interesting conversation until he mentions the WaPo and Trump/Russia connection.

[@good_ant]

Cutting edge stuff. What a time to be alive.

[@Hokie200proof]

Happy Easter to all. Great conversation, great guest and great disagreement and discussion.

[@MikeYates02]

What a great conversation

[@jac9366]

How good was that, thank you that's really brightened my day ❤

[@veracyning5572]

I think that trying to shut someone up is a surefire way to convince them that they are correct, and that you're afraid of their argument. Great show guys!

[@willlinner44]

Outstanding

[@timmcgarry7642]

Admiration for both interviewer and the person interviewed. Searching and thoughtful questions that elicited thoughtful and detailed answers. This was a really illuminating exchange. Rauch is marvelous (and glad to hear him bring up the mistreatment of British philosopher Kathleen Stock, a paradigmatic free speech case).

[@FirstnameLastname-xi5hh]

god I love this channel

[@dexblue]

Would it hurt Rauch so much to give an example of disinformation?

[@bobloblaw3415]

Does the entire topic of Trump endlessly promoting denying the 2020 election results these many months not count as an example? Would you really have them waste part of the precious hour by citing some of the ludicrous claims verbatim? Here's what Trump said, for instance, about the election at the press conference he held the other day after his indictment: “The millions of votes illegally stuffed into ballot boxes, and all caught on government cameras."

[@kenyafromcali]

He’ll make something up I’m sure. 😂😂😂

[@jamestierney3572]

Wonderful, Glenn. Thank you. Jonathan, if you see this, thanks for your book. I loved it and sent it to my kids.

[@KeithCindyPanama]

Leftist privilege is the privilege to judge and belittle others who’s views are different from theirs

[@sofvines3940]

Kindly inquisitors should be a requirement at school! I can't think of a more well thought out argument for reason! Bravo!

[@garfieldbraithwaite8590]

What a timely conversation

[@SavGaEckmann]

An awesome conversation! Glenn, please consider reaching out to Ms. Kathleen Stock.

[@kmaidotia]

TDS is real, this guy proves it

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

What specifically?

[@kathytodd319]

I think there's some TDS going on here lol

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

People are generally incapable of separating rhetoric from policy. I don't care if trumpty tells a thousand meaningless lies per day if his policies are outstanding for the country.

[@mjm5081]

First of all, thank you gentlemen for an interesting and informative conversation. Second, I hope John is feeling better. When it comes to academia and education as a whole, I fear the ship has sailed. And that those who have charted its course, consider Logic, Reason, and Common Sense, unnecessary cargo.

[@genenelson3633]

Wonderful talk guys.

[@hypatia3068]

I really want to thank both of you for this conversation, it made my morning a whole lot brighter, and a whole lot saner. I so wish that we, all of us, could have more conversations, and not so many debates where the faultlines seem to be the focal point rather than the subject mattere. And, Jonathan - I am ordering your book today. I even teared up a few times, and that is a good thing!

[@sofvines3940]

Jonathan's books should be a mandatory reading in middle school and up! So simple and profound!

[@JJ0n3z]

Gotta say, Raunch puts a bit too much faith in the Stanford Internet Observatory. If you haven’t read the Twitter Files and specifically SIO’s role in what occurred there you should- and Glenn, if you read this PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE have Matt Taibbi back? on to go over all that. I’ll double my monthly subscription to have some even-handed coverage on this issue because it’s almost imperative. Rauch is wise and right about a lot, but his faith in predominantly left orgs with too much clandestine power undermines his overall veracity.

[@steve112285]

Yeah, he seems too trusting of official narratives. He may be the type who believes State Department or CIA or Pentagon talking points, not realizing that we've been lied into every conflict for decades.

[@explrr22]

Well it's certainly a problem! Rauch's perspective, as I've come to understand it, is without institutional processes we'll likely just return to the unproductive and destructive tribal warfare and authoritianism that characterised human societies for most of history. Institutions trying to apply the principles and practices, even with some flaws (which are inevitable due to human nature)... They have a better chance than simple competitive quests for suppressive dominance that are increasingly common in discourse. Fix or improve institutions or replace them with better ones. Just trying to freelance it with populist sentiments and demigods is a road to a multi aspect social decline.

[@futurenoww9899]

Rauch quoting statistics published by The Washington Post when speaking about Trump is where he displays his TDS.

[@chrissteiner9693]

My thoughts exactly.

[@explrr22]

The fact that institutions are biased doesn't mean we don't still need them. And having some bias in interpretation is way less harmful than just making stuff up or lying. Not approving of either, but: The first is a somewhat unavoidable human fallibility that skews perspectives. The second is either active disregard for reality or intentional efforts to obscure it, which suggests reality is just a fun house game anyway. The fun house reality version, is a much more dangerous place for a civilization to end up in. It's why various sober critics are also coming down hard on those from the left who've adopted postmodernist and related perspectives that dismiss much of the pursuit of facts, ideals, and reality. Likewise, as Rauch does, they've fought against an increase in tendency to suppress reasoned criticisms of interpretation. The institutions that inject editorial judgements into fact and evidence collection, still are binding themselves to fact and evidence gathering, and a careful skeptic can mostly pull apart the interpretation from the evidence, and use that as a critique of interpretation. Take away the need for evidence or empiricism, and replace it with sentiment or personality based authority, and you don't preserve a productive society, and are reduced to warring tribes.

[@bertrandrussell894]

Great discussion.

[@onepartyroule]

GET WELL SOON JOHN!

[@Tamara-qd5dc]

I appreciate the discussion about Bell Curve. I am deeply touched by Glenn's courage to bring up this book. I read it and for years was under impression that data from the book are indisputable. The interview of Charles Murray by Coleman Hughes changed my opinion on the subject completely, Murray agreed that there was a study which proved after years of investment into childhood education for Black children their average IQ rose. Murray's point was that it did not rise enough to justify future investment. My reaction was exactly the opposite: if it works, keep at it! I now view Bell Curve as a book that triggered an important conversation and encouraged the society to change the course of action. What truly hurts our Black citizens are the attempts to achieve equality of outcomes (aka equity) by simply handing Blacks unmerited positions in colleges and workplace where they fail because they are not able to compete in the honest competition. Result? Devastated self-esteem, anger, despair. We need to invest in early childhood education, not in the frivolous policies that hurt them.

[@surajitgoswami1871]

Thank you for having Jonathan Rauch in your show. He packed an "industrial grade" gas lighting right in front of our eyes when it came to Trump and I repeatedly asked myself why isn't this man more famous? He practices exactly what he was blaming Trump had done except Rauch possibly overestimates how much accurate lying one can do before the fact.

[@markpaul1383]

Yes! And then he described "prebunking" by the Biden administration as a success. I don't know the specifics on that case of potential Russian disinformation that was allegely thwarted, but I can go on for days about real Biden administration disinformation. Also, I wonder what his view on having a disinformation czar by the Biden Administration is? It's almost like he read 1984 but just didn't get it.

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

Specific examples?

[@dennisstevens4347]

at 44:07 did Rauch say Trump is using 'Russian level disinformation not seen since the Civil War'? William Randolph Hearst and the Spanish-American War, anybody? The most painful part of the current debate is the hideous misuse of history.

[@TheDailyGroov]

I missed this a month ago. Good it's good content here, this conversation should be used in every class room in the world. It articulates the point very succinctly, almost any age of person can digest it.

[@notsmine9191]

Its funny how someone can be intellectually curious, and then just start to lie lie lie.

[@kenyafromcali]

And lie some more! 😂😂😂SMDH

[@EmperorsNewWardrobe]

Examples of these lies lies lies?

[@pamelaroyce5285]

Glenn Loury should interview Prof. Frances Widdowson who was terminated from Mount Royal University in Canada for failing to toe the woke line. She was interviewed by Benjamin A. Boyce, who has a KZbin channel. Among the strikes against her was the failure to capitalize the word indigenous. She wants to help indigenous students achieve academically - without holding them to different standards other than Enlightenment reason and logic which prevailed in universities before post-modernism gave rise to wokeism.

[@lknight5579]

That was a virtuoso performance. I've never heard Jonathan Rauch talk before but I'd paused to buy his book by a third of the way in. He's really thought this stuff through and he's refined his arguments. I may not see my own biases, I accept that, and I agree with his world view, but he really nailed that.

[@keronramon4642]

I don't know what drugs are you on , nothing that he said had no resemblance with reality

[@lknight5579]

@@keronramon4642 As someone who's been insulted continuously for years for voting differently from my peers, I understand your rage at what you perceive to be insulting misinformation, and I'm sorry for having added to that frustration. I do see things a little differently from you, perhaps less than you might imagine, but I respect your comment.

[@danilopompey754]

@@lknight5579, Mr Ramon was just trolling you; he didn't even mean what he said. This is anti-social media where most of what is said is BS, so you just got got. (lol) QED

[@keronramon4642]

@@danilopompey754 excuse me I am not a troll I am a black gay man who was once a progressive until I started doing my own research to realize I was lied to, the elites like this man blind us with their fancy degrees and titles to mislead and spread actual misinformation

[@keronramon4642]

@@lknight5579 with all do respect , I am not talking about voting, I am talking about the people in their ivory towers who live in their own ignorant bubble, their ideas are not teathered to reality , just buzzwords 'misinformation' and vacuous words that in end does not mean anything.

[@janetdesmith8125]

Academics have a "World all their own".

[@joiedevie3901]

I look forward to listening to Glenn's and John's take on the expulsion of the representatives in Tennessee.

[@michaelnance5236]

Trump saying "Russia are you listneing" (or whatever the exact saying was) wasn't Trump colluding but, rather him sarcastically pointing out the amount of classified information that Hillary had on her private server in a bathroom and the blind eye that the justice department had shown towards it. I don't know if Rauch is intentionally taking this out of context or if he is just getting his info from the Washtington Post "fact check" but, the speech is still available for anyone to listen to in it's entirety. Ironic that this is in the midst of a speech on disinformation.

[@theohopkins1903]

Watching this in the UK. I'm British. UK has/had different ways about thinking about gay people, black people, etc.

[@yootuub301]

Great guest! Great rebuttal to the anti-collusion bs. Now get Steve Keen on and really get twisted!

[@TheDifferentThinker]

Rauch is brilliant!

[@yourlogicalnightmare1014]

Except for the damage trump did to his brain. Lies are irrelevant. Policies matter. No president now or ever going forward will "put america first," starting with not allowing millions of foreign nationals to trample over our homeless and drug addicted. The federal government is a corrupt evil dumb-ster fire, and the peasant voters can do nothing about it.

[@williamkeys6782]

I am MAGA and Jonathan Rauch is why the US is in decline. Listen to Rauch's prejudice and ill-informed Democrat rhetoric and appreciate what we are up against. I agree with Rauch regarding free speech, but America is going to hell and Rauch is an accomplice in that process.

[@kenyafromcali]

So was this interview about promoting censorship or decrying cancellation? 😂😂😂😂

[@mikewilsonart144]

A conversation too short IMO. Solid work! We need more of this.

[@Captain1nsaneo]

Dr. Rauch is not a pollster or a polling expert, as such he's open to the Semmelweis reflex when reading poll data. I'd recommend listening to Rich Baris's input on polls as he is an expert in the field and his misses are smaller and fewer than better known sources.

[@sheahoffman5936]

So, this is Glen and Jon instead of Glen and John 😊

[@hammer8590]

At 52.42 I can't STOMACH no more of this guy. WHAT ABOUT ALL THE INFORMATION THAT HAS SURFACED ON CLINTON are you kidding ME.

[@sloanheads86em]

Glenn, next week simply MUST be about Jones and Pearson - Tennessee…

[@AndyKirkpatrick50]

Great conversation until he put on his skis and tried to jump the Trump with Glenn's audience. I get the impression that even Glenn has no strength left to fight the Pod people.

[@margarinetaintedgreen8140]

Jonathan Rauch is so on the money here, it’s ridiculous. Thank you, Mr. Loury. This is some of the best commentary I’ve heard on the assault on free speech.

[@davidlamb7524]

Please try to get an interview with Julian Assange's father, John Shipton. Failing that I'd love to you interview John Pilger on press freedom, propaganda and freedom of speech.

[@svigdorrodgivs3998]

A little disappointed in Glenn here that he didn’t push back on Jonathan towards the end. The lies that Biden and other dem/progressive politicians tell are as bad as anything on the right. I think Jonathan’s political bias has him unable to see that.

[@KeithCindyPanama]

8:36 didn’t know about this anti speech in 1930: So interesting:

[@richhenry8004]

Rauch's argument is the exact one kids near to hear at this moment in time. We are losing an entire generation to the embrace of subjective noise.

[@markn866]

Great discussion and I appreciate that Jonathan is able to describe his opposition to Trump much more concretely than some of his other notable critics.

[@DLH.23]

I wonder how many members of the Stanford Internet Observatory are republican? I am sure they say they are "diverse", at least.....

[@dustinhecker3986]

A really excellent discussion. Thank you very much. My only quibble is I think Jonathan let Stacey Abrams off the hook too easily. She had just lost a very narrow election in Georgia and was looking ahead potentially to running again. Or using it as a platform for some other position. She didn't need to convince two-thirds of the country that she was right. She just needed to convince either a tiny percentage of Georgia residents that the election was fraudulent (spoiler alert, it wasn't) or enough progressives on the national level to pay her next campaign a lot of money or to promote her for some other position. Playing the race card as she did should have been called out more than it was. She lost fair and square just like Trump lost fair and square. Of course he doubled down on the dangerous lies.

[@kenyafromcali]

We’re the lies from the 2016 election “dangerous” as well?

[@DanHowardMtl]

Roach is such a great liar that he even Glenn doesn't see it. Sad.

[@spb7883]

58:34: Nobody should be afraid of a theory, but theories are exactly that: theories, not facts. Theories should be taught and discussed, but that discussion - by virtue of the nature of “discussion” - will necessarily involve questions. The problem with many of these theories - CRT, Queer Theory, etc - is not *whether* they *should* be taught, but *how* they *are* taught. And the problem with academia today is that you have far many more advocates than professors.

[@daffyduck4674]

I realise this is somewhat authoritarian, but I if I had my way no one would be allowed a Twitter account until they’ve listened to this conversation in full. Wonderful conversation, especially on the vital point of free speech and open inquiry being hugely important to advancing any genuine form of social justice & why what’s happening in academia is so concerning. Also, a brilliant explanation of just what Trump/MAGA are doing with their disinformation tactics.

[@TrentSLucas]

It’s ok, the left is going full authoritarian anyways…

[@kenyafromcali]

😂😂😂😂

[@Roger-r7s]

The biggest problem with the market place of ideas theory is that it ignores the fact that the truth is less popular than is mass delusion and mythology. And usually the mythology becomes self reinforcing with the existing cultural construction and systems status quo. And yes this mythology can wrap itself up in quasi religious pseudo scientific materialistic secular humanist orthodoxy and dogmatic forms. The "reality based community," only reinforces the existing status quo or what is "already agreed upon" as real by those who hold the prevailing paradigm in their specialized field of expertise. This is not to say that groundbreaking independent work and thought is impossible within the institutional establishment framework but the apparatus of suppression for radical heterodoxy and dissent can be so powerful as to be effectively insurmountable.

[@ungarlinski7965]

Which John Locke book or resource is he referring to when he talks about his book at the @30:25 mark approximately?

[@robleahy5759]

My protected characteristics make me a better professional, and a more moral human being than you.

[@mariazibell8229]

Hmmmm

[@censorshipbites7545]

*Rauch puts forward sound and persuasive arguments...if you were debating 30-40 years ago.* But Woke-ism has its own epistemological generators (activists and theorists like DiAngelo and Kendi), it refuses to debate (debate is white supremacy), and it values subjective accounts and narratives ("lived experience") over logic and data. In short, *someone playing the part of a woke-ist, like James Lindsay or Douglas Murray, would utterly eviscerate Rauch's arguments. Best go back to the drawing board.*

[@mikegrecamusic5917]

Upgrade the metaphor. "Marketplace of ideas" to "the Symphony of Consciousness"

[@purplemonkeydishwasher9818]

By the way, really enjoyed this discussion. Thought I should staple this edit to the top of my argument else I appear only critical. 5:20 a question regarding Mr. Rauch’s stance: why don’t we “teach the controversy” in regards to creationism as its supporters suggested we do if we’re truly supporters of free speech? There is a hegemonic through-line of schooling that is accepted in our schooling system, and it has been well established in the Supreme Court that school is not actually a place where free speech as we know it in the legal sense applies. As a liberal society we should allow deference to controversial ideas as much as can be supported in service of a rigorous and rich education, but ideas that subvert our system might not be well placed - at least in our K-12 system. Beyond this, I always ask people if they’ve actually read the bill they’re criticizing, because without fail the people who denounce it speak about it in ways that seem not to relate to the bill’s intent or language. Please read the bill and tell me which parts of it don’t read exactly as would be expected of a liberal society trying to protect itself against ideas that are unproductively corrosive. In the broader context of society at large I agree that all ideas should be open for discussion, but the public schooling in K-12 is a different story.

[@secondary7978]

He's like a poor man's Sam Harris.

[@kenyafromcali]

No seriously!

[@antitheistvegan]

Imo - the question of whether or not there are intelligence differences among people raised in different environments is entirely appropriate. Singling out black people specifically seems slightly sinister. I always wondered why the focus was on black people and not cultures which would be a mixture of ethnicities.

[@mentansh5702]

ಠ_ಠ "pre-bunking"

[@steveunderwood3683]

Jonathan Rauch is one of the most annoying people to see interviewed. Its the same pattern every time. He talks all the right talk about the processes we need to follow. Then he talks about the real world, applies none of the process he thinks is important, and sounds deranged.

[@jph0316]

Please consider a chat with Rony Guldmann

[@suspiciousentity9305]

Pre-bunking? Really?

[@daniyalrazakazmi7249]

Awesome conversation. I will read the book!

[@goodlookinouthomie1757]

Rauch: "The successful debut of tactics of mass disinformation that have never been applied in the US before" 🤣 He's right, but not in the way he thinks.

[@lonzo61]

First I'd ever heard of Jon Rauch, and I thought this was excellent. Loury gets' great guests when Prof McWhorter is not present.

[@Gnofg]

However personality tests are pretty accurate on how good a QB will be.

[@Boethius411]

Personality tests don’t have gaydar? You don’t say…🥴🤭😱🐿💩

[@wescolumbus621]

When are you going to have Asra Nomani to discuss "Woke Army?"

[@jpdavid67]

The second half of this interview didn't age well. Ill bet Mr. Rauch has a poster of Joy Reid in his office.

[@justindreyer1724]

Competing against Sam Harris for worst TDS

[@keronramon4642]

I am so disappointed in you Glenn , this guy was literally 'disinformation' lie after lie came out of his mouth, he was not challenged in his lies about trump and I am not a trump fan, he lied about the history of the acceptance of homosexuality, would love to debate this man as he seems to lost in his own world

[@Wubsidaisy]

TDS took this interview off the rails eventually.

[@briannichols4856]

Censorship Industrial Complex