Film Theory: Spider Man Saved NO ONE (3 Spider Man No Way Home Theories)

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There is a LOT to cover about Spider-Man: No Way Home! So much, in fact, that we are going to be talking about three theories today. Yes, this is another quick fire round of theories. Get your web slingers ready, Theorists! We are going to tackle all the answers to explain the mysteries of Spider-Man: No Way Home! (Or, you know, three of them!)
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Credits:
Writers: Matthew Patrick
Editors: Danial "BanditRants" Keristoufi, Koen Verhagen, and Alex "Sedge" Sedgwick
Assistant Editor: Caitie Turner (viridianrosette)
Sound Editor: Yosi Berman

[@michaelgrey1503]

I don't necessarily think it would be unethical to force a cure onto Green Goblin. The Green Goblin is not Peter's patient. Norman is. And Norman definitely wants to be cured.

[@wellusee688]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGfZZoGQr8ykq6s ... q

[@worknotinprogress7172]

That's an interesting point

[@kwayneboy1524]

@@wellusee688 freak.

[@100nodog]

I completely agree. Lizard though....

[@coda1443]

@@kwayneboy1524 ay why you calling him a freak bro

[@TimeBucks]

When did the memory erasure happen?

[@shawnsicle]

Oh? Don’t you remember?

[@bendusi1530]

What erasuer?

[@cloberlobster2276]

When did what happen?

[@portalj123]

what are you talking about? also who is peter parker everyone keeps talking about that guy

[@MariaRodriguez-im8sf]

cool

[@Peshy_]

Can’t wait for the horror movie spin off: “ Spiderman: *I’m in your home* “

[@jayshirley8274]

hahaha or "spider man - no one's home"

[@Muichiro_11]

Na bro it's insectboy no more home

[@zoebrugg7594]

@@Muichiro_11 Spider-Man Homeless

[@lauragraves4342]

OK imma burn down my house now on the off case that might happen theoretically. And the next one and so on and so forth oh nevermind I'll just live in my car. Until I also burn it down on the off case that may theoretically happen and so on and....... then I'll get a really good lawyer who will say I don't actually have a case.

[@daniellamartinez400]

Spiderman: I'm in your walls

[@jessiec668]

Didn't Spiderman appear at a function that Aunt Mae's charity was putting on during the second film? My memory is a little fuzzy but I'm pretty sure that happened near the beginning. That would explain how Happy and Mae met "through Spiderman". Neither of them would remember knowing Peter, but both of them would remember having a professional relationship with Spiderman and meeting each other at that fundraiser.

[@Quenterro.]

It was the beginning

[@yellowrobertorty]

Exactly

[@abominable9078]

This movie was literally something out of my greatest dreams, and yet it was still even better than I could've imagined. Willem Dafoe was astounding in this movie

[@wellusee688]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGfZZoGQr8ykq6s ...

[@TheGoldenDuckies]

I MAKE BETTER MUSIC THAN YOUR FAVORITE ARTIST!

[@subifyouhatetiktokandreddit234]

@@TheGoldenDuckies Keep it in your pants

[@dunkirito8308]

Watched this film 4 times and the more I watched it the more I noticed how flawed the story of this film is.

[@akramdiyashev8188]

Just saying his name is Willem Dafoe no hate just informing you

[@isaiaharmour6145]

To be fair, Peter isn't the reason they got into MIT. He's the reason they may have gotten BACK into MIT after they were rejected because they knew him. He never existed, leaving it to reason that they got in the first place.

[@wilfarr9691]

such common sense thinking like this is missed in the video so many times. Good catch.

[@funnybunny2515]

Wowww kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc..

[@Ben-yj9wz]

The entire saving the admissions woman could be associated with Spider-Man and not Peter since they didn’t get in because of Spider-Man controversy

[@RyoPotter]

Here's the thing, though, it's not like Peter's actions were retroactively undone, or that the past actually changed. Just that everyone's memory of what happened was altered to nix Peter Parker while still rationalizing it. They may remember it as Spider-Man's rescue of the lady stirring her to be more open, or Flash being the one to convince her, or maybe something as whack as Spider-Man directly convincing the lady without anyone thinking anything of it for some reason.

[@JoeLoquacious]

@@wilfarr9691 GUYS, I found a HUGE LEAK FOR THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOVn3modt6arsU…

[@TheCyberKid707]

Funnily enough, Spider-Man could have avoided this by just telling Dr. Strange to make the world forget the NEWS REPORT AND VIDEO, as opposed to making them forget SPIDER-MAN HIMSELF.

[@nateluther4763]

How would that stop the other universe villains who know who he is

[@deuxong]

@@nateluther4763 he could've asked it in the first place, in the beginning of the movie

[@MrSqurk]

I blame Dr Strange more than Peter. Spend 5 more minutes finding out the actual issue...

[@eliasbranch5383]

But then people would remember all the future ones, which is why Peter asked that they would simply forget that he was Spider-man.

[@TheCyberKid707]

Maybe he could have just asked Dr. Strange to let him write down a list of all the people that he wanted to remember him, and then asked Dr. Strange to make everyone else forget who he is. Then the whole thing wouldn’t have happened.

[@brianwynn4968]

One thing that was left out was the look on MJ's face AFTER Peter leaves the coffee shop when he stops himself from bringing up any memories he had written down. You see her get that look on her face as though she DOES recognize him but not sure WHERE FROM. We all know that type of expression: the "I KNOW them from SOMEWHERE, I just can't remember where." Or that "I've seen their face BEFORE, but WHERE?!?" look. So there IS something that the new spell DIDN'T entirely remove. Ned never physically SAW Peter so his memory hasn't been jogged yet. But MJ's HAS to some small degree.

[@mr_snow_23]

Yea its like a blocked memory if she does return she will most likely start realizing who he is

[@notsyzagts7967]

@@mr_snow_23 You're both wrong because memories about him aren't just blocked but any clues/information also can't be retained going forward. So even if they got a certain feeling around Peter, that memory will be blocked from retention so there won't be any information accumulation to work from. Erased memories can be relearned but blocked memories can't. Therefore, their memories can't be "jogged". If you guys read the way the spell works in the comics, you would know this.

[@mr_snow_23]

@@notsyzagts7967 i havent read that comic yet that explains but okay also the mcu isnt always comic arcuate but okay we will see what is nexted

[@sonicinfinity1871]

Whoop-dee-do.

[@Goat-on-a-Stick]

If they were just seconds from dying, it was pretty much near impossible for them to convince their spiderman that they've changed without sounding like a desperation ploy.

[@joselorenzomabulay6474]

Their spiderman tobey and andrew also was transfered to tom's universe. Tobey and andrews spidermam also helped tom to make cures for the villains. That means that the villains dont need any convincing because their spidermans already knew that they are cured

[@oliverloake6103]

@@joselorenzomabulay6474 The Spider-Men you see on screen in NHW are taken from their present timeline (2021) The villains are fighting their respective Spider-Men in the past (2002-2014) so those Spider-Men that they’re fighting, haven’t actually gone anywhere.

[@tuffdude7795]

They weren't brought seconds from dying though. They were brought when they found out Peter was Spiderman

[@Aryan-ck9lv]

@@tuffdude7795 Doc Ock and Electro were though

[@ibellin1004]

@@Aryan-ck9lv If Doc Ock were seconds from dying he wouldn't be asking Peter for his fusion reactor not to mention he would be destroying his reactor to redeem himself, not to gain control over the power of the sun. Norman wouldn't have his mask or glider and be wounded so him having his mask in the scene it the alley way wouldn't make sense. That is if we're talking about the Raimi Trilogy, obviously not the same time as Tobey's time, but the same universe where the events that unfolded in the Raimi Trilogy were to unfold in there time.

[@luckyluke2671]

If you go by how the spell works in the comics, then everything makes sense. In the comics, the spell isn't a one time erase, but rather a permanent block. In the comics, when somebody is reminded of something that was wiped, the spell blocks them from re-learning it. So based on the comics, Mysterio's footage would still exist but if anybody watched it again, the spell would block their brain from actually retaining the information so after re-watching any footage that connects peter to spider-man, they would just immediately forget it again. That's why MJ still has her necklace and peter can get an apartment, because nothing physical has changed, people are just now brainwashed into being incapable of being able to remember blocked memories.

[@kingassasin6031]

Couldn’t have Peter wished for everyone to forget about mysterio’s video ?

[@matthewmckee6289]

yep. people are also just straight up forgetting the fact that it’s magic, it doesn’t have to make sense, and whatever the writers want to happen can happen because it’s magic and doesn’t need a proper explanation.

[@unguardedace]

Question to you then, what if Peter had reintroduced himself as spider man to MJ and Ned? Would they not be allowed to retain that information if there is a permanent block in place? Same goes for anyone in universe that he could want to know in the future, would they just be incapable of accepting that information then?

[@ZachzWinner]

oooh that explains btw i know some of you guys hate self promoters, but if you're really interested to check my song called end of the day out, i'd be glad tho. thank you :)

[@shilo5187]

@@unguardedace I'd assume the block would only affect memories from before the spell was casted, so any new memories created relating to him aren't affected.

[@Indecisive_Individual]

The real question is, what about the other spidermen? Are they forgotten too? Peter's wish was for everyone who knows Peter Parker to forget about him. But he's not the only Peter...?

[@Marshmellow_Cat]

That's what I was wondering for the whole year...you know that scene where they hug after Spiderman tells Dr.Strange to delete everything about him? I thought that he was gonna say something about the spell since they are Peter too....

[@robertt9342]

Easy solution, doctor strange waives his hands the right way so it refers to his universe.

[@mccoolfriend6818]

they're safe because the spell was for his reality not the other universes so only the earth of dr strage was affected which is why only there can we see the rips because thats the source of the spell

[@aclassicgarden7065]

(sorry if u havent seen ATSV, js thought this was intresting) ATSV actually proves this isnt the case, everyone still remembers peter parker and the mcu is tied to spiderverse (miguel outright calls it out twice)

[@mccoolfriend6818]

@@aclassicgarden7065 you mean ATSV ?

[@jjlortez]

Yeah, this was my one main complaint here. Except! Doc Oc. armed with the information that he did die and how, Along with presumably the core from the printer stands a chance of shutting it down safely. Goblen being sane means he won't fly his glider into himself. Also means his son survives in theory. Electro without the power to pull all that electricity and overload himself may survive. Lizard is a wash as he survives and is cured anyway. And Sandman lives but is just not mutated. Oh and some of the missing characters may have been there but just lost or hiding as Venom was.

[@krisw9526]

If I'm being honest, I was really disappointed to find out Venom would not be included

[@sonicinfinity1871]

Nah, they still die.

[@carverlewis4783]

Sand man and the lizard lived Sand man retreated into hiding and lizard got sent to an asylum after being cured

[@TheGunguy461]

You missed one thing: MJ and Ned were rejected from MIT because of their association with Spider-Man. With that association erased, they would have been accepted.

[@haydenma6199]

But doesn’t everyone still remember Spider-Man, and therefore people’s connections to him

[@hoochiemama2171]

@@haydenma6199 No because the only reason they know about Ned and Mj’s connection to Spider-Man is through Peter Parker and because Peter Parker basically doesn’t exist anymore, that connection is gone to.

[@wintertrooper7918]

@@hoochiemama2171 exactly Peter Parker = spiderman means Ned and mj don't get in but if no one knows who spiderman is anymore then they get in

[@lilkyafroninja4671]

@@wintertrooper7918 but they didnt move back in time did they? they just started a new day i think.

[@wintertrooper7918]

@@lilkyafroninja4671 yeah but everyone forgot who Peter Parker is and because of that they have no reason not to accept mj and Ned

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

The saddest news is the fact that everything Sony related won't be connected to the MCU as you've said. They just teased us to mess with our feelings.

[@ChileanIggy]

who knows. I mean, they've flip flopped multiple times over the years. It's literally nothing but a financial stand-off. As soon as both parties feel like there's a way for both of them to be satisfied with the deal, they'll find a way to bring spider man back into the MCU. It's stupid that that's what it comes down to but it is what it is.

[@invisiblefan2387]

To me it doesn’t seem likely that they’ll keep him out of the next avengers movie. There’s no friendly neighborhood Spiderman if there’s no neighborhood. Plus the avengers movies will make a lot of more money if they have Spiderman in there.

[@JoeLoquacious]

@@ChileanIggy GUYS, I found a HUGE LEAK FOR THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOVn3modt6arsU…

[@invisiblefan2387]

@023 Studios: Works for me. With any luck will get an adaptation of ends of the earth or spider island. Maybe even superior Spider-Man

[@Extremezotako]

Yeah

[@rialyandriamiseza9814]

I always assumed the memory spell worked by merging existing alternate reality in an adaptive way that would fit the requirement. That would allow the writers to make easy retcon for upcoming stories and would also explain why it ends up messing up the multiverse.

[@Blattacker]

If I remember my comics right, they could be continuing the Civil War plotline connections where everyone's memories are still "there" just blocked. In a couple instances (the one that stands out in my head right now is the Human Torch) people spent enough time around Spidey after the spell that they began to realize that they used to know his true identity, but can't remember it now. Once he revealed his true identity, all the memories came back. Physical evidence was marred (a statue of him somewhere had the face become weathered to the point of being unrecognizable), so it could be that the full Mysterio video exists, but when he says "Peter Parker" the audio is muffled, or it glitches, or gets hit with insane compression artifacts so that the name is no longer recognizable. It wouldn't be the exact same as the comics, because (again, if I recall correctly) Peter Parker still had his personal connections, as did Spider-Man, it was just the link between them that was obscured, but it's close enough that I think it may be at least the vibe the screenwriters were going for.

[@MandatoryFruit]

Actually, I think the Vulture not knowing Peter's identity probably works out better for us. Originally Vulture wasn't willing to give out Peter's identity. Not only because Peter saved both his and Liz's lives, but also because Liz was affiliated with Peter, which could potentially lead to villains trying to hurt Peter through Liz. But now, all Vulture knows is that Spider-Man put him in prison, and ruined the life of his family. If anything, Vulture has *even more* incentive to take out Spider-Man than he ever did before. No knowledge of Spider-Man's identity = no threat to Liz. No threat to Liz = no reason not to form the Sinister Six and take Spidey out.

[@Mukation]

Had Peter not engaged him, he would have died. He saved his life and Vulture realised that fact when the plane blew up. Vulture not revealing who Peter is, is out of respect for that fact. Still, he doesn't see Peter as a "friend" obviously. Anyways, he doesn't know Peter being Spider-man anymore after Strange's spell.

[@wzxed]

I DID THE SAME COMMENT MAN LOL WE THINK SIMILAR AND I THINK ALOT OF PEOPLE DO

[@JinKee]

i think the Sinister Six could still form out of a desire for money and sticking it to the billionaires.

[@twitterodammit5082]

@@Mukation but we havent seen him be thankful for it

[@michaeliv284]

Here's my 2¢ on the matter. Mac Gargan would remember his conversation with Toomes in prison, saying there was a rumor that he knows who Spider-Man is. Especially since it has no baring on him knowing Peter. Vulture could try to keep the Sinister Six loyal or in line by bluffing his knowledge whilst trying to peice things together

[@fictionalspirit4194]

Just pointing this out here but it was always my personal headcanon that when Doc Ock said "I will not die a monster" he decided to sacrifice himself to plunge the Fusion Reactor into the river with him along with it since he knew he would lose himself to the tentacles again so if he's cured he'll just plunge it in there WITH the help of Spider Man and escape to live another day.

[@theoutsiderjess4869]

I was happy that he stayed heal after getting electrocuted

[@ferillion_mangos]

Here's something I wanted to point out, after curing electro, he had an ark reactor in his hands, which would likely be able to handle the fusion reactor, M A Y B E

[@MiloMurphysLaw]

Yeah, I’m sure he could find a way to survive and still stop the Reactor from killing anyone. So by fixing the tentacles, Peter did save him.

[@JadeSpecter]

Yeah, just like the version from HISHE where he Plunged the Machine but escaped with Spiderman

[@JoeLoquacious]

@@theoutsiderjess4869 GUYS, I found a HUGE LEAK FOR THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOVn3modt6arsU…

[@render4069]

Also, while casting the spell the first time, Peter told Dr Strange, that Aunt May, MJ (girlfriend) and Ned ( best friend) should still know, so basically, they were taken out of the equation

[@notsyzagts7967]

Wrong because this was a separate spell, the first one doesn't just get merged into it. The newer one takes precendence.

[@mojang9035]

Also for those who confused Peter had to swap out his suit because the system remembers him as Peter Parker not Spider-Man but she knows he's Spider-Man but mainly knows him as Peter Parker if that makes sense which is why he was in a different suit at the end of the movie

[@zipperfingers749]

Nah that didn't make sense.

[@mojang9035]

@@zipperfingers749 Peter lost his suit because the suit recognizes him as Peter Parker not Spider-Man and in the movie at the end everyone and every sentient being forgot who Peter Parker was.

[@TBoneBG]

He just wanted a fresh start, to be his own person not iron man jr. No more stark tech and gadgets.

[@mr_snow_23]

@@TBoneBG well he will still have gadgets just hommade

[@Mista_Mist]

@@TBoneBG nah, his suit was all messed up after the fight, since he no longer has access to Stark technology he probably thought it was a better idea to make a new one. He was never Iron Man Jr btw, they made two movies where the whole point was that he wasn't.

[@davidwallace7543]

Well to be fair, the MIT part could be explained by saying they would’ve gotten into MIT to begin with. The main reason they didn’t was because of the reputation of Peter, not necessarily that they had bad grades. So that one isn’t necessarily Peter’s doing. I agree with everything else though

[@identity9590]

This is why I came to the comments lmao 😂

[@dripyonko_3912]

@@identity9590 fr I was thinking the same thing 🤣

[@redmage808]

Also, in the movie I'm pretty sure Tom just tells the lady to reevaluate Neds and MJs application, not his. So that lingering thought to reevaluate their applications might still took effect?

[@Hulkitout]

Pretty much because when the lady came back to ask for their apps to be reevaluated the school forgetting Peter would have been like, "whoops why did we send that initial denial letter for no reason".

[@fatty1040]

@@redmage808 This right here. Remember peter is NOT REVERSEING ANYTHING. Everything is still going forward (time) so this is the most likely explanation. All that lady is going to remember is that spidetman saved her and probably was doing Mj and neds papers like she said she would.

[@sparkydoingthings9244]

the whole "only villains" thing can be easily explained. Peter and Strange weren't looking for everyone who crossed universes, they were looking for everyone who crossed universes that would cause trouble. Take Eddie and Venom for instance, They crossed universes, got drunk, and then were sent back when everyone else was. It's very likely that it wasn't just villians who crossed universes, we just didn't get to see most of the ones that weren't relevant to the plot.

[@joshuapasterkamp232]

Well I also remember Strange saying them being here is breaking the fabric of reality, so it's weird that Eddie and even Tobey and Andrew didn't have to be 'scooby-dooed' like the villians

[@hal7741]

@@joshuapasterkamp232 Peter by the point they were in his apartment, probably already settled on these being the only ones. Mostly because they were the ones starting problems and getting attention. Eddie and venom were just chilling and not drawing attention. And the other peters were helping out and still got sent back to their realities, so they didn’t have to be “scooby-do’ed”

[@biga7682]

Yeah, I think in the future they might use this to say that characters like maybe Morbius got transported over to the MCu but we never heard about them

[@Tigery760]

@@biga7682 I believe that there was a mention in the movie of someone flying over a military base but Peter dismisses it as Gobby. It wouldn't make sense for it to be Green Goblin nor Electro since neither of em were anywhere near those locations or needed anything from there. But you can easily say it brought Morbius in temporarily throughout the 3 day time period and got sent back along with the others.

[@shinobiqueenv6583]

Exactly. The only reason they found the other Peters, was because Ned was looking SPECIFICALLY for Peter Parker, not anyone that would help.

[@natejohanson2505]

What if the villains were sent back to their universes but at a later time? Like the time the spent in the MCU occurred in their own universes before they returned? It could solve a lot of their deaths as well. Norman would have come back after his glider almost killed Spider-Man, Doc Ock would have returned after his machine was destroyed, etc. It would prevent them from going back to just still die.

[@ShadowPhoenix82]

That was highly appreciated. I also thought the enemies still died and wasn't too put off by that. Thought it was cool, tragic irony the characters never considered. But the VERY end? Does he have an identification? Did he never go to their school? Was everything erased? How does she have the necklace? I really, REALLY appreciate you offering really sound possible explanations for that! 🥰

[@TheStartrek99]

Actually, the Dock Oc point fixes one of my biggest problems with the movie Doctor Octopus is from, that being why he had to drown himself with the machine. The answer is, because he knows his ability to control his arms is temporary and if he doesn't drown himself he will revert to a villan eventually. Now he doesn't have to drown himself with his machine.

[@jdmarsh91]

No, he drowns himself because he has to drag down a massive machine into the river. He chooses to be the one to do this instead of Peter because now he’s got a clear mind and realizes the horrible things that he’s done. Hence the line “I will not die a monster.”

[@franciscopetrucci]

@@jdmarsh91 Man, that is such a good movie. Definitively my favorite from aaall (live action) spidermans. And the train scene?!? Awesome.

[@jordirapper]

He doesn't turn on the machine though. He only did that at the very end meaning he doesn't have to drown the machine and himself.

[@shadowmaster335]

@@jordirapper it shows the clip where he has spider-man by the throat, he had turned the machine on even before peter arrived to fight, so yes, the machine was on, and was self sustaining at that point, he was legit seconds from the scene where he drowns himself when he got pulled

[@SundaeNewsPaper]

That's a good point dude...lol he really doesnt have to drown himself haha that machine could sink on its own haha

[@khulekanimagubane9153]

If the last spell in the movie applies to Dr Strange as well, then in the events of The Multiverse of Madness, Strange doesn't immediately know why the Multiverse is fractured...because for him to remember the spell, he would have to remember why he cast it, which would mean he would have to remember Peter.

[@aintijustthecutest3863]

Like Matt explained, the only thing that was erased was the memory of "Peter Parker", but the connections & actions he (& as Spiderman) created didn't. Dr. Strange doesn't need to know who "Peter Parker" is to see that there's something wrong with the multiverse.

[@idontcareaboutyouropinion8494]

@@aintijustthecutest3863 Actually he does . The whole reason he helped SPIDER MAN was because he knew PETER . Why tf would he risk messing up the world for some random dude lol . Makes no sense at all

[@rhaeasoul8531]

Just like all of Spider-Man’s deeds I think he’ll remember casting a spell after a request by someone but won’t know why. Maybe he’ll feel something about it but just won’t know why becuase of the Spider-Man separation; kinda like how sometimes you’ll wake up still feeling emotions from a dream but not remember the dream. Just like I’m sure peters friend remember those adventures but now they only remember helping Spider-Man.

[@aintijustthecutest3863]

@@idontcareaboutyouropinion8494 What I'm saying was "after the fact". Erasing his memory of Peter Parker wouldn't change anything about him noticing that there's something wrong with the multiverse. We're not talking about erasing "time" here, only the memory.

[@christianemerson4622]

Which would then mean that the spell didn't matter, and once again, the writers f*cked up

[@justanothercomment9978]

It was a great movie, Willem Dafoe was fantastic, and Tom Hardy plays Venom SO WELL

[@nickypool415]

Tom Hardy didn't appear in the movie (Except for the end credit scene)

[@lutherholayeahme7449]

@@nickypool415 you just stated a paradox

[@sonicinfinity1871]

Nope.

[@sonicinfinity1871]

Nope.

[@diasent]

Doc Oct was still a bad guy when he had him by his throat. the lizard wasn't cured yet, and Osbourne wanted to be cured, it was the Green Goblin that didn't want to be cured. It's all about when in their timeline they were pulled into Holland's universe. Clearly, they were pulled from different points in time from their universe.

[@LapisLazulu]

To add to this, I don’t really think it matters what may or may not have happened to the baddies when they got sent back. It was the thought that counted. Peter not willing to send people to their deaths. Whether they actually died when they got back was out of his control, but he did what he thought gave them the best chance of survival.

[@brohiddlesby7010]

With the whole “saving the villains is futile” point…this is admittedly a flimsy counter argument, but the best way around that is to say the villains after the end of No Way Home actually become time variants of their prime counterparts, essentially just creating an alternate timeline within their respective movies.

[@kiwiyaya1556]

What does the word futile mean??

[@papinacho-kun2840]

@@kiwiyaya1556 it means pointless

[@aimanali8558]

I dont get it. This works for the Goblin since him being cured and alive would lead to changes in the events that followed, and Spiderman 2 and 3 would not have happened as they did, so the Doc Ock, Sandman and TObey Spiderman we know are effectively dead/literally retconned. So it makes sense for timelines to split there with one being the Sam Raimi canon and the other with a cured goblin. But it still doesn't help with Doc Ock. And wouldn't electro get electrocuted to death? I think the time variant stuff is important for Norman Osborn, Sandman, and possibly electro/Lizard. BEcause f they were cured and sent back too their respective times the changes would be massive and the spidermen that we saw in NWH wudnt exist. But still Doc ock is an issue

[@conradw.2]

@@aimanali8558 I think what they mean is the timeline branches off in respect to each character so for example, When Doc Ock returns to the new branched timeline the events before still took place like Spiderman 1 with goblin dying and such, same with Sandman. He returns but the events before are still the same like Spiderman 1 & 2 both goblin and doc ock are still dead. Same with the spidermen, Tobey returns to his timeline where the events of Spiderman 1, 2, & 3 still took place same with Andrew. None of the events in NWH changes the past of the characters and their universes. Each character returns to their own seperate timeline that is different only AFTER they have returned to it. All the events leading up to that point still happened. As for Electro returning and being electrocuted and Doc Ock still dying etc. I don't know how they'd get around that. The writers should written that they was taken at a moment where they can return and not die. Maybe the spell safely returns them like how undoing the Snap returned people who were on planes or boats to the nearest piece of land instead of them falling in the ocean but that would prolly be assuming too much.

[@vistavistalium636]

@@conradw.2 that seems to be the most plausible explanation. Each villain in NwH returned to their own new timeline. Creating three new branches of timeline in Tobey's universe and two new branches in Andrew's. While Tobey and Andrew return to the prime timeline of their respective universe.

[@theelephantintheroom69]

To be fair to Tom's Peter, he could never predict that the villains were inevitably going to redeem themselves or be killed. By the time the other Peters came into the frame, Tom Peter's decision was made and Aunt May had died.

[@hendkaram4020]

Wowww kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc….

[@aryreyesoli]

To add to this, neither the villains know they died. Marko knew both Ock and Osborn died, but he was unsure about his own faith. It becomes even more obvious when Connors asks “Max, do you know if I died?” He was terrified with the idea that he could have, thus wanting to be cured “just in case.”

[@redgeoblaze3752]

@@aryreyesoli Well, Doctor Connors wasn't really that concerned about his own safety. He just knew that Spider-Man would stop him, so decided to try a different route with some new allies.

[@TheUKisThere]

@@aryreyesoli And I didn’t know, either, because I hadn’t seen TASM 1 or 2 yet. I was like how did they reuse a scene to show him being cured? I thought they used a transformation scene, but no. They just pulled the same move as the original.

[@othetinggoesskrrrahhpappap2480]

*kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZiYeaOPbtWod5I*

[@-Jimini-]

Honestly, now that they’ve loosely confirmed that there’s going to be another Tom Holland Spider-Man Trilogy, part of me expects that they’re going to pull some sort of Xion and have the memories be recollected from data and other memories.

[@Tushar_S_007]

A small suggestion (and I am telling this only because I love the MCU ): But could it be that no one noticed Doc Ock's transportation to Tom's Universe, he got cured here and went back to Tobey's universe, realises his mistake, and finally makes the decision to save the city by sacrificing himself. It would explain Doc Ocks sudden change of mind and be a way cooler ending to THE OG Spider-Man 2 Film. Just a cool theory I thought about. But hey that's just a theory. A mini theory. AAAND CUT

[@misty_redquill9402]

I think it’s possible that Otto survived after being returned to his timeline. I always interpreted the ending of Spider-Man 2 as Otto choosing to die with his machine, since we know that he was having thoughts of suicide before the arms convinced him to rebuild. Without the arms influence, he would have a clear enough head to get himself out of there before he gets dragged under, saving himself.

[@daredcell9563]

Yeah like Otto had time to escape instead he let himself drown.

[@Rylocand]

In my opinion I think with the new technology of tom’s world he might have been able to reverse the reaction or something that was unstable for the time being. Like if the power source to shut it down wasn’t strong enough

[@Kytseo]

There's also Multiverse Theory as we know it. He could've been plopped into an alternate timeline.

[@junaydfisher211]

But how would he stop the machine without sacrificing himself, wasn't his sacrifice necessary to stop it? Maybe there's some loophole if he's quick enough to somehow get out of there, but imo it's unlikely. And he already overcame the influence of the arms before sacrificing himself, I don't see how the arms were influencing him that much in his final moments.

[@Smiggly2574]

@@Kytseo Each bad guy being pulled resulted in three timeslines. 1 is the original as seen in the movie. The second when they were pulled and it goes on without them. The third is when they were returned

[@mistarat3988]

If I remember correctly, when we first see the box, Doctor Strange talks about how he contained the spell, but "a few of them slipped through." This could also explain the villain thing, conveniently the villains and Spider-Men made it through but no one else.

[@funnybunny2515]

Wowww kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc.

[@zen2480]

Mary jane for example couldve gotten in the universe but she would just be a random person

[@JoeLoquacious]

@@zen2480 GUYS, I found a HUGE LEAK FOR THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOVn3modt6arsU…

[@HeliteGamer]

Also Eddie Brock from the Venom movie is there in the post-credit scene

[@zen2480]

@@HeliteGamer in venom 2 he says venom has hivemind knowledge meaning he and the venom from spiderman 3 would share knowledge including knowledge that peter is spiderman

[@jesse_reznor]

I liked how electro was portrayed. He wasn't necessarily evil He just wanted what he wanted and was willing to do what was necessary to accomplish that. He continuously tells Spider-Man not to make him murderer or don't make him do something he'd regret. He genuinely doesn't want to do it but it's fully prepared to do it. otherwise you wouldn't have said anything he would have just done it

[@wh-3354]

I think the main thing with ‘Make everyone forget I ever existed’ applies to all the media, the texts, the book, the application, everything. It erases all notions of Peter’s existence.

[@shinobiqueenv6583]

My only criticism on this theory is that he helped them get into MIT. That was only AFTER they were denied due to "recent events" involving their close friend, and said relationship. So if anything him being wiped would just, by default, give them better chances.

[@PrincessLioness]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking.

[@TheCursedCat1927]

Yeah, but they would still have to call them on their own. So they just skipped that.

[@pieoverlord]

Weeeeell, since they were denied already and had no plans to reapply or contest, MIT would have no reason to go back over their application. Whereas, in this theory, the MIT lady would remember SPIDERMAN convincing her to give those two kids a second chance - for whatever reason - which would lead to them being reassessed without any Parker-related baggage, thus giving them the all-clear. I guess.

[@CrispyPillow6]

also at 11:06 i think happy said that to hide peter's identitiy

[@paulpolpiboon9535]

@8:37 "make everyone FORGET me" "Then they would have no MEMORY of you". So "Memory" +"Forget" shows then it's a MEMORY spell that he casts not a reality changing spell. Thennn....what happens when they discover all the records of parker; his driver liscense on file, his birth certificate, his signatures, his social security? His PHOTOGRAPHS with his friends in thier albums, on thier PHONES???? His social media, the picture of him in the Yearbook, the news footage played of his secret exposed on the news channels file and all over youtube?? Since it's not a reality altering spell that erases real things and it's actually a MEMORY spell that wipes their memory, then won't people be going "hey who's this kid standing next to me in all these dam photos??" "Why in my class am I grading this paper of a kid who doesnt exist?" Bad writing. By bad writers who should watch the Star Trek episode w/Picard called "Clues", the paxons wiped thier memory but couldnt erase the physical reality of a missing whole day. SMH

[@genericname_]

My head cannon for Doc Ock is that during his time being cured in the MCU he had more time to think of a way to take down his machine in a safe way where he doesn’t have to die. This isn’t stated in the movie at all but I feel like it’s a cool thought and it’s what I like to believe.

[@magnom3922]

If think now there must've been safe options for all of them

[@eldeuls1237]

but can you imagine that doc ock actually brought the arc reactor, venom shown that they can leave something behind so I think they can also take something. He was holding it and there's no scene of him letting it go and he probably wouldn't since the arc reactor is made with the same purpose as his fusion reactor, and he can hold it in his hands so maybe he can find a way to stabilize it with the arc reactor.

[@benl.4577]

@@eldeuls1237 exactly my thoughts. Found a way for unlimited clean energy without the fusion reaction.

[@Kurtster600]

Head cannon

[@JonathanRodriguez-nz9nw]

I feel the same, he is a genius, he can figure out how to save the day without dying

[@UserIdkwattodo]

Depending on when the Lizard was transported to the MCU, the Lizard cure could possibly save Gwen and her father. If the Lizard was transported to the MCU before he hurts George Stacy (Gwen's father) he would come back as normal Curt Connors and George would survive. He also told Peter to keep Gwen away from danger, so he would probably stop her from getting involved with the fight and save her life. (I know this video was made a while ago, but I still wanted to share) Edit: I also just realised a pattern. All of the villains seem to be transported a little bit after they learn Peter's identity. For example Peter takes his mask off before asking Otto how to turn off the machine. Then Otto gets mad and grabs him by the throat. Electro is transported when he is absorbing power in the grid. This point in the movie takes place just a little bit after Gwen calls out Peter's name. So if the pattern continues the Lizard would be cured and transported back to before he killed George Stacy.

[@knepperstudios1024]

I think Peter's friends still crossed into the MCU, but they never encountered the main characters. Kinda like Eddie Brock at the end of the movie.

[@Tony_AM009]

One question that I had was: Does the spell of everyone forgetting about Peter Parker only affect the Tom Holland "Peter Parker", or does the lack of specifying which Peter Parker is targeted mean that the spell affects any and every Peter Parker in the multiverse?

[@calebhammond1357]

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[@snin3202]

Same thinking here. Especially with morbius trailer..why They wrote Tobey's spiderman as murderer. That would be cool if the spell affect other universes too.

[@crimsonskrub8984]

@@snin3202 thats actually supposed to be Andrews spiderman

[@willooooooo]

@@crimsonskrub8984 it’s tobeys suit but Garfield is rumoured to be in it

[@snin3202]

@@willooooooo oh God. Good! That rumour 🔥-up my expectation even more

[@voiddragon8233]

I literally had the same EXACT question right after leaving the film with my granparents. I were telling them about all of the unexplained things and they were just confused lol

[@Balls26672]

Xd

[@ericstorm6582]

Things didn't need to be explained, it was quite clear that they were sent back right to the moment where they found out Peter was Spider-Man which isn't evne close to where they died except for Doc Ock

[@shattercube1898]

I just like to think that its gonna be a concept for a future spiderman movie where everyone realizes that they all have one weird blur in their memory and they somehow all remember him and the universe collapses again

[@noelward7491]

Lmao same thing with my mam 😂😂

[@ducktaledudette]

@@ericstorm6582 OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH That would be AWESOME

[@The_Infamous_Boogyman]

But Peter doesn't need that GED book at all, he's a genius.

[@jayshirley8274]

i assume he has it, just to look authentic.

[@maiyaburgess2406]

WOW!!!! Extremely well done theory at the end there!!! Like holy moly, that’s so impressive how you were able to define the peter parker spell. It seemed way too tricky to me!!! Great job!!

[@forgarate0648]

I'm impressed with how MatPat was able to make everthing about the plots and background info click together. Hats of to you sir.

[@Antonio-ys5zd]

Umm hate to say but he isn't right if you break it down further. Take the apartment for example. We know in universe that people can pay for new identities which explains why he doesn't have the suit during the final scene because he sold it. Also based on the final scene we see it is sometime in December meaning a few months passed giving Peter time to find a job. And depending on where the apartment is located and if it is up to code then explains how Peter can remain stable

[@LuisSierra42]

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in the movie but i was so hyped that i didn't care

[@KT-qk9ip]

@@Antonio-ys5zd ok but that doesn't disprove him it just give another option to make him right

[@Antonio-ys5zd]

@@KT-qk9ip it disproves a portion of his theory if these are to be taken with a grain of salt

[@thetacticalshield5211]

wait if only those who knew peter is spiderman came from across the universes the why did Eddie Brock(Tom Hardy) came into the MCU ,he didn't know peter is spiderman infact there no spiderman in his universe or is there ?

[@WERTYUIO821]

"Why only the villains" Honestly, the plotline I was thinking about during the movie was if Andrew's spiderman finds an alive Gwen and becomes the Star Lord of the film.

[@phoenixwhiler943]

I mean Gwen and MJ were supposed to come but to many characters

[@Red_MOON187]

Where does it say that?

[@WERTYUIO821]

@@Red_MOON187 At 5:00

[@Red_MOON187]

@@WERTYUIO821 Yeah, I mean where does it say Marie Jane and Gwen Stacy were going to come, but it'd be too big a cast? I doubt they'd be put in the film, considering they'd (Garfield and Maquire included.) wanted the film to be more about Hollands Peter and not the other twos because they'd over shadow Hollan's Story. :l

[@Commanderziff]

Who's to say it was only the villains? The other two Peter's say they'd been wandering around looking for that world's Spiderman since they got here. For all we know some other characters were also transported there, but were keeping their heads down, or weren't sure how to contact anyone. The villains are the ones who would be attracting attention, smashing their way around through the city. That's about the only thing about the whole premise that isn't problematic, there's no requirement for a certain amount of Spiderman characters to be here, Strange stopped the spell before too many of them could get through, these just happen to be the ones who got through. Again, even if there were others, they wouldn't necessarily attract much attention. Captain Stacy from Garfield's movie might have been there, and just spent the day at the Captain America museum or something.

[@sobosoup]

I’m so excited to see how they’re going to continue Peter Parker’s character. I personally think one of the avengers (or the guardians of the galaxy) are gonna drag Spider-Man back (because he’s still an avenger) and Spider-Man is going to fight with them again. Maybe dr strange will remember who Spider-Man is. The avengers at some point are going to know who Peter Parker is, and how he was associated with Tony Stark. I’m super excited for Peters new role in the MCU

[@dante898]

I know you’ve done a Bee Movie theory before but, hear me out, I think a theory estimating how many bees would actually be needed to hold and fly a plane would be very interesting to watch. (Or if it’s even possible for any amount of bees to do so)

[@animosital1645]

"That leaves Electro andGreen Goblin, neither of whom want to be cured." True, but what the movie considers important is that Norman Osborne does. In fact, it's his desire to be freed from the Goblin that causes Peter to try to save all of the villains in the first place. Both the Original Spider Man as well as No Way Home make it clear that the Goblin acts as a sort of second consciousness that can take control of the body from Osborne, which leads to the question of who you would rather help, a mentally strained man desperately clinging on to the sanity he has left, or a murderous psychopath responsible for the trauma of the former. The answer is so obvious I shouldn't have to finish this sentence telling you what the right ans- A similar argument can be had for Electro. The ethical nature of your decision becomes rather redundant when dealing with someone who's thrown out ethics to begin with. That and yourself and others will likely die if you don't cure them. Human lives lost tend to be a big factor in decisions like this.

[@redgeoblaze3752]

It was a little less overt in the Raimi Movies, but in the comics, he's very clearly a person with split personalities. It's something I actually think this movie did pretty well.

[@arkhtyi9456]

Also, not to mention Sandman that the movies softly implies that he can't go back to a normal human form. I'm sure he would still prefer to meet his daughter in flesh and bone, not sand.

[@michaelalder3709]

@@arkhtyi9456 I was just gonna say that too, I feel like Mat has fallen off his game in the past few years..consistently glossing over key points

[@athernandez666]

@@michaelalder3709 one of the worst offenders was in one of his X-Men movies related theories.

[@T-Dawg-uo6ln]

@@arkhtyi9456 To add, it doesn't matter that Sandman didn't actually die in his movie, there's no possible way for him to know that. As far as he knew, he was just the latest science experiment gone wrong, clashing with Spider-Man and ending up dead.

[@GeorgeCowsert]

I'm honestly not surprised that Spidey and Strange botched the spell, considering Strange is too eager to dive into stuff he shouldn't and is far too used to just "getting things done" so he didn't even consider that Peter might wanna exclude some people. Then, Peter just realizing he has several people he still wants to keep in the loop mid-spell in a typical "my actions are moving faster than my thoughts" way just made for a beautiful recipe for disaster. I do sortof wanna see a alternate script where Peter managed to specify he wanted everyone to forget everything regarding Mysterio, as that'd cover his identity and the false murder charges.

[@Sampath460]

U r smarter than spider man and doctor Strange

[@fatty1040]

"Didnt even consider peter might wanna exclude some people" Bruh that consideration is what caused this mess in the first place, Thats why Dr Strange was mad that he didnt even call the college yet and went straight to magic. Strange thought spidey suffered too much but realized his biggest problem is just an identy crisis and peter not growing up. "Trying to live 2 lives" that was the point of this movie. Crushing peters naive nature and showing us the trailer that dr strange is also living 2 lives.

[@Droneman711slurpee]

@@fatty1040 when you panic you don’t think straight

[@joshwhite5730]

But then he would not be boyfriend with mj

[@wintertrooper7918]

Stephen Strange is a master of magic and one of the greatest heroes in the MCU but if he sees a chance to use powerful magic he's like a kid in a candy store

[@Kiwisam_]

Matpat being surprised by a new cutout of him is genius

[@charlesl2593]

I think they could explain it away (with a little slop maybe), by saying the spell took the shortest route to rewrite memories, with as few changes as possible. So it would depend on how well the person knew Peter and whether they thought of him primarily as "Peter Parker" or "Spiderman" whether he was suited up or not. Happy and the other Avengers would forget Peter Parker but remember Spiderman pretty clearly, because they mostly know "Spiderman" and think of Peter Parker as Spiderman's secret identity. In other words, the memory files in their brains would think of Peter Parker as a subset of Spiderman. It would make their memories tend to skew towards Spiderman as the main identity. So maybe Happy remembers that Aunt May was related to Spiderman as a caretaker, but not Spiderman's real identity because it's easier to overwrite that way. Like he'd remember Aunt May saying "That's Peter [Parker]'s room," but now he thinks of it as "That's Spiderman's room" when he recalls it. But People like Ned and MJ, because they were so intimate with Peter, would have re-written all their memories of Spiderman with Peter's identity. They wouldn't think, "That time Spiderman saved me." even if they didn't know his identity at the time. They would have thought "The time Peter [Parker] saved me.", so they'd have a lot more memories overwritten. Like it could depend on whether you think of Peter Parker as "Peter Parker" the person who happens to be Spiderman(whether he's in costume or not), or "Spiderman" the superhero with the secret identity of "Peter Parker". Sort of the way fans from our world would meet Peter Parker and say, "Dude! You're Spiderman!" because we think of him as Spiderman with his costume off. Like if he died and someone else became Spiderman, we'd think of Peter as "the original Spiderman" rather than the human being who was Peter Parker. But for MJ and Ned, he would always be Peter Parker.

[@keelanbarron928]

Problem with the "doc ock still dies" thing: 1. In the movie Spider-Man asked to help stop the reactor and Otto said that he would do it alone. (with the new timeline, maybe he asked Peter for help that time.) and 2. He basically committed suicide since his last words were "I will not die a monster". (and because of his experiences in the mcu and if spider-man help him with the reactor, that could mean that he doesn't die there.)

[@Mary.sLb3]

wow underrated much

[@Antasma1]

That litterly doesn't answer any questions

[@violetlavi2207]

Also...Otto has the arc reactor when he goes back. That has to count for something

[@Red_MOON187]

@@violetlavi2207 Not sure what he could do with it within like 2 minutes from returning. :/ At least he has perfect control of his Tentacles and is not being mind-controlled by them. THAT is what should be counting for something.

[@violetlavi2207]

@@Red_MOON187 well he does have Peter’s help this time (Peter offered to help in the original move, and Otto said no, but he would likely say yes this time), and the arc reactor, so that has to mean something 🤷‍♀️

[@theunvlogchannel792]

The real question: Shouldn't MJ still remember the existence of Dr. Strange? Wouldn't this make it more plausible for her to believe the story about the spell, and so easier for her relationship with Peter to start again?

[@umario251]

I think you're right, because that combined with everything he knows about her that no one else would would prove it, but he hesitated because of how he made her get hurt and because it'd be a bit hard and awkward and worrying if you're able to reignite it all, knowing you were together isn't enough to determine whether she will fall in love again or care to give him that chance

[@mrbonlino]

@@umario251 i think this is closer to peter not wanting to involve them in his life again, regardless of how. his life is dangerous, and both MJ and ned are happy without him. so to get to know them once again will only put their lives back in danger. this memory erasure gave them a second chance to lead a normal life without the threat of being kidnapped and used for ransom for spiderman, and thats what i think peter was thinking about when he made the decision to leave the coffee shop. that being said, Tom peter's MJ is sharp as a tack, and would probably sift through her memories eventually of all the inconsistencies, and figure it back out again a 2nd time (where did this necklance come from? i got it from being in danger and spiderman saved me. who is spiderman? why does he seem to be around alot in my memories of late? etc. etc.)

[@akaneriyun4774]

No since MJ met Strange through Peter. It's the inverse of Happy's situation.

[@shade08538]

Well that wasn’t the problem, Peter noticed that bandage on MJ’s head which was really important. The reason he didn’t tell her was because he realized she’ll only be in more danger, and she has a full life ahead of her

[@hiddendagger7291]

No stranger and mj knew each other bcoz of peter so all Peter's memory got erased with that when he talk about strange or introduce strange to mj got erased too

[@evanedge3643]

It’s funny how the morbius thing wasn’t a fake out and the vulture is working with him in order to get back to his universe, he still knows peters identity due to being put in a different reality before the mind wipe

[@The_White_Wulf_]

i got to say mat, i have never seen a better explained theory so far. Good job

[@littleredruri]

11:00 That conversation actually happened the other way around, but whatever, not important. The reason Aunt May is still connected to Spider-Man without Peter Parker is that Spider-Man was FEAST's mascot, FEAST being the homeless shelter that May ran. He helped out a lot, did speeches, that sort of thing, and if you take Peter out of the equation that all still checks out.

[@johnjo3409]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/bGfZZoGQr8ykq6s ... wk

[@littleredruri]

you cannot understand how deeply I hate you and everything you stand for

[@MannyloAnimeSquad]

Why doesn't Peter's spell affect the other spiderman as well to where people in their universe forget about them too?

[@theleboshow4478]

i think it does cause i think the teaser for doctor strange shows the wish affected the multiverse

[@vokivoki552]

@@theleboshow4478 nope thats Mephisto i think dont google the name if u dont know who it is pls

[@accurate9052]

I think it’s because strange made so it was his Peter and not just every Spider-Man out there. So like idk Spider-Man 456 or Spider-Man 869

[@rpmguy648]

No, Dr Strange and Tom Holland Spider-Man wouldn't have done that unless they told Andrew Garfield and Tobey Maguire.

[@sunlynn4496]

Less complicated if it's just this Peter. If everyone forgot every Peter, then people won't forget alternate universe Pennys or Spider-Gwens, which is just annoyingly inconvenient. Also, Strange lost control of the initial spell, the memory wipe he'd be able to keep to people on his Earth.

[@thearoz4620]

My problem with this movie was that in the final moments where Tom Holland was asking strange to make everyone forget about him, strange just warns him that everyone that knew him and love him would forget him, like, dr. Strange could've said that the first time peter ask him for the spell, it would've avoided peter tampering with the spell and the whole movie's then useless. That's the story line of the movie, ik but if you think about it, it can be a stupid reason.

[@GiubileiFernando]

I think that the villains both come from and go back to different universes from those we saw in the previous movies. That explains the minor inconsistencies about them dying fighting Spider-Man or knowing his identity, and allows them to go back to their universes as cured people without messing with the timelines of Raimi's Spider-Man or Amazing Spider-Man.

[@ryanmcdonald2122]

What the spell does in the comics is that it puts a phycological block on anyone who knows Peter Parker. Anyone researching into who is spider man wouldn’t be able to figure it out even if all the evidence points towards Peter the spell stops people from making the connection. Happy would remember all his time with Peter but would remember who he is thus he might know that Spider-Man is a relative of May. Depending who the writers take it Ned and MJ might remember their times with Spider-Man and their relationship but they wouldn’t know Peter

[@12mmratchet84]

Have you seen the movie yet?

[@Sir-Vesh]

@@12mmratchet84 dude he litteraly explained how the spell works in comics

[@tasenova2717]

Ok, so with that in mind, can peter change his mind? or undo it for some people? or how about this, in the comics, does Peter ever try to get back with MJ just as a random person?

[@justadummy8076]

That’s literally, exactly what I was thinking was the reason

[@ryanmcdonald2122]

@Ila the video would still exist and it would show spider man sending the drones without the reveal of his face or who his name

[@jimmysampson9026]

It’s actually happy who asks how Peter knew May. Peter’s response is “through Spider-Man” which is vague enough to really negate all follow up questions happy might wrestle with.

[@BeastOps14]

You’d think after watching the movie several times he’d remember it was Peter that said he knew May through Spider-Man lol

[@BeastOps14]

@@SilverDusk1 I saw the movie three times recently and it’s definitely Happy that asks Peter how he knew May.

[@saxo689]

@@BeastOps14 peter says through spiderman and then happy says same

[@othetinggoesskrrrahhpappap2480]

*kzbin.info/www/bejne/gZiYeaOPbtWod5I*

[@CaptainBirdbeak]

And makes sense because Spider-Man was at May's charity event thing

[@forbidden_muffin]

It was so crazy in Morbius when Morbius paid homage to this video predicting him by his famous closing like, "that's just a morbius, a MORBING morbius, thanks for Morbing"

[@ParalelReacts]

we will all miss you matpat so long soldier

[@alexanderbaldwin1298]

I think Vulture's actually more of a threat now, as his sense of honour probably got lost alongside his memories of Peter, meaning him forming or joining the MCU sinister six is very much on the cards.

[@MugiwaraZero]

I was just about to comment this bro glad to see I’m not the only one who thought this

[@alistairetheblu]

@@poohbear6002 Yes, that's what they're talking about.

[@beanreeses4364]

As a

[@jeromem.evardome10_kr15]

They're going to recreate the "ME AND THE BOYS" meme template in real life

[@jimthar17]

But Vulture is now in the Garfield timeline. He gets pulled into it in Morbius. And that's Sony, not MCU.

[@bentleybassett3075]

I think it’s very possible the reason only the villains showed up is because the other characters didn’t draw attention to themselves, it’s a bit easier to point out someone with 4 giant mechanical arms than, say Mary Jane

[@joshhumphrey736]

Like the tom hardy venom post credit scene

[@quincyking010]

@@joshhumphrey736 but why did he get dragged in there is no Spiderman in his universe

[@charlesevanshughes3638]

@@quincyking010 Venom mentions something about his "multidimensional hive mind", which in effect is the writers saying "reasons".

[@insaincaldo]

And we know this, because even though the Spider-men sort of had some idea what could be happening, they were sort of just wondering around confused, having to be found.

[@render4069]

Also, while casting the spell the first time, Peter told Dr Strange, that Aunt May, MJ (girlfriend) and Ned ( best friend) should still know, so basically, they were taken out of the equation

[@jackiet820]

Spoiler: Doctor Strange said, "yeah we did the same thing with Peter Parker" or something like that in Doctor Strange 2 so does he remember Peter, and does Wong remember too? Also are all the Peters in every universe forgotten too.

[@joshua_2468]

He said Spiderman not Peter

[@jackiet820]

Yeah, I am not sure I just thought it was interesting and maybe meant something.

[@sera_sarzad]

I've always thought that Sandman died. After Peter forgave him, he finally had peace with himself and then moved on to the afterlife. The only thing keeping him from disintegrating into sand was his will to live.

[@strawberrygguk]

One question tho, didn't curing them and sending them back to their realities make new branches in the multiverse? And don't people have to forget Tobey's and Andrew's identity too for the spell to work?

[@dennisjohnson1809]

I was thinking the same thing…I think by doing that spell all spider man exist but all the Peter Parker’s life has change. Which mean that the multiverse will open up again.

[@m3diok3r]

i dont see that it matters much because tobey's and andrew's universe dont have supreme sorcerer to mess with the multiverse thus, whatever happens in their universe, they will need to handle it on their own

[@retrozip]

@@m3diok3r There is Dr. Strange in Tobey's universe though

[@scrp6638]

@@retrozip what how

[@retrozip]

@@scrp6638 it's an Easter egg. Jonah and his intern were trying to come up with villain names,

[@_rd_5043]

Maybe girlfriends, best friends, aunts also appeared in this dimension but the villains just make more mess so it's easier to know they're here. Nobody knew other spidermans were there because they haven't done anything publicly. We know they were there just because there was used a spell to locate them (because the spell didn't know which Peter Parker was supposed to be found).

[@clueanalysis2596]

Why wasn't Eddie/Venom from the Sam Raimi Spider Man Movie part of this in any way? He knew who Spider man really was

[@shawnsicle]

@@clueanalysis2596 I’m guessing because everyone hates James Franco right now, or because they already had so many villains and didn’t feel it was necessary

[@_rd_5043]

@@clueanalysis2596 the Venom from the latest movie appeared there and felt like he knew spiderman even though they didn't have spiderman in their universe. Maybe both Venoms got combined somehow? But anyway Strange stopped the spell before too many people got in this dimension so he could also just not teleport on time

[@clueanalysis2596]

@@shawnsicle I'm talking about Eddie/Venom, not Harry Osborn. Also why do people hate James Franco?

[@clueanalysis2596]

@@_rd_5043 Interesting idea, maybe. I just thought it was weird that the movie stopped one short of the sinister six and that some villains who knew Peter was Spiderman weren't present.

[@yoodler1131]

i honestly just think the spell would make all of the things Peter Parker did, under the name of Spiderman instead, so mj, ned, happy hogan would remember being "girlfriend of spiderman", "best friend of spiderman", etc. so all things peter did, is still there, and all things that happened to peter still exists, but just under the name of Spiderman

[@VanAugur14]

I actually think it's more like they just don't recognize it. In 5 kingdoms(amazing book series btw) when they shift dimensions, people forget they existed and everything that was there was just not recognized in there eyes. Idk, that's what I think

[@Cyrotech]

I literally just got out of the theatre the timing with this video was perfect lmaoo

[@funnybunny2515]

Wowww kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc….

[@cheeseymccheeserson5754]

Well I hope you enjoyed it! I certainly did!

[@youtubecat3809]

@@cheeseymccheeserson5754 so did the bots, who are expressing excitement above you

[@King-xf3og]

i watched it in spanish so i only understood half of the movie but i do know spanish just not extremely good at it

[@jaidynhalling2162]

Same

[@KawaiiBabyy13]

I'll have to disagree on this theory when it said it was a lost cause for Sandman. Yeah, he doesn't died but he does gets to return back as a physically human being. Which leads him to spend time with his daughter while aging alongside her until he dies first by old age.

[@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588]

But man, I wish Tobey's Spider-man would find a way to help with his financial problem. The money he needed to save his daughter is what made him a criminal in the first place.

[@Janoha17]

Marko got his life as a human back, while curing Connors (The Lizard) was about removing him as a threat, especially given that Garfield!Peter already knew how to make the cure for him.

[@bigsoda]

Isn't he a heavily wanted criminal though? It's been a while, but from what I remember him being sand is about the only reason he's not spending his life in prison.

[@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588]

@@bigsoda As Flint had said, he's not a bad guy, he just had bad luck. What sucks is that his real problem has not been solved: he's still a wanted criminal and he still doesn't have the money to save his daughter.

[@violetlavi2207]

@@bigsoda seeing as Norman knew these villains and has money to burn, I’m willing to bet he bailed some of them out after they were arrested (like Otto and Flint. Though probably not Max)

[@Fnaffan777]

Up to this point the best explanation I had for Electro knowing Peter’s identity was that “he absorbs data and figured it out right before” explanation but Matpat’s further analysis of it is REALLY GOOD. My head canon for the villains after being sent home is that they make new branch timelines where they potentially survive, it depends when they were plucked out. Sandman and Lizard would obviously survive, they never had to die. Electro could’ve survived afterwards now that he’s just a regular human so he wouldn’t be stuck to the grid absorbing energy eventually exploding. You’d think Green Goblin would die because he was plucked out right before his death by the glider but his suit at the beginning of the movie is completely clean while his suit is damaged in that final scene so he must’ve been plucked out to Tom’s world before the final battle with Tobey so he could survive. Doctor Octavious is sadly the one who would probably have to die either way unless they figured out some other way of dealing with the current problem at the end of Spider-Man 2. I think this theory also explains Peter’s identity and how that works too, great video all around!

[@badmerr6758]

The way they marketed this movie was genius too. Before I went to boot Camp for the army in October, they hadn’t released any trailer & the movie was set to come out Dec. 17 which was the day it came out. Two months before release & they were teasing w/ a leaked audio of the trailer. The 1st trailer came out sometime in Nov & when I saw it when they let us make our phone calls, I was hyped. Lucky for me, I was the last class of that year to complete BCT for 2021 & arrived the 17th & I went straight to the theaters instead of going home cause it was my sister’s bday that day & she was just as hyped as me 😂

[@kylerivera3470]

One of my favorite parts about this movie was the social commentary that kids these days aren't taught about what options they have for their lives. Specifically, I'm referring to how shocked Peter was that he could petition the college. In fact, I also learned about it for the first time watching this movie. I was never taught in in high school nor is it something I would even think to look up. Maybe a family member would have taught me if it became important, but that wouldn't help people who don't have a family that would help them with those sort of things. Of course, the actual entertainment aspects of the movie were also great, but this part just stood out to me since I didn't expect something this real to be included in a superhero movie.

[@HxH2011DRA]

Seriously, I was like "he can do that????" and got anxious when strange was mad he didn't know XD

[@vergilsonofsparda3019]

I always thought it was just a jab at how kids are willing to go nuclear instead of taking the easier, more adult route. Peter panicked and probably thought his life was over and there was nothing he could do via conventional means. I was the same way at that age, still do that sometimes.

[@Mizuna752]

@@vergilsonofsparda3019 As someone who literally tried it after seeing the movie and I have since been accepted. I can assure you it was about not knowing the options. I’m 22 years old and this is the first time I have ever heard of it being something you can do. The fact that an MCU taught me that and no school ever did borders on criminal.

[@sathreyn9699]

It can cut even deeper when you think about the family connection. Yes, maybe a family member could have told him (Using Peter Parker for the sake of example, rather than you, bit too personal) - But that would itself be contingent on them knowing. If all Peter has is Aunt May - Did Aunt May know he could do that? Did she ever go to college - Ever learn that this was an option? Dr Strange knew, but of course he would, he's a (noticably overachieving) doctor, he's already been there - Other people, who haven't had the same opportunities, probably don't. So people from a family where nobody has gone to college before are inherently more likely to miss these sort of second chance opportunities. It feeds back in to itself, as you can only learn about the possibility if you already know someone who is aware of it. It's the sort of thing people mean when they talk about hidden privilege, and we need to help everyone access it or you never know when somebody is going to jam a couple of multiverses together and unleash a bunch of insane serial killers on us.

[@JustKeepBreathing01]

@@HxH2011DRA Same I thought Strange was gonna strangle Peter 🤣

[@carlosocasio2247]

In my own head cannon, I like to think that everything that Peter had a direct physical influence with just becomes Spider-Man. Instead of “Peter did this “ it’s “Spider-Man did this”. He still has a social security and all that, but anyone that knew him just either can’t remember the more personal stuff, or is replaced with a Spider-Man memory. After all, it’s Magic. EDIT: I just watched to the end and yeah I agree, or if it was really personal again it’ll just be replaced with Spider-Man or forgotten entirely.

[@trinitylivingston1286]

So people that were close to him would still remember all the things he did even when he wasn't in costume but would think it was Spider-Man or would they forget those things?

[@vuo7ng]

Spider-man is Spider-man!!

[@carlosocasio2247]

@@trinitylivingston1286 I think they would sadly forget those personal moments. So if there were moments that included Spider-Man and they knew it was Peter in there, they would now only remember it being Spider-Man who saved the day.

[@charleswhaley7312]

@@carlosocasio2247 I feel like the memory would just be hazy and they just glide over it. Like if Ned was talking to someone about school and they’re just like “I hated gym class.” And he’s like “ me too. We used to do so many sit-ups.” He would remember the sit ups with Peter but glaze over the fact that it was with Peter. Just a quick flash of a memory you know.

[@bigtonithegreatjamboni9850]

That makes no sense

[@NeosPrime]

You forget that Doctor Octavius was in possession of an arc reactor when he was returned to his reality. I imagine he would have used the device to absorb and contain the fusion reactor’s energy.

[@Drawlan]

Continuing matpat’s train of thought. What if the reason Spider-Man chose not to talk to MJ and Ned is because of the side effects on perception from the magical spell? For example, the magic spell didn’t change anything just people’s perception, so Peter trying to talk to people who is under this perception nullification about his identity contradicts this spell. So the spell also subtly changed Peter’s idea of finding and explaining himself to Ned and MJ. Additional clues, Dr. Strange overheard everything Peter, Ned and MJ said about asking Peter to find them and fill them in, and still acted and responded with a “good knowing you Spider-Man” showing that he believes this is a permanent change.

[@luke8558]

In the comics, when a person's memories are wiped and they come across something that whould have made them remember something, they simply say "I'm not allowed to remember that" and move on. This way, everything connected to Peter like his student records, the Happy-May connection and the necklace can still exist, but people can simply not remember why these things exist because they are 'not allowed to' by the spell.

[@LuisSierra42]

That makes a lot of sense

[@matroid4996]

Bump so more people see this. Im almost certain this is the explanation in my opinion

[@andrewleyton6689]

I think you are confusing it on the comics it was the original spell make everyone forget peter parker was spider-man so the rules make sure no one can think or discover peter is Spider-man unless he showed he was spider-man as it happened on spider island so the spell would be undone as soon as he said he was Peter Parker but maybe the rules are modify a bit in the MCU because remember it was the universe where it thought making Taskmaster the daughter of a random mind washing jerk was a good idea

[@Ncholasbloom]

@@andrewleyton6689 i think deep down mj knows she's gonna figure it out again

[@calixworhad871]

I find Electros talk being "in the grid" similar to the other villains. It's probably a different fight, later on, or their universe is different. Maybe he was attempting to become a super intelligent being, by fusing himself with some massive database, which led to his mind being over filled with info, causing him to lose himself and go insane. Thats why his "memory" ends there.

[@doctorno-face422]

He died in tasm2, he can’t be talking about any other incident

[@tasmsinist3rsix664]

@@doctorno-face422 He actually didn't so his theory makes sense.

[@Nami8302_OwO]

Your back must be broken with all that stretching -he was literally absorbing an entire power grid, it's not metaphorical -his memory ends there because he was literally in the process of dying Use common sense and pay attention

[@doctorno-face422]

@@tasmsinist3rsix664 but he did? Peter and Gwen overloaded him with electricity to the point where he exploded

[@JoeLoquacious]

@@doctorno-face422 GUYS, I found a HUGE LEAK FOR THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN 3!!! kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJOVn3modt6arsU…

[@chaoticglitched]

I think the memory wipe is the whole Gaster thing It's all deleted, but people still remember some things. Some tiny little fragments persist. Things like the necklace and MJ's deja vu for peter and the core and DT extractor for Gaster. But things like texts and videos just glitch out, photos and books still exist but peter's face is destroyed, and anyone who remembered him no longer remembers him. Sort of. After all, Sans and Papyrus, who literally spent their entire lives under gasters influence, figured it out. It's all been RESET. But the world still remembers the most important parts.

[@TheRyderShotgunn]

1:12 lol you even added the thing about ice skating uphill from blade

[@YiPeaches]

I felt that "curing" the villains was effectively more of just taking away a deadly weapon from someone who had a history of violent crime

[@aaronrachiele5521]

Yeah. It's not like Electro and Goblin were in a super-powered state at all times. Their powers are clearly discernable from their identities. They didn't have enough time with their powers to grow extremely accustomed to them, so there is no emotional loss. And the physical loss saves their lives in their universes. The only plausible argument against this is that they could have used their powers for something other than a weapon, like using them for science or for the good of society. But they didn't. They used their powers almost exclusively as lethal weapons. So it should be considered as such.

[@goat-brain1757]

Besides norman and sandman the other villains where either in an accident or turned themselves into monster on accident. I doubt doc ock and connor are gon a take this second chance and choose to remake there accidents

[@awanderer3047]

​@@goat-brain1757 well doc oc was controlled by his arms, so he could change his decisions after going back

[@benjaminbruno6812]

I've got a darker theory for you. Strange's spell affected the entire multiverse, meaning that everyone in every reality forgot who Peter Parker is. As sad as it was to see Tom lose his MJ imagine Toby going home and discovering that the love of his life for the last 20 years no longer remembers him....

[@thatBigfuu]

That would make a vengeful bully spiderman creating an dimensional portal to look for wizards

[@kaileido]

Oooo that hurts

[@Argornash]

What if that was the plot of Spiderverse 2? :O

[@landothatman2345]

@@Argornash Spiderverse too? Whole different universe

[@welestgw]

This is actually might be true if Tobey rumors of him coming back in multiverse of madness is true.

[@nathlack6170]

I always assumed that the spell never did anything physical. That (taking mysterios video as an example) nobody remembers that he outed Peter in it, and - importantly - if they watch it again they will instantly forget Peter the moment they learn about him. His social security number and credit score can be explained by these just being numbers in a computer system, and the people checking them so that Peter can get an apartment don't need memorys of him, they just need to know these numbers exist. Incidently this would make spiderman the only superhero with a completely bulletproof secret identity as the knowledge that he is spiderman could never be known so long as Dr strange's magic continues to protect it

[@my_every_art]

I think there is one more major problem with this movie. How curing and sending back "villains" to their universes, would affect their realities?? My point is, Dr. Strange failed the spell and bring the "villains" to his universe, that mean that they are from past. And if Peter #2, Goblin, Sandman and Doc Ock are from same universe, and the "villains" are ripped out of their universe, wouldn't that affect future Peter #2 that we see in movie?? Same with Peter #3, Lizard and Electro. I mean, Lizard is ripped out of the past, before being cured. If that would affect Peter #3, he wouldn't remeber that he already cured him once. My problem is, that how could they go to Peter #1 universe, when most of them are already dead?? Cuz both Peters are from present. That would mean, that the spell didn't only destroy the realities and Multiverse but time as well?? I just don't what to think about. Because I think, if they are somehow coming from past, that it would affect Peters. My theory is, that they are all from different universes. Seven universes. Each for one character. "Villain's" are not from past, but their universes. That mean that what is gonna happend and it's happening in their universes, is not affecting Peters. Peters know what happened in the past of their universes. And "villains" are just living it now. I think it make sence. For me. It's just a idea.. so if you disagree, I get it.

[@blackvoid5282]

That actually makes perfect sense.

[@whatby101]

Just for my own sake, I like to imagine that part of the spell is that people affected by the spell do not question how an event caused by Peter happened. The best example being the necklace, MJ would know the necklace is important to her and know roughly how she got it, but for some reason not question who gave it to her. I also hope they continue to reference past events in future Spider-Man appearances. It would be nice if Peter just knows certain characters better than he should and it confuses them, just as a joke or something.

[@osmosisjones4912]

Maybe the Spider man 2 we know is the one who was cured

[@tercial]

Yeah I hope we see Peter still have scenes with avenger members and it's a joke how he knows about certain things pertaining them and if he'll just keep his identity a secret since everyone knows spider man.

[@christenorio9555]

What if this happens to Mary Jane with new husband? kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqSZaoFsrsujl5I

[@justinarney3050]

While I may not like exactly how "No Way Home Ends" I do love how it sets Spiderman to not needing anyone else's help and him becoming his own hero without Iron man/avengers. Peter making his own Suit with a sewing machine fixed a small problem I always had with MCU Spiderman and Can't wait to see how he is developed from here on out.

[@hendkaram4020]

Wowww kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc…….

[@marcelcjr9313]

He never needed help before. And he also made his own suit before. So your comment is wrong

[@derplololol9717]

I've never had a problem with MCU spiderman cuz it was clear he's his own hero before he joined the avengers and he clearly made his own suit so idk why most people call him iron boy jr. When not using The resources and tech offered by Tony is stupid.

[@donatsuobrasco3593]

Yes, but now he doesn't even have a support network, which peter has always had in the form of may, his gf and his friends, but I guess we can move forward and have him meet new friends and love interests, although family is something he will no longer have, unless his parents come back like in the deleted scene in TASM 2

[@prestongregory9728]

Great movie!! Might I also add, the spell brought the villains who knew Peter Parker was Spiderman… So how did Eddie Brock and Venom get there? Is there a Spiderman in his world we haven’t seen or heard of?

[@jayshirley8274]

they have Easter eggs in the venom movies that hint at spiderman existing but there has never been confirmation that eddy knows spider man and also knows peter parker is spiderman. hopefully we will get an answer but i doubt it.

[@damienralph1602]

@@jayshirley8274 I may be wrong but I think all the venoms across the multiverse are linked. If one knows spiderman the rest do also. Venom in spiderman 3 would of known spiderman do that could be how.

[@Vixin24]

The symbiotes have a hive mind so what one knows, they all know, even across multiverses. So because the venom in Spiderman 3 knew, this Venom also was aware of the knowledge even without actually knowing Peter personally

[@alexrhinehart9604]

Peter not having any paper trail actually explains why he chose such a crummy place to live. Its the only place that would rent to him without any papers. After all peter being a super genius would have no trouble getting money for a nice place, so other than the "peter must suffer" vibe, it explains it perfectly.

[@salahudeenarunkumar4283]

I kinda thought while watching this, “Didn’t they say in Endgame that changing the past doesn’t change the future? How do the villains survive?” I knew I wasn’t the only one.

[@RaWasabi]

It doesn’t change the past, but it may create a variant, so the future of the villains can be altered

[@whatamidoing6400]

The timeline splits. There is still a timeline where they died but now there’s a split timeline where they survive

[@artist0154]

@@whatamidoing6400 also this is not Peter's past, but another dimension to him so it's fair pass

[@royliber3824]

The scene where Hulk tries to take back one of his stones, explaining why he has to take it kinda makes sense for this movie to be made into Marvel way of thinking. He said that changing the past won't change the future, but it can create alternate realities and split timelines. Doctor Strange said himself theres only 1 future where they beat Thanos. That means that the other futures can still happen, it doesn't mean they are deleted. And im sure in different universes Thanos wins for good. Like Matt says here... This movie kinda just about make sense if you dig enough into it.

[@evando6188]

variants

[@DarkFire454]

He wouldn't have "saved" the villains anyway, just caused another timeline where they survived... In Octavius' timeline Osborne was already dead so his "singularity point" already happened, Osborne's survival might have entirely changed Otto's future too through a ripple effect.

[@hendkaram4020]

Wowww kzbin.info/www/bejne/fIS2d5qNoamVgLc….

[@LucyWest370]

How would that work specifically I wonder? Because in that case, he didnt need to be cured at all.

[@GojiWars]

What if they were returned in present time to their universes? So they did die but returned where they last were in the MCU

[@junaydfisher211]

@@LucyWest370 each villain would go their own completely new universe branched off from the old movies, Doc Ock wouldn't exist in Norman's new reality, and Harry wouldn't be mad at him and turn evil. Sandman would basically be the same I guess.

[@alexisislas-gonzalez5991]

Lizard’s…. Is a tough one since he had four fingers which at the climax the lizard gets his hand (with five digits fingers) blown off by captain Stacy and then regenerated with only four fingers so he could before he stabs captain Stacy or after stabbing captain Stacy If it’s before well a new branch timeline But if it’s after, well the timeline stays the same since really his fate didn’t change since he was about be cured in the original timeline either way.

[@izzydhomy2345]

This is brilliant 👏👏👏

[@itsmesinn]

Regarding the fact that Happy knows May , I think that he knew her through the incident with spiderman that happened in his apartment and not actually being acquainted with her. Also shouldn't MJ and Ned still remember Strange? I mean sure they met him through Peter but still that doesn't mean their brain can't just exclude Peter out of the image and keep everything else the same as it was before the spell was cast plus the Spiderman action since they only forgot peter and not Spiderman. Another thing that has been bothering me is that if Strange's spell affected multiple universes , wouldn't the other Peters also be forgotten?

[@krisskrosssss]

This video just made me realize something. If we presume that Doc Ock goes back to the exact same point in time where he said he previously was, he probably might just end up sacrificing himself anyways to stop the fusion reactor. But this time Peter didn't need to give that beautiful speech to convince him to stop it.

[@andrewleyton6689]

he might planned something after returning doc ock was technically still hearing voices on spider-man 2 and his sacrifice was to correct what the arms have done, he could team up with spider-man instead and Peter could save him from dying on the water

[@krisskrosssss]

@@andrewleyton6689 Even if they did team up it was said by Doc himself that there was nothing they could do to stop it besides drown it. And even if that was Doc with "voices" in his head, don't you think the remaining voices would tell him not to drown it? There was nothing else they could do, so he'd just sacrifice himself no matter what. Strange was really right all along, it's their fate.

[@jackbauer5455]

@@krisskrosssss Not really they cured Otto Octavious, Norman Osborne,Max Dillon as well as Clint Marko it’s obvious by curing them it’s implied that when these villains go back to their universes they will survive either by going earlier in their timeline or their fate changes it would not make any sense having May Parker die for nothing her sacrifice is suppose to be necessary for their chance at redemption.

[@rjofusetsudzin8011]

@@krisskrosssss there is one tiny detail which might solve that issue. Octopus may have left Peter´s universe with stark´s arch reactor which is comparable to his machine since he called it power of the sun in palm of his hand. So he might have used that to stabilize his machine. I geniunly doubt that intention was for them to die anyway. Especially since they are all 90% coming back for multiversal Portals like line up.

[@krisskrosssss]

@@jackbauer5455 And “saving” them doesn’t necessarily mean they will extend their life, but more so as in saving them by taking away their demons and becoming “whole” again (quoted from Doc Ock himself) What I mean by this is that they get their redemption by doing the right thing. An example would be Doc sacrificing himself to stop the fusion reactor and him not “die a monster”. Basically, saving them doesn’t mean they live, it most likely just means in the end they will end their life as a good person.

[@kingofgamesandanime1683]

I feel like Peter could’ve solved his problems a lot easier and without magic. Happy has access to Stark Industries. He should be able to access all the records needed to prove that Quentin Beck was not an inter dimensional superhero, but a disgruntled former Stark employee and a grifter, the EDITH program should have some kind of digital record of its users and their commands, and since Flash was able to livestream the London attack, there should be ample footage of the attack that could prove that the drones came from inside Mysterio’s weather monster. The movie treats it like it’s Peter’s word against Mysterio’s, but there should be a mountain of evidence to prove that Mysterio is lying.

[@floatingf8783]

Somebody's gotta tell the HISHIE guys that before they make their No Way Home video, this is genuis.

[@calebheinis965]

Considering how the movie pretty much glosses over the legal side of things, it's quite probable that evidence like this was used to keep Peter out of jail. However as, Murdock (the lawyer) said, the court of public opinion is a different story. Just because that evidence was used to prove innocence in a court of law, doesn't mean that it can be as easily used to sway what people think of spider-man, especially people with foregone conclusions that do not see that stuff.

[@TY-df7fg]

Not really, the people saw “video evidence” of Peter organizing the attacks even though it’s photoshopped. Legally, Peter is in the clear because of all the evidence you’ve mentioned before. That’s why Daredevil was able to easily get all the charges dropped on him. But the people who actively dislike Spider-Man, or just like conspiracy theories will still find a way to hate him. They might not watch the evidence, or just believe that the evidence was fabricated in some government/Stark industry plot to cover it all up. Even without all the controversies. He still felt uncomfortable with all the even positive and neutral press, he even had trouble with this in Far From Home and that was when they didn’t know where he lived. He wasn’t ready for the exposure yet and had no time to prepare himself since the last movie. What I will say that could have easily solved all his problems though, is Strange informing him of what the spell will actually do beforehand, cause only telling him what the actual complete effects are mid cast was irresponsible. Imagine your Doctor telling you of the details of your surgery right as they’re about to cut your stomach open. Actually since Strange is a former brain surgeon let’s have him be cutting your skull open.

[@leotheking1000]

And the public surely would believe that, too As you can see right now with all evidence for climate change being ignored, while they just blindly yell "that's what fake news wants you to believe!!!1! wake upppppppp" He cannot have a normal life as long as his presence is known. Same for MJ & Ned.

[@arjundeokule_1151]

I think this is somewhat what happens in the movie. Peter definitely has some evidence and this is what helps matt Murdock to get the charges against him dropped . however the memory wipe is unrelated to Peter struggling to keep his legal troubles art bay as Peter says to strange "this isn't about me I mean its really hurting a lot of people" the memory spell was to fix the lives of people around Spiderman so they can't be associated with him anymore mj and ned coudnt get into MIT cause they knew Spiderman but if the spell worked then they wouldn't be associated with him anymore and could get their lives back on track

[@ItsTheLegendOfZelda]

I don’t know if you just forgot but Dr Strange said that some people slipped through the cracks which is most likely the actual explanation. It wasn’t any specific lore reason it was just very convenient luck

[@W1nds]

I personally think it actually explains why Doc Ock turns good, we don't see him leave in the original movie it's was just seemless and he returns to his original state before going thru the multiverse but his mind is still ok for a short time but he dies within second or minutes before he turns back to evil in order to save Tobey's Peter in order to have this happen all over again. Or just we didn't get the original spidermen and since it's a multiverse and he got ones with similar timelines but with small differences or also them getting pulled into Tom's universe was a branching of their respective timelines