Finding and Loading Quality Ammo: Gun Guys Ep.15 with Ken Hackathorn and Bill Wilson

In this episode, Bill and Ken talk about their favorite brands of ammo when it comes to reliability, for training, personal carry, and service. Discussion starts at 0:20
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[@paulsaucedo7357]

I could listen to these guys for hours. Love the opinions and honesty.

[@daspiper8941]

I also have been shooting Federal Ammo almost forever and I've been carrying their Hydra Shok Self Defense Ammo for 20+ years.

[@donkeyblue3094]

Speer Gold Dot for carry and Speer Lawman for practice. Great ammo and it keeps it consistent.

[@BubbaBlackmon]

Shot 1000's of rounds of Sellier and Bellot with no misfires. Blazer brass is also great practice ammo. And he's correct about the 147 grain Federal American Eagle. It's the only ammo that's ever choked my M and P shield.

[@michaelbattista1334]

Blazer was giving my 1911 Feeding problems.

[@alfredozamora5867]

These old heads know a little something about ammo..

[@markcurry3083]

Blazer, Fiocchi, Federal and Bellom are all at zero misfires for me

[@jrf5418]

Always a pleasure to hear these gentlemen, thank you.

[@rudyruiz9615]

I like to reload for 2 reasons, I get into a relax zen mode, and I can load a softer shooting round that still makes major. (or minor) OUTSTANDING chat fellas.

[@stevenmoore4471]

I always listen to people speaking from empirical knowledge,knowledge gained through experience

[@pappagetti]

You, sir just taught me a word.... A word that I'm going to run in the ground all day long.

[@walatsway7092]

Thank you both for covering the entire spectrum of choosing and testing carry ammo! Your both the leaders not only in word but honesty🇺🇸

[@thinman8621]

This is a good summary advanced reloader course. Thank you Mr. Wilson and Mr. Hackathorn.

[@nobodyimportant6614]

200 or 185 gr .45s.... Thank you , Ken. I been trying to tell people this for YEARS. You don't have to be macho and shoot 230 gr. just because you got a .45. 185 is actually the heavies bullets I run in my .45s. But we need to convince the stores to carry it. Ii was in Cabella's and a couple gun shops where I live and NONE of them had anything but 230 gr and most of that was ball.

[@oldjohn3284]

Prue truth, well stated. As a retired cop,(25 yrs) I kept up on ammo as much as possible on carry ammo. Every thing you guys said was my train of thought then. Well done,

[@mdd1963]

.45 ACP Major PF loads - 200 gr Precision BUllets' 200 gr RNFP , 1.19" OAL, using either 5.7 gr of 231 or 4.8 gr of TItegroup....; both clock at 840-845 fps in most 4-4.6" barreled pistols (the TItegroup-based loads use less powder, and, run five times times as clean!)

[@Cmoth040]

My department ordered several cases of the Aguila 147grn 9mm. Nothing but praise for it.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I'd switch to new non lead or reduced lead training rounds. ☣. In the 1990s, author & training cadre Massad Ayoob wrote about a 34yr old PD 👮🏻‍♂️ firearms instructor dying of lung cancer(he was a non smoker, no tobacco). The indoor ranges & constant exposure to lead training rounds(SWC reloads) caused his health problems. Be smart, use vented systems, non lead pistol rounds...

[@mikewhite8490]

Thanks so much for this wonderful teaching segment.

[@americandad8903]

Great conversation. I’ve been reloading for a long time and make superior ammo to manufacture’s. But USCCA says my carry ammo should be factory for legal defense reasons. I carry Speer Gold Dots. I followed their development and know science behind their process, they are one the most terminal rounds out there and my Local law enforcement carry them. I bulk bought surplus powder from GIBrass. Most of his powders have flash suppressants in them. So I’m able to load very mild reliable loads with little to no flash, literally for pennies on the dollar. Down side is the time it takes me to do it.

[@stupiditypissesmeoff330]

I think no matter what, if you shoot and kill someone in 2023, you’re going to be in some really deep shit, regardless if you loaded the ammo or not.

[@unbereafigendlic8414]

A good talk from respectable experts. Food for thought. 👍

[@mdd1963]

I chrono'd some PMC .38 Super /130 gr FMJ ammo that was 10-15 years old....; the velocity spread of 10 rounds was only about 15 fps.... Damned impressive!

[@MrFlint62]

I shoot exclusively reloaded ammo for practice rounds, and even for defense purposes. I have total control over over velocity and accuracy. I have reloaded for years, and have used many brands of powder, primers and bullets. I have found that in many cases, full power loads don't shoot as well as reduced loads. I'm not talking weak loads, but tuned in loads for my guns. As Mr. Hackathorn stated, I find in 45acp, that the 185 gr Gold Dot loaded to 95% full charge with BE-86 powder is very accurate, and has good penetration.

[@BulletSpoung]

I have a good tip. If you plan on testing any semi auto for the feeding of HP ammo and would like to test for feeding several times, just load every other round with ball. Shoot the ball round then rack the slide and save the HP. I started doing this back in the 80s and have found that it works good and saves me a bunch of money. I do it over and over reloading the HP rounds back into the mags until they start looking bad then shoot them up. With most handguns I can run them through about 15 - 25 times before they start to close the HP opening depending on the name brand, caliber and so on. With rifles it's much less, with SP ammo it's around 5 to 10 times and OTM it's around 4 to 6. If you do this make sure you keep an eye on each round before reloading them back into the mag, make sure that the bullet isn't being pushed back into the casing.

[@jamesallen253]

That was a lot of good information guys. Now if I can just find some of that “OPA”.

[@tylarhaugan7908]

I allmost never shoot brass. When this was filmed i bought 1k rounds of wolf 9mm for $115 for 1k rounds once a week for 30 weeks. Was well worth it. At the time i shot nothing but wolf and fiocchi. Fiocchi was a beautiful $8 a box. Carry ammo i use either barnes or speer gold dot. I noticed remington green and white box 115 hp does very wrll

[@chriscosby2459]

.40 S&W is alive and well.

[@Timber_LXG_5]

I love my federal ammo I only had one squib load with s&b luckily it was the last round in my mag and I looked at my ruger sr1911 and I had a bullet poking out the muzzle I took it apart and took a dowel and slammed it on the ground poking it out from chamber out to muzzle and slapped it back together and kept fireing lol. Never had an issue with s&b after that.

[@farmerdude3578]

I reload 357, 38, and 9mm. Cast my own bullets. Load them under 1000fps. Very accurate. I also like the steal case ammo. Although it’s not that good in revolvers. But 223 and 9mm it’s good stuff.

[@williamdey5865]

NYPD 124 grain Speer gold dot +p JHP 9mm it works!

[@thetexasrat]

I like that a lighter bullet does not kick as hard and we as hand-loaders can tune a cartridge to our own preferences. Yet, I still like the 250 grain 45 Colts.

[@juan501]

I've shot quite a bit of different ammo from all over... The Ruag I purchased recently was some of the dirtiest crap I've ever used, though I don't shoot steel cased. And I'll never use Freedom Munition ever again after 3 squib loads in one month when I've never had a squib load with anyone else.

[@prebaned]

Bill reminds me of a sleeper truck. Humble and looks average. But the amount of power, knowledge, and expertise once unleashed is unparalleled to anyone. He is the industry treasurer.

[@keyhole9601]

Really sorry for the reduced use of the. 40S&W. 165 gr loads are very interesting ammo, 180 gr perfect for suppressed guns with still a lot of energy. Also the 9x23 should be nice options for 1911 frames guns.

[@khaccanhle1930]

Well, it just makes the ammo more available in a pinch and the used guns alot cheaper. I love 40 and if it isn't the "tacticool" round, who cares?

[@luismartenetz2909]

40 is the best. More powerfull than 45, less weight in the belt and more rounds in the mag. If you reload, for range time, 40 can shoot like a 9. But 9 Will never have the power of a 40.

[@kellyBorgman]

Blazer brass 9mm is a great practice ammo. I buy in bulk mostly. The 135 grain FTX is my carry ammo. I do shoot a magazine worth of carry ammo periodically.

[@edzaslow]

Dated. Inexpensive ammo is an oxymoron in 2021.

[@bigghoss762]

I've shot a lot of cheap steel cased wolf and Tula and other than a bad batch of Tula .38 special and .357 mag it's been fine. I mostly shoot Winchester Forged in my 9mm's. My Glocks and Wilson Combat 92G Centurion Tactical like all the Critical Duty ammo but I need to run a lot more 135 +p through the CenTac before I actually start carrying it. The only reason I settled on Critical Duty ammo over anything else is aside fro it working in my guns I can get it at Sportsmans Warehouse. So if for whatever reason I need to grab a couple boxes I can duck in there really quick in a pinch. If not for that I'd probably get HST.

[@rodgerbooth1064]

I buy bulk 45 and 9 mainly for the Brass. Brass from Starline is more than or equal to quality brand name loaded ammo and you get to fire it once. No brainer.

[@elijahbrooks8589]

Sometimes I run cheap ammo for the reason of stoppages. I prefer a revolver but typically carry a wonder 9.

[@upnorth5465]

I loved Federal ammunition. But they pissed me off and lost a longer time customer when they switched to small pistol primers in .45. I since have been using Winchester.

[@Alpha-ro8sc]

Local place supplies Departments in the area & open to the public. Many used service tools available that have been traded for upgrades. Solid source of duty ammo as well. All staff is current or retired law inforcement. They turned me on to the G2.

[@RWong-wn3pv]

I love the concept of OPA.! (other peoples’ ammunition) I used to manage munition storage & maintenance area’s & supply ( .22 cal, .38/357 cal, 9 mm, 5.56 mm, 7.62 x51, 12 gauge, etc. etc.) military shooting ranges (qualification, etc.). The managed munitions storage area’s ranged from 55 acres to 205,000 acres.

[@patriot5.56]

Cant go wrong with Hornady for carry ammo.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

Critical Duty is very popular. I load my M&P 2.0 with a .357sig Critical Duty or on occasion use the .40S&W barrel, Speer Gold Dot 165gr JHP or Critical Duty 175gr.

[@iamanovercomer3253]

I heard both - going to the range use FMJ , it doesn't jam. Also heard use hollow point cause that's what you carry in your gun. What's your view?

[@josephbarker6875]

Use cheap to target shoot, but run at least a full magazine of hollow point or whatever quality ammo you plan to carry. This way you can be sure of reliability when you need. Some hollow points don't work well with some guns.

[@BubbaBlackmon]

Use FMJ's in the same bullet weight as your carry ammo for practice. But be sure to run at least 50 rounds of your carry ammo [ more if you can afford it] through your gun before trusting it.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I'd advise carrying factory made high quality FMJ in spare magazines. Feeding & cycle can be concerns with a duty or personal defense load. If traditional JHP or HST type rounds are not working, a +P+ or 9mmNATO may be needed.

[@cowboywoodard2569]

I'm a business owner and to the public, I use civil defense ammo because of concerns of over pentatration. I use it in my xd subcompact 9 and my 1911 45, they feed great, I pray that I do not need to use it

[@c.r.chandler5905]

Ken hit it right on the head as far as testing to ensure a round feeds through your gun. The agency that I retired from issued the 175 grain Critical Duty and we carried it in the Glock 22/23/35 family. It fed without any issues at all and did okay in real world uses. It did not perform as well as the SXT's we used to carry but I digress. Well when I retired my Glock 22 went in the safe and I started to carry a SIG P-229 in .40. I tested the critical duty in the 229 and I wouldn't feed for anything. The pistol just would not go into battery. I tried it in a P-320, same issue. A Beretta 96, same issue. If I wouldn't have tested the load, there could have been a big time issue.

[@tigerman3]

Love me some .38 Super and .45 acp!

[@oldgoat50]

I loaded both back in the day when buying components was cheaper than factory. Not any more. I could load 100 rounds of 38 super for about $12 with FMJ rounds and my own brass.

[@thegoodfooddude7395]

I carry Glock G19s for CCW and I have shot Federal Premium, Federal American Eagle, Speer, Hornady, Blazer, Remington White Box, Remington UMC, and pretty much anything I have fed one of my glocks it has ate through no problem sure there is the occasional issue like a stovepipe or something but generally its me not the ammo cause I get sloppy in my technique or my grip slips slightly so its a little limp wristed but havent ever seen an ammo issue where the ammo was just bad or misformed or something. for Self defense I run either Speer Gold dot 124 +p G2 or Hornady 124+p american gunner or Critical Duty again no hang ups no issues. Ball ammo generally whatever i can buy in bulk for reasonable but really in the current situation of 2020 its more like I buy what I can get my hands on and the big thing for me is having a reliable gun that can literally shoot anything almost makes the ammo issues a moot point as long as you dont use steel case ammo or +p+ in a glock they are really gonna shoot just about anything, but again just make sure your gun in your caliber shoots it before you trust your life to it. Even though I am confidant my glock will feed, chamber,fire, and eject just about anything I put in it, I still test anything I buy at least a reasonable sample size before I trust it to keep me alive on that worst day if/when I ever have to defend my life.

[@iamanovercomer3253]

Thanks I'm new @ this. Buying my first gun - Glock 48. I will check out Federal

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I'd look at the newer Federal purple bullet non lead training loads or the RNP line from Inceptor. ✔. Leaded rounds in 2019 are a hassle to clean & not good for the environment. 🌲...

[@turkeyhunter7617]

Great info as always 👍👍

[@johnjones3121]

Been shooting for about 4 years now and I've never bought anything other than Federal for range ammo never had one problem

[@iamanovercomer3253]

What do you use for carry ?

[@montanamountainmen6104]

I reload for several reasons. 1) is cost of some factory ammo or availability. 2) I can tailor a load to a certain firearm and get better results than some factory offer. 3) I cast bullets for plinking and reload them and its far cheaper than buying factory ammo. For example Winchester White Box 45 acp ball here is $40 a box of 50, yeah it shoots great but $80 for 100 rounds is a bit extreme to me that about 0.75 cents a round.

[@robertsauceda4757]

Where in the hell are you paying for 40 bucks a box for .45 ACP? I have found stores in Helena, Billings, and Bozeman with typical prices to a large store in Texas, did you mean to say .45 Colt?

[@jamescooper2618]

I have not had a problem with any Rem, Win, or Fed ammo. I also shoot a lot of the Estate target loads. Good stuff and affordable.

[@RoostedFilms]

My G31C 😢... good talk fellas

[@bowlofrice8]

I've always tried to convey to people that a 1911 needs decent ammo. It's like a Ferrari you're not gonna put store brand oil in your Ferrari you're gonna spring for the good stuff. You put store oil in your Corolla. I always like to spend a day shooting traditional black powder guns when I find myself flinching after a hiatus from shooting. If I blast off 100 shots from a cap and ball revolver I no longer flinch when shooting modern guns. Something about getting used to your face or hand catching on fire and getting peppered with powder and shards of the exploded cap makes modern ammo much easier to shoot. For me at least.

[@MrMrfed]

I would love a compact 357sig 1911

[@roykiefer7713]

Gentlemen: Thank you, this video was informative and very enjoyable.

[@josecarlospratesfilho7791]

What a master class

[@nataliepotter3635]

It was easy to set up and easy to maintain

[@Legacyflooringcompany]

I was watching this on my phone and the WC emblem was spinning around in a certain spot that made Ken look like he had it tattooed😂

[@cpt429]

9 mm +p+ Loads are anemic compared to 38 super it's a shame that 38 super did not become popular defense round

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

Nash Bridges 🚔 packed a .38Colt for 6 years ... 🎭🎬🎞📀📹...

[@sligrayne]

The 38 Super is probably the best round for the single stack 1911 platform, especially in a rimless configuration... either that or the 9x23mm.

[@stupiditypissesmeoff330]

And all that shits anemic compared to a hot loaded 357 sig. which is all but impossible to find, other than old ranger ammo, or underwood.

[@gregggibson3109]

Very interesting information, thanks for sharing your insights with us guys!

[@sleigh4019]

So Winchester loads bullets backwards and wolf is the problem .. That's tracking ..lol.. Work gold runs just fine and the cheap wolf is fine for banging steel

[@jMoik]

Bill Wilson said reloaders “should get a life.” Hackathorn agreed with him. Apparently, Hackathorn now has a life.

[@DavidLLambertmobile]

I'm 48, I'm a veteran & a licensed officer(armed security). I'd avoid current versions of Remington UMC, Golden Saber, Black Belt brand ammunition. 👎🏻. Big Greens QC since the mid 1990s has tumbled. 📉. As noted in the video, Winchester white box & Federal American Eagle are fine in 9x19mm. As is the Magtech or PMC bronze. I often shoot in indoor, public ranges so I use non lead, lead free style training brands. Inceptor Ammo RNP, Federal Syntech(red coated). Federal has a new lead free purple bullet 124/147 gr 9mm on US shelves, retail. It looks impressive.

[@oreosurprise606]

Speer Gold Dot 9mm 124g for carry defense ammo Winchester white box 9mm 115g practice ammo.

[@lamontgray6015]

124 grain my fav

[@jayblemsin4226]

These guys are american treasures

[@mattschmitt9924]

The only problem I have ever had with Federal American Eagle is with their .30 Carbine - my groups opened up to 4-5 inches @ 50 yards. Mil-spec Korean 80s vintage gets me down to about 2. Might just be that the gun doesn't like it.

[@theoneandonlybumpus2862]

1:30 aged well. 😂

[@coletrain4121]

Thank you good sirs 🙏🏼

[@nap152003]

Bills trigger squeeze on that intro though! Lol

[@BT1776]

Bill & Ken, as always, you guys put out great videos with a lot of info. Thanks

[@daveg4400]

Federal law enforcement HST 230 grain in my .45 for home defense and federal fmj for practice

[@carlreeves6108]

Love the video only thing fiocchi is American made ammo.

[@tommyj7087]

@14:35 You mention the American Eagle 147 flat point as your test for function on a new 9mm because it is loaded short. Given today's ammo shortage, can you give an OAL that is "too short" that one could reload to replicate that load? I will work up the powder charge, not asking for that, but given your extensive knowledge, this could provide a nice reference for the new gun I have on the way. (EDC X9) :-)

[@Platano_macho]

My Wilson combat loves tulammo!!!!!

[@sr25jd]

Do y’all Remember? ArnoldArms ?? He Built Custom Rifles Using Remington,LongAction I owned ☝️ it was a very accurate wildcat custom rifle .. case used was a 264 belted brass case it had to be trimmed necked down to accept 22 cal .. Fast Accurate Round today I found a pic I took what a custom job that was ...

[@bdstriggerman8760]

these days shoot what you can find

[@theabyss3386]

I prefer S&B and Fiocchi

[@MrNiceKnife]

Fiocchi is my go to unless I’m reloading. MEM is good 5.56.

[@whizwheel9436]

Any thoughts on polymer coated ammo use on the range vs. carry? Had numerous shooters at our local USPSA using this type of ammo, saying it's more accurate and better for the bore in terms of less metal fouling. I have enjoyed the frank discussions. Keep the videos coming.

[@davidcantwell2489]

Shame no one answered your comment. I too would have liked to have known more.

[@lokichoki_]

Remington/UMC has been horrible for me, I chronographed there 9mm ball it had the biggest SD I've ever seen enough so every round you can feel the difference

[@deesmith2237]

Wish you would talk about.38 Super sometime as it is one of the best loads out there.Probably a lot of people aren’t aware that it was the 1st “Hot” load made.Thanks

[@billterry967]

38 super is a fantastic round I wish more companies would make them. I've carried one for years and still do.

[@DonTruman]

I presume you want to match your practice ammo to your duty ammo for how it fires, right? As for picking high quality, how can a person know?

[@Gitfidlpickr]

brandnew Springfield 1911 a1 9mm and the company said "shoot ONLY Federal" but the gn jams an every Federal round. It wills soot Wolf 115 gr classic just fine. Crap? maybe (but I CAN ASSURE THE GUN IT JUST no good,) Maybe some Day t\it will be able to handle Federal but not right out of the box AND the gun companies want $500 More to make it into a working pistol.

[@Don.E.63]

Winchester super target with my 200 grain # 68 swc, in 45 auto

[@frankmericle7379]

What is the best load if reloading my own 38 special wadcutter only as I have a colt national match gold cup conversion and I still looking for magazines would like me Wilson to make a few mags for me as I would be willing to pay for them to be made

[@marcspyker3701]

Im at wolf and tula rn

[@cowboywoodard2569]

Very good video

[@tom-mx4ww]

And speaking of trying to save a little money, why are Wilson combat mags so expensive.?

[@jyc2201]

Because the BOOMERS can afford .45 AARP

[@jamescooper2618]

Because they are worth it. How much is YOUR life worth?

[@tc96z1]

Cheap ain’t good and good ain’t cheap. That’s why.

[@KyleRhoneforBellevueward3]

Because they are good. Only mag I run in my 1911s

[@brandonjohnson2493]

James Cooper not worth 3k

[@michaelhill3139]

Hornday

[@PPISAFETY]

Excellent video and series, guys. Question for Ken, what magazine do you like for carry in your 9mm 1911? I noticed the one you showed in the video appears to have a flat baseplate. Is it a 9 or a 10 rounder ans who makes it? Thanks!

[@joeshmoe12301230]

I can't tell you which one it is exactly, but I guarantee it's a Wilson Combat mag.

[@jamesfischer4813]

Let me drop an idea. 9mm to start .45 to start. 9mm Finishes at .86 HST great round. .45 finishes at .98 HST. Both penetrate the same.

[@oso9809]

+1 PMC is good ammo for me.

[@therond.patron4959]

Doesn't like light weight 9mm's huh. All respect Mr. Hackathon, Federal 115gr +P+ 9BPLE has great street results. The G2 sucks check out some of the test.

[@Alamo-cz5xc]

9BPLE is okay if you're good with under penetration.

[@Cant_Stop-Wont-Stop0329]

You talking about about G2 R.I.P. research ammo or Speer gold dot G2?

[@nickwashburn723]

man if they only knew what was coming in 2020, lol (they probably did know it was coming, sooner or later-- if you've been around for a while you know it comes and goes)

[@wallaceavin7490]

Does Sign Sauer produce quality ammo? Recently given a fair amount of training ammo

[@nomikes4392]

What a difference a year makes

[@jjd139]

A great video, as always. Very informative.

[@izuksammy]

I have problems with Winchester ammo Lately. Even center fire rifle ammo has been not going bang. I’ve emailed them and I never hear anything back.

[@oldgoat50]

Just a thought, might have your firing pin checked? Or is it leaving a dent and not firing? Might buy a bullet puller and check a few cases for powder.

[@joedean8017]

UNDERWOOD

[@jacksmith8002]

I've shot 10's of 1,000's of rounds of Federal American Eagle 9mm 124's and never had one issue, I pay anywhere from $175 to $200 per 1,000 with free shipping and no sales tax - right to my house

[@jaciel1964]

What website?

[@mdd1963]

$10/bos is pretty good nowadays.....; I miss the $7/box days for 9x19! :(

[@archangele1]

As for ammo, it depends on the gun and caliber. I reload most all my own ammo. Each gun is an individual. Each one has it's optimal load. I find that I have to work up to an accurate load for the particular gun through trial and error until I find the most accurate load. For pistols like a 9mm, it is just as cheap to buy quality factory ammo as it is to reload. But, for my Savage 110 FCP HS Precision .300 Win Mag, match ammo is very expensive and I can reload my own match grade ammo for less then half the cost of factory ammo. The difference? Cheap $20 a box hunting ammo will deliver 1.5" groups at 100 yards. My reloads with the 215 gr Berger VLD match bullets deliver .75" groups as do my lighter loads using Sierra's 190 gr HPBT match bullets. For me my favorite ammo is what I make myself.

[@archangele1]

Oops, I forgot to mention that match grade ammo for the .300 Win Mag runs around $56 a box of 20.

[@Bill-jv5eg]

No more steel cases any more,,,,good deal, it was not…stick with brass