flatwater speed testing my new HA foils (pt1)

you know, I really had high hopes for this session.
I've been meaning to test these new HA foils back-to-back.
I have this feeling that the speed on the new versions won't top the speeds on the V1's.
it was cold. but I was determined... it was game on.
besides, I didn't really have any other footage to edit so I needed some new content.
well, sometimes things just don't go as planned. what I expected didn't really happen. so this work is to be continued.
in other news... I'm now going to ride my wing leash attached to my belt and my board will be attached to my calf. this is a BIG change for me. whoa. I'm ok.
gear ridden and used:
75L Armstrong FG board
HA 680/780/880 foils
795 mast
140 Dart tail, red & blue shims
60 fuse
Kaohi wing and board leashes with padded belt
5:4 Mahulu Stormrider wetsuit
8mm SOLITE CUSTOM FIRE 2.0 BOOTIES
3mm Glacier Gloves (my hands were miserable, I should have used mitts)

[@christomo]

great film man loved all the testing the leash looked like noodles all over i would definitely be tangled up first few times . Im sure it will be good when you are used to it ,love the behind the back switch of the wing . I have done that on the wave quite a bit and feels good but i always end up in a noodle tangle . have the best week and good winds bro. ps i bought a hm mast ,ohh dear

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Chris! sup bud!! the leash situation is getting more natural, I rode it this weekend in some waves and there wasn't anything I missed about the my usual method. I can't wait to dial-in passing the wing behind my back. it doesn't seem hard but he gloves I was using this sesh were really sticky/grippy and that kept messing with me. dude! HM mast!! you are one step closer to downwinding, lol. but I haven't looked back, the HM carbon is here to stay and I love it. LMK what you think! or maybe I'll see it in one of the next videos :P hope all is well bud, I wish you an awesome week!!

[@naughtymonkeyman5645]

Great job as always Jman.. love your perseverance. I’ve recently noticed that when I change down rear wing size moving the whole foil back 1cm reduces the ‘pitchyness’ at higher speeds…🤷🏽‍♂️ may be random but hey it’s working for me… As for the waist leash for wing… I’ve got the Dakine belt which is so simple freeeeeedommm 🌊🏄🏽‍♀️ stay frosty

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks bud!! interesting about the size down/sliding back... I was thinking it was the other way but my mind hates going down that road. I remember the first few session or two with the 140 I was nose-downing so when I moved it all forward it seemed to fix everything. but these were high speeds so it's a little different. I still have lots to experiment on... but I'm gonna keep this in mind, so thank you! hope all is well bud, I wish you an amazing rest of your weekend!

[@eddiehawley7145]

G'day Jeremy, thank you for all your instructional and informative videos. Over the last few years they have been very helpful. Would like to make a recommendation on this video and a few of your other recent videos. The background music is at an audio level that makes it very difficult to hear your explanations. Recommend lowering the music audio when you are talking so we have hear you a little easier. Thanks again for the content and I hope Armstrong is seeing the incredible value you bring to this sport. Cheers Mate, froth on.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Sup bud! I really appreciate this feedback. I’m an audio guy at heart, so I take that stuff seriously and def wanna know if things are too loud. So thanks and def let me know anything like that going forward. And thanks, I would love it if Armstrong would send me some stuff! So if you know anyone over there put in a good word for me 😜👍 (Armstrong, if yr listening, I really need a new 70L and an XPS!) Thanks bud, I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@stew1142]

OK, a little feedback on speeds. I have an HA1325, MA1225 and still have a version 1 CF1600 which I still take out occasionally because I like the way it turns. I’ve done 18.8 knots (21.6 mph) on that old CF1600 with the 300 tail on small waves. I’ve done within 2 knots of that many times on the lake where I live. In my experience top speeds are more about control than horsepower or drag. I’m about 88kg (195lbs) Measurements taken with a Garmin Fenix watch.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sorry to leave ya hanging bud, busy weekend! I do think you have a point, there is a line that you can straddle with horsepower and stability. I've done speed testing with the 1325 on flatwater before, and I've gotten it over 21mph. I'm kinda tempted to see if I can beat that with the 140 dart. but when I was at 21mph... things felt very intense. volatile. I've gone faster on smaller foils and it didn't feel as tweaky. the 140 or 180 wouldn't necessarily make it more stable, it could make it worse I guess, but maybe you gain slight top end. but there's a feeling you get when you get to the top speed of a particular foil, and it's like you could prolly push it more but is it really worth pushing that limit? how much are you really gonna ride on the edge like that? it's really all about riding as fast as you can but still kinda comfortable, before you are crapping in your boardshorts. thanks for all this data bud, I love reading what other people and foils can do. I wish you an awesome week!

[@FluidFoil]

Super interesting to see all three in action dude, thank you for this! I'm on the 880 for prone at the moment but am hoping to add the 680 soon and will be heading to flat water so will be winging more. My goal is to be able to point as high as possible since I'll be sailing in a narrow passage. My question for you is have you tried any of the DW foils for winging? Armie says they are his fastest foil, so if speed is what you are looking for maybe a 685 or 755 is worth a try.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

thanks bud! pretty sure you'll love the 680 but I'm curious how that pumps doing 2 for 1's prone. I'm just not that good of a pumper yet, but once I'm at a certain speed on these it feels really natural to pump and even accelerate. I'm super curious about the dw foils. if I was good at dw, I'd have one by now. I didn't know Armie said they were his fastest, maybe now my interest is peaked a little more :P if I could test them I'd be so stoked. no one around here is good enough to have them for dw, so thus no one has ordered them and my wing dealer isn't gonna stock them when he has no idea how well they'll sell so we are just stuck over here wondering, waiting for people to inspire us. who knows... maybe I can get my hands on one. thanks for that inspiration and I wish you an awesome day!

[@hisurf4688]

sharing the stoke, thanks for taking the time with the testing to figure out a quiver.... you replied below about the 1180. I'm sorry if I missed it during your video, but with the smaller end covered... why the 1180 vs the 1080...? thank you for your thoughts.... I'm 90k and thinking 880 and 1080... or 1180... or 780 instead of 880.... ??

[@OCEANBOUND1]

this is a really hard question! I told my wing dealer to order me a 1080, but have recently changed it to an 1180. my thoughts are it's gonna replace the 1325. I think the 1080 will suffice for that. BUT there are other factors at work. I really want something easy, but maybe a little more nimble as the 1675. I bought that 1675 to do flatwater paddle ups, and I've still working on those but I prolly should have gotten the next size up for boards (I went with the 107L). I think once I get to a point, the 1180 should replace the 1675 and as soon as it does, the 1675 is out of the quiver. so that's kinda my intention... a foil smaller than the 1675, but should replace it, is a good pumper, and has decent speed. it's a gamble. I'm typically bad at gambling. so we will see what happens. for you at 90k, that combo should work fine. the 780 to me feels kinda like the 925. so if you had one of those and it worked well, consider a 780/1080 combo. but the 880 is still good for me, especially for foil SUP. the 880 feels like it can pumps and glide better, and that's a direction I'm looking to go this next year. more dw board and pumping, less jumping. that said, I rocked out on the 780 last session, and I was in love! I was about to sell that one... now I don't know. I need to ride the 680 more and see how much it covers. for me that 680 is damn close to the ma1000 as far as lift goes. I dunno if this helped or not! feel free to volley some other questions over.

[@aquaman1]

Excellent review. Agree with everything. Would be interesting to see you compare different aspect ratio foils of the same surface area, in the smaller sizes. Your turn experience at different speeds. The FUN factor. I'm not convinced this trend to HA foils carries into the smaller sizes. With smaller sizes I'm not interested in pumping and gliding to the next wave in a straight line. More concerned with speed, pitch stability and carving turns off fast moving swells; which would be a mid-aspect foil. What's a lower aspect foil that would be same area as your 880? Do you have one? Keep the videos with commentary coming. Greg from Canada

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sup bud! more coming as I ride them more. soon I wanna try the MA1000 back-to-back with the HA680. cause if they have the same lift (and I feel its close) then I'm pretty sure the 680 will be more fun in almost every other category. but yeah, I wanna figure out all that stuff and intend to continue exploration for a while. I do like the way they turn, but they turn different than the MAs. there is a possibility that I'll like these more. the new HAs have a great "up" pump, so if you use that to bounce from rail to rail, or if you crank a turn you can feel that lift helping you do a tighter turn. but it's different. you may prefer the new way, of you may not. you really need to demo one and see what you think. but I'll keep going and let you know what find. hope all is well in Canada, and I wish you an awesome weekend!!

[@pheelers1831]

I'm itching to get an HA. I have 1 Low (2200cm2) and 2 Med (1650/1350) aspect foils and it feels like I have been just as fast on the 2200 as I have the 1350ma, though way out of control on the 2200. Will test this out soon. My two larger foils have a large anhedral to them which must be doing sometime other then aiding roll.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sup bud! moving to HA's was def an upgrade when it happened to me... they aren't for everyone but I think many of us start to appreciate speed and glide more and as you get better you can push them to do things that you wouldn't originally do. I did miss mid aspects a little but in the end i seem to prefer the higher aspect stuff. LMK if you take the plunge! hope all is well up in Canada bud, I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@Stanton_High]

I avoided it BC everyone said it's harder, not for beginners, ECT, after making the switch I feel like all those reasons are exaggerated. Sure, it's different, but the higher stall speed is counteracted by the better glide and pumpability. I'll keep the monster foils around for light wind days, but go to is HA for sure.

[@mh3530]

Thanks for all the testing. Can‘t wait to get back on the water but we just got 1m of fresh powder snow How was the pumpability with the dart?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sup bud! the 140 pumps well for it's size! to me, I'll be grabbing it on decent groundswell days where I want some maneuverability and speed. once on a wave, it pumps great to stay on a wave but at a quicker cadence. the 180 def has a little more glide and I def think it's better for pumping all around. I'm stoked I have the dart in the quiver and it will be used a lot, but I may be on the 180 slightly more, it's my stock go-to stab. thanks bud I wish you an awesome weekend!

[@scottewers9507]

Wow, I like that hat

[@OCEANBOUND1]

woot woot! thanks bud, I wish you an awesome day!!

[@mayankketkar3450]

If you’re selling one, I’m actually looking for adding one HA to my quiver. I’ve been holding out to get better on my MAs. But hell I’ve heard the glide and want to reward myself for the foiling progress so far. Lemme know when you decide to sell please :) cheers mate

[@OCEANBOUND1]

hey bud, I prolly will be selling it in the next few weeks as long as I can get a session or two to make sure. I'm gonna try to ride it today. where are you located?

[@mayankketkar3450]

San Francisco. @@OCEANBOUND1 but I was going to be in Boston mid march visiting family. I know u foil somewhere near there

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@mayankketkar3450 I live right in South Boston, like 2 blocks from PBay. are you bringing your gear??

[@Stanton_High]

What did you think about the leash setup?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

I like it! I've fought the switch for 3 years... the calf thing is kinda annoying to me when I'm spending time on my knees, but I don't really do that anymore. I remember trying it when I started out and trying the different options and not liking it but I never really revisited. I really wanna do more jumps this year while the wing isn't powered and seeing all the 360s people are pulling on waves lately has inspired me to make the switch. I'm basically going all in from here on out.... at least that's the plan. thanks bud, I wish you an awesome rest of your weekend!

[@Stanton_High]

Sounds great. I gotta try it now. I'm about to start the 360/flakka journey

[@stephens.9748]

Hey Jeremy. quick question. What Armstrong Fuselage do you use/recommend for winging? TC60?

[@OCEANBOUND1]

Def 60. I think trying a 50 at some point is worth while. I spent a year using one a lot, it made me a better rider but I’m so much more of a solid rider on the 60. I recently tried the 70 and it was craaazy long, I wouldn’t recommend that as your first fuse. Go 60.

[@stephens.9748]

Excellant. I bit the bullet and went with the Armstrong kit. Wanted to make sure I got the right fuselage. Thanks J. @@OCEANBOUND1

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@stephens.9748 stoked for you! Which foil?

[@stephens.9748]

Thanks. Was going to upgrade Gong but rather keep the business in the US. going with the HA1525 to start and work down from there. 85mast and 235 flow tail is the kit. Do you use the 85 mast?@@OCEANBOUND1

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@stephens.9748 I use the 795. So about 5 shorter. The 1525 is a great light wind foil. It’s pretty wide so it can be slow to turn. Def consider something like the 1250 to complement it. How much do you weigh? Skill level?

[@TylerKaraszewski]

There are too many front wings and they're too hard too tell apart (and they're too expensive). I have an 1125 that I've recorded 36.8km/h (22.9mph) on. That's barely slower than your speeds on the smaller foils. I also have a 925 that I've barely even used. I'm sort of tempted to get a new front foil but I'm just not convinced it's going to be a very big difference. I don't really want to spend another $800 just to do the same things I can do already on the gear I already have.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

sup bud! sorry to leave you hangin. the thing about speed testing, it's not a science. it's def different on flat water than bombing down waves. the 880 I got above all of these on two previous wave sessions. and I'm still looking for the optimal setups as far as stabs go. I lent my 880 to a friend the other day and then tried that setup (220 stab, 70 fuse, red shim) and it def was a different experience! it felt overpowered. so from my experience, the older HAs seem a little faster. the new HAs are better gliders and pumpers. the v2's do ride a little smaller so turning feels a little better, but there is more low-end lift which is hard to bend your head around sometimes but its def true. if you are happy with the v1's then stick with them! I'm getting into pumping now with the dw stuff and these actually pump. I thought the old HAs pumped, but these are an upgrade and much easier. so that alone was worth me switching. the sport is a total money pit. but I love it. if you ever go v2, let me know!!

[@promosub4257]

Hi Jeremy! so 680 or 780? not easy to choose.

[@OCEANBOUND1]

One foil quiver it will you expand? Will it be your main foil? 780 is the easy answer for all-aroundness. 880 has more glide and feels similar in characteristics to the 1000, so the 780 will be a little better in some areas. but the 680 seems to have almost enough lift as the 1000. The thing is so small when you look at it so it’s crazy to get the lift that it has. I really hope to grab the 680 a lot for sessions I don’t need to pump a ton. And I’m trying hard to ignore the 580 but I’m so tempted to try it but the back of my mind wonders if I’d love that one too.

[@promosub4257]

980 is my main foil...and your test shows that the 680 also has a lot of lift.the difference between 680 and 780 seems small.your test arrived very early..even before I placed an order...thanks again for this effort in the cold. do you think that making a 980-680 quiver would be the right choice?... thanks again jeremy@@OCEANBOUND1

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@promosub4257 yeah def, if you have the 980 then I would def recommend the 680. I'm around 77kg/170lbs. I have all sorts of wind and conditions. if you were a lot heavier and only riding in light winds, then you could veer towards the 780 but otherwise I think the 680 would be fine. I think I'm personally going for a 680/880/1180 quiver.

[@promosub4257]

great...we have the same weight! and my foil for small conditions is the 1475 MA... which is great... because it flies by itself, you barely pump!

[@OCEANBOUND1]

@@promosub4257 I haven't tried the 1475 but I'm curious. I wasnt into the 1225 but obvi the 1425 is just a different animal. I'll get to it some day...