Follow up to Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE [Theory/Analysis]

An update to previous video:
Mastering Foreshadowing || DELTARUNE and UNDERTALE [Theory/Analysis]
[ • Mastering Foreshadowin... ]
Where I talk about some thing pointed out, some thing I wanted to talk about more of my full baptism into a delder run Theorist with a crackpot fugue state theory, and more!
Just some thoughts I wanted to say before I work on my Ralsei Analysis- one that I am currently titling "Let the man do his job"
Timecodes
0:00 - Into and behind the scenes
2:17 - The real reason I am making this video
3:09 - something about birds?
4:34 - Shout out to the seven Catti Fans
8:18 - 7/25/97
10:17 - :)
11:53 - I am once again talking about the Duck
14:16 - Further Thoughts
17:00 - Three Heroes Appear to Banish The Angels Heaven

[@GameJam230]

Every time I hear people bring up Ice-E, I remember that scene from Ratatouille: "Look at him over there... pretending to be an idiot! He's toying with my mind, like a dog with a squeaky uh..." "Toy?" "Yes! Playing dumb! Taunting me with that ice cube!" "Ice cube?" "Yes! He's consorting with it! Deliberately trying to make me think it's important!" "The ice cube." "Exactly." "Is the ice cube... 'important'?" "Of course not! He just wants me to *think* that it is! Oh, I see the theatricality of it; an ice cube appears in Undertale, now in Deltarune, and now he wants me to see it everywhere-- wooooooooo-- it's here, no it isn't, it's HERE! Am I seeing things, am I crazy, is there a phantom ice cube or is there not? But ohhhh no! I refuse to be sucked into his little game of... of--" "Should I be concerned about this? About you?"

[@Dudeman23rd]

I am cackling oh my god I wish someone would animate this

[@Lilit_1234]

God i love this comment

[@unrellated]

Funny. That's exactly how I feel about every single Gaster theory.

[@GameJam230]

@@unrellated To be fair, there IS some actual reasonable suspicion towards the involvement of Gaster in Deltarune. Sure, we don't know if the character that is connected between Undertale and Deltarune is actually NAMED Gaster with absolute certainty, and we don't actually know with 100% certainty that the "Mystery Man" sprite is supposed to depict said Gaster, but the correlations between the ideas of Gaster, Wingdings, the number 6, the Deltarune secret bosses and Goner maker at the start, etc. is all far more plausible information to talk about than Ice-E has. Imo, I think Ice-E serves as an in-universe parallel for what Gaster is to us, the player. He's a seemingly normal thing to outsiders who has a ridiculous amount of cryptid-style lore surrounding it, to the point that it has become a pop-culture icon with literal conspiracy theories centered on it. Even the Spamton Sweepstakes joked about that being exactly the case.

[@solalabell9674]

I imagined this to the scene in skinner’s voice and it’s perfect

[@GwainSagaFanChannel]

I am so glad we finally got a deltarune theorist that considers Ice-E the main villain instead of Gaster. Anyways this was another great theory/analysis looking forward to the next one.

[@minestar2247]

Ice e secret boss for chapter 5 let's gooo

[@howmanylanasarethere]

What are you talking about? I don’t remember him talking about Ice-E at all

[@Abraham_the_pierra]

Halfbreadchaos has a video on ice-E too

[@Dark139hunter]

Halfbreadchaos:

[@G-Cole-01]

yeah i don't really see gaster as the villain type from what we know so far, he's kinda just a very lax GM (gaster master.)

[@thefaz3744]

Isn't it funny how Ice-E is one of only 3 characters (4 if you count Gaster) that can be seen in the Light World, Dark World *and* Undertale? The other only ones are the Annoying Dog and the Everyman. Haha, what a funny coincidence that this weird ice cube is in a very specific category with 2 of the other most mysterious characters in the series and the personification of its creator! It sure does not mean Ice-E is of extra importance to the overarching series

[@i010001]

On other guns waiting to fire... I feel like a lot of people don't look at the actual mechanics of the game a lot. I noticed something interesting and it's like... I think that once the element system is introduced, Snowgrave Noelle will find herself absolutely walled at one point. I see a number of people wondering if the Weird Route is the way to break the inevitability of our ending, but I feel like that would be a strange choice if you do that and the outcome is good. If we look at the Weird Route narratively, you are not making these characters better or more capable - you are killing your friends and destroying their lives. Queen, who praises Noelle for being strong, says she is unfit for her goals after a Weird Route. Spamton warns you that you will be all alone. But how can all that power end with you in a worse position overall? The element system. See, Deltarune has Elemental Pairs - Sky/Thunder, Death/Scythe, etc. Two elements tied to one another, so resistance or vulnerability to one will also give you the same to the other. Thus, the Frayed Bowtie grants reduced damage versus Puppet enemies because of it's association with Spamton - but it ALSO grants resistance to Tasque Manager's attacks, because Puppet is tied to cat. Currently, only one is actually implemented in the game, and it's existence is a secret as the system as not been introduced: Puppet/Cat, otherwise known as Element 6. Kris can use the Mannequin to gain 40% resistance to this, which effects the Tasques, Tasque Manager, and Spamton. As mentioned, you can also use the Frayed Bowtie from Spamton to do the same. This can make his fight a lot easier. We will probably be introduced to this formally in the future. But how does this interact with snowgrave? Hidden in the game is an unused equip called the Mouse Token - which grants a resistance to an "Element 7." This is presumably Mouse/Something, given the name. This is very relevant because Noelle gains an ability I never see anyone speak about in a Normal Route which she doesn't get in a Snowgrave - Immunity to Mice. What does it mean to be immune to mice, when Mouse is an actual element? What does it mean to be Immune to Mice, when "Mouse" is also tied to some other element? The number 7 is occasionally tied to holy elements, luck, and heavens. It could also be tied to sin. It is tied to the number of chapters Deltarune has. Or the number itself could mean nothing. But the number 7 is worth noting, in and of itself. Whatever the case, suppose a situation: Noelle faces a boss immune to cold, who uses Mouse Attacks. Say, a Nutcracker Rat King. Snowgrave Noelle would be walled entirely, and fail - you have taught her not to think, just use her best attack until the enemy is dead. You have not taught her about the game's mechanics - remember, to do a Snowgrave you have to kill the first tutorial enemy and she doesn't learn about Acts or Mercy. You have had her rely on a single element exclusively. You even see her come up against this problem in-game when she's playing Dragon Blazers with Rudy - in a Weird Route, she will suggest using Iceshock on the Ice Boss without considering elemental resistance at all. If Rudy wasn't there, she would have made a very poor choice. And well, next time she's in a dark world? I kinda doubt Rudy will be there at all. Is this foreshadowing? And what about more involved aspects of the element system. In a normal route, Noelle finds that the Ice Drake reflects Fire damage. Can our elements be reflected back at us in this game, like in Dragon Blazers? And if so, what happens if a fatal attack is reflected back at you? One more thing - It's possible to abort the Snowgrave at the last possible moment and end up with a Noelle with the highest possible stats, but neither Snowgrave nor Mouse Immunity. Which is perhaps an even more interesting edge case. Anyways. That's my theory/observation/thing.

[@melodyMonger413]

holy crap i never considered that the using ice on an ice boss could be foreshadowing! thats so interesting !!!! im very glad you pointed that out

[@i010001]

​@@melodyMonger413 Eyy! I'm glad someone is entertained by my deltarune brainworms, haha

[@silverstar4505]

Great shout! Very good idea to chew over

[@vultureonacid1482]

Maybe our choices with the vessel creation also has to do with this? Like favorite color and flavor?

[@Grahamalama09]

wait, a boss that is immune to cold, and uses mouse attacks... ICE-E! the cold part is obvious, but hear me out, ice-e "works" in a pizza restaurant.

[@Sylvergunner]

something that kinda interests me is that susie's description in the prophecy is easily the most vague, just a monster. there arent any other humans in hometown and "a prince from the dark" is extremely specific. so any other hometown monster could technically fulfill that role in the prophecy instead of susie

[@nixel1324]

Technically speaking, I'm pretty sure Noelle classifies as a monster. And so does Ice-E.

[@MultiMetronom]

Lancer also qualifies as a prince of the dark.

[@Derpinator01]

To paraphrase the Nostalgia Critic, the entire game is made of Chekhov's Guns, and the safety's off on half of them.

[@i010001]

There's an extremely rare piece of dialogue you can get if you have Noelle act on a Tasque. In normal gameplay, you have to do this by starting up a Weird Route and then aborting it by using Noelle to spare this tasque. Noelle likens petting the Tasque to petting Catti, which is interesting. Either Catti is someone you can just go over and pet, or those two are very close. Given that Noelle is attracted to scary things, is incredibly gay, and Catti is oddly protective of her, I think it's possible that she dislikes Susie because Catti and Noelle were in a relationship at some point in the past. (I doubt they are now, since like, she seems pretty into Jockington. But yeah) It's not even necessarily jealousy or relationship drama, it could be like "Hey I know you have a type, but this girl seems legitimately dangerous. She's going around threatening to eat people's faces."

[@edlerlucasbarcellosdasilva3622]

now thats something for sure

[@gabrote42]

I was completely unaware!!!

[@Silicon14YT]

There is also the "purple guy" ice-e guy. They initially appears to be one of the Ice-e employees in ch1, but Pizzapants notes he is not even sure they work there, and shows up in city hall of all places, now wearing a suit, also confusing the people there. They are out-of-place not only from our perspective, but from an in-universe perspective as well. Unrelated to the above, but, there is the fact that the warp doors are weird as well. For the obvious one is the fact they resemble Sans's door, right down to the flames on the bottom. Second, they are one of the constant so far in both Dark Worlds. Lastly, and less known about, is that Jigsaw Joe and Mr. Elegance comment that, despite having working on making them functional, note that they don't really understand how they work exactly and how they are puzzled (no pun intended) over what they are. Mind you, it's implied that a lot of the video game/rpg aspects of the dark worlds are indeed diegetic (ie Noelle being confused about going into battle, having it explained to her, and comments how it's similar to the in-universe game Dragon Blazers). So for the simple fast travel system to be lampshaded as inherently weird in a world where a bunch of other game mechanics are seen as natural seems to suggest something more is going on with them.

[@professoryeetus8955]

its beeen so looong

[@Dudeman23rd]

Markiplier when an Ice-E's P"e"zza employee turns out to secretly be evil:

[@vrad_exe]

I always come back

[@meromora387]

I dunno if you noticed, but it seems interesting that you can choose your goner favorite food to be "cold"... At first it just seems like a silly joke but now, I wonder what would happen in a Snowgrave route...

[@wanderfilho5443]

i really believe that the interaction with the Popups are gonna be really important for the way these characters are gonna develop.

[@theknightwithabadpictotall7639]

Would be extremely funny if the Thrash Machine came to our assistance against the Vessel

[@str4nger-d4nger]

WHO WOULD WIN a blade knight forged out of darkness by an otherwordly entity whose favourite food is pain, and actively warns us about the possibility of pain and seizure after being made. or a duck

[@AnimatingBeats]

@@str4nger-d4nger Simple. A duck.

[@thefaz3744]

At the end of Chapter 2, Ralsei explains that if too many dark fountains are opened then the Roaring would happen and Titans would take form from the fountains. Which is a pretty obvious Chekhov's, but I'm gonna ask: Do we have a candidate for a character that might be a titan? Titans are not lightners nor darkners, which already rules out most of the game's characters. Some candidate could be Gaster, the player(s)... and our good ol' friend Ice-E, who, so far, has been seen to be none of these things. There are some BIZZARE things to Ice-E that weren't pointed in the video. Ice-E is one of the few characters that exist in the Dark World, the Light World and Undertale. And, for some god forsaken reason, Ice-E was given a Tarot Card in the fangamer tarot cards and as Arcana 0, the Fool. You'd think the character that, at the time, was only present in a word search would be The Hermit or some tarot related to knowledge but no, he's in literally the most important tarot card, the one related to new beginings, journey, lack of caution/wisdom and etc. So not only is it subtly everywhere in these games like Gaster and in a priviliged position in the tarot deck but he's ALSO depicted in exceedingly demonic fashions - a winking pizza box, Kris claiming he eats kids, the criptid claims, the FUN event that makes "Nightmare" appear next to it. And remember - it's claimed that "The TITANS will take form from the FOUNTAINS". Which means the Titans will look like the place that the fountain was in, meaning if one of the fountains is in the pizza place then a giant Ice-E titan is a VERY real possibility. There is a really weird connection between Ice-E, demonic sightings and etc. I would not be surprised if in the later chapters when the Roaring happens that a Ice-E titan appears and we'd have to fight it.

[@Amphorde]

I don't think the Titans are already existing characters, since their roles are very different to most of those we know. Usually we attribute characters to some other unknown characters causing something because there is a limited cast and characters can't always spawn out of nowhere and may not have the things that would justify their capacity in causing something but due to the Titans' more divine position and them needing to form, they probably are unique. Although it still is possible those Titans have connections or relations with some other characters as you noted, that Titan in the middle did look kinda like Seam didn't it?

[@JustJDude]

I keep trying to tell everyone that the goner vessel is gonna end up being the knight. I refuse to believe otherwise

[@FrozenFennekin]

I don’t know wether that would align very well or very terribly with my “the player is the angel” theory but either way both possibilities fill me with indescribable dread! I love it

[@sira1929]

Something I'd like to point out is the secret boss items. In chapter 1 Susie gets a weapon that almost immediately in Chapter 2 is obsolete however increases her magical potential and in Chapter 2 Ralsei gets a weapon that increases his attack. I feel like this is going to be an ongoing trend.

[@magetsalive5162]

Imagine, if you will: "It's just a piece of a song, merely a fragment..." *one note of Megalovania plays*

[@prosto_a_user]

I mean, we do have Sans's "eh" in Ch2

[@grayveebean]

Chuck'E Freezes? ISSAC ENTERTAINMENT??? you just don't miss, do you?!?

[@dantes_integrity]

That's Mister Iccec Entertainment to you.

[@Rustylorde]

the most important question: is forging a new path even the right thing to do?

[@dantes_integrity]

That depends, do you want to see more of the game? At what cost?

[@infizer0]

The way the Weird Route seems to prey upon players' NEED for choice, especially after Undertale, is so fascinating to me. We're given a world that tells us our choices don't matter and what do we do? We break it until we do, regardless of consequences. (Very much in line with Undertale's questions about if you need to see everything to be fulfilled and how far you're willing to go to do so, culminating in the end of the Geno route.)

[@thejester4130]

Stuff like this always makes me think of the "probably gaster" tweet which says "I LOOK FOWARD TO CREATING A NEW FUTURE WITH YOU."

[@GoldenAdrien]

14:23 To add fuel to the flame, the game actually saves your choices in the goner maker to your save file

[@danielle5160]

One thing that I probably put too much stock in becoming important is Purple Guy. Yeah, in Chapter 1 Pizzapants mentions "Purple Guy" when talking about his coworkers, and questions whether he actually works at Ice-E's. Obviously this is just a fun little reference to Five Nights At Freddy's, but this character is actually an NPC you can interact with in both chapter 1 and chapter 2. In both chapters, there is a person in an Ice-E mascot costume that just says something inane in all caps. In Chapter 1, they're outside of Ice-E's along with the other workers like you'd expect, and in Chapter 2 they're in the Town Hall. Should I believe that this character will be important? Probably not. But I can't help but note that anyone could be in that costume, and wonder if it could be someone important to the story...

[@carrotsshirley5792]

wait omg my brain. susie learned healing magic from ralsei in chapter 2, right? but toby also said he was going to have a chapter 1 character know fire magic. well, toriel is definitely going to be in chapter 3, and toriel is a known wielder of fire magic. so what if ralsei is inspired by toriel to learn fire magic?

[@str4nger-d4nger]

that implies toriel and ralsei will interact a lot in ch3... which I don't doubt. I just don't think Ralsei would want to show her his ch2 form. Maybe that's how we'll unlock the appearence switch option for ralsei that everybody wanted. He puts his hat back on to disguise for Toriel, and, in turn, we get the option to put it on and off in later chapters. maybe. ik I personally hope so. ive grown used to ch2 ralsei by now, but you gotta admit he looks like a teachers pet. which maybe fits his character well. would we (player, not kris) be considered the teacher? If so, he does seem like he's trying incredibly hard to appease to us. Teacher's pet Ralsei canon.

[@turmalin5072]

Here's another thing that I think not enough people are talking about. Papyrus. Like, what is his deal? Why haven't we seen him yet? Out of all the major characters from Undertale he's the only one that has yet to appear. (There's also Mettaton, but we hear from him, and he has an explanation), which I find weird because if the bone brothers are new to the town, why would the friendliest and most outgoing skeleton we know just lock himself in the house instead of meeting new people? And it's not like he's completely unimportant and forgotten. There is a specific emphasis on the fact that he isn't here. Toby wrote on the Deltarune Steam page that Papyrus is busy, Sans mentions him at least twice, we can ask about him, Sans says that we will probably meet him in the future, and we can hear a faint bonetrousle when we knock on the door of their house. Also, why Papyrus specifically? If anything, you would think that Toby wouldn't show Sans right away. You know, the guy who has far more connections to Deltarune, science, Gaster and the whole meta of both games. Heck, if he didn't show anyone else and said they were busy, that wouldn't probably be as strange. Just something to consider.

[@Ongle_Spongle]

13:15 🫵😮!!! That’s me!!

[@zalandercalander]

Ayo

[@CyborusYT]

I am so glad you reused the artillery cannon joke from your reply to me. It deserved a bigger audience. Wait. Artillery cannon. Artillery CANON. big brain

[@Barakon]

6:28 CATTI IS BEING CATTY IN A LOVE TRIANGLE! JK they don’t know how Susie Redeemed herself.

[@whentheskittlesfightback]

i hate ice-e but IT KEEPS HAPPENEING

[@dantes_integrity]

*Me walking down the stairs, but the Steps are Ice-E's*

[@vrad_exe]

What if Ice-E was actually Mari all along

[@PhysicsGamer]

Catti's backstory with Kris is also very interesting in that as far as we've seen... there is no magic in the Light World. Like, at all. None from the monsters, nor even any indication that they know about magic. Yet somehow, Kris has a floating red heart stuck inside them, there are worlds of darkness hidden in abandoned classrooms, and Noelle angrily tells us she'll show us "what happens when I cast a spell I don't know" immediately after shiftily and unconvincingly claiming she doesn't know what "snowgrave" is. We know that Noelle and Kris used to be pretty close. We know that Catti and Kris studied "the occult" together. We know that Noelle's previous experience with magic involved, at a minimum, a spell called "snowgrave" which she "didn't know" at the time and which went badly. I'm sure we'll learn more about the order these events happened in later. But... I've got at least a working theory, at the moment. Noelle, Kris, and possibly Catti were "studying the occult" together, or perhaps just Kris and Catti with the former passing along information to Noelle. Noelle somehow and for some reason cast a spell, "snowgrave", despite not knowing what it actually did. This may well have been what led to Dess being "lost", and the whole experience was so traumatic for Noelle that she completely repressed the memory. Either way, the loss of Dess started a major downwards spiral for several characters, especially the Dreemurs and Holidays. Kris, for some reason, delved back into the occult long after their studies with Catti had ended and managed to cast another spell - which summoned the red heart that we control. There's a lot of information we don't have, of course. But some of those dark spots can be informative - for instance, Kris clearly knows how to interact with the red heart and force it to do certain things (pulling it out of their chest, restraining it, hiding conversations from it, etc.). But we don't actually see them obtain this information. It's likely that they obtained it before the game even started, which raises the question: what else do they know that we don't know they know?

[@Barakon]

1:18 THANK YOU FOR THE ALTERNATIVE TO AUDACITY HOLY SHIT!

[@SoundtrackDetector]

Thoughts: if jockington and catti are a pair, will they come to a dark world with us? Also burgerpants.... he *technically didnt have a overworld talk sprite in undertale. Additionally, Icey. You telling me this DOESNT have anything to do with noelle? Personaly i think we are basically destined to have a crash collision conflict with her. There is an insane amount of foreshadowing to allude to noelle becoming an enemy or opposing us. The only way to avoid it i think is through snowgrave/weird route. In snowgrave, noelle becomes more subservant (less likely to rebel) and much stronger, able and willing to end conflict by force, and possibly more able to resist forces that could take control of her. Finally, she becomes stronger. Including her healing magic. If this is the case, maybe she can save Rudy. If anything would set noelle on a path to destruction, it would be loosing the only supportive adult in her life.

[@str4nger-d4nger]

why is this giving me a bit of flashbacks to OMORI? let's see. shy/timid and highly traumatized character with only one active support from an adult, that is on their likely deathbed. The only other adult in their lives is not really close to them in an emotional level. The character is highly prone to codependency and would resort to actual murder if the circumstances press them into a panicked state. Normally, they're extremely kind and genuine torwards everybody around them, but some traumatic incident from the past made them into the mess they are today. also, their childhood best friend is a silent protagonist who carries around a knife and plays an instrument, who consistantly visits another "world" made out of their surroundings and imagination. ...y'see where i'm going with this, right? what happened when Basil lost his grandmother? He fell down a rabbit hole of panic, and, in his most extreme, ended up severely harming his childhood best friend with the intent of "helping" them. maybe i'm connecting lines that don't exist. probably. but man, can you blame me? both games are ingrained into my brain by now, and the coincidences are definitely there. let's just hope Dess' dissappearence was a bit of a light(n)er situation.

[@SoundtrackDetector]

​@@str4nger-d4nger haven't played omori, but Toby said that it had a lot in common with deltarune before it came out. I've drawn some parallels with mother 3 that may be insightful

[@benjaminmead9036]

someone pointed out you can have a max buffed noelle by aborting snowgrave at the last moment but be on the normal path. cant help but wonder if thats the actual key, and snowgrave noelle fights back against us for making her do that, while standard noelle cant save rudy, getting her possessed by ice -e or something.

[@SoundtrackDetector]

​@@benjaminmead9036 that would be a crazy fakeout, it would be a cool interaction

[@manslaughter3180]

Noelle is written as a character (and person) who is very interested in finding secrets and she does that by breaking the games she plays, only for us (the player) to use Kris as a puppet by controlling her as an NPC to break the game that they are a part of. Interesting. Also, you know what else I noticed recently? Forgetting. The main theme is "don't forget" but a lot of characters are actually forgetting. Onion cannot remember no matter how hard he tries: I've heard that song before...coming from the sea. The whole thing. (...) But... I can't remember...I can't...Can't remember. the writer of the mysterious Valentine's letter, who is likely the Man behind the tree, cannot remember who he was supposed to help: Yes, there was someone I wanted to help. I seem to have forgotten who... Yes, it's quite ironic, but I seem to have forgotten. Was it myself? No... well, perhaps. Noelle cannot remember the name of her egg pet: The egg actually had a name but I don't remember what it was. It's been driving me crazy ever since. Kris also appears to remember something randomly and then express it through sound (piano): We'd play, and we'd play... then after a while, they would suddenly get very still, like they were remembering something. What does any of this even entail!!!

[@south452]

A quick note: the origin for the gonermaker background image was found! It’s a picture of the ocean. I. Come on man. You’re kidding me. This isn’t a gun, this is a *firing squad.* anyways, this is ??? already such a good channel and you have two whole videos. mostly commented this for the algorithm,, since. only 1.5k is criminal despite how little time it’s been time to go ponder the ocean eternally

[@sentineluno]

dude you're on FIRE WITH THSE THEORIES i never saw the connection between the killing machine and the vessel

[@infizer0]

When it comes to the old song from the sea, I highly recommend Vivat Veritas' video all about it. It's very very interesting! (Also great vid!)

[@sambish3961]

Great analysis, but you do very much fight the thrash machine in chp2 with Roulx. You fight it AND pilot it in the same chapter. But frankly, the fact that it comes back TWICE points strongly to the goner being important and staying important

[@nautil_us]

Catti calling Susie darker does not necessarily imply her going evil/bad guy. It could also refer to the fact that Susie is getting more and more invested in the dark worlds, and might (does) prefer existing there above existing in the real world. If pushed far enough, if the real world becomes worse or if someone lies/understates the consequences of the roaring, she might become on board with trying to get her darker friends to the real world. By any means necessary (this isn't a Susie is the knight theory But I so think she might open a fountain some day). Susie is the one that told Noelle that the cyber world was just a dream, so Noelle isn't as deep in the darkness as Susie is (at this point at least). So I think it's more likely that Catti is referring to this, instead of Susie turning evil, even though this begs the question of How and In How Much Detail does Catti know about dark worlds.

[@unshapedcolt]

new dantes integrity vid just dropped lets go

[@solinvictus6562]

2 videos, 2 bangers! Keep it up!

[@dantes_integrity]

You got it Boss o7

[@astuffedalpaca5365]

CATTI MENTIONED!! great video and looking forward to the ralsei analysis!

[@amogamogus9595]

MY GOD ULTRAKILL MUSIC! WAR WITHOUT REASON! TEN MINUTES IN! YOU'RE OFFICIALLY one of my favorite deltatubers now.

[@dawnkryxel]

With the alternate bosses there is a checkovs gun theme. "Putting things together" or "rebuilding" The key to jevils cell. The hard drive for the spamton neo. You literally have to "fix" something that has been intentionally broken with a convoluted path. Now, what thing can you think of that has been broken and we could fix/fight. The man who speaks in hands. The convoluted path starts with a broken song. A song that is not new. Gaster won't be the big bad, but more likely a second alternate boss in the final chapter.

[@rodrigoalejandro6301]

Adding to the collective tinfoil hat moment, I've been wondering... How would Ralsei react when he finds out what the player has been doing in the wierd route? We can assume that he is going to be one of the least excited with the idea, of course. But we can't know exactly the magnitude of the measures he will take.

[@irishuisman1450]

Something mildly hilarious that happened while I was watching the video: I have Shimeji's on my laptop, and one of them was just sitting down with a neutral expression. In the middle of your Ice-E rant, she went from neutral to unamused xD

[@veppotoast3507]

I'm so glad I found this channel. Even it's your 100% wrong, this is the most fun I've had speculating

[@ChanceDrive]

Noelle is the angels heaven. No matter the route I swear she will be important to banishing the angles heaven, maybe we will need to banishing the angle we created or have to banish the player who created her

[@AllistorRichards]

Interestingly I have a bullet that I think everybody missed that the end of this video got me realizing. Why are there multiple save files? With the story Deltarune gives us you'd think that only one save file would truly be needed similar to Undertale, yet, there are multiple save files. This itself could mean multiple timelines, and, in a game with a character infamous for "breaking games," playing a major role. . .what if we need to play through *both* timelines to get the best ending and "banish the angel's heaven."

[@q.s.w.9074]

This game is filled with more bullets than Clover's shotgun

[@GodChaos333]

I really like your sense of humor and silly unhinged Ice E section. Great editing and music choices. You have real potential. Subbed for sure. Looking forward to more.

[@farazhasan7811]

Dang. After your theory/conspiracy of ICE-Es, its possible to have some merit. I mean, he's made of ice and snow, and Noelle's element is Oce as well. The Snowgrave Route is officially called the Weird Route, where you corrupt Noelle into killing Darkners. What does ICE-E do but corrupt parts of the game, causing it to glitch or have stuff out of place. It is practically spelt out that ICEE has major importance in the Weird Route.

[@marseafish]

10:35 WHAT THE FUCK ULTRAKILL?????? WAR WITHOUT REASON FROM ULTRAKILL THE FUCK??? ULTRAKILL WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE?????

[@dantes_integrity]

Cinematography is the art of how a movie is put together, and how the message of said movie is brought forth. Using that is captures in video, how it is edited, and what music is played when it is shown to bring the desired outcome. I used the song War Without Reason when talking about Ice-E's, this is a clever allusion to the fact that there is No Reason to talk about Ice-E.

[@NanaNanaBananaCrown]

Ok… Can I talk about the Weird route idea real quick? There is a central theme with that route and the secret bosses we have seen… freedom… freedom from others control. The desperation for freedom… the fight for freedom… Kris, who is a knight, fighting against Jesters and Puppets, rebelling against kings and queens and us, the player… freedom is in every character in this game in some way. Ralsei Gives up their freedom since they believe they don’t deserve that freedom as a darkner, Susie fights and is the most free character cause she is always herself and is free to be herself, but is all alone because of it, and the moment she lets go of control for a little, just a bit to lighten the load on her shoulders, by letting Kris give orders in battle… she is happy… Lancer wants to be free and happy with his friends but feels the pressure and control of his father. Noelle is controlled by everyone for her smarts and her talents, by her mom, by Berdly, by Kris, by the Player… Asriel is free from his parents out for college, while Toriel seems happy to live a small town life in Hometown but I have a feeling we will see her insercurities and pain from her devorce from Asgore, and the stress of being a single mother… Berdly is controlled by his fear of being seems as less than everyone else, and his need to be greater than everyone… everyone shows different struggles and arcs of control… and each show the duality of control… like this game has a duality… nothing is straight and narrow… everything has a dark and light side to it all… freedom has a dark side. What does this have to do with the weird route? EVERYTHING! What is the definition of being weird? Being free to be you, to do things differently, no matter how people judge… the weird route in chapter 2 was negative… but that’s only one side. My theory? There will be a weird route that is a BETTER ending. There will be a character we CAN NOT SAVE, unless we do the most elaborate, difficult to pull of route, that in the end will save a character. I don’t know who, maybe a Asriel since that’s a way to make up for him not being saved in Undertale? Either way, I hope, and think, that we will see both sides, good and bad, to these “weird” routes… and maybe we will show Kris that… there is freedom somewhere… that we can make even the smallest choice… that even when they are on the strings, or when they are no longer on those strings, they will have a choice, and be able to fight and be weird, no matter how much it hurts them… that they can have a choice one day… But that’s just me and me being me I’m probably stabbing myself in the foot with a poison dart of being hopeful… anyway how was your day?

[@roseboil7713]

alternatively: the song coming from the sea might be penumbra phantasm. it's foreshadowed in 'THE HOLY' as a small motif, and due to the response on tobys Tumblr about penumbra phantasm yeilded a similar response to toby's first tweet. and, another reason being how onion said that you can only hear snippits of it, like how the full song never released during hometuck. also toby likes reusing music, and reused it during SAVE the world and Hopes and Dreams. the 'sea' theme could be from the whale sfx from some variations

[@pokegard]

I think the ultimate goal is to kill the player, it is implied the angel is the player in the first game, so banishing the angels heaven would probably be to kill the player and remove the happy ending Edit: lost a be, and in this metaphor we would be angels, the beings given the charge to show the people of god/Toby’s world the right path(the good ending). Thus we probably have to let go and let them create their own ending even tho it isn’t the good one Edit: lost a , and a the was replaced by a to

[@ViWiCoverChannel]

Yoo, i was waiting for it!❤❤

[@true_joker2621]

Im so glad I found your channel! I've binged em during my lunch break, I cant wait to see your next one!

[@_J189]

I never would have thought that last video was your first. Good job 👍

[@user-dj3jo8po4x]

10:27 and i get hit with the most random sequence of events lol. Ice e is a corruptted game file ply s war without reason playing in the background... Nice

[@gabrote42]

1:19 As a Rangu and Ghost Trick fan, relatable

[@zeo4481]

0:20 HOLY HECK MAN , this is my alarm for over 4 mounts, don't scare me like that !!😮 13:20 oMG 😳😳 that makes so much sense

[@v1x4570]

I can't believe there's STILL more I'm learning about this game and we're only 2 chapters in, is toby making the best game ever or what?

[@thenobody7509]

So, something i want to point out about our vessel. Goner head 2 and goner body 1 are frisk's head and body which i find. Interesting. Chara also has the potential to show up. Mainly, because well. Kris researched occult and it is heavily implied the reason chara came back is due to two things. Flowey calling their name and us playing the game. We and chara are very much attached to one another and in genocide they call themselves a demon. So, if we are playing the game then they will probably appear or maybe they already have. Maybe the thing ripping is out of kris isnt kris. But Chara

[@leiakasta7602]

Here’s why I think Susie’s healing magic is important: I play dnd, right? And one thing that I’ve learned is that even tiny nothing healing spells can be important because they can take someone from being downed to being functional again, even if it’s only by a few hit points. I know that Susie’s healing magic is seen as a little nothing useless spell and Deltarune is very much not DnD but I can’t help but in both of them, characters are up if their HP is above 0. I lean more towards Susie’s healing magic might come in handy at some vital point in the future (though given the current cost of 100% for it that might be in a cutscene instead of in battle lol).

[@bernardotib.3650]

I really like seeing a follow up to the last video, and will be waiting for the next one, great theories, editing, etc Also, loved that one animation at the end!

[@micaelan.4212]

Something that keeps bothering me is the whole "Angel's Heaven" thing, because we don't know what it is, at all. Ralsei didn't give any explanation for it when he told us the legend. But the whole point of our journey is to save the world by "banishing" it, right? And that must relate to sealing the fountains? Who or what is the Angel? No one's told us what the Angel's Heaven means. Nobody's even said if it's a bad thing. Isn't it weird that the thing we're supposed to be motivated to prevent is something we're given no info about?

[@TheMind129]

14:03 I HAVE PAUSED THE VIDEO AND HAVEN'T SEEN PAST THIS. I am predicting that Kris will one day remove us and retain control over themselves. So when that happens, we need a new vessel. What better vessel than THE ONE WE MADE AT THE BIGING OF THE GAME! I will comment on this comment my reaction if I'm right or not.

[@TheMind129]

Yep.

[@thingpp]

NEW BANGER DROPPED

[@CheesyLizzy]

1:32 Good, cause you're awesome and I really love your videos so far 😄

[@kariissmol9172]

Congrats, you have gained a new subscriber

[@Abraham_the_pierra]

I dont remember where but toby fox once wrote Ice E is not real And then 1 paragraph later he says Ice E is real

[@dethnitegaming4178]

The fact that when Big Shot played it was just my standard music volume 😂😭

[@MetalBow]

Glad to see a follow up :D In the last video, when you were saying something along the lines of 'i wont be getting into that topic now, the video is long enough already' - i was just like no! Please keep going! Tell us more >:3

[@wasabi5134]

"What happens next, ch 3 and 4 releases a week after this video?" Video dropped: 6 days ago Looks at time: 11:40 pm :0

[@es7992]

I mean, the Thrash Machine was made to kick 'your' ass, so maybe the 'your' was actually referring to the vessel you made in the beginning?

[@Lia_da2904]

Great analysis hope you don't stay just for deltarune videos, you got so much potencial and i will love to hear more from you

[@dantes_integrity]

I won't, this channel is mainly my gonna be for me to talk about the things I want to talk about, maybe to funny video edits with it too. Deltarune is just what I am focusing on at the moment, because the game just has its hooks in me

[@MasonIncorporated]

I think I found my new favorite youtuber

[@LefisheAuchocolat-hz4og]

Finally people are talking about Catti and Susie. I personally don't think it implies something sinister about Susie, but I do believe it is something that could lead to character moments. I thought of the Ideea that if (or when) Catti will eneter a dark world, the game will focus on the realtion between Susie and Catt. I believe that both will show eachother's strengths and weaknesses through their rivalry. What Catti's character flaws might be, I have no ideea, but for Susie I do. I believe Susie is too impulsive. This impulsiveness is good in some aspects, (her taking intiative in saving Noelle when she is attacked by the werewires), but it can also be bad. Susie is completly ok with Berdly creating a dark fountain, despite her hearing the prophesy (I know she didn't know about the Roaring, but she should have realised that creating more dark fountains would be bad).

[@a.fernando4319]

Is like he somewhere king of.... BAD TIME

[@orangeaurora]

unsure if catti is gonna be important. no dialogue sound. i say this cus it seems like between chapter 1 and 2, rouxls was going to have one retroactively added to him, but then toby decided against it. he COULD have decided to make characters who previously had no sound (keep in mind toby said chapter 1s initial release would have differences to the final) have sounds, but then he didn't. you could say that since rouxls reappears in chapter 2 that this argument shouldnt apply, since rouxls did reappear, but also catti didnt even get an unused one. i feel like shes gonna be more of a source for cryptic exposition down the line, like how tem serves a gameplay purpose of counting your eggs. jockington is also for sure just comic relief, i feel like hes building up to some kind of joke where his group project is gonna be something really deep and have nothing to do with sports, but thats just my thoughts.

[@TheSkyGuy77]

Wings Disaster is a very very interesting fellow 😂

[@Lilit_1234]

10:05 Yeah now i'm scared too

[@Flynnisthename]

Yay!!! More!!!!

[@r0021]

the old song that's coming from the sea is penumbra phantasm and i refuse to believe otherwise because I'm too deep into this theory already

[@r0021]

sorry for the brainrot

[@mindlessmemes1]

so cool

[@Minecraft_robllo]

58 seconds ago is wild

[@C0smic_Lunar093]

omg ultrakill music

[@sheop874]

Oo theres more

[@rfurthegamer3412]

Cool man

[@Amphorde]

Ah Ice-E pizzeria is probably going to be a Darkworld with that burger pants dude has a party member isn't i- Hey hold up, didn't we talk about an ice themed darkworld before? Wasn't it about Noël and Rudy and the game she played, "Dragon Blazers", which was an rpg... hey was that guy hitting the pizza dough talking about wizards and shit as if he was role playing or something? Anyway for what I've found there's Seam who says we'll need the Shadow mantle against Chapter 3's stronger-boss-related-to-the-Knight-and-that-gives-a-shadowcrystal but it was stolen and he comments on how we may lose a party member because victory is not possible (well he says that nut he assumes there's three party members, either having more will prevent this from happening, either a scenario in which only two characters fight them, similarily to the Spamton NEO weird route fight where you only had Kris). First I think it's possible that boss may not be optional like Jevil and Spamton NEO because Jevil was a secret boss but Spamton appears during the main story and the bossfight is put as a known but optional side quest, and then his weird route boss fight is not optional. Second : I don't who would be able to steal the Shadow Mantle without Seam noticing but the Knight, which we know is a Lightner and could have picked up the item corresponding to the Shadow Mantle in the lightworld while in the abandoned classroom. (Or maybe it just fell when Kris picked up the stuff to bring it to Castle town) The other thing is the twisted sword, created by the fusion of the ThornRing and a PureCrystal in the Bakery shop in Castle Town. That might just be a way for the player to use the weapon they might have partially relied on but can't use anymore due to Noël not being a party member next time, or it might be Kris time to continue the rampage. Oh and I guess Seam's line "Unfortunately, without the Shadow Mantle, at 2 you may remain" might be linked to Noël mentioning a mage leaving the party while playing Dragon Blazers.

[@Ongle_Spongle]

Oh man! Now that I know you’re going to do a Ralsei video next, I just *have* to tell you about my own observation/theory about him and the prophecy! (This might be a bit long, so apologies in advance! 😅) In the legend, it talks about how “if this harmony were to shatter, a terrible calamity would occur” and then it basically talks about the roaring. But! *Right after that* it says: “*Only then*, shining with hope, three heroes appear at worlds’ edge” “*Only they* can seal the fountains and banish the angel’s heaven” “*Only then* will balance be restored and the world saved from destruction.” What I thought was weird was the many uses of “Only they/Only then”, which seems *very* specific despite (I can’t remember where exactly I heard this) Toby saying that the legend/prophecy was meant to sound like it was “translated through many different languages and back again” (or something like that) Which would explain all of the weird language used, and yet these *very specific* statements on *Who* will save the world and *When/How* they’ll do it are still clear as day? What I’m trying to get at is, it sounds like (in my opinion, through this interpretation) that the roaring is *supposed* to happen. The roaring happens, we show up when all hope seems to be gone, we close the fountains and banish the angel’s heaven, the world is saved. Sounds pretty straightforward. So… why does Ralsei *not* want the roaring to happen? Why does he portray the roaring in chapter 2 as something that sounds like, if it happens, it’s going to destroy the world no matter what and there’s nothing we can do to stop it, when we’re literally *the heroes* in the legend? The same heroes that are supposed to save the day? Why does the legend portray a (seemingly) hopeful ending with us saving the world (with us closing the fountains *and* banishing the angel’s heaven) when *according to Ralsei*, it sounds like that’s thrown out the window *entirely* if the roaring happens at all? As if we won’t be there to save everyone? It feels like the domino effect has already started (the balance has been shifted), and we’re just adding more to the end instead of letting it go, if that makes sense. And he even describes it as "a journey foretold exactly by the prophecy" and "- the ancient prophecy foretold by space and time" So? What gives? Seam says something in chapter 1 that really makes me think: “*One day soon, you too will begin to realize the futility of your actions. At that time, feel free to come back here. I’ll make you tea… And we can toast… to the end of the world!*” “The futility of your actions”… Ralsei not wanting the roaring to happen… could he be leading us astray by having us close the fountains preemptively? *On purpose?* I don’t want to make it sound like he’s “secretly evil” or anything, I’m just saying that the roaring seems like it’s integral to us actually saving the world, even if it’s something that initially sounds like we should avoid. This is a bit of a stretch, but it could be similar to how everyone avoids Susie because they think she’s terrifying and would kick their ass, but once you get to know her (if she lets you) she’s really not as bad as everyone thinks she is. Ralsei could be either misinterpreting the legend’s meaning (somehow) or he could simply be doing this with no ill will and has purely good intentions, despite the potential bad outcomes of having us do this. This especially with what we know about Ralsei’s tendencies towards sweeping uncomfortable topics and feelings under the rug, I’m of course talking about the post NEO fight conversation where he completely disregards Kris’s obvious distress by telling them it didn’t mean anything and that they should just forget about it, and that he’ll make them cake and give them his scarf just to get them to stop freaking out, when that’s not what they need in that moment, but yet that’s all Ralsei knows to do. “*Queen! Think of the lightners! Aren’t we supposed to make them happy?*” “*Our purpose- darkners purpose- is to assist them. It’s the only way we can feel truly fulfilled.*” Another small question I have is this, if usually when a dark fountain is created, whoever is in charge of said dark world (like King or Queen) tends to get talked to by The Knight (whoever they were at that point), and whoever is under them prominently (like Jevil and Spamton) gets talked to by Gaster. So… *who talked to Ralsei?* Or did they *both* talk to him? Because I can see it as, in terms of The Knight, what they’re trying to say is just *so vague* that whoever they’re talking to just either misinterprets it or projects what *they* would want out of what The Knight is asking them to do (like if they were trying to understand a dream). Like, when Queen said “it deigned to create this world”, ‘deigned’ means “to do something that one considers to be beneath ones dignity” which sounds more like something *she* would feel if she had to create a dark fountain (which is probably another reason why she wanted Noelle to do it) And King was just so filled with rage and the urge to avenge the darkners that were betrayed by the lightners, that he no doubt felt that the knight wanted to do the same. So with Ralsei and his innate love towards the player, when the knight talked to him and showed him what it shows everyone else, it’s interesting that he would potentially come to the *exact opposite* conclusion that everyone else comes to when interpreting the knights message (on top of whatever insane knowledge Gaster bestowed upon him, probably making him aware of the player). So, maybe Gaster told him about the player, and then when The Knight came along, he just felt like it was his duty to help us however he could, but in him doing that, he’s kinda making it so that we end up wanting to cover the world in darkness even more, if that makes sense (like the Streisand effect). I think he would benefit more from just *preparing* us for when the roaring happens, instead of what he’s doing now, which ironically would then make us more concerned with saving the world. It’s the difference between “Oh, you want us to stop the world from being covered in darkness? Nah” vs “Hey, maybe we should actually try to *stop* this from happening instead of just preparing for it.” Idk! I’m probably just rambling at this point 😅 so I think I’ll stop here! Hope this made sense!

[@Ongle_Spongle]

WAIT!! I *have* to tell you about the sweepstakes!! (Last thing, I swear!) In the sweepstakes, specifically in Ralsei’s nurse outfit page, it says: LET'S BE HONEST [folx]. [Fluff] SELLS. AND WHO HAS MORE [fluffey], [scringley] APPEAL THAN EVERYONE'S FAVORITE [HIGHLY-marketable] [That Guy]. [Dress him up!!] IN THIS ONE-OF-A-KIND [nurse costume $9.99] AND HE WILL MAKE YOUR [boo-boos] GO [bye-bye]! BUY NOW AND IN OUR [Specil Deal], HE WILL ALSO MAKE YOUR [baa baas] GO [bo bo]!!!!! Now, at first I was confused as to what the “baa baa” and “Bo Bo” meant, and then it clicked. *They’re nursery rhymes.* *Ba Ba* Black sheep and Little *Bo* Peep. Ba Ba- (Black sheep) = a member of a family who is considered a disgrace to it. (like Kris and Susie) *He will make your ‘boo-boo’s (Kris and Susie)* Little Bo Peep= Who *lost* her sheep. *Go ‘bye-bye’ (Lost)* No clue what this will mean in the future but *boy* am I freaked out! 👀

[@lillithefangirl2422]

It’s possible that Ralsei is trying to avoid a premature Roaring? Like, the heroes need more experience in order to properly defeat everything. Which fair, you do not want to go into the apocalypse without preparations. That being said, you’re absolutely bringing up some fascinating points! Ralsei’s sus meter is only going up with each realization, but like you said he’s not (intentionally) malicious

[@Ongle_Spongle]

@@lillithefangirl2422 Thank you! 🤗 I thought the same thing too! But then I also thought, why not just *tell* them that? Like “hey, I’m trying to prepare you for this big thing that’s coming that you are *not* ready for right now.” He could’ve even told them that when berdly was trying to start the roaring! But then again he might just have a thing about assumptions? Like how he assumed Queen knew about what she was doing would start the roaring, when she had no idea, so it could just be something like that I guess? 🤷

[@lillithefangirl2422]

@@Ongle_Spongle Because Ralsei has toxic positivity, lacks social skills, and doesn’t realize that communicating about serious stuff is so important

[@Ongle_Spongle]

@@lillithefangirl2422 Oh absolutely! The whole toxic positivity bit fits him *perfectly* while also not painting him as the bad guy, just someone who means well but ends up doing the wrong thing

[@nneykobar_hali]

Diferent contents of the drawer across save files might imply that all 4 save files belong to kriss and that he used them before , and his choices influensed contents of the drawer. Because i will never belive that toby choose to have 4 save files siply for the sake of convinience. But he might ve done it to incuarage our inhumane expirementation in this world...

[@JtheTree]

nice

[@partlyawesome]

2 good vids

[@am-180]

random war without reason event

[@slyfox7452]

I think Icee is supposed to be a random mascot like how everyman is a representative symbol

[@godwin972]

8:24 casual spongebob 7/25/05 reference?!!?

[@dantes_integrity]

You. You get me.

[@Teethmafia]

I might be misremembering… but in the last video you said there are going to be 7 chapters of deltarune. That’s the same number of deadly sins and heavenly virtues in the divine comedy. I haven’t even played chapter 2 yet but I wonder if there might be specific parallels to these featured each episode.

[@ICountFrom0]

Wait, nightmare is a fun value? I only played once, I thought that was normal.

[@AlexFenra]

I want you all to know that there is a high chance that Susie's healing magic being ass >now< could be compared to Terry's attack being ass in Lisa the Painful. And Toby Fox likes rpg maker games. All I'm saying is that if at any point you're given the option to trade out Susie's magic DO NOT DO IT

[@Szymon-ul6zk]

Are there really only 2 videos on your channel? I could've sworn there were more...

[@rhyneredpanda5443]

Can I get a citation about the Deltarune ending coming from a fever dream?

[@dantes_integrity]

"T: In 2011, when I was away at school, I got very sick. I ended up having a terrible fever and couldn’t get any medicine for it, and while I was sleeping I had a vivid dream about the ending to a game. Since then… I felt like I had to make the game with that ending. I attempted to make that game in 2012 using character designs by an artist I really like called Kanotynes. However, I stopped making it even before I made a single room of the game." NintentoSoup, Toby Fox Speaks About Deltarune’s Development, Shares New Concept Art

[@terribleTerrestrial]

omg do you have npd too :D?! you said it would fuel your narcissism so you probably have npd right :D??!

[@WeaselWeaselW]

Your method of theorizing isn't in vain. To put things into perspective, much like HalfBreadChaos, you're the Columbo of the theory community. Tying up the loose ends, focusing on the small things you don't understand yet feel are part of something greater. After all, isn't that what Undertale did best in its narrative subversion - presenting things that seemed small or minor, yet turn out to be important things later on?