Argentina's Open-Bolt Pocket .22s: the Hafdasa HA and the Zonda

[@sordiddreams9216]

Am I the only one here really impressed with the idea of moving the magazine to safe the gun? To me that's a stroke of genius. Utterly out-of-the-box thinking.

[@lucianene7741]

That was the only way to make the gun safe while allowing the bolt to close.

[@Treblaine]

All those open bolt submachine guns that has all sorts of tricky mechanisms to deal with the bolt being drop-safe... none seemed to think of a two-position magazine.

[@lucianene7741]

@@Treblaine Actually they did think about it. There are a number of open bolt submachine guns with folding magazines.

[@Treblaine]

@@lucianene7741 Oh yeah, those Italian SMGs. Folding the magazine would also effectively safe the firearm. Good point.

[@dariob3755]

SordidDreams

[@tealosophy]

Zonda wind (viento zonda) is a regional term for the feohn wind that often occurs on the eastern slope of the Andes, in Argentina. The Zonda is a dry wind (often carrying dust) which comes from the polar maritime air, warmed by descent from the crest, which is approximately 6,000 m (20,000 ft) above sea level. It may exceed a velocity of 40 km/h (25 mph).

[@strangesignal9757]

From Argentina, can confirm. But what's worth to mention is that because of the deserts and arid landscape of much of central-western Argentina, these zonda winds can lift up severe sand and dust storms throughout the region. Several battles of the argentine civil war were fought under these storms, like Angaco.

[@helicocktor]

Oh my lord. After literal decades. I thought Pagani just named it that cause it sounded cool. I know he's Argentinian but that particular bit was never explained to me.

[@27dcx]

open bolt designs are so elegant in their simplicity

[@lordilluminati5836]

I had a zonda with a supresor. quietest gun ever but it was quite unreliable and sometimes jammed on ejection. basically no recoil but it's a .22 so no surprizes there. oh and SA means "sociedad anonima" which is the same as "limited" as in "limited liability company"

[@agustingallo485]

@bert smith yes

[@lucianolevy1304]

@bert smith a lot of burocracy

[@juanpablosandanella7863]

"sociedad anonima" is not the same as "limited". Sociedad Anónima is a complete different figure. In Argentina, "limited liability company" is "Sociedad de Responsabilidad Limitada" or SRL.

[@Skeebins]

the words "pocket" and "open bolt" scare me in the same sentence

[@thetruthexperiment]

If the bolt is open, don’t put it your pocket.

[@samholdsworth3957]

Or better yet if your pocket is open don't put your bolt in it

[@fmjmanarroyo1342]

Atleast it will only shoot you once...

[@mobilegamersunite]

Lol 🤣 for realz! You wouldn't want pocket lint in the chamber! Lol 🤣 ....or a bullet in the leg....or worse! Lol

[@AdarinMonk]

I can't believe they would scare you in the SAME SENTENCE, how dare they, the bastards. At least have the courtesy to scare you in *different* sentences. Terrible joke, I know. Correct yo gramma.

[@RobertoDonatti]

I've got an early one that somebody gave me years ago. I call it the "suicide special". There's no safe way to carry it that may allow you to use it as defensive gun. I only shot it a couple of times and was surprised to see that it was pretty accurate for its size and type.

[@Isaac-ho8gh]

Blowback firearms including open bolt ones tend to be more accurate due to the bolt not rotating nor tilting to lock like on most bigger pistols.

[@phrodendekia]

Por las dudas tenés que cargar ya apuntando 🤣

[@ragganyc]

That’s probably one of the coolest looking 22 automatics i’ve seen😺

[@francislematt7079]

It's amazing they actually tried to create everything from scratch to make a truly unique pistol (practical or not) rather than copying this and that to put together. Me liking it.

[@ivanklammer4306]

My country have style in guns

[@cortos_9733]

@@ivanklammer4306 Indeed it does. Are there any other natively produced weapons from your country you would recommend looking at? I don't know much about the South American arms industry.

[@josecbritos]

@@cortos_9733 new guns probably Bersa pistols, old ones maybe Ballester Molina, and possibly 1891 Argentine Mauser (not made in Argentina, but for Argentina).

[@Guadalajara1937]

@@josecbritos wait,how old is Bersa?

[@alanch90]

So much fun hearing you speak in spanish (you do fine BTW). Love your videos. Cheers from Argentina

[@irpsicologiayeducaciongrup8251]

Aaayyy, a gun from my country! Awesome!

[@Dja05]

Convert to full auto for ANGRIEST BEEEEEEEES !!!

[@bigDdavy]

I like that reference

[@rickautry2759]

But the only way you could tell that you ran through your clip was your suddenly rubbery wrist and the ringing in your ears...

[@jackandersen1262]

That’s called an American 180.

[@mrman3809]

Hah

[@lucianomendoza2253]

We used to, stopped cayse too many people were going deaf

[@Beefyrulz]

The hafdasa just sounds like someone mashed a keyboard when they named it.

[@pstrap1311]

Yeah, it's a real half assed name.

[@jorgelaman6200]

That isn’t funny mate

[@NvrchFotia]

maybe a native american word like zonda

[@m_fredi9549]

The result of an acronimus of too many words.

[@VonRammsteyn]

I am argentine and have allways thought the same about that name... It stands 4...Hispano Argentina Fábrica De Automóviles Sociedad Anónima.... They could pick another name...Like really...

[@Kit-vb5rm]

It's a joy to watch and listen to you Ian. Thank you for all your presentations. Well done !!!

[@MinecraftMastersARG]

I love your videos and it makes me proud seeing guns from my country here!

[@ShaloooGT]

MUCHAAAAAAAACHOOOOOOOOSSS

[@MrLM002]

More forgotten 22s please.

[@T0mN7]

Yes! Finally some guns from my country! :D Please if you ever have a chance, do a video on the Ballester-Molina. My grandpa was a cop and he carried one of those... I'd love to see a video on Forgotten Weapons about it!

[@DrownInLysergic]

Just wanna say you guys have a phenomenal firearm company in Bersa. Love those guys and love their guns!

[@choccymilkfiend]

Some pretty neato pistols from my country , saludos de argentina boludo !

[@helvehammer7846]

I've had a Ballester Molina .45 for many many years and still thoroughly enjoy and carry it.

[@malnadado8949]

A mi me prestaron por un tiempo una zonda en .22lr no es nada del otro mundo pero su diseño y forma de usar es bastante curiosa (por no decir que es un dolor de pija terrible) ya que la recamara la abre con la uña

[@jhoughjr1]

Gonzalo antoni not as neat as the Dogo Argentino! I own a Dogo/staff. Terrier/schnauzer mix. Most expressive dog evar!

[@malnadado8949]

I hope it is an obedient dog

[@uroboros89]

Vamo lo pibe!

[@VonRammsteyn]

Por fin te acordaste de nosotros Ian! But i'm still waithing 4 the Ballester Molina .45 video... I know you have one! Gracias y saludos a todos!

[@sulivanmagnum]

He finally did it!

[@VonRammsteyn]

@@sulivanmagnum yeah i saw it! Awesome!

[@miguelburgueno4891]

...you still amaze me bro... I´m Argentine, and since many years ago I love guns. I knew about the HA, but RIGHT NOW I can realize about the existence of the improved model "Zonda". What I can say to you..? Just a BIG "-Thank you, Gun Jesus..!" Kind regards..!

[@Darktro0per33]

You know something? Just as a few parts to the gun and they'll fit right in with the Star Wars universe

[@victor7gomez]

Just put a scope on it and it will fit right in

[@coaxill4059]

They could keep the name too!

[@trevillyan5515]

If someone can be trusted to build a Hispano-Suiza, they can be trusted to build a .22 pistol lol

[@EmpanadaDeCaca]

YAAAS! I've waited a lot for a video of an Argentinian gun, im so glad. I'm still waiting for a video on that Ballester Molina though!

[@carlospezzarini]

Very complete review from very rare guns!! Regards from Argentina

[@DarkLanceAR]

Excellent video Ian, I hope at some point you could cover the Ballester Molina .22LR since the floating chamber makes a quite an interesting feature for that firearm. All the best from Argentina

[@ForgottenWeapons]

Friday. :)

[@DarkLanceAR]

You indeed are the Gun Jesus :D

[@donzmilky5961]

On the zonda i would assume cocking the gun while the magazine safety is on would be best.

[@chapiit08]

I owned an Armotor which instead of the scallop it had a stubby cocking handle that ended in flat button and had the magazine type safety, it worked flawlessly and was accurate enough for informal target shooting and plinking.

[@DerMetzgerFrank]

Another cool weapon from my country! best YT channel ever

[@JandRJarmsandammo]

Isn’t just me that I think open bolt and 22 is a perfect match

[@juancarlosvolcovinsky]

I remember my father had bought the first HAFDASA around 1952 , and it was really a pain in my ass. So many problems to fire a round and besides that , it was a heavy gun with almost no pointing devices , causing the shooter to fire with no sights. Now a days I have a Bersa BP9 CC, that is a compact gun that shows the evolution of a well design pistol.

[@hypernova3527]

That last model is very cleverly designed, the safety has some small issues, like a less comfortable reload, but still a very simple and efficient method.

[@bernhardeisl7382]

I love tubular (is that a word) barrel housings (like the spanish astra)

[@OvertravelX]

Bernhard Eisl I grew up in the 80s, and I can assure you that tubular is totally a word.

[@davidgreen5099]

OvertravelX totally.

[@markwilson3978]

I like the tubular design as well !

[@zacharyrollick6169]

My Astra 600 is a wonderful pistol.

[@toddhoward5964]

"As soon as I can, I'll have my Hispano-Suiza brought up from Buenos Aires".

[@huevacho97]

Greetings from Argentina!! Love your channel. Didn't know this two

[@elsoldadomarquez]

S.A. stands for Sociedad Anónima.

[@ADRay1999]

It looks almost like a Ruger type pistol

[@ADRay1999]

Katie pelrine: that’s what I was thinking as well, it like a mix between the mark IV and the other Ruger pistols

[@alucardvigilatedismas2868]

I was thinking Mark 4 with PPK

[@andrewmcgibbon2342]

Andrew Dalton Ray True

[@encross8058]

Nice hat

[@billsummy2412]

wish they still made these and sold them in the USA ... I for one would buy it ! :-)

[@ivanklammer4306]

I love the guns from my country, viva argentina carjoo!!!!

[@iLLeag7e]

Man that brick fireplace has one helluva gun collection

[@silken600]

Hello I have a hafdasa 22 Zonda also made the commando rifle using the body of the pistol with a long barrel and a stock that was removed

[@JonathanChappell]

Very neat looking pistols, and a surprisingly interesting simple mechanism. I kinda want one.

[@lisandrogarabentos4718]

First time seeing a gun from my country in this channel, its great. Btw your spanish is pretty good!

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

The retraction of the magazine to fire means you'd have to set it to safe to change the magazine, right? So when you've reloaded, it's automatically on 'safe', pretty cool... =)

[@mickeydown556]

I saw a gangster with one of these in San Diego and the gun was converted to full auto. Didn't work real well...

[@bigDdavy]

4:56 when you're gun's durability is low on fallout 3

[@msterns1852]

i'm am going to copy the early models receiver. i like the double open sided receiver. I have my own ( i think unique) design in mind for a semi auto grease gun like project.

[@josephd.5524]

The follower in the magazine at 4:23 is pretty interesting to me.

[@julioernestolivio6476]

Soy argentino amante de las armas y no la conocia, excelente

[@capscaps04]

These pistols are also know here as "pistolas carabinas" (carbine pistols). And the inside mechanism was designed similar to the machine pistol PAM (another argentine gun from around the same time), specialy the "bolt" that you pull back when you load it. the PAM also had something similar too.

[@cristian6766]

Tose are really beautiful guns. I love small guns and today i think most of your small gun videos.

[@estudiom142]

Nice vid, cheers from Mendoza Argentina..

[@imaginewhirledpeas6696]

looks like the grip profile of a hi point had a baby with a ruger mark1 target pistol...cool piece!

[@jamesrhodes4583]

Cool little guns. I have a Ballester Molina that is converted to 22lr with a floating chamber. Just FYI for your future video on the Molina’s. And if you get real in-depth with Argentine pistols I have a Commercial Colt 1911 that was sent to The Argentine Police.

[@jansenart0]

I'm more interested in that wooden dragon statue in the back left there. Though it was fun to learn about what some people consider good practice in firearm design, those guns seem like dangerous inaccurate death traps to me.

[@maximilianoarbe-zc6oy]

Tengo la hafdasa la primera pistola que mostró fabricada en la década del 40 era de mi abuelo y hoy la uso yo. Es un arma muy segura y confiable

[@juanbriandoyle]

The HA had a predecesor. The HAFDASA C2. A 9mm parabellum submachine pistol. It also had a .45 version. 40 were made and only one is known to have survived, and its in a military museum of Argentina, not sure which.

[@maximilianoarbe-zc6oy]

Tengo la hafdasa era de mi abuelo fabricada a mediados de los años 40 yo la poseo hasta el día de hoy una excelente arma la porto diariamente

[@haroldellis9721]

9:55 But not as hard to see as the sights. Why? Why? Why? I could also see this if it were full auto, but otherwise, "I have a .22 pistol that is impossible to shoot well, and just asks for problems."

[@commoncriminal923]

That spring retention magazine is cool

[@jorgejosewolski4143]

La pistola zonda aparte del seguro de cargador posee seguro de cola de disparador,que esta ubicado en la parte delantera de la misma y consiste en un perno de acero que bloquea el perno que posee el bloque en su parte delantera y se introduce en el cañon,si no se acciona la cola de disparador no se desbloquea y por lo tanto no se produce un disparo accidental,creo no equivocarme debe ser la primer pistola que traía ese tipo de seguridad,saludos desde Argentina.

[@GreenBeretUSA]

I hope Ian get his hands on a Halcon Submachine gun or a FMK3, Argentina had a pretty good gun culture, its sad because today its coming to an end.

[@klausbrinck2137]

6:21 I understood that that´s semiauto, and not single-action... But the shear-action looks like the full-auto-shear-action of a smg, and not like a semiauto-shear-action... So, what happened there ??? Is it one of those cases, where it´s easy convertible to full-auto, by simply not-depressing the trigger ???

[@durgatomar9689]

Dear Sir, I am a chemistry lecturer but amazed by guns, I think zonda is one of marvel of handgun, because of its easiest mechanism and design, but there is extremely less information available on net. Kindly make some more videos, on full dessembly and also firing performance.. It's a request😀

[@lapovoittamaton6086]

I had no idea about these two, I thought the only "forgotten weapon" we had in the last century was the FARA 83.

[@confuseatronica]

its weird that it has a lot of tiny smooth features like they were trying to make it not catch on things when it's being drawn out of your pocket, and a trigger disconnecting safety- like most "pocket" pistols have. But then it has this magazine tab sticking out and a non-positive latch holding it in... weird. they probably saw that cause they fixed it in the zonda

[@ricardokowalski1579]

3:26 Where it says "Ballester - Molina" there is a letter h in parentesis (h) means "hijo". This is because, as said in the other video about the .45.... this was the SON of the original Ballester It would make sense that this happened at the high serial numbers, in the later years

[@esrvdb88]

Thats a pretty funky safety on the 2nd model, but idk about that firing pin idea though...

[@АлександрИпритов]

Very ergonomic and beautiful!!

[@thelonerider5644]

Those just look so cool.

[@Zajuts149]

This didn't make me as angry as the Swiss toggle-lock SMG, but it is sometimes frustrating to see guns that have absolutely nothing going for them. Then, right at the end, we're shown the little mechanism that prevents out-of-battery detonations, and that made me really happy:)

[@m1garandlvr420]

What was the plunger type piece sticking out of the bolt face of the Zonda pistol? Is it the ejector or part of the upgraded firing pin assembly?

[@Yosemite-George-61]

Nice ! Zonda is the name of a wind.

[@77ARATH]

I'm making a very similar gun, but i didn't knew about this one till now

[@Ratrazor]

I don't get what keeps it from firing in full auto is there a disconnector on the sear that drops because I didn't see that?

[@grayharker6271]

I have my father in law's Obrea 32 revolver he carried in the Argentine army in the 50s.

[@captainhyperion]

Nice guns! i never saw them and im from Argentina. Im waiting for a Ballester Molina .45, i had one in my hands because y grandad was from Army. But couldn't fire it, the laws about guns are very restrictive.... you must wait almost a year to buy one and the limit is .32. Still, every one talking about teh BM.45 mod Colt 1911 says is an awesome gun and look fot it to collection.

[@jhoancuetotorres2625]

Puedes hacer un vídeo con la pistola zonda disparándola para ver cómo funciona gracias Saludos des de colombia

[@pastafiend845]

Pretty sure Ian says "Oh, fuck you" at 5:01 . A rare Ian curse word.

[@alexm566]

Zonda is still an automobile brand to this day (Pagani Zonda).

[@beastboy0078]

@Forgotten Weapons: Please do a video on the 1956 Whitney Wolverine. 22lr pistol.

[@mobilegamersunite]

These just look cool 😎

[@russellhopper6925]

Always wait 60 seconds before trying to fix any type of misfire, u less you are under fire . It's the longest 60 seconds you can imagine , but it's safe . Be safe

[@p0331546]

these videos presented by gun jesus, so soothing. oosah

[@mfree80286]

If it wasn't illegal, could "resurrect" the concept but with an HK P7 style cocking lever on the grip, and the 'mag motion' safety built into the disconnector. Carry with an empty chamber (nobody would actually carry one of these, I know, but it's a mental exercise), unholster, squeeze the grip lever which runs the bolt back until it's past the disconnector/sear, at which point the magazine pops up into firing position and you're ready to go. Have a malfunction? Release and squeeze the grip again. I wonder if, with .22lr, you could get away with putting a firing pin protrusion on the chamber edge and crush the cartridge rim from the front side...

[@brasstard7.627]

Reminds me of the Italian lercker 25acp machine pistol

[@randywatson8347]

The huge ejectionport looks intimidating 😊

[@ShotgunGabe]

Hmmm i wonder if you convert it to full auto, Since it’s open bolt and .22 the recoil shouldn’t be that bad.

[@Harulfr]

Could the second model be loaded one-handed (considering you where a rightie)? Seems to me like it's just a matter of sticking your trigger finger into the ejection port and pulling back. In this case that pistol would be kinda (more) awesome.

[@williamprince1114]

30 or so years ago I nearly purchased one of these. I was new to firearms and got worried about finding parts and that it was potentially classified as a machine gun. Handy sized firearm for a guy looking for a handy little plinker and trail gun.

[@mantistoboggan5171]

i swear the pistols that scout troopers use on endor in return of the jedi are based off of these.

[@22tanmay]

Possibly the simplest production 22 pistol made.

[@laureanoalfaro9351]

Man, you should do the Hafdasa C-4, a very interesting weapon.

[@sneakycactus8815]

Those look sick

[@TrojanSalesmen1]

Its so cool! I love it.

[@1stKwestionable]

Any chance you might be able to make a video on the HAFDASA C-4?

[@kmd9999]

I see you found the 'Vibrance' button in the Lumetri panel. Cool pistols! Who did they think was going to buy them though?

[@Brandelwyn]

Looks pretty cool

[@josephbolz4550]

They made a load of Sistema 1911A1’s also

[@maxhoyle2134]

Hi, I love your videos! And speaking of Argentinian 22lr's have you ever done an article on an Pistola Automatica T.A.L.A. ? I have 2 one 4 inch and one 6inch barrels, they are a slightly modified first gen Colt woodsman with an arched mainspring housing, pencil thin barrel, same magazines, shoot as good as Colts, but 4 incher not super dependable, nut 6 incher is better, never seen any but these two, thanks!

[@johnnyyang5980]

Nice video,it would be great to see this gun in action.

[@ВикторКалчев-у2ф]

What's preventing these from firing fully automatic?

[@CaptainGrief66]

A trigger disconnector. The same type of contraption that makes select fire weapons possible.

[@joevidya]

Viktor Kaltchev some tools and free time.

[@velazquezarmouries]

Do you guys have a ballester molina 1911?

[@gustafgoransson5026]

I don't know why I like about theese vlogs, maby it's all the guns?