Former OHP Sonar Supervisor ASW Tutorial - Torpedo Evasion 4/5

[@Enigma89]

My ships thank you

[@z0rgMeister]

This series has got to be the best current tutorial on ASW for Sea Power out there. How you only have 1.6k views I don't know. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, please share more if you can.

[@ryu1940]

Wow, thanks! I’ll definitely make some more Sea Power stuff. I love the game.

[@Kreemerz]

But you really need to do a *real beginners* level. That discusses understanding the map, how to control the ships, control the formation, etc... Maybe start a new game, and show what the beginner needs to do first. No tutorials seem to explain that.

[@Mthammere2010]

He got some serious competition: Sub Brief, Jingles, Devil Dog Gamer and FPS Chasley

[@ryu1940]

@Mthammere2010 it is funny jingles basically parroted what I said about emcon two days after I made my emcon video, I wonder if he will do the same with my other videos.

[@Mthammere2010]

@@ryu1940 Jingles did serve ~20 years in a front line NATO naval nation. How many definitions to a NATO abbreviation can there be?

[@techstepman]

nice tactics! Its absolutely logical to do these things , but i would probably never think of em myself. So simple yet so effective.

[@ryu1940]

Thank you I am glad I was able to teach a little bit here in this cool game!

[@yaboosnubs]

sailing away from torp in straight like is like running away from car in horror movie. the way you do it is to turn 60* degres away from their bearing and floor it. you make distance, don't lose contact and get away from projected path.

[@ryu1940]

You can certainly do that too, but I'm not sure if you're running flank that you'll still be able to pick up contacts 5 nautical miles out (because of high flow noise and ship noise), for this I simply rely on my sonobuoys...even with Estocin having her tail out theoretically we are able to see behind us though the tail should suffer from range degradation going that fast.

[@droid4369]

Also, as of the current build, you can ALL STOP which stops your ship from generating a wake, and those torps won't see you. They'll swim right by.

[@ryu1940]

This is true but the problem with doing this can be that you are still in torpedo range so if they fire one more salvo of 53-65s now you are sitting still so theoretically if the shot is perfect it'll hit the ship and explode. The likely course of action is that you start running after that second salvo is detected generating a wake now for the new salvo to follow. I don't doubt in the game you could continue to test fate but it just is simpler to run away and build some distance to ensure you're safe then let your helicopters do the light work mopping up the sub.

[@droid4369]

@@ryu1940 Touché. I like this answer.

[@onealpha710]

Hi, thank you for the tutos and effort, very kind of you and great work! I bought It yesterday along with Armored Brigade II which In a way would be the land warfare counter part. Just a minor question If I may... I use to play Jane´s 688i H/K, Dangerous Waters, and Jane´s Fleet Command back In 1999/2000 with the Seawolves Community (long gone now). In regards with the Mk46, Is there a range In passive mode before the torp goes active, and what range Is the active cone on the Mk46? Again thank you for all the great work and guidance.

[@ryu1940]

Thank you! I am not sure how the game models the actual acquisition of a torpedo like the MK46 on a target.

[@onealpha710]

@@ryu1940 Ok thank you.

[@Stinker4583]

I JUST played this scenario and did basically the same thing. Only difference is, I launched 2 counter torpedos down the line. I figured, I have 16 of those + my helos, why be conservative? Is there any downside to firing more than 1?

[@ryu1940]

Not currently BUT when the game gets a dynamic campaign, I am positive the weapon counts will remain persistent after each battle as they were in War on the Sea so in the bigger picture you want to conserve weapons to keep your ships on tasking. It would suck to have to pull your ship off the area to go rearm because you spammed torpedoes in just one scenario.

[@Henoik]

​@@ryu1940I can't wait until the mission maker is fully complete. I've made a few already, and I'm happy with the scenarios given the limitations, but I'm definitely stoked for where this may be going

[@Paudelly]

Whats the best course of action if there is no way for your ship to out run the torpedo? Depending on speeds the torpedo may be double or more the speed of the ship and if detection is too close itll catch the ship before reaching max range.

[@ryu1940]

@@Paudelly great question! Unfortunately there is not much you can do if it’s too close, you should still get the counter fire off to hopefully get that sub to run and build space but if your noisemakers fail to throw off the torpedoes then you are unfortunately toast. One thing you can try but will likely fail to make a difference is be more gentle on your turn away from the torpedoes. When you put a waypoint down directly 180 from the torpedo line of bearing the ship will rudder over hard and that does affect the speed of the ship and slows it down. A gentler turn will likely keep the speed up which is vital. There’s just not a lot of good options so it is important to have sonobuoys out to detect torpedo salvos. I’ve heard the range is 5.3NM to pick up loud things so if you space them out along the course of your ship you’d at least give yourself a 5NM heads up.

[@eatleadcobra]

If it's a wake homer, I like to extend the line of bearing with the pencil tool like Ryu does in the video and then find the best way to cut the turn so that the torpedo never crosses my wake. Thankfully the AI in the game is pretty bad at bracketing and they usually just fire ahead which gives you plenty of room to turn in and basically drive around the torpedo if that makes sense. For a sonar homing torpedo at close range, dump noisemakers and pray to your deity of choice 🤣

[@pnzrldr]

Does the sim model any aspect of wire guidance, beyond the off-axis shot - and OBTW can you discuss this potential? No expert, but would anticipate that a torp still under direct command guidance would be able to nix the 'all stop, no wake' tactic if nothing else. How does 'wake homing' tie in with active homing, and how effectively can active torps home on surface ships? If a torp misses a surface ship, what typical search actions does it take independently to attempt to reacquire?

[@ryu1940]

Yeah the game has the TEST-71 torp which is wire guided. Only the Victor III, Kilo, and Oscar can fire it though. The US MK-48 is also wire guided in the game. With this information you wouldn't anticipate the command guided threat if you know you're going after some specific class like a Charlie sub or something like that. When torps are fired at you as well your sensor operators in the game will alert you to the type of torpedo it is so you can figure out if the off axis shot is a threat or not. I can't talk about some of that other stuff in regards to real life but I think at least in the game the 53-65 sniffs out the wake and then determines the boundaries of each side of the wake then starts to home in that way towards the source.

[@themoo12345]

Why not run at a 90 degree angle from the enemy torpedoes to get out of their sensor range? I've found that to be pretty effective so far.

[@ryu1940]

That definitely works too!

[@Emperorvalse]

Thank you for this. I like how you explain using the marker and look at the estimated danger zone. I always tried the geometric type of evasion that is put distance from the torp but also try to angle away from the seeker cone of detection.

[@ryu1940]

Thank you for that! That definitely could work too especially with wake homers I think the game ai uses them pretty poorly so it is possible to make sure you don't cross the wake of the torpedo's path and generally you would be safe running parallel to it.

[@julhelm1821]

@@ryu1940 How should the wake homers be used properly?

[@ryu1940]

When the ai releases a tight salvo at close to max range it’s easily defeated, if they hold off until they are closer you’re stuck in that danger for longer giving the torps a better chance at catching up to you. If they spread the torps in a wide salvo that creates a lot of danger areas you can’t run from easily

[@julhelm1821]

@@ryu1940 What would be the appropriate effective range of any given torpedo? I guess as a submarine you don't want to close range any more than you have to against surface ships that can kill you.

[@ryu1940]

@@julhelm1821 there’s no hard and fast rule for stuff like that but I would like to see the AI consider shots 70-80% of max range but also consider the threat sensor ranges and weapon ranges. Like I think the OHP in the game has a passive detection range of 10km (~5NM). Imagine if the sub closed that much before firing, or, considered the OHP carries the MK46 that has a max range of 8NM so it got to that range before firing….theres a lot of ways it could be different. Especially if the AI coupled launch behavior with post launch maneuvering. Like get close to fire then start to move out of the counter fire range etc.

[@jamesngotts]

Why didn’t you put an ASROC on that possible launch point?

[@ryu1940]

@@jamesngotts Estocin is an OHP FFG and does not have an ASROC launcher. The next closest unit with one was the belknap class which at a 6nm range would have landed the ASROC near the Estocin. Firing the Mk-46 from the Estocin was the best weapon system to get closest to the shooter.

[@TheFreaker86]

Since the torpedoes are wake homing it’s a good defense to get out of the way and stop the engine to let the wake dissipate. In real life you would not be willing to take the chances 😉

[@ryu1940]

I really dislike using the engine out tactic because it doesn't solve the problem of you being in range of a shot. All it would take at that point is the sub to follow up with another salvo and if you're sitting there you're now forced to move again and you can eventually be trapped. It is always best to build space with enemy submarines to stay away and then use your extensions like ASROC or helicopters to finish the job.

[@dtw8446]

The real question is how you do ASW with no helicopters. My poor Russians keep getting blowed up.

[@ryu1940]

@@dtw8446 Excellent question! The RBUs are great at destroying incoming torpedoes so once you detect one do a counter fire and use the RBUs to kill the torpedo. Keep charging ahead down the line of the shot and if you have other units flank around in leapfrogging sprints to close the gap with the sub and you’ll detect him eventually running from your counter fire. I might make a soviet version of this video using the hunters or hunted mission (I think that is what it is called).

[@Zooks1962]

@@ryu1940 But the RBUs are pretty gamey in Sea Power, aren't they? I don't think they have a chance of hitting a Torpedo. They were designed as a depth charge delivery system against submarines.

[@ryu1940]

@@Zooks1962 I do think it is possible if the explosions are large enough. I can't speak to how accurate it is or how it would target a torpedo but the devs have said it is a marketed feature of the system.

[@yaboosnubs]

@@ryu1940 rbu are last line of defence against torpedoes like phalanx is against missiles. difference here is rbu werent designed with that in mind, they're fine against their primary target - subs, but against torps its next to hopeless. devs acknowledged rbu were op in the early releases and were suppose to release that change.