Why you shouldn't remove your stock intake manifold

Learn what Charge Motion Control Valves (CMCV) are, what they do, and why you probably shouldn't remove them from your Mustang.
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[@Four_Eyes]

After years of working on this car and having it tuned multiple times, here's what I would say now: - Don't get the ford performance intake manifold if you are sticking with stock cams and are unwilling/unable to get a dyno tune. - The same goes for removing the CMCVs with delete plates (just not worth it without a dyno tune). - If you are boosted or going to be soon, definitely remove the CMCVs or get the ford performance manifold. The PCM on these 4.6 3-valves is fairly complex and sensitive to engine modifications. Sometimes mods can actually reduce power (like removing the CMCVs w/o updating the tune or using a canned tune!). Your best bet is to install a set of parts all at once (intake, manifold, cams, headers, underdrive pulley, etc), then get the car tuned. That way your Mustang is tuned for its specific configuration which will maximize gains.

[@sepg5084]

The charge motion control valves look like individual throttle bodies with a gaping hole on it at one corner. Can it be modded to actually work like ITBs, thus eliminating the need for the main throttle body?

[@elijahsellers3727]

Boosting includes supercharger, yes?

[@zink3040]

Another great option aside from the ford performance intake manifold is the Holley Sniper EFI Hi-Ram Intake Manifold. However its not worth it if your not boosting your mustang, but can make significant power if you have forced induction, and other bolt-ons. I think you can use the 65mm Cobra TB with a TB Spacer on it because the opening is 65mm, but I am not sure. However the Ford Performance TB also works just the same on it. Also when you have the Holley Sniper EFI already on it, then I think you do not need Steeda Delete plates.

[@flbizowner9384]

Hello Sir, so I understand correctly from this video and your comment. Is , I’m potentially waisting my month and actually loosing performance with the ford racing intake parked with throttle body and jlt intake and tune if it’s not cammed or boosted. If I have neither and leave it naturally aspirated with these upgrades only, then it’s counterproductive?

[@american_alien_1583]

I hear your voice when I read this

[@brianebert8606]

As a 30 yr engine builder and tuner, I can tell you that I did extensive testing on my '05 GT and can show that it is not the charge motion plates that make better low speed torque. Removal of the CMC plates actually makes power throughout the RPM range of the engine - about 5 ft/lbs down low, up to 10-12 ft/lbs @ 5k RPM. The loss of low speed torque you experienced was due to the slightly shorter runners in the Ford Racing manifold. Otherwise, your conclusion that the FRP manifold is really only beneficial for higher RPM engine combo's is correct.

[@3v_karimm]

So is it good to use the or not ?

[@nomehdrider]

@@3v_karimm I can't get the takeaway either, other than the charge motion plates didn't impact the tq, but rather the shorter runners in the Ford Racing.

[@WarriorOfEden3033]

​@@nomehdrider it depends on the application

[@lucasmullins5100]

Richard holdner has proven time and time again it's runner design! Long runner make tq down low and mid range while short runners lose tq down low and make more horsepower up top

[@HAL-dm1eh]

@@lucasmullins5100 I can't understand why Ford would spend so much money on something they wouldn't have researched extensively and deemed necessary. But, this does remind me of the IMRC (Intake Manifold Runner Control) design of my 02 Mustang 3.8 V6. It's the same concept and they are individual plates in the runners that open up the higher in RPM you go. But all that extra only produces a few extra down low tq and hp.

[@dailys1979]

I can't express how much I look forward to these uploads. The quality is spot on. This is great info comparing the intakes.

[@BlueOvalTavern]

I had Steeda CMCV delete plates on my old 3V with a proper retune for the deletes, and it was a fantastic mod for hardly any money. Picked up over a tenth and 1 mph in the 1/8 mile with no loss in under the curve power. Love your vids btw. My 06 was also Tungsten Grey and I still miss it to this day. Love my 2018 but I'll always have much respect for a proper 3V.

[@psychotrucker9880]

My dad told me sometimes it is best just to leave well enough alone. I built my old camaro to play with and enjoy my stock, dependable 5.0 with 20 mpg at 435hp. I have bottom end , top end and fuel mileage. The new technology is amazing yet complicated and expensive.

[@pedromaciel1732]

Nice work on the time and research! That spread sheet says it all, how much dedication and hard work will make your car sound, look and ride amazing. Keep on the great work, I'm very excited to see what comes next. Which is why I subscribed to stay updated on your build. 👌👌

[@LightningFast240]

the biggest problem isnt the manifold. its the bama tune xD

[@basketballphenom25]

That’s some facts man can’t make power on trash ass tunes lol

[@darkhoasi7k118]

@@basketballphenom25 😂

[@jake-rz9vq]

I know this is old but what's the best tune for 3vs?

[@LightningFast240]

@@jake-rz9vq Manuel pazo aka lito

[@jake-rz9vq]

@@LightningFast240 thanks man I just got mine not too long ago, and I heard he's in south America right? So how long does it take to get a tune and all?

[@LegionFitness52]

Man I'm so glad you made this. I've been debating these on my 3v for the last few years now, solid vid man!

[@goshdornit1355]

I love these videos so so so much, I'm starting my build on my 07' this summer so these are super helpful and very high quality. Keep it up!!!

[@GIGABACHI]

This is how you keep a steady audience . . . research, facts and numbers, NOT B.S like most of YT content. Good work.

[@100thomasmagnum]

Good explanations on the subject. I think it really comes down to what u plan to do with the car. Then adjust your mods accordingly. Nice, informative vid. Keep em coming.

[@bratpane1]

Wow, I was just about to do this mod today too. I installed the driveshaft last week, but today was going to be cold air kit, charge motion delete, and tune day. I guess I need to go turbo.

[@mictemplar8160]

For a guy who said is not a mechanic your are providing very good technical comments ! I was looking to buy and install the Ford Racing Performance intake manifold on my S197 but now I am seriously questioning this idea...

[@schmidtygt]

It’s worth it with a good tune and or supporting mods

[@CarsLife]

Great video brudah! I like that you are digging deep into the details in NA land. I think many folks do not realize that the power that you are going to obtain with forced induction is directly related to what you get NA. A 320 whp NA 3V will get about 640 whp with 1 atm of boost as compared to a 260 whp 3V getting about 520 whp at the same boost level. That's a big difference IMO. I'm glad I didn't waste my money on the ford racing intake manifold!

[@177SCmaro]

The valves aren't increasing back pressure. There is no back pressure in the intake (unless you have a supercharger and the back pressure, better known as boost, is created by the compressor). What the CMCV does is act like a small partial throttle valve, a deliberate restriction, which, if you call the venturi in a carburetor, increases the air speed which is what alters the charge motion and leads to better low rpm combustion, power, and drivability.

[@JoeHynes284]

I'm a chevy guy and really getting hooked on your channel

[@dcdc4336]

My man, your videos are top notch! Love your car, absolutly cannot wait for next video! Keep up the great work!!!

[@furiogiunta1451]

I would like to thank you for all you do. This is the only video I could find that explained this and it saved me a lot of time and money. So again I thank you and I am now subscribed.

[@Badger_S197]

I had the same experience with a ported 2018 manifold on a 2011 Coyote. The peak was higher but tons of power was lost under the curve. Unless you over-rev the motor, the benefits of such manifolds stay out of range. Turns out, Ford knows what they are doing.

[@chrisp7277]

Did you get a retune after the '18 install? I've seen average power levels go up on most of the data I've seen, but am curious about your experience.

[@NITROUSnBIASPLYS]

Interested to know who tuned your ported 18 manifold

[@Badger_S197]

@@NITROUSnBIASPLYS The car has been tuned by a reputable drag racing shop and I got a re-tune right away. It`s a Gen1 coyote, so the ported 2018 manifold is using lockouts. This means the actuators are gone and can`t be tuned, resulting in mid range power loss. It technically still made more power at 7000rpm (+2whp) and likely would have been able to make a little more even higher up. That rev range is not very useful for my application and lap times though and would be hurt by having less power from 4500-6500. With a give and take loss of -25whp and -30ftlbs compared to stock.

[@NITROUSnBIASPLYS]

And may I ask who’s ported manifold you were running? I have one I was planning on putting on my car this spring for a drag racing application

[@Badger_S197]

@@NITROUSnBIASPLYS I still think it`s a great piece for the right application and you totally can make it work with the right support mods. It`s just not the silver bullet it gets hyped up to and you need to be willing to over-rev the car to at least 7500. Drag racing is not that bad as you only spend brief moments in high RPMS. On road racing we spend 20mins constantly revving from 4500 to 7000 and that four to five times a day. Go figure why I`m not keen on revving to 8000. It has been ported by Bret Barber.

[@MrToasterPro]

Mine didn't have them when I bought it used, last owner removed them. After watching your video I went online and got me a a CMCV and now my car runs way better.

[@asadl95]

Love this channel!! Love the way you explain things man!! Hopefully you do more videos like this one!!

[@user-te3rt7dd4u]

Mate i'm don't know how you pumps out on my recommendation list, but yours content level outstanding.

[@UNTerminatorWR]

Amazingly explained just what I was looking for, great work bro and keep it coming thanks a lot

[@jonathanduncan8014]

Been waiting on that morning notification, love these videos !

[@inFamous2033]

I installed a similar setup in my 05 GT and I'm so glad I didn't buy de FR manifold now that I'm seeing this. I finally contacted a local tuner a week ago and got my car up to 307 whp and 322 lb tq. I have no idea what mod I should do next, tho. Guess I'll wait for your next stage video!

[@davidsalsedo6176]

Always dreamy of getting that ford intake. After this video I understand what proper build to use it for. Thanks for the info I'll probably hold off on that and put my money to other mods 👍👍

[@jmmustangs3078]

Great info and research can’t wait to see what the new tune does!

[@groove775]

Seriously another great informative video, can't wait to see Stage 2 video. See you around town.

[@1mrmcawesome]

You make great videos. I can't wait to see more and how your car turns out!

[@guynoir3116]

It's all in the tune evidently . I purchased a 19000 mi . 05 and it wouldn't do a rolling burnout in first gear , it had an off idle stumble and didn't pull in high gear at low rpm very well . I did a tune by Brenspeed with Steeda cold air intake , underdrive pulleys , and charge motion delete plates and on the test drive was very surprised at the difference in all driving conditions , especially on the pedal to the metal test in second gear at a low speed , which now broke the tires loose .

[@1234zcrom]

Great video - it helped clarify what I thought. Best to keep the stock manifold for everyday driving. I may go with the GT350 manifold eventually since that one has the CMCV, but you also lose low-end torque with that one.

[@kentkagle3850]

Wow.i was ready to order ford manifold for my 06 stang monster.Thanks for finding obscure article i never read amything about this.Awesome bro.Thank you very much.

[@anthonyaragon826]

Love the videos man! Keep it up. Awesome 3v content with great explanation!

[@seanfowler2560]

Thanks! I needed info on the cmcv because my wife’s mustang makes a horrible sound at idle sometimes and now I know it is the cmcv sticking open

[@brian.daniel]

Thank you for taking time to explain this. I was about to drop $750 on this on a stock motor with a CAI.

[@raymondcoffey7928]

So glad you are doing this. Single handedly stopped me from wasting money on a different intake manifold when going with my cams next. :) Thanks. I to have proper CAI, LT Headers, Offroad mid pipe, and go high flow catback exhaust with 93 bama tune. However, I am displeased with Bama tunes ability to clean up some items. I need to find a good tuner too..

[@blackdeath290]

Have a 17 GT350 Shelby with a flat plane 5.2 L with a procharger at around 6 pounds of boost, E85, Kooks long tubes and mid pipe. The car responded quite well when my tuner set the charge motion control valves wide open at all times regardless of the rpm or load.

[@cruzanity7478]

Who would've known it performed better without the FR manifold. I'm glad you are providing us all this information. Cheers!

[@schmidtygt]

Tune’s fault not manifold

[@sepg5084]

@@schmidtygt tuning won't bring back the lost low end torque when you install an intake that's designed for top end power. It cannot make up for the CMCVs, nor can it make up for the change in runner length.

[@lucasmullins5100]

The FR manifold is meant for RPM so with out bigger cans it's not Benidict Al it's not the intakes fault it's the wrong intake for his combination

[@TheModAddict]

Very informative.. cant say enough how awesome the content is..

[@daimyo_one]

Yes I completely understand. Part of the reason why I had to ditch the boss 302 mai on my 5.0 I missed the tq

[@3vshhnefty664]

Nice videos man, keep up the good work

[@hunterstraus843]

Interesting results. I gained about 8hp at the very top end with the stock manifold and CMCV delete plates (stock TB, steeda CAI). However, I'm also running a Lito custom tune (both pre CMCV and post CMCV) which may explain some of the difference. Anyways, great video -- looking forward to more content from you.

[@kurtharrison841]

I drilled out my butterflies and installed a gt500 throttle body with a lito tune i have to disagree with you my cars running like a raped ape.

[@1889michaelcraig]

Bro ive gotta admit. Mine looks badass but your is super clean which makes it look badass. Beautiful car man.

[@joefries365]

my favorite mustang on the internet... id literally pay for this mans content

[@chrisofelt6427]

Bought it before watching the video oh well looks like an excuse to buy camshafts now

[@tempestxmen7824]

Great analogy, interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

[@TP-ie3hj]

I appreciate the video great info, you clearly do the work, Thanks. Also love the fact that there is another person who wears a collar shirt and knit sweater when taking apart their motor! :) By far the best dressed mustang mechanic out there!

[@edwardzamorski3711]

Boy am I glad I watched this second video thanks dude

[@msm402]

Great info! Thanks for sharing. I'm running the Ford Racing intake and TB,Detroit Rocker cams,JBA longtubes and a 3 inch exhaust.One piece driveshaft,and 410 gears.With stock plugs and coil packs,it dyno'd at 365 hp at 6700 rpm's and 340 on the torque.It drives great,especially at the low and mid range for the street,and still pulls like a bear in the higher rpm's.Those Rockers were the ticket. Coming from someone who owned 2 Boss 302's and a Boss 351,my '06 GT is the most fun to drive compared to the other three.Good luck!

[@Four_Eyes]

Would you happen to have a picture of your dyno run? Would be interesting to compare charts.

[@msm402]

Sent you some stuff on FB...

[@green95gt]

I learned from many years ago during a college talk from a big three engineer (ford, gm, chrysler) how obsessed they are about atomization of fuel and the tumble swirl flow characteristics of an air fuel charge into the combustion chamber. They had plenty of evidence including some slick video of the phenomenon in action. Think of a diver jumping off a platform twisting and flipping at the same time, that is the tumble and swirl they speak of. Doing so mixes the fuel evenly with the air and atomizes the fuel into tiny equal size droplets like an aerosol spray. The better the tumble and swirl, the better mixed the air fuel charge is. The plates here introduce this movement into the airflow at lower engine speeds, and what this is what the old post is talking about. The analogy with the hose is correct as well, but that is only part of it. Kudos for you for not chasing peak torque and hp only.

[@geraldwalker1848]

Good information glad we got smart people in the world, keep the pedal to the metal👌👌

[@PatriotConsiderations]

Let me first start off by saying, VERY WELL DONE VIDEO, amazing content, and editing skills. I will however need to interject a few things. What software do you use? Adobe Premiere? 1. The ford racing manifold is designed to either (A) be run with forced induction or (B) be run with a more aggressive motor setup (stroked engine, aggressive cams, aftermarket valve train, ported heads) where people say "screw low end power" and build the engine to live in the top RPMs (3600-7500). Yes, a well setup 3v valve train with VCT locks can rev to 7500, stock valve train is safe for 6800. 2. The engine, heads, camshafts, manifold, and throttle body are designed to work TOGETHER. If running stock camshafts and valve train, you'll definitely see a loss of low-mid range power with the removal of CMCV's. Once you start getting rid of certain parts, obviously you'll lose performance in certain areas. The issue was, you didn't make up for any losses. With the addition of a more aggressive cam, 93 octane gasoline or E85/E98, and a more advanced spark with a good tuner, you'd be making HUGE gains in the top end that would make not having low end torque irreverent because you'd never spend time there. I hope this cleared things up. I love the content, please keep showing the 3v nation some love! Add me on instagram @Slow197GT

[@joshc606]

This was great! Thank you

[@robertperez1500]

Great videos and content. I have to mention though that for the 3v 4:10s are not drag only. They are great for daily driving and will help your cams tremendously. Stock 3vs come with 3:55s. American racing has a great video on 4:10s on a 3v. Even the host mentions that he was surprised at the drivability of the 4:10s on the 3v. Now if you start talking 5.0 then yes 4:10s cross into the drag only realm. On my 5.0 I have 3:73 but for my 3v 2009 gt I have 4:10s. You won’t regret 4:10s.

[@machinedintegrations3782]

4:40 love the sound. Lol

[@stachebrothersgarage1632]

Great video man!

[@philcroom3349]

Alittle confused because I've my research and found it helps and a dyno shop said it help alot and alot of peoples reviews they are really happy with the power they did gain from the intake!!!

[@Four_Eyes]

This manifold is fine if the car has cams and a dyno tune.

[@philcroom3349]

@@Four_Eyes I don't have cams but I do have long tube headers 410 gears and the guy that's going to tune it at the shop says I'll be fine and pick up some more power.

[@philcroom3349]

Talk to the same guy that tuned my car and your right. I don't just the other mustang shop that said I'd be fine so I'm going to get some cams intake manifold and throatle body. I can't wait. Thanks

[@carguy3028]

I went with a Roush stage 1 supercharger with the Roush tune because I had thought about going the N/A route, and decided it wasn't worth it. I know for supercharged applications the stage 1 is at the low end but it gets you more power than the N/A parts for about the same amount of money and no drivability issues. I didn't want to rev the engine higher and I didn't want to have to go into the exhaust because being in California I would be changing parts out every 2 years. It is funny the gen 1 coyote makes 420hp and 390 ft tq in factory form. When I started building engines if you got 400hp out of a street able engine you were doing great. I had a 500hp 383 that couldn't run power brakes due to no manifold vacuum, would over heat in traffic and it needed a bigger stall converter just to drive around.

[@nickg174]

Your videos are absolutely awesome... Thank you. I suspect there may have been a tuning issue with your stage 2 setup, specifically the one with the FR manifold. How confident were you in the tune? You probably know this already, but an intake with shorter runners (like the FRPP one) will have much better airflow at high rpm than an intake with long runners like the stock piece. In addition, I think it would be worth your while, and help explain things better to find out exactly how the CMCP's behave, i.e. their position in regards to throttle input, RPM, and load. Figure out the intricacies of the stock tune and your aftermarket tunes. The FRPP manifold didn't suffer where I thought it would most: low RPM. Theoretically, low RPM is where the CMCP's should do the most work and have the most effect due to the fact that air velocity is the slowest at low RPM. Super happy I subscribed and super happy for the next video!

[@Four_Eyes]

Some good points here. I thought the intake runners on the FRPP were longer as it sits about two inches higher. Do you have a source for this? I am not confident in the tune, but am not confident in the others either. They were all canned Bama tunes. We tweaked the one for the FRPP a bit and were able to squeeze out another 5 hp, but I figured comparing stock Bama tunes only was more fair. The most scientific approach would be to get another custom tune by the same guy who just did it (car is making quite a bit more power now) with the FRPP installed and compare the results. Maybe I'll do that maybe not... it's another $500 and another evening spent swapping the mani. And thanks for the compliments, much appreciated.

[@nickg174]

If you search "Three valve intake Manifold test-Three's a crowd" on google you should find some information on it. The FRPP one is taller simply because the runners are less curvy than the stock manifold. I guess think of it as intake runner length does not equal intake manifold height. Looks can be deceiving haha. And interesting about the tune. It stands reason to believe that the more modifications you put on the car, the more messed up (or incorrect) the bama tune will be, simply because there are more variables for them to account for (and sometimes they can't even get the simple stuff right!). TBH the only thing that seems "off" with your tune is the midrange. Generally speaking, people don't pick up much more than 5-15 wheel at around 6k with the FRPP manifold, which goes along decently well with your results. But, they also don't loose much low end, and sure as hell don't get the weirdly inconsistent midrange that you've got. Glad to hear the car is doing better now!

[@Lill9TEEN666]

Thanks for the second video my uncle almost bought that ford racing air intake after he seen your video he’s gonna keep the original

[@Four_Eyes]

unless he has full bolt-ons, aggressive cams, and is getting a fresh dyno tune, not worth it

[@gforce_117]

Good Video! Glad someone understands why Ford does what they do with factory engines! In short, if you are N/A keep em. If you are boosted delete them, it will make things more simple and they will restrict flow more than anything. I deleted mine with my Paxton hot rod cam setup and I am glad I did. Car feels smoother and stronger.

[@dakotadavis8159]

Garrett what throttle body did you pair it with?

[@uggamugga99]

Great video as always man, still hard to believe you don't have more subs! Sucks you had to find that out the hard way but glad you did, I was seriously considering the FR intake or the cmcv deletes myself. It might come in handy later though if you decide to go turbo. Keep up the good work!

[@allenslayton8694]

This is exactly why I haven't removed mine, I spray 100 shot on it and it's crazy with bolt ons and tune.

[@TheTriviumhead]

Everyone with the newer 5.0's always delete the IMRC (same thing as CMCV) when doing a 2018 manifold swap. Supposedly keeping the IMRC's causes problems, but I kept mine and have ZERO issues. I think people aren't hooking the pigtails/vacuum lines correctly and that causes those problems. Which is why some people have issues and some do not. I followed VMP's install video exactly and that's probably why I had no issues.

[@JustinAlanW8]

So glad I came across your channel! I want to stay NA in my 08 GT and have been eyeing up that FRPP intake manifold for a while now. This has me completely convinced to stick with my stock manifold, just add the TB maybe and most certainly the LT headers and 1 piece drive shaft. Quality of the videos is A1 man, your exhaust video was on point... all the different perspectives really helped me decide what to do with my build. Keep it up!

[@Four_Eyes]

Thanks Justin. I think about 80 - 85% of my power gains are coming from the headers and x-pipe alone. I felt a large difference after getting them installed and then another noticeable difference after a custom tune. Also, I'll be maxing out the car on an NA setup first.

[@kostassarakinos3062]

I like your vids man I have the same car like you I have many mods... I deleted my plates on the stock manifold and I didn’t notice a huge difference but I am going with a Procharger soon so i deleted them when I was there!!

[@TheAnonymous1one]

Nice vid! Where is the link to the next video? I couldnt find it in your vid uploads. Thanks!

[@jorgeramos6981]

Wow this is eye opening I really thought the cobra jet intake manifold was the best for improved performance except as you gave your explanation I couldn't help but to think why didn't he upgrade either the fuel rail or the injectors or both I mean what's the point in having a lot of air going and going out if you don't have enough fuel to mach ??

[@jordub]

looking into a mustang like this. Subbed!

[@Four_Eyes]

Thanks for the sub man, appreciated.

[@guitarman5051]

???? Wow!!!!!! I learned something from watching this today. Awesome videos !

[@CG_Element]

I keep going back and forth about whether I want this intake manifold or not. I have the frpp hot rod cams in the car which I know don’t add a lot of power but the car does feel significantly stronger above 5k. I want to build this engine as much as I reasonably can without boost (for now) so that will include long tubes and taking mass off the pulleys and driveshaft, but I really can’t make up my mind about the manifold. I know I’ll probably see better high end power with a proper tune but I don’t know if it justifies the loss in low end power

[@speedlife301]

Not always a ported msd picked up 30-35whp on a c6 zo6. I picked up 20 with my msd intake on my c7 and picked up the same tq and more under the curve and extended my usable powerband.

[@Spiritcr1jsher]

It's also a bigger motor......

[@lowslo9287]

If you’re not hoping for big numbers stay stock manifold if you plan to do a lot of bolt ons tune the car spray it or go boosted or even build the motor go after market manifold

[@GA08GT478]

Thanks for saving me money!

[@GIGABACHI]

EXACTLY. Very good point.

[@DrSloandog]

I did the same thing with my Dodge, I removed my stock manifold that had intake runner control valves and installed a really nice aftermarket manifold. It killed my torque. The car was terrible leaving the starting line. SOOO....back on went the stock manifold.

[@1991tommygun]

I put 4:10's, full exhaust, pulleys, frpp cams, jlt series 3 intake and frpp intake manifold, lito tune, bbk throttle body on my 3v and zero complaints, pulls like a train

[@jimbrow83]

How is your low end below 4k? Do you have manual or auto?

[@1991tommygun]

@@jimbrow83 my car honestly pulls like a train for what is it, i have no bottom end power issues. It pulls hard up top better than ever too

[@MrJrFish]

Curious if the findings (significant mid range torque loss) would hold true on the 4v Coyotes. The Boss 302 manifold (PN M-9424-M50BR) has always been on my wants list when I eventually get into looking for more power from my '14 GT.

[@jimbrow83]

Getting the line on the rail and the pcv on were the toughest imo

[@dalelockett2619]

Four Eyes....excellent video! Have always wondered about this, your video has helped to give some perspective. Looking at your dyno run analysis, I can see some similar patterns w\ my car ('09 GT w\ 4.6L running LT headers\HF catted X-pipe w\ Pypes SB MM catback exhaust running a Bama 87P V2 tune) as yours at the 2500-3000 RPM range as my car's power\torque flattens out in here as well as yours is under part throttle acceleration until she exceeds the 2800-3000 mark at which the torque\power just explodes upwards--may be indicating that the CMCV's are\were potentially not operating as they should be (which is what I believe is the issue w\ my 4.6L-either got CMCV controller issues or CMCV shaft binding as when the power\torque surges occur at the RPM ranges I mentioned on my car I am holding the TB at an assumed constant part throttle position so either I a.)have a wayward TPS helping to cause ECU miscalculation at the "stated" TB position or b.) faulty CMCV system)--should be a much better power\torque transition curve to CMCV FO w\ the OEM tune\stage 1 Bama 91 tune (as was shown in your dyno run 3 w\ the new OEM IM w\ new CMCV controller install) & something hasn't been accounted for in the same RPM range in the Stage 2 Bama 91 tune w\ the Stage 2 FRPP Intake\TB install that is causing the same power\torque drop off at the same interval but isn't corrected\made back up causing the torque\power drop off to remain until later on as the CMCV's should be FO at 3000 RPM forward....which should remove them from the picture at that point. Funny you see the same pattern in the same RPM interval w\ CMCV's installed\operating vs CMCV's removed\assumed accounted for in tune.....but far worse w\ stage 2 parts..... This screams tune mapping issue as well IMHO. Also which tune did you use w\ the new OEM IM install....the original OEM stock tune or the original Stage 1 Bama 91 tune (either should have the CMCV's active in tune)? Didn't catch this during your video..... Gonna be interested to see your dyno results of Stage 2 after custom tuned as I believe you have already alluded to some type of correction that affected the outcome. I myself am also getting this FRPP intake manifold for my ride as I have already decided to go w\ a centrifugal SC for mine (Paxton NOVI 2200 HO w\ intercooler) so the expense wouldn't be wasted but am also gonna test by keeping the OEM 55mm TB then use a TB spacer to kinda create the deltaP effect to increase air velocity into the IM plenum area to kinda recreate the effect to some extent to see if this can be made up in the IM runners AND get a custom ECU tune to specifically match all up. Got some datalogging to do! Good stuff! Keep up the good work!

[@JustinAlanW8]

Interested in seeing what results you get with the TB spacer. I have a very similar setup, but added the 62mm Twin Blade Throttle body.

[@robertvonherndon1921]

Nice work documenting your progress. Would like to email you about a current S197 build project...

[@jimbrow83]

Well installed today everything went smooth other than a tb bolt snapping 😡 loaded the Bama tune didn't notice any low end loss didn't get on it to see if any high end gain

[@Four_Eyes]

Nice work! Cutting that fuel crossover line is no fun.

[@americanosbadassius9292]

Cutting to the cammed out blue Vette was freaking hilarious! We do love the imagine our rides in those elevated positions, don't we?

[@michaeljohn7405]

Ford recommends CNC port and polished heads with a 3way valve job. Along with there cams. They got 50hp gain with the intake manifold but it doesn’t matter we all just circle back and save up for coyote’s

[@Tomtom62]

Great video, thank you. When my intake cracked on my 05 CVPI, I bought what I thought was a stock intake but after seeing the stock intake that you have with the little doors on the bottom of the intake I'm thinking I got screwed cuz mine didn't have them ??

[@waynebollentin989]

Applications is everything. If its mostly normal driving stay stock. If you wanna race and have other mods it's a benefit. Also a custom tune makes a big difference between part selection tunes.

[@codysimpson6744]

Awesome Informative Video!

[@Four_Eyes]

Thanks dude. Watched your videos. You have a ton of potential. Great personality and the video you posted yesterday is a solid how-to. I definitely learned some things. Look forward to more - subbed.

[@codysimpson6744]

Four Eyes I appreciate it dude! Looking forward to the future of both our channels! Definitely need to put out some great content like you!

[@s197_stellar9]

What about centrifugal superchargers like Vortech? They’re like a turbo design that sits on the front of the engine

[@MrMurph111]

I'm glad I'm not wasting my money on any of these "upgrade" parts and going straight to a supercharger. Just bought a used Magnuson MP112 for a 4.6 3V for $650 with the lower intake, throttle body and 39lb/hr Ford Racing injectors.

[@Four_Eyes]

That's a steal.

[@MrMurph111]

@@Four_Eyes I know it, wish I could send a picture of it, I'm still in shock.

[@carstuff4u942]

Very good information

[@Awackypenguin]

The garden hose pressure increase isn't due to some pressure differential with the outside air. It's due to the venturi effect. Nothing to do with air pressures.

[@MychalGG]

I had same mods except I had stage 2 comp cams and I put 336 hp 329 tq C&L cold air Ford racing intake manifold Mac long tube headers Mac off road pro chamber And bbk throttle body

[@MychalGG]

It really does help if you’re cammed and have gears. I also had 4.10 gears.

[@Spiritcr1jsher]

Yeah , I had an 05gt like that . 3800rpms at like 80mph and 15mpg highway. Ended up getting tired of it and got a coyote . If I could go back I would have saved the 1000s of dollars and just got a coyote to begin with.

[@saby8765]

very very good video!

[@livingfast2280]

if you want low end torqe you need itbs or just go with an old school root or twin screw style supercharger

[@rickynelson3222]

I heard some people having issues with the 62 mm throttle body plates hitting the stock manifold

[@flubdreload2818]

What’s your experience with the Ford Racing 62mm throttle body? In terms of N/A, is it really worth the $600 or so in comparison to stock?

[@AdroitJake]

Thanks man!

[@warlock3055]

Very good videos!! This is my second 3v mustang build. you can see my old one in my videos. I did have the fms intake and large throttle and hot rod cams. to me the intake was a waste of money. i didnt see my gains . looked awesome. My new build i was thinking on removing the CMCV and add throttle body . and already have the Air raid cold air. So you are saying if i do remove the CMCV i will be hurting myself ? I will be doing down the line to put in the hot rod cams again. I did love the sound. Help me out with some feed back please. Thanks agin for your videos on this Years mustang .

[@Four_Eyes]

Thanks Mike. So the CMCVs can be removed if you have a good tune, and in my opinion the best way to do that is on a dyno. That way you can be objective about the car's performance. If you remove the CMCVs and continue with the same tune, the car will definitely make less power.

[@christianfleming5336]

Did you keep the new throttle body when switching back to stock intake manifold?

[@matthewrud1911]

The intro to this always reminds me of Charlie from Always Sunny in Philadelphia.

[@TheBanomanew]

Man just contact comp cams and get a real tune from a tuner...a custom camshaft can give you more low end, there are different grinds to camshafts...not to mention having an intake and exhaust set up to match your goals....exhaust primary tube lengths and diameter can change more than you think...good luck man and good vid