Francis Fukuyama in conversation with David Runciman - Democracy: Even the Best Ideas Can Fail

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In 1992 American political scientist Francis Fukuyama shot to worldwide fame with the publication of 'The End of History and the Last Man'. With the fall of the Berlin Wall, pro-democracy protests in Tiananmen Square and a wave of democratic transitions in Eastern Europe and elsewhere, Fukuyama argued that History, in the grand philosophical sense, was leading not to communism as the Left had asserted, but to liberal democracy and a market economy.
Professor Fukuyama came to the Intelligence Squared stage in September 2014, where he squared up with one of Britain’s most brilliant political thinkers, David Runciman, to assess how democracy is faring in 2014. We certainly haven’t attained the rosy future that some thought Fukuyama was predicting: authoritarianism is entrenched in Russia and China, in the last decade the developed democracies have experienced severe financial crises and rising inequality, and Islamic State militants are wreaking havoc in Iraq and Syria.
Runciman agrees with Fukuyama that in the realm of ideas liberal democracy doesn’t have any real competitors. But that doesn’t mean it’s the only option, he believes, and even the best ideas can fail. Take the Arab Spring where democratic hopes have largely come to nothing. While Fukuyama argues that we should consider the long view - it’s easy to forget that the European revolutions of 1848 took 70 years to consolidate - Runciman worries that we may not have enough time for the long view in a fast-changing world.
Is religion becoming the new politics? How will the technological revolution continue to impact our politics? And in the West are we in danger of becoming complacent about the challenges to democracy that we face?

[@chenwang3010]

John Adams, our second president, wrote: “Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself.”

[@chloroxbleach8506]

Our president? You aren't american you are a chinese communist. democracy isn't bad if it was your people would be shot in the streets already. And it is definitely better than communist run societies are better it's why rich people there live and send their kids to live...in democracies

[@ab-ul1yz]

Chen Wang I'm sorry for the insults against you. Indeed, that quote is interesting: the combination of democracy, human rights and constitutionalism might have given something that John Adams had never seen.

[@qingwei6970]

@@chloroxbleach8506 Chinese government is not communist, it once was called itself communist, it's practice' now has evolved to something else, but it still called it communist. What ever it called,which doesn't matter. like many thing in this world. Things evolved away from the original.

[@bobbarkeriii2597]

He said that in 1784. And the democracy has somehow persisted.

[@bobbarkeriii2597]

@Nigel1048 Agree, how would he know that democracy would die. He was completely wrong. Democracy grew stronger as the ideas of the French Revolution lead to universal suffrage (the vote) for everyone in the developed (rich OECD) countries. Despite its recent glitch in Hungary/Poland, etc., democracy is stronger than it has ever been.

[@MrTheWaterbear]

As a Biology Strudent, I often forget how significant and relevant the sheer amount of knowledge and perspective being mingled about with between people such as these experts truly is. I have a father who works with politics and legislation, and I've had a very International upbringing, living in North America and Europe. I'm Danish. And in Science terms, the Technocratic Society is translated to the "Revival" of Inductionalism, and why it is not Science. it is an important tool, but is not to be the basis of Scientific practice.

[@sensenomaking]

Runciman's point about a technocratic antipolitics (perhaps best encapsulated in Bill Gates and TED talks) is a really keen point.

[@ceebacookingpot8103]

Democracy in America is being tested. America is a young society (Note: an older democracy but a relatively young society and culture). And if they could stop panicking and calm down, all will be well - otherwise, this panick will ultimately affect the rest of the world in more challenging ways than we can manage; including the speed and types of technology! So just calm down - already!!!

[@garymorgan3314]

"For evil to triumph it is necessary only for good men to do nothing." Edmund Burke.

[@lizgichora6472]

Thank you very much.

[@edward6297]

Don't assume what others want. I left china for Canada 20 years ago when i was 30 years old. I know both worlds a little bit. I am still in close contact with family members, old friends, and schoolmates in China. I am pretty sure that most Chinese don't want the western democracy which is so inefficient. Things can be in done in China 10 times faster. I am not exaggerating at all, actually being conservative. I also don't like that most westerners like to be self righteous and meddle others' affairs. HK is an example.

[@qaz120120]

Democracy: Ruled by/for the nation. In that sense, China is more democratic than the vast majority of the world.

[@qaz120120]

Here is a chart of how democratic each nation thinks it is.daliaresearch.com/blog/democracy-perception-index-2020/

[@koroglurustem1722]

Something bigger than 2008, how about 2020 ? Will it change anything ? 🤔

[@eab83]

Huge applause to the Swiss woman for bringing up the Swiss Democracy!!! I couldn't believe that these two intellectuals were blithering on as long as they were about Democracy without so much a glimpse in the direction of Switzerland. Absolutely appalling! Other than that there were some interesting points - but leaving Switzerland out of the discussion is just plain weird.

[@cigh7445]

Yup! Switzerland, the only country where people have true democracy

[@spadeysay6846]

End of the day, if the government works, then it is a good form of government.

[@bennguyen1313]

Regarding 'Chinese Democracy' after the 54min mark... Would have loved to hear their thoughts on whether or not the American middle class is disappearing (as many, like Elizabeth Warren) suggest, or is it instead not a collapsing middle class but rather a growing upper middle-class. Perhaps it's like Slavoj Zizek suggests that capitalism is becoming less dependent on democracy.

[@christiansjoling4840]

So can you have a political system that has rule of law and accountability but is not a modern stat? If yes what country?

[@MAOmar-go1oh]

When Francis and David spoke of the need to invigorate politics, they hit the nail on the head on this one, because two years later Donald Trump came to power and overturned the normal order of things. A fascinating debate I would say. Hope Iq Squared will continue to bring heavyweight intellectuals to debate and discuss the state of the world.

[@MAOmar-go1oh]

@kick rrr Shut up pleb.

[@jnbalmer448]

Considering brexit and the trump campaign, their predictions couldn't have been more right. Right wing populism is growing

[@deathstreaks]

at 25:00 , Why is Italy more appealing than Sweden? Apart from the weather/landscape/history, I can't really see any advantages, especially fro ma point of view of freedom, the economy/welfare, which is what he was being the primary focus point for a good country'/working democracy?

[@willisfamily865]

I think he really is just speaking about his personal taste. The weather/landscape/history is pretty awesome.

[@bosnbruce5837]

"Apart from the weather/landscape/history,"???? and apart from food, opportunity at healthy living, relaxed easy going atmosphere, apart from enjoying morning espresso at an outdoor café in sunny piazza... WTF else is there?? Fresh fish, domestically grown meat, fruits and veggies alone are enough for me. Italy is top!

[@ab-ul1yz]

Bo's'n Bruce I'm Italian and I'm giggling... But don't visit Florence in July, the heat is excruciating.

[@yananneteoh9818]

Would've been more meaningful if they remember to include a deconstruct of the current state of democracy in the UK!

[@yananneteoh9818]

Why don't they. show some data and compare what the American type of two party democratic govt have done for their country and people in comparison with all the amazing things the govt of a one party meritocratic democracy govt of China?

[@yananneteoh9818]

What about the Democracy hijacked by the military that never stop making wars? Democracy is over-rated without evidence of great govt. or civilisation Instead, democratic countries started all the wars!

[@georgecarenzo3890]

Unfortunately, and all too often with debates like these, they fail to take a humanistic, psychological, and even existential approach in discovering a greater awareness for a better democracy. And if there is one serious problem with it, it is our insatiable desire for consumption, greed, waste, and a disregard for the evolution of humanity. We can't do this as long as capitalism and all its inherent problems, continues unabated. We don't have capitalism, it has us and it controls us accordingly all the while our problems here at home and abroad only get worse.

[@michaelnguyen4784]

Gee Cee could you explain what you mean with examples or deliberation? im very curious but im not entirely sure what you mean but keen to learn something new

[@tsriftsal3753]

A grand debate over democracy between two people actually agree on the ultimate goodness of democracy -The very form and participants of this debate reveal the stiffness and inertia of the liberal democratic West.

[@chloroxbleach8506]

Still better than the "debate" you get in a communist run ghetto

[@billy-joes6851]

We'll teach you how to love our democracy .

[@luismariaguerrero431]

Democracy is obsolete. We have to evolve into an Optocracy

[@oliverjamito9902]

What is time is for? Many will say you God will always sit in your throne! And not know my suffering down here. LOWEST of the LOWEST the Child is sitting upon the LOWEST sits indeed.

[@lawlkekbur]

I think the discussion would have been more interesting with someone like Hoppe, David Friedman, or the ghost of H.L. Mencken speaking against democracy.

[@z0uLess]

or socrates ;D

[@rayl3575]

I think these 2 need to rewrite their books after 2020.

[@morrisfamily7707]

The elites as society calls them is rather insulting The people i would rather call it. Name the person that is most helpful, what is the point, there is no point. The invisiblble Hand, The gods, the people that are humble i salute you, i wish i prey for humility.

[@billy-joes6851]

"Russia is absurd " lol good point.

[@chloroxbleach8506]

Russia = running dog for chinese communist

[@jamesstmanhattan]

This has aged superbly well

[@jifa17]

Isn't he the guy that wrote the book "The end of history"? Reality hit him hard, really hard.

[@bechirannabi7050]

one piece is better

[@ipdavid1043]

Fukuyama was a failed scholar

[@yananneteoh9818]

He's making propaganda!

[@ipdavid1043]

@@yananneteoh9818 totally agree with u

[@fallen0851]

I agree with Fukuyama that American Government today does not exemplify efficiency, nor likely has it ever done so. This is a completely banal statement, but we should be reminded that it was specifically designed that way. The closest model of republican government that the architects of America worked from was classical Rome. A cursory understanding of Roman history before the empire tells us that efforts at reform were resisted at every single step by the traditional authorities, and this was regardless as to whether it was political, military, land reform etc. The Founding Fathers accomplished exactly what they set out to do. I can only speculate, but given the high premium many of them set on virtue, I imagine they thought no matter how intractable the task of governance became that the officers of the nation would see to its best interest. I'll leave the question as to whether we should possibly re-evaluate the Constitution in the air, but we must all insist that government, no matter where it may be in the world, without virtue is a recipe for decay and disaster.

[@docaz9453]

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