The Return of History and the Death of Democracy, with Peter Frankopan and Kwasi Kwarteng

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Filmed at the Royal Institution of Great Britain on 7th September 2016.
25 years ago, with the fall of the Berlin Wall, the future looked rosy. Liberal democracy, freedom and individual rights were on the march, triumphing over tyranny and repression. The end of the Cold War had brought an end to history, declared Francis Fukuyama. A quarter of a century on, that sunny picture has clouded over. History has come bouncing back, says Peter Frankopan, the Oxford historian and author of the bestseller, 'The Silk Roads', a major reassessment of world history which has won ecstatic reviews across the globe.
We are living in a time of transition. Migration, religious fundamentalism and climate change leave many of us anxious about the future. So too does the rise of China, the re-emergence of Iran, the actions and posturing of Russia and a Middle East that seems fragile and volatile, where the dreams of the Arab Spring have turned to despair, as conflict rages across north Africa and the Middle East.
How should we best understand what is going on - and how do we prepare for the new world that is emerging? In June 2016 Frankopan came to the Intelligence Squared stage to put these questions into an historical perspective. He was joined by politician Kwasi Kwarteng, a rising star in Westminster, whose books on the history of empire and on finance have given him a rare perspective on global change and on the ways the West has engaged with other parts of the world, sometimes as he sees it with disastrous effect.
Frankopan and Kwarteng examined the rise of Asia and asked whether we are entering a new era where Europe is becoming not just less important, but potentially irrelevant. They also looked at the lessons that can be learned from the recent and not so recent past. As Frankopan argues so powerfully in 'The Silk Roads', history looks very different when viewed from different perspectives. The rhythm of change that we find so unsettling today has characterised previous centuries and is not only unsurprising, he claims, but actually predictable.
The globe has rotated towards the West for the last five hundred years. Now, as Frankopan explained, it is turning east, towards the new Silk Roads, largely funded by China, that fan out in all directions across Asia. Is it closing time in the gardens of the west, as our old comfortable democratic assumptions - and our comfort - fall prey to a world order that is changing at terrifyingly quick pace?

[@lalitharavindran]

I regret not discovering Peter Frankopan earlier. What an intelligent, articulate and deep thinking guy. And so handsome! 😊😊😊

[@timsanders9266]

That's right, sure

[@bobbijones9334]

I live in Oxford and have plotted ways which I could sneak into Frankopan's lectures, but I'm too old to blend in. Read both his books and listen to his talks when I can because I cannot begin to understand what is happening in our political world without learning the non-homogenized historical past.

[@TilveranWrites]

Hmm, well it killed an hour and a half. Actually a nice cultural eye-opener for me growing up was the Eurovision song contest. Now it's resources such as KZbin and Reddit. Even Weibo is easy to sign up for, really it's so easy to dip into other cultures nowadays. School history just gives you an essential starting point, which is, something about yourself and the roads of your ancestors. Curiosity to look further afield takes over from there, which is why curiosity should be encouraged.

[@nanahamilton1101]

Wonderful discussions 👏

[@lotfiabdel7942]

Sure...Sure... ...That's right! Sure...Sure... ...That's right! Sure...Sure... ...That's right!

[@tomdearie2279]

sure

[@hollistertr31]

sure... sure... that's right...

[@jrbconsultingassociatesltd2585]

Should history be determined by events that lead to qualitative change or those with quantitative significance behind them...

[@saveliananyanga5241]

Quantitive significance... awareness which is growing exponentially is a key factor that affects how and when we react to any historically significant event.

[@guest353]

Interesting to come across this video, was there something interesting happened to that interviewer recently about cash for access?

[@stephencyang6628]

Asia, China & India were there all along, only the discovery by westerners wasn't there before.

[@TheLivirus]

Did anyone suggest the contrary?

[@dragonfly1929]

AMERICA NOT EVEN DISCOVERED YET ...

[@robertholland8283]

Did he say democracy is the gift of prosperity?

[@davidwilkie9551]

Politics is a matter of techniques, Education about the selection of techniques.

[@Ozzer1992]

Wow. Very enlightening. This guy should become a politician - he would win my support based on his views.

[@duncanlgeoghegan6333]

That second button is a bit much

[@eidothea]

Which guy? The one who tanked the economy? 😅

[@mak7587]

What I noticed when I wanted to find history about France on KZbin there was very little information, but plenty of information on England, in particular the kings, Italy, Greece, America even Russia, but the only thing I could find on France was the French Revolution and Napoleon. I’m sure France had plenty of history, particularly their kings and wars with other European countries. I’d love France to do more English speaking documentaries.

[@cem9753]

One of the best Books ever! It will change the educational system!

[@aquious953]

The professional class haven't suffered the downside of neoliberal globalization. In fact, they have become fantastically rich selling off the econimic interests of average people.

[@excitingworld364]

Learning Russian really pays off! Smart guy.

[@lizgichora6472]

" If you don't have anything NICE to say about someone, Don't say anything". Perhaps, the time of Current Affairs has a New Review (The need to understand the Past in order to shape the Future).

[@CAP198462]

The man-spreading from K’wasi is epic.

[@johnnyblack2131]

Democracy startled to fail many years ago and people like myself have had enough of the stupidity of parliament playing games with our life's 🕇

[@pastyman001]

Parliament reflects a split viewpoint.

[@eldariskenderfranke4284]

@@pastyman001 parliament reflects the viewpoint of financial conglomerates

[@hermstudio616]

why are they so dismissive of genuine questions?

[@herodotus6235]

Herm Because it goes against the argument he is trying to pedal. Also, some of the questions are contemptible because they display the asker as someone who cannot see anything outside of Europe.

[@Icanbacktrailers]

He’s an arrogant prick

[@harrykirk7415]

These conversational things seem to convey nothing cogent or worth remembering sometimes. Two guys talking past each other. Maybe this is for fans of these two men, but not for someone just listening in and not particularly knowledgeable about the author or the politician.

[@taehyunjung8344]

A talented guy wants to set a universal theory to interpret current situation or persuade the others to detach from the familiar

[@brothernet]

at 37:00 the speaker was pressed on the issue of CHINA Rising, the answer was a.......

[@ralphrau]

Its a multi-polar world. AI and bio-hacking will matter a lot. Along with the ability to deal with global warming and the possibility of nuclear brinkmanship going awry.

[@ikeike2]

Maybe we should be Syrian?

[@Lori-xt2lf]

Kwarteng is right when he says "you are conflating a lot of things."

[@Kakatawaga]

What then is not conflated in the ocean of life?

[@ComedyJakob]

Why is history taught in your perspective? So weird. I often also wonder why Star Wars isn't told threw Grand Moff Tarkin's perspective.

[@zhouystr]

Frankopan interrupts way too much. Has the air of someone who's used to having others listen to his long winded commentary/opinions without cutting him off or offering counter-points. Oh wait, he comes from royalty. Silly me.

[@hootsmon]

Interesting points yet hearing 'One of the things I write in my book' ad nauseam slightly smacks of self-aggrandizement.

[@vaultsjan]

1:08:00 Russias state owned businesses benefiting the Russian society in the long run. Really? More like pension funds as long as raw materials can be extracted. Not sure what is meant by 'long run' but i wouldnt count it that.

[@brian345]

only two with norman...? sure sure sure sure sure sure thats right ..... nearly impossible to listen to because of that tiresome pratt.

[@robertewing3114]

Talking is the human condition. The human condition therefore has nothing to say except the four-letter word talk, right? Now, what is there to talk about that is most helpful to humans? Know thy self. Socrates may have lived in Athens where the human condition was highly regarded but he had more to say than talk.

[@vidjoe8320]

This Brothers lack of interview technique and his naked wrist makes this impossible to take.

[@rebeccachan3405]

Kwarteng is totally out of his league.

[@hori166]

Peter Frankopan seems full of himself and won't shut up. One of the themes of this "debate" is the value of knowledge over feeling. Kwasi brings a different kind of knowledge to the table, Frankopan's scholarly background may be of little use to solving anything other than convince a jury of his peers of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

[@itsquitntimeisrael6519]

Kwarteng may be out of his league, but from your name, I think it’s Chinese. Thing about Chinese is that I greatly admire your GREAT LEAP & the fact that China rose to power & prominence on the backs of its own people + its own ingenuity; BUT Chinese, like a lot of Africans, have such HUGE INFERIORITY COMPLEXES in the presence of white supremacist that it’s embarrassingly sad & very demeaning to China & the beauty of the GREAT LEAP struggle. The cure for that.... lol

[@herodotus6235]

Did this guy want to be a politician?

[@arborymastersllc.9368]

trump is not an example of a failure. he is an example of the people of the nation not having been educated well enough to utilize the law system with the appropriate wisdom to ensure that it was never required to choose such a polarizing figure. culture, and the uneducated and unhealthy minds and bodies that sustain it, rather than systematic structure of the constitution is the primary issue. Humans are not accustomed(biologically or culturally/psychologically evolved) to visualizing themselves with responsibilities within structures populated in large numbers, congruent with the industrialized democracies, that carry profound and deep consequences for everyone who is a member. Traditionally, human groups were far smaller, especially on the biological scale and not only recorded history timeline. Humans have not yet fully mastered this ability to endure the pain of disciplined action and pursuit on such a scale because daily considerations fluctuate most clearly across their minds, and behavior is thus guided and the behavior and composition of politicians and political motives and behavior reflects reflects that trend. Additionally, food manufacturing processes and processed foods, heavy abuse of scientifically addictive food, lack of exercise rituals and value, deindividuation from blue collar job structure in growing capitalist conglomerate structures, criminalization of marijuana, and lack of a sophisticated understanding of how the world works at all or of historical development of modern trends and state of things all contribute to the problems of the day among others. It is not democracy itself. Thomas Jefferson was not wrong, but neither was John Adams.

[@freddibnah1830]

Peter forgets that the times when Britain was great the people died at 24 years old, very great for a tiny few, Britain has never been great for its people

[@JenTheCanadianHen]

Someone needs to do a bad lip reading. The body language... Hahaha

[@_starter]

Kwasi ruined this conversation with his muttering, constant interruptions and directionless ramblings.. Its a damn shame

[@_starter]

A damn damn shame. Hope you have upped your game dude

[@kelwang446]

Absolutely!

[@markthomas9434]

@iqsquared is it possible to edit out Kwasi? He made this clip unwatchable. Managed to get to 1:10 but can't get further.

[@thegoodthebadandtheugly579]

I still can't forgive him for shooting his wife.. Johansson was so much better than his English wife..

[@jasonaus3551]

Steven Pinkers new book dismantled the whole lower living standards and rising inequality quite effectively.

[@sabinak8182]

Peter took him down really well - well done - Jeremy paxman 😵‍💫

[@sanjabogdanovic7532]

Why does Frankopan always leave two shirt buttons unbuttoned?

[@MarickThompson]

He's from eastern europe and that style is common along with men wearing necklaces and multiple rings.

[@sanjabogdanovic7532]

Marick Thompson but he is born in UK, isn’t he?

[@nicholasfrancis8381]

It is off putting, then there is the slouched man spread of interviewer. Also, does Frankopan have a cold? His sinuses sound blocked.

[@philltech906]

kwasin kwarteng is so out of touch with British values. He is not a Tory!

[@V12F1Demon]

Can't help feeling there is something 'missing' in this conversation. The use of platitudes, slogans, jargon makes it look more, a play on language than anything meaningful or concrete. Peter doesn't answer a question straight and his ideas aren't new. His central premise of history at the root of everything, 'standing on the shoulders of giants', is something Gadamer made popular.

[@user-rf3hf4qp2y]

Isn't diversity wonderful that Brits get to have a mp named KWASI KWARTENG!!!

[@minkleymcmoo5248]

I'm so annoyed that Kwasi is a reasonable intelligent and entertaining guy... Shame about his politics.

[@herodotus6235]

Asia is peaceful??? 🤣 Ghenghis Khan, anyone? The warlords of the three kingdoms period? This guy just talks balls, changing his argument every sentence.

[@suemiller7732]

insightful. Where do you teach? I'll come to a lecture

[@johnveitch7410]

Asia big.

[@pastyman001]

Do you understand the difference in tense between "is" and "was"

[@watson7042]

Wars during 3 kingdoms period were all China's civil wars (all 3 kingdoms claimed themselves as the legitimate empire the Han), None were other nations invaded by these kingdoms.

[@herodotus6235]

The point I was making was, Asian history is ingrained with violence to a level we cannot imagine - we think western history was violent! It is so repetitively violent that historians are too embarrassed to address it directly, instead writing "histories of Chinese civilization" that avoid the perpetual bloodshed in warfare, human sacrifice, and murder. Asia may be peaceful at the moment, but if you think you can forget 5000 years in a few decades you must be a fool. Violence is a part of Asian makeup.

[@SeanGhanbari]

He is neither a historian nor a think-tank but a salesman! Fukuyama responded to this guy in a one-sentence answer to a question. It's a shame for being unable to read the title of Fukuyama's book, the "History" with a capital "H" is not "history" as this guy built his entire argument 🤢

[@aperson7584]

Two stone-cold pimps ...

[@CaptainManic2010]

Thank you very much. The Venus Project....Zeitgeist.... there ARE other ways. they aren't perfect either...but they sound a damn site better than what's going on.

[@imageinkdesign]

Sam tron Zeitgeist is a fantasy which ignores the reality of God.

[@kieranocallaghan7667]

Kwasi keeps shutting Peter down with his muttering, bad interview! Kwasi, is doing this interview to put a spin on Peter Frankopan story on how the UK and west is headed for bad times!!!

[@ricop421]

Etonians

[@jakmere]

I didn't want to comment on it, but I can't help but notice kwasi's annoyance with Peter. Perhaps Kwasi should let Peter answer the questions that are directed to Peter.

[@Icanbacktrailers]

Peter spent the entire time cutting him off

[@RiaSwiftHealing]

Peter needs to learn how to shut up and listen. He does it very poorly.

[@robwalsh6548]

I really enjoy his books, but there were points where Kwasi Kwarteng was speaking and Peter Frankopan just spoke over the top of him. In my opinion it comes from his passion and interest in the subject, but it's rude and Kwasi was making good points.

[@OmarDaoudi_1234]

Very bad presenter. He keeps interrupting the speakers! He is really not great.

[@dragonfly1929]

THE WEST CAN NEVER EQUAL ,THE EAST UNLESS ,IT COMES TO UNDERSTAND AND CONSIDER THE WEALTH THEY HAVE INHERITED ,FROM PAST CIVILISATIONS ! LOVE THE PART LEARNING FROM THE SONGS OF THE PEASANTS ,IN ALL COUNTRIES ..

[@robingangopadhya2808]

strange: articulate people as these are just wasting time in mannerism. We are 15 minutes into the discussion. All I hear is brit mannerism of speech. Just get going folks. Do not bury people with your mannerism please.

[@rudy4361]

Would be nice if kwasi would lissen more and less interuption

[@charlottepembroke5446]

Kwasi dreadfully out of his depth intellectually here....

[@Grogster2007]

Oh God he speaks Arabic.........probably an Islamic apologist

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

LOL yes anyone who understands the language some terrorists speak has probably only learnt it to make excuses for them. I only learnt English as a child because one day I would have to justify my namesake Timothy from Oklahoma.

[@robwalsh6548]

Check out his books. He's not an Islamic apologist. He's an excellent Historian, I'm currently reading his book about the First Crusade, it's really well researched and brings in sources from all sides of the conflict.

[@Grogster2007]

I've heard enough thx