Free Diagnostic Time: Is It Worth It for Auto Repair Shops?

In this video, David and Lucas have a candid discussion about whether or not to give away diagnostic time at an auto repair shop to build customer trust.
They weigh the benefits and drawbacks of this practice and share their insights on when it may be appropriate to offer it.
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[@COBRO98]

If you bring a car into the shop, I don't care if it's for 30 seconds or 30 minutes. You should charge the customer a diagnostic fee and the technician should be paid for his time even if the customer refuses the service or nothing is found wrong. Literally every other industry does this. Every single day working in a shop you will see customers trying to get service for free, often times they are trying to get you to diagnose the problem for free so that they can have a family member etc, fix it. I've even seen little old ladies try to pull this scam.

[@Kevin-qn7jf]

If you're giving away Diagnostics, ask the diagnostic equipment distributor to give you free equipment.

[@kinglangren]

It’s so funny this is always brought up in the automotive industry but when the appliance guy comes out and has a $100 minimum charge to look at our appliance we don’t even question it.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Extremely valid point! It says something that employees who come from outside the industry say "I can't believe I have to tell people upfront there will be a cost associated or they think it's free....in my previous profession no one would even think that for a second".... What do you think that says?

[@MrJoey1570]

The difference is the appliance tech is coming to your house,do you do house calls?

[@nservice1625]

Everyone has to charge for their time. I can't think of any industry that doesn't charge for their time. There are plenty of shops and mechanics that don't charge properly. They don't last very long. At the end of the day, the bills need to be paid to stay in business.

[@mikehenderson229]

@@MrJoey1570 I do house calls, but only when I'm doing a repo.

[@CyesH-we6oo]

@@MrJoey1570 Does the common appliance have several CAN Bus where half of those modules require half the car to be torn apart to diagnose? If you only knew that a lot the time some random module (THAT IS NOT RELATED TO THE ENGINE WHATSOEVER) could just kill your car and provide little to no clues as to the culprit module...you would pay that $100 and be very thankful. There is a reason why a lot of Automotive techs will tell everyone to be anything but an automotive technician. . .

[@isorozco511]

The free diag is what made me give the last dealers I worked for the middle finger. Just “looking at it” or making a free tech line call or some bs made me realize it was time to move on. This industry is pure ass.

[@thisisausername1265]

Get the diag approved FIRST! If you pop the hood for a coolant leak issue, and the upper hose is blown off maybe we can decide if we're charging since it's blatantly obvious. But the default is charging for expertise and time spent. Unless a lube tech could pop the hood and have the problem staring at them and "diag" it, it costs money.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

I agree 100% - there's some variables for us, but we're pretty much right in line. "Every light in the dash is on, the warning lights are lit up like the crack of dawn" might be a situation where we approach it with a scan to determine the best route forward. In that case I'll work extremely hard to educate the client about the process.

[@COBRO98]

That's why you charge a flat diagnostic fee to even pull it into your shop, tell the customer upfront it will be in example "$45" to verify an issue, even if it takes a matter of seconds it shouldn't matter you should be paid for YOUR TIME.

[@gainerman]

Let's take a moment to honor the guy that invented the diagnostic dice . Sold on worldpac for 20 bucks and worth every penny

[@MrSuperchargedv8]

The guy with a key issue knew exactly what he was doing…he wanted your shop to diag and he was going to repair. It is VERY common. Thats when you tell him ok no prob…put him on a dont do business list or be aware list and move on to acutal customers that dont play games. Any car that comes in has a diag fee where applicable.

[@ScannerDanner]

Keep it up guys! Great video

[@haizi7179]

My guy

[@asewamu]

“Free” types of any inspection can often attract clients purposely shopping for lowest price work. Setting yourself up potentially for a lot of time wasted on the phone to then get work approved. Charge appropriately, provide excellent service and a well documented story of what was found and what it takes to fix. I’m a little bitter on the subject being a big majority of diagnostic work I get has been bounced around shop to shop first. We then have to re-educate the customer how proper steps lead to actually fixing the issue and why we charge what we charge to make it happen.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

I agree 100% Next thing you know we're working back through 25 changed parts with an upset client because we have to not only verify the parts that were replaced and the workmanship thereof BUT we have to fix the original problem. Estimating a trans right now that's had 3 valvebody's, a wiring harness and a controller. And explaining to the client "the trans is smoked, gotta replace it THEN retest the control functions" is not a pleasant experience when their response is ALWAYS "I just spent $5000 on it! It couldn't be that" 🙄🙄🙄🙄

[@thesmuler5627]

This is why diagnostic should not be free. Everyone is a mechanic claiming “I can replace such and such in 15 minutes blah blah blah but when it comes to figuring out a car problem they throw a bunch of guess because they don’t even know how to diagnose and do not understand the physics behind what makes a car works or any electrical understanding. I have a customer who told me what is wrong with their car and told me to replace I said no I need to diagnose it and I charge 150 they said they already know what is wrong with their car so I said if they knew what was wrong then do it themselves or take it somewhere else I don’t work on car that was diagnosed by someone else

[@ronaldoquintos1675]

Also I never let customer watch me as I work. Specially electric diagnostic and repair. They will think I overcharged them because they do not understand that I gst paid for knowledge not too many technician posess. I charge 180 diagnostic fee whether I knew if beforehand or not. As far as Im concern if they knew how a car works why cant they find out and fix it themselves

[@Kevin-qn7jf]

Countertop diagnostic should be excised, train it out of employees at all cost. The instant a person performs countertop Diagnostics, it devalues or eliminates any value in diagnostic testing. Sell tests and procedures not Diagnostics.

[@FixtIt]

There was a certain major manufacturer that I worked for they didn't like to pay diag on warranty work. The rule was if we weren't getting paid for diag we were rolling the parts dice. If it takes not getting paid for diag he's getting paid to put parts on the car. That's just math.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

😬😬😬😬

[@thecardoc100]

So you tighten the gas cap and then "if" the light comes back on they should bring the car back. This is a window to the real problem. Every car should get the same level of initial testing, and the testing that was done to identify the problem should be repeated to prove that the problem has been corrected and where at all possible no other hidden problems remain. When we present our evaporative emissions classes we demonstrate how techs can perform the tests that the car runs when the evaporative monitor is running. Using a GM for the example, during the purge and seal test the car fails to pull enough vacuum on the tank an cannister. While that test is running is when the tech should try to tighten the gas cap. If that makes a difference there is proof that it was in fact "A PROBLEM". The tech shouldn't stop at that point. The rest of the monitors tests can be performed and whether they are going to pass or fail can be determined right then. If any deficiencies are found or if the tightening of the cap didn't allow the system to pull enough vacuum that would be known right away.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Bryan Pollock and I are debating this in a messenger convo right now. And know that I see the value in this approach. When surrounded by shops that would throw the gas cap on and say come back if it comes back on creates a bit of a conundrum. So the question is do we educate the shop or the client first? Which comes first, the 🐔 or the 🥚? A hard stance on something where ALL other show flexibility may result in reputation damage. Especially if the rest of the industry never catches on. That being said, there is no substitution for properly repairing the automobile.

[@thecardoc100]

@@ChangingTheIndustry As far as being the shop that sticks to the program and tests correctly while the others around it would just tighten the cap and wait to see what happened, I lived that for 20+ years. I can point to a number of events that went every possible direction from confirming that the cap was in fact loose and that there were no other problems (usually less than five minutes and I might not have even moved the car from where the owner left it) to just about every failure one could ever encounter. It all comes down to "You get one chance to fix it right the first time". If that is what you preach to the customers, then you (or your techs) need to practice performing a complete, disciplined routine each and every time, then the cars that are "different" don't turn into a trap for the shop and it's technicians. Consider that the majority of evaporative emissions problems can be diagnosed in under ten minutes and rarely is the smoke machine required, even if there is more than one failure. If it isn't normal for a given shop to be that efficient, then they need to get training and learn how to do that. If they can't afford the training or necessary tools to reach that level, then maybe they should stop doing free diagnostics.....

[@frankiev-tech4630]

Here's what I do at my shop. For new customers I make it a marketing on diag with levels. I do a first time free diagnostic depending on the style of problem. Let's say a complaint is air conditioning and they say the car is not blowing cold. I from the get do explain it could be a leak or electrical problem.What I tell them is I won't charged them for a preliminary visual and pressure inspection so you have them come by to get them through the door. That's when you use your charm and win the customer to get to know you and build a relationship. You give them options as far as what you find and give them a very fair price. It's a hit or miss at times but even if they don't like your price and go somewhere else. They come back...the next time you charge and say well you went somewhere else and price it right. They're going to trust you from that point. There's also shop jumper customers that I have to feel out as well. If I find they went to 100 other shops. I already know customers do that...I'll charge diag atleast 2 hours and the vehicle needs to be dropped off.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

You know, years ago I would've done the same thing. Looking back, I realize it put me in a bit of a corner. For one, it allowed me to forgo the training needed to become proficient at explaining the value of the testing process. Secondly, it created an environment where clients felt "slighted". They rarely said anything as they genuinely thought I was a nice guy, so I didn't learn about it until I started asking. Couple that with the fact I, over time, found myself spending more and more time on these "quick checks" - leaving less room for revenue generation. Now I realize what it's done to our industry as a whole, and try to refrain from setting this standard. Between clients expecting it to be free, seeing less value in the end result and feeling like repair shops often "bait and switch" I knew I didn't want to operate this way. I'm not trying to be disrespectful at all, and I understand your perspective, I really do! It's just I found it wasn't a good fit for me.

[@frankiev-tech4630]

@@ChangingTheIndustry yeah my point of view with it is just another way of a marketing strategy than paying for ads or commercials to avoid those expenses. Oh and the biggest one is Google searches. I'm the only shop in my area with 5 stars and over 50 amazing comments that are gold to me. You'd be surprised how many people find me that way and those testimonials mean a lot! The others like flyers costs way more and doesn't really work. Word of mouth, great customer service and work integrity has been the key for my area. Especially here in Miami where it's saturated of car repair shops that do general repairs. And after 11 years it's still a learning curve. It also depends on your market and reputation to not having to go that route. But yes I value my skills and experience to just giveaway at times.

[@bbaaspencer1]

Here is my issue with giving a free diagnostic. You spend 60 minutes and find the issue, then the customer Declines the repair, then pays the neighborhood mechanic $50 to replace the part. The neighbor mechanic couldn’t diagnose the problem in the first place and is why the customer went to a real ASE certified mechanic. The shop lost money! You will be out of business giving free diagnostic! I am retired and today I only work privately on vehicles no one can fix. I like the challenge and satisfaction of seeing people faces as they turn the key and no more check engine lights on the dash!

[@mikethemechanic7395]

Ran a side shop for 2 years. I only worked on 10 years and newer. Mostly BMW. Easy money. I offered free diagnosis for anything under 30 mins. That way I was able to charge retail price for the parts and pay wholesale. I took pics of every part replaced and offered the old ones. I had no problems. I advertised off OfferUp and felt mostly with house wives. I made a killing. I had free car pick up within 2 miles. I always had 3 weeks of work waiting for me.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

But you didn't actually run a business though? Did you have general liability and garage keepers? Information sources and tooling like ISTA? Did you offer a warranty on your service like the dealer or most shops between 12 and 50 months? Did you have a shop management system? Rent or mortgage?

[@mikethemechanic7395]

@@ChangingTheIndustry . No. I ran it out of my garage. I did not have to invest or spend money on rent. My house is paid off. I was offered a shop to purchase from a friend. Did not want to be tied down to a loan for a shop and everything else. I was eventually recruited to another shop. They gave me a bonus and they pay for my kids college. At 48. I enjoy most of the weekends off…

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Right... But what you did to advance yourself, put you at tremendous liability risk, and damaged the industry overall. We continually see techs who say the current compensation and benefit packages are lacking, yet in the next breath explain they've been doing side work for substantially less. The cumulative effect of the lower rates, no charge for diag and lack of liability coverage has been consistently proven as having an impact on the industry. Why wouldn't someone, if they wanted to do that, charge the same rate the shop was charging? Instead they trick the consumer (and maybe themselves) into thinking they are doing them a favor....

[@mikethemechanic7395]

@@ChangingTheIndustry . When I had my side shop. I took my time and never took shortcuts. I did it more for fun then the money. I had all rave reviews on Nexdoor. I am clean cut and drive nice cars. I took pride in everything. Every car I worked on even got a courtesy wash. Not even independent shops would do that. I took that idea from when I would take my M3 to get warranty work done on it. I know I was not the norm as far as side work mechanics. I know a lot of mechanics who were in California in the 90s when people from Mexico changed the flat rate system and made wages stagnant. I tapped into a market that no one else had. I charged 120 hr while independent shops charged 175-200 hr. I don’t blame anyone who wants a better deal for any work done. I almost went into Automotive in 2000. I met 3 guys in different shops that told me to do Fleet maintenance. I listened to them. In 23 years. I was able to purchase a house and 2 rentals. And situate my 401k and my career. I wish mechanic wages were better. Plumbers and electricians are not affected by side work. People just accept the rates. Not as much for auto mechanics. I became a mechanic because it was a dream of mine. You don’t go into it for the money. I dropped out of a Hydrology degree for it. A lot of guys make bad decisions in our field. I saw many get married and have kids while they were only in the field for a year or two. I made sure I had a house first and my career was situated first. Owning any shop is like playing the slots as far as I am concerned. My wife’s uncle owned one. It did very well. I have met others that were nothing but a headache. You don’t work Automotive for 401k and good benefits. I work for a Fleet. I get 401k and hourly wage and they pay for my kids college. I get unlimited overtime when I want. I don’t have to worry about racing to beat the flat rate clock. I get to do a job well done and take my time. Many Diesel mechanics wish they had my certs and skills. I have worked on Automotive and almost every faucet in the Diesel world. I still take classes and have a tire class and Allison class to go too. I have guys 20s-30s get offered to go to week long classes or take ASE certs. They refuse to or don’t care. I have a wife and kids and knock out every cert and class I am offered. Maybe mechanics are don’t care about their job. I work in cars on my day off. Even after 23 years plus. I saved a lot of customers money and quite a few hooked me up with killer deals on remodeling or AC house work.

[@mikethemechanic7395]

@@ChangingTheIndustry I had a business license and insurance. I only had warranty once in 2 years. I worked on cars 10 years and newer. It saved me from headaches. I did not need the money as much as my house and rentals are paid off. I did it for fun and to gain a reputation. I think auto shops rip customers off with charging for diagnosing cars that take 10 mins. I am glad I have helped changed this. 90 percent of my jobs were a easy diagnose. Since I specialized with BMW. I made customers know this btw. By the time I had a great reputation. No one questioned me about my estimates. I gave all of my old parts back to my customers. I only had one customer want to bring his own parts which I refused. My customers knew I paid wholesale for parts and they paid half way between retail. I also told my customers I would not rip them off like independent shops or dealerships.

[@kaywrench]

Time is money and if u have techs working for u its not fair for them to do free work.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

What if the techs are paid but the shop doesn't charge?

[@kaywrench]

@@ChangingTheIndustry Good point yes that works.

[@cdsfleetrepairs]

I don’t care what the vehicle came in for if makes inside of the shop then it’s getting charged, too many times good shops get taken advantage of, but hey that customer came to you for a reason, technically knowledge, experience and a skill set. I don’t remember that customer being there when I’m trying to make the light payment or when Mac, snap on, matco wants there money and there is some bloodsucker wants one of my technicians to tell them what’s wrong by listening or hook up the big machine lol, there is no big machine it’s called technical experience “it’s called a brian” lol. I used to be one of those guys, ego I’m a hero, I fixed it, look at me mentality, we all have gotten this virus “the ego” let it go, charge for any and all testing, when you open that hood, turn on the a/c, function test you are going to pay my techs period. That doesn’t mean being disrespectful to your cliental but communication has to be up front not after the test or repair has been made. Let them know your process what you expect from them for this process, it’s called time=money. hey doctors, dentist, plumbers, electricians, carpenters, lawyers they all get paid why not technicians. Shops cannot keep footing the bill paying technicians when the service writer or owners say don’t worry about paying it wasn’t or to difficult. What about schooling busted knuckles, bleeding hands sore back busted knees and so on getting to the customers problem. Sorry for the rant, sore subject lol. Great job guys keep the videos coming

[@MrJoey1570]

5 minutes with a 10$ code reader does not equal diag charges

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

I agree!

[@jeffco908]

Question. Take a vehicle both with exact same DTC and one tech with years of experience reads that code and knows what the problem is. Another tech in the same shop with much less experience reads the DTC and goes through the diagnostic process and comes to same conclusion after 1 hour. So he charges 1 hour diagnosis. Does the other tech charge less because hes more experienced? I have heard many say that less should be charged and i shake my head. Why is this industry one that the more you know the less you should make? Id love to hear your take on that. Oh and the intake tube example at the end, been there done that myself. Thats a no brainer to most, some not so much lol.

[@jacksgerman]

The fact that these guys spend endless hours producing this channel, and NOT in an automotive repair shop, says VOLUMES of working in the auto repair industry. They are knowledgeable, honest, professional, and are making great content here, but the problem is the Automotive Repair Industry is complete garbage for working in, hence why the talent is running away as fast as it can.

[@titusmartin3913]

You guys are awesome! Totally love listening to you!

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Thanks so much!

[@fishingmontana1564]

I feel like doing diag for free if you get the job for most cases if its a reasonable time frame if you get the job but if you dont get the job i think you should charger the customer and i would make them sign something before you start cause i am a cheap ass and still learning diag myself and if i didn't work in a shop and was broke and they said free diag i would take it there and have them tell me whats wrong and then just fix it myself

[@TheGb50]

If the purge valve is bad, it could cause p0171. What are we going to throw parts at it to find out I don't work like that

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Sometimes all you have is "all available evidence" and based off that, you make a call.

[@nabilsrouji6132]

I’d like to share my input on the diesel engine diagnostics you walked us through - I was a main shop Caterpillar supervisor but I’m a licensed auto tech with mostly Land Rover experience…, in that situation the first thing I would do is cut open the engine oil filter. Given the cost to replace that engine, why diagnose anything or disassemble the engine if the oil filter is full of metal. This method can save you/the customer on additional diag expenses. The decision maybe at that point to replace with reman including reman injectors always 😊. Just my thoughts. Love the discussions, new to it all.

[@nabilsrouji6132]

Forgot to mention how overlooked cutting open oil filter is in automotive, it was a regular thing in heavy equipment…

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

For sure! That's a really valid point! Often, automotive consumers are more apt to say "let's take a gamble" 😬 A heavy equipment or OTR owner is more aware of the cost of such a decision - not just in repair cost but lost revenue and transportation.

[@steveramoso962]

this makes my heart aches being mechanic as if they always lowball me and wanted checks and diagnosing on car why its making this kind of noise and low power etc. for free compared to plumber/ electricians and appliance tech they dont complain with 100dollar minumum check or just clogged filter..

[@joeandgod1]

It depends on what you're diagnosing. If you're diagnosing bad rotor's that's one thing, diagnosing a parasitic drains is another. The diagnosis of the parasitic drain is the main job in itself.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Even brake evaluations should be charged for in most scenarios (I don't charge if they approve repairs while it's still apart). Think about it, I'm measuring 8 brake pads, 4 rotors in three places, brake fluid moisture and copper content, inspecting brake hoses and metal brake lines anywhere I can see them (and some places I can't), I'm checking for runout, I'm interrogating the ABS controller and I'm verifying the caliper moves freely, the bleeder moved freely and all of the hardware... That can't be free...

[@isorozco511]

Diag time is diag time no matter the issue. Learn how auto repair works before saying it “depends” on anything

[@joeandgod1]

@@isorozco511 I agree, charge for all diag time, you misunderstood my point.

[@joeandgod1]

@@ChangingTheIndustry Yes, charge for all diag time. I was just making the point that diagnosing a parasitic draw is a different animal then diagnosing a bad rotor, that's all.

[@Foxbody460]

At bmw/mini it’s standard practice to screw the technician on diag if the customer approves the repair 😐

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

😒😒😒 that sucks! I've always heard "you promote what you permit". I know folks depend on their jobs, but being treated like that doesn't sound like something you could depend on anyway?

[@Kevin-qn7jf]

In the case of the other shop doing bad work onnthe car and causing the issue. Bill the customer for the diagnosis still. Take pictures. Have the customer persue the shop that worked on it for remittance of payment. If you pay someone to do work on your home, they are or are not licensed and insured, and they cause damage to your home, the inspector who confirms the cause is going to tell your insurance company and deny your ins claim. That inspector is getting paid. So should you.

[@williamdebene2394]

Well let’s be honest, half the check engine lights I see in 2024 are caused by a dtc threshold of 10.0v on an EFB battery and charging system that operates at 12.0v at idle and while cruising. Battery dips below 10 while cranking one morning over two seconds, voila you’re looking at low voltage or can codes in every system, and they don’t just go to past, they remain current costing you c.y.a. Time. And no f.f.d. Stored to tell you what the voltage was at the time the dtc set. ENGINEERS, EXPLAIN THAT TO THE CUSTOMERS. That’s why nobody wants to do this job anymore.

[@nservice1625]

Why are your findings being run through chat GTP?

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

It helps write general system descriptions for customers.

[@nickayivor8432]

👍

[@niteninja0133]

I'm not diagnosing anything for free, someone is paying me. Ill do stuff for free when i say im going to do it for free. No one will tell me what im doing for free. They can fire me before i work for free

[@nickayivor8432]

CANNY Changing The industry Podcast 👍 From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧 ⏰️ 11:04am

[@MrJoey1570]

Finding an honest mechanic is like finding a needle in a haystack

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

There's lots of honest shops out there... But there are some not so honest ones too - and unfortunately, that's likely more because of unconscious incompetence more than anything else.

[@mikehenderson229]

Finding a good cop is like finding a needle in a haystack.

[@Carlitosway211]

You think a good mechanic is hard to find as a consumer? Try hiring one.

[@alanbeshore943]

Oh no. I think you might have missed something. How do you get lean fuel trim by drawing fuel vapor into the intake manifold via leaking purge valve ? I want my diag fee back. Lol.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Wait, what? I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. 🤣

[@thecardoc100]

If there are no vapors to recover then the purge valve being stuck open is a vacuum leak. We often see P0442 small leak and P0171 together on some vehicles. The evaporative small leak test runs key off and the cannister runs out of vapors during purge events. The result is both of those tests can generate failing results from the purge valve stuck open. I will often ask the customer if the car is ever a little harder to start after refueling.

[@alanbeshore943]

@@ChangingTheIndustry - Lol nope I'm not being sarcastic. You get rich fuel trim by drawing fuel vapor into the intake manifold. Its not unmetered air. Its fuel vapor; so the pcm has to makes a lean correction in an effort to maintain stoichiometric ratio. In some cases you can actually get raw fuel, not just vapor, into the intake, if the purge solenoid/valve is stuck all the way open, and the fuel tank is full. Anyway, this is why counter guys shouldn't diagnose, and should never waive diag fees. It could be your thinking of an evap leak through the purge valve/solenoid, which will allow air into the evap system.

[@alanbeshore943]

@@thecardoc100 - I haven't seen that yet. The evap leak yes, the hard start with a full tank, yes, because of a rich fuel air mixture, not lean. I suppose if the fuel tank was empty then there wouldn't be fuel vapor to recover. Gasolines flash point is about -49F, in other words, its always evaporating, which is the entire reason for the evap systems existence. I should also say the combination of 442 and 171 together was not mentioned in the video, or i didn't hear it, so that's kind of a goal post move. Especially since you didn't specify which code is typically requesting the mil. No, just the 171 was mentioned, which is what prompted my comment.

[@ChangingTheIndustry]

Once the vapors are consumed it becomes a vacuum leak as John indicated. See it quite a bit.