We Don't Work For Free [Charging Diagnostic Time]

This full case study will be out next week. On the second day we were finally able to get it to act up and we fixed the problem. Be sure like like and subscribe and hit that bell icon to be notified for the upcoming case study. Thank you all so much! In the mean time, we have a new SD Premium video out today, so head on over and check it out www.scannerdanner.com
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On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

[@jasonstaub3045]

This is a huge problem at the dealership. As a master tech. diagnostic specialist you get one hour. One hour usually on a car that went to 3 shop because they didn't want to spend money at dealership. Then I get it do my basic diag in a car that apart in pieces with more problems caused then it originally had! Customer flips out says they aren't paying a penny over the 1hr labor and we are ripping them off! Then manager gets involved tells me to FIX it don't worry about time. Then I get screwed after cars fixed 4-5 hrs later. Dealer life sucks as diag guy best to stay a C tech bang out gravy work with no stress of electric and drivability problems.

[@ScannerDanner]

I need to save this comment. This is 100% our field, not just a dealer. Big chain aftermarket places are like this too! Doing my best to make a difference. Thanks for sharing!

[@jasonstaub3045]

@@ScannerDanner ps. Love your channel and your name has come up at lexus corporate training center. The engineers love u! True story.

[@ScannerDanner]

@@jasonstaub3045 wow, seriously? That's so cool man. Never would have thought. Thanks for sharing this too. Really means a lot

[@chevyc101970]

It amazes me that people will drop thousands on a guess and balk at the idea of paying a couple of hundred to guarantee and prove it is repaired. The blame goes to the parts stores and large chain shops for their "free" diagnostics as well as the instant gratification people.

[@Mike-yq7ce]

I agree and spot on. Communication is key.

[@86753091974]

The blame goes to us for allowing it to happen.

[@richard1835]

We don't work for free, but some customers think that. The most prevalent request is, if you find the problem and I give you the work do you still charge for diagnostic time? You can chose to have me repair it but the time I spent finding the fault is not free. The problem is the time and money they have spent with craigslist hacks and inexperienced shops is adding up. By the time the vehicle gets to you the real diagnostic technician they want you to work for free. Great video Paul. Thumbs up.

[@Ken-1]

This!

[@agrautomotivellc3283]

that's when you say this isnt the right shop for you... have a nice day. people think you can whip it out of your ass

[@ScannerDanner]

This full case study will be out next week. On the second day we were finally able to get it to act up and we fixed the problem. Be sure to like and subscribe and hit that bell icon to be notified for the upcoming case study. Thank you all so much! In the mean time, we have a new SD Premium video out today, so head on over and check it out www.scannerdanner.com

[@jeffblackwelder6543]

What scanner are you primarily using

[@ScannerDanner]

@@jeffblackwelder6543 Snap-on Verus, Autel Ultra, Autel IM608, Bosch 525x, TopDon Pheonix and every one of these I would give my stamp of approval on.

[@dtandfam8100]

Thanks Danner's. Appreciate the emphasis on "we don't work for free". I believe your videos have helped and will continue to change our industry. Communication/people skills is key with Mr or Mrs customer. Thank you!

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you so much

[@scottjhicks]

I appreciate you putting this video out! I have said it before and I’ll say it again, YOU are what’s right with this industry. There is not another trade or industry out there that doesn’t charge someone when they look at something or come out. We as a whole have created this problem. It’s amplified by the free “diagnosis” by the parts stores. And if the shops would still do their part the parts store issues would have mostly gone away. People would learn after they got it wrong that they are not providing any real value by scanning a vehicle. Dealerships and independent shops need to communicate to the customer what they can expect and what they cannot. Set the expectations so they are not surprised by a charge afterwards if they haven’t found the issue. Communicating what is not the problem really helps ease the conversation.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you Scott

[@DJGoers]

This is exactly what I needed! I always feel weird charging people and not having an answer

[@kennethhicks2113]

Know how ya feel, makes me mad as heck not being able to duplicate/fix issues too!

[@abubakarisadiqueibrahim481]

Same feeling here brother but it also doesn't make sense to spend all day trying to fix a problem and not get paid at the end just because you couldn't fix it. It should be 50/50 when fault is not found and fixed.

[@Ken-1]

​@@abubakarisadiqueibrahim481 100%. I always end up knocking a bit off of my diag fee if I cannot find the issue. Just to be fair (I'm a mobile mechanic). But working for free is no option. I'm already losing on gas and time. Need something!

[@abubakarisadiqueibrahim481]

@@Ken-1 Yeah sure.

[@Frank-pv1hp]

You hit the nail on the head Paul. Communication is key. I may over communicate with my customers but they keep coming back and are happy to have their vehicles repaired properly!

[@jakemartin4305]

Ive recently just got promoted into a foreman/ manager position at my shop, ive been in this business for about 15 years and youve said it all man gotta be able to lay everthinb out to a customer and even more so when you do repairs on fleet companies the more info you can give and justify your time the easier it is to sell kore time and to keep that relationship on good terms 👏👍

[@bryanmortensen8527]

I wish service managers and advisors fully understood this. Some do, most certainly do not. I work at a Chrysler dealership, customers are always coming in with multiple concerns such as 1: customer states transmission is slipping. 2: customer states ABS light is on. 3: customer states vehicle lacks power. Now an experienced advisor would inform the customer that it would be at least 3 hours of diag time. If they end up all being related maybe not but most advisors will tell the customer 1 hour. ABSOLUTE BULLCRAP!! It’s hard enough that customers think you just plug in a tool and tell them what’s wrong, but now the guys that are supposed to be on our side are screwing us! 1 hour for 3 concerns? No. If you want to pay us flat rate you need to play by the rules.

[@hnd2893]

I hear ya! :O) kzbin.info/www/bejne/qmK5q4uOjLqZp80

[@fuckjewtube69]

Yeah I get that but if you're serious about getting paid you gotta draw a line in the sand. Either they pay you properly (for your time no more no less) or you're leaving, and tell them that. Don't take less. If my service advisor tells me that, I'm flat out saying I ain't doing it. Wtf they gonna do fire me? For what? Not working for free? Go ahead. I'll get another job by tomorrow and let the labor board know. Tell them that just like that man.

[@W.Khairi]

Very well said

[@tallbrian100]

People hear I am an electrician and frequently they have electrical work they want done. Most of the time I just tell them I don't do side work, but some times I say no problem $100 and hour 4 hour minimum, I have had no one take me up on that.

[@lawrenceshane2988]

I learned how to diagnose from you 17 years ago in your class. In that 17 years I learned I’m selling my time. Do they want to buy it?

[@ScannerDanner]

17 years? For real? That is awesome, glad to see you here too my old friend

[@victornaja7927]

You are awesome man. You just helped me i was in that predicament thinking I had no choice n I had to work for free but not no more. I appreciate you greatly.

[@cmboerger]

I'm a customer who watches your videos and "knows things". 😁 I've got an ac problem in with a technician right now who I'm paying to diagnose an issue that's beyond my tools and knowledge. What's most frustrating is when I pay for them to tell me nothing new and nothing's changed.

[@DooMHaMMeR247]

They should state what test have been carried out and the results. Then that should give you a sense if they are even looking in the right direction or maybe get new eyes on the case.

[@W.Khairi]

@@DooMHaMMeR247 Well said

[@Vineyard_Edge]

Pennsylvania is a beautiful place! Thanks for the video.

[@timothycooney986]

Paul, understood that time is money. There are innumerable videos (South Main Auto, Pine Hollow Diagnostics) that have recounted expensive, ineffective repairs. I use the malaligned scan tool to at least give some insight before my car goes to the shop. There are a lot of untrained mechanics who charge for ineptitude.

[@frederickjolliff4631]

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[@josephwash109]

A trend that I've been seeing in the industry is that repair shops are claiming that a lot of their profit comes from the markup on parts. I think that's a backwards business decision. The repair shops should be charging for the skills and talent their technicians have. Parts changers have little, if any, diagnostic ability. It's almost like the technician who can trace an intermittent problem down to a corroded wire is demonized because he didn't sell any parts to make a repair. If we want to be parts salesmen, we'll go work at an auto parts store!

[@thelostshadowofhanzo]

I agree, the people who take the time and develop the skills to fine the actual fault are often scolded for it. I worked at a few shops where the manager knew next to nothing about automotive repair, they were more or less a salesman. They were only interested in how many parts and services they can sell to a customer. The guy who finds the wire that is broken and can repair it is not as valuable to them compared to the guy who recommends swapping different parts and up selling extra services.

[@brianmason8400]

I know that exact feeling of being scolded for fixing a car with out new parts. At a previous employer, car was towed in from another shop because supposedly it needed a pcm and programming. The boss of course was excited for that. I got the RO, and after 2-3 hrs of fixing all the screwed up wiring the other shop loused up, the veh drove out perfectly fine under it's own power. My shop owner was livid that I fixed it with out the new computer. I asked him, "would you rather take $1800 and not fix the car, or the proper amount of labor time and have it fixed", he just said, "next time just do what you're told". ..... I laughed......

[@dhc4011]

Paul I am a technician around your age, We must charge for our time. I would guess you have gone way above and beyond to help your customers out too. I would charge for labor time, diagnostic time, and even what we called "window time" when we had to go to a salvage yard/ parts store. when you talked about the doctor and his diagnostic time it reminded me of things I use to say. when a doctor is wrong with a diag. they will say "they are practicing medicine." The difference between a Mechanic and a Doctor is this, when a doctor misdiagnose some symptom they bury their mistake. When a mechanic makes a misdiagnoses he has to fix his mistakes! Love the videos Thank you.

[@hoss2200]

I admire your work and knowledge. I went into a different field because people would rather pay for things they want (rims, lift kits or fancy sound system or a quinceñera party), instead of things they really need (vehicle repair) My charge was 2 hours of initial diagnostics. 9 out of 10 would say: "no, that's too much, I already went to autozone and they say all I need is an o2 sensor" Got so freaking tired of educating customers. Hope the world gets to watch this video. Thanks for everything my man

[@anthonynicholls8010]

Great video brother you an your son have a blessed day

[@TheGuccibane]

This is exactly why I've been just dealing with an intermittent no-crank issue. Some days it just doesn't want to crank, and the rest it's fine. I have done everything myself to diagnose, and it's either the ground or starter itself. It's been doing this for almost 2 years now. I sent it to the shop, and whaddya know, by the time the mechanic got to it IT WAS STARTING AGAIN. Absolute money-pit of an issue if I let a mechanic try and chase this intermittent issue. This is why for some customers it *sucks* to pay for diagnosing intermittent issues.

[@kennethhicks2113]

Grab a 10mm (or appropriate), and loosen then tighten every ground strap, both ends... Have you used jumper cables to starter from battery when no start condition? (ground and hot direct to battery). GL ps. Had a merc that took me 3 days to diagnose/fix... was a relay as I recall.

[@DooMHaMMeR247]

An experienced diagnostic tech , will test appropriately for the system and one who uses a scope can detect poor circuits and components. With good data can make a call to fix an intermittent issue of a failing part/control circuit. JS

[@kennethhicks2113]

Also, where are you Matt? I'm retired and help some folks/friends and family out, if relatively local (1 in X chance), I'd be willing to diagnose without charge and fix, you buy parts and assist.

[@TheGuccibane]

@@kennethhicks2113 Thanks for the offer. The issue came back after over 2 months again. This time I checked nearly everything. New symptom being it cranks for a split second then no longer responds to crank signal. It did this twice this week. Both days split second crank then no response after. Solenoid gets 12v every time key in crank Heavy gauge hot always 12.3v Voltage drops to 12.09 on the heavy gauge with key in crank There is no voltage leaking into ground on the engine block The only thing I haven't tried is bypassing the system with a direct jumper to starter (it's not easy setting alligator clips on blindly). Seems to me it's been the starter the entire time? It's only about 3-4 years old, but I'm not sure what brand the previous shop installed in there.

[@kennethhicks2113]

@@TheGuccibane Based on how I'm reading what you wrote, key always applies 12V to solenoid and solenoid always outputs 12V with very little voltage drop. This tells me not much current output to starter and thus not enough power to turn the starter motor. Diagnosis/guess, bad starter or ground. Considering the difficulty of getting 12V to starter, use jumper cable from battery ground to engine block close to starter (you supply known good ground on starter).... if same measurements, bad starter. GL

[@jdtractorman7445]

This is something that used to chap me something fierce when I was still in this business. Why should techs work for free? No one else does. Some of what bothered me the most was some customers just had the attitude that well since my car is broke you have to fix it with minimal or no charge to me. Much time is spent now and has been for several years now, just finding wiring schematics, narrowing down the problem, before ever even touching the car. All of that takes time to do. I still wish this industry would do away with the flat rate pay system. Unfortunately, that is what has created all of the parts changers out there in my opinion.

[@billmonroe8826]

I used a customers vehicle to test drive it while getting parts for another vehicle. Yet, you'd here ppl gripe that you were using their vehicle for free. Aggravating!!!

[@unclemarksdiyauto]

Good techs should be paid for their time!

[@labrat6910]

Thanx Paul.Yes its so difficult to find these intermittant faults and still charge the customer,Thanx for your input on this.

[@Bwelsh1981]

Amen BROTHER! People absolutley need to be informed! I always make sure they understand what is happening. The more Educated they are the better they feel about moving on with the process!

[@alejandromorazan3420]

6:38 OMG that view is beautiful, i wish i had streets like that where i live

[@DooMHaMMeR247]

100% , the doctor comparison is exactly right. They charge for every test they run , not even by the hour. Heck they charge you for just showing up and talking for 5 minutes 😵

[@jessemedina4482]

They even charge for misdiagnosis and losing a patient

[@adamgross9778]

My wife works in insurance, she gets mad if she catches me taking customer vehicles thru the drive thru. I consider it a valid diag test. "Drive thru noise verification test" Yes, charge for your time & diag. Great video as usual, thanks

[@DANNYN224]

Great video as always

[@W.Khairi]

Hits home very hard Danner, Well said

[@graywaveautodiagnostics9389]

I tell the customer up front what my average time spent diagnosing a vehicle is and give them a ball park to look at. I tell them it could be more or less depending on the problem. I also have them read and agree to terms and conditions I send them via email before going there. Part of the terms and conditions is I must be paid regardless if I find the fault or not or if a component needs to replaced and programmed at the dealer unless I say otherwise. I haven't had anyone complain yet.

[@ScannerDanner]

perfect! Communication is the key

[@bertalert341]

I love your channel and always look forward to what is next. I am a retired autobody repairer and know exactly what you mean especially with intermittent electrical problems. I do want to comment on time charged for repairs. I absolutely agree one must pay for one's talent. It takes many, many years to be a pro at anything. Admittedly some folks never get better than average but charge the same and most times more because of time spent. A rookie may spend three days to find a problem whereas a pro may take a day or an hour because of their years of experience.( must pay for that talent). Regardless if we are talking about lawyers, doctors, mechanics, plumbers, etc there are great professionals and then there are those that barely pass. Every shop has its best mechanic and then the rest. I do prefer to pay the bigger buck for someone with years of experience. Rookies have to start somewhere and I don't mind a rookie working alongside a pro on my car or home etc. In collision repair or rust repair? We also have the real good pros and then the average joe. Yet the door rates are the same is my point. So charging is important but so is the level of the expert on the case. We all cringe at having to go to a dealer, however, if you get the "right" person, sometimes it is faster/cheaper because maybe the pro has experienced your symptoms before vs a private garage that has never worked on your particular vehicle and needs to "learn" from ground zero. This rant is not worth a dime, but it's free. TY

[@blautomotive7230]

Awesome video! 100% agree with you! You are the one that got me started in this business.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thanks so much!

[@Pablo_Automotive]

I completely agree with you, in Spain we have exactly the same problem, but much more serious since neither the bosses themselves value, neither the knowledge nor the time invested in training to make a good diagnosis, much less the clients when they spend hours and hours looking for a fault and avoid changing parts.

[@thelostshadowofhanzo]

Unfortunately it also comes down to alot of shop owners or service managers who also don't want to pay a technician for diagnostic time. Technicians are pressured so much to have an answer of what is wrong within the first hour diagnostic time, you get guys start doing guessnoatics in hopes to happen to fix the issue. Then when that does not work, the technician gets it in the neck because it does not fix the problem. The industry is getting worse when it comes to this and less and less people are wanting to get into the automotive industry. You make the same points I have been ranting on for years about the same things. I always appreciate your videos Paul, thanks for sharing all your k knowledge.

[@DJ-tn7vj]

Agreed 💯 SD. 💯. Train your customers, make sure your call is spot on. Make sure they pay what your time is worth.

[@JohnWick-xz9tc]

that is why I watch you and many others!!

[@huangyi8451]

Scanner danner you are the man!!

[@falahal-tai2979]

Many thanks Paul, I couldn't agree more.

[@lenny2137]

As a workshop foreman in a dealership most of my day is spent on diagnostics. I have made my service advisors watch several of your videos relating to this topic and after a couple of months they finally got it and things are running so much smoother. Managing customer’s expectations and giving proper detailed write ups on invoices,so when Mr customer comes back with a MIL on they have full documentation of what was fixed what code was stored etc, so you have to pay again cause it’s a different fault different job

[@ScannerDanner]

Awesome! Thank you! Trying to help this field in any way that I can

[@Metal_Mechanic]

Just shared on my business page! Thank you for that understanding of needing to be paid for our time.

[@ScannerDanner]

thank you so much!

[@user-io3hw7hx7q]

Awesome Outstanding job thanks

[@cullenmiller8170]

Nice video. I used my Verus lab scope and the knowledge I have learned from to trouble shoot my Aqua Hot boiler in my RV. The scope showed the glitch the volt meter just showed a small drop in voltage. It still was a hard call to make since the Webasto controller is a thousand bucks. Got a rebuilt one for half price and problem fixed. Thanks Paul for all your teaching and the people whining about you talking to much can go and kick rocks.

[@ScannerDanner]

Thank you Cullen!

[@kville5796]

Well said mate - "communication".

[@theautotechnerd]

Brother didn't even stop at the stop !!!!! Great point vid.

[@virtisconsole12]

Really great PSA about diagnostic time.. yeah the educated customer knows your time isn’t free. Couldn’t agree more with that analogy on the doctor visit not finding anything, but you’re still gonna be charged, this is the exact same. Great scenery on that drive very lush .. but I’d expect that in PA.. I always find your commentary educational and witty.. I’m a DIYer and don’t just swap parts, I try to diagnose and solve problems.. but if I scan something and it shows intermittent I/O issues I’ll RR a part of it’s not too expensive, like an ABS sensor.. I won’t tell my buddy if I’m working on his car you need a $800 ABS module.. open communication is key.. I think customers will understand

[@tonistarks2874]

Very well said

[@andrew7202]

I love what you say my biggest issue with running my own business but also being a tech. Being a mobile mechanic as well deff makes it interesting in charging as well. Also testing is a weird one for me

[@UNEEK_LOGIK]

Preach Brother!!. Preach…. WE DONT WORK FOR FREE

[@detailedautodiagnostics]

For me eating in the customer's car or using the customer's car for a personal errand is a no no….. This is the one thing that sooooo many technicians in the field disagree with me on…. If I go for a road test, that's all I do, road test the vehicle..... The car is only operated for diagnostic or troubleshooting purposes..... I know guys are going to beat me up in the comments because sooooo many techs do it but it is just my view for staying professional Nothing personal only professional...thanks for the video, keep them coming!!!

[@ScannerDanner]

I wouldn't beat you up on that. The trade off then is you should be billing for every minute you spend in that customer's car. And if you say that is what I do, I have ZERO problem with that. Certainly us eating in the customer's car does not come off as very professional and if that car was going back to that customer this same day, we would have an issue there.

[@detailedautodiagnostics]

@@ScannerDanner Agreed....and we are good!!!...just conversation amongst friends and technicians!!!

[@igotyourback209]

Your right bro I do the same thing your time is money and if someone else fixes it cheaper and they mess it up then they call you then it's more money beside it's a convenients to go to their home to fix it then to take it to a garage and always get paid what your worth. Keep the good work up.👍👍👍

[@theadmiral5425]

Great Topic there amigo.....too good to discuss here in the comments as I don't want to write a novel.

[@mikeburdi3464]

I think mechanics need to see this video, but I also think that customers would learn something by this video also. I went to a shop on the July long weekend to check a truck that was around a few different shops and they couldn't find the problem. I found the problem, shop owner starts bickering with me over my charge, after spending a couple of thousand dollars already between himself and the other shops he sent it to for my couple of hundred dollars to actually solve his problem. Sometimes people piss me off! Stay well everybody!

[@Justus7213]

Right-ON BRO...👊🏾👍🏾

[@kyletuttle9064]

So true Danner

[@kaikendall3]

Your point is 100% valid, but a lot of mechanics bill 2.5 hours for pulling a code with zero follow up, which gives real mechanics a bad name by affiliation.

[@normangallant9879]

Yes communication to the customer is very important

[@Triggerman1976]

I completely understand.

[@ToddErickson365]

As I used to say on the hotline, "Reproducable is fixable" and "No brokie, no fixie." and "Random sucks."

[@jesusmalagon4336]

Thanks 😊 master danner saque los típs

[@slopoke22]

So so so, many times I've worked for free and I'm tired of that crap as well. I freakin charge every time now! Although I'm good at it, I hate wiring harness problems along with fuse block problems!

[@redrustyhill2]

I dont even work for free for friends anymore. If i spend 2 hours i want 2 hours of work in return

[@ask43242flight]

Thanks

[@gustavofuenmayor8409]

Yes, we should learn to communicate well with the client from the first moment. If he doesn't like the deal, we don't waste our time and money. Greetings from Panama.

[@victorgonza4528]

You were talking to me on this one Danner .

[@emmanuelcruz6845]

I feel this man the first time I started watching he's videos you are the shit lol I am a mobile mechanic and I started told the costumers once you see a issue whit a car turn your camera on from your phone and recorder just like if the issue its not occurring while we there so it helps

[@SALEEN961]

You're absolutely right about 9 out of 10 shops being nothing but parts changers. I work at a shop that takes in all the work that the other local shops and dealers can't handle. It really sucks when you get a vehicle after it has been to 3 other shops for the same issue. Half the time the vehicle arrives with the truck full of old parts, the vehicle is partially disassembled, and there's a whole slew of erroneous fault codes from the last guy unplugging stuff.

[@fordguy395]

I agree. I work for a dealership and we get a lot of cars from the independent car lots or the buy here pay here lots and those "techs" at those lots and the chain shops can't fix the most obvious fault especially if it has anything to do with electrical work.

[@SALEEN961]

@@fordguy395 I think a big part of the problem is that most tech schools don't seem to teach diagnosis and they don't give their students real world problems to diagnose. I went to a pretty good school, but I still learned most of my diag skills by working in the field and seeking out information online. The case studies that ScannerDanner posts are way more informative than what I saw in school.

[@redrustyhill2]

​@SALEEN961 😂😂😂 "school" only teaches the basics, enough to get you an entry level job. I get a good laugh at people who think school teaches everything you need to know and will make you an expert

[@mitchellroberson]

So I am no longer a mechanic and had stopped doing DIY for several years. But now I take care of my own cars and several others for friends and family. And let me say I agree with you. But my question is who pays for the parts cannon? Or for the shop that changes the oil and lets all the Freon out, AC worked when it went in. And did not when it left. Separate shop tested it charged it and no leaks. And I do understand the customer that comes in and says I have a miss change the coil. And does not allow diagnostic time. They should pay. But the tech should also communicate what he see's even in those circumstances. Your point about communication is key. I would rather of had a tech call me and say hey I am an hour in. And we know it is not x or y we think it is B but could be 3 other things. And to diagnose all other options would take 4 more hours. Do you want me to replace B. And see what happens which may mean a return and more diagnostic time. Up to you mr customer. But that is not what seems to happen and this happens often. I truly believe in your training. I pay for it actually mostly because I have received so much value from the free stuff you do on KZbin. So yes I believe Techs should get payed for their services. But Techs and Shops need to get way better at communications. I stopped taking my cars to shops because of several situations all with in a single year happening to me with several different shops. Oil change that dumped all the oil out with in 4 miles of leaving the shop, Another services that the air cleaner was left out all together and the air box was not even closed up. And Yes one case of me being that customer. I told them to change the clutch. the pilot bearing was bad but the left the old one in, never called me. 2 days later after picking truck up had issues shifting. pulled transmission pilot bearing was welded to the crank, had to put new crankshaft in. And had tires and breaks done. Lugnuts were not torqued down. Driving down the highway front wheel passes my daughter into the ditch. No studs left on wheel when done. That one is a bit of speculation it could have been over tightening as well. Either I suck at picking Shops. Or there is a bigger systemic problem that really needs to be addressed. And not all these were same shops and not all same city. It can be expensive finding a shop you can trust.

[@terryharvey4811]

If a doctor does a MRI and finds nothing you still pay for the MRI. Same with any other tests, scans, or blood work. You have to pay even though nothing is found. If he gives you 2 aspirins and tells you to call him in the morning, you will be billed for the office visit and 2 aspirins and when you call him the next morning he will bill for another office visit.That said, every thing you test that IT ain't will lead you to what IT is. Process of elimination. NO DIFFERENCE IN HIM AND US. WE SHOULD BE PAID FOR WHAT WE DO. We should and can use his standard line "OUR TEST WAS INCLUSIVE, SO WE NEED TO DO MORE TESTS". This is exactly what we should be doing. Communicate with the customer, tell him what you didn't find and make a recommendation for more time or bring it back while it's acting up. {CALL ME IN THE MORNING} NO....N.. O.. No other profession gives away their time, we should not either.......

[@dthetruckguy1499]

Great information Paul. Just out of curiosity, if you have an intermittent problem that you cannot duplicate. Where do you draw the line? How much time? In the past I used to spend on and off several days trying to duplicate the customer concern. Driving down bumpy roads, shaking the whole truck around, wiggling all harnesses, etc lol. Now, depending on the issue, I’ve gotten to the point where I only spend a few hours before I just ask the customer to bring it back when the problem is more frequent.

[@ScannerDanner]

Sometimes I just go over it quickly then give it back without a charge at all! Why? Because I do NOT want to own it. Once you charge them, it is now your problem. And yes, just tell them to bring it back when it is happening more frequently

[@sohailrabani]

Because of time issue i left this work i cahnged my line to factory automation.customer thinks they paid for fix the car not only for diagnostics never win this part with automotive work so ran away from it but i love this work as much as i can say.worst customer are who dont leave their car with you to work upon thats the most absurd thing to have.

[@drew5992]

You don’t get a doctor visit for free. Facts 💯 We are the auto doctors so we are not free. I’m also tired of people thinking my time and skill is cheap because I’m a mobile mechanic. I’m a mobile technician not a tree shade diyer

[@deebalt071]

Next topic should be on what shops pay their techs. I’ve worked in a number of shops that their certified master tech can’t diag a car for crap or just goes straight to the computer and tells the advisor what’s wrong based on most common fault. And yet they get paid the “big bucks”. It also bugs me how the we the techs have not seen a pay adjustment based on cost of living for decades now. Years ago 26-30$/hr was considered pretty good. Now days that’s barely enough to pay for tools and everything else and yet 32$/hr is still considered high according to shop owners and companies. Such a pain to deal with.

[@Santiago_Ordonez_]

Great.

[@James-fs4rn]

👍 customers need to pay for diagnosis time or they will pay for a parts changer and it will end up costing more.

[@scottberry4390]

Working at several dealerships and shops over the years, the biggest hurdle was getting the"boss or service writer" to understand this concept. Those are the jobs I evacuated very quickly. Of course these employers loved that I could fix the problems other techs or garages but after getting multiple diag jobs in a week I usually got screwed on my hours. Oh well just a rant. The parts changers seem to get the recognition and pay and us diag techs get the crap end of the stick. Frustrating AF

[@ScannerDanner]

100% spot on and is one of the greatest travesties of our industry

[@ifitaintbroke7427]

I took my truck to a shop recently to get a inspection and get my tail light wiring fixed. I knew what it was that needed fixed, I just didn't want to do it. I work 7 days a week and the last thing I want to do is work on my own truck in 100 degree heat. Here's how my bill totaled Inspection- $12 Electrical diagnostic-$135 Labor for wiring-$65 Light bulb-$17.50 Ball joint replacement-$ 120 Ball joint labor-$275 4 wheel alignment-$135 Now after my tax I was out the door paying almost $700 for a ball joint, tail light wiring fixed, a bulb, inspection and alignment. Also I had to miss 2 days of work because the shop originally told me they would be done the day I took the truck there. I had to get ahold of the shop 30 minutes before they was to close and see what was up with my truck. Then they said oh well we was really busy today and wasn't able to get to it, so either you can leave the truck here or bring it back tomorrow. Well I told them to keep it and it ended up taking them 4 days to fix my truck instead of the 1 I was told. I had to miss 2 days of work. So not only was I out the 700 to pay the shop I was out my 2 days pay at work. How's that fair to me? I still got charged for telling them what was wrong with my truck, $135 for electrical diagnostic.

[@sonofmontezuma3732]

100% correct

[@wrightsrrt871]

I always get the people who seem to not understand that it may take more than an day to diagnose an situation. They always seem to think diagnoses takes an hour and it's just an scan but they don't understand that you may have to scope the car run live diagnoses on scanner and all this can take time when your navigating the scanner waiting for loading times page to page. Or when scoping you may have to scope more than one sensore or part which takes time to reset scope up and settings. On top of that all the other test like block testing for compression or snap throttle testing when in live diagnoses on scanner. Just sucks when you have someone who wants there issue resolved but don't want to wait to get there car back so they take there car blow up the engine then there mad that they have to buy an new car

[@nutsandguts7738]

Doctors suck now a day. I honestly truly feel that a really good technician is almost like a detective but has to have the iq level of a doctor if that makes sense lol love your stuff. I am constantly trying to learn and become a better diagnosing technician.

[@ScannerDanner]

100% agree, most doctors are "parts changers" and the ratio seems to be the same as finding a good tech

[@nutsandguts7738]

Yep went to the doctor 4 times for the same issue and did the other 3 doctors take my money very quick, with the money for Prescriptions yes they did.

[@eurowerx4267]

It blows my mind when one’s ask if I charge to diagnose? If the diagnosis goes toward the repair? These people are clueless to the cost of equipment, value of product knowledge and the value of my time!!! When I’m asked those questions, I defer the work to someone else. Not the client I’m looking for. They’ll never value what I’ll do for them

[@thadiusawala863]

Hi sir I have been following ur good work,can u give me a help,I got a ford escape hybrid 2008,after timing it starts runs for 2sec and goes off and a red triangle appears on dashboard any help?thanks

[@tomtke7351]

got it early on. infrequent intermittents are infrequent intermittents FOR TECHNICIANS too!

[@mannynieves493]

The problem is when the shop guessing and the customer has to pay for the consequences or when the customer thinks get code is the diagnostic. On electric problem you know when you start but you don't know when you go fishing. Gest is not the solution.

[@fordguy395]

Customers thinking the code is diagnostics is autozone and other parts chain's fault for putting that in the customer's minds in the late 90's -2000's

[@bereel5621]

Your shirt should say "Good Game" ... ^.^ ... WTF does "Nice Game" mean?...maybe it's sarcastic?...Idfk....lol. Many props and much love absolutely...

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

Exactly, Awesome a prominent industry person says this! We recently had a customer with an Explorer who asked us to install an alternator. We asked her for diagnosis, she said that was a rip off to charge just for checking her car. Her car was charging and had a parasitic draw that kills the battery after sitting a couple days. She left angry that we wouldn't install an alternator. This is our world, can't win them all.

[@JimmyMakingitwork]

@MPB Very true, the less they want to spend, the more they seem to expect.

[@user-jo4kg8ov3u]

Hello danner,i like your subject.you know in my country there are a shops only to hook up the scanner tool,reading codes for the customer and got paid.then the customer drive his car to the another shop to repair what i found and got paid again.and if the problem not solved,customer come back to the first shop to scan again and charge again.i think this is how it should be only for the customers who doesn't like to pay.

[@angeldelcourt6882]

I had to tell some people that I don't work on cars anymore. People were getting my diagnosis and labor to perform the repairs free of charge. No more ex-girlfriend free of charge repairs or friends. I'm a do it yourself er. I've been working on cars for many years, I'm by no means a mastertech but I hold my own. I'm always learning and I dedicate a lot of hours to further my automotive knowledge. I was an aircraft parts technician for many years, but automotive repairs is a hobby that I enjoy. But, time is precious and people need to pay for the service.

[@christopherkassner8894]

I know some who decided to take a customers van and pick up a 30 gallon drum of GL5. Don’t ask me how. But the drum opened up when it fell over and emptied out in the van.

[@ScannerDanner]

lol, well that was just dumb on their part

[@mph5896]

Ha, now that’s funny. Expensive lesson for the shop

[@christopherkassner8894]

@@mph5896 yep. He never used a customer’s car again for anything other than diagnostic’s. Very expensive lesson for sure.

[@ScorpioUncle008]

Right

[@edwardboers2269]

i work full time at a fleet/municipality.... when i make repairs to help out friends, family, outside customers.... troubleshooting comes with prior authorization of up to 4 hours to look at it and if they have a problem with that they get to take their car to a parts changer and I refuse to look at it

[@gnomiefirst9201]

It's a conundrum. Knowledge isn't action but knowledgeable people still need to get paid for their time (edit--their diagnostics). Mechanics are supposed to listen to the customer but a lot (?) of customers also throw curve balls. The mechanic has to start with the ABC's or they are setting themselves up for failure. It's fine to do what the customer says they want done with the mechanic's caveat of---OK, but I am charging you for it and I don't guarantee that is the fix e.g. throwing parts at it. Story--Neighbors son took their badly running car in. The mechanic pulled a DTC and replaced the CPS for $240. The car still wouldn't start and the mechanic told them they needed to unplug a relay, turn ignition on and then off, then replace the relay to start the car; the car was still barely running. Another shop said it needed a new transmission (edit---a new engine) to fix the problem. I pulled a DTC---bad CPS. The mom neighbor put in a new CPS and the car runs fine. I have a bad back so I can't do a lot, but I still have eyes. My two friends, who have tons of wrenching under their belts, and I went to get a truck one of them picked up for cheap because it would not start. After watching them for an hour trying to start it I walked over. Two wiring harnesses were unplugged. It started right up after plugging them in. What I am getting at is even the most cursory visual inspection can lead to a solution. Most people have no clue what they are looking at or for. I'm like, how can you not see something staring you right in the face? LOL. The Car Wizard has several videos where his customers have been bounced from shop to shop because they (edit, the shops) couldn't diagnose even the most basic problems---spark, fuel, air. Sad sigh. Industry full of incompetence and rip offs. Best wishes to awl! Edit---I have seen people who do something to their car (or nothing at all), try starting it, still barely runs, or not at all, and keep cranking it or starting and stopping it thinking it will run better after this ritualistic mumbo jumbo ...too funny! Also, Paul your one great dude. And peoples, show him the MONEY!

[@louiscates6975]

One variable to keep in mind. If you work in a shop with a service advisor who is the middle person between the tech and the customer. In this case, communication is not just about a good or bad tech.

[@renj6531]

9:23 nice suspense I thought he was gonna say unfortunately I hit the squirlle

[@weshawkins7165]

It Snap-On, Mac Tools and Matco Tools fault because they don’t sell magic wands and crystal balls. That’s what I think the motoring public thinks we have in our multiple tool boxes. They think we’re suppose to know the cause of every problem because we do work this everyday all day. They don’t realize every job is different. Oh, great video as usual.

[@nerdacs]

The only time I don’t expect to pay diagnostic time is if it is a warranty complaint. Then the manufacturer is going to be paying diagnostic time.

[@seansdriveway]

Hey man I have a question for you. Some context on this is that my grandmother passed away earlier this year and passed down her crown Vic to me. So I have been working on it non-stop for the past few months getting it back on the road. Brought it to get an alignment at a shop after I put on new tie rods, white wall tires, and sway bar bushings. Got the car back and the wheel was way off to the right. Held the wheel straight and it would go way off to the left. Like I’m talking it would cross three lanes on a parkway holding the wheel straight. So I bring it back tell the guy who did it that there was something wrong with the alignment, and he says bring it back but that the car has loose steering so the wheel won’t always be straight. If it does it again he said he wanted to go for a ride so I can show him. In my head I wasn’t buying the loose steering box, but ok. I pick it up the second time and ask him if he wants to take a ride so I can show him, at first he told me it’s near closing time and he wants to go home, but I convince him and he tells me that he wants me to go down the street he uses for all of his alignments because it wasn’t doing it for him. I said I hope it doesn’t do it this time then proceed to hold the wheel straight, and the car tracks left to the other side of the road. As soon as he sees that he tells me to turn the car around and head back to his shop, that I was being to anal, and that he’s being racing cars his whole life, he did 10 alignments that day and that you can’t win them all. So he said I’ll just give you your money back. You’re obviously not happy. We go back I don’t have my card so he said he can’t give me cash since I didn’t pay cash. He told me to come back the next morning but i didn’t go back. Upon further inspection of the car when I got home, I found that the front right white wall had been completely scuffed up for about a 1/4 of the tire and the rear right had some rubber missing from the side wall. I was besides myself. Brand new white wall tires, just messed up. I took pictures and I have before photos to show that they weren’t done by me. Was I being to anal about the car not tracking straight? And should I press the guy for damages to the tires? I haven’t gone back to get my money since I have other things going on. I mean I’m a graduated Marine Motorsports student from BOCES and have been wrenching on cars the last 6 years. I feel like this could’ve been handled better but idk. I’m trying to get a different perspective on the matter.

[@ScannerDanner]

To be clear, these were brand new tires? That got destroyed after having what sounds like a shotty alignment done? Or were these very old tires?

[@seansdriveway]

@@ScannerDanner they were brand new tires. Bough them off of priority tire, had them shipped, installed them one week prior.

[@johnbellas490]

Hello Danner! I was wondering what you found out on a Ford Explorer you had about 3 to 4 months ago that you were troubleshooting the 4 oxygen sensors and the EGR valve and the vent valve! I have the same vehicle same year and same problem just lately and was curious as to what the eventual outcome was, Was it the engine computer or was it a wiring problem?? Thanks.

[@ScannerDanner]

Engine computer was the call but it's still sitting at that other shop! Read the comments in here, you'll feel better about making that call.

[@johnbellas490]

@@ScannerDanner Hello Mr Danner!! Thank you very much for your quick reply!! I will be working to see what major repair shop or garage in my local area would be willing to do the change work on the ECU. Many thanks --John Bellas!!

[@ScannerDanner]

@@johnbellas490 just keep in mind, multiple bad ECMs is the report on these! Bad right out of the box, even from Ford!! I'd suggest trying to find a used one to be honest

[@azjackal]

Facts, 🇯🇲

[@AKChryslertech]

Very good point sir! Im actually fighting that same thing on my service vehicle. My jeep has an intermittent boost control circuit fault that puts it into limp mode at seemingly random times. When i get to a point of putting my scope on it, the fault isnt there. It acts up until i shut it off then it resets. I know a problem is there, but cant say for sure where the circuit fault is yet. Its the same for my customers. Im trying to find the fault and sometimes it takes longer than an hour.