FTL vs The Ten Commandments

'Not murdering anyone will be by far my hardest challenge.' - Me, 2022
My previous FTL video: • FTL: Trolley Problems ...
A very belated follow-up to my FTL video essay. Today, I'll be playing FTL as a deontologist, abiding by the Ten Commandments as I battle my way through the galaxy. Can I beat the game as a good person?

[@OliverLugg]

If anyone else wants to try this c̶h̶a̶l̶l̶e̶n̶g̶e philosophical experiment by following the same rules I did, I'd love to see your attempts. Please reply to this comment if you've made such a video!

[@rolledlemon3113]

I have noticed that taking scrap is an act of theft, especially in the case of Automated Rebel Scouts it's clearly rebel property. So for those who truly want to complete this challenge you should not take scrap it may only be acquired through legitimate selling of goods and services.

[@npswm1314]

This is easier than you think. Murder implies intent to kill unjustly. You are in what is presumably a just war so its not murder to kill enemies. Its only murder if you have no valid reason to kill. Edit: Also you could argue under this that everything you do is self defense and thus entirely justified because you have no recourse for de-escalation.

[@CommissarMitch]

​@@npswm1314 Yep. Loopholes within loopholes.

[@npswm1314]

@@CommissarMitch Its not technically a loophole its just the technical understanding of that commandment.

[@wow-roblox8370]

they were clearly still there, they lost their engines and FTL, not only did you steal from them but their oxygen ran out and they slowly suffocated, it is all your fault. YOU KILLED THEM!!!!!

[@michaelvaller]

At about 9 minutes you said: "the gods do not like me today", but you should only have one God during this playthrough

[@thecondescendinggoomba5552]

Gottem

[@thecondescendinggoomba5552]

Though to be he never said the other gods were before yaweh

[@Redjard]

8:36

[@ehrenmurdick]

I don't think deontology requires monotheism.

[@bob.5857]

@@ehrenmurdick The Ten Commandments do

[@grill-surf-bust]

"Can't have" other gods = can't worship. You can mention them all you like. (Happens quite often in the source material.)

[@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes]

afaik early iterations of Yahweh worship were definitely henotheistic, or a religion which believes other gods exist, but just that they ain't shit compared to the main one. Makes sense as a gradual step out of Canaanite polytheism.

[@starburst98]

I think in the moses story it says that the Egyptian gods hardened Pharoah's heart and made him chase moses.

[@CantusTropus]

@@CraftsmanOfAwsomenes Typical liberal exegesis

[@CantusTropus]

@@starburst98 No, no it does not

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@CantusTropus your anime fanfic about yahweh reads like shit

[@Reddles37]

Ah, yes, the strategy of deciding that your enemies don't have souls so your moral rules don't apply to them. Classic.

[@kim15742]

That‘s basically the “why are Christians not vegetarian”

[@regulargoat7259]

They had to circumvent “thou shalt not kill” to do the crusades, why not do it again!

[@deathspeakerplayz-youtubep2722]

@@regulargoat7259thou shall not kill was more along the lines of modern day murder. There were many wars fought by and won by the Jews where other nations army’s died. Also murder wouldn’t apply to animals sense you are using their parts for your own life. The crusades were no part of gods plan however and I do not endorse them 🤣

[@MrAwawe]

@@deathspeakerplayz-youtubep2722 "Also murder wouldn’t apply to animals sense you are using their parts for your own life." Doesn't this imply killing for the sake of cannibalism isn't murder?

[@spacebassist]

@@MrAwawe maybe prion disease is there to catch anyone who tries that loophole

[@Yamtaggler]

Too bad you couldn't get the space pope to OK a Space Crusade, that would've had you good to go.

[@phelpysan]

I was thinking this - playing biblically one has all the more reason to enter rock space, as part of a just crusade against heretics!

[@GeistInTheMachine]

I believe that Biblical scholars have found out that the Commandment against murder is just that: Don't murder people. Murder implies premeditation or cold blood. Which Is why many Biblical translations write the Commandment as (paraphrasing) "Thou shall not murder, in place of "...kill." This emphathizes the difference between simply killing and coolblooded murder. Killing someone in a "just" or justifiable war or self-defense when you are just trying to survive is far different from killing to kill. Also, in war, presumably the enemy can lawfully surrender, which then gives you the moral duty of stopping the engagement.

[@crispychips7161]

Omg you just my comment but better. Thank you sir.

[@Verrisin]

Next you could say "virgins" meant women who have never been pregnant. That would also make more sense, but is it true? ....

[@fartface8918]

@@Verrisin sure man but you have to remember Christian beliefs didn't survive 2,000 years unscathed especially in America

[@freddypowell7292]

It's a translation thing. The king James version translates it as thou shalt not kill, and that appears to be the version used here. It's not the most accurate, occasionally sacrificing faithfulness to the original Greek and Hebrew texts for majesty of language, but the point of this experiment was not to test a specific set of rules, but to test whether one could succeed with an unbreakable (and morally reasonable) set of rules.

[@sebastiansandoval4861]

This is true and all but given what they said on the og video this challenge is more about directly causing a dead than the motivations

[@stormmk9]

That event where the mantis ship suddenly stops attacking and drops fuel, i always interpreted it as they're taking pity but don't want to directly admit it. i suppose it COULD have been legitimately accidentally dropped, and perhaps something they wished to recover, but they don't request its return when you take it, so i'd say you're probably safe

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

Its the same problem as picking up a coin someone else dropped, if you know who dropped it. I think it would be stealing to take it. If they did not communicate that it was your property, then they did not transfer it's ownership to you.

[@stormmk9]

@@dashiellgillingham4579 you make a fair point, but i feel like the different circumstances change things somewhat. Namely:the fact that they dropped it at the same time as they stopped fighting, knowing full well that that was exactly what you were going to ask for had they not immediately attacked.

[@user-kf9cd2di2x]

I think it's meant as a 'thank you for not killing us' but because they're a warrior culture they don't like admitting defeat

[@stormmk9]

@@user-kf9cd2di2x also entirely possible, given the circumstances. Could be pity, could be surrender, could even be respect for a fellow warrior, or maybe even all three. They never speak to you, so who knows?

[@Lotusblue234]

“Anyone up for some light adultery while we’re waiting? … no?” 😂

[@Greenicegod]

31:00 they don't explicitly say they want you to kill someone, they just have noticed you have many self-defence flaks and may be interested in taking a job. I mean, mercenary work could mean anything. Also I think I found my issue with deontology... From a game theory standpoint, it directly encourages you to avoid knowledge. If you don't know anything, you can't be morally responsible for your actions. I hate that.

[@michimatsch5862]

Oh my god, of course Shrike would be his god (rip my soul). He gushed so much about it. Bonus points for staying true to your stance that Shrike should haven been called Shrek. That reference genuinely made me laugh.

[@Squalidarity]

You did not actually kill (send to their death) your crewmate at 24:42 As we are basing our deontological morality around a portion of the beliefs of the Abrahamic faiths, we may take the existence of the soul as a given. If we define death to mean a permanent cessation of life, as the departure of a being’s soul or essence from this world to the next, then so long as you have a working clone bay, none of your crew can be said to have been killed carrying out your commands. It was a temporary ceasing of bodily function, no different than receiving a shock from a defibrillator or a heart transplant. The soul, as best as we mortal and imperfect beings can tell, persists. Now, one may contend that the clone bay does not prevent death, so much as it creates a new being that happens to have all the memories and qualities of a now-deceased crewmate. In response, I would ask the following be considered: 1) There is no evidence that this has occurred, and as deontologists, only our actions taken given our current knowledge are of concern to us. 1b) Evidence in this case would be, for instance, the clone bay being able to create infinite copies of a crewmate without suffering apparent “death”. As the clone bay (or at least that on our ship and those sold on the open market) does not function this way, we can reasonably posit that “cloning” in this case is maintaining the continuity of the soul in the mortal world; rather than creating new beings with identical memories and qualities. 1c) There is also no evidence in lore (to my knowledge) that the clone bay may be modified such that it functions according to the latter description; thus we may reasonably conclude that the clone bay requires a soul to produce a body. 2) The teleporter faces more or less the same moral quandary, and its use has already been deemed as in line with the commandments. 3) This would also raise the question of whether any cessation of consciousness means death, followed by a new being waking up in the same body. If this is true, sleeping is in fact suicide, as in killing of the self, and so immoral. The existence of the soul, however, defeats this worry; a being’s essence may persist even through unconsciousness, and so the being cannot be said to have died.

[@dydlus]

The event with the unknown disease in a mining colony has an extra line of text if you lose a crewmember with a clonebay installed. "As your crewman is still alive and working towards a cure, it would be against Federation regulation to create a clone to continue with you on your journey." Therefore, the clonebay can produce bodies without a soul. Sending a crewmember to their death is murder, as the clone wouldn't have that crewmember's soul. In the instance mentioned, however, one could argue that the crewmate was _not_ sent to their death - after all, death wasn't a guarantee. The fact they died was a honest to... Was a honest mistake. If simply allowing a crewmate to be in a dangerous situation constituted a breach of the Ten Commandments, the only correct course of action would be to immediately dismiss the whole crew the moment you embark on your journey.

[@Nosirrbro]

@@dydlus Just because it’s possible to produce crew members without a soul does not prove that cloned crew members, when created legally within federation guidelines, aren’t produced with their original soul. One might posture why this rule even exists, perhaps clones made without their original soul in fact become soulless monsters, perhaps simply unable to be trusted? why else would the federation in such a time of need (and for such an important mission in particular) regulate against infinite cloning if there was not some practical problem with doing so?

[@NoConsequenc3]

@@Nosirrbro considering human souls are inherently imperfect, im not sure how a lack of a soul would make one a monster. It seems to reason that you must have a soul, and it must be bad, for you to become a monster. A hurricane and a bear attack are different, after all.

[@Nosirrbro]

@@NoConsequenc3 Concepts like souls are, at least in our world as it exists now, pretty unfalsifiable, so I'm perfectly happy thinking of them differently than you do in this context arbitrarily

[@habboaddict2]

Not all Abrahamic religions consider a soul to be a substance (like, a spiritual consciousness that is the totality of one’s mind). Some consider the soul to be a form instead, so really the soul is just your unique characteristics. Your actual consciousness and personhood are the products of your brain. In this view, you’re still killing someone even if they’re able to be cloned

[@crispychips7161]

The commandment that states "thou shall not murder." your crews job is to fight rebels. the definition of murder by Google is "the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another." Would you describe a soulders fighting as "unlawful." For example. So I'd advocate that killing rebels isn't unlawful and therefore should not count as "murder". Also per the definition of murder this also discounts killing aliens from murder because the definition is "the unlawful premeditated killing of one HUMAN being by another." This also means that if an alien kills a human it doesn't count as murder.

[@lilyliao9521]

then conult the ftl geneva conventions

[@crispychips7161]

@@lilyliao9521 I must conult with the outer gods

[@NorDank]

There is only one God, also one could count aliens as animals, and the bible doesn't forbid killing animals

[@asherroodcreel640]

Your reaching really hard, if murder is illegal then the holocaust wasn't murder, so we should discard that part, The other species are clearly sentient and that definition exists in a world with out other species capable of speech but we will inveable make ai on a simaler level to our self's I would find it hard to not call that murder so that gos as well and the cold blood thing would mean that crimes of passion and on the fence isn't murder so they should be discarded as well.

[@crispychips7161]

@@asherroodcreel640 not reaching at all. that IS the definition of murder and therefore those the rules i am stating aren't inaccurate and my conclusion isn't considered "reaching". Also the holocaust was a genocide ( genocide: the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.) Though I doubt it matters calling the holocaust a "murder" is inaccurate by the definition of murder. And yes I also wouldn't call destroying a robot "murder" or even "killing" even if the laws where changed or definition of life was different the killing of an android or and android killing a person would still not be classified as murder regardless of how "sentient" the AI is. side note: (sentient is a REALY poor and inaccurate term for what we are talking about so please don't use it.)

[@Verrisin]

9:33 - why is that a problem? That's just the solar flare killing them, as consequence of you destroying their shields. You did not kill them. It's the same as the oxygen.

[@jonathanboram7858]

This was a fun experiment. I think it might be worth going through the game attempting to follow the most simple formulation of the categorical imperative (act only in such a way as you would will your actions to be a universal law) and see how differently it would cause you to act compared to the 10 commandments.

[@Mythtic]

I’m sorry, but in think you failed the challenge on your first jump, saying “the *gods* do not like me today” you broke the first(I think) rule, “thou shalt have no other god than me” Edit: 8:35 if you can’t find it

[@OliverLugg]

Oh no, I said 'the *God Stu* not like me today". That's what I call God. /s In all seriousness, I noticed that in the edit, but decided to let it slide as it was too late to change it.

[@anonnymousperson]

@@OliverLugg And you call them Stu despite the fact that they are obviously grilled?

[@NoConsequenc3]

the issue is worship, not acknowledgement. The Bible references other gods all the time

[@michaelroberts8881]

technically speaking murder is only the unjustified killing of another, you're allowed to kill so long as it's self defense though you should give the enemy every chance to stop, so taking out only their guns and letting them flee would be allowed or if they board they are allowed to be killed since they can't surrender, but that would probably make it a bit too easy

[@benjaminhaupais6470]

You didn't know that the shield room was occupied. The last known position of the ennemi crew was in the other side of the ship, not showing sign of mouvement. So if you are only judge on your actions not their consequences, don't think you failed the challenge at the end (you did at 9min : "the gods" ;).

[@connorschultz380]

Hehm, Acknowledging the existence of other gods Dose not equal Putting them before god, if that was the case the commandment would violate itself as how it's worded Acknowledges the existence of other gods

[@lbfather]

@@connorschultz380 no it probably would. Saying “you shall have no other gods before me” could just as easily mean “I’m the only God” as opposed to “I’m the only God worthy of worship”

[@zacharybarbanell1064]

Doesn't the "mercenary work" event have a chance to be "our friend decided to be a pilot and we need you to go scare him out of it", which doesn't require killing anyone?

[@Wise_That]

Throughout the video, you kept flipping to consequentialism , which is very different than deontology. In fact that's probably its opposite. "Being responsible for the death of" is a consequentialist statement, not a deontological one. There's nothing inherently against the 10 commandments about ordering someone to cut a wire, so you're in the clear, morally. Deontology doesn't care about outcomes and is not consequential (e.g.: Kant and the Murderer at the Door). Through an intention-focused, agent-centered view of Deontology, there is absolutely nothing wrong about "risking" death to someone, as long as you genuinely did not intend your action to kill them. (See: The Doctrine of Double Effect, a mainstay of Catholic thinking, which seems appropriate for this challenge).

[@glitchwolf1384]

I'll just say as a strategy tip, you could potentially do the flagship fight without breaking the 'thou shalt not kill' rule. You just need to fully upgrade your teleporter (so it has a 10 second cooldown) and have mind control (at level 1 it lasts for 14 seconds) So, since a mind-controlled crew will not go to a room on your ship that has no O2 (don't quote me on that, I'm not 100% certain, it would need to be tested) you just close up the teleporter, let it fill with O2, and then mind control one of the rebels on their external weapons, teleport them back, and once the teleport is off cooldown, teleport them to the main section of the enemy ship. Again, this is something no sane person would do, so I'm not sure if they'll go back to their natural positions (aside from the one you save on ion for the first fight, because their station is gone) between fights, but it'd be a good way to find out. You could snag them from all 4 rooms, do the fight, blow up a quarter of the ship so no one dies, next fight, if they're back in position it gets annoying and you likely need ZSB for the third phase, if they're still on the main ship (which is unlikely, given that the rebel flagship generates new crew for each phase. You can tell because the names change) then just keep wailing on them. Eventually, you'll get to the final phase. What's so special about the final phase? They have a teleporter! Open up your teleporter room to the void again and let them all hop over one by one to die from their own bad life choices. Then, the AI will activate, and while by all rights it should be counted as a being you can't kill... do it anyway. I doubt its counted as a person under federation law, otherwise you'd be able to have an ai-controlled ship.

[@boomday1160]

i have used the mind control trick on the boss i think with the shrike even and the mid controlled crew definitely dont care if there is oxygen where they are going or not

[@DPortain]

My deontological take on the three dilemmas: 1) Defusing the mine and preserving the ship is your responsibility as a captain. The death of the crewmember is not your fault, as long as you sent the member that was the most qualified for the job. 2) The Mantis ship did not explicitly abandon the fuel containers, so they're still considered Mantis property and your actions can be considered theft. Them attacking you is not relevant for that consideration. 3) Listening in to two slug ships is a breach of autonomy and privacy. While not directly a violation of the ten commandments, it's unethical under deontology.

[@AderynCrow]

I think you could've let the first ship die, as the sun would've killed it and they're to be blamed for being there in the first place. You simply disabled their shield and you would've done so even if there was no sun. However, I don't think you can take scrap from Autoscouts as they're property of the rebel fleet, which is still alive and thus taking the scrap was theft

[@beriukay]

I'm starting to get the sense that this particular deontology could be swapped with "do any of the things on the list, as long as you don't profit off of it" and it wouldn't be any different. Consequentially speaking, of course.

[@Spoonishpls]

I just picked this game up last week and I'm addicted. I hate permadeath games, I'm more a Stardew kinda girl, but something so charming about this little game just got me

[@asherroodcreel640]

What do you mean star dew valley is wayyyyy more punishing then purma death

[@jontedeakin1986]

Oh sickest shit ever. Your ftl video made me reach out to the writer on a whim, and the dude actually gave me advice on my degree at uni. You both are absolute legends

[@asherroodcreel640]

What did he say?

[@jontedeakin1986]

@@asherroodcreel640 i was going into a comp sci degree and i asked why he switched to philosophy. I also played one of his games (based on propositional logic) and asked if he ever considered making one on a more complicated logic. Additionally at the end of that game it teased another one but i didnt have the five bucks to play it. He said that he switched from comp sci to philosophy becayse he wasnt prepared for all the maths and didnt really want to do it. Additionally he enjoyed talking about his thoughts much more than programming. He also said he didnt really know any of the more complicated logics and didnt have the brain for it, though he suggested i should go for it. He also sent me a copy of the demo (for free! What a legend) but said i shouldnt play it as it was just a half finished version of another game he ended up actually releasing.

[@asherroodcreel640]

@@jontedeakin1986 neat thanks, takes a lot of maturity to understand that about yourself, also what games where they

[@jontedeakin1986]

@@asherroodcreel640 i didnt say originally cause i coiuldt remember. But i found em! The first one was Ir/rational (maybe redux) and the game demo was for Ir/rational investigator

[@asherroodcreel640]

@@jontedeakin1986 cool thanks, why do you think so many people here are miserable at ethics?

[@XZ1680]

Came for the category theory. Stayed for the philosophically engaged FTL content.

[@shaneplumb-saumure7723]

Ion weapons. Duh. They don't kill, period. I've completed 3 pacifist runs in FTL Multiverse. Ion weapons are key. EVERY enemy will surrender when all their systems are down (except drones, but I assumed they were sentient, so they were the hardest encounters - you have to survive them until they flee, and the same thing kinda works on all but the last stage of the flagship), and the only way to do that is with ions. Focus on defense/evasion too, committing power to weapons that might kill/destroy someone is, IMO, counter to the spirit of the challenge. Flak is a murder weapon, unacceptable. Gotta say, seemed like a n00bish pacifist run, but I'm excited to see you try harder. The story-driven extra moral challenge is worth exploring.

[@glitchwolf1384]

Ion surrender was added in Multiverse though, so that won't work for this challenge, which is to do it on vanilla FTL.

[@giuseppevgiordano]

@@glitchwolf1384 dunno what you are talking about, ion weapons are in the game since launch

[@Xhechaos]

"I assumed they were sentient" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[@mrgrork]

At 13:50 you have the ability to purchase sensors from the first store you find. You previously argued the lack of sensors was a loophole that you could take advantage of, since you didn’t know whether you were shooting at injured crew. I would argue that a true deontologist play through would immediately prioritize finding a shop and buying sensors before anything else in the run so you know 100% you aren’t killing people. But that besides, you chose not to purchase sensors and instead thought of yourself and your own defenses. Thats a game over right there

[@Verrisin]

7:00 - aah, yes. deontologist? Moral hoops, here we jump!

[@Scienceboy0]

9:15 I feel like we have a Schrodinger's murder situation here.

[@WindGodMatt]

3:15 that commandment is actually saying "Do not use God's name to justify your actions" more than saying "You can't say God as an expletive" - as you can imagine, a lot of people have this misunderstanding.

[@jacobkrieger6682]

Instead of affixation for dealing with boarders he could have started with a ship that has hacking and then when he ran into a boarder event jump until he runs into a enemy ship with a teleporter, hack their teleporter and warp the boarders onto some random enemy ship instead of just letting them suffocate which would let him turn the other cheek and love his neighbor more thoroughly

[@MegaKnodel]

It is a good day when mr. Lugg releases a video

[@Izerion]

So many people commenting about the verbal slip up re: "other god(s)", but only one other person noticed that at 17:08 you attacked an automated scout with the goal of stealing supplies from the station it was guarding. Tsk tsk. And the fact that the station just happened to not having anything worth stealing doesn't get you off the hook either as this is a consequentialist argument 😏

[@rossstewart9475]

There was no moral quandary surrounding the defusal of the mine, either deontologically or consequentially: You as captain didn't send a crewmember out, you simply pointed out to your crew that *someone* had to go out there and attempt to defuse it.

[@rolledlemon3113]

Well that was a short run 8:35

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

Why would defending oneself with your full available force equate to committing murder? I don't think it can be murder if it wasn't a *premeditated* killing, so you wouldn't be able to go after someone, but killing in self-defense would be alright, unless you put yourself in a position where you planned to be attacked. Also, couldn't it be argued that if they aren't human, they cannot be murdered? Most definitions specify that murder is the premeditated killing of another "human being." Not all ships in this game contain human beings. They mostly contain other kinds of beings.

[@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999]

i wouldnt consider any killing as murder, there's some exceptions.

[@yonatanbeer3475]

Yeah agreed, Judaism holds killing in self defense as fine. This would mean that provoking others would be forbidden, but if the enemy attacks you first then you may attack them. This also fits well with how I'd consider a "morality run" of FTL to go

[@TheScroinkeningBegins]

the only time it wouldnt be okay to kill is if the enemy is running away and he has high health

[@Wise_That]

The commandment is Thou Shalt Not Kill. Any killing, any reason. Arguably even killing animals is wrong.

[@yonatanbeer3475]

@@Wise_That No one has ever in the history of the world interpreted it this way.

[@MrAaaaazzzzz00009999]

@@Wise_That go to hell for killing your own cells then eh

[@cheziboiinfloat1852]

I'm sorta catholic, so when I saw that title and length without realizing it was you I about joined the Lord by choking on water, I applaud you sir

[@patrickhaworth7122]

It says no murder. Most of the fighting is fully justifiable self defence. Not murder.

[@freddypowell7292]

It depends on the translation used I think. I'm pretty sure the version used here (likely based on the king James translation) is 'Thou shalt not kill'.

[@asherroodcreel640]

@@freddypowell7292 king james best version most executed translators

[@freddypowell7292]

@@asherroodcreel640 There are advantages and disadvantages to every translation. The king James version is a very commonly used version, and certainly has a certain majesty of tone, but can unfortunately be fairly inaccurate in translation.

[@asherroodcreel640]

@@freddypowell7292 yeah I know, it can be really beautiful a lot of the time, I suppose it doesn't matter how accurate it is, the people who warship texts in gernal have never really cared about truth. Thank you for helping me make peace with the king james bible, I'll have to read through it sometime

[@freddypowell7292]

@@asherroodcreel640 I mean, of course those who would worship the text itself wouldn't care about the truth, though if you have faith in the message thereof then the accuracy of translation absolutely does matter. For example, this exact case. To one who really does care about the commandments, whether one is forbidden ever to kill or just forbidden to murder can have grave consequences, and accuracy of translation is absolutely important. After all, a christian or jew doesn't care about following the law per se but about following the commands of the authority that gave the law (sort of, I'm not sure exactly what the relationship of the jews to the law is). Those who believe that the texts they have are valid sources can be very diligent in seeking the truth, within the understanding that those sources are valid. It's worth remembering that nearly every single great thinker in European history believed the gospels, up until maybe a hundred years ago (and excluding the greeks and romans, who had their own faiths). Indeed, many of the fundamental principles and values of western society are a result of the religion, such as the sanctity of human life, and the rule of law. It is obvious then that religion does not blind a person, but can often make them more receptive to the truth.

[@shilohmagic7173]

24:16 you're not responsible for the outcome, only the action-without knowledge of what the outcome could be, you are absolved.

[@TehJumpingJawa]

If you're allowed to fire on a ship, because you don't know if there's crew in the rooms, then surely you're allowed to blow up said ship because for all you know it's on auto-pilot. A blind and deaf man can shoot a gun without guilt.

[@VivBrodock]

funfact: יהוה was a member of the Canaanite pantheon. Gradually he absorbed the roles of some gods and other gods became subordinate to him like Baal Astarte Mot etc. this new arrangement of deities is known as Yahwism. During the Iron Age the Israelites moved to a monotheism, solidified by the Babylonian exile. This was actually two different monotheistic ethnoreligions, Judaism and Samaritanism. The main difference between the two being that the Samaritans believe our Torah has become corrupted and no longer serves the will of God. They believe the Samaritan Pentateuch remains the original unedited text from when Moses guided the Israelites home.

[@CTCTraining1]

Firing at a ship and being ignorant of the definite consequences sounds like the Oscar Pistorius defence. Colour me unimpressed ... but the rest was fun. 😀👍 Maybe the biblical aspect you were most missing was the “chosen people” vibe which could have given you as much leeway as required when dealing with enemies.

[@cookies23z]

I play FTL:Multiverse as a "pretty good" person, I crew kill the slavers and set the slaves free (since that is now an option), I let the rebels who are supplying civilians go, and dont steal, I dont threaten most people, I let some ships escape, I even spare rebels occasionally... well... this seems impossible even for vanilla on easy, well, maybe not fully impossible, but anyways, even "I" breach the commandments, and not just "dont murder" since I have robbed a grave for a piece of the pre-igniter quest, and run away from the gaurd

[@PenguinOverlord4555]

schrodinger's murder, the enemy crew is neither dead nor alive until I turn on the sensors.

[@purplewabbit7848]

@Oliver lugg 'the creators' (of the game) - the game was made by a indy developper (From hong kong). I'm not sure if he was interviewed in the documentary/movie about FEZ and indy games, but, even if it wasn't too long ago it was before discord and all interactions with the community and the dev were on forums. regardless, dude mostly made FTL by himself.

[@anonymooseplays3905]

You were pretty lucky at 18:12 Had you found any loot, you would've been stealing from the rebels.

[@miniman3112]

I didn't even dare to hope for a SECOND FTL video on this channel, incredible news!

[@mariaandjosequiceno4663]

Love your videos mate. Thank you for the unique gameplay!

[@GeFlixes]

I do believe when the ten commandments were written they were meant to apply only to your tribe. Things like looting and killing in war were fine. You can add that in your mind at the end of each commmandments: Thou shalt not kill [members of your tribe]. In FTL context I'd interpret that as: You're at war, so you're allowed to kill. EXCEPT if they're either Federation or your species (in this case, lanius). More narrow: You are allowed to kill Rebel soldiers only.

[@lbfather]

I doubt it, Ancient Israel seemed to hold other nations accountable for breaking the commandments because they applied them as a sort of universal law. However “thou shall not murder” is probably mistranslated as “thou shall not kill.” The concept of just warfare isn’t unbiblical, so it can be inferred that things like perhaps killing in battle or in defense of someone or something is justified. This allowed the Israelites to war over other nations because the other ones did things like baby sacrifice, which would fall under the category of defending others.

[@Sierpina_WMG]

Yeah, I can't imagine what background this guy has with religions to think that the situation in FTL is morally unambigous. THE OTHER SHIPS ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU FIRST. It is basic self-defense. That's like saying a (input branch of christianity) has to let himself be killed because killing someone who ATTEMPTS murder is wrong. Entire history of religion is mostly RIDDLED with jusifying killing and looting other tribes.

[@brown_note4710]

I found out if you kill all the slavers you get to choose a slave, it says “you want to let them go but you demand the help of one” or something like that and you can’t skip it or say no

[@olly123451]

It’s a good showing of the issue of moral absolutism. You cannot be expected to follow any moral framework completely without being forced to corrupt your own values when faced with as many moral quandaries as we are in real life, let alone a video game. Great video as always 😊

[@vasenkasi4846]

45 minutes of most twisted logic excusing all the killing and stealing.

[@delhatton]

well done. impressive display of sophistry

[@PersistentKoffing]

Oli. Papa. You're spoiling us over here. Two videos in one month?

[@tepig2828]

I wonder, if you were calling the attack against the rebels a crusade, would that not allow you to kill the rebels without repercussion?

[@asherroodcreel640]

Dause vault

[@NoConsequenc3]

No, because the commandments are more powerful than the church. The physical world does not come before the spiritual.

[@veryangryduckpl2122]

​@@NoConsequenc3 I think it depends on the part of christianity you are in.

[@trybunt]

​@@NoConsequenc3if you truly believe God wants you to go on a crusade, then it wouldn't be the church. Just like any moral framework, this one must be interpreted by fallible human beings.

[@UnstableEquilibrium]

While it's not mentioned in the 10 commandments specifically, free will is a huge part of some interpretations of Christianity. Thus mind-control could be disallowed in a harder variation of the challenge.

[@MouldMadeMind]

It is specifically mentioned before that god diesn't care about free will.

[@wombatpandaa9774]

I have to be that guy and step in to say that the commandment to not kill refers specifically to murder, or killing with intent. So killing in self-defense or out of some sort of obligation (like a soldier in the military), or even perhaps in protection of another who cannot defend themselves, absolution may be possible, to varying degreed of confidence. So not quite as hard as "don't kill people."

[@NOSHEDMANTIS]

Wouldn't taking scrap from auto-scouts be considered stealing from the Federation?

[@Argosh]

The message when they stop firing is when all crew members die XD

[@patrick247two]

Moral ambiguity is a twisted path.

[@oozb]

The commandment to not murder does not in fact preclude killing in self defense, nor even lawful killings such as in defense of others. This run would be much easier if another interpretation of the commandment was used.

[@just-mees]

I like the fact that you start post hoc justifying why a variant of the trolley problem isn't your fault. Like, I think the ten commandments say "do not kill" and not "do not cause fatal accidents" you didn't kill that crew member.

[@ZennZennster]

There is an important distinction between "Kill" and "Murder". Self defense is permissible.

[@lostbutfreesoul]

My favourite President of Hell would love your arguments....

[@TheDavidlloydjones]

"The greatest good of the greatest number: choose one."

[@aidandanielski]

hilariously tongue and cheek retrological morality.

[@unknownusername9335]

Run lost at 8:34 "The gods do not like me today". Either you acknowledged the existence of other gods or you took the name of your one true God in vain.

[@MonkeySimius]

As far as I know the ten commandments don't ban killing people. It bans murdering people. Which are two very different things. Not that it matters, I guess, because you could have chosen a different prescribed moral code that forced you down a pacifist run. But not being able to follow those particular moral codes wouldn't mean it is impossible to beat the game following more reasonable, yet still strict, moral codes. Fun video though. Keep up the good work.

[@prysthaea7735]

It's been so long since I played base FTL, I forgot that the airlock sound that plays when you 'dismiss' a crew member came from the Multiverse mod. Was really hoping for that to be the punchline at 5:45.

[@lbfather]

I hate it when people say dismissing crew kills them when there’s multiple events in game where you drop people off at a nearby beacon or planet or station or something.

[@efenty6235]

thou shalt not murder in it's orthodox interpretation definitely permits killing the enemy in war

[@supertinnietank]

Also murder and causing something to die are not the same. Deaths as a result of (but not limited to): food preparation, holy sacrifice, punishment for criminal offense, warfare, and self defense; are specifically not murders.

[@Montegoraon]

1:58 Shortest Trip to Earth is that kind of game.

[@TheCreapler]

love the use of a generally know things like the ten commandments and then make it a challenge, I had about 1000 hours in FTL but I have been playing the FTL Multiverse mod and now I am about 3000 hours it's worth playing if you have mastered and basically 100% the vanilla game the mod feels like a paid expansion before the day's of DLC's were the norm.

[@mattcat83]

Why did you leave your doors open instead of unpowering the O2 then closing the doors once O2 hit 0%? The door system would help mitigate system damage.

[@matthewhannigan1916]

Someone has almost definitely said this and you don't care, but as a philosophy student my soul shall be burdened forever if I don't mention that Kant specifically rejected religious dogma or revelation as a source of moral duty. He was religious and would almost certainly have followed each of the 10 commandments (perhaps not even all of them), but not because they were commandments, but because he happened to believe they were moral anyway.

[@realityveil6151]

Any game that requires or seems to require that you destroy an other for a perceived greater good is utilitarian by definition. There, other viewer, saved you 45 minutes.

[@asherroodcreel640]

So what your saying is saints row is utilitarian? To see the out look of a game one must look at your possable actions and the environments responsice to those actions not just the primise

[@blazelo1301]

This is the most inspired challenge run I've ever seen. Of anything.

[@handoverthestromboli6715]

getting the zoltan peace convey on the event should be the real goal. Get to sector 5 Zoltan Homeworlds and pray you find the peace questline

[@jeice13]

Im pretty sure that commandment is supposed to forbid "murder" not "killing" which could make this much easier

[@mackinbox]

Actually, killing the invaders of your ship would be totally ok, because killing in self-defense is not considered murder by the Catholic church

[@RicardoMenson]

every challenge run includes some amount of mental gymnastics, and it's not the worst example

[@stevekgoodwin]

The clone bay... if you know your crew will be alive after they're dead, then obviously they weren't killed and your Immortal Soul survives another jump. Does the crew member's soul survive the Clone Bay's resurrection? Not important! :-)

[@tritoner1221]

isn't destroying drones and taking their scrap technically stealing from the owner of said drone?

[@boldCactuslad]

but you see, this (points at universe) is federation land, so by having these agressive drones here they must have taken the materials from us. we are just... reclaiming our own property. yes... perfectly moral.

[@cheziboiinfloat1852]

I believe this to be a bad representation of someone following the rules strictly, murder and killing are considered different in some sects, I believe the difference is that if you desire to murder them it is killing, if you have to because it's your job it is killing. So base understanding is that sin is interpersonal and not observable by outsiders (sometimes it is) so by judgement you can kill enemies but only if you have to such for a job, plus it's funny because you're still going to break the rules because we suck

[@cameronsmith3047]

This is prior to watching the attempt, however there is a decent argument the notion that in ftl utilitarianism is morally right. The game kinda explicitly shows that neither you or the rebels are moraly right, so doing what is required for victory has nothing to do with morality

[@GoldenH]

"mental gymnastics"... this is why we can't have ethicists being dentologists

[@crawhey]

Fun Fact: the tenth is a thought crime. The act of yearning or having the feeling to desire is against the rules. By wanting to finish the game with any set of arbitrary rules is against the rules.

[@lbfather]

I think you misunderstand the meaning of that. The commandment in question more than likely means “don’t covet other peoples things.” In other words, don’t be jealous and instead be grateful of what you have. While the plain reading is “thou shall not covet” there are many instances in the Bible were desires for good are promoted, so I doubt that desiring ANYTHING being bad is what Moses was teaching as bad.

[@heitortremor]

This is a really good challenge

[@jebbrown9981]

Demonstrates some lack of understanding of the Ten Commandments somewhat undermining the validity of the experiment. But it’s still an interesting run

[@redhaze8080]

Ya can't win a war without killing some peeps. Deep shit bro 🤣

[@pendragonchen]

I feel the need to make a mod that adds in the opportunity to commit adultery, take the name of the lord thy god in vain, and to bear false witness into ftl

[@readyforlol]

17:06... isn't that theft ?

[@bonzibuddy4483]

You pointed out how every player will inevitably become utilitarian in their play because that is the maximal playstyle. You called it "capitalism" at the time, but the point is the same.

[@arttulohva1869]

31:00 You could've first listened to their offer, and if my memory serves me right, in that event you only have to damage a ship enough to make it surrender.

[@TheCyberneticVortex]

Looking through your back catalog, was disappointed to learn that Shrike wasn't a reference to Hyperion

[@fallenaspie]

i adore your channel

[@kamilrichert8446]

I can't believe he skipped long range scanner smh. On more serious note, great video!

[@Self-replicating_whatnot]

I wonder if it's easier to weasel out of moral responsibility as a utilitarian or a deontologist. There seem to be plenty of loopholes either way.