FULL INTERVIEW - Steve Sederwall & Billy the Kid

Michael's full interview with Steve Sederwall for the upcoming documentary "The Billy the Kid Tapes".
#billythekid #brushybillroberts #johnmiller #patgarrett #lincolncountywar #fortsumner #hico #prescott #pals #regulators #truth #history

[@Azzy5146]

This is why the legend of the the kid is so fascinating to me, we know more than than we think we know, but still don't know a damn thing!

[@greg19071961]

So true Dan! Well said.👍

[@greg19071961]

I think this is your best interview yet Michael! Steve Sederwell IS the real deal, cop/ investigator...I HAVE to read his book! I really like him...a straight shooter, no bs. I watched all of Gale Cooper's podcasts when I initially became fascinated with The Kid...before I knew any of this 😮 It's becoming more and more interesting. 🐎🌵

[@rayjordan4988]

...U said it, Bridget B: This is Michael's BEST, most informative Interview yet! Indeed: Steve Sederwall is a real 'straight-shooter;' he's very objective in his reasoning & logical deductions, and he doesn't jump to conclusions; Steve simply sees what is visible & obvious, and he allows THAT to do the talking. In other words, "stupid is as stupid does" (Forrest Gump, 1994); Steve can't fix Stupid: He only can observe it, experience its ramifications, and watch it aimlessly try to run Aristotelian Logic into the Ground😳👀😵‍💫

[@richardburchell7312]

Yes is a great read very interesting book Worth reading Guys

[@rickwebb5681]

I just tried to listen to one of Gale Coopers pod casts and I couldn't get past the 15 minute mark. I don't find her to be a good presentation person. What little I listened to seemed like more her opinion than fact based.

[@mikedickson6362]

@@richardburchell7312 what is the name of the book would love to read it?

[@blaze3884]

​@@rickwebb5681Brett Hall and Daniel Edwards. They have done decades of research on Billy. Anyone else is hawking opinions and hearsay.

[@hurricaneaquatics]

I'm 31 minutes into this interview and Steve KNOWS much more than he's willing to tell. He's being threatened by someone who has something on him or can affect his way of life. I would deduce that from Steve's demeanor, he knows Billy the Kid wasn't killed on that table.

[@SumDumGy]

He doesn’t seem to be willing to tell anything, unless it’s a tactic to push people to buy his book. When he asked if he’s making “us” want to pull our hair out, he knew exactly what he was doing.

[@justind8648]

Great interview Michael. Man, I wish whoever it was that stopped these guys whether it was Gale or somebody else would have just left things alone. I would really like to see where the dna they gathered would take this thing. Hopefully someday. Thanks for posting!

[@rickwebb5681]

This is a great interview. Just ordered Steve's Book, can't wait to read it!! It's driving me nuts!!

[@hiltonmclaurin]

Removes all doubt that at this point any new book written about BTK is strictly for personal gain. Sederwall and Sullivan have made it much more difficult for contemporary researchers especially along the lines of DNA findings to be taken seriously. IMHO

[@SedatKulafofski-eh5pc]

Steve sounds like a down to earth, no frills type of guy. Rare on the internet these days.

[@mickstunes6383]

That was riveting. Can see why some have alot to be worried about by further investigation.

[@jamesherrington5606]

Wow! I clicked this thinking it was some random, boring bs. Nope! This is excellent! Thank you for posting.

[@bigal5323]

I met Steve and his lovely wife about 10 years ago at his business and we all talked for hours about all the holes in The Billy the kid death . I have to say I believe Steve vs Pat Garretts claim to fame. Garrett did the one thing that makes no sense to me? Why would Garrett refuse to allow photos of Billy's dead body or public viewing? In those days if a bad wanted person was killed they made a huge display of the body! So why did Garrett hide this? My guess, because he killed the wrong guy!

[@cliffordthornton9806]

Same reason why there are no pictures of Tom Ofoliard dead or Charlie Bowdre dead or Dick Brewer or John Tunstall. I don’t get why everyone wonders why there are no pictures of dead Billy. It just didn’t happen. Cameras weren’t in everyone’s pocket back then. It was very rare to even have a camera.

[@lobogary6990]

Just finished reading in the shadow of Billie the Kid it gave me a great deal deeper understanding of the Lincoln county war and made me think Billy or Billie was not such a big player, but was used by very powerful people to cover their miss deeds. Some what of a patsy, and a fall guy. But never less a participant in some what youthful miss guidance, and maybe exuberance, not knowing he was being played. Thanks for all your work.

[@jackiemoon7559]

I agree,it was always political & STILL is!I believed they even made the courthouse story up & from there on it became a "legend"

[@Yup71719]

@@jackiemoon7559 who made it up? there were several witnesses

[@BullyHeadTM]

Great interview!👍👍He kept hinting to you MAG that he opened the door for you on some certain things to dig a little deeper on.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

maybe I did when we turned the mics off? :-)

[@lobogary6990]

Great interview thank you

[@davidwarman4290]

Great interview. A lot of potential new information to unfold.

[@pickititllneverheal9016]

Seems like any, and every time politicians, or politics is involved, the lies, corruption, and greed are never far behind. It's shameful, and disgusting.

[@teresawommack5148]

I love Steve Sederwall he is a good cop and knows a lot about this case. He knows a lot about Garrett and all those guys. Steve to me is a HERO!!

[@larry1824]

I think we all have a personal Billy. Been studying him since the 70s but I don't worry too much anymore about getting the facts just right. The Kid represents someone who made a reckless grab at freedom. Whether he was right or left handed doesn't matter as much as it once did to me. I think Estevez came closest in the first movie. Coburn remains the definitive Pat with Dehner a close second.

[@mr31337]

Steve seems like such a nice guy. I just read his "The Dirty on BTK" book (which is incredible) and this interview was great to watch.

[@derekbrown2988]

Just finished his book and I've been thinking about this all weekend. So we got two different people that they put on that work bench. At least one of them bleed out all over it meaning they were still alive when they placed them there (looks like there was an accidental shooting) We know from newspaper articles that there were other parties chasing Billy and the official search for him was called off in May 1881 due to reports that he had fled to Texas. John Miller was supposedly shot on July 8th in or around Ft. Sumner. I believe this was the catalyst that got Poe to drag Garrett up to Ft. Sumner to investigate. There are also pictures of John Miller's teeth in Sederwall's book. Miller's front right tooth is crooked and in front of the other just like Billy's. I was looking through newspaper articles from 1881 and found three, as early as July 22 1881 that gives a description of the body saying Billy had grew a beard and stained his skin with some kind of root to look Mexican. I think it was either Poe or Mckinney that shot someone by mistake. Poe basically spills the beans when he said the wrong man was shot. In Sederwall's book he basically tells you that he thinks John Miller was Billy the Kid.

[@attilathehun0]

Derek Brown The newspaper claiming Billy the Kid's corpse being stained brown and full beard is nonsense. It comes from Ashenfelter's article 'Exit Billy the Kid' it ain't no obituary and he was not there for the burial he was in Silver City.

[@derekbrown2988]

Nonsense. Billy the Kid turned himself into a Mexican bro.

[@attilathehun0]

@@derekbrown2988 🤣🤣Good One!

[@derekbrown2988]

@@ferdburfel6347 It actually comes from several different newspaper articles with sources coming out of Ft. Sumner prior to S.M. Ashenfelter's article. It you go on the newspapers website and google Billy the Kid July 14 you will find them. One said he rubbed his skin with a root to look Mexican and another said he put his skin through a colorization process to look Mexican. There is also an article from May 1881 that said Billy the Kid had painted himself brown to look like a Mexican and is riding with a band of 40 men. So "Mexican Billy" actually predates July 14 1881.

[@hurricaneaquatics]

Steve's book just came in today and I can't wait to start reading it.

[@jmiller1977]

I’m not terribly impressed with this guy I’ve seen before and I thought he might be OK but he doesn’t seem to be really articulate on details or have an opinion about certain things that he really shouldn’t have an opinion on or be considering if he really is an investigator investigator

[@henriksjolund8162]

Can't wait until I get off work so I can watch it! Only 8 hours left..

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Enjoy!

[@bradgaines]

So he had a sample of blood taken from the bench but he doesn't want to test it? Am I missing something??

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

It was tested. Blend of 2 individuals. Nothing to match it to at that time.

[@bradgaines]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi I guess I should have said having the DNA separated and then testing to see if it was someone that could have been Billy (age, race, ect) I guess the cost of doing this is the reason why they haven't. Can I pay for it? haha

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@bradgaines at the time it was cost prohibitive. I think now it might be within reach.

[@bradgaines]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi That would be epic to prove it was the actual bench they laid him on. I bet that would fetch a big price at auction.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@bradgaines Bill Koch owns the bench now so it’s probably not going anywhere. I’m thinking it sold for about 300k

[@jimmiedavis1693]

What is the name of his book that talks about the things discussed in this video? I must have missed it.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

The Dirty on Billy the Kid

[@sharonmuzik]

Are these pictures of John Miller and/or his teeth available anywhere online?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

should be....check on the Cold West site on Facebook

[@teamjanzeslife8741]

Great Podd 😃

[@darrenadams7011]

How would you do a dna test? What is there to compare dna to?

[@blaze3884]

One thing Mr Sederwall said I completely agree with. When asked how he feels about Gail Cooper, he said "I don't". I don't either. She's a nutcase.

[@cliffordthornton9806]

She is the most logical and fact driven person on this entire BTK thing. I’ve read her books and followed her stuff and it is all based on facts not on fantastical imagination.

[@SumDumGy]

So you feel she’s a nutcase.

[@SumDumGy]

@@cliffordthornton9806If any of that were remotely accurate, she’d support, not oppose, efforts to uncover more facts and truth.

[@ole5539]

And therein lies the meat of the matter: She is a tenacious foe of anything outside her conclusions.@@SumDumGy

[@kurtmortimore3778]

Where can I watch the documentary??

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

We decided against finishing it. All of the interviews we shot are on this channel.

[@jonwillson2461]

I would love to know what the pair of you spoke about afterwards x

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

I'm not allowed to say....

[@jonwillson2461]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi bless you 🤣

[@sarawhitfield5415]

so maybe I missed it mentioned but I haven't heard anyone bring it up too much but if there is a bullet-hole in the right wall of the courthouse staircas then could that not indicate that Billy only tried to fire a warning shot to scare Bell into stopping and richoceting into him would render his death more on the accidental side Brushy Bill as much as said so (which also causes me to wonder if any of Brushy's detractors have actually ever read Alias Billy in it's entirety)

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

The bullet hole was made years later. There are zero contemporary accounts of a bullet hole in the wall at that time. Additionally, the landing at that time was some 6 steps higher than it is today. I've read Alias BTK a number of times, all the way through, and laugh each time I get to another ridiculous and easily disproven story that Morrison and Sonnichen told.

[@ole5539]

Curious, your opinion of WC Jameson and Daniel Edwards as BTK sources.@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi

[@nedrakrodgers7976]

The Pecos River flooded and washed the old cemetery out. No one knows where the grave really was and whether Billy was in it to begin with

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

That’s untrue. Documented and proven to be a false statement. Check the report of Charles Dudrow and Company.

[@nedrakrodgers7976]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi Funny. I lived there for 5 years in the early80’s and visited often with the elderly Hispanic community. Guess they didn’t know

[@lobogary6990]

What was talked about outside?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Top secret....

[@jmiller1977]

This Gail woman why would she sue and on what grounds?

[@slimrichard6817]

Got a lot of respect for Steve Sederwall straight forward . Enjoyed The cold case idea The Dirty on Billy . Excellent interview.

[@tammyparsons1597]

I'm curious who the second set of DNA belonged to. Was Garret wounded at the time of Billy's killing (or whatever happened).

[@SumDumGy]

Is there any reason to assume both sets of blood are related to one another?

[@richardpierce7819]

I also believe Brushy Bill's story is true.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Here’s a tip. It’s not.

[@DLN1138]

I'm just dipping my toe into the rabbit hole here, I'm a little naive. Would there be any objection in digging up the Brother for dna? Floods and cemetary movements wouldnt put doubt on who or where bones are. Could that be compared to bench?

[@DLN1138]

I've just ordered a few books to help Me find My own conclusions by the way, had to ask though.

[@coreyhinman5221]

Nothing more annoying than giving one word answers and waiting for the interviewer to ask for more info

[@sharonmuzik]

Curiouser and curiouser.....

[@levibrewer4304]

Hello Steve.

[@user-sh4rj4ir5x]

Tell us the hole's ?

[@christopherhughes6919]

Rumor has it that Billy's skull was dug up by the shadowy fraternity Skull & Bones. The same fraternity dozens of ex presidents belong to. They have a collection of famous and infamous skeletons they use for initiations.

[@jonathanbaggs4275]

Ok im a bit lost - who is this gail person ? Did she write a book or something?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Many books. Look up Gale Cooper.

[@jonathanbaggs4275]

Ok. Thanks. Have you done a show on her, etc., to bring folks who don't know much about her up to speed? I gather she has a point of view that is unpopular? I'm an old newspaper reporter, former historian for NASA"s Marshall Space Flight Center in huntsville, ala., and write local and regional history books so it piqued my curiosity during the interview as to what exactly she is all about. Love your KZbin show and don't think I've missed an episode yet. But could be mistaken.

[@brianramsey3824]

If u watch her youtube vids u tell me if u believe her. If u also hear her say it was essentially her vocation of photinsic psychology her credibility on said subject is important to her.

[@tjingram1207]

@@jonathanbaggs4275 are you still around Huntsville Alabama ?

[@dustybear7476]

49:50 to 54:07 potentially interesting conversation 🤔

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

I'll never tell!

[@teamjanzeslife8741]

They discuss their future possibilities to create a hard rock's band called Brushy bastard's!🤣

[@fleadoggreen9062]

Seems like a level headed guy !

[@thisissoutheastasia6456]

Charlie and possibly Tom if next to charlie are still in a prison a cage. Possibly probably Billy too. Wish he did escape. Do we free BTK talking about him and keeping his Name , past and legend alive or not letting him rest In the peace life didn't fairly give him. I don't really know myself. I do know legends never die... Billy does deserve the Legend status for better or worse as victim of the times. Imagine what e could of been if born decades later and raised by a loving family and had opportunities to be someone else. But we wouldn't be talking about him. -RIP Billy!!

[@jasonarrington7697]

It’s all about money. It’s a shame to say

[@rhett4027]

Sederwell is deflecting the questions and has no real facts. It's like listening to a politician talk.

[@davidmorgan1957]

Was he that tall, or you that short?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Both

[@karenfinneganart2480]

wow, So Pat Garrett was a cattle rustler, is that what I heard? or just a drover? Man the west was complex

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Buffalo Hunter. I'm certain Garrett walked on both sides of the law like most did back then

[@karenfinneganart2480]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi ah Buffalo hunter, I was listening at some ungodly hour in the morning and was phasing in and out lol.

[@amy.gauthier]

Michael…. 😳

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

What did I miss?

[@amy.gauthier]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi The info is fascinating but wildly frustrating. Any interest in a conversation with Gale Cooper?

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@amy.gauthier Sure...but she's changed her email and phone and I cannot get in contact with her anymore. I'd be more than happy to have her on the show.

[@laurelsheart]

We’d like to hear from Gale and Mr. Koch since they are players in this story. Especially William Koch who may have DNA results already that he might share with us.

[@rayjordan4988]

...So much 4 'Gale the Cooper's Writings, Words, and Wit' (2018); her isolationist behavior really shroud's her impressive revisionist history of Billy the Kid. Gale's purposeful contactless, stand-off behavior is much akin to Governor Lew Wallace's purposeful ignorance of Billy's attempts to contact him while Billy was in jail in Santa Fe, just a few blocks down the street from the Governor's Mansion: 1 Jan, 2 March 1881 (2018; pp.402-3). 😢💔😵‍💫

[@user-uf7fw7hl7k]

Pat Garrett was the con not the kid

[@DWWildR]

First find you a lawyer that would offer his or her time to open this back up again. Play thier game and sue everyone of them back. File in every county in New Mexico for stepping on your rights. Keep them in court spinning. keep looking for the real grave

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

Why would you think anyone has rights to dig up a grave of someone they are not related to?

[@DWWildR]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissiAny individual in New Mexico,has the right to request authorization from a New Mexico judge to conduct an exhumation, especially for the purpose of a DNA test or to confirm the presence of the body. It's crucial to understand that this requires demonstrating a valid legal reason, such as historical research or resolving disputes., especially in cases involving suspected fraud, historical integrity, and public interest, deceptive claims about Billy the Kid's burial site.

[@DWWildR]

@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi "Any individual has the right to demand a New Mexico judge authorize an exhumation as an investigation for truth, especially in cases involving suspected fraud, historical integrity, and public interest, such as any town's , person , or government deceptive claims about Billy the Kid's burial site. These would be a few reasons why one would have a right. Not to mention dealing with New Mexico is not for the weak. And it will take a a pit bull lawyer to bulldoze this topic who is not in it for money , or the individual who is not seeking fame having nothing to lose but to find out the truth.

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

@@DWWildR Interesting. Of course, it would require consent of any living next of kin as well. That did in the 1960 attempt and of course, 2003 failed too. I wonder why you would believe that there are deceptive claims about Billy's grave? There's never been a dispute about the location, from July 15, 1881 until today.

[@DWWildR]

​@@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi In New Mexico, a judge can issue orders to protect the site and address any next of kin issues. Exhumation of a grave doesn't always require next of kin consent. Despite the widespread belief in Billy the Kid's grave location, there are genuine disputes. This ongoing discussion suggests that something may not be quite right, and that's why people haven't dropped the topic."

[@stevensmith1911]

Too neutral. Whats the point. At least give us your opinion.

[@prudd72]

you had to ruin the show with that sign off... Eagles ...

[@prudd72]

kidding of course.. this show is just what i needed before going to work :)

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

hahaha!

[@frankhummel955]

Bushy Billy is the real deal

[@MD-jd6ni]

Gale Cooper is from New York. Figures, Yankees always messing stuff up.

[@42Leman]

this guy's a pretty good bs artist

[@ClintonHaines72]

Ot drives me nuts i believe billy was killed by pat garret but i love the story of brushy bill if that makes any sense

[@rhett4027]

He's better than Regan!

[@divindragon1302]

I feel this guy says he has information, but not willing to come forth with such evidence, makes me think he's taking out of his butt, just like Brushy Bill. Full of crap.

[@justin5159]

He wants people to buy his book. He’s not gonna leave it all out there in an interview.

[@cliffordthornton9806]

Anybody who thinks Brushy Bill is the kid is a darn fool.

[@rodneybender6865]

Cmon folks lets use common sense here. Where are you gonna get a photographer in 1881 New mexico? How long would it take for a photographer to get to fort sumner? In the meantime the corpse is gonna be real ripe in the July heat. Flashlights? Is this guy serious 😂. Garrett snuck in there quiety with his deputies late at night lanterns or "flashlights" would have attracted too much attention. Blood on the carpenters bench? Its quite possible there could have been several blood stains from different people over the years some carpenter cut himself instead of a board. The most damning evidence to me is that Billy if he escaped death that noght would have luved a quiet peaceful life somewhere until he surfaces as Brushy Bill almost 60 years late. Very unlikely given Billy the kids pugnacious nature. Garrett killed Billy that night period

[@danielmckay3458]

There is some historical evidence that Garrett Doug the grave up

[@MichaelAnthonyGiudicissi]

I'm not aware of any evidence, but Garrett seemed pretty sure that Billy was still down there...so?

[@leavitttrucking1]

Brushy Bill's story was true.

[@MIKEG509]

Fort Sumner has zero holes in its story. We would know if grave robbers got it. Let him rest

[@justin5159]

Actually there are some things there that raise some doubt. My biggest problem is with all the corruption and things that went on there at the time, I’m not ready to just accept things the way we’ve been told all these years. This investigation should have been allowed to continue and maybe answer some questions

[@cliffordthornton9806]

I agree 💯