Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths and Motives | More Lies of the Andals

[@jayceee.5494]

So modern Citadel is basically my school. If I want to learn something they don't want me to, I'm punished. Tell teachers how good and wise they are, and obey everything they say, and you survive there.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that's how most people survive college

[@71invictus]

One of the Kings of Winter invaded the Andals and captured a few villages, brought some captured back and put their heads on spikes on the shoreline as a warning to the Andals. First Men are still in the North.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

gotta love good old Theon Stark

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Just like maegor excpt maegor had it harder sense he couldn't remove their influnce from the people and his shitty family who let him do all the work

[@derekclinton7482]

I've always found it strange that a house of knowledge would be called "the Citadel." This name suggests the barring of knowledge rather than giving it. The definition of a citadel is: a fortress, typically on high ground, that protects or dominates a city. Since we know that the Citadel wasn't built in a position to defend the city (that is what the Hightower and the walls are for) then it must mean to dominate. So could the institution being called "the Citadel" be symbolic of how it dominates the affairs of the city and (by extension) the rest of Westeros?

[@axelNodvon2047]

James Gravil Can you give a few examples of how essos cities are more advanced than Westeros?

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

Makes sense

[@knukkaboom4491]

@Silent Dawn Europe not being developed because of the "dark ages" and the lack of knowledge is a myth. If you look historically the northern parts of Europe primary the lands of today France, Germany, Scandinavia and The British Isles were always underdeveloped compared to the rest of the world even in ancient times, while the medeterian was rich because of their geographical location and the Middle East in that matter (which was the cradle of civilization) northern and western Europe was really a backwards place. Most of European nation begun to develop and to catch up with the rest of the during the middle ages after they accepted the roman institution of the church which made a massive waves of information (similar like the southern westeros nations accepted the andal culture and therefore take some advanced in culture and technology) So what is the reason of westeros and old Europe being "underdeveloped"? The reason is simple their geographical location while the medeterian and Essos had a location which was valuable and connected with other civilization that made a good opportunity for trade and development westeros and Europe (before the great global discovery) were isolated. Like just look at westeros they are basically a island their continent is not large enough and it stops at the wall. Trade is limited and it is mostly local because of this reason. While in Essos the free cities are placed in fortunate locations and are mostly connected with other civilizations that boost their economic development. So in a conclusion the prosperity of westeros and Europe was not determined by the "knowledge" westeros is not so different with Essos on those terms. But their prosperity is largely determined by the location they find themselves in and the other geopolitical factors.

[@Paul_W_222]

Also strikes me as odd that the Manderleys made it thousands of miles from the Reach to the North without all getting slaughtered while carrying enough gold to construct an entire city during an era that was presumably more primitive and brutal than what we're seeing now.

[@howardbiel1958]

I LOVE that you call them "The lying piece of shit Andals". Do that as much as possible. Makes me laugh every time!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

there's no other way to say it in my mind

[@EyeOfEld]

It is a whole series of videos built on spite and close reading, and I love it.

[@ottomoen]

I just read a Dany chapter in aSoS which really seems to hint at a connection between the Ghiscari and the Andals which I hadn't thought about until I watched your videos, I just had to come back to this one and write it all out. So in the chapter she arrives at Meereen and then you have the duel between Strong Belwas and what can only be described as a Meereenese knight. Now this seems odd since we have learned knighthood was something the Andals created and brought to Westeros. But here we go: Oznak zo Pahl comes riding out of the gates in full armor with a fourteen foot lance. Sounds a bit like a knight already doesn't it? He then calls for Dany to send forth a champion so that they can fight in single combat. Something a knight would do, right? Ser Barristan immediately responds to this by telling Dany that they should send someone for the sake of "honor," so it seems that the two have similar ideals. Brown Ben Plumm then tells Dany about Oznak, in particular that he once cut out the liver of a man to "defend a lady's honor." Again, pretty knightly if you ask me. Then we get to the duel where Oznak keeps riding past Belwas, trying to hit him with his lance, instead of trying to ride him down with his horse. Jorah and Barristan comment about it, how it seems Oznak is riding in the style of a Westerosi tourney tilt, where both knights ride past each other and try to hit one another with a lance, instead of riding straight at each other. So to sum it up; we have a man who dresses like a knight would, is armed like a knight would be, has the ideals of knighthood and duels like a knight would. If we didn't know we were halfway across the world and knew the man was a Meereenese nobleman, we would probably assume we were looking at an Andal knight.

[@Ignisan_66]

Exactly. I 100% believe Andals and Ghiscari come from the same ethno-cultural group. A group descended from the followers of the Bloodstone Emperor. Their history according to the Faith and Maesters is such an obvious bull... full of inconsistencies and lies.

[@chronikhiles]

The Andals always inevitably get ruled by the Faith rather than their kings or lords sooner or later, which shows how power hungry the Septons are and how powerless the lords are. The Faith is just a pretext for a group of megalomaniacs to seize influence and impose their will. Power resides where men believe it resides.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

agreed

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

and Maegor the Cruel or Just in my opinion ended that and gave more power over to the lords and his family

[@bouboubibila979]

Also you're pointing out a very interesting quote from Mel. George has cleverly conditioned us to view her as some kind of crazy fanatic witch through Maester Cressen's acok prologue, so we all tend to dismiss anything she says, and are not really paying attention. She's probably a bit of a nutcase, but she certainly speaks some truth.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we think she knows what she's talking about...she's definitely a bit much at times, but it comes from a place of being desperate to get humanities attention about the war to come before it is too late

[@bouboubibila979]

There's definitely some Cassandra syndrome at work with her.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think knowing that humanity's right to exist is at stake would drive just about anyone to do some crazy things to make sure mankind is ready to fight and win the only war that matters

[@kaylew108]

I find also interesting that the current Lord of Hightower is "locked away", and it is said he has done that himself. Or is he being locked away by others and kept as a puppet? Great points as always guys. Always interesting and informative

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think he wants nothing to do with what is going on in his city and doesn't want them to know what he's doing either

[@Richard_Nickerson]

"A bad belly" has also been used to describe what is clearly appendicitis. Yes, it is suspicious due to the timing, the reward for the faith, and the vagueness of it, but the vague term "bad belly" means more than just a "tummy ache."

[@DarkLadyJade]

"Lying piece of shit Andals" amuses me every time. Love the channel and the thorough, in-depth analyses you do.

[@ashleyofnaath]

I so wish Archmaester Marwyn had made it to the show...they aren't all grey rats! Great video guys😊 I've often thought either the Maesters are incredibly ignorant, or they have some sort of assurance that they won't come to harm during the second long night. And that's why they don't listen to accounts of the Others, refuse to help, etc. The Maesters frustrate me to NO END!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I was sooooo upset that they gave us Ebrose instead of Marwyn in the show...I do think that D&D did a decent job of showing the Citadel's complete lack of caring about the Others coming to kill everyone

[@ashleyofnaath]

The Order of the Green Hand They did, I agree. Jim Broadbent was excellent as Ebrose, though he would've been great as Marwyn too...do you think the book Ebrose is writing is ASOIAF?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

he might not be mean enough looking to be Marwyn, but only book readers would have known that and they don't seem to care about us anymore anyways

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

it might be

[@lynnjohanssen6552]

Ashley of Naath That's a great question. At the opening credits of the show, there is a quick glimpse of the game board/map being viewed through the same type of glasses that the maester was wearing when Sam arrived at the Citadel. Like it's hinting that the whole map is being viewed by a maester. I know that's show and not book, but it seems a little more curious and concerning after these latest videos.

[@aaronneal6421]

Okay, we've been assuming that the Andals brought "the faith" with them. But what if "the faith" was actually created in Oldtown? One of the things I've noticed is the conspicuous reference to the Faith of the Seven not existing at all in Essos, where it supposedly came from. Even the "Sept Across the Sea", is not for native worshipers in Bravos (which should exist is there were Andals in the area or Andal slaves of the Valyrians), but in fact for worshipers from Westeros exclusively.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we have been trying to figure out how it could be possible that there are no Faith of the Seven worshipers in Essos too...it seems as though the Faith of the Seven as we know it never existed in Essos

[@aaronneal6421]

Probably the case. It could also explain why there is "Hukko" in Essos, who seems to be a fairly typical folk-hero, and Hugor in Westeors as a sort of patriarch/founding-father in Westeros. it could also explain the slavery prohibition. Especially if this was already a thing in Westeros, and the natives were concerned the foreign Andals might bring it with them. it could also explain why even though "chivalry" in Westeros is supposedly an Andal invention, it seems to have already existed in Westeros (if in a less formally organized fashion) and is also unknown in Essos. I mean the Andals probably existed in Essos, and probably colonized Westeros to some degree, but "Andal culture" as we know it seems to be an entirely Westerosi invention. I do disagree with the assessment that they are Ghiscari. I think the Cymmeri are a better candidate. They are known to have possibly been the earliest Iron users, meaning the information might have been transmitted the opposite direction. Also Cymmeri fleeing conquest and/or assimilation by the Sarnori culture might make more sense, as they would have been adjacent and not had a large and organized civilization in-between them and their enemies. Also the Sarnori seem to have been close allies of the Valyrians, so much so that there are dragon-roads in what used to be the kingdom of Sarnor. The Sarnori are also known to have fought the "harry men" in Essos as well, which may be another possible connection. The legendary founder of the Kingdom of Sarnor was Huzhor Amai who had three wives according to legend (similar to the triple goddess component of the seven), with one of his wives being a smith and the other a warrior. It's possible that deification and conflation of these characters over time evolved into some of the gods the Andals brought with them to Westeros and eventually became "The Seven" when the church was created in Oldtown.

[@ahmedshaharyarejaz9886]

​@aaronneal6421 its been 6 years since this comment was made, but even so, I can't help but notice the similarity between Azhor Ahai and Huzhor Amai. Could the Azhor Ahai of Legend have perhaps gone on to found the first Sarnori Kingdoms after Ending the Long Night? There may be some connection here.

[@HelenWA]

@@aaronneal6421 the Sarnori were dark skinned and the andals are not so...

[@aaronneal6421]

@@HelenWA I mean the idea of the "andal look" is mostly false, and IMO probably the result of specifically Lanister (possibly proto-nationalist) propaganda. Becasue if you pay attention it's very close to the Lanister look, who are mixed Andal/First Men and originally a First Men house, with the idea of "Lan the Clever" being an Andal rather dubious, but that look not so much that of house Arryn who are an originally Andal house, and also part of the first Andal migration, so if anyone should have whatever the architypical "Andal look" if there is such a thing, it should be them, but they don't. Also we don't get a description of the Cymmeri themselves, nor do we know if the Andals would have wound up looking like whatever western Essosi they encountered and mixed with fleeing the Sarnori expansion.

[@JosephDungee]

2:05 The Andals never conquered Dorne (Just as I thought when I heard you say that) They never even came close to conquering Dorne.

[@jpmzo]

The Andals 1st landed at the Fingers, eh? Little Fingers...?

[@Cojer52]

No wonder Qyburn left the Citadel.

[@chronikhiles]

Cojer52 He didn't leave, he was expelled. I'm pretty sure that he'd loved to stay on.

[@Cojer52]

No he would have hated to stay and be limited to what he could learn.

[@carlbates9110]

He couldn't stay even if he wanted to. He was kind of lucky that he wasn't executed, considering the stuff he did.

[@lynnjohanssen6552]

I noticed the quote near the end from TWOIAF. If that book is written like a history book that was written by the maesters and Septons, do we just take everything in it with a grain of salt? Also, this little quote was in the book overview. "The World of Ice & Fire is indeed proof that the pen is mightier than a storm of swords." A benign statement, but it caught my attention right away after listening to this video about how the andals got control if the citadel/libraries/history books, etc.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

George is a man who loves his double meanings

[@robp4074]

The night is dark so i may as well stay up another 20mins

[@crazyscotsman9327]

Interesting points there very interesting indeed. I wonder if it wasn't a natural madness then that cause the "Mad King" to rise. But rather subtle poisons or maybe the one who whispered in his ear to burn the Starks and call for the head of Eddard and Benjan Stark was the Grand Maester.

[@HolyknightVader999]

This whole thing about the Andals' warping of the Citadel and their disgust and hatred for the lore of the Old Men shows a distinct hatred of inquiry and debate. I think what Martin is trying to imply is that dogmatic faith kills scholastic inquiry, and not even dogmatic faith-it's the kind of belief system imposed by a bunch of invaders who don't want people asking questions. In Church history, it's the difference between the Jesuits and the traditionalists. Both are super-devout members of the Catholic Church, but while the Jesuits are eager to debate and delve into the mysteries of the unknown, the traditionalists like the way things are and dislike anyone questioning the status quo-just as they disliked Galileo for mistrusting Aristotelian physics, while the Jesuits were open to talking about heliocentrism until the traditionalists closed the debate(and promptly got the whole Church embarrassed when the heliocentrists turned out to be right). The Andals even go out of their way to hate the dragons and the Targaryens and conspire against anyone who likes them, though that does seem reasonable considering that the Targaryens were Valyrian foreigners who conquered Andal Westeros, or the fact that dragons cause plenty of damage and the Targaryens had a penchant for incest and madness. Although it's kind of a stretch to believe that they had anything to do with the Long Night or the Others, it's just that the crystal sword could be an extension of the crystal crowns the High Septons wore. But you can be right about that if Martin does take this line of thinking forward........... It's just that I can't see a faith lasting this long in a world of magic without magics of its own. The Many-Faced God has the Faceless Men, the Red God has its priests and priestesses with miracles, Qarth has warlocks with their own magic powers, and the Old Gods have warging and the powers of the Children of the Forest. Heck, even Catholicism has miracles and exorcists, with the latter getting house calls for some spiritual extermination of demonic house guests. Granted, magic was on a hiatus for some time, but the Faith of the Seven originated in Essos, so at the very least, it should have had some magic powers to compete with all the wizards and warlocks and Red God followers back there before going to Westeros.............

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that seems about right

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Hey when are guys gonna put the next video. Also congratulations.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

I feel like when the Andals came they changedthe name of everything and burned everything that had knowledge of it

[@maekarsmark5402]

Hence, in our world today, the importance of progressives and conservatives....just NOT as portrayed by the modern-day GOP and Democratic Party. I wish we could start over. Anyhow, conservatives guard what was, and progressives push us forward, it's a give-and-take vital to a thriving people. I wish it hadn't become so warped as each is on a qwest for absolute power. It's us common folk who suffer. But good thoughtful post, I agree, and I'm a Catholic (but not a major fan of the Jesuits...I'm human)

[@Nunya_Argo79]

@@maekarsmark5402 Progressives that you mention, aren't progressive at all and the conservatives you mention, haven't conserved anything.

[@sflr38]

I’m dying for your research skills to investigate this weird dead guy: Clash of Kings. - Arya IV It seemed a peaceful place . . . until Koss spotted the dead man. "There, in the reeds." He pointed, and Arya saw it. The body of a soldier, shapeless and swollen. His sodden green cloak had hung up on a rotted log, and a school of tiny silver fishes were nibbling at his face. "I told you there was bodies," Lommy announced. "I could taste them in that water." When Yoren saw the corpse, he spat. "Dobber, see if he's got anything worth the taking. Mail, knife, a bit o' coin, what have you." He spurred his gelding and rode out into the river, but the horse struggled in the soft mud and beyond the reeds the water deepened. Yoren rode back angry, his horse covered in brown slime up to the knees. "We won't be crossing here. Koss, you'll come with me upriver, look for a ford. Woth, Gerren, you go downstream. The rest o' you wait here. Put a guard out." Dobber found a leather purse in the dead man's belt. Inside were four coppers and a little hank of blond hair tied up with a red ribbon.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hmm...it reminds me of the lock of golden hair Pate found in Walgrave's little box of treasures

[@sflr38]

The Order of the Green Hand yes and also Rohanne Webber gives dunk a lock of hair. This happens near the gods eye, could that green cloak me a member of house Reed going to the gods eye like howland did during the harrenhal tourney or maybe someone from the order of green men

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I feel like this particular guy died in the war...in a Brienne chapter in AFFC she ends up on Quiet Isle, where they are told that bodies from the war constantly are washing up on their shores...I feel like this guy was a nobody because of the fact that he only had a few coppers to his name, which would most likely eliminate the possibility that he is highborn, which seems to make him a common soldier who was wearing some houses colors that happened to be green, and soldiers are known to carry things that remind them of home...maybe his wife is blonde and he carries a lock of her hair like airforce pilots tape pictures of their wife and kids in their cockpit...small measures of comfort go a long way in keeping soldiers minds right when they're at war

[@mtverv]

The Order of the Green Hand The Manderly's descended from Hightowers!!! I have to admit I fall on the Preston Jacobs side of the fence when it comes to the "magic" in ASOIAF really being telepathy and telekinesis hidden very well by a writer who wrote Scifi for DECADES before ASOIAF, but when it comes to lineage you guys are second to none! Keep it up guys I can't wait for the next one...

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...you didn't notice the part where Peremore enjoyed listening to scholars, sorcerers, and wizards? and what are Mel's shadow babies? or Benarro being able to shoot fire out of his finger tips? or Mel killing Orell's Eagle with a fireball? that all sounds like magic to me

[@kendallc.harris7664]

just saw the announcement!!! What a lucky guy!!! A pretty lady who is obsessed with The Greatest Series ever written of all time!!! Congratulations.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@Tellemicus]

Hey, did anyone else catch that potential link between the High Septon and the Others? A CRYSTAL crown? I don't know about you, but I don't remember any other reference to 'crystal crowns' being mentioned anywhere else in the story before. And, as you've pointed out, crystals have only ever been linked to the Others. Could it be that the High Septon(s) were 'communicating' with the Others via the crown? It would definitely help explain how and why the Septons took certain actions in later centuries, right?

[@ivanbluecool]

Question. What do you think the dayne family words are. George says it will be a massive spoiler if we find out. My guess is "We are the Sword that is sworn to protect the realm" what do you think

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I have spent more time than I care to admit trying to come up with what their words are and am no closer to figuring it out now than I was when I started after finding that George quote

[@ivanbluecool]

Ok thanks. I just wanted to ask

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I feel like it will end up being something remarkably similar to the Night's Watch oath, like you guessed too but I can't place it and it makes my head hurt everytime I try

[@yensid4294]

If Jon Snow is of House Stark & House Dane, & Dany is Azor Ahai reborn, yeah that could be a big spoiler :) It's totally fascinating to me how different people are picking out the same details of this story & having completely different interpretations. I'm not far along enough in the first book to really know anything yet so I can't offer an informed opinion but I'm really enjoying the videos. Please keep them coming ♡

[@yuffmymateria7859]

The Order of the Green Hand I wanna know the words to House Reed tbh. I feel like based on Jojen and Meeras vows that it's possible their House words have significance too tbh but that's me

[@meganfinch711]

So pumped for R+L=J debate!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

us too! if someone will step up to the plate! :D

[@VictoriaTraducciones]

I always wanted to see a debate about this with Gemma from Secrets of the Citadel channel, she has interesting theories too but sadly she believes in R+ L =J

[@brucewaite3733]

N+A=J all day.

[@tehn3085]

When and where is this debate again? I don't want to miss it!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

neither Rawrist or us can find anyone willing to do it

[@rodstone1597]

The old gods be good, it's like my understanding of this world expands after each video I watch on y'all's channel. The instant gratification spaz in me wants to watch the next video right now, but I definitely can acknowledge the fact that the quality of every video y'all do comes from detailed and meticulous research, so that fact makes the wait well worth it. The best thing I have done this year was find y'all's channel 6 months ago.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we wish we knew how to make videos faster but our OCD and need to occasionally think about something else gets in the way

[@madambutterfly1997]

if i were Dany, i'd be better off trying to rebuild Valyria

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

sje can't she has to deal with volantis and the revolting slave masters also braavos and facelessman who no thought will fight to the death then allow a new valyria

[@imnotamon]

You make the Long Wait bearable, glad I found you

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you....we try

[@MrKajjaGG]

At the end of last season i unsubbed from pretty much every GoT youtuber except for these guys. Great content.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@johnathankinne3998]

I can't wait for the Hightowers to start playing a bigger role in this series. Which will be pretty soon since Euron will probably force their hand in the next book.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I can't wait to see what magic Leyton has up his sleave...I have a feeling what he is going to do to Euron is going to be epic

[@johnathankinne3998]

The Order of the Green Hand it will definitely catch him off guard I think. Euron has some magic of his own working but he won't expect any kind of magical retaliation to come out of Oldtown. I myself wondered if Jaquen Hagaar is after Leyton Hightower. I find it so perplexing that he would kill Pate, take his face and the Archmaester master key, and still be lingering at the Citadel when Sam gets there. Faceless men are assassins, that is their service, so anything Jaquen steals is a means to end someones life and he surely has had enough time to kill just about anybody between the time he takes Pate's face and Sam shows up. Unless he's after Leyton Hightower. And if Leyton Hightower is sitting up in his tower with a glass candle (or a flame to look into, possible Rhhlor follower with his big ass fire at the top that "must never go out") and is afraid to come out. He is one of the most powerful lords in the seven kingdoms and is afraid to leave his own tower. I think only a faceless man could scare him that badly and their just happens to be one chilling at the Citadel biding his time in disguise for reasons we don't know yet. And Leyton is the only target that I could imagine that would force Jaquen to bide his time for so long. That key might give him access to the hightower through some underground passage or something.

[@mtverv]

Johnathan Kinne Jaquen's target might be Bloodraven. Hard to find in that cave (glass candle could help with that) and hard to kill as a skinchanger (necessitating the best assassin in the world)...

[@egorshkotin1792]

Johnathan Kinne, the best and first logical conclusion of a theory “faceless man in Oldtown” brought up in so many videos. And quite a script for the next video ))

[@johnathankinne3998]

Egor Shkotin thanks!

[@dratheart]

Great work as always! I love fully exploring what's down the rabbit hole with you both! And congratulations again on the engagement, because I love how you work as a team and these videos just wouldn't be quite as awesome without the two of you; it's really great that you both take time out of your lives to give us the gift of great ASOIAF content while you balance so much and the show is off the air and we still don't get TWOW out yet!

[@KingOfWinter]

I miss you guys! I wish y’all would do videos on fire and blood and HOTD. Or even more theory videos lol. Even if I didn’t agree I always respected the time and effort it took to make these videos and they were always so good and made me look at the story from a different angle. Hope all is well!!

[@anaisabel713]

I saved cookies waiting for this. It was soooo worth it. I did not expect the Manderly link! That actually makes sense, even though they are devout but the manderlys do strike as fake people, like they pretend to be lots of things they might not be. It's fun to think about. I also loved the conection with the wise masters. I can't wait for next chapters! Hugs to you guys!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Nothing with the Manderlys seems to be what they present to the world....I'm not even entirely convinced Wyman Manderly is actually fat

[@anaisabel713]

The Order of the Green Hand maybe he isn't even too fat to sit a horse!

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Just like if Doran really has gout

[@ladyszechuan8934]

I love it!, i was so intesely listening that i didn't realize that it was coming to an end

[@allyriastark3508]

Cliffhanger again? Watching the video makes me imagine Leyton Hightower at top of the Hightower with fire behind him shooting magic beams around. We know he locked himself out to only to come out with a bang! And Manderlys being the Hightower family that had to runaway because of the Andals... and if they get rid of Hightower like that what they did to other families they mingle with? I know Lannister family only had one daughter who later abruptly married an Andal knight so can we say they "conquered" Westerlands that way? Didn't think about that before, I will admit, no wonder they know seem to hate Tyrells who are Andals - and makes me question the significance of Gardener coins more, what is the Queen of Thorns up to? She is a Redwyne isn't she? And I can't believe Stannis losing his faith is helping us get rid of the devil, one true King indeed. About the Lannisters do you think Reyne and Tarbeck family were also descendants of Lann and somehow had purer blood or are they Andals too? Maybe that's why they were afraid of Tywins rise and ambition?

[@brennanbarnes7628]

Adding my voice to the others who loved this and the rest of your videos, you two consistently raise unique questions and insights and this was no exception; can't wait to hear about how Maegor's been misunderstood. Hope you two have a great holiday!

[@mary-patconnolly1583]

Absolutely loving where this is going! Can’t wait for the next video!

[@guesswho1047]

Amazing how you two are pulling this all together, did you use a spaghetti chart? I'm feeling the need to take notes 😉 Question about House Manderly considering how loyal they are to House Stark, and both their bloodlines being from Garth, do you think their alliance will play a major part in revealing who The Others truly are? Great job as usual! 💚✋

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we think Wyman Manderly is one of the most important characters in the series that most people don't pay any attention to...I think he knows everything about everything and just quietly goes about his business, hiding in plain sight

[@hhrr6582]

hope he lives to tell the tale

[@PBRStreetgang]

The sketch of High Septon Robeson looks like that fat televangelist Jerry Falwell. I'm still trying to puzzle out exactly what the Manderly's "debt that can never be repaid" to the Starks is all about. Refuge, yes - but a debt that can NEVER be paid? Hmm...I'm looking forward to reading more about Marwin too; the few bits published so far leave me wanting for more, just like your videos!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

someone saving one's family from annihilation seems like it could be a debt that can never be repaid

[@PBRStreetgang]

Very true; Martin being Martin, I always assume there is more behind almost everything that's happened so far in the story.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that is usually a safe assumption

[@ZoePain]

I love your videos. You’re the first one who gave me a new insight in the books. Now it’s a much better story now. I will rewatch all your videos as they get better the more I know and understand. I hope you will make more and more of them. Love your chanel❤️

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@pearloftheorient3362]

I been youtubing other subjects to ASOIF lately and so had to binge watch you last few videos. I enjoyed the New and Improved Edition of N+A=J and it was necessary, now that we're continuing with the Myths, Mysteries and Motives Series. This is diving into questions about the Lore in the story which is super awesome and kinda scary. Haven't really seen other videos that dive into the meat of it other that what's on the pages. I love where you are going with it and connecting dots that were too obscure on the first read or so, yet makes so much sense once it's presented to you in an on point way you guys have. Your videos as usual gets me hooked for the next one. 👌🖒

[@cleganebowldog6626]

Loving this topic. Manderlys being Hightowers is a great concept. Do you think that Leyton could be an unlikely ally with the Manderlys? Considering you believe his uncle is with Maege Mormont and an unlikely ally himself (and Leyton consented for his daughter to marry yet another Mormont), it doesn't seem too far out there to me. Ok, tinfoil here- but what if Leyton wanted Maege to control bear island, hence the setup on Jorah in 289, after the Kingsguard were out on their missions. It would explain the marriage, expensive wife, and slaver farce. No proof of course, just having fun with your theories :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

there is some suspicious circumstances surrounding Jorah's exile...like what the hell a Tyroshi Slave ship was doing at Bear Island to begin with

[@aurelian2668]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand Also why the fuck would a rich house such as the hightowers, a powerful and prominent house give out their beautiful daughter to a poor northern house?

[@oldreddragon1579]

I have always been really suspicious about the official version of the history of Planetos. You say have more to come on this topic and I say bring it.

[@kedar52]

All hail to te order of the green hand!

[@SonoftheMustardTiger]

Wow you guys continue to impress. My new favorite asoiaf channel. Keep up the great work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we will certainly try

[@darthdray3001]

This is the best new stuff introduced into the community in a long time!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we really appreciate it

[@AbdulBido]

I have watched all of your videos many times over.. Some I can recite... But,damm! MaryEllen your narration of mel here(@the very end) still gives me chills ten times later as the first I heard it. It's a prayer said in real faith.

[@EmmieyCathiey]

I subscribed and joined the notification squad just to see the third part of this series. The series roasting Catelyn was great also.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

its coming...we're not stopping for anything until its done (except the ManU game tomorrow), but other than that we're on the home stretch and its on its way

[@lucasluu1919]

oh man... i get really excited whe your videos come out. every time i understand more of george's work i found it more awesome. The word that he crated really amazes me. And your videos take it to another level. Thank you for always leading us further into this masterpiece. Salutations from brasil. I really wish to see the videos about what doran martell is up to.... And about Quaithe (whom i think is Shiera Seastar)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...the main issue I have with the idea that Shiera is Quaith is she has mismatched eyes and the only part of Quaithe that is visible is her eyes

[@lucasluu1919]

Yeah, there is that issue with the eyes... But Shiera is definitely a shapeshifter and has a reason to help Dany, she seans to want dany to go to Ashai, probably because of magic reasons, and Shiera disapeared... maybe to Ashai?! What i really would like to see is a closure to shiera and bloodraven's love history. They are really a awesome couple.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we think Melisandre is Shiera...the have identical physical descriptions word for word except her hair and eye color which are clearly part of her glamor

[@lucasluu1919]

what about duran martel, can you give me a hint of what you guys think he is up to? He seems to be working against his own family and since Oberan died the whole revenge thing goes to nothing

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Doran Martell is going to get his own video or 12 soon I hope

[@stefiz]

Thank god! My day is making a comeback!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

glad we could help

[@belalsweepe1063]

the andals are theonly ones that left no tracks in their lands in essos. Like the valyriens left cities and roads is Essos. The Andals look like they have never lived there. I also think they are ghiscari or that they are from Lorath where they had the blind maesters and also a lot of blacck oiled stones, what is also the foundation of the Hightower in Oldtown.

[@mmmuuuuuuuuiiiiiiiiirrrrr]

I download your videos, and I can never delete them, because they're so chock full of information that I have to keep re-watching them.

[@vpapako]

Well, eversince I became familiar with the basic history of Westeros, I 've always seen the First men > Andals > Targaryens to be a parallelism for the brittons > Anglosaxons (who came from an axe as well) > Normans in Britain. That is why I think that the Andals must have wanted to migrate because of an imminent threat, an invader or something similar.

[@williamjameshoffer4405]

Wow. The First Men did leave behind written records. And the Citadel and the Faith all lied. Let's up the Citadel still has the books.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I fear the Andals are book burners

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

I fear you are right and but I have hope just like in the show the High Sparrow reveal his and the faith true nature to the world in way that they will never have power again and also I have a theory euron is attacking oldtown becasue he wants a magic present world and the "gods" are helping him becasue the andals have pretty much been on a winning strike with the removal of the firstman and Dragonlords along with shaping the past how they like it .I fee like the gods are saying ok enough it's time for some balance or at least give men a fighting chance or fresh start euron is the hero we need not the hero we want and after he's carried out his purpose he to will die

[@Limpn00dle84]

With Tristan it probably went something like Tommen's situation, but a bit further and he probably had his family locked up and they wouldn't concert so he had them killed,

[@Bluemilk92]

Does it ever say how big the Maesters chains are? I always imagined them to be smaller, and fit tight around the neck like a choker, so they would be impossible to remove without breaking. Symbolism and what-not. But everyone has drawn them otherwise, so I wouldn't be surprised if I missed it when I read. I'm real bad with forming mental images of things, and physical descriptions apparently get filtered out by my brain. I read the full ASoIaF series before the show, and I always pictured Melisandre as a raven haired Asian chick in fiery red clothing, till I saw the show. Went back to the book and, sure enough, they call Mel a red head like a hundred times. Does it ever even allude to the size of a Maesters chain?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I believe they are very tight

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

that's becasue it's tp remind them of who they belong to and serve. those who refuse to conform like maegor will be rembered as cruel , mad or savages like theon the hungry wolf

[@oclairdelune164]

So, like I guess the Stranger is the true face of the Seven? I would never have imagined the Andals being descendants of the Ghiscari, more like spiritual heirs perhaps. It does shed a new light on them. Concerning the Others, I have two theories: first, the maesters are just complete ignorants and want to stay complete ignorants, and will disregard everything that could chatter their reality. Second, the archmaesters in power at the Citadel are actually helping the Others and want the other maesters of lower status to only see them as folklore, so that they won't mingle. It may be possible that the archmaesters at the Citadel are fully aware of the true nature of the Seven that the rest of the population view as good gods. Thanks fo this video. Can't wait for the next.

[@malmorbidus2788]

"...what is considered knowledge in the modern era..." the shaaaddeee

[@cmanley2]

I always look forward to new videos from The Order! Can't wait for more!

[@nohashtagshere4116]

Alright part 2 out of 20 we’re on a roll!!!

[@robertatrasp974]

Thank you, your stuff is always good.

[@shtyepaancz9642]

Funny thing is contrary to popular belief Andals actually haven't conquered that much. Racefortheironthrone has mentioned that in his essays when analyzing the Seven Kingdoms. They only conquered the Vale, Riverlands and Dorne. Stormlands even managed to hold them back on it's own and the Iron Isles assimilated them (yeah, they destroyed the local dynasty but that's nothing in comparison of destroying an entire culture). They only managed to take the South through marriages and the rather welcoming politics of the First Men kings.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

They takeover through religion and marraige spreading their poison like a plauge all in all through compromise and deception

[@stephski2274]

Will you be talking more about how the Seven are the others?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

absolutely

[@jessejohnson8365]

you guys are like drug dealers. altering the minds of all those who listen. The rush of seeing a new video is almost near as addicting as watching it. in all seriousness though great job and I'm glad you guys still continue to make worthwhile videos. only this channel fills my game of thrones void.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you Jesse...that is much appreciated

[@BlackHand531]

This is GOLD!... No Diamonds.

[@ivanbluecool]

House Tully is family honor anf duty. Family as in hoster gets his daughters to have power by marrying Brandon then Ned and lysa marry Jon arryn and take power as both of them die and who has power. Tully. Honor and duty come next as the Tully family is more important then the other two. And if cat married Brandon. She would have been mean to ned and all his kids as she wants power and got Ned and Jon killed and all her kids in danger. She didn't care as its all about family(Tully) before honor to the Starks and duty to serve. That's why the Tully are terrible people. Except blackfish. I love that guy

[@oclairdelune164]

The Tullys seem like the mafia of Westeros, the way you present it. Hoster Tully is the current godfather. And now I am even thinking that he worked hand in hand with the faith to have his eldest daughter marrying the Warden of the North, so that the lords of Winterfell could in times become worshippers of the Seven. Catelyn was the true daughter of her father And you're right: Blackfish is cool

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Ironically in his pursuit for power he died not knowing who he was his lands ravaged by war his daughters both dead/ mad

[@ghufrankhalid1719]

That doesn't AT ALL fit in with the Catelyn we've seen in the books

[@brucewaite3733]

Yes!!!! Been waiting all week... and now we watch.

[@edi9892]

What do you think: Jaquen joined the prisoners to assassinate one of them, or to find Arya? I've recently seen the theory that Littlefinger had Jaquen as backup plan to off Ned because he knew too much. This would however mean that the meeting with Arya was just a coincidence. I always thought that it had to do with Syro and her Skinchanging abilities. From a logic point of view the prior makes however more sense.

[@xxW3rn3rxx]

u guys are awsome ! summary to all of your theories so far. I buy em all. even if they are not true they are so good and well explainend that GRRM has a tough job to top that.^^ keep up the good work!

[@peterbullinger5804]

I've been (impatiently) waiting for another video. Thanks. :)

[@OldDood]

What a Ride...Great Video. I just traveled a few millennia (and possibly through Space-Time) from the latest episode of 'Mr Robot' (One of the best TV shows on TV ) to this video. Good work...Thanks!

[@madambutterfly1997]

it all makes sense

[@2211gk]

Brilliant!!!! Especially the Manderley part

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@mumblemumble6641]

Am I the only one who pulls over on the highway when I get a notification that a new OOTGH comes out?

[@thebovineavenger]

"Black Blood of the Andals". HHHMMMMM That is something to think on. I KNOW I have read another group labeled black blood in the books. Looks like I have books to read again. (NO, not the Crow's, For those show fans out there)

[@itzfifson6140]

The citadel= the public school in America

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I was thinking the Maesters kind of remind me of college professors

[@michael198427]

holy shit mind blown you guys always break the books down and layout the evidence thank you

[@tehn3085]

I cannot wait for this next video!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I can't wait to get to the 4th video...the third is going to be good...the 4th is what blew my mind when we figured it out

[@tehn3085]

The Order of the Green Hand eep! So exciting. I thought the Maesters' conspiracy was that they just didn't want Targaryen have so much power through their dragons. So they breed weaker dragons by each generation (or gave the wrong advise to breed healthy dragons on purpose). This is like a whole different thing! Can't wait for both of those videos. Thanks you guys for doing so much research!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much for being an awesome sub...Lady Green Hand loves you

[@tehn3085]

The Order of the Green Hand That's so sweet! I love Lady Green Hand too 😊

[@meridianmormont665]

Great job as always guys... Love hugs and Blessings.... 💖💖💖

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thanks Meridian

[@yimlee5140]

omg ...where is the next one? i can't believe i have to wait, for more clarity on a song of ice and fire...@The Order of the Green Hand ....no pressure i can understand you have to plan the Green Wedding! :P

[@Maelum_]

so basically, from what you've said about the maesters, does that mean Gyldayn and his writings on the history of the Ruling Targaryen family can't be trusted? also, I feel bad for Yandel. He not only had to make sure he didn't upset Robert and later on the Lannisters, he also had to make sure that what he wrote and what texts he used would be acceptable for the Citadel or he might die

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Yandel seems to know the truth but was too scared to commit and say it, so he danced around every important issue by pointing something out and immediately turning around and calling it nonsense

[@Maelum_]

hmm, I can see that :) what about Gyldayn? from what little writings of the targaryens that George has revealed, do you think Gyldayn's writings are truthful or is he just like the others?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Gyldayne seems fearless in some of his passages and a little less so in others...he flat out called Garth Greenhand a god on earth, but did seem to tread a little lightly with the Targaryens

[@Maelum_]

this is more related to N+A=J, but I am putting it here since this video is more recent: why would George give Dan and dave the "ok" to make the t.v. show if their answer of R+L= J when he asked them who Jon's parents were was incorrect?

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

I would believe his writings if the place it's being written in wasn't the HQ of a religious organization that fought against the family being written about and said faith also sees said people as abominations and also conqured the land they invaded but onyl the head of the family they tried to destory is seen as conqueors while they are seen as victims ruunig for their lives

[@mumblemumble6641]

Is this leading to how the Andels, through the Maesters orchestrated the dance of dragons?

[@mumblemumble6641]

I guess it makes sense. Just like the order of the green hand is an order that is against the great other, and is supported by the first men and the valerians, the other is supported by old ghis, Norvos, the andels, etc. My question is which lords supports which side, as who is aware of it, and who unintentionally supports which side. One example is reventree hill.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Littlefinger, Doran Martell, Volantis, Ullers, Boltons and possibly euron these guys maybe working with or for the greatother

[@cassiocosta9854]

The waiting is worth

[@yimlee5140]

16:20 (first of all by my standards that is a solid 4.20 you should have blazed it) second of all it too you 16 minutes to ges to where we left off in the last one?!? not saying...amazing work once again! keep up the hard work, we re thirsty for more...and more....and more....

[@panchgavyatherapist]

Thanks Guys .i got a new angle to think about our own history told by others . Most of them seems to me as lies now to cover up something

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I always look at the source of the information I'm taking in and account for that when I'm deciding what I think about any given topic

[@panchgavyatherapist]

yea , thats what gave me the Idea to think up on, where is the source of information coming from .

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think it is even more important in real life...its all about finding out who paid for the study whose results are being touted in the article, or who is this person that is telling me this and where is the skin that they have in the game...someone who is highly invested in something has millions of reasons to tell me the alternative is going to kill everyone

[@panchgavyatherapist]

Hmm, i think there is a war coming , Third World war not between countries though its gonna be Religious war .The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. Muslims everywhere have said they will destroy us from within. Of course i need to do study more on this , What do u guys think? Polarization has already started. Its like reading Ice n fire but from a different perspective .i hope it doesnt come to that .

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I would tend to agree with your assessment...its such a tough issue...I have a very Machiavellian approach to foreign policy...I personally believe that the country the terrorist is from should pay the price for its citizen attacking another country...that will wake up these regimes in the middle east...and I'm not talking about UN sanctions...I'm talking raining hellfire missiles on them to the point where they think the apocalypse has come...my feeling is that only one example would need to be made before those in power with a lot to lose for not cooperating with us in rooting out this problem step up and actually start addressing this issue where it starts...in their own back yards

[@chasx7062]

Many too many gods having too many faces !!

[@KingofWannada]

it will be hell for me to wait for the next video

[@emresaladin2164]

This video just made my night so much more awesome

[@madadhthewolfhound1623]

The only things that can take the neck are dragons and white walkers they can freeze the swamp and darts don't hurt dead men. Question do you think the walker's can freeze the sea. I have to many questions for you both can't help it I'm a book freak and your channel poses so many questions

[@rossmerchant8435]

My occam's razor theory here is that the Andals were just nomadic barbarians like the Dothraki - hence why there's conspicuously no trace in Essos of their civilization - but the Citadel and Westerosi nobility are too proud and arrogant to believe that this is where their religion came from so they've constructed a mythology of chivalry and advanced culture. It's like how paintings of biblical figures from the medeival era have them looking European and wearing contemporary European clothing. There's a desire to view figures from their religious past within their idea of "civilized."

[@bore-osofmyr2539]

So the Andals are oppressive and detest the values of Valeria? But according to the Faceless Men, the Valerians were also oppressive in that they were cruel slavers. I don’t understand why the Andals would want to denounce Valerians so much.

[@allyriastark3508]

Bore-os Of Myr so their lies wouldn't be exposed to others. First Faceless Men was a Children who answered the slaves/miners call for mercy and killed him, to free him. Later he also answered another miners prayer to kill his abusive master, Child did that too and in return killed him too. Atleast that's how I remember it happening.

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

Remember we are getting that info from a death cult and a group of men who were tight chains around their necks and hsve posion in thoer slieeves to remove people they don't like akak staniis maester

[@zanzedcloud6216]

the citadel sounds like a great place

[@BDKsauce]

whoa,that really was a breathtaking one!thank you to both of you and your work ^^ i'm a huge fan of rohlr even if his priest are really werid!

[@DoktaVODKA]

Love this series, kept wondering how everything happens by 7. 7 days, nights years, soldiers,,,,ect.

[@bandag78]

Nice work guys

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@bandag78]

Your welcome. The World of Ice and Fire has got a lot political and religeous accpects that mirror our own. The faith seven seems the garuantee total and lasting subjugation of six of the seven kingdoms. I knew they hated the whole brother sister Targaryen thing which is blood line needs to be pure for dragon control. But could thier influence have lead to the the near extinction of dragons or maybe not so for as that just Targaryens?

[@brianhowe1982]

The Citadel sounds like my years in school but with poison added in.

[@JeramyKelton-lv3pf]

Love everything you two put out! One thing... Why would the Manderlys adopt the 7 when they went to the North?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we're not entirely sure they really do...they have a secret passage that goes from their keep to the Godswood of the Wolf's Den for some reason, and their Weirwood happens to look exactly like Wyman Manderly, which might suggest he uses the tree to do some serious First Men stuff

[@JeramyKelton-lv3pf]

Forgot about the secret door! Remember the werewood. I feel like there has to be a reason they switch. Probably find out in the next book. Is the passage about this in ADWD Davos chapter?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

yes...we see the passage that goes into the godswood in ADWD Davos IV

[@huntermze]

So, the maesters conspiracy is not restricted to maesters or citidel, It's part of something. Wow

[@jackwalters5506]

The issue with your theory about the house Manderly is that we know where they came from, and it wasn't Oldtown. They came from Dustonbury.