Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths, and Motives | Ned and Varys' Secret Plot

Support us on Patreon!
/ theorderofthegreenhand
Donate to our Channel!
www.paypal.me/TOotGH
!!NEW!! Green Hand Gear Available Here:
teespring.com/stores/order-of...
Get your Green Hand Gold here: (15% off)
www.shirepost.com/discount/GR...
Mysteries, Myths, and Motives, Part 1: Ned and Varys' Secret Plot. Who is Haldon Halfmaester?
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
Art and Visual Images Courtesy of:
Pamela Mertz-Lady Green Hand
Game of Thrones
Paul Taaks-Green Hand Knight
Fantasy Flight Games
Mike S Miller
Penguin Random House
Dynamite Comics
Tommy Patterson
Gary Gianni
Doug Wheatley
Patrick McEvoy
Hemming Ludvisgen
John Picacio
Nicole Cardiff
Mark Evans
Chris Ocampo
Magali Villeneuve
Christine Griffin
Katherine Dinger
Scott Altmann
John Matson
Michael Komarck
Roman V. Papsuev
Jacques Bredy
Michael Capprotti
Andres Finer
Jean Tay
Thomas Denmark
Ryan Barger
Martina Pilcerova
Jarreau Wimberly
Chris Dien
Marc Simonetti
Carlo Bacchio
John Gravato
Xia Taptara
Leonardo Borazio
Tony Foti
Cristi Balanescu
Linda Tso
Tiziano Baracchin
Tomasz Jedruszek
Matthew Starbuck
Rafal Hrynkiewicz
Jim Pavelic
Jacques Bredy
Arantza Sestayo
Nacho Molina
Victor Manuel Leza Moreno
Marco Caradonna
Erik Wilkerson
Jonathan Standing
Jeff Johnson
Jason Engle
John Schoenherr
Franz Miklis
Dimitri Bielak
Ted Nasmith
Ignacio Bazan Lazcano
Bjarne Jansen
Trevor Cook
Marc Sheff
Marco Siegel
Zachary Graves
Jordi Gonzalez Escamilla
Paul Youll
ProKrik
Kittanee
Gill-goo
Vesea
chillyravenart
SephyStabbity
Sashoto
Sammy Torres
Zgfisher
steamey
Oznerol-1516
magajaga
Jenna Mandaglio
elontirien
JoelChaimHoltzman
laurencskinner
Elia Fernandez
BellaBergolts
Donatoarts
ReneAigner
Manzanedo
ImperfectSoul
Venlian
Sandra Winther
Captain Bombastic
duhi
Abend86
Prokrik
Drawslave
Aldok
ertacaltinoz
denkata5698
Mike-Hallstein
naomimakesart
JabberJayArt
SatelliteGhost
koharayuu
Silvaticus
BerkanOzkan
ayhotte
Genea
KahdiyaLynne
Borja Pindado
Drazenka Kimpel
leeru
Crysania
Gibi Lynx
Qistina Khalidah
R-valle
Thaldir
amaati
Raymond Waskita
katayanagi
Sergey Gluskahov
Green Ronin Publishing
Tarivanima
Daniela Uhlig
David Deb
Kirsty Carter
Miller Digital Art
Mike Ratera
Aida-Art
Recommended Order to View our Videos:
• Recommended Order to V...
Check us out on Facebook: / orderofthegreenhand

[@dalibork]

"Why would Rhaegar hide Lyanna in Dorne? The place where his current wife, the women he's cheating on - is from?" - great question you two!!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hahaa that was a fun video to make, and thank you

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

Dalibor Klobučar yeah wasn't Rhaegar supposed to be smart didn't he read one book a day or something.

[@mikhailstewart]

I think it's because he was was great friends with one of the Kings guard who was from there.

[@The_lord_666]

Weren't the Dronish people extremely lenient people as to who they were relations with wether its a marriage or just lovers..? Perfect example is Oberyn and his old lady.. But also all his bastard kids which he genuinely cared for. Maybe all was well for Rhaegar to pursue Lyanna to fulfill the prophecy

[@somethingelse8529]

There are some very good reasons why this is a perfectly normal and even novel thing for rhaegar to do. First let's start with elia, she is a Martel, sister to oberyn whom she loved and idolized, oberyn who had many bastards and more lovers. He loved all his bastards and made sure they were well taken care of. If he was such a huge influence on elia why wouldn't she think it was normal for her husband (a targaryan who historically practice polyamory as well) to take another lover and father another child? Especially when it has been announced that having another child will surely kill her. The dragon must have three heads after all. And rhaegar was obsessed with this prophecy and speaks about it at baby aegons birth "his is a song of ice and fire" he tells elia. She would have known how much this meant to rhaegar and their match being political not one of love she would have no reason not to allow him to father a bastard to fulfill his prophecy. As a final note on this point in every description of the tourney at harrenhal not a single one notes elias reaction to Lyana being crowned by rhaegar. Not one. We get notes about the starks reaction, aeres reaction even tywins reaction but not elias. Why not? Because she didn't react in a notable way because she was okay with it. Now let's talk more about their marriage their marriage was set up by elias mother whose name I forget, but elia was a sickly ailing girl who against odds was chosen after the baratheons failed to find a suitable valyrian wife for rhaegar in essos (this is also the trip that would kill Roberts parents). She was an important political chess piece. She knew it all too well so did doran Martel. She could not lose her place as rhaegars wife and have her children delegitimized. So housing the paramour of rhaegar and their newborn in dorne on a major path was a very good way to ensure rhaegar could have easy access but allow the dornish to essentially use her as a hostage to ensure elias political position was maintained. This also explains why the dornish are targaryan loyalists. But they dragged their feet during the rebellion coming to the targaryans aid you might say. Well that is because they wanted rhaegar on the throne but currently the mad king still sat it and losing soldiers for a king you know is terrible isn't the best idea. Now these aren't my own ideas, in deep geek has a good video series explaining this. And that being said im not subscribing to one theory over the other just that there is a good answer to many of the questions posed in this video, are they the right answers? Well we'll just have to wait to find out.

[@MissRiny]

I just noticed this: in another video you mentioned that Dawn could be Lightbringer, wich was forged by plunging it into Nissa Nissa's heart. So I find it funny that GRRM used the words "forged from the heart of a fallen star" to describe Dawn.

[@lburrsshinyhunts2253]

A fallen star...aka a person of Starfall?

[@jonstark153]

@@lburrsshinyhunts2253 no a meteorite i think

[@archaon1400]

Dawn is exactly what brings light hence Lightbringer. And its forged from the literal heart of the fallen star: a heart of the goddess. Wow martin

[@donbasti]

This channel is the an absolute masterpiece of binge channels... I love drinking while listening to your theories and argumentations.... Big thumbs up, you've won a subscriber P.S. The best part is that you are refering to the books and not to the shitty show

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Glad to have you and thanks so much! Welcome to the wolf's den!

[@rjboxxer1502]

The “ shitty show” is the only reason you and 99.999999% of the fans know of these books. George is not so,e “ Uber good “ writer. Like fans of the show think. He’s pretty much hated by other fantasy writers for being such a tool when it comes to deadlines, thus making it harder for them to get deals. Worse he has so many continuity errors in his books, that he endorses some scrubs with a website to be his “ lore masters “ because he spews so many words on the pages he can’t keep track of them, and lastly, he violates rule one of novels. KEEP THE MAIN CAST TO 5 characters, 7 at the most. Why is this a rule ? Because it’s tough to read and keep track of more than 7.... he has hundreds of “ main characters “. And no one can keep track of them WITHOUT THE SHOW. Once u see it on the screen ( and even that cast is probably 20% of the cast in the books ) you can follow it.

[@emresaladin2164]

But if Varys and Ned were acquainted like you guys theorize, wouldn't the conversations between them in the cellars in kingslanding be a bit different ?

[@Mephisto707]

Great question!

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I was recently rereading the same and asking the same question : it can hold up, since previous interactions of the two of them would have been very limited. Varys says he didn’t know if he can trust Ned - and just because Ned i honourable, it does make him less likely to keep secrets that don’t obviously benefit his family. So them working on saving Lyanna’s child 15 + yrs ago, that wouldnt actually mean Ned would join any other scheme Varys needs him to join in the year 298?

[@jacobenke7936]

@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 That makes sense. It also makes sense to say that George purposely omits Ned's thoughts about stuff we want to know. However..... It's a massive stretch to have us believe that they wouldn't speak the truth at that point. They were all alone, and Varys was speaking treason. They have no reason to hold back. Also, if R+L=A, Ned would have asked how he was. Ned never thinks about the concept of Aegon when talking to Varys or anyone else. Varys wanted war between Stark and Lannister, just not right then. He doesn't give a shit about Ned. Varys has never, not once, been about the Realm or children. This is someone who is good ripping the tongues of slaves out of their mouths, so you'll forgive me for not finding value in him.

[@Captain_Insano_nomercy]

​@jacobenke7936 Unfortunately, I think the answer simply is that George had to avoid certain topics in order not to spoil elements of his story. As unsatisfactory as that might be I think it certainly has to be true regarding certain topics, though we don't know which Unless Varys used a proxy to contact Ned and smuggle Aegon out and protect him. So maybe Varys knows but Ned doesn't

[@stephsteph3348]

I had a theory you guys were really GRRM and his wife revealing everything because you were sick of everyone being so far off. And then you showed your picture....lol. Im just soaking it all in. Thanks so much for sharing this!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hahaha...you are actually not the first person who has said that...I can't think of a greater compliment ...thank you so much

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

The Order of the Green Hand i just thought you two were greenseer's

[@buttchecks248]

My mind implodes following all of this and I consider myself a pretty big fan of the books but clearly there are different levels of fandom. I love how detailed and dedicated you both are!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@morgan9774]

I've only watched the shows. And what I understand from this video is, the show sucks I should really read the books to understand wtf you guys are talking about. Be right back.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Haha. Unfortunately the show has really fallen off in recent years but the books are incredible

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

Morgan Zakhary the show sucks when you compare it to the books.

[@zachchang4846]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand George RR Martin and Dave and Dan Weiss had a private parting of the ways after joffrey's wedding that's the last script George RR Martin wrote but they made many many changes to it he did not write another episode for them againeverything Dave and Dan Weiss say about the song of ice and fire series and their relationship to it is BS and everything George RR Martin says about his relationship to Dave and Dan Weiss is him being super super polite

[@jhherkert]

Zach Chang Any idea why the falling out?

[@Trustworthy_McLegitimate]

Just buy and listen to the audio books. Its faster, you can do it while your doing other things. Also, the audio books is hilarious when the voice actor make Arya and Daenerys sound like an Irish man.

[@ruffgirlreviews4527]

Tearing a stone building down would take about 15 years but it would be the best Crossfit workout ever 🤓

[@beanclay4154]

Love your research not just fanboying and fangirling. I never bought the whole R+L=J that is too straightfoward for SOIAF

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@ryandecarlo]

This is deep.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Hey ry! Thanks for watching. And yes it is. :)

[@shaunm7924]

As a former English major who used to love deep-diving into our assigned texts, I thoroughly appreciate you guys' work! Thank you so much for these videos. I especially thank you for the "watch in this order" playlist. Very helpful. I'd love to see a intellectual death-match between you and "Secrets of the Citadel", my other favorite ASOIAF KZbin researcher (who happens to be an R+L=J person). I keep going back and forth between your channels: "N+A=J, obviously! No, wait--R+L=J--it is known! But, wait, no...." etc. :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Shaun M Thank you so much. That would be fun. She's very nice. I've spoken to her a few times now and she's been great every time and even added us to her featured channels and gave me a few video making tips. And I really appreciate her intellectual honesty she showed by publicly commenting on our videos telling us that she is a firm believer in R+L=J but that we put together an impressive case for Ned and Ashara that really made her think and I really like her work on the historical context of the books and characters and how she simply states what is without cherry picking the facts to support her beliefs

[@pushista9322]

Why did Secrets of citadel delete all her videos?

[@mattmcluhan252]

"and to answer that we have to go back to the beginning" best way to start an analysis lol

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...I liked that line too

[@mattwalker6285]

I really like the fact that i saw a response from you guys on near every comment. Kudos. Keep up the wondrous work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we try to respond to everyone...as we grow it is getting increasingly difficult and time-consuming, but we're going to keep it up as long as we can

[@daysofapril2667]

Y’all inspired me to reread the books. Your theories are wild and really delve deep. I still hope Lyanna is Jon’s mother because the story of Ned raising his nephew as his own son and sacrificing his own reputation & personal relationships to do so is a beautiful one, in my opinion.

[@stevefromouterspace]

I really enjoy hearing a different take on things and you guys are awesome. So many fans are locked into R+L=J and other such theories that it sucks the fun out of it. You guys and Preston make it fun to think about something different. Thanks for what you do!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@natemitchell7812]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand Duck is obviously Ashara and Neds bastard he and ned share awkwardness and loyalty to a friend who would be kings the paralells are uncanny ;o

[@frododoodle4759]

LOVE that shots from "The Wire" are interspersed throughout this video! Omar and Bubbles are two of my all time favorite fictional characters.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

The Wire is one of the best shows ever made...and if someone ever tried to tell me they didn't like Bubs or Omar we could never be friends again

[@frododoodle4759]

Agree on both points!

[@snowmercy8446]

Frodo Doodle I second this motion. You should also check out The Corner, same universe as The Wire...Bodymore, Murdaland. Based on nonfiction but it's good.

[@71invictus]

They did Omar dirty, getting capped from behind by a kid? I wanted him to get at Marlo.

[@dredhead117]

I love that you included relevant and appropriate screenshots from the best HBO show ever...... the Wire

[@KayFiedler]

The way you two put your site together is absolutely amazing, love it , best by far.....thank you so much, and please keep them coming....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much kay...we will

[@williamhermann6635]

Ok....your theories and analysis of the books are 2nd to none....but all the clips of The Wire just made me your biggest fan :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we probably rewatch the Wire at least once a year

[@anetabereda2128]

Who are you guys? Seriously. I really enjoy your analysis, as much as I have listened to and watched this past week since stumbling onto your channel, and I would appreciate a video to introduce ""the elephant in the room" so to speak. Are you guys English majors? Truck drivers reading on the long haul? Or writers since childhood, et cetera? (and did you two meet while doing independent analysis on this series or have you been a team since the beginning, feeding off each other in tandem?) You certainly bring a lot of personal scope into your analysis. Such a video introduction, likely, would not directly increase your authority or devalue it. But it would be of interest to the rest of us who feel awed by the work you have done on this series. Really well done too, it is. [Do you have a Twitter account?]

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you very much...that is very nice of you to say...We're just a normal couple that read the books about a year and a half ago and went online to see if anyone else thought what we did, and there was no one, but we thought we were right so we decided to make a couple videos outlining our ideas, not thinking anyone would watch them

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

@gr33nhand is our twitter and we're on facebook as the order of the green hand

[@anetabereda2128]

Do you have any background in literary criticism? Is it a just hobby? Your analysis is deep. It is a credit to GRRM if this is indeed how he created the story, weaving into it all you have deduced, after being dissatisfied with the genre in the 90s. Are you Fantasy genre aficionados (or what is your general reading genre category)? Your analysis gives me an explanation why it is taking GRRM so long to write the story and why the detail in what seems, on the surface, boring. I am ashamed to admit it, but, I have a new found respect for the author's craft after watching your videos.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Neither of us have any sort of literary backgrounds...when we first started dating years ago, I got her into the show/ told her if she doesn't watch it we couldn't be friends ;)...then she got me the books for Christmas a few years ago, but we were busy and never got around to reading them until 2 summers ago...we had heard from people we worked with that Jon was a secret Targaryen and assumed because they read the books and we hadn't, it was true, so we were reading them under the assumption that he was and got to the knight of the laughing tree story, and then Ned Dayne meeting Arya and decided that we needed to start the books over because Jon being a Targaryen no longer made sense to us...then, when reading the books from the standpoint of Jon being Ned's, a whole bunch of other stuff started popping out at us...we tried telling other people what we thought but no one was buying what we were selling, but we were convinced we figured a bunch of stuff about the books out that no one else did, so like I said earlier we made a couple videos, assuming that no one would watch them...and yes...it takes him so long because of how detailed everything is and the way he so meticulously weaves the plotlines together...his books are practically 1200 page poems in the way he chooses his words with incredible care...we think of it kind of like a 6000 page word puzzle

[@anetabereda2128]

The thing that stonewalls me, when trying to think out of the box as you two have done in your videos here on your channel, is that the HBO show runners answered "GRRM's question "who is Jon Snow's parents?" So the fable goes, their correct answer is how they won/earned the rights to do the TV show (subtly named for the first book and NOT for the book series). This line of story has always struck me sideways as too... cliché. I am not a meticulous reader so I appreciate the series on one level, which really does not address GRRM's dissatisfaction with cliché Fantasy up 'til the 1990s. Your analysis does do that and I find myself thinking about the story in a whole new light because of it - almost a different story. A Song of Ice & Fire, to me, is the first literary work in the genre because it interweaves not only history and folklore (like Tolkien) but also literary references from other genres into its story. I do still hope you will do an intro video. You have a theory worthy of academic study. medieval-fantasy.pl/5.html Thanks for broadening my mind.

[@sitabita262]

I just had a thought. If you think of the Tower of Joy as a metaphor, it makes sense to think of Winterfell as Ned's Tower of Joy. Which means that Lyanna was at Ned's Tower of Joy AKA Winterfell.

[@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218]

Especially because no one but Ned and Howland Reed know where the tower was, as they destroyed it after as well.

[@williamhermann6635]

I dont think TOJ ever happened. It was a lie and Lyanna was at Starfall the entire time. Ned's companions who "died" in battle are probably in service to House Dayne now.

[@Peter-nq7qb]

Just wanted to say that I just found you guys and the fact that you use screenshots from The Wire so frequently made me instantly subscribe. Will definitely be watching more.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

love that show. :D

[@thebovineavenger]

I think the fans agree. Its time for blood raven. The love triangle of him and possibly Nan and Dunk. Its also time for us to HEAR ABOUT VAL. Love the work you guys do. Keep it up.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much!!! i really appreciate it. we will be getting into old nan, and bloodraven, very soon. we are almost there. we try to build a narrative around the story so it takes a bit longer than we anticipate, but I promise it's coming soon.

[@thebovineavenger]

Whatever you do in these vids. They keep us coming back. You do a GREAT job at putting it all together into something that MAKES sense. So many other just repeat what they hear. You guys do a great job in YOUR OWN words that makes it all so wonderful

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...it means a lot to us that people actually notice that the narrative we are painstakingly building makes sense and can bring all of these seemingly unrelated plot-lines together into a cohesive story, and that these are our thoughts, not just something we read somewhere and are trying to claim it as our own...thank you so much...and Val is leading off our next video...and I didn't see your comment before bc she answered it but nice pull with Old Nan and Dunk...I'm not going to say any more because we want to do a video on it but if you're thinking what I think you are, you're the first person I've talked to that seems to see the same thing there that we do

[@thebovineavenger]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand Haahahhaha. 7 years later I still agree.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

I've listen to each of your non-livestream videos at least 4 times, but rarely ever watched them. I just out them on while I work on something else. Only now did I notice The Wire memes, after you mentioned them in your last livestream :D I don't know the show, but if you two enjoyed it so much, I'm sad to see you've stopped because some people didn't like them This video is the one you bought me for on your theories!

[@rhyslarsen9177]

I d love to see a video on blood raven

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

ask and you shall receive...we have a few videos planned first but give us a few weeks and we'll have something for you

[@bulbafett5001]

Awesome, I'd also love to see some stuff on Bloodraven.

[@TheSomewhereElse]

The Order of the Green Hand I'd love to see one on Blood raven as well

[@neferanubis4749]

kk piter me too anything on him or the faceless men

[@joannamaria1353]

Kyle's Fookin Chickens did an awesome video on this topic 👌

[@FACULTATIVECARNIVORES]

Your analyses are top shelf. No one, pun intended, does better work of ASOIAF/GOT. What you have done here is comparable to the novels themselves. Organized and comprehensible...WELL DONE!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much!!

[@michaelstark8720]

No one beats the High Ground Obi Wan know that best of all hahahah

[@AryaandherPrayers]

I’m going to have to watch this another 5 times because this had the most information yet. You officially caused my brain to overload

[@v8Buster87]

One of the best channels I ever accidentally clicked on.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

yay! Thanks for watching.

[@davidcipolla4036]

HAHAHAHAHA OMG that "Where's Wallace at?" pic is so perfect in the video. The timing is spot on too! 💯🙌🤣😁

[@georgeroberts9111]

OH MY... Order Of ?The Green Hand....You just made my day about tearing down a building with some swords and horses...RITFLOLWTFOL....Wooo, I needed that~! :D

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

as someone who grew up working masonry every summer, the part about two guys with a few horses and swords tearing down a stone tower really stuck out to me as physically impossible given the time constraints and the need to care for a newborn baby

[@GNieddu1]

This was great, thanks for the upload. Psyched for part two and the Blood Raven. It's so refreshing to have good fan theory that is based on the text and not influenced by the show. Thanks!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you very much. We try very hard not to be influenced by the show. It is difficult because they change so much that we constantly have to go look up whether things happened in the show and the books or just in the show or just in the books to try and keep it all straight. Enjoy part 2 and our next video should be ready in a few hours so stay tuned

[@jsull81]

I just found your channel and so far I'm loving it. but I didn't hit the Subscribe button until I noticed the wire quotes!! mixing my favorite drama with my favorite fantasy, nice work! " How my hair look Mike?" ~Snoop

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...Michael was one of my favorites...I had higher hopes for him than being Omar Jr

[@jsull81]

The Order of the Green Hand Ya, his ending was sad, not to mention Dookie, and how he left him. Like you, I thought Mike was better than that

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

dookie being bubs jr might have been the saddest moment in that entire series

[@jsull81]

The Order of the Green Hand Agreed, that and when Bodie had to kill little Wallace

[@GerryBolger]

Aaaaand I'm subbed. Great video, insightful, interesting and fun. Plus you can't go wrong with pictures of The Wire. Btw, Bloodraven is one of the most fascinating characters in ASoIaF. He's the closest thing to an actual sorcerer in the story. A thousand eyes and one....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you!! we are so happy that people like our videos. we had no idea what we were doing, in terms of making videos, up until like a month ago. we are learning as we go, but are so excited about the responses we've gotten . i totally agree that bloodraven is one of the most fascinating characters. we have had so many debates about him, and finally landed on the fact that he does things, that are sometimes extremely deplorable, but for a greater purpose, a purpose that we cannot even begin to comprehend. we are going to do a bloodraven video soon. thanks again for watching.

[@nathanmccracken9238]

A Bloodraven video would be awesome!!! One of my favorite characters in the Asoiaf world

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Coming soon

[@deanshield886]

Can you imagine Marlo & Cersei: the red keep streets n' no chill?

[@paulaespo4577]

i wish i could transfer all of your knowledge into my brain! you guys do such an outstanding job with your videos. the information you share is worth reading a dozen books. I wish you great fortune in the wars to come! :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much

[@mickeydoodle69]

Great stuff guys. I always wondered why Ned didn't take so much as a retinue. No tale, no column. They'd just won a war, and Ned goes to fight the enemy's strongest assets with a bachelor weekend of bros & buds. So sketchy.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

everything about that Ned fever dream bothered me...at first, I couldn't even figure out why they were fighting...Ned is the uncle...why would they fight to the death following that conversation? Then didn't even ask what Ned and his companions intentions were...then I asked myself the questions that you just pointed out and why the three kingsguard were outside drawing attention and not in a position to defend anyone...then I decided that can't be what happened because it makes no sense

[@mickeydoodle69]

The Order of the Green Hand the famous set up: "he dreamed an old dream"..."Old Dream" is very specific there. Not "his mind wandered back", or "He found himself back", but "he dreamed an old dream". It's misleading. Are people's reoccurring dreams usually just raw recollection? I think you could argue that an "old" dream is - for most people - complete invention. It's not as if he's generally, constantly haunted by this. This is the only mention of Ned Dreaming this dream in all the books. So it's not a memory that's invading his consciousness. It's funny because this scenario seems far more likely than the accepted interpretation that the Dream was only a flawed, traumatic memory. How much do you buy into as regards the glass candles, and the possibility of using them to influence a person's dreams?

[@Aliexei]

Found my second favorite YT ASoIaF channel. Really nice researched videos. Keep up the great work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...we will

[@ladysatine9962]

Love to know more about varys

[@thisguy8106]

Re watching y'alls videos yet again. It cures the withdraws and it also helps to continue learning the tangled web that has been created in this amazing story.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we're recording our next video as we speak...its probably my favorite we've done so far...I can't wait to get it online

[@artostheimplacable4095]

This one is great. Better late than never, for me XD

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

much appreciated

[@ocky88]

Can I just say I LOVE The Wire references in your videos? Omar and Marlo were my fave characters-- Marlo being the perfect villain in my eyes. Well, that and I love your GoT content as well (obviously).

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much

[@jonathandr24]

love your theories

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you!

[@kaseyfife5205]

Great stuff you two, I love it! Please don't take offense to me saying this, but it warms my heart to see such detail in tinfoil, which I don't believe to be as such. It makes me miss my work when I did ASOIAF theory, I have VERY similar notions when it came to the Hightowers and maesters, and one of my favorite theories was that of the kingsguard being alive and well, as well as Bael the Bard and the Wolf Maid. My favorite video was that of the significance of Ned's fever dream and his inability to fully recall the faces, the tower itself and the destruction of the tower. It's also very interesting to think of Gerold Hightower as the white bull, and his part played in Lyanna's disappearance is subtle regad to Zeus (long story, but VERY interesting nonetheless). All this myth and legend so beautifully played out in not only George's myth creation, but his subtle clues within the text that mirrors SO much actual myth and legend. And THAT is the detail I see with you two, beautifully, BEAUTIFULLY done! I'm so glad someone stuck to this community and delves into these ideas as I did at one time! Subbed, and thank you, it helps me love the series again, and remind me of how much more there is to learn and love. Even though I won't be in the ASOIAF KZbin community, I'm glad you two will, thank you and keep it up! You have my support 100%!

[@kaseyfife5205]

Oh, and p.s., my foremost favorite topic was Bloodraven. Particularly in contrast to Loki and Fenrir, the wolf bound in the cave who bit off the hand of Tyr, champion of men (Bran and Jaime. Jaime "bound" Bran in Bloodraven's cave). Bloodraven is amazing and UNBELIEVABLY detailed, mysterious and methodical. I'm one of the crazies that believes he is the LoL, who is a facade of the CotF. I love, LOVE BR! I'd love to see your guys' ideas!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you very much

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We've just got to finish up a few topics we've been promising to touch and then we're going to get into Bloodraven and the Children of the Forest

[@gllyflower]

OMG when I got to "They had a baby to feed and care for" and tried to picture tearing down a stone bldg with swords and horses I started laughing so hard I did an actual spit take with my drink.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

haha when we had that conversation one night I too literally laughed out loud when Dave told me it would take like years to tear down a stone building, and then we both were like and what were they doing with the baby while this was going on.

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

The Order of the Green Hand well Ned did just father a son so maybe he used his man tits.

[@kaisaimmonen5846]

FANTASTIC! I really want to see your part two video. Also I'm keen on seeing more info about Bloodraven and Varys! You guys sure know what you are doing. Because I read the books in Finnish so is nice to read in your videos the same text in English!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Kaisa Immonen thank you so much! We are so glad people enjoy the videos. We try to stick to the text as it is written, because the way I see it, it's already a masterpiece. We have a few other videos in the Mysteries, Myths, and Motives series which touch upon the ideas presented in this video. The bloodraven/varys videos are coming up after we finish the wars to come. There's so much info that it'll likely be multiple videos. :-)

[@kaisaimmonen5846]

The long night is upon us near the artic circle😀 when the spring comes then the sun will rise again so until then your videos lights up our days (my husband and I)! It's fabulous that you give the credits to Martin who really has updated the fantasy genre! Your videos are the best ones in the KZbin because you guys go deep in to the Martin's work. Fabulous!! ❤

[@geompat1]

Would love a Bloodraven video!

[@brianjsmith7533]

You should certainly make a Bloodraven video as well. Your theories are the most probable that I have heard. Thank you for your work .

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much! bloodraven is coming soon! the videos take a while to make, and clearly we go through the details painstakingly. haha but i promise it will be soon.

[@josephbiscotto1816]

wow... 1st time ive actually heard this theory and so interesting and actually sounds plausible. well done!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...the ToJ scene bothered us from the very first time we read Ned's fever dream...we looked at each other and were like I don't even understand why they fought

[@josephbiscotto1816]

The Order of the Green Hand couldn't agree more. the one thing that never made sense to me was that they pretty much all wanted the same thing so why wouldnt they talk about w common sense instead of killing each other? i mean we all know Lyannawasnt kidnapped. well done. This resonated w me. As far as Mance Rayder and Lyana not being there and the rest Im not to sure about that but either way well done.

[@josephbiscotto1816]

rhaegar lyanna=Aegon

[@ranica47]

Excellent content and delivery guys, very well researched. Subscribed. 🙂

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thanks so much

[@chriskelley5587]

you have earned a new subscriber here. well done

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@nedo211]

So I've basically change all my theories now, haha. Love your analysis! I was just wondering which is the next part of this theory?

[@tracyramey7564]

Thank You!!!! The whole thing about dismantling the tower has always made no sense to me!

[@xgidx]

Love all "The Wire" pictures in this video.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...a few idiots tried to say we were racist for using them

[@dblackesquire]

Great work.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@Kevin-JH]

I love the Wire quotes.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

so many people didn't get it that we stopped using pop culture reverences...we even had people calling us racist and what have you for using the Wire, as if it isn't in the top 5 shows ever to grace a tv screen...maybe our audience isn't old enough to know how good the Wire was or something

[@parkerreid1284]

Loved this video, very intersting points and connections. Also have to say i love everyting from The Wire. I live in Baltimore and you may have inspired me to rewatch it as im waiting for the next season of GoT.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...the Wire was sooo good...still probably my favorite show ever

[@grayjackgaming1746]

I've only recently came across this wonderful channel. After watching a couple different playlist I'm now working thru the "recommended order playlist" so forgive me if you've address this question elsewhere.. Seeing as how we've now see the tower of joy thru Bran, do you guys still think see Arthur Dane is alive and is mance?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

yes...I feel like they were practically shouting from the top of a mountain that the way they showed it on the show isn't accurate...they couldn't even be bothered to have the right number of guys there...George also said that Ned's dream (which is how we see that scene in the books) was a fever dream and shouldn't be taken literally, and the way they showed it on the show was a bastardized version of his dream...I'm still upset that Dawn looked like they picked it up at Toys R Us instead of a 6 foot long glowing white sword

[@savny5]

More about Blood Raven, please!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+SCHarborGal There's a nice little nugget at the end of the video we released earlier today that you might find interesting. It's called the Wars to Come

[@WillingOneness]

Would LOVE to hear your insights about Bloodraven!

[@shawnyetman6875]

great work. love the wire memes

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Shawn yetman great show! "Just a gangsta I suppose" that quote is in part 2, perfect line for varys! Haha. Thanks for watching, and for commenting . :)

[@deanshield886]

Walgrave loves to snitch on those Ravens watch your back Flaco LOL!

[@BiteThis]

Hmm i dabbled in this theory quite a bit but i recently swapped to a different theory about varys being a descendent of daemon blackfyre and lady mysaria, the mistress of whisperers who rivaled bloodravens skill. The main thing that drove me to this is that i do not believe the golden company would ever help a targaryen, the sole purpose they were founded was to overthrow the targaryens and go back to Westeros. Which makes me think young griff is a blackfyre.

[@mahathirahmad559]

Well , the current Golden Company do not strive to achieve the same goals it used to when it was found , at present they are ready to do anything if victory is ensured and the payment is enough ( although there's a karma that The Golden Company has never won in Westeros but that's a different matter )

[@BiteThis]

@@mahathirahmad559 I disagree, a lot of the Golden Company are descendants of exiled Westerosi who were against the Targaryens, and feuds carry on through generations. I mean the Golden Company still travels around with Bittersteels skull.

[@mahathirahmad559]

Many of the sellswords under Golden Company lie of their actual bloodlines as there is no way to prove them wrong ( Tyrion , ADWD ) and have golden company displayed any motive to pursue their original goals yet? They haven't. Regardless of Aegon's identity , the sellswords and even high ranking members believe that Aegon is a Targaryen. Does Harry Strickland seem someone who would devote himself for an old cause ? No , its gold and victory whats matters. Most of the points of Aegon as a Blackfyre theory lies on speculation and there is no solid evidence regarding it. Even the "Mummer's Dragon" can be explained in several other days.

[@BiteThis]

There is no solid evidence that Aegon is a Targaryen either, thats what allows theories to be crafted. Id say theres more evidence that Aegon isnt a "real" Targaryen than not. Why would Varys not save Rhaenys as well? Strickland didn't want to go East to help Daenerys, and was more than ready to head West without her. I mean the Golden Company's saying is, " beneath the gold, the bitter steel," they obviously hold bittersteel in high esteem and will still value his ideals. The sellswords in the Golden Company are going to do whatever the high ranking members tell them, and theres no way to know that they are all under the impression Aegon is a Targaryen. If Aegon isnt a real Targaryen id doubt that he would know or even Connington. Now this is all speculation because if there was any solid evidence on who Aegon is there would be no debate.

[@mahathirahmad559]

Well , this Aegon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's child not Rhaegar and Elia's. Varys didn't save either Rhaenys or Aegon ( R+E ) becoz he couldn't , they are dead. It is known. Harry Strickland did not head East because of the obvious skirmishes between the Slave Cities "Beneath the gold , the bitter steel" has turned into a bare motto now which displays their origin Again , we can't say anything till The Winds of Winter. Although Aegon Blackfyre would be a interesting plot twist , it still lacks enough evidences and there has to be a child of Rhaegar and Lyanna and it is Young Griff who timewise makes the more sense ( at least , more than Jon Snow )

[@LB-ou8wt]

I definitely agree that there are pieces out of place with the juggling of baby, horse, sword, sister's corpse, tearing down tower, etc. I also definitely agree that the Howland Reed/Ned Stark/Sir Arthur Dayne situation was different from what we saw in the series. Perhaps a conversation where Reed helped Ned convince Dayne to let Ned take the child.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

yea the whole story is really suspect.

[@meadprinceofruddyhall1265]

I like your narration and use of vast knowledge of the text. The conclusions you draw from the text pieces you cite are huge leaps, however. I'll keep listening.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thanks for watching. :)

[@Wymmerdann]

I feel that a lot of these videos follow the pattern of "here's a slight textual ambiguity, wouldn't it be cool if...", whereas the claims made generally require a lot more evidence than is actually provided. George laces his work with plots and conspiracies, but tends to provide firmer evidence. Discounting rare nuggets of insight [Ned's fever dream] because they dont fit these theories seems....limited scholarship. For example, the motif of blue flowers ties Jon Snow heavily to Lyanna, and the rusty iron dragon and mummer's dragon ties Aegon heavily to House Blackfyre. These are the substantial breadcrumbs that should be harnessed, rather than not-actually-incongruent descriptions. An excellent example would be Ned's respect for Arthur Dayne, which you imply is incompatible with Ned having fought/killed him. This seems absurd, as in war, who you fight has essentially no relation to who you respect, and the recurring theme of the Kingsguard is of good men sworn in the service of limited rulers and flawed vows. George RR Martin was a conscientious objector, and a large portion of his series rests on the absurdity and unforseen consequences of war. The ambiguity implies that Ned didn't kill Arthur in a straight up duel, and to be honest, the tv show gives a prety plausible explanation for how it all went down. As for the lack of strategy: the Targaryen cause was lost, and if the Kingsguard holed up in their tower, they would be easily starved or sniped. Their deaths were a death by cop necessitated by their dead prince's orders, and an nwillingness to bend the knee to an Usurper who killed their Liege.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We don't find the fact that Ned and Arthur were enemies in war to be incompatible with Ned respecting him...we find the story about Arthur helping to kidnap his sister and fighting him to the death to prevent Ned from bringing his sister home incompatible with the respect Ned has for him...we also think the story that people think is true is impossible because Arthur's older brother named his heir after Ned...if Ned killed Arthur and scorned Ashara, resulting in her suicide, why would the Lord of Starfall be named after him? why does the Mummer's (Varys') Dragon have to be a Blackfyre? and we discount the details of Ned's fever dream, because GRRM himself said to...he said that we got that information through a dream, and a fever dream at that, and dreams are not always literal when asked about it...

[@rsslnhllngswrth]

awesome videos guys!! keep it up! i would love to hear a video about bloodraven!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...coming soon

[@deanshield886]

The Kings Guard I know their R&B albums were so lit just by the lp cover with them in all white with swords.

[@thisiskamTV]

Love it. I'm tuned in! Have you guys considered including your written portion with a link to the video on the amino app?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thanks!! no never considered that. what is it?? how do we do that? :) haha

[@thisiskamTV]

The Order of the Greenhand It's a community app. It almost works like Instagram in the sense that people can follow you and you can follow them. But everyone on there is a fan of the series. You can download it on your smartphone. Search game of thrones amino...I added a picture of what the interface looks like as a reference. I'm sure you script your videos...you could use the app to post a written version of your theory and also provide the video links to your KZbin channel...just a suggestion. I'm on there as well. My username is Shoot the Messenger. I'll follow you if you join for sure! Lol _lh3.googleusercontent.com/aOUfh7FbpfcVSsCSWoQWJtepcQuNX3nEAJOSTO9gVTLwKip4dpd7BKNE6aaqBXagL4nJUOs_

[@dalibork]

And this video with the graphics from The Wire, you rock!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thanks!! we love that show

[@treylax1855]

Y'all got me dead af with these Wire cutshots! 🤣

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Best show ever

[@nadertayeh6809]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand hell yeah I boycotted game of thrones this year so I just rewatched the wire

[@six6ave]

By the way I love your analysis, thank you so much

[@akeelbrown7675]

If i was ned I wouldn't be able to control myself around ashara dayne, holy shit😍 (I know its fan art but still)

[@shiningstaer]

I REALLY LOVE YOUR VIDEOS!!!!

[@bobhollywood6292]

love the wire photos.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

its our favorite show ever

[@Willz828]

Dorne is the best place for lyanna to be hidden, its hard to traverse and its in the center of one of their best alloances cuz marraige, not to mention “cheating” is a very 2000’s relationship take, dornish encourage polygamy

[@loufrontier9812]

Sorry for where this popped up I'm watching your video playlist. haha.

[@AMansWorldPodcast]

I’m late but I love y’all channel 💯

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you !!

[@reconstructo]

This theory, that those kings guard are in the far north, is so much fun! I don’t care if it’s true, I’m enjoying the idea.

[@djwunwun2899]

Wow just found you, love the vids. I got super excited when you dropped the Arther Dayne is Mance Rayder bit! I actually did a couple of videos way back in July saying the same thing! . Iol I'm kinda known in our lil G.O.T. community for seeing the other side of things. Cool to see someone who shares a view. Great vids keep em coming....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...Arthur being Mance was one of the first theories we came up with

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I just read my response and saw it kind of came off rude and wanted to make sure you knew that it wasn't intended to be...thanks so much for watching

[@djwunwun2899]

No worries. & no offense taken. I know how it is answering 30 people, can only imagine replying to 150....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

The comment section is borderline overwhelming...especially since we hated on Catelyn...some people are acting like we were talking about their mothers

[@djwunwun2899]

LOL sounds about right for this community. You should see some of the back & forth's I get for my Mad King is Jon's Dad video's. It drives them nuts other people have different POV's on certain story lines. Love how jazzed up this story gets people, & congrats on so many subs so fast! Just shows they like you they really like you! ( in my best Sally Fields voice)....

[@sevenp2sevena]

Love the shout-outs to the Wire.... Glad I found you guys.... Analysis is great....

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...the Wire is one of the best shows I've ever seen...the type that almost requires a once a year binge watch

[@sevenp2sevena]

Once in a year?!? I usually watch around one season a month...lol

[@tracywhitlock5395]

I understand that these videos are about a month old, but i have to tell you, i truly enjoy your videos and analysis. I'm only a show watcher and haven't picked up the books yet, it seems a daunting task for a semi-slow reader...therefore i thoroughly enjoy your videos that has a lot of quotes and information from the books. Forgive me if you've already done so, i am going through your videos now but i would be very interested in your opinions/analysis of the book only character Patchface and his prophetic songs. I'd love to see any video regarding what you think of all different prophecies?? Being book readers, you see/sense more of that dynamic than a simple show watcher. Thanks and I hope the Order of the Green Hand continues to make more videos (I also enjoy that your videos are a bit longer than most about Game of Thrones), it helps me get through the "off-season" for the show. THANKS AGAIN and keep up the good work! Your take on things is AWESOME!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Tracy Whitlock Thank you. We have a few projects to do first but we'd be happy to do a patchface video. His songs are very strange. If I were Stannis that creature wouldn't be anywhere near my daughter

[@ShadeoftheEvening]

Y'all r AWESOME 🐺🐲

[@xdragonxb0i]

Great video Mr. Howard Hamlin.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hahaa he def does sound just like him!

[@christophertracy7136]

These novels have plots within plots!!

[@rickyhunt4075]

love the wire pics

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you. We try to bring a little humor to our videos. Otherwise it's too lectury and this is supposed to be fun

[@TheDeadsoldier123]

The Order of the Green Hand nmj

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

?

[@scottculbert4971]

I love y’alls videos

[@scottculbert4971]

Thanks for the feedback there’s only two of my subscriptions I have that I watch everything they’ve done one is y’all two which I enjoy most of all another is emergency awesome he’s a mainly show info but I really enjoy y’all because of the research and theres no BS in y’all vids and GRRM has said that only one or two souls actually knows what’s going on in ASOIAF and if u were to look at KZbin it’s full of R+L=J and y’all are virtually the only ones addressing the idea that John is Ned and ashara dayne Love child and legitimate son and I absolutely love your Caitlyn Sucks vids lol bravo bravo

[@justwannapost69]

Truly I have been blessed. The Order and Preston Jacobs have opened my eyes to the one true king. CHAD SUMMERCHILD!!!!

[@monsterwatchtruecrime]

A bubbles reference in a game of thrones video!!!!!! I love you guys

[@johnmitchell4043]

I think the tower of joy was starfall. Reaghar hid lyanna in the home of his best friend. He might have sent his measter with ashara as she travelled from whiteharbour to starfall as she was pregnant.

[@Thaistickthai]

Can we just all admit that the Hightowers are just garbage. Like every noble family reaches to climb the ladder but I swear every time a Hightower makes a move or is even involved in an event, the offending Hightower either fails miserably and the realm suffers or the Hightower is successful and... The realm suffers for it. Screw the Hightowers!

[@bradwolf07]

I never had a clue who the Half Master could have been...this is interesting

[@Erebdai]

Love your videos. I often listen to them in the background as I relax after work. Does the Citadel have a interview process or can any literate person enroll? How many chains must someone forge to become a maester? Are there any knights that also attended the citadel?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Hi!, and thank you so much! Let me get back to you on those questions regarding the Citadel, I honestly am not 100% sure and don't want to give you wrong info. brb

[@ruffgirlreviews4527]

I love your videos. Could you do one on Brans Destiny 😊

[@andrewwood9422]

for a mad maid you certainly picked a damm good picture

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we tend to end up with good-looking people in our art...Lady Green Hand won't have it any other way

[@andrewwood9422]

A good decision id say

[@Rahim.ali80]

I always wondered why they fought as well but we have to remember how loyal they were to the Crown & especially to Prince Rhaegar Targaryen not Lyanna Stark. Rhaegar Targaryen also was just killed by Robert Baratheon Ned Stark best friend so there might have been hate in their blood for Robert & Ned. Losing a close friend then seeing the murderer friend right in front of you your emotional would most likely be going crazy causing you to act in a manner that isn't logical or reasonable. PS love this fucking channel 1 of my favorite Lord's next to Lord Robert (in deep geek) & 1 of my favorite Ladies next to Lady Gemma(secrets of the citadel) & my sweet summer mother Grey Area.

[@CaroleS2512]

I just found some exciting information about Melisandre - I'm working on it just now :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think I might have an idea of what you're talking about and am looking forward to seeing it. Thanks again for watching

[@CaroleS2512]

I don't have the skills and equipment to make a video, but here's a short synopsis of the information: There's lots of information in westeros.org to suggest Melisandre is the daughter of Shierra Seastar - the result of Shierra and Bloodraven's relationship. Although they never married, they often lay together. Both Melisandre and Shierra Seastar are described as having heart-shaped faces, slim waist, full breasts, full lips. Both favour dressing in red. Melisandre remembers her real name was Melony, and she was sold as a slave when she was young. Bizarrely, she remembers she was called "Lot 7". Melisandre is fairly tall for a woman, and her height would have come from Bloodraven, rather than Shierra, who was not very tall. Part of the theory states that Mel was sold as a slave to protect her from people who may wish her harm, should they realise she is a child of Bloodraven. Both Mel's mother and grandmother were said to use the dark arts to disguise their true age - this is an ability Mel exhibits too. Shierra herself wore a distinctive necklace made of silver, with alternating stones of sapphires and emeralds. Mel also wears a distinctive necklace with hexagonal shaped pieces, the centrepiece being a large ruby, which is the stone associated with Targaryens. Maybe this is why she is able to detect "Kings' blood", since she appears to be one herself, if she really is Bloodraven's child.

[@robertmaybeth3434]

OP uo have a pretty good voice for narration. Unlike some of the people making these Game of Thrones video things. have heard audio books and you have a voice sfor that. When i started listening in the middle of one of your videos i actually thought it was an audio book.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much