Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths, and Motives | Littlefinger: Debt by Design

[@FilipCordas]

She was about to ask when is Winds of Winter coming out.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hahahahaha....that's what I was thinking too

[@FilipCordas]

No wonder you hate her so much..

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

its clearly Catelyn's fault the book is taking so long

[@Giondi]

Well damn, she fucks up everything.

[@deanshield886]

She is the Meg of GOT LOL!

[@varamyrz2920]

I think the best summary of Baelish is a line from the TV series: *"He would see this country (Westeros) burn if he could be King of the Ashes".*

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I would take that one step further...he would burn the whole of westeros to the ground himself if it meant he would be the king of the ashes

[@varamyrz2920]

The Order of the Green Hand Yes, no argument here! :-)

[@made-line7627]

I'm not going to fight them. I'm going to _f*ck_ them.

[@chiaroscuroamore]

"LittleFinger and the batshit sisters" 😂😂😂😂 love it! So true!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Hell ya!

[@Ladyblanche85]

Sounds like a movie title. And since it's supposed to have LF in it, I'd totally watch it. :D

[@Altorin]

Lady lothsten was a bat

[@MrFirextinguisher]

I think she was involved with the letter that was originally sent. It wouldn’t be surprising to find out that Pyter was involved in the making of the childhood language of cat and lysha, especially when they were living together. I can’t say I know the full game they were trying to play, But the way littlefinger talks about cat, and how cat reminisces about pyter: to me it feels as if they were still in correspondence over the past 15 years at the least, and at the most potentially still good friends/paramours But what I do know, is that cat is the shadiest character in this book

[@drdre1964]

Littlefinger's cooking show: And today we will be learning how to cook books.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hahaha...love your cooking reference...did you survive that last scene somehow? I'd love to see you and Jesse back in action

[@drdre1964]

Lol that actually works on so many levels, even though it was unintended. Love your videos! The wait for Winds grows more and more interesting...

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

it really does...thank you so much

[@AzaleaJane]

but every episode

[@thomtisher]

1. Catlyn, "Does Varys know you slept with Lysa and not me?" 2. Catlyn, "Does Varys know about the murder attempt?" 3. Catlyn, "Does Varys know how stupid I am?"

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Haha...I'm partial to option 3

[@jorenvanderark3567]

Thom Tisher No, yes and who dosn't

[@theblueknight9746]

She was about to ask if Varys knows about Pod "The Rod."

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think you're on to something

[@DukeOfMalarkey]

In response to your viewer question: Keeping in mind the videos you've made about Catelyn and her supposed plan to get Eddard Stark to King's Landing, and the whole debacle following that, I think Catelyn knows about Littlefinger's involvement in the plot to implicate the Lannisters in the murder of Jon Arryn (or at least she's suspecting it). Since Littlefinger doesn't want anyone to know that there's a plot there, he interrupts her by saying "Varys knows everything", thereby softening the mood of any of Varys' "little birds" that might be listening.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That is just about word for word what we think, except we even think that the mayhem and chaos she causes after her 3 days with LF, where they talked about god knows what, was done purposely...she continuously thinks the situation through, shows a full understanding of the consequences of her options, then chooses the most harmful option...she really appears to have been purposely creating the chaos necessary for LF to succeed, and her willingness to do it suggests that she wanted Ned's secrets to die with him, just like she says when his bones are shown to her

[@DukeOfMalarkey]

But I doubt Catelyn did all of that because she wanted Littlefinger to succeed in whatever plan he was having. There has got to be another reason for her doing all of this... I think Catelyn has her children's best interest at heart and that she would do anything to keep them safe. That she doesn't succeed in this becomes clear to her at the Red Wedding. The last few passages of that chapter makes me think she clawed her face open and became insane.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I personally think she was willing to help because she either knew or suspected that Jon has a better claim to Winterfell than her children. It's all about "the victory for the sake of her children" she was thinking about in her second POV chapter

[@gogozeppeli9267]

@@TheOrderoftheGreenhand but jon went to the night watch so she dont has to worry about him anymore......

[@aidanderson53X]

If she thought little finger was behind it why the fuck would she trust him?

[@emilyyork9583]

Plus Carelyn was at the brothel 3 days, 3 days before her husband found out. Little Finger and Cat were sooooo up to something.

[@gholamdapantaloonsniffer8218]

I mean that was because Littlefinger didn't tell Ned for a few days.....

[@elam3654]

It sounds so me like Lysa actually confessed to killing Jon Arryn in that letter, in the encoded part. Catelyn burned the letter immediately because she knew that Ned would go full Knights Templar on Lysa, and have her head on a spike. The main reason Cat would be on board with protecting Lysa, would be to protect her from another forced abortion, and any potential unborn child she carried. She collaborates with Littlefinger because she knows Lysa always had a soft spot for him and assumes is also out to protect her. Therefore, the most likely question she was about to ask Littlefinger was "Does Varys know Lysa killed Jon Arryn?" Littlefinger cuts her off with "Varys knows everything, except why you're here", meaning: "He knows everything except that." Beyond that though, Cat's involvement gets sketchy because it kind of demands she becomes either ignorant or stupid (from the "Catelyn sucks" piece, this doesn't seem far fetched). Someone has to take the blame for Arryn's death. Since Catelyn assumes the Lannisters tried to kill Bran, she's on board with the Lannisters taking the fall for Arryn as well. Since Catelyn wants to go to war over Bran anyways, and she wants to protect her sister, she's willing to support Littlefinger since they have mutual interests.

[@gas467]

I would take it a step further, I think after meeting Joffrey she knows leaving Sansa with him is dangerous. However she can't just say no to the king, it would ruin their connection to the crown and it would be blatantly challenging the Lannisters without just cause. So she schemes with LF to get rid of that issue. Especially after she thinks they tried to kill Bran.

[@reyniknamyrion3557]

I always thought Catelyn was simply surprised that someone had figured out she was in King's Landing so quickly after her arrival. As for "Does Varys know about..." Well, ellipses are used to show someone trailing off, using context to convey their meaning. I thought Catelyn had been aware that Littlefinger, being close to Lysa, was at least aware of the letter and was asking whether Varys knew about the letter without saying so, in case they were overheard.

[@kaleomungin]

Wait, "Does Varys know I'm in King's Landing?" doesn't that make the most sense? And the "So soon?" Maybe she was thinking about how she was found so quickly, which makes her wonder if Varys also knows if she's there

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

the fact that he cut her off so she couldn't say it when it had already been established that Varys knew she was in KL at that point and he had just said that Varys would be there any minute now makes me feel like he didn't want to risk Varys overhearing whatever he assumed she was about to say

[@jackbelmont4389]

I dont know why but i always laugh of ned's reaction like on his first day as hand they go "oh btw we are in crippleing debt" and ned goes "Whatm How?"

[@Thullin00]

Everytime you say "so let's do this" i get the biggest smile on my face.

[@Thullin00]

Man i don't understand Catelyn. She seems to love Eddard yet you guys have brought into light this new and very convincing theory with catelyn. What was she up to?

[@betterthansex123]

I actually hate when she says that. I find it annoying as hell.

[@bursegsardaukar]

Getting two strong houses to fight each other is actually an idea of Blofeld of Spectre from James Bond. After one of the two houses have been defeated, you kill the survivor while it is still exhausted. If anything else, I think Petyr have some vendetta against House Stark especially Ned for taking Catelyn as his bride.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

it is definitely a good war tactic...why fight someone when they are strong, when you can pit them against someone else that is strong, then wipe the victor out when they are at their weakest

[@benagaran20]

I think we all know who's side Robert would have chosen in the end. He would have chosen Ned's side. Ned is his bro for life. He could finally rid himself of Cersei and wipe out 3 million in debt if he wins. Plus he could loot Casterly Rock and gain enough gold to pay off the rest of his debt and still have enough to throw one hell of a feast.

[@MrSkillen]

She was probably referring to "Does Varys know about Jon Arryn?" As in that they suspect the Lannisters had killed him. Or he took Cat's maidenhood. haha

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

This line has been driving me crazy for the better part of a year now

[@MrSkillen]

It meant something!!! But seriously that's so ambiguous I think GRRM trolled us. The only person who can/could confirm what it meant was Baelish and probably the only chance to have him do that is if he feels like sharing with Sansa. You already explained Cat is shady as hell; whatever she meant to say can't be good if they wouldn't say it out loud and Petyr refracted the question away immediately. Possibly not her Maidenhood as he is known to brag about that to everyone.

[@joshualindquist9305]

The Order of the Green Hand wouldn't it be safe to assume that Catelyn new Littlefinger screwed Liza several times and even sired a child and she still had feelings for him? And possibly fathered her son. If this was known, it would put Littlefinger on the radar as a deceiver. Probably would not get away with most of his shit. He understands the game, it's moves, the other players moves and the prize. He's seen as an "other" an outsider, just like Tyrion said...no land, banners to call, ect...he's able to do what he does because he values knowledge, not from a text, but from the game and it's players. If nobody knows he's playing and he knows everyone's motives and dirty secrets, he can use them as leverage. Just like he did with Ned. He knew why he was there, what type of man he was and what he would do. Ned didn't understand the rules and his inability to adapt to a dishonest world got him killed.

[@gerardjagroo]

MrSkillen805 Did he know you impregnated Lysa? They were talking about Lysa before so it's logical that her question was concerning Lysa!

[@deanshield886]

Naw she frown's on weakness she about them Stark studs though...

[@johnathankinne3998]

So happy to see you two tackling Littltfinger's role in this series.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thanks John...we've been holding on to all of this LF and Varys and Faceless and Gods stuff for so long we couldn't wait anymore to make one...plus we wanted to introduce the debt before continuing with Tywin because he is the largest debtor

[@AL-rh4ug]

I can see this Channel getting to 100k subs preeeeeetty fast. The Order of the Green Hand, Preston Jacobs and Radio Westeros are the holy trinity that make the wait for TWOW possible

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...that would really be something getting to 100k subs...sometimes we still can't believe we have as many as we do

[@AL-rh4ug]

The Order of the Green Hand is it possible that you may dive into "deeper Dorne" soon? ;)

[@DoubleO88]

Someone mentioned your theory about Ashara Dayne + Ned = Jon and Mance = Arthur Dayne to Preston Jacobs and RedTeamReview on their podcast together and Carmine rudely shut it down of course and Preston seemed open to it, he said he needed to see more info but Carmine shut it down before Preston could even make a more substantial comment on it. To be fair to them though it was VERY brief outline, I'm sure Carmine wouldn't rudely shut it down if he watched your videos and actually at least try to debate it. Do you guys watched other GOT youtubers? Be great if you both did a Q&A.

[@sheenydonut]

don't forget Secrets of the Citadel

[@haileyhart615]

DoubleO88 I noticed that too! I don't gaf what Carmine thinks, but I wish Preston would entertain the idea and delve a little deeper. it's a pretty cool theory that makes a lot more stuff make sense. I know OOTGH and PJ aren't really buddies tho....but they're both so damn smart I'd cream my pants if they put their heads together.

[@tlibrachick]

You guys have opened my eyes to some things i didn't notice while reading the books. There are so many "Devils" in the details I missed. I'm considering reading the books a second time and see what I find the next time around. Love your channel.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

you guys helped me get out of the depression when in 2019 I was sick a lot, and now with late nights at work and weekend work, wish I could give it back more somehow

[@DoReMi123acb]

that point you made about Petyr convincing Joffery to kill Ned is just brilliant, and actually makes sense.

[@ceilingfanenthusiast6041]

Maybe Cat was sayimg "Does Varys know about Bran/ what happened to Bran?" I have an explanation for the so soon line too. It was that she thought that Ser Roddick could have been caught by the golden cloaks snooping but then realised that he had instead been discovered by the high borns. I took it to mean as "I was discovered so soon? I thought I would be able to secretly investigate for a while"

[@christopherdupree2092]

The only theory I can come up with is that there was something in the letter about some plan that she did not want Ned to know about. That plan may have required her to beat Ned there, hence why she was in such a rush to leave as soon as she wakes up. And Littlefinger might have told us what she was going to ask by saying "except why you are here". So maybe she was going to ask "Does he know why I am here?"

[@jdotglenn]

This dude sounds like Howard Hamlin from Better Call Saul

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I agree with you!

[@emilyguerrero2557]

About Catelyn's question, I think it's just about Lysa's pregnancy. It would make sense, Petyr said Varys knew he'd ever been a friend to Lysa, then she's asking if Varys knew How close they were. Just my thought.

[@DoubleO88]

More more more more more MORE MORE MORE MORE!!!!! God you guys are awesome. Wasn't Catelyn only saying does he know about The Lannisters attacking Bran?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much....she didn't tell him about Bran's attack yet...this passage has literally given us fits for close to a year now

[@DoubleO88]

Shit I got the timing wrong now it's gonna give me fits LOL

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that's what that passage does to me too...every time I think I get a grasp of it, I realize 3 reasons why I'm wrong...the only thought I have that I cannot prove and makes sense given all the things she does is that she is working with LF because she wants to secure "a victory for the sake of her children" like she says in Catelyn II of AGOT, and wants to make sure that everyone who knows that Jon has a better claim to Winterfell than her children never gets a chance to share what they know...Family, Duty, Honor...Honor is last

[@yourdashingheroidol7909]

DoubleO88 Does he know about...us shaggin'?

[@saminator3563]

I think Richard is right. Unless he knows about Brans fall and George wants us to think hes meaning that. Otherwise what other information has been given at that time?

[@georgewood6211]

I’m going to leave this on a few videos. You guys a freaking great. Your so real. Like even when I disagree with a theory or interpretation you guys are so honest about everything and have so much content and respect for the communtiy, the book and the author. It’s absolutely amazing. Also unlike many other great channels you remain pure and haven’t sold out. I have never found such a great channel. Seriously. The world needs more creators like you. N+A=J I HOPE is correct.

[@Casmaniac]

Best GOT/ASOIAF channel right here, respect

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you

[@aryahavinfun5682]

I LOVE your wondrous analyses!!!! So much meaty food for thought in your videos, even when I don’t agree with some of your conclusions. I’m still a HUGE fan of your fabulous work! There are 2 little details about Petyr that nag at me, and maybe you may have some additional insights. The first, easy part, is that the mockingbird is a drab little bird that imitates the songs of other birds, and often, even sounds made by other environmental happenstance, like machine noises. So how does this relate to Petyr’s use of the mockingbird as his personal sigil? Is it that he’s just sly and amoral, and tells people what they want to hear, so no one takes him seriously as a threat? Is it that he literally mocks everyone? Or is it a tip to the reader that nothing he says can be trusted, under any circumstances? The second, trickier symbolism, is the name Baelish, as in “like Bael”, the famous Bard Ygritte and Mance keep referring to. So does this imply his theft of Sansa, the current winter rose of Winterfell? And will he try to reproduce with her? She’s angry with him, but I’m not sure she isn’t also beguiled by him, and that way leads to more trouble for sure. Anyway, keep up the fabulous work!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we have spent a lot of time looking at his mockingbird sigil...thank you so much

[@Steddy]

You guys are so great at narrative. When you talk I genuinely believe it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@Ponderingbooks]

1st: You guys rock! I love your videos and theories. I've been re-reading the series since I finished it the first time through in September. I'm really going back and analyzing interactions and wording and potential foreshadowing (which is why 5 months later, I'm only on AGOT Eddard IV!). 2nd: You have a possible typo in your video. When you are going over the Tyrion sequence from ACOK, on the card with "But do I dare touch him?" You cite it as AGOT Tyrion IV instead of ACOK Tyrion IV (like the rest). 3rd: I have come back to your Littlefinger series specifically after re-reading just the first portion of AGOT Eddard IV. Here are my ideas (most of which are based on the "secret" or "hidden" influence, visiting dreams, and the three-eyed crow theory you guys have in regards to LF): - "A fool I may be, Stark... yet I'm still here, while your brother has been moldering in his frozen grave for some 14 years now." What if Petyr had a hidden influence on Aerys?? I can't think of any connection he may have had to Aerys directly, but what if he was the reason for Brandon's demise? - How did Petyr know of Bran's condition (to send/persuade the Cat's Paw -- if he did)? Varys' little birds? His own whisperers? Dreams? How does this work for him? Is he solely in it for Catelyn? - "I could never refuse your wife anything." Did Petyr compel Bran to climb (so he could satisfy Catelyn's request/prayers for him to stay behind at Winterfell)? Did Petyr convince Jon to join the Night's Watch? - Catelyn slept for days after the attack on Bran and then came up with her idea to go to King's Landing. Did LF visit her in her dreams? Is that how she knew the Mockingbird was his sigil before she even got to King's Landing after not having seen him for roughly 14 years? Has he visited her frequently? Catelyn was also asleep before the gold cloaks came knocking at her door at the inn. Is that how he knew they'd arrived? Keep the videos coming! Thanks!

[@Ponderingbooks]

Also (watching your second Littlefinger video right now), is the reason the assassin didn't expect Catelyn to be in the room with Bran because Catelyn hadn't slept in the time she was with him??

[@Jockeylotforfun]

(Refer to 1st Catelyn sucks video) All the dialog is about hiding things, Luwins robes, Catelyn naked to appear not to be hiding things. Ned naked and unarmed, completely vulnerable to the scheme. I believe that Catelyn and or Luwin found out that Ned had married Ashara prior to Catelyn, thus making her children bastards and Jon the only true born Stark . The box could have been from littlefinger and Lysa, containing 2 messages. One about Ned's previous marriage and Jons parentage, the other about Jon Arryn. Or the info was on the note she quickly burned, maybe Lfs writing which Ned would later see as hand. The knock was clearly prearranged by luwin and Catelyn. "1st the victory must be won for her childrens sake ". I believe luwin and Catelyn conspired to get Ned out of winterfell in order to then send Jon to the wall where if it came out he was the only true born Stark that would be nullified. "We give up all titles and lands when we take our vows". Ned said "he hoped he would never find out what Catelyn would do to protect the children of her body". I also think that Catelyn expected to go with Ned to KL but accepted being left behind as a price paid for scheming against Ned. Catelyn clearly wanted to see LF without Ned, prior to his arrival, which also leads me to think that LF is conspiring with her, luwin and Lysa. Does Varys know.....About Ned, Ashara and JON?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

My Queen of Thorns!! YES!!! That is totally what I think too! I can't prove it though, which pains me. Whatever was in the contents of the letter Stoneheart burns is the answer to the (...). THE knock, followed by THE victory, with the lens which is an instrument to help us see (gag), followed by a nude stroll through the bedroom, and Ned being completely vulnerable having just had sex with her. Whatever it was she wanted to talk to him about was why she rushed to KL, in order to "beat Ned and the Lannisters" and also relates to the (...). Ugh the torture~ Lady Green Hand.

[@Jockeylotforfun]

Lady Green Hand, Its possible that Catelyn wasn't allowing herself to "participate " in the love making because she had the scheme with Luwin about to go down. I know! Not being able to prove what set Catelyn and Luwin in motion is the tough thing! I've never written about this because of the missing puzzle piece. Now Lysa, Catelyn, Ned and Luwin are dead. That leaves LF and Varys, and septer Lamore /Ashara . I hope that when and if Jons parentage is revealed we'll get that (...) that varys knows and he'll tell Jon directly. Thanks for the validation, feels so good not to be the only one to interpret the info as such! Bet You puff out that ice mist cause you're just way too cool! Happy Easter, best Regards!

[@Glockler]

You had previously mentioned that you thought she didn't want Ned to leave KL alive (maybe it was Lord Green Hand), if Ned was dead and Jon in The Watch there would no one to claim her marriage was illegitimate, do you think that's the reason?

[@Jockeylotforfun]

Glockler, That was someone else. I don't think she thought out the ramifications of her actions to that extent since she seemed surprised to be left at winterfell. Where it's going to get interesting is the "there must always be a stark in winterfell ". Jon is the only true born Stark. That's because the blood of a Stark will be required to wake the sleepers from the crypts of winterfell to fight the whitewalkers. I'll post a link to the video.

[@Glockler]

Yes, I was trying to respond directly to Lady Green Hand. I eagerly await your video.

[@kiak8116]

The timing is so impeccable!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we do what we can

[@lonestarwolfentertainment7184]

Imagine how much better Westeros would be if Baelish used his power and intellect for good.

[@joythornz]

Just can't stop loving your videos guys. It's like a series of lightbulbs being switch on one by one inside my head everytime a new video comes out. It's intelligent analysis like this that keeps me hooked to your channel. You don't dumb-down your viewers with half-baked no content videos like some ASOIAF/GoT youtubers. Well thought and well researched materials that indeed gives clarity to ASOIAF. Wishing your channel all the success. :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much! We really appreciate it.

[@joythornz]

I know both of you have a long list of topics lined up for future uploads. Any chance of a Danaerys character analysis and what's up with the lemon tree recollection?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think the Sealord of Braavos has a massive greenhouse/glass garden that could very easily have a red door and a lemon tree...he has to keep all those tropical animals he is fond of collecting alive somehow, and it also seems the most likely place exiled royalty would stay while in Braavos

[@lmeasley1262]

I believe that Rob does not belong to Ned and that he belongs to Brandon and little fingers knows this.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

How does Catelyn remembering the night she and Ned made Robb fit into that theory?

[@lmeasley1262]

The Order of the Green Hand , she is not remembering Ned. When she describes Rob, she is describing Brendon his brother. Her house words or family honor and something. But she is so fixed on Jon being a basturd, that it makes believe that it is Rob that she worries so much about. Because he belongs to Ned's brother. And I'm sure that Liza told little finger of the pregnancy. And I'm sure that little finger would know that she had gotten pregnant too.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

while watching Robb with his army, she thinks of the night that she and Ned made a King together

[@isaacmartinez7557]

Doesn't matter now... Dude, bastard or not, is ded lol

[@Delete240]

@@lmeasley1262 impossible, Brandon dies before Robb was conceived. We know that Robb was conceived on Ned and Cat’s wedding night, which only occurred after Brandon and Lord Rickard were burned alive. So no, Robb definitely is Ned’s son.

[@tjpawz_6412]

The answer is in the passage itself, "Lord Varys knows everything, except why you are here" she was worried Varys and by extension anyone else in the castle knew why she was there. She attempted to sneak into kings landing and attempted to stay hidden until she went to get ned. The whole reason she went to kings landing is because she believed the lannisters were responsible for Brans accident (after she found the blonde hair) and she was going to tell Ned the lannisters attempted to kill Bran because she thinks he saw something (which we all know he did) It's not a big conspiracy, she just didn't want her plan revealed and was understandablely concerned that varys knew because he may tell the king before Cait got a chance to speak to Ned.

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

finding the blonde hair is not in the books

[@Amateur_Pianist_472]

So Ned just expected to effortlessly depose the king and arrest cerci on the accusation of incest. He truly was naive.

[@210SAi]

If you recall Ned did this while Robert was out hunting. He didn’t know Robert would die there.

[@Amateur_Pianist_472]

O G he confronted cerci in the great hall in front of everyone when Joffrey was named the new king.

[@210SAi]

Wondering Spirit that wasn’t the first time he did so.

[@EverteFarnell]

Love this channel! It's like reading/watching ASOIF all over again, only with all this new cool underlying info. Awesome job y'all! I'm happy to support you guys on Patreon, hope others from here do as well. (Hint hint my fellow fans! ;-)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much....and thank you for your support on Patreon...we really appreciate it

[@tochishow]

i deem it likely in all retrospects she was asking does varys know about that scar you carry from brandon stark

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

hahaha...that must be it

[@PBRStreetgang]

Another solid video, I'm glad you're tackling Littlefinger. When I first re-read Game of Thrones, the suspiciousness of Catelyn arriving in King's Landing and the "So soon?" question did strike me as odd. Now that I've watched your "Why Catelyn Sucks" series it sticks out like a sore thumb. I really want to know WHAT she was up to with the King's Landing players so soon in the series. The letter from Lysa, Bran and the dagger, Maester Luwin, "THE Knock", "So Soon?" - the amount of scheming is definitely over 9000. She is obviously part of some sort of covert plot which she is hiding from Ned. I don't know what it means yet, but getting rid of Jon (and possibly Ned) is probably at the heart of it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that's what we think too but we can't prove it...I think its all about "the victory for the sake of her children"...getting Jon to the wall and eliminating the only person she thinks knows the truth (Ned) would flow perfectly into the Tully words being Family first (victory for her children) and honor last (doesn't care what she has to do to get it done)

[@PBRStreetgang]

Yeah, it's a tough one to prove. I always have to remind myself there are still two more books to go, so trying to prove anything in the middle of the story will be hard. We can at least see the machinations of some Tully treason unfolding / that has already unfolded. The Blackfish is one of my favorite characters and I can see how he would detest his brother forcing Ned to marry Cat, and whatever the hell Cat she has been up to (if he knew). Honor comes last; so very true.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we've been trying to prove it for the better part of a year now, and when we first tried telling people that we thought she was evil it almost destroyed our channel...the level of hate we got was 100x worse than when we made N+A=J, and our viewership all but disappeared...people didn't exactly take kindly to our declaration that if you think R+L=J is true, you haven't been paying attention, but people absolutely flipped on us when we said she might be one of the worst people ever

[@PBRStreetgang]

The first video I saw from you guys was the first installment of "Why Catelyn Sucks". It popped up in the sidebar, and am I ever so glad I watched that and found your channel. It solidified some of the suspicions I had but couldn't put my finger on. That, plus the N+A=J videos were all I had to see and I had instant respect and love, thus binge-watching all your videos and noticing things I never would have connected. The Wars to Come series is absolutely brilliant, especially the video on Kings' Blood. I always enjoy Preston's videos, I was subbed to him when his channel was below 2K as well. He's flirted with some comparable theories (B+A=J) and I appreciated that he took the same abuse you did, mainly from show-only people. (I wonder how can people love the show and NOT want to read the books? Oh, and also being complete ASSES in the comments; YT brings out the absolute worst in humanity sometimes.) Bottom line - There isn't a single video you guys have done that isn't backed up by the text, is dense as hell, and packed with an insane amount of info. Fingers crossed WoW gets published some time this year, there will be LOTS to discuss.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...the weirdest part about how much people hated that first Why Catelyn Sucks video, is that people kept watching it...up until two weeks ago it was our most watched video...I can't wait for TWOW to come out...the lack of it being out is actually how we became theorists because we lack the ability to wait for George to tell us the answers, so we started trying to figure it out ourselves...at this point now, we're dying to know how much of the story we were right about, although I wouldn't mind having a few more months to get a few more we've been holding on to for a while now out before it comes out...I was really hoping it would be out before the show and the "real purpose" of this season's delay was to allow him to get the book out first so they could try to get back somewhere near where his story is, but with each passing week that hope has dwindled to a pipe-dream...we were talking about it the other day and we don't even know what we should do when we do get our hands on it...we feel like we are both going to need to take at least a week off so we can get it read at least once, but I wouldn't even want to make any theory videos on it until we've read it twice, and even then, we probably would have still missed half the important information he put in there

[@kellylausman259]

OMGOSH! I've been waiting for another one of your videos! I've even rewatched several of them a second time while checking back. You are my favorite channel. All your theories are alway so well thought out and researched. This gives me so much more to think about with Lord Baelish. I would love to see your take on the Isle of Faces, the Green Men and Howland Reed!!! Thank you for what you do!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much....we are going to get into the Isle of Faces and the Green Men and Howland when we return to our wars to come series

[@cliffgaither]

"Arrow-swift". What a great description of Littlefinger !

[@Bamibalgenieter12]

My presumtion on what Catelyn was about to ask would be about if varys knows about how Littlefinger (presumably) took Cat's maidenhood. I know in the video it's explained that littlefinger was drunk and it was actually Lysa, yet I'm on my third re-read, and i've never heard this one (currently finishing A Clash Of Kings). Can someone quote me the passage(s) where this is explained? N.B.: I do not deny this wasn't the case, and I found it strange that Littlefinger claimed this, yet Cat seemed to never acknowledge it, I always thought it was Cat who countiously put it away.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

In the AWOIAF app it states that Littlefinger took Lysa's maidenhead and called out Catelyn's name, and to this day remains convinced that it was Catelyn who he had sex with that night. In an interview, George also indicated this. :) But no it is not explicitly stated anywhere, and given Catelyn's reaction when Tyrion tells her that he said this, I believe the story that it was really Lysa. Its super confusing though because its a weird love triangle thing, and then when you add in Brandon, Ned, Ashara, Jon Arryn, its a complete cluster fu(k. haha

[@Bamibalgenieter12]

Well, we all know George loves his love-triangles (where one party is always the unloved one), so this doesn't come as a suprise. thanks for claryfying, i haven't read TWOIAF, so that would explain why i haven't caught that bit, and after writing this comment i started searching for the answer myself and came across a (I believe) AFFC chapter where Lysa expresses (to I believe sansa (because who else)) that she felt pety for petyr when he got so drunk with edmure that she 'pleased' him. So that was a clear-header for me. Yet that leaves me empty handed on what Catelyn and Petyr were discussing in ACOK though. Anyway, love the content, even though it may conflict with what other theorists might think. I think it's important we all have our own ways of interpretating what the author meant in his writings in ASOIAF and beyond.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

a lot of the information we use is in TWOIAF app, which is all the stuff like character profiles, city and town profiles, house profiles, interactive maps, creature descriptions, religions, etc that he couldn't fit into the book...its the most worthwhile $5 I've spent in a really long time...in many ways, its even better than TWOIAF book

[@westcoastweird455]

Your videos are top notch! I look forward to them every time KZbin sends me notifications, you've made me question theories I had rock solid in my brain...love anyone that can challenge my core westerosi beliefs❤️🙌

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Jenna-Leigh Kirby thank you!!!

[@joshualindquist9305]

The larger points to the story hide in plain sight. Words the "others" "no one" and monuments/reminders of the past like the crypts, the wall and even the hot springs residing under winterfell a world before the seven and immoral kings with vassals that blindly follow like white walkers. Little Finger is both an other and no one. If you understand that you, yourself are nobody but the somebodies have the same flaws as the nobodies then you can use that knowledge to become anyone. Changing your face depending on what move your playing against what player. His outsider, unknown status allows him to play without being noticed and if you are an invisible piece on a board and know more rules and strategy then those who are also playing, then you have a clear advantage. His one weakness is following his dick, first with Liza, which he learned from, but now Sansa. He let her know his motives, which could kill him. Him and Varys are very similar, they understand the game, they are outsiders and never share their motives. Only difference is that Varys doesn't have his dick. A dick is what probably led to a lot of the immoral actions that both Varys and Littlefinger prey on. It almost makes him seem pure because he does not have that one overwhelming urge that all humans have, which is to fuck and fuck people over by doing so. If you act immorally, against societal norms, you leave yourself and your status vulnerable to harm. Also, what's under ground at a lot of important locations? Like Winterfell, The Vale, Kings Landing, Casterly Rock, the house of black and white, the Weirwood where the 3 eyed Raven was? They all represent each of their residents, who they are, how they'll end up and what they believe in. Foundations built upon corrupted truths will ultimately crumble. I think the one spot of what humanity should be like in this fiction is Winterfell. They keep their dead in Crypts to remind themselves of the past. The past is easily forgotten and replaced if there are no reminders. There are older truths to the world that worked just fine before religion came around to divide and seclude the OTHERS. What happened to all those poor souls that perished before the seven was even concocted as a way to save them? The basic premis of most religions are well intentioned as a way to police society, but it's people who corrupt it over time as it is used as another rule in the game, providing rules to break and leverage for those who know how to play. The Others, the Wights I believe are just an extremely corrupted version of those who are secluded from society, misunderstood like the wildlings or the children. Eventually, malice will grow and lead to a reaction, just as hate grows in an individual, like Tyrion and if left to fester you end up acting upon your rage, in this case killing those who treated as an outcast, a misunderstood monster that didn't do anything except being born to a person who understands power and society in its most brutal and corrupt form. Littlefinger looks at the entirety of Westeros this way, with hatred from his experiences as a youth. Society created Littlefinger, maybe he should be king of the ashes.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That was very well said

[@Lady_Chloe99]

Ive been going back and rewatching your videos....because yours make the most sense, along with Preston Jacobs. I don’t know if you’ll end up being spot on in everything but if not....I’ve thoroughly enjoyed your analysis!

[@EPYHDA1]

""Does Varys know [what Lysa thinks of who is responsible for her husband's death]?" Petyr needed to interrupt her, as it would indicate that Stark's anti-Lannister prejudice was activated. I still think that the dagger "investigation" was not done so much for Stoneheart-in-waiting, but for gauging Varys reaction - there is no way Varys did not know who won the dagger, and his lack of contradiction showed Baelish that Varys had plans of his own for creating a conflict in Westeros

[@AmberGraves80]

I guess I assumed she was talking about whether Varys knew about Bran and the attempt in his life, the reason thst Cat came to King's Landing. And Littlefinger, guessing her meaning, answered her.

[@jason32742]

Does varys know about robb her eldest son. A theory circled around some time ago that robb not jon was the bastard of winterfell Thats what i think anyways

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Hey Dono! yea I heard that too. I think that it relates to the contents of the letter she burned.

[@arawn1061]

Jason . Donoghue honestly thats total BS

[@frankyvielle2699]

Ned has this huge sword to Little Fingers small dagger, and he wonders why Cat loves Ned more than him. lol

[@madarauchiha-xx5gp]

My friend yesterday told me he didnt like game of thrones. Unfortunately he got hit by a bus today. I also lost my bus driving licence. today.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that's hilarious

[@krombopulost4699]

you dont need to be friends with that kinds of people. they are not ppl.

[@anuragk7184]

madara uchiha Three totally non related events.

[@cop5144]

Game of thrones is kinda shit. If we're talking about the show. A Song of Ice and Fire is brilliant. HBO ruined that shit.

[@anuragk7184]

Co p Well it was good till mid season 5 but later they just took a weird turn.

[@auroramartell]

I think Cat wanted to ask if Varys knew about the baby Lysa had with Littlefinger (I think it's a bit impossible that the two sisters didn't talk about this, so it's a possible idea).

[@christopherbarnett9459]

Great Video as always!! Need more Catelyn Sucks videos!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Christopher Barnett coming next week :-)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much...we want to figure out that passage we appealed to our viewers to help us with before we move forward with Catelyn

[@dalehendrick8584]

First off, love your videos! Second, I think Jon Arryn tells Lysa about Ned and Jon and Ashara Dayne. Lisa tells Petyr. Petyr uses this to set his plans into action. The message in the box tells Cat. This is all Peter's revenge on Cat. He is also just a genius so is playing it all into his gain. WHILE the lady who refused him and the house that scorned him suffer. All while he gains control over the Vale and secure Sweetrobin (Petyr's son) as his tool for power.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think Jon Arryn likely knew about Ned and Ashara, but I have a hard time believing that a man as accomplished as Jon Arryn was would trust his clearly deranged wife with such a secret...I do think LF told her

[@QueenDaenerysTargaryen]

Is Catelyn aliened with Petyr? To bad Little Fingers ending in the show was so pathetic. Seems a lot more could have come from that storyline.

[@H.Ash9]

You guys get better and better. Looking forward to the next one.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much!

[@raswartz]

I got the impression that when Catelyn was about to ask, "Does Varys know about... " it: 1) Must be something she and Littlefinger both know 2) Must be something that is not widely known 3) Must be something about Lysa 4) Must be something that Littlefinger does not like talking about The duel was fairly public knowledge, so we can rule that out. Nor was it really about Lysa per se. It could be that she was about to say "Robert", if he is actually Littlefinger's bastard. Cat could know this if Lysa told her in one of her "secret" letters -- maybe even the one she burned at Winterfell. This is definitely not widely known and of course it is about Lysa. Littlefinger wouldn't want her to talk about it because he knows there are little birds listening everywhere while Cat is new to King's Landing and was on the verge of blurting out one of his biggest secrets. The tansy tea incident doesn't seem like something that Cat would bring up casually. Nor would it be relevant to the current situation in King's Landing.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That passage has given us fits for close to a year now...Cat doesn't know about the Tansy Tea incident because when her father was dying he begins talking in his fever state and she thought it was a girl he was sleeping with...I feel like it is something that either only LF and her know or maybe Lysa knows as well...it could be sweetrobin's paternity, but that seems to be something that Cat doesn't know either because when she meets him she never thinks about it...this is the first time we feel defeated when trying to figure something out so we decided to appeal to the masses to see if someone who watches our videos could at the very least give us something we haven't thought of yet...thank you for sharing your thoughts...I'm going to go back over it again once I get enough responses...we're creating a doc with everyone's thoughts on the topic and we're going to include a shout out to whoever gives us the idea that gets us to the "break through" in our next Catelyn video

[@raswartz]

Also, you have to remember that Catelyn and Littlefinger may have had different ideas about what she was going to say next. After all, Littlefinger seems to genuinely believe that he is the one who took Catelyn's virginity. She might have been about to say something more innocent about growing up at Riverrun, while Littlefinger might have thought she was going to refer to "her" deflowering.

[@Ladyblanche85]

I agree that they might have had different ideas about what she was going to ask. I have just started reading the books, so I can only refer to what I heard is supposed to be in there. Afaik LF kind of brags from time to time about deflowering both of the Tully sisters. So Varys ofc would have heard about it, while Catelyn might be unaware of that, since she wasn't there to hear about the bragging. But I doubt that this is what either of Cat or LF was thinking about here. Might be about Sweetrobin's paternity, but I'm not too convinced of that one either. Tho it sounds way more likely than Cat's supposed deflowering.

[@arawn1061]

The Order of the Green Hand it is most likely "does varys know about Jons death?"

[@JG-oi5gg]

"Does Varys know about...?" Catelyn is going to ask if Varys knows that Lysa gave Littlefinger her maidenhead and might have secretly born him Sweet Robin. The first part was a family scandal of which Catelyn is aware. The second part is something Lysa might well have confided in her sister; alternately, it is something Catelyn might have deduced from her long knowledge of her sister's instability, Petyr's deviousness, and Jon Arryn's weakness. Certainly if Arryn was impotent Lysa would have confided this to Catelyn, not realizing it is contradicted by the birth of Sweet Robin. This is what Catelyn is about to ask. But Littlefinger still believes Lys's maidenhead was Catelyn's, that they share a dangerous secret, and so he immediately thinks this is what she is about to ask. This is a function of his justifiable arrogance with regard to predicting the intentions of others, as well as his sense of self preservation: Littlefinger knows Varys will have little birds listening to their conversation and he does not want these facts revealed, because he does not know what Varys does and does not know. That's my take on it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I’d consider that possible if Catelyn knew Lysa even liked Littlefinger, but Catelyn makes it clear that she’s so self centered that she was completely oblivious to that fact

[@thisguy8106]

im at work, and now I'm like...20 min bathroom break!!!!!! yay

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

sometimes 20 minute bathroom breaks are necessary ;)

[@thisguy8106]

The Order of the Green Hand Especially for A Green Hand video!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I would tend to agree with that

[@blackeyedlily]

To answer your question about what Caitlyn could have been asking when cut off by Littlefinger, I wondered, since he was just pointing out how Varys knew he was a good friend to House Tully and close to Lysa, could she have been trying to ask if Varys knew of his duel with Brandon. This was something that he did not like talking about, which would have explained him cutting her off. Plus it would put the close friendship with House Tully in a different light if Varys knew the story. From what is said in other places it doesn't seem that Caitlyn has had contact with him since that time, so it might be logical that she brought it up.

[@tulkas42o22]

even though ned does not know how to play the game of thrones he should have known better. by a military and lordly stand point it is almost textbook to keep him in doubt, in fact keep him under surveillance. this is what you would do in camp to someone who is not trusted. i think that if peter was in his cups that night, other young ones were too. perhaps little finger had them both that night. sometime while breaking their fast that morning, gushing lysa told her story while regretful cat kept quite. this may be why little finger is this convinced. he remembers sweet cat, while later drunk and no memory lysa seduces him while he's still game......... sweet Robin , I'm leaning 80%-20% he's little fingers. love you two!!!......winds of winter please george

[@scottie16976]

the littlefinger plot has become one of my favourites the sansa chapter when he takes her to the fingers he mentions"a great lords seat ought to have a name wouldnt you agree? Winterfell,the Eyrie,Riverrun those are CASTLES.lord of Harrenhall now that has a sweet ring to it." i think these four things are what he wants (i dont know why yet but im looking into it)so hes got 2 of the things he mentioned,the Eyrie and hes lord of Harrenhall. so in a later chapter when hes helping sansa build the snow castle(winterfell) stuck out to me after watching your video.Sansa is struggling to build the bridge and he shows her how to do it using a stick then he goes on to help her make a roof for the glass gardens. the whole scene of him gathering the twigs and then stepping over both walls with one long step got my attention and the way he makes the lattice made me think about what you said about the complex web of tranactions.he uses the twigs peels them crosses them and uses the bark to tie them together. "his hands were deft and sure,and before long he had a crisscrossing lattice work of twigs,very like the one that roofed the glass gardens at winterfell" then he says" We will need to IMAGINE the glass to be sure" the whole scene seems to be how he works his works his magic as master of coin.then he kisses Sansa. i think sansa could get him winterfell and riverrun.i think he wants to prove(to himself mostly) that everyone who wronged him was wrong. Brandon stark)Winterfell) Hoster Tully(Rriverrun) lord of Harrenhall gave him a title so he could marry lysa (Pack the snow around a twig- give it strength enough to stand) and the Eyrie gives him his army. as i always say like Jon snow i know nothing but your videos as always make me look at the story from a different angle(the greensight) so thank you

[@5TailFox]

"Littlefinger & the Batshit Sisters" 😅🤣

[@albertesteva9684]

I have never clicked on a video so fast or be so happy to do it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you! :) that is awesome.

[@haymaker710]

firsties

[@SteveM000100]

First of the fist men lol

[@tracywhitlock5395]

happy Tuesday to us. Thanks for another amazing video guys!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you Tracy

[@TheGrogin13]

Ok I have watched a few of your videos, and you two have become a favorite, I'm glad I checked you out. Definitely recommending you to my other G.O.T. friends.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

awesome.! thank you so much. :D

[@Maibuwolf]

I have been blazing through your recommended watching order playlist and when i saw a littlefinger video lurking ahead a seriously had to skip to it cause i love the character. I would have loved a more in depth look at his character but since you guys said you plan on doing more i assume this was just more of a setting the stage kind of video. Seems to be how you guys do things when you have multiple videos on a topic. The first one seems more simplistic and setting some groundwork for future videos on the topic. Cant wait for more littlefinger content!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

we mostly did this video to introduce the debt so we could expand on it in the finally of the Tywin series

[@curtisnucmed]

Thanks again for all the great work! Another thought provoking series of videos, as usual. I pledge my loyalty to the order of the green hand and through them, the realm.

[@craig8612]

I have a partial theory based on your past videos. Remember that Catelyn destroyed the note she received from Lysa, which was written at Littlefinger's direction. Catelyn didn't want Ned to see the note. But the part of the note that we know about--the lie that the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn--Catelyn relayed to Ned faithfully. Whatever else was in the note is surely connected to the question Catelyn is about to ask Petyr.

[@craig8612]

I doubt this is some ancient history between Cat and LF. Why would It matter if Varys knew that? I think it's a current plot that they share that Ned would not approve of. LF helps Ned find out the truth about Cersei's children. LF is helping Ned until Ned orders the Mountain killed and Tywin called to court. Maybe the original plan, at least to Catelyn, is to put Ned on the throne after the blonde kids are killed by Robert.

[@craig8612]

Great video on LF but I'm really looking forward to the next chapter on Tywin.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...I think that both of LF's notes that she burned before anyone could see them contained similar information (something about Ned and Ashara in the first one, and N+A=J in the second)...she then agreed to help LF get what he wanted if helped her achieve "a victory for the sake of her children" by eliminating those who might know that Jon has a better claim to Winterfell than her children...it totally fits into Family, Duty, Honor being the Tully words...Family first (victory for her children), Honor last (don't care what I have to do to get it done)

[@mikemercer5940]

Another wonderful vid. Love the text you put in the backgrounds. Twincest had me dyin. Lol Never heard that one before.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you...there aren't a lot of opportunities to use the word twincest in a conversation

[@gershmuch9044]

And they keep getting better !!!

[@aaronslade9301]

I think you're right about they're being more to the unfinished line other than why she is in King's Landing, if only because Catelyn Never questions why news of her arrival wasn't brought to Ned either before or after little finger was made aware. Catelyn is playing a game. Also it's worth noting that earlier in the same chapter, Catelyn refers to the wounds and pain in her hands as "her scourge." Scourge literally means an instrument of punishment. Catelyn feels she deserves to be punished for something, and what happened to her hands was, in her view, karma coming back to bite her for whatever she had done. my only theory is what you touch on in your "Why Catelyn Sucks" series. Question: Lysa wrote the letter to Catelyn in their secret language they'd developed as children. Do you think Little Finger would also be familiar with their secret language? Because honestly, concealing a letter along with the clue of a glass lens from Myr sounds more like Little Finger's thinking than it does Lysa's. Lysa knew about the letter, and later she claimed to have sent it, but only because she couldn't let her sister know that she'd been the one to poison Jon Arryn. If the letter was sent by Little finger, perhaps whatever Catelyn worries about Varys knowing was something in the letter. Also, Little Finger said that "Varys knows everything..." except why Catelyn was in King's Landing. So whatever it was she was asking about, Varys knows about it too. Little Finger Confirmed it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Scourge...wow, excellent point...we missed that...thank you...we think she was going to ask about the contents of the letter that she burned as well...I think it is odd that LF is known to have sent her two letters and she burned both of them before anyone else could see what they said

[@aaronslade9301]

I was thinking the same thing. I want to believe that Cat didn't burn the first letter without reading it, but we learn about it in Cat's point of view chapter, and we're given no reason to think that she's lying. I have a lot of theories about what Cat might be up to, but all my theories seemed to be disproved by the fact that Catelyn BELIEVED what was in Lysa's letter. Again, her point of view suggests as much.

[@aaronslade9301]

Do you think Cat was planning to kill Jon Snow? After Bran woke up, Jon visited Bran's bedside before leaving for the wall, and Catelyn tells him, "It should have been you." Later in the story, in A Storm of Swords i believe, Catelyn confesses that the gods are punishing her for not loving a motherless child. By sending Ned to King's Landing, Catelyn would have had more control over Winterfell and Jon's fate. But when Jon elects to go to the wall, there's no more need to kill him. If Cat was plotting with Maester Llewyn, it would also explain why Llewyn delivers the news of Jon Snow wanting to join the Watch, instead of Benjen Stark.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think Cat would have killed him without a second thought if she didn't believe in her heart that Ned would execute her for his murder...in terms of burning the first letter, she does think about her burning it before she read it, which makes it difficult to doubt that she really did...if she said it to someone I wouldn't believe her for a second, but she thought it so it is likely true...the second letter, we know she read and we know she burned it before Ned could see it and even if Lysa wrote it, she isn't smart enough to think of the delivery method, so LF is likely the one who sent it, and could easily have added a P.S. to it

[@aaronslade9301]

Thanks for the response. Looking forward to your next video.

[@sbwilkinson60]

Great video keep them coming. I am sure that Catelyn knew soon after she got to Kings Landing that Littlefinger would seek her out but she didn't think it would be in the first hours after she arrived. I am not sure exactly what she was going to ask but I thought when I read it that it was if he knew about the attempt on Brans life.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That is what I thought at first as well, but she hadn't even brought it up yet, so how would LF know the answer, and why would she think he knew the answer...that passage has literally been driving both of us crazy for almost a year now

[@sbwilkinson60]

Well I am looking forward to the follow up videos. I can't wait for him to die. I am not sure who I want to kill him but I would rather see him die almost more than Cersei.

[@motorcitymangababe]

Ok- heres my inkling of an idea. Preston Jacobs has a pretty convincing theory on why littlefinger is obsessed with sansa- i buy into that, but im also thinking that catlyn might be aware of his plans for sansa (if she wants sansa to be queen of westeros why not the queen of beauty and subject of prophecy?) I also think in deep veek also has a good point with littlefingers role in roberts rebellion- but i also think that idea blends well with the tullies manipulating the starks

[@TheGrogin13]

I truly enjoy the in-depth insight of these characters. Well done.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you!

[@Sofakingittt]

Great video, Petyr one of my favorite characters in the book. can't wait to hear your theories on him. The rest of your videos got me going back to the books again. Off topic, i just finished ACOK and noticed for the first time Summer saw a great winged snake. Your thoughts?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you...I'm going to hold my thoughts on the winged snake because we are going to do a video about it

[@MrHurch]

I wake up and The Order of the Green Hand has a new video? Gonna be a good day :) :) :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+MrHurch yay! Hope you enjoy!

[@ashantihamilton5037]

I believe Catelyn saying "so soon " was more about someone spoting her and Ser Rodrik rather than Littlefinger summoning her.

[@luke6612]

Thank you for pointing that out. I missed the first time through where the guard called him m'lord Littlefinger. Obviously, Littlefinger had the power to summon her. But any random guard doing as he was requested by a member of the small council would have called him Lord Baelish, not Littlefinger. That little bit definitely shows the guard's loyalties.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I missed that until I was making the second Catelyn video and wanted to use that ... question in it but couldn't figure out what it meant...but you're absolutely right that the guy calling him Littlefinger definitely denotes a certain familiarity that is very difficult to pick up on when you read it the first time because that is the first scene we get in KL

[@chakka3000]

Awesome! A Littlefinger vid in this series! I was hoping you guys would post a new video soon.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Yes sorry! We have ADD and get writers block and then just have to change gears, and then loop back to the other ones. We are going to try and release videos every Mon or Tues am from here on out, but next week there will definitely be more than one video as I am on spring break. :)

[@sinasaberi1026]

That line that Joffrey says to Tywin about a king being bold and stuff... Could it be that littlefinger said it to him?? Before killing Ned Stark? A king should show his power. Thats why Joffrey killed Ned. That's why nobody knows who told him that. Also if you think about it, Joffrey died soon after saying those words out loud. And people who wanted to know who taught him those stupid words. Really interesting🤔

[@derekreilly433]

Great timing, I need something to listen to at work. Thank you

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

+Derek Reilly lol!

[@husher5142]

@16:18 it's more devious than just that, since he was borrowing from the Lannisters. When Robert defaulted, it would also mean the crown could not repay the Lannisters . Then with the planned war, between the Lannisters and the Sarks it would seal the deal for bankrupting the Lannisters taking down both the crown and both houses.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We're going to address that further in the next Tywin video...and the Lannisters are far from being bankrupt...that is a strange change they made in the show, but Casterly Rock is still pumping out gold like it always did before...plus, if they ever needed money, the could go to Castermire, drain it and start mining the gold and silver there, and their port makes them as much money as their mines do as well

[@Laura-cp6if]

❤️ you guys, new favorite ASOIAF channel. Excellent content and I love that you explore different ideas to others, keep up the great work!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much! We will ❤️

[@madmax1717]

The master of Chaos.. he's like Butters from South Park - Professor Chaos!

[@prof.cecilycogsworth3204]

I'm looking forward to the second part of this!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thanks so much! i love littlefinger so that should be coming out soon!

[@newperve]

LF's buy assets with Royal debt scheme will be disastrous for the realm if instability hits the business climate. Since all his plans depend on instability he clearly wants the realm insolvent.

[@jimboy3625]

Ah this was an unexpected surprise! I've really enjoyed this littlefinger video more than I thought I would. Such an interesting character. I'm going to have to really think about what Cat was going to ask if Varys knew about. Naturally I'm lead to think that his plans to manipulate Lysa to remove Jon Arryn somehow involved Cat but I've not figured out anything substantive as to how or even why but there's a tickling in the back of my mind working on something. Thanks for another great video!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you Jim!! Yes it's a mystery!

[@amandamonacoschaub8101]

I love these series videos! You're making me want to see Varys after this one 😊

[@StrongLIfePower]

GOT Foreshadows show Lord Baelish will return in 2021 (2.14.21) - Wed Sansa Stark - Legitimize Jon Snow - Lord Stark (Warden of the North) and Rule the 7 KIngdoms of Westeros...

[@themediocremaester7292]

The Order delivers yet another brilliant character analysis. My knowledge on House histories is fairly limited, I'll confess. I do wonder though, what relation your order has with the Green Hand. By my records, Garth Greenhand's last direct Gardener descendant, Mern IX, perished upon the field of fire, bested by Targeryan dragon flame. I take it that your order would rather not see another Targeryan rise to prominence?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I see there being a very big difference between wars for political power and titles in the series and wars such as the one that is coming down the pike for life itself...the war where King Mern Gardener died with almost all the knights of the order was one for titles, power and territory...I think the order serves a "higher purpose" that is above politics...we also don't see the Targaryen's significance as being much more than they were the Valyrian family that survived with their dragons...they were no more than petty lords in Valyria...500 years ago if you asked the Valyrian nobility about the Targaryens, 85% of them would say "who?"

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

and Thank you

[@lathumpipe]

I just recently found your videos, but holy lord, they are incredibly insightful and I believe everything both of you say! I was a wolf but you made me a sheep....and I thank you for it.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much! We are glad you enjoy them, and welcome. :D

[@Bluemilk92]

These are so fun I'm actually watching them again, after having watched these a day ago. I never do that!

[@Amaterasu_Rivers]

I've never liked/always suspected Catelyn. If you ask me, she has been in on Petyr's schemes since he got to King's Landing. She wanted to go south, get her kids in court, and an opportunity to get Jon away. As you guys said, she and Lysa's letter is highly suspect. How better to do that than to join in a conspiracy to make her husband The Hand along with her sister and the boy who'd risk his life for her? He'd probably been communicating with her and turning her against Ned since he'd come back with Jon.

[@ClintSprayberry]

Yaas! This is going to be interesting! Can't wait to see ya'lls take on Little Finger 😆

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thanks Clint...hope you enjoyed

[@t.h.2906]

There is so much reading behind the lines in got. Martin has all the pieces of the puzzle laid out before us, but we are the ones that gotta put it together. I love his style of writing because it encourages re-reads and detective work. Another tip when figuring out the enigmatic writing is Martin usually gives the answer before the question is even revealed. Makes me brain hurt.

[@jacobenke7936]

How does Cat forget about Lysa's miscarriage, or not know who got her pregnant later in life? That's the question we need to ask ourselves.