Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | Mysteries, Myths and Motives | What is the Song of Ice and Fire?

[@cardwitch91]

Reminds me once again of one of the more red-alert throwaway moments in ASOS, when Bran questions how Meera can love mountains while also hating them. *"Why can't it be both?" Meera reached up and pinched his nose. "Because they're different," he insisted. "Like night and day, or ice and fire." "If ice can burn," said Jojen in his solemn voice, "then love and hate can mate. Mountain or marsh, it makes no matter. The land is one." "One," his sister agreed, "but over wrinkled."* I feel the answer lies here. The need for balance is about accepting both at the same time.

[@michaelwatson8890]

In the books I don't think Euron would be satisfied with the Iron Throne I think he's got ambitions of becoming a Bloodstone Emperor type figure

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Michael Watson Definitely. He wants it all at all costs...aka his ego is gonna get him got when he least expects...

[@arawn1061]

Michael Watson there is a theory that the comet in Agot was yet a new bloodstone. According to the directions that characters describe the comet going in, it is theoriesed that, in Clash, the comet finally struck in the ruins of Valyria. This is important becuse of One thing. Who is it we know were in Valyria during Clash? Euron Greyjoy. So the theory goes that Eurons black, mad Eye is actually a part of The comet. From how Aeron describes it in the Forsaken, it seems possible.

[@anuragk7184]

GoT: Jon is the son of Rhaegar and Lynna and is the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne!!! Order of the Green Hand: Hold my beer.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Hahahahaha that's amazing

[@jamestaylor4511]

Anurag K thats the show..not the books

[@nexis1293]

Anurag K Jon is about as legitimate as i am Samuel L Jackson in person

[@FraJa1980]

Lemme see yo wallet! Does it say "bad mother*cker?

[@vikkidonn]

As a side note Jon being the heir in the show isn't really true. Rhegar was never crowned, and Jon was a secret and not thought of, the crown went to viserys then to Dany for all intensive purposes. They would have to prove it to the people. who as far as shown in the show shouldn't believe anything bran says. They don't even know him or what a three eyed Raven is. And it meant nothing anyway.

[@Glockler]

"lying piece of shit Andals...", classic!

[@Altrantis]

I always find interesting how they are the least epic of all peoples in the story. Their religion shows no sign of veracity, unlike literally every single other religion, all their accomplishments are actually first men or Targaryens, and most importantly, they don't actually have anyone epic to their name, no amazingly awesome kings of old, or heroes of legend... nothing.

[@FraJa1980]

Artis Arryn is pretty epic tho'.... for an Andal that is.

[@bradwolf07]

The Old Ghis Empire and the Bloodstone Empire being the same makes so much sense. I'm definitely on board with this theory

[@realeyesrealisereallies8607]

This is hands down the best ASOIF youtube channel.

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Dennis Rodriguez Agreed! I have a split decision between 3 Channels (which I won't name the other 2 because my #2 & so forth ranked channels..don't wanna diss anyone!)... Either way! Agreed! Amazing channel - I love it! - TRV🔥

[@daddyleon]

*+Dennis Rodriguez* "hands down"? Is that a pun? :)

[@realeyesrealisereallies8607]

daddyleon its just a figure of speech, meaning the best. I love this channel because its based on the books and not the show.

[@daddyleon]

Yes, I know it's a figure of speech, but the sigil they sport: the green hand, might've made it a pun as well ;) You know that one with the words: true to our word.

[@realeyesrealisereallies8607]

daddyleon i like the way you think. We're on the same page.

[@mistersharpe4375]

An addendum to some of your points: I think that the Bloodstone Emperor's "tiger-woman bride" might relate somehow to the Children of the Forest, what with the Children's similarity to cats. The colour yellow (and gold by extension, just to throw some shade on the Lannisters), might also tie in with the Children for their large, yellow eyes.

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Mister Sharpe The Children of the Forest (& I believe there are cousin races to the East & West...) are a *HUGE* part of the *Why* etc part of what's going on in this world, created by GRRM, that we love. Very important creatures I believe. Sinister little fuckers...reminds me of a people in reality... (wink wink...).

[@mistersharpe4375]

Personally, I see SO many characters in the series who parallel the Children of the Forest. The Children do not have the physical strength to overpower the warlike First Men, so obviously they turned to cunning and magic, using the weirwoods to spy on Men and gather information. That is almost exactly the same backstory as Petyr Baelish. Not to mention there is Varys, who uses literal children to do his spying. Then we have Bran and Arya and Tyrion, and all such other physically weak characters who must rely on cunning and/or supernatural abilities. If you ask me, the Children spied on the First Men with ravens and weirwoods, and used their powers to influence peoples' dreams. And likely, still do. The Children aren't just hiding out in caves and singing sad songs, they are playing the game of thrones.

[@davidsong582]

cat

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

And here we have another connection: Dragon - Amethyst - gemstone - violet - Danys eyes - Daynes. Ice and Fire = blue and red= violet. Thus we could speculate: the dragon blood is not Valyrian but Dawn Age blood. Amethyst Empress. Danys ancestors.

[@anaisabel713]

I'm from Venezuela and we haven't got the world of ice and fire at all yet. Considering the state my country is in it is not a priority. But I love you guys for giving me so much info about it to put together with the info I find Online. I love you guys! This was brillant and pretty intresting.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much...I've followed what is going on in Venezuela for years, going well back into the Chavez years...I'm sorry you have to deal with that...hopefully things change there soon

[@anaisabel713]

The Order of the Green Hand oh well the whole hell started with chavez socialistic ass so you seem pretty knowledgeable! Thanks, let's hope it gets better soon. In the meantime your videos do brighten up my day! Hugs for you guys!

[@brendanfechter4889]

Ana Isabel Pire Venezuela, Ay mi amor move here and marry me. ;) but in all seriousness I hate that you can't get TWOIAF as I love that book and will happily send you a copy bc everyone should own it

[@anaisabel713]

Brendan Fechter lol that's sweet thanks

[@donwallacedcruz]

To go West you must go East. Yes.... more of Essos please!

[@WaseemKhsaad]

Amethyst empress being the forebears of valyrians gives another meaning to Danys "Mother of Dragons"

[@Thejericko17]

So politically/strategically it makes sense that Aegon would be against the Tiger's agenda to conquer and unite all of the colonies of Valyria under Volantis. He would likely see any consolidation of power as a genuine threat as a united "New Valyria" would almost certainly seek to reclaim all of it's former holdings, including but not limited to the outpost of Dragonstone. This would have resulted in Aegon having to literally fight a war on two fronts ( or eight depending on how you're counting lol) as he was still consolidating his own power in the Seven Kingdoms. A weakened Free Cities means a stronger Aegon as he benefited from the chaos, think Littlefinger. To your point, I'm sure the Tiger's had other agenda's as well but Occam's razor makes this one of the simplest and most reasonable explanation for his actions.

[@Arya-kb7so]

i really hope GRRM watches your channel, so you can help him with the fine details. amazing work, as always. love this channel.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

that would be unreal

[@CharlesZane_]

So much influence from the Cthulhu Mythos in ASoIaF. The same book you reference about the king in yellow, also includes Hastur, The Unspeakable One, Him Who Is Not to be Named. Mel says something very similar about the Great Other as well.

[@dmckenzie9281]

The c is silent in scythe.

[@RobertKaucher]

Dale Mckenzie and it has no etymological relationship with the word sigh.

[@randomshit308]

I noticed that too

[@StealthMaestroSharpe]

“SKythe, sKythe? It’s scythe, say it right!” ~mayor quimby’s nephew

[@DD-ok2pt]

OMG!!! The STENCH!!! The Sons of the Harpy are already in Kings Landing!!! They have been mentioning the smell coming from KL since season one. Queen of Thorns mentions it as she enters KL. Last season the soldiers that Arya come upon also mention the smell. Also, if this is a protracted battle between Dragons and Tigers then it perfectly explains CRASTER! Maester Aemon practically confesses to Jon that Craster is his son. Then later they show Aemon in the same frame with Gilly and the baby, his granddaughter and his grandson. Perhaps the Night King interest in Craster's sons is because they are Valyrian. Craster has babies with his daughters to keep the seed strong something Valyrians do. Is the plan that the tiger rides the dragon...forever. Craster says that he is on the "right side of the Gods" and he will survive come the long night. This is like what you are saying that certain people thrived thru the longnight because they were in league with the Sons.

[@Reverserandy]

I truly appreciate the time, effort, and thought that both of you put into these videos. Thank you for your talent.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you for watching

[@MissRiny]

The story of Grazdan the Great forming an empire while all other people where miserable and him having half human children reminds me of Craster, who lived happily while the other wildlings fled since he offered his sons to the Others. Their names are similar too.

[@allyriastark3508]

Craster was ally yes and unknowingly the Night's Watch managed to get rid of that man

[@yensid4294]

Thank you for the in depth on tiger & harpy symbolism/history. Enjoyed the taoist content too. Great video as always.♡

[@btaybreadtastic]

There do seem to be a lot of potential "tiger" suitors trying to wed "dragon" Dany to fulfill prophecies and oaths.

[@gllyflower]

Great work, guys! I love your "seed" analysis. The bit of yin in the yang and vice versa really harmonizes with GRRM's notion of nothing pure this or pure that. No pure villains or heroes, just people with complex bits! Really interesting!

[@umpteenexpression530]

YEEEEESSSSSSSS, THANK YOU FOR ANOTHER VIDEO. THESE ARE MY LIFE BLOOD school starts tomorrow and ive been thinking about starting the books again. Nothing fuels my curiosity in the way the Song of Ice and Fire does... so far

[@zeri0n544]

GRR Martin doesn'r really believe in absolute good or evil, as seen from interviews. He believes in the contrast seen in people's actions.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

George doesn't think people are pure evil or pure good...causes and movements are different...let's take the Nazis and an example...the individual Nazis weren't pure good or pure evil, but their cause was, and they needed to be stopped

[@dudelit6482]

Bravo for yet another awesome video. We need an hour long video one of these days. This one was just starting to really blow my gourd.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

maybe someday...we have found that people don't watch much more than 20 minutes or our videos and viewership drops like a rock right around there and we feel like doing all this work and having most people not even hear the best part, which we often save for the end, which makes us hesitant to do it

[@AzaleaJane]

I recently got my mom into the books, and she looooves that Taoist stuff. She's gonna love this channel!

[@michaelguilbert8857]

love the way you 2 support your theories , for a book reader this a great channel to watch !!

[@tehn3085]

This was yet another awesome video! 😊 You guys should do a video about the Maesters... When you get a chance.

[@lisaalvarez9742]

I wish this was your full time job. Your content is so amazingly well thought out. I hate having to wait for new videos - but I get it, real life. :)

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I wish we could figure out how to produce more content...it's not just real life sometimes...sometimes it takes us that long to figure something out or feel like we haven't supported our idea with enough text and/or historical/mythological evidence and go back for more...we're going to try to do more live q&a's

[@reyniknamyrion3557]

The Bloodstone Emperor just makes me think of Euron Greyjoy - a half-mad sorcerer hellbent on becoming a godlike figure of darkness and death who plans to rule over all as the world crumbles around him.

[@branthebeardedbuilder6813]

Just in time to listen while I crawl under the hood of this truck!!! Perfect timing

[@johndaly5268]

Another great video that taught me just as much of our world as it did of georges. Time to rewatch a few more. Have a wonderful day

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thanks...you too

[@gurtreynolds470]

No it can’t end I need more of your videos I’ve already watched all of them several times ahhhhhhhhh!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Sorry Gurt. I think we're going to do another live q&a this week if that helps

[@gurtreynolds470]

The Order of the Green Hand it certainly does it certainly does. I know it has to take to guys a lot of time doing all you fact finding and research, but never the less it pays off and every video is amazing 👍🏼🤘🏼👏🏼🙌🏼

[@jimboy3625]

Very nice work as always guys, you're worth the wait!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you Jim

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

when's the next video i can't wait

[@Yosya8059]

Another great video! The revelation about tigers is huge for me, thanks! I like how this yin yang concept coincides with your videos about Dorne, and Rhoynar, and House Martell (I hope I spelled it correctly). You said that they are associated with water, which can be connected to ice. But as you said water is an element of the dark side of the yin yang. I really like how it all comes into place.

[@LucidHorizons]

Finally! You both are a breath of fresh air. Thank you! 🤗

[@guesswho1047]

So happy to be able to enjoy your work again! Catching up on what I missed as you two continue to outdo yourselves 💚✋

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much...glad to see you back in the comments

[@guesswho1047]

The Order of the Green Hand Thanks! Hurricane Irma had me out of commission for a little bit but thank God everything is pretty much back to normal 🙏 Happy to be able to enjoy & engage, one of many things that get taken for granted.

[@miy1925hassun]

Okay, the "lying piece of shit Andals" is tottaly going to be my new catchphrase along with the "Damn Elves". Also I always wondered why Aegon, a Valyrian dragonlord, would choose to prevent a supposed re-establishment of the Freehold. It really goes along nicely with the facts about Old Ghys and their corruption. They(at that time reduced to the cities of the Slaver's Bay) were also responsible for convincing Valyria to take up the slave trade IIRC. On a side note, Bloodstone Emperor looks so much like an Ancient Sith Lord- wait a minute!

[@magister343]

There was another Dragon Lord, Aurion, who had already tried to reestablish Valyria and make himself its first Emperor. He, his dragon, and his armies were never seen again.

[@JoshuaBarnes2298]

I'm only at 5:10 so you might bring this up later but do you think this is an "oriental-fied" legend to mirror the night king, like the tiger woman is the same other as the night kings bride, just passed down with different stories? Or will there be a tiger person invasion at the climax of the myreenese knot and George just slipped one past us again?

[@madambutterfly1997]

great finale. got that bad taste of season 7 out of my mouth

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Hasan Wilson Same! That's why we stick with the mountains of text information & expound!!✌

[@daddyleon]

What type of taste?? A Ghiscari taste?

[@Canuovea]

Being brutal doesn't make one uncivilized. Necessarily. Bloodstone Emperor seems a bit Night Kingish to me. Obviously an earlier version of course, but still interesting. Rome vs Carthage, clearly is the inspiration for Valyria vs Ghis. Considering what happened to Valyria and Rome after they beat their rival, I don't see it being so Manichean. Both became slave mongering maniacs. Though you could make an argument that it is more like Rome vs Etrusca, but I'm not convinced. You could say the Rhoynar are more Carthage-like but I don't see it. The Rhoynar were not a major power compared to Valeria. I really hope that things don't turn out to be so clear cut. I want the Others to be a bit more interesting than just some random evil murder murder just cuz types.

[@VictoriaTraducciones]

Night King or Night's King? because the Night King is a character the tv show made up to give the the White Walkers a face, a leader for fans to hate or love, the Night's King is a book character and has nothing to do with the Night King from the show, the Others have no especific leader that we know of

[@KhukuriGod]

Yep, this channel is conveniently ignoring the fact that the Valyrians were a bunch of despicable asswipes. The Sorrows attest to that, the Braavosi attest to that, the Faceless Men attest to that, and the Ghiscari asswipes attest to that as well.

[@avrilavigne21]

Since Valyria is Rome, I guess Old Ghiz is Egypt and Persia: great enemy empire to the east with pyramids. The Roynar is both Carthage and the Greek city states: independent city states with a rivalry with Rome related to a waterway trade

[@drlaloblancor3789]

Thank you for this wonderful and well crafted explanation!

[@billhicks3835]

As always well done. Staying with the train of thought it's interesting to note the historical mythology of the wolf, which in this story has etherealy balanced/perfected the Dragon; while the Westerosy symbol of the Tiger ends up being the Lion. Hope that's where this is going.

[@thuginstincts]

bill hicks c4

[@jason32742]

Takes me back to when we chatted about the harpy and the children so long ago 😊

[@CharlesZane_]

So does that mean the original Reek was blood of the Harpy? Makes sense and he was the primary influence for Ramsey becoming so twisted.

[@kaleomungin]

what?

[@magicman3400]

Stan The Man I think reek just has a problem with his digestive system that doesn’t allow him to process certain foods and this causes people to stink

[@philruther8705]

Like first, now let's watch the video! I love you both!!!

[@molly-zx9cr]

Another excellent video that last sentence blew my mind!

[@jokerofMI6]

@12:52 Not just in ancient Chinese, still retain similar meaning presently. (Same for Yang)

[@XF5LX]

The work you guys put in these videos is tremendous. You deserve more subscribers.

[@TRIPPYbugger]

17:54 The 'c' in 'Scythe' is silent. Sorry to knit pick!

[@ScorpioTear]

Mushy Pea Supper They also pronounced Tartarus wrong.

[@bigearl33]

great video , this is by far the best ASOIAF channel on youtube

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much

[@moniislam4646]

amazing stuff again, been waiting a while!

[@babybalrog]

You failed to mention the earth part of Yin. It makes me think of all the caves the Children hang out in. Also water and earth makes me think of trees and nature, a favorite of theirs. This would feed the theory that the children and the others are related, or allied. One important over site, is that in eastern theology, Yin and Yang, are not considered good and evil. But a system of balance. This brings to minds GRRM's use of the name Other, and how "others" is a typical psychological means of identifying enemies in the real world. Everyone fears "the other." But it's wrong to assign evil to them. They are different, misunderstood, but not evil. In keeping with GRRM's general anti-war message, I wonder if we won't discover this about the Others too. Granted Ghis seems like pure evil to me, bloodstone emperor and all that. Craster would fit right in.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

there are more videos to come...there is too much information to put it all into a video that is watchable...otherwise it would sound like we were reading long lists of facts in our viewer's general direction

[@bmirkhanzadeh]

One of your best works! Absolutely amazing 👏. Order of Green hand is the John Petruccci of ASOIAF universe!

[@benusrael3841]

if Brandon the builder lived during the last night his grandfather was garth greenhand. does this mean that the first men have not been there for 12 thousand years and the dawn age is a myth?

[@catangel70]

You ever think old George is scrolling through youtube and sees this, clicks on it and says Holy Shit - they get it :D

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

That would be pretty much the greatest thing we could imagine happening as a result of doing this

[@Cojer52]

Great topic and very well done. Thank you.

[@crazyscotsman9327]

I'd love for you guys to discuss the Night King and his bride.

[@devi_dane3982]

Ilyrio also wears yellow and a tigers eye ring 🤔

[@silenthero618]

Devi *plays intense intro as my mind breaks with how many theories can be made with that fact alone *

[@devi_dane3982]

Silent Hero haha,and what about Gorgi/Gogossos - Gorgon (/ˈɡɔːrɡən/; plural: Gorgons, Ancient Greek: Γοργών/Γοργώ Gorgon/Gorgo) is a female creature. The name derives from the ancient Greek word gorgós, which means "dreadful", and appears to come from the same root as the Sanskrit word "garğ" which is defined as a guttural sound, similar to the growling of a beast.

[@docshelley1969]

Wow, great research. Well done! Thank you guys ;-)

[@thefastmagician]

Thank you for more great videos. Love the livestreams but these are great.

[@TheBigjim1992]

great vid as always

[@morellanaghenz778]

The comment about dragons and amethysts gave me chills. Amazing find guys! But I do have a question. Do you guys think the doom happened because the valyrians had been corrupted by ghis by having slaves as well? I can't get past that valyria also had slaves but I don't think they always did.

[@jorenvanderark3567]

they indeed did not slavery was introduced to valeryria after the 5th ghiscari war before that they held no such practice.

[@jamespinto1884]

Awesome vid, guys! I feel so yellow! :D

[@mozart7820]

Mind blown, well worth the wait.

[@SJPace1776]

3:54 = Hahaha! Man, this hits home as a lover of historiography.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Any dislikes are or will be the children of the forest

[@FilipCordas]

No we all know who is to blame for dislikes Catelyn Stark.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

Filip Cordas maybe she works with the children of the forest

[@edi9892]

Emilio Camacho Erice No, all dislikes come from maesters.

[@emiliocamachoerice6380]

edi we don't know if they work together

[@thedelacruz]

D&D are the children of the forest.They took a perfectly great story and..stuck an obsidian dagger on it.

[@kuricosmos]

Good video but in regards to Volantis, you missed the mark there completely. Valyria is not nearly as good as your theories make it out to be, this is GRRM. Volantis, Valyria's colony, was doing what any colony should have done; trying to reunite Valyria. That their Old Blood is Tigers and Elephants is more in root with their Indian inspiration showing Soldiers vs Merchants. Mercantalism dominates Essos; which is seen as more peaceful. Besides, only a united Essos could oppose Westeros, that was why he did it. Essos was sent back since no one wanted it united. As for why the Tiger party is regaining favour, Dany and her blasted Dragons smashed the slave trade. Bringing Essos back into the mix.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I think you're really going to like our next video...we kinda view Volantis as a representation of the more corrupt elements of Valyrian society...we've never said every Valyrian was good...we think they, as a whole, represent life and light in the story, but that is not the same thing as saying they were all good...they were too rich and too powerful for there not to be corrupt, or even evil, elements within their ranks...the rest will be in the next video or two that we come out with

[@samibehada4197]

Valyria had slaves mining in the worst conditions possible... Bravos is a city built by escaoed slaves that hid for a century from their old masters. How are these slavers any better than the Ghiscari?

[@KhukuriGod]

@@samibehada4197 The Valyrian wankery is strong with these videos.

[@Ebbagull]

Your best work yet! Keep it up! :D

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you so much

[@asharadaynedragonblood1803]

Very very cool. You do such a great job. Keep up the work!!!

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

Thank you Lady Ashara

[@mrredeef]

I think the reference to Ice and Fire in the start of the story is a red herring away from the fact that what makes the different societies different makes them more different than they are similar, but that's not to say that there aren't social structures that clearly tend more towards evil, and those that tend more towards being good. I also think that pitting the Ice vs the Fire is the very trap that brings you down in the end. It's a song of Ice AND Fire. It doesn't explicitly say the ice is against the fire, we just assume that's what it means, as does almost every character in the series, sadly.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

by George's definition, Ice is death, betrayal and cold inhumanity and Fire is life, love and passion...those seem like opposites to me

[@mrredeef]

But just because two things are opposites doesn't mean they're against each other, especially in the case of human emotions which are a vast sea of grey areas. A person can betray someone with vehement passion in the unveiling of their treacherous nature, or be very inhumane in the way that they show their 'love'. Needless to say though, this logic has no footing in the physical reality of ice and fire, which are opposites. I also think it's interesting how Martin uses the faith of the seven as a classic example of religions demonizing serpent-cults.

[@tisalew]

A new video? Today is a good day 😊

[@sophiemoconnell]

Just thought. The House of Black and White has some tao symbolism too. Particularly if you look at the door to the building itself. Does that mean you'll be covering the significance of the black trees? I'm sure I read a passage where they had a similar sheen to obsidian... Or am I just imagining it?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

when we get to Dorne and Qarth, we will be going over some Ironwood-related issues

[@sophiemoconnell]

The Order of the Green Hand Awesome sauce :D

[@KayFiedler]

Now that was very cool, you guys and gals are by far the best story tellers, holy cats......wow for sure....thanks so much..

[@Scrappyhippo]

Very wonderful video! Thanks for making these thought provoking ones. One thing that popped up in my head (off subject but it was just now) was how dragons and water do not mix...Dany is "Stormborn"? Wasn't she born during the fiercest rainstorm with water all around at Dragonstone? Maybe this is important? Love you guys!

[@btaybreadtastic]

Thank you both for taking the time (and having the intelligence) to help sift through this glorious puzzle of information so I can go on making tacos. You guys are the best 😆

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@Demotruk]

If the 'ice' side of the war to come is so associated with death, where 'fire' is with life, why does Melisandre's own magic involve so much death? She burns people alive to perform magic. Dany's dragons required blood sacrifice to hatch and the dragons are instruments of destruction. It seems like both are ultimately associated with death.

[@KhukuriGod]

Yep. The *Fire = Life, Ice = Death* thinking is a trap. Fire burns you to crisp. Ice can soothe your wounds and preserve your food. Water, which is basically a warmer form of ice, is the immediate basis of most forms of life. And speaking of water, we must not forget that the Valyrians - the supposed "good guys" of history - destroyed the Rhoynar, who seemed to rely on water magic. We know of no tale of the Rhoynar dicking around destroying and enslaving others like the Ghiscari. But we do know of another major civilization that was doing exactly that for thousands of years - the "good guy" Valyrians. This video is just desperate for reasons to be in Team Fire, no matter the shittiness of being in that team.

[@tarvoc746]

Given that you called out the role of slavery for the culture of Old Ghis, may I ask what your position on slavery in Valyria is? We know the Valyrians held slaves too, but for some reason, the specific way Ghiscari treat their slaves angered the Valyrians to such an extent that they waged five wars against the Ghiscari and eventually burned their cities to the ground. Where do you see the differences in Ghiscari vs. Valyrian practices of slavery that could explain such a harsh reaction by the Valyrians? (The Valyrian-Ghiscari wars seem to be losely inspired by the three Punic Wars in which Rome fought against Carthage, but that doesn't explain everything about them.)

[@jsull81]

So who is fighting for balance? Stannis? Jon? Jaime? Tyrion?Doran?Varys!? LF!!?? I know this one goes against your broader thesis (which is becoming quite compelling) but the HoB&W does seem to value balance e.g. the doors (each with a 'seed' mind you), the chairs, the robes, etc)

[@nj3195]

The Ghiscari remind me of the Persian Empire and the the Valyrians a mix of Greece and Roman empire. I think it was Alexander the Great who had issue with the Persian Empire and beat them in a series of battles. That reminds me of the Valyrians beating the Ghiscari. As far as the religion or myths the Persians at the time of Alexander the great, Persians were in to the religion Zoroastrianism which by the way happens to have Ahura Mazda as its Supreme Being or Azor Ahai to us Game of Thrones fans. Zoroastrianism seems to be the basis for many new religions in our world. New meaning the focus on one god and not multiple gods. Kind of like how Melisandre calls the lord of light "the one true god". Of course the Faith of the Seven are the Greek gods and the old gods are nature spirits. What crossed my mind is that the Many faced god seems to fit the role of Islam as in The Ishmaelian sect of Islam. Very clever GRR Martin!

[@Thullin00]

Natalit Johnson Carthage would fit better i think

[@nj3195]

No doubt there is influence from Carthage and Egypt for the slavery part of Ghiscar in Game of Thrones since it is an amalgamation of acient societies but there are too many similarities between the harpy statue and a statue of what was assumed to be Ahura Mazda or Azor Ahai for us GOT peeps. GGR Martin has just made a switch and given Ghiscar the symbol instead of the lord of light the symbol. If you look up zoroastrian symbol you will see the harpy wings and the head is the sphinx of egpyt.

[@allyriastark3508]

In Islam there is only one God - the Lord or Al-Ilah > Allah - so I don't think any sect of "Islam" suits Many face Gods. Plus know that Quran tells the battle between Rome and Persia and say when Persia won müşrik (those who claim to believe in God but actually worship others) were happy and but believers shouldn't lost hope because Rome will win the next war.

[@TheSmokeyWolf.]

Worth the wait !

[@chasx7062]

Just noticed that fire and water are opposites, Rhoynish vs Valyrians, and Targaryans vs Dorne, and of course The Children of the Forest vs Valyrians

[@kuronokei01]

Hi from Costa Rica, I love your videos guys you are awesome

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much

[@Richard_Nickerson]

The C in "scythe" is silent... like "scent"

[@lenox4166]

Both of you are geniuses. Thank you for the videos. Awesome ending too

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you

[@sheprime]

Reek was also said to be pungent and perfume couldn't mask it, does this mean he is a harpy?

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

I would say there is little doubt he was evil

[@DevinDTV]

btw it's not very strange that a bunch of different groups would ally together to defeat a growing empire. people don't like growing empires because they tend to conquer and subjugate. why would the tagaryens want a new volantene empire? it's not like they were at the helm

[@jorenvanderark3567]

there where offers to the targaryens to come over and lead a new valyrian freehold who do you think made those offers???

[@DevinDTV]

oh, I didn't know that. I was just responding to what's in the video

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Awesome! I've said it so many times now but this is one of the great ones, once again... This is beautiful work here! *If* you're new here - *please* start at the beginning! These two great thinkers, & narrators as well, have already left a little gem for You...which is the Order in which you should watch this incredible analysis of an incredible story - in their Playlists. Go there! Watch in order & thusly move on to the most current videos!! 69 got stuck in my head now from all the symbols & duality... Lol, Yin & Yang... Extremely well done & I love TWOIAF even more after this! Thanks, as always!! *Heil! OoTGH!* *- The Red Viper* 🐍🔥🦂

[@chasx7062]

Ice and Fire, Ying and Yang, Balance in the Force, twas pretty obvious :P

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Umm? Yes.......and? Also, it's Yin not ying...

[@chasx7062]

So how will the White Walkers strive for balance in the force? :P

[@ValarMorghulis...]

Chas X Firstly we must be talking of the actual book series... So, I cannot reply yet... Yet I will reply as if I'm guessing you're a reader & not just fan of the show (which is/was great)... Actually no, nevermind, I'll wait. *I'm not sure what you're asking? This isn't star wars..it's the deepest story ever told. Yes, we can all argue & dispute over it & say "no this is deeper"... Ahem. Forget all that... Please, just tell or ask me what you're seeking!* - TRV 🦂🔥🐍

[@chasx7062]

The problem is that GOT fans are "INCEPTED" with a fantastical world, where the fans project their hopes and dreams, which incidentally, GRRMartin has not been able to keep up...Channels like here and Preston Jacobs have read more into the words than what GRRMartin has intended, which is why he will never finish his series. In the perfect world, there must be balance, ice and fire, hot and cold, love and hate, good and evil, and it could be in a galaxy far far away :P

[@gloriabrown6403]

The last part you said fits perfectly. Varys, that is. Ned's first, short and simple description of Varys when he first meets him. Eddard Chapter 21, Book 1 A Game of Thrones. Maybe?

[@BudTezzy2345]

Damn! This is great stuff!!

[@tomaszprzyby784]

That's a great tigerwoman, manticore and harpy connection. I'm quite impressed. I haven't seen all your videos but I would love to hear your theories 'bout Rhoynars, their watermagic and wars with Freehold.

[@KhukuriGod]

They're gonna say the Rhoynar were evil too. Their Valyrian fanboyism clearly shows in these videos.

[@Holypikemanz]

Beautiful pictures.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you!

[@jorenvanderark3567]

so if i understand correctly you believe that the valeryrians are the forces of light that battle the forces of death and darkness. then why where the valyrians and rhoynar fighting??? because i do not believe that they would be part of death, darkness and evil

[@magister343]

Neither Yong nor Yang are supposed to be considered evil. The Rhoynar culture does fit the definition of cool, dark, wet, and feminine, much better than the Ghiscari actually.

[@aronjanssonnordberg8379]

D E E P L O R E

[@jonjones7739]

awesome ive missed you guys

[@tris79]

I was hoping for part 3 of Arianne :) I'm interested in your take on the caves (although knowing your pace that might be part 7 :) hahah)

[@devinblois]

Fire destroys; ice preserves.

[@Thullin00]

OHHH SHIT THAT LAST PART FEELS LIKE SPOT ON MAN HOLY SHIT

[@chasx7062]

The Valyrians werent exactly freedom fighters after they gained power either: they went and improved the slave trade

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

We find it interesting that the maesters claim the Valyrians enslaved hundreds of nations yet they can only name one

[@chasx7062]

Valyrians conquered just about ALL of Essos, pretty sure that covered many many nations, and they also wiped out the river people too? YOu know the ancestors of the Dornish and Martells? :P

[@wolfsbanealphas617]

remember their a reason for everything nothing clear cut we only have the maestar bias reports no one else

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

fighting wars against people who attacked you first isn't something I personally would call outrageous...the Rhoynar attacked and flooded a Valyrian city...the Valyrians retaliated...the Rhoynish then band together into a massive army and marched south and were defeated...why is it evil to win a war?

[@chasx7062]

you know the lore better than I do, but by the cartoon backstories, Rhoynar were peaceful river people :P Suffice to say, All great empires are built on the back of slavery

[@clayedwards7191]

I just want you guys to know that i appreciate you guys. the other ASOIAF channels pale in comparison.

[@TheOrderoftheGreenhand]

thank you so much

[@bschuler6216]

I'm here to collect my credits for eastern philosophy seminar, ancient civ., comparative religions, and history 301. Thanks.