Games Workshop Profits Are Up! ....but how....

[@TheOuterCircle]

So, why is it that everyone is charged the VAT despite living outside of the UK/EU where it applies? Why is it that boxes have less and less models every year, and yet the prices go up and up? Why it's Games Workshop logic in full swing! The sad part is that people will defend this "it's their right as a company to charge you whatever they like". That's it guys, support the big company, they have your best interests at heart...

[@raf155]

But you are overlooking the cost of international shipping and associated costs. Then when you reach the United States, you have continent wide distribution. Is there a premium Mark up because people want their product? Absolutely. But I don't think that a product being more expensive in a foreign market far from the base of production and core distribution is that unusual. Unlike Australia, one of the joys United States has there are entire states that are sales tax free. We can always purchase from them. So I can usually find a tactical Squad around$35 give or take. Conversely, I don't understand why everything is so damn expensive in Australia though. I appreciate it is a Southern Pacific continentz but seriously, It is still a First World Nation what the developed National infrastructure. Products should not be that expensive to ship and distribute there.

[@TheOuterCircle]

RAF IV I didn’t overlook it at all. International shipping is about 3 cents per box. I covered it in a previous video. About $8-16 will cover the actual cost of almost any product they make at Games Workshop. This includes molds, shipping, labour, materials etc.

[@raf155]

Interesting. $.03 per box? Perhaps my comment was hasty.

[@andtheinternettkills]

Strange since british webshops usually advertise to non-EU countries that it will be cheaper since no VAT is necessary for countries outside the single market.

[@lukaDeadEye111]

I agree that characters should be a bit more expencive, but when you're crossing the 15€ mark for Europe that's where it gets too much. Most of the older Blood Angel characters have a price of 12€. The sanguinary preist is a very detailed model and costs less than the primaris apothecary, even though i think the Sng preist is a much better model (special chainsword, cloth, blood angel trinkets, the chalice etc). I agree with this, i just still don't get why are 4 characters almost as expencive as a boxed starter. Did they thing noone would notice? And even when we pass all of that, what is there to say about FW prices? Which are even worse than GW plastic prices somewhere (excluding primaris characters)

[@Pedantic_Brit]

They're a games company. They roll 2d6 for deciding their prices. "New marines, right how much" *shake shake, roll* "thats a 6 and a 3, so £63 it is"

[@TheOuterCircle]

Pretty sure they roll a D100 or two for more products these days.

[@lazysponge]

10 Dire Avengers 30 Euros. 5 Dire Avengers 26 euros the best example for me.

[@TheOuterCircle]

I remember when they were sold in blister packs, all he aspect warriors, and they dropped the amount of minis in the packs down so you had to buy more blisters.....

[@samloveswarhammer2885]

The Warsmith same here

[@ronaldheberlein5823]

The Warsmith broadsides used to come in packs of 2 with their old sculpt but now it's $74 Australian just for one, you know I think I'll quit while I'm ahead and go buy trading cards instead.

[@jakkuhl6223]

When you get conned, you have two options: take a hard look in the mirror and admit to the cosmos that you got fleeced, or save face and insist that your snake oil really was worth it. The 40k IP is kickass. Too bad it's in the hands of a company that thinks that's all need to be premium.

[@quietside3734]

I read an article today about how Apple's profits are up, despite sales being down. Similar story - they're pretty much just charging people more because they can. Also it's "fewer" models, not less models. Sorry, but I just had to say that! Shoot me. Shoot me now.

[@Pikkabuu]

Well Apple has the same thing going on as GW does! There are tons of people who would support both to the death and even if Apple/GW demanded money for smacking their customers on their heads with a trout the people would fork over the money for it and call it the best thing ever in their life!

[@pupp993]

dropped out the hobby 8 years ago because of the pricing and it genuinely wounds me that i cannot afford to return to it because of GW doing things like overcharging products, suing 3rd party companies for custom upgrade kits etc.

[@RocketHarry865]

@@KuK137 they are still doing it

[@DustyTheKitty]

Less models and higher prices, it's been the fucking mantra of Games Workshop for many years now. Seriously, Look into Blue stuff recasting and Kneadatite aluminium putty, I've been having a lot of good results with making copies of Squats and Tilean/Dogs of war models and those methods and materials work just as well with the current stuff with enough time and effort, Failing that, look into the Chinese market, I'd take the morally gray route over getting buttfucked my GW without lube, fuck 'em!

[@Ymlhael]

I remember the good old day where 10 tactical marines or 20 skavens (multi part + metal kit) was 150 Franc or 20€ or 17.50£...

[@winning_by_name]

Im in the process of moving onto Warlord games; they offer cheaper models and entry into great game systems like Bolt action... I am fed up of being ripped of... £36 for one model like jenetia krole... that’s half an army in BA.

[@minimundus1712]

Warlord stuff is amazing i collect konflikt 47 awsome rules and great prize for the minis ;)

[@vx345]

Sick whistling skills Maccha

[@TheOuterCircle]

I didn't even listen to that part. I know I did it, but I didn't want to hear it haha

[@socialanimalmedia]

I guess this must be why ive started buying any GW plastic on ebay. Not saying I was in any way aware of the stuff you are saying here but when I began realizing that a lot of the overpriced crap on Forge World is actually NOT that much more expensive than the plastic you buy in the States here I started doing some head scratching. Makes a lot more sense in this context why it's so much easier to find better prices elsewhere.

[@beanspud88]

Sam Richardson play orks and just kit bash all your pricey stuff *looking at you mek guns!*

[@ramongraf1714]

I mean it’s fair to charge higher rates for the additional logistics required including export fees, taxation... it’s pretty common with multinational companies to charge more outside of their home areas

[@delphaneuxlacroix]

But Macca! How can GW staff afford to buy a new Bentley every week if they don't charge these prices?

[@ltGargoyle]

this is why 3d Printing is being developed by gamers.

[@blessedpeas]

Companies in this industry will make money on anything and everything they sell. Only supermarkets are able to operate on the basis of selling some loss leaders, and even then it's not like those work anymore due to how competitive that market is now. The box sets like Dark Imperium and the new Killteam starter set are perceived as great value to us as consumers because they are cheaper than buying all the items separately from GW yes, but that does not equal GW 'losing money', it just means they have a smaller profit margin compared with if everyone who bought these boxsets had bought the exact same items individually (which they and we know we wouldn't do, hence why they make a 'value' boxset in the first place). GW's pricing is at the extreme end of the scale, with ever-increasing prices on core boxes of Troops choices (they say owing to increasing costs, inflation etc) and even more extreme price increases on characters and Elite units that we theoretically buy less of because the rules they wrote dictate that we cannot have entire armies of Terminators. GW know we will still buy their characters and the special units even if it hurts our wallets, because we are emotionally invested in the universe and lore they have created, and every price increase is them manipulating you further and further. I'd love to see what would happen if GW lowered its prices (because it could and still maintain a healthy markup), made the prices in their stores the same as independent retailers (because why punish customers who come into your stores with higher prices?!), and introduced some form of logical and more reasonable pricing structure. Let people play with FW in store (hell why not let people collect FW from GW stores), sell paint pots with dropper lids, update codexes and rulebooks at the same time, update ranges regularly, just do something!!

[@jakkuhl6223]

Adam Thompson Heresy. Maybe if GW were an American company, but they're British. And so their attitude is that they are the bestest thing ever on account of because, and customers should be thankful that they're allowed anything to do with their glorious IP. If Americans owned it, I bet they'd make it a REALLY competitive company. Right now they're just a snooty old world company that charges a premium for its IP.

[@Cross3061980]

This even extends to the new Knights. The Castellan/ Harpoon knight is £5 more expensive than the Crusader in the UK. In Australia, that £5 is increased to a $100 price difference.

[@robweb2928]

No company would ever sell a product that just breaks even, especially not GW. To answer why their prices are so terrible, I think they do it because they can. They have many fan of their product, so it doesn't matter if they are being extremely greedy, they know people will buy it. They would rather make profit by exploiting the people who are loyal to them than making a product that will bring in new players.

[@wraithship]

Reminds me of when they halved number of dire avengers in a box but only dropped the price of the box by 80%. The price per model went up 60%! Exact same kit, just half the number of sprues

[@izaakkemp8938]

Watching these videos is like addiction therapy for me. I'm happy to say that after watching many of Macca's videos, this month was the first month in 9 years I did not spend any money on GW products because of their obscene price gouging (among other things). Can I get an official The Outer Circle 30 day chip or something?

[@TheOuterCircle]

How about some magic beans?

[@Pikkabuu]

I seriously doubt that GW is losing money on the large sets. There is simply a lot of air in the GW prices that they simply MAKE less money with them rather than lose money.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Bingo.

[@tomdenhollander2289]

on the money here mate

[@andtheinternettkills]

I saw a video by tabletop minions a few years ago talking about somewhat a similar topic. Their hypothesis is that GW is pricing up models that they expect people to buy less of, therefore an elite unit they expect you to buy less of costs more than battleline units that you need to buy several of.

[@leakycheese]

ZRTSTRA The core model is quite different to what TTM presented although there is some truth in it “around the edges”. I want to make a video talking about how GW prices it’s models, or at least the parts of the range that tend to cause the most controversy i.e. the plastic kits. Hopefully soon ;)

[@TheOuterCircle]

I'd like to watch that. I'm sure you could look at it from a far less cynical level. I'm bombarded daily by pricing questions and emails, and because I am hear to be the voice of the disgruntled viewer, I have to do something and say something. It doesn't mean I'm not VERY over talking about this stuff. If I had my way I'd just be covering getting started in heresy videos and battles of the heresy. Instead I find myself having to dive down pricing rabbit holes and I end up spending all my time researching prices, and taxes, and conversion rates and inflation over time and inflation vs conversion.... uugggggghhhh

[@andtheinternettkills]

leakycheese looking forward to it and future installments of retrohammer! Love your videos!

[@RobCrawford23]

Considering the modern figures are mostly car sculpted and the slicing (septation of parts) is carried out via the car package why would strongly detail cost more. They simply charge as much as they beleve the market will tolerate. The rreason I walked away from GW products in the early 80s was because it was obvious that fantasy battles and 40k only existed to sell large numbers of figures. The RPGs, board and skirmish game players didn't buy enough figures for GWs liking

[@Julian-xr5db]

Your countrymen and North Americans are the reason they keep the prices like this, if no one bought GW stuff in Australia and the America’s I’m sure they would lower the prices.

[@LordXypherious]

GW benefits greatly from rampant materialism. People will complain endlessly about the prices, poor sculpts and lousy rules, but they just gotta have more minis, so they buy them anyway. Now they can claim "community engagement" and boxed "deals" as a rationalization for their addiction to acquiring possessions.

[@dwharden1]

Omg $77 for 5 flyers in Australia... and I thought USA was bad pricing... sorry Macca

[@Donmegamuffin]

Macca, you should look at the price gouging on the new Imperial Sector Chinese terrain, it's almost sickening

[@socialanimalmedia]

Hey - if you're gonna buy stuff MADE in China, you might as well save yourself a couple bucks and just BUY strait from China. Sounds like GW is doing fine w/out our business anyhow.

[@Donmegamuffin]

Well, that's exactly why months ahead of the release, I managed to bag myself the older 4-building city box off ebay made in England for substantially less

[@socialanimalmedia]

Nice - with the weird way GW is making and not selling products like Scoria and the retro-landspeeder I'm starting to wonder if China will have them for sale before GW does. Watch me say that and have Forge World put those on preorder tomorrow, though lol.

[@Donmegamuffin]

You never know, now you've called it out, it'll probably be months now before they're released ;)

[@socialanimalmedia]

Nooooo!!!! haha :)

[@SOSWhistance]

If you are an international customer ordering from the uk, you can actually claim back the VAT from them later (I don’t know how exactly, but this is what my store manager says when tourists come in and make purchases

[@CarlosSempereChen]

SOSWhistance It’s easy for tourists to do that when leaving the country. But living in the US, I can’t buy things from GW and ask the UK government for my 20% back because GW denies that their US price includes VAT. It’s simply higher than the UK price at the current conversion rate. When I order from FW I pay in pounds (no foreign branches), so it feels like I should be able to ask for the VAT back… but there doesn’t seem to be any way to do it. Believe me, we’ve tried.

[@hellonearth-thehistoryofwa1270]

Recasters are the only reason I still play.

[@jamieriley8444]

I wish GW's shareholders actually played the games and bought the miniatures. I wish they actually played the games and bought the miniatures in Australia. I wish they made ForgeWorld orders in Australia.

[@puffinbasher]

OK, so vat is not a sales tax, its a tax on adding value (for example manufacturing and boxing minis). As such, the uk gov takes there cut.

[@theorea8192]

Could the price difference be the relative power of the unit in the game?

[@seriade]

forge world does this not sure about gw.

[@andtheinternettkills]

Another point is why is it more exspensive to buy directly from an official GW store rather than an independent retailer? It baffles me that they are giving their "competitors" a 10% advantage in their own products.

[@seriade]

the retailer is paying roughly 50-60% of what they are selling it to you for.

[@Custom_Painted_Gamer]

Long story short - gw don't want you to buy from their stores - cheaper to supply 3rd party stores with goods than to pay rent and wages for brick and mortar stores

[@andtheinternettkills]

I actually find this to be sort of plausible. My local GW store has very little selection, instead they offer to order what I want from the GW website with no shipping cost. So I basically have the option of paying 10% more and waiting 1-2 weeks, or go to a 3rd party store and pay less and receive the models straight away. But why have a GW store then? It's a shame because I actually like my local store, they are helpful, knowledgeable and all-round pleasant to talk to.

[@yessir6325]

Competitors? They make money off them, its not like theyre donating models to these other shops, theyre selling them a product and then by default making money without paying for a store front

[@ProjectRevoltNow]

I have a membership at my local hobby store so I get a 10% discount on top of the 10% before tax (roughly save 17.5%) I never buy from gw unless I am at the mall and get impulsive lol

[@Thelordofalldarkness]

I think they are going for the min max stuff.

[@makarovjacovich4168]

Another guy here in KZbin explained that the price was for "game-related" reasons. More specialized kits suchs as elites, or low model-count armies will cost more to make-up for the fewer kits the player will buy. Likewise, you could have mentioned the new Chaos riders, the cool-looking models, with the vampire knights. The v-knights have a price of $100 for 5 vintage knights, while the new chaos knights with new model design, and even more sized costs less than half of a vampire knight kit.

[@dingomen10]

I live in Guatemala and everything in here has the same problem. The thing is that in America you have retailers that buy directly from games Workshop and they pay the UK price they shipped It to America and then they have to pay taxes. It’s the problem of purchasing something that is not produce in your country. Sorry for the bad English.

[@AJratcliffe]

Seeing as GW are said to we investing in a larger production facility, it's almost certain that they are selling more (in volume) than before

[@Thymaisbart]

As for prices in different countries, FFG do a similiar thing the other way around. It's $15 for an X-Wing, but it's £15 for one in the UK. Not as bad, but the differences are plain to see.

[@TheOuterCircle]

At least that time out they have to include a 20% VAT onto the price, where Forge World has to remove it on foreign sales, but doesn't...

[@Thymaisbart]

Yeah that's unfair and that's why I signed the petition. I don't want to see my hobby suffer. :)

[@andtheinternettkills]

I think a clarification is in order, since new laws have been passed here and the recent epidemic has revealed certain procedures GW has which seem to indicate some rather murky behavior. I'm sorry if this gets too long, but it's important to get all the facts and seperate these from what are my speculations. First off, my country has something called a VAT on e-commerce (VOEC). This is basically the standard 25% domestic VAT just expanded to all import. To make it easier for customers, several foreign companies have registered with something called the VOEC registry, which makes VAT payments directly to the government. This is easier because you no longer have to pay an import processing fee (a flat rate) and the VAT upon receiving the package here. As someone mentioned, and my local GW store retail manager said on their facebook page (when asked) when the webstore re-opened, you can send a request to their customer service and ask for a refund of the VAT you have to pay here. This is because as the manager said, he "didn't think they were registered with the VOEC". Why? Because the prices on the webstore and their local store are 100% identical. Only that in the store they are legally obligated to pass 25% of the sale to the government. But on the webstore they are not, since they are not registered. This means that: 1. Unless you ask for a refund of the VAT, GW keeps the additional 25%. 2. You, the consumer, is paying the VAT equivalance once, and then an added actual VAT upon that again. Example: easy-build reivers are 110NOK (webstore and local store). - Their price (in the store) would be 88NOK with 22NOK VAT. - Except if you buy them online it would come to 137,5NOK (excluding VAT on shipping and toll fee) - this means you are paying an additional 55NOK to the price of 88NOK. - the VAT would then be 27,5NOK. - If you don’t ask for the refund, GW is getting an additional 25% (which was intended to be the VAT) and you are paying 27,5NOK VAT. If you do ask for a refund then GW is facing a loss of 6,25% of their 88NOK. They indirectly would pay a VAT of 27,5NOK instead of 22NOK. Not to mention that the time spent processing your refund will mean an additional loss as they spend time giving you their money back. Why would they do this? I speculate that there are 2(indirectly 3) possibilities: 1. They haven’t gotten around to registering to VOEC because they are unaware of it or simply haven’t had the time to implement it in their webstore. 2. They are counting on the consumer not bothering to fill out the paperwork, giving them an additional 25% on the sale. 3. They have run the numbers and the amount of people not claiming a refund gives them higher sales revenue when controlling for the cost of those who do. Setting aside that most webstores do lower their prices for non-EU states, as they are not obligated to pay their own domestic VAT and pass that saving over to the consumer, GW is doing something wrong here. It’s either negligence or greed, take your pick.

[@CarlosSempereChen]

I’m just surprised customers keep putting up with it, especially in Australia and New Zealand.

[@rajibear77]

I think your not understanding it’s a uk company. Lots of companies price according to the market they are selling in. Do they have to ship their products from uk to USA.? Are there any import duties when they import their products to USA.? Apple do the same with their products . USA gets it cheaper than the UK

[@nfortin24]

For the titan you calculated the tax wrong.. at 20% tax was 225 not 275.. original price form = 1.2x = 1350.. 1350/1.2 = 1125 price b4 tax.. 1350 - 1125 = 225.. May not seem like a lot but it is a 27%ish difference... Their prices are still shit..

[@timcuffopoctom6782]

5 Vespid models with no alternative weapons option nearly cost twice as much as10 pathfinders

[@PaintPlastic]

Having to buy most of my GW stuff from the UK now; would like to support my local store but I can't justify paying $92 for 5 blightkings in Aus when I can get them for $45AUD instead.

[@adamfox1669]

Scary...but interesting. Now my question is are all mfg’s of any type of goods paying/ charging the VAT , or is this a GW thing only? I’m completely ignorant of whole process, just curious not trying to start trouble. Thanks Macca. ‘Nother great post/well organized and articulate!

[@Faux_Papa]

The fact that for AUS players it's the same price to buy the resin, named Minotaurs Contemptor Dread (with both weapons included) as it is to buy the plastic Contemptor from GW is proof to their dreadful tactics. This is why i exclusively buy off ebay. Which is a shame, because I'd rather support brick and mortar stores, but I just cant justify a 25%+ price increase.

[@TheOuterCircle]

60% over US price on most miniatures.

[@Ralndrath]

The prices we have to pay here in New Zealand for GW products are utterly ridiculous! It's the big reason why I don't collect.

[@TB-ps6wc]

Eldar dis avengers used to come in boxes of 10 now 5 with a price increase?

[@Darkfist007]

The whole "But import taxes" thing always gives me a chuckle. Yeah I'm sure this big company with stores around the world is getting screwed in import taxes, I'm sure over all these years they never found a cheap way to do it or even made deals to get better prices. I feel the problem with pricing, in general, comes down to them still pricing things based off their role in the game. Elites cost more it's just how it is, it makes no bloody sense to do it.

[@Ap1hw]

They just think we’re ignorant enough to not care or even notice and buy the products anyway

[@leehodges1484]

My theory is the high pricing of new models is partly used to compensate for price deficit on the "cheaper" older kits. What do I mean? When was last time GW did one of their very unpopular annual price rises? 10 years ago, maybe more? Take for example the tyranid hive tyrant kit, it hasn't increased in price since it was released several years ago. The newer kits keep going up in price so the older kits don't have to (price increases would be expected even just for inflation). A "stealth" price increase to cover not increasing the prices of older kits. Could be wrong, but that it what seems to be happening to me, not good practice really.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Interesting fact for you, I did spreadsheet up which took prices over 15 YEARS and compared against inflation. It turns out that most miniatures are priced well ahead of the curve so that they don't need an annual price rise. Instead, they stick at a price point until the margin is sufficiently eaten away by inflation (i.e it becomes less profitable over time) at which point, they raise the prices (and raise them a LOT).

[@01oo011]

And Forge World?

[@GodDamnMonkeys1]

Don't like the prices, don't buy the figures, I play star wars legion now

[@bbtdltd8081]

Yeah more people need to getbthis very very very simple idea

[@casanovafrankenstein33andz78]

You go to company's house U.K. website, and pay for an entire annual account, I think it is about £20, but not sure to be honest. It is very easy and straight forward, you will have their entire accounts, even for the last twenty years if you want it all, and it will not cost much, for, company's house runs like a business also, by selling a company's accounts to others. Good video Macca.

[@casanovafrankenstein33andz78]

I think that you would be much happier following my path into creating a proper full on arcade emulation games room, for side scrollers, beat-em ups, driving games and shooting games, even sport and novelty games. There is an awful lot of value to be had in that field and an awful lot of happiness and fun to be had for the funds required, especially compared to something like G.W.'s games and miniatures. Move on, there is so much more out there for much better value for your hard earned cash - stuff that will make you happy, and not constantly have a feeling that you are being had, and totally ripped off.

[@casanovafrankenstein33andz78]

Someone else, possibly the BBC, may have already put G.W.'s entire accounts up somewhere to be viewed, as evidence of their article claims or evidence of other people's article claims etc.

[@ProjectRevoltNow]

I miss the early 2000's for wargaming (I know the 90's was the best time to play 40k but I was too young then) Shit started going downhill around the time gw started focusing on dawn of war. Around that time we lost many of the specialists games that drew me further into the hobby. Now were losing many awesome sculpts. I will consider selling some of my 40k collection if gw keeps ruining the hobby with the current 8th edition mess of retardation. It was designed to get more people into the hobby so they made 2 pages of rules instead of a book so they could attract lower IQ people into the hobby. Gw still has Matt Ward hired. Let that sink in.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Honestly, the decline began in my most fondly remembered edition, 3rd. I have traced it on numerous 'What Broke the Fans?' videos, there was a general change in how the units were designed, the way power creep accelerated and how codex design would swiftly change after 2 or three books and you ended up with blocks of power books. It honestly didn't change as a cycle from the end of third until the end of 6th, when dataslates, formations and detachments came along and added anther dimension of faeces.

[@ProjectRevoltNow]

The Outer Circle I have watched your wbtf series and most of the videos on your channel! Love your content! I started Warhammer at the end of 3rd edition and went into 4th with the chaos 3.5 codex. Glorious times for my iron warriors. Then the Matt Ward 4th Ed chaos codex came out. After I read it I asked the store manager if I could use the 3.5 codex if I didn't buy the new shitty one. He laughed at me and said no. Despite some of the shitty codecies (mostly Matt Ward) 4th and 5th edition were glorious. Gw tried to fix the problem by making new editions instead of fixing the codecies. Matt Ward is largely to blame. He's still employed by gw. They no longer print the authors name in codecies anymore for a reason (Matt Ward). I blame him for power creep and leading us to the current edition of 40k (I heard Matt Ward helped design the rules for 8th edition, do you know if this is true? it would explain why it is so dumbed down and nonsensical)

[@adamduffield7782]

Things got bad pricing wise around 6th 7th edition. 4th edition was great. The battle of maccrage was about 40/50 quid, black reach was a similar price. Dark vengeance was around 50/60 quid. But storm claw was around 75 quid and Now? Well the new 8th edition is 95 quid!!!! Fuck that!!!!

[@divineauthority]

Yes, I agree that you guys get shafted on price. It might be worth reaching out to people re the VAT side of things, with such a diverse community, there's likely to be a friend of a friend or whatnot that might be able to provide some direction on the matter. However when you're going on about increased prices and not sales numbers, here's a quote from the financial report : "Gross margin declined in the year (2018: 71.4%; 2017: 72.4%)". This would suggest that increased prices aren't at least solely responsible and sales numbers are vastly increasing. To be fair, a profit increase of so much based on price increases alone would be insane and unheard of. It's also not uncommon for companies to not put actual sales figures in financial reports, at least in the UK. I know my company doesn't, and it's not because we're trying to hide something, it's just not a requirement of financial reporting.

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

Shipping, warehouse space, extra transportation costs, running costs of shops, import taxs. There's a lot more to it than that mate.

[@TheOuterCircle]

I am so sick of saying it, but I even said it in the video: It has been covered before, and it has been thoroughly debunked. Import tax to Australia and all the Australian tax relevant to the miniatures combined are less than the VAT, which we do not have to pay. Also, shipping is about 3c per box from the UK to Aus. It really is stuff all.

[@_Anato_]

This is extremely odd. Usually in the UK we get shafted. There will be a game or something in the US that gets released for $50 and then in the UK it would be £45 or even £50 in some places. It's around a lot in online games too where EU US will be paying fair prices based on exchange rates, and then in the UK we'll be paying the top value in £ so if it's $30 for some premium time we'd have £30 and even though people complained about it it was never changed *cough* *Cough* wargaming. In a way I am sad as I am anyway with GWs prices, but a small part of me is like "Well it's not so funny when the shoe is on the other foot is it?"

[@TheOuterCircle]

Pity the countries being gouged the most aren't the ones gouging you back.

[@_Anato_]

Yeah totally. The pricing system is messed up, I had to get out as a kid back when I actually played in third/early fourth. Partly because I was a kid with no income outside of savings from birthdays and the like. Now I don't have a chance in hell what with other hobbies. Was tempted to come back for Titanicus, but with a warlord at £65 It's looking less likely with the only thing really getting me back fully would be a proper re-release of BFG free from all the gimmicks of box sets and crazy pricing. The point I was getting at is usually when people are getting gouged quite severely the general attitude is like "Oh, well sucks for you" instead of creating rumblings to get some pressure to change, what's happened to Upside down land in terms of video game prices as well as things like this is almost criminal.

[@DEATHWATCH2033]

The prices include VAT tax thats because its regulated by the EU

[@TheOuterCircle]

VAT only applies on sales made within the EU. GW selling anything to anyone outside the EU is VAT exempt.

[@DEATHWATCH2033]

it is but you can reclaim the VAT by proving ur a non EU resident, and on their web stores like FW they have to show the price with all taxes included

[@TheOuterCircle]

As Carlos said below to another comment, "It’s easy for tourists to do that when leaving the country. But living in the US, I can’t buy things from GW and ask the UK government for my 20% back because GW denies that their US price includes VAT. It’s simply higher than the UK price at the current conversion rate. When I order from FW I pay in pounds (no foreign branches), so it feels like I should be able to ask for the VAT back… but there doesn’t seem to be any way to do it. Believe me, we’ve tried." They simply deny they're charging a VAT.

[@amandafranks5108]

how did you work out that the US marines should cost 26$? when 25£ would be more

[@TheOuterCircle]

Because you have to remove the VAT first, a European tax applied on that box. Remove that and then you get your US price.

[@kurnou5]

It doesn't apply to the LOTR stuff but a fair few of your other examples such as Terminators vs aggressors were comparing traditional vs injection molding kits. Supposedly, the creation of injection molds is magnitudes more expensive than traditional molds. I'm not defending the practice, but GW has seemed to be hiking up costs on these injection mold sculpts in an attempt to recoup the investment more quickly. I'd love to see someone do some investigation into the pricing difference between the two processes. The Akhelian King and Deathwatch Apothecary would be a good starting point. Same price point, but huge difference between the models and sculpts. Ends up the Akhelian King is actually a traditional plastic to the Apothecary injection plastic. Seeing as GW announced in their earning report that they will be doubling their injection molding facilities, this expensive trend seems set to continue.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Injection molds are something I have a lot of experience with, having built many for industrial applications. They are expensive, yes, but remember that the cost is spread out over thousands of miniatures produced over the life of said mold. The cost can be as little as $1 per miniature, or, if it has a very low quantity production, say, 1000, than as high as $10. But what models in their lifetime have sold less than 1000 units? Even the Pyrovore sold models lol

[@hopesvengeance1043]

Everyone is at it: Apple iPhone X A$1579 or $999 or £999.

[@brokenserenity01]

I've thought GW was abit dodgey for years, the random price increases that never make much sense and generally only get justified by the cult like fans who will literally buy any shit they peddle.

[@kieron3333333]

Lots of companies do this and with it being made in the UK apart from terrain which is made in China they then have to ship it out to other countries and pay a tax however we are paying more for less just look at the primaris characters and compare them to terminator captains. Give us something to show its not about getting the most profit. I wouldn't mind paying for a primaris chaplain if I could poss it like a space marine commander. Variety is the spice of life However look at the destiny 2 dlc prices there the same in the UK as USA now I don't know how tax works in the USA but it looks like in that case activion as charging more to UK customers for something download able as they don't need to pay shipping tax. Again I don't know how taxes work in the USA so if someone could explain that would be great Keep the work up macca as someone need to voice the communities negative thoughts about GW

[@39Thebeast]

Wow, thank you macca, fuck games workshop I'm done

[@ThagroshTheProphet]

Fuck me they charge you $60 or a character in Kangaroo land? Dude, you need a new game

[@l.p.8041]

One of your greatest videos yet.

[@amandafranks5108]

it was the 1930's

[@tomdenhollander2289]

sunk cost fallacy, how else can people defend GW especially here in AUS.

[@Chewie260]

hmm, I want to say i feel sorry for you guys outside of the uk, but really if you were getting shit cheaper because no VAT i would be complaining myself so.... tough shit. I dont like the prices either, i am not saying the prices are alright, i do tank models and seriously if a highly detailed tank model in 1/72 costs me 8 pounds i think they can drop the price a bit. Interms of VAT its consfusing because i found 2 different statements, one saying USA applies for the zero-rate but the other saying it has to be an eu VAT registered reseller that it only applies to. www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-exports-dispatches-and-supplying-goods-abroad#overview Anyway TL:DR you are not geting away from shitty eu laws, pricing structure of GW is shit and VAT laws are confusing.

[@marcwittkowski5146]

Please learn the difference between "less" and "fewer"....

[@TheOuterCircle]

Than what will I do? Witch response will make you happy? Their are always smart asses like you.

[@Armarnis]

maybe learn at the same time the difference between there and their. and what is a witch if you meant to say which

[@marcwittkowski5146]

Armarnis, Dude, that was sarcasm/ sass. Don't take everything seriously.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Good, our first catch of the day.

[@Kyusoath]

oh no the poor americans.

[@danwilkinson5239]

If you want the best prices in aus go to mperor.cc they are super cheap do reward points and ship ultra fast I now buy all my gw stuff there interesting my last fw order I didn’t get charged gst so maybe fw are doing the right thing and not double dipping vat and gst

[@markgodfrey9604]

Dude it's a commercial organisation that does not sell a "life dependant" product. If they want to sell things for whatever they want, they can. People don't have to buy it and can vote with their feet. The Australian govt. adds a tax to fuel and then puts the GST on top of the fuel and the original tax in the same way and that's something almost everyone needs. GW is doing what it wants to with little plastic men that people can choose to buy or not buy - when you look at raw sales figures it appears people are choosing to buy - I would recommend that you stop collecting and painting GW products and pick a hobby that doesn't make you feel like you are being ripped off. We need to keep in perspective that companies fail often for overcharging or undercharging on products. If it wasn't working, they would be out of business. Maybe you should start your own company that creates these kinds of products and set your own fair pricing ? or maybe you should start playing another game where you feel like the pricing is better (or keep playing WH with the free rules and another range of miniatures) there are tons of options for how you want to do your hobby !

[@MarneusAndMilkyBlood]

This price gap between countries (which just now becoming a worrying norm when it comes to vidya games) has been in place for quite a while now, my objection would be that GeeDubs Annual Reports talks about sales volume growth (without giving numbers I admit) as well, and puts in perspective the new/old model dichotomy you're showing here asserting a little more than a third of the sales are new models (38% new for 62% old). I'm not a big brain industry and sales guy so maybe it would be more useful if you took a peep at the last available Annual Report ( s19485.pcdn.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/Annual-report-with-cover-final-v.pdf ), I think it's better to use that as a baseline speculation that half baked articles from normie media sources who don't understand shit anyway, even if that report is to be taken with a grain of salt since it's from GeeDubs themselves.

[@MarneusAndMilkyBlood]

They so seem to have some parts regarding taxes and currency exchange rate although it all looks like gibberish to me. Maybe it does answer some of your earlier questions regarding taxes and shit.

[@Darthlicious]

If you don't kitbash your characters, you are the most boring human being in existence

[@maxkennedy8075]

Transport costs, less secure costumer bases in foreign areas extra warehouse costs adds to the cost

[@TheOuterCircle]

3c per box to transport from the UK to Australia. It's not that big a hit. When you see 75% of their revenue is coming in from overseas, that's pretty stable too.

[@deifieddata4462]

Imagine being so invested in a company's failure that you have to spin them doubling their profits into a conspiracy theorist's yarn flowchart. Then imagine operating a YT channel based on one of their properties. That's legit kind of sad. I hope you have something in your life that brings you happiness.

[@TheOuterCircle]

Imagine being a channel that's there to answer questions and bring hard truths. Imagine that people ask you "if they have bad practices, why do they make money?" and when you break it down some smart ass gets on and tries to shame you for doing what your viewers asked of you. Imagine if bringing this to people's attention could help them actually save some money? Imagine all you like.

[@Fireclaws10]

This is an unnecessarily cynical video. Gw have released multiple new products including boxed games and models, have hammered out their codices and attracted a large audience, based on both new and old 40k players to come to 8th edition. They’re expanding their product lineup and maximising their marketing and it’s working.

[@Licmebro]

Rochyan did you not watch the video? If you did watch it again GW shit is not just over priced its inconsistent when compared to other countrys and tax + shipping DOESN'T COST THAT MUCH and shouldn't INCREASE A PRODUCT BY 45%+

[@TheOuterCircle]

This is an unnecessarily cynical video. Gw have released multiple new products including boxed games which recycle older models so little effort is needed in their creation, they're expanding their product line in units of 3 models at double the cost, hammered out index books which Age of Sigmar players got for free, and as for attracted a larger audience, we don't know how many NEW sales they made, only that they made more money.

[@thetwoone100]

Is that you Mr Rountree ?

[@jakkuhl6223]

Rochyan Yeah, and when those codices get updated they'll want me drop a fistful of dollars all over again for it. Same with the main rulebook.

[@joseph-ur2ks]

we get it the pricing of warhammer in upside down land is more expensive you complain about it in every video. in the UK games workshop are doing amazingly compared to what they were

[@TheOuterCircle]

Compared to what they were* They do the bare minimum everyone else does and we should be thankful for that? Interesting.

[@joseph-ur2ks]

maby over there it seem like it but in the uk the customer support and the amount and the quality of new release has drastically improved as well as the vast diversification that they have started to do to include new people in to the hobby i think it is great. yeah prices have gone up... and up... and up never to be seen go down apart from the occasional rare box set deal like renegade knights but i think they have improved a lot and have done alot and worked hard to get GW to the point it is now compared to where it was 10 or evan 5 year ago