Pokemon: Which Gen 1 Starter is TRULY THE BEST? - DeadLock

VOTE: I like Squirtles ► bit.ly/waterpokemon
VOTE: Charmander is lit ► bit.ly/firepokemon
VOTE: Bulbasaur is bae ► bit.ly/grasstype
Nintendo, NO MORE CONSOLES! ►► goo.gl/ym1wKN
Which Pokemon Starter should You Choose? Charmander vs Squirtle. Austin vs MatPat. The SCIENCE! vs Game Theory! This one is going to be epic... and perhaps a little personal. In this episode, two Game Theorists face off as we debate a seemingly simple question: Is Charmander or Squirtle the better Pokemon? It is one of history’s Great Debates, and we will settle it here or reach a Deadlock!
Also note that all sides of the debate are RANDOMLY decided, so the debater may be arguing for a side he or she doesn't agree with. We wanted to keep this as neutral and unbiased as possible. NO HATE!
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[@daltonwhite8300]

We all know that Bulbasaur wasn't in this because it would be the obvious winner First off, Hyper Beam is not the most powerful move in the first generation. Sure, it has the highest base power, but the user has to wait a turn after using it. Bulbasaur can learn the true most powerful moves in the first generation: Leech Seed and Sleep Powder. Leech Seed deals fixed damage to your opponent every turn (regardless of type except Grass) and then heals your Bulbasaur the same amount. Sleep Powder had pretty much 100% accuracy and, unlike in later Pokemon games, it took your Pokemon the entire turn to wake up. This means that if Bulbasaur is faster than your opponent, they don’t get to move at all. To counteract Charizard’s high special stat, Venusaur learns the move growth, which will power up Venusaur’s Razor Leaf attack and its Special Defense at the same time (in the first generation) making Charizard’s special attacks deal less damage. In later games, Bulbasaur can learn Synthesis and Giga Drain, healing more than Charmander can deal out. Thanks to Bulbasaur’s Poison type, it doesn’t have to worry about being poisoned, which is an excellent ability for a tank Pokemon. It also gives it access to the Black Sludge, which allows you to give the Leftovers to another member of your team. When Venusaur mega evolves, its ability Thick Fat reduces Charizard’s STAB attacks. All the while, Leech Seed is sapping away more health from your opponent. Although Charizard learns more HM’s than Venusaur, that doesn’t make it better. That just makes it more “useful” OUTSIDE of battle. And Austin, just because Charmander goes up against Ground types in the beginning of the game doesn’t mean that it gets stronger because of it. It just means that the trainer has to become more skilled, not the Pokemon (that’s not how EV’s work). Although Venusaur is weak to most of your rival’s team when He becomes the champion, you can work around that with sleep powder. Even though it’s not the winner of the popularity contest, it doesn’t mean that Bulbasaur isn’t the best Pokemon. I’m sorry it had to come to this. I got REALLY triggered that Bulbasaur wasn’t even in this, but then again, it would win too easily. #bulbasaurmasterrace

[@kingo5675]

Atticus Finch your right

[@leoxsegura]

yeah u right

[@MercuryA2000]

Atticus Finch had to make it a fair fight

[@aidanmcalevy9913]

Atticus Finch by god, do your duty!

[@CoaMist]

YES DUDE YOUR RIGHT BULBASAUR IS GOOD IT GETS SLEEP POWEDER AND THEN LEACHE SEED AND THEN POISON POWDER OP

[@day7148]

Austin: * brings up the Pokédex * Matpat: * fails to say :if we followed the Pokédex, bulbasaur would win this discussion *

[@sovietrat4973]

exacly

[@dragongaming3215]

Same

[@pzyummer]

and the best called legendary are at the back

[@rmt3589]

What I was thinking!

[@infinityadventures7026]

i agree

[@nickcatt7600]

Dude, bulbasaur is strong against the first 2 gyms, learns leech seed for healing, and gets a dual type from the start, and is SO ADORABLE!

[@nickerhart6510]

He is amazing in current games but in gen 1 he didn't learn any poison attacks that deal direct damage and his grass moves left a lot to be desired as well, coupled with the small move pool his stats weren't suited well for the first 2 gens so he wasn't viable back then.

[@raydygonzalez5714]

Being a gen 1 who was weak to psychic is bad. Gen 1 psychics were OP

[@lightingmcqueen522]

And has a resistance to the third gym and he remind me of my French bulldog 😊

[@kellenknipp955]

BULBASAUR FOR LIIIIIIIIIIFE *smashes pinap berry in face*

[@justmeh6390]

@@raydygonzalez5714 yeah but nobody plays gen 1. Only gen 1 remakes

[@dogfobo7935]

I think you both are forgetting that grass types absolutely demolish rock types. He can literally wipe the floor with most rock types since most of his moves are grass based and on top of that grass types ko water types pretty quickly and he is the only pokemon that can heal while do doing damage that means you literally can not lose with Bulbasaur if you play your cards right and have less time going to shops to buy potions and more time to buy things that can increase damage and learn new moves.

[@Kittycorn1711]

This is a battle for starter Pokemon not all Pokemon

[@devongragg2773]

Austin gets at 16% halfway through the vid, the editors: lets not move that

[@TheRealWoopSlap]

Yeah I noticed that to

[@johnsonjoy4599]

me too

[@dumbkid4ever224]

yes

[@SloppyFishy]

Same

[@thegeneralgamer4921]

It's because they always start off taking of a LOT for randomly things for no reason. Well first 3 minutes not so much, but -10 for being a hipster +0 for recovering from being a hipster (while Matt for +5 for something similar) -10 for shots fired (bc Matt said his argument wasn't a good rebuttal) - 5 for Matt doing a clap and a half - 5 for Matt talking about water another -5 two seconds later bc why not - 9 for Matt talking about other planets not having enough water - 10 for Matt saying water allowed Pokemon to be made - 10 for Matt 'throwing shade' - 10 for speedrunners choosing Squirtle - 10 for scientific article saying Squirtle was the best Most of these aren't actually related to the argument to begin with (e.g. throwing shade), and all of Austin's arguments take 5 points of Matt's score usually. After that it felt like the editors took away points from Matt randomly while usually ignoring Austin's arguments (e.g. doing nothing for Charizard having better stats or knowing hyperbeam), only taking 10 points of Matt after Austin mention 3 valid points, with the 4th being how Charizard knowing 3 HM's, like flying. I could analize this all day but I think you get the point of why the scoring of this debate was just ridiculous lol P.S. not saying Austin/Charizard should win, it just felt like they wanted to take Austin's score down ASAP to make it look like he lost

[@skys6655]

Video: charmander or squirtle Comments: bulbasaur Moms: pikachu?

[@UltraZombie]

Now eevee is a starter

[@fendybendy_]

Bulbasaur

[@anaszia6934]

Dad's : Misty

[@neBen_]

What a meme

[@slevinchannel7589]

Too many Insults with Austin. It's annoying as heck.

[@MiningOrik]

Just realized rewatching this. The entire hyper beam argument is completely useless due to the fact that in gen 3 and before, the main games they are talking about, hyper beam is a physical attack because all normal moves before gen 4 are normal.

[@shaynecarter-murray3127]

I generally find the water type starters to be my favorites.

[@lauramartinez6684]

Same

[@ActuallyMooncake]

Squirtle is cute Oshawott is cute too

[@GoldenArmorYeah]

darn, then we'd argue all the time lol

[@ejokurirulezz]

yes cuz they'remore balanced and there arent any good equivalents to change, while fire is useless since you have flying and fighting which are more important against grass bug steel ice and grass is just grass the most useless type with almost the most weaknesses.

[@GoldenArmorYeah]

@@ejokurirulezz i don't agree with fire being useless. i chose charmander and it wiped almost every gym. i do agree with water types being balanced and grass is actually useless lmao

[@niightmarionne]

"As if no Pokémon were perfect for every situation" Ash Ketchum: Hold my non alcoholic beverage

[@liambaker2215]

Always the Pokemon he picks first. Well other than pikachu but I mean pppppppppffffffffffttttttttt

[@VictorRobotov00]

Always ends with Pikachu though, and is usually wrong for the situation.

[@slevinchannel7589]

Yeah, Speedrunners are definetly not the Best Gamers. That's not what Speedrunning is.

[@VictorRobotov00]

Andrew Mills He was sick that day when fifth grade science class mentioned why this would be a problem.

[@daveertel1704]

@@liambaker2215 If you look at the anime, Ash chose Squirtle first, and then Bulbasaur, and has Charmander as his last choice.

[@loyaltheoristgirl1018]

I feel like Austin is more calm here than in his science videos

[@anonymousperson0]

Especially the one about the most dangerous pokemon move

[@jeonghunoh208]

Yeah in that one he went super saiyan mad. To be fair people always seem mad when they go super saiyan.

[@bigboydinges6043]

Not in original red and blue

[@steelon_the_steelix]

Because he has most of his sanity intact

[@sammy_sand_utubeyt6901]

I couldn’t really tell which one was him and which voice was matpat

[@ofox716]

I always chose bulbasaur. Make the early game simple. And by time you need other main types you can easily catch something that fits the bill.

[@proskills5089]

Bulbasaur is underrated but I I chosse Charmander anyways

[@giberishbog7421]

Always fire. Usually easier to level up early game which means you can get more moves in later game, you can also always go back and level up just because you want to be even more overpowered

[@Postalguy2]

Bulbasaur is the only starter with two types in the beginning

[@Dannyackafool]

@@Postalguy2 But Grass and Water types are a dime a dozen in Pokémon , the only early game fire types I remember are the Ponyta in Platinum You can easily find a grass type early game like , oddish or Budew, and water types like Magikarp and Slowpoke

[@codabrewer2164]

The level speed is quickest with bubersaur not charmader

[@helium6364]

This looks like when the 2 smart kids in class argue which answer in the test is right.

[@Xman34washere]

and the Bulbasaur nerds are the smarter kid

[@nr1wartortlefan]

and the third kid just watching knowing they are both wrong

[@hantehagamoto1122]

and then the quiet kid just quietly pulling out his desert eagle

[@Lamprophis1]

I'm the third kid in that oh so many times it's great

[@hantehagamoto1122]

@@Lamprophis1 ikr

[@Sarah_Kay]

You guys forgot: In Gen 1 (Until Yellow) Charizard cannot learn any flying moves. At all. Not even Fly.

[@nyxmoonveil025]

Dean Baris Kudos for remembering. XD

[@Sarah_Kay]

Looks like you also forgot that in Japan, the first games in the series were Pokemon Red and Green, Pokemon Blue was the updated version that fixed a huge plethora of bugs present in Pokemon Red and Green (Still didn't fix that pesky Charizard not being able to learn a single Flying move though). That's why when the remakes were made, Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green were created, they didn't make a Water Blue because there literally wasn't a reason.

[@Sarah_Kay]

Also, if you DO want to throw in Bulbasaur, and for some reason resort to talking about the final evolutions, Venusaur can learn Sleep Powder and Toxic, which alone is a decent combo. It also has the ability to learn SolarBeam, which leaves it open for a turn, sure, but if the opponent is asleep, that leaves you quite vulnerable for an attack, especially with how waking up from sleep worked in Gen 1. On top of that, SolarBeam does extra damage because of the STAB bonus (And weakness to grass from Blastoise). Though this doesn't mean much to Charizard, since it's strong to Grass type moves, there is one clutch that should not be ignored, and that's the fact that in Gen 1 Special Attack and Special Defense didn't exist, but instead there existed "Special", which combined both stats. Considering this fact, Blastoise and Charizard are actually tied at 85 in both special stats, while Venusaur reigns supreme at 100. Charizard can attack first, sure; but if it's attack doesn't take down Venusaur (Which might happen, especially when you consider the fact that Venusaur has the highest base HP stat of all 3 at 80, and also that the strongest Fire-Based move is Flamethrower with a base attack of 95) and in that same first turn Venusaur actually puts Charizard to sleep, the chances are very high it may be game.

[@Sarah_Kay]

That's also true, meaning you have a lot of different combinations. I went with Sleep Powder as an option, since putting an opponent to sleep is always a good thing, especially considering when a pokemon wakes up from sleep in Gen 1 they still can't do anything that turn, meaning you could spam Sleep Powder again, and Toxic because the damage done at the end of the turn increases after every turn (Something really bad when you consider Sleep)

[@Sarah_Kay]

D'oh!! Not even I knew that!

[@Triscraft]

poor Bulbasaur.. they did my starter dirty, i'll just sit in the corner quietly destroying everything solo with my buddy

[@futuristicllama7124]

you forgot that bulbasaur has like so many skills. gym 1:rockgrass and then prob koba(that his name??) poison=poison. then sabrina and that means poison> psychic ( i think), then well your gyarados will kill Blaine and then grass = oof to Geovanni( i always forget gen 1 names T_T

[@futuristicllama7124]

ALSOBULBASAUR IS HALF POISON SO YA

[@ejokurirulezz]

grass>electric? in which gen? grass just resists electric. also psychic>poison, while squirtle, 1st gym water>rock/ground 2nd gym bellsprout/oddish depending onversion or wartortle with bite on the remakes, 3rd gym you know dig ground>electric. 4th gym ice beam ice>grass. 5thgym gen 1 dig ground>poison. 6th gym bite on the remakes dark>psychic (gen 1 had no weaknesses), 7th gym water>fire 8th gym water>ground. way more superior. bulbasaur has no use after the 2nd gym

[@thelightgamer1324]

austin: Charizard has a major stat boost over Blastoise PIc: shows literally 4 more stat points

[@hackercow211]

Yeah lol

[@SloppyFishy]

Yep

[@kohinoorbanerjee4009]

That is nearly the same as chansey's massive attack stat

[@ginshin8246]

@@kohinoorbanerjee4009 and oranberry Blissey.

[@wolfsilver6304]

Remember when I first watched this debate, I was sure it was Squirtle; turns out, after Jrose11 has uploaded all of the starter runs, it's Bulbasaur!

[@calcalchan]

👍🏼

[@sotgian]

If you think about it in both games and anime the two first gyms are Brock and Misty so bulbasaur can wipe them easily as well as later on the psychic gym because it can learn poison moves through tms or by level though it is mostly poison powder I think so it's better having yourself a ghost or sth then eventually you can wipe Giovanni as he is ground

[@shrubs2756]

Matpat: Bulbasaur is trash Bulbasaur Who is super effective against the first two gyms and resists the third: 👁👄👁

[@solidwater4175]

Mom: Son we need more salt! Me: Okay mom! Me: *Goes to comment section*

[@GbfhTime]

If you have never had a Mega Venusaur with thick fat tanking all your attacks slowly killing you with toxic/ leech seed and healing itself with synthesis... well you have never felt true despair.

[@whyisleohere]

Mega charzard y gets drought and massive special attack so an overheat or a fire blast would burn mega venasaur up even if it has thick fat

[@joethetotallord9505]

GbfhTime but only one can truely beat blastoise

[@makari4376]

The Notorious Makaveli obviously you haven't played against it mega venusuar is often specially defensive and tanks the heck out of fire blast

[@bboybad6807]

The Notorious Makaveli matpat u could of done 3 person deadlock #BULBASAURLIVESMATTER

[@pedrogb512]

SO TRUE

[@AdamIDK]

This is not talking about which is best in the game. The two are just arguing on which element is more important to humanity.

[@jessieschesser7047]

I always go with Charmander as my starter, I find a Pikachu to add to my team. Venusaur for my grass type and garadose for my water type. I tend to also have an onyx. Depending on how I'm building my team, I typically have several other I can switch out for the rest of my team.

[@landresking3988]

You can’t grow weed on a charmanders or squirtles back 🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️🤷🏾‍♂️

[@tiggerdaking5378]

U just changed me mind from Charizard to venosaur

[@forkmuffin8954]

Bro Oddish has weed on it's back from the beginning

[@samwhite2803]

Which is why turtwig is obviously the best!

[@mvs0n_207]

ditto can change to any pokeman so you have aal the weed you want

[@daveertel1704]

Yes, but you can grow cannons on Squirtle, especially now that Blastoise's gmax was revealed, and is a fortress with so many cannons on him

[@ThatMarisaPerson]

Except Bulbasaur is super effective against the first two gyms, resists the third one, by the time you get to Erika, which Bulbasaur can still beat because it's part poison but most of the stuff in there is part poison anyways, but by the time you get there you'll probably have other Pokémon to deal with Bulbasaur's weaknesses, also in Gen 1 Toxic and Leech Seed stacked very well. Toxic damage doubles each turn and it also doubles the damage of Leech Seed, which will recover HP to help its evolution Venusaur tank even better. Not related to that, but Hyper Beam was physical until Gen 4, so Charizard isn't gonna make much use of it, not to mention the debut of Stealth Rock in Gen 4, Charizard's Nightmare

[@slavkei]

Reactions to Stealth Rock: Blastoise: "Huh, did someone put abrasives in my shower again?" Venusaur: "Hehe, that tickles." Charizard: *Agonized, tortured screaming, including vomiting up blood*

[@kennethM]

LucarioTube leech seed and toxic was my combo. I loved it.

[@TheGeladoo]

slavkei Reactions to Ember: Charizard: "Heh, that tickles" Venusaur: **is ded** Reactions to Absorb: Charizard: "Lol that barely took life from me" Blastoise: **is ded** You can do that with any super effective move... In the beginning of the game you can also capture Caterpie, that evolves really early (lv 10) in Butterfree and learn Confusion, and you can also capture Mankey, who has a lot of Fight moves. They can both be used for defeating Brock and Misty.

[@dyanilarson936]

LucarioTube I used bulbasaur and metapod to anhilate the first gym.

[@RokuroCarisu]

+TheGeladoo In Red/Blue, you couldn't get Mankey until after leaving Cerulean City. Nidorans also learned Double Kick at _level 43._ If you had a Charmander, Butterfree really was the only easy way to beat Brock. Misty not so much, because Starmie resists Psychic moves.

[@LunarWolfPiggy]

Watching this for the first time in 2021 and hearing Pat say that he's looking forward to the next season of Game of Thrones made my brain glitch a little bit

[@hidupbaru4012]

Charmander deafeted by squirtle and squirtle defeated by bulbasaur it's always a cycle

[@kevinsupreme_ph36yearsago59]

Austin: more science & documentaries Matpat: more realistic theorist.

[@daveertel1704]

Matpat: shows statistics and proof of Squirtle being superior to charmander. Austen: talks about myths and other totally non-related real world things such as steam engines, which are powered by WATER(i.e. Squirtle), and uses that as why charmander is better. Matpat: Destroys austins evidence. Austen: Ok, nobody cares about charmander, lets talk about why Charizard is better than Squirtle(a fist-stage evolution that still crushes Charizard)

[@daltonprince3580]

@@daveertel1704 I mean you could argue solar beam after gen 1 combined with sunny day.

[@TheDaltonius]

It seems that I shall choose bulbasaur as it seems that bulbasaur is too good to even defend or argue about

[@maxdragon5043]

question: -fire or water? the entire coment section: -GRasS

[@terraSpark902]

What do you expect this place is full of people who play pokemon

[@Chanceogal]

GRASSSS

[@TheCrimsonClub]

😂🐒🐵

[@squishydolphin5133]

Bulbsuar has leech seed tho.

[@Chanceogal]

Bulbasaur is the most annoying to fight because of sleep powder poison powder and stun spore

[@Ironmat98]

I think the editors forgot to decrease austin's life half way

[@OfficerGex]

*kicks door in* Bulbasaur *walks backward through the broken doorway*

[@gun2424]

8:58 Based on the context of this video it would actually be Bulbasaur since he’s the “weakest” (I love you Bulbasaur)

[@SoyBeanzz]

lol

[@shirokuuhaku1379]

MatPat : Charmander vs Squirtle Comments : Bulbasaur

[@tealmagicmoon480]

exactly what happened

[@hunyolima9849]

Charmander

[@genocidebob3273]

Shiro Kuuhaku \charmander\won

[@msebush]

Charmander didn't win.

[@Sayyar615]

Um if you do mathimatics squrtle is the best i agree with matpat

[@craigswanson8630]

The best part is when they got to who would win out of 100 battles i got a commercial that gave me the answer before the video did. Thank you Fiji water lol

[@chriso0015]

I find that each starter is the best in their own particular niches. -Bulbasaur is the best strategic choice for a play through in Kanto. -Squirtle is the optimal choice for Pokémon Red and Blue speed runs. (Kind of ironic now that I think about it considering it’s a turtle) -Charmander (at least now) is the most competitively viable in Pokémon battles as Charizard.

[@chriso0015]

Also, Matt really missed a killer point by mentioning that Charizard cannot learn fly in gen 1

[@dapperraptor8789]

“*CHARIZARD IS A BEAST IN THE LATE GAME*” Sheath rock: that’s a nice dragon you got there it would be a shame if I were send it in uu for the next 4 generations

[@dapperraptor8789]

Tasted?

[@DygresywnyWilk]

Wow you know why competitive players use stealth rock? Cause they can't use healing items that's why it's a great move, additional damage that you can't recover. And seriously stealth rock? Which NPC use stealth rock? Two minor NPC and Lance I think, Blizzard for Blastoise, crying for Charizard

[@OSoverspike]

Otherwise we need that defog to help

[@MrCat73]

Bruh

[@gorgilovesbasketball8251]

literally, nobody currently uses Blastoise in competitive right now. It's all Charizard and Venusaur but nice try

[@DogPerson626]

“Easily the cutest one of eevee’s possible evolutions.” *stabs in umbreon*

[@riahchan]

umbreon and espion are tied for my faves

[@MARSHTMP]

Actually umbreon gets the cools

[@iseeyouineverystar]

umbreon is the edgy one while sylveon is the cute one, in my opinion

[@iloveyou-yg4yh]

Clearly vapeoreon and flareon

[@Lokkix]

Leafeon is my favourite

[@nickerhart6510]

Oak puts it the best with how he describes the Pokémon when you first choose, bulbasaur is easy mode as he let's you breeze through the first 2 gyms collecting a more rounded team on the way, squirtle is medium as he is generally useful through different spots in the game, and charmander will struggle a lot in the early parts but does become very strong at the end. In my opinion Squirtle is the most consistently useful throughout the game. He is able to sweep through brock, blane, giovani, Koga (the Nido lines are his best pokemon and they are ground types) and Bruno. He is also the only one to learn ice moves which were the only way to easily defeat Lance in gen 1. He only struggles in 2 spots, Lt. Surge and Erika but by the time you reach Lt. Surge you will have been handed dig which his line can learn and you can also buy ice beam to deal with Erika in her city.

[@arsteel2388]

Whoa that's the time travel portal graphic from Chrono Trigger

[@applerat4263]

well going back to pokedex as austan said charmander was before squirtle well while charmander is before squirtle bulbusaur is before both of them.

[@tanyah5013]

Your right

[@toddfisher3554]

Its so crazy coming back to this in 2021 and seeing baby Austin and pre dad-bod MatPat 😂

[@nidus8175]

Yeah I just decided to revisit this and it’s crazy seeing how much everyone has changed.

[@josephcirrincone9596]

RIGHT?!?!

[@TheRomanEmpire222]

Me in 2022: I am four parallel universes ahead of you.

[@imaperson2009]

Me in 2024: SEEING THE END OF MATPAT!?

[@cutekittenlady]

Charizards most popular, with maybe Blastoise in the middle, but leaving aside competitive play, and limiting ourselves to the gen 1 games, Bulbasaur is mechanically the best starter for a playthrough both because it has advantage in the first two gyms and continue to have pretty decent mechanical moves after that. Beyond that there are still some pretty decent fire type pokemon in the likes the arcanine or ninetales, and a sheer plethora of water type pokemon that can fill Blastoises role. Ultimate it depends on what you want your teams balance to be like.

[@haydentang3981]

If I were to defend Charmander, I would just say, “Charizard beat blastoise in Pokémon origins.” That’s all I need

[@supersavvy9998]

Isn't it old news that Bulbasaur is the most useful of the Kanto starters? He's effective against first, second and eighth gym and resists the third, fourth and fifth gym. I thought the pokemon community proved ages ago that Bulbasaur=easy mode, Squirtle=medium difficulty and Charmander=hard mode.

[@Cheezmonka]

Gen 2 even tells you something similar with those starters, Chikorita being easy and Totodile being hard

[@ericszepietowski5156]

actaully i put squirtle at hard, bulba stays easy and charmander at medium because if u have the right move set charmander can counter all rock/earth types and bulba can one shot rock/earth. Squirtle is at hard because he has many more weaknesses. including earth, grass, electric

[@jamestran7209]

It's actually ground type and squirtle isn't weak to ground.

[@mattmartin4999]

Super Savvy preach my brother

[@RammaLee03]

Bulbasaur gets less attention than it deserves

[@waifu27]

nah i think it sucks lol

[@Green_Cumulon]

Because it's awful, I only used bulbasaur once in my many playthroughs because it I wanted to play the game with the most difficulty

[@V-Jes]

Stat wise in the original bad gen 1 games venusaur easily has the best stats of the 3 when charizards highest stat is only 100 speed while blastoises is 100 defense while both only had bad 85 special stat (that means both special attack and special defense for the newbies) while venusaur has 100 making it bulkier and harder hitting than those 2 while venusaur can easily abuse the broken gen 1 mechanics, while those maybe fixed in gen 2 but its the original gen 1 games where most people go back to using these instead of the superior remakes what are harder to find these days thanks to virtual console on 3ds having the originals.

[@loganolson3968]

But where's pikachu for gen 1 starters?

[@abnernyx]

Kaden Ramm Bulby is a cutie pie But that's all it has going for it 😕😕

[@neonpenguin0948]

I have never chosen charmander in my Pokémon fire red game boy cartridge on my Nintendo DS lite. I always chose bulbasaur because... I’m not actually sure. I think I just likes grass the most and I still do and also he can learn cut so...idk. I have played that game a dozen times and I have just recently tries using squirtle.

[@fiendishsoul6730]

Hi, I'm from the future to tell you that in pokemon go, Mega venusaur has the highest cp cap between the 3 starters and in the latest game that the 3 are playable in(pokemon sword and shild). venusaur has both damage and deffence going for him as well as a more varied move pool, not to mention it's the only one who can put you to sleep, poison, and paralyze. Lastly, Bulbasaur is frog, Bulbasaur and its evolutions are partially based on arboreal (tree-living) frogs belonging to Hylidae (tree frogs) and Dendrobatidae (poison dart frogs).

[@jinjoo7092]

Ok but we all know bulbasaur is the best. Reasons are simple: First, he's definitely the best for the first couple of gyms, but also he evolves to be a pretty powerful and useful pokemon Second, he's the best grass pokemon to have in Kanto, so why would I get the fire or water starter when I basically don't want a bellsprout or oddish in my team but would definitely take a seadra or gyarados along with a ninteales or arcanine in my team? No reason to not choose bulbasaur.

[@09Drdray]

Tbf, eggegutor has a higher special stat than venusaur and better defence and hp. Only downside is its terrible speed. SO, if you're really needing a grass type...

[@loromc7]

@09Drday the thing is you can’t get eggedutor til the safari zone more then half way through the game and venusaur has less weakness (4) then eggedutor (7)

[@amandamacdonald2754]

EMBOR LOOKS COOLER THAN THIS THING

[@bbfan84]

The palm three and upsidedown flower thingy are better than bulbs my dude

[@justiceuponus3766]

@@loromc7 why would you even need any grass type in gen 1 or gen 3?

[@spagettifork8916]

Charmander: weak to the first two gyms Squirtle: strong to the first gym then weak to the next two Bulbasaur: beats the first three gyms with ease Who wins now?

[@travisbeard24]

riley dennison yes! #teambulbasaur

[@8bithavok]

Bulbasaur: Beginner Squirtle: Novice Charmander: Expert

[@megaprotoman39]

riley dennison bulbasaur struggles with the elite 4 and has a type disadvantage against Blue while squirtle rarely struggles with blue and Charizard struggles a bit the games hard and bulbasaur struggles when he becomes final while blastoise and Charizard don't struggle as much just because you are good that the beginning dosen't mean you are good overall

[@JetstreamGW]

Bulbasaur, in fact, has type advantage over more gyms than either of the other two. That said, Squirtle is the best. For emotional reasons. And because until Fire Red/Leaf Green, Charmander sucked until... like... the fourth gym? Fifth?

[@mr.landen5096]

riley dennison ikr

[@gio_wuz_here]

13:29 is where things got weird and just plain old funny

[@cyrusambrose4547]

While I prefer Squirtle I will say I'm confused why Mat brought up the primordial nature of water as requisite for life and it was not rebutted with the Sun (effectively a mass of fire) being needed for the Earth, with its water, to form to begin with.

[@BecauseYNotYT]

Not changing the format a little bit to fit 3 host one for each of the 3 starters was a mistake.

[@floyd2386]

Definitely. It needed to be mentioned that of the 3, Bulbasaur is the wisest choice to have early in the game when you haven't caught as many Pokemon and want to have an edge over Brock and Misti.

[@disappointedcucumber]

no they didnt have a third host

[@geekygecko1849]

I agree. This was worth a format change

[@spritedude3331]

Well, if bulbasaur was in it, there would be less minutes on it.

[@atdynax]

You forgot that Blastoise can learn Ice moves.

[@renzofranco2210]

easy win

[@atdynax]

@@lizettecruz9409 Your point here? Seems like you don't know what you're talking about.

[@Vishwamdamor7109]

@@lizettecruz9409 are you freakin serious?? Blastoice is water type

[@debjanidebnath7611]

@@lizettecruz9409 what the heck

[@ahmedaswad1132]

Haha my brother was wrong!

[@Tirath]

Growing up with 2 brothers and a link cable, this question was never a problem for me.

[@wesley-zl6gf]

BULBASAUUR! At it's 1st stage, it is already a grass AND POISON TYPE! When it evolves to Venasaur, it can also learn good moves like Solar Beam, and the cooldown can be shortened by Sunny Day! It can even learn Sludge Bomb and also learn some psychic moves, if i'm not wrong! And ALSO, it can learn the AWESOME MOVE SYNTHESIS! Which allows it to heal HALF OF ITS HP! As well, HYPER BEAM, as Austin said, was a GOOD MOVE! And also AWESOME Grass moves like Petal Dance and Petal Blizzard that can deal INCREDIBLE amounts of damage!

[@deepdishattack]

6 minutes in and they didn't even talk about Pokemon yet in the debate.

[@stan2139]

It's more about "The element of my Pokémon was more useful to humans than yours, it means it's a better pokémon".

[@Lytbringr0]

I always chose Bulbasaur. He was resistant or strong against EVERY gym but Blaine's, Razor leaf for crits at 27, and with sleep powder/stun spore he was a good choice for catching other mons. Charmander was my close second. I never picked Squirtle because water types are EVERYWHERE and some of them like Lapras and Cloyster were superior choices because of their dual-typing.

[@Name12343]

don't forget starmie, especially in gen 1

[@BlueLemonade144]

Lytbringr Team Venusaur! Besides he's better in stats wise too! He's bulky while not sacrificing HP and SPD. Mega Venusaur has 2 weaknesses Psychic and Flying. His Sp. Def is too high to make Psychic damage lethal. Same goes for Flying. He's faster than Blastoise and Can survive Blizzard(If it hits) and deal another hard hitting Grass type move in return. He has OutRage for Charizard X. And he Has Hyper Beam to shave Damage to Charizard Y. Plus he has less weakness in Gym Battles and Elite Four. I always chose Venusaur as my Starter.

[@tatoruboyo7082]

In indigo league, orange islands, and gold and silver bulbasaur helps ash the most with saving Pokémon with its vine whip. In his battles his razor lead also cuts through opponents (depending on type ofc,) and it’s a very fierce warrior, not to mention its cute as anything

[@drewc5576]

That Game of Thrones excitement didn’t age well lol

[@t3rrablox582]

The comments: Yes but technically [Pokemon] can do this thing, proving that it can clearly defeat [Pokemon] Me choosing Squirtle: *I like turtles* :)

[@miraculousmongoose2110]

And there me who was introduced to Pokémon via SSBU and got a love of Squirtle because the only other pokémon I saw that was cuter was Jigglypuff. And I still stand by that.

[@wowis521]

I like train

[@hawtyboi]

Actually venusaur is the best but i just like squirtle

[@ethanlikesturtles3426]

Hi

[@super_pro1000alt]

And i like trains 🚂 🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃🚃

[@aninkuriakose3207]

Damn I was expecting bulbasaur to come out of no where and destroy both of them

[@wolveslife5038]

The Random Ninja me too XD bc bulbasaur can destroy the turtle I can’t spell his name plus blubasaur is a poison and grass sometimes I think I am a Pokémon nerd 🤓

[@curtis5062]

Midnight Wolf And yet you can spell “squirtle”

[@gabeske1711]

Bulbasaur is strategically better and has a variety of 3 different types of moves it can use, Grass, Bug, And in some cases ground or rock

[@eg7452]

Me too

[@saltyselkie3263]

Yea who wouldn't want an adorable creature like bulbasaur, plus it's a poison type so... Yeah.

[@23Fists]

Talks about speed affecting crit, a gen 1 exclusive, albeit impossible to avoid, 'glitch' & then special defense, something which was gen 2 onward due to the special stat being split into special attack and special defense for gold silver crystal and every generation since. I dislike the inconsistency as to when you are referencing, and I have to continue to agree with my water starter bias. Besides, anyone battling with more than one pokemon is likely going to be switching out against unfavorable matchups.

[@chrisbenson1991]

I was always a "Bulbubuddie" lol 😆

[@leonline4931]

Strategically bulbasaur is the best but im a charmander guy Edit: I used bulbasaur in lets go and omg i loved it. I named it bubasuar

[@eliasmckinney383]

👍

[@RHW42Archangel]

i picked charmander in pokemon go and named him CharCharBinx

[@hi-wr3pm]

i named mine bulba fett courtasey of hishe

[@gun2424]

I always named mine petals but at the fourth gym accidentally deleted my save progress...

[@thedonationgodwazzup6966]

Same

[@ark.d3935]

you should’ve mentioned bulbasaur's number in the pokedex

[@loromc7]

Yes

[@LCBFandub]

Lmao

[@Dan-sr9xp]

Wow

[@ekimolaos]

Should have* There's no "should of". Stop that disgusting thing please...

[@Mega-rw8mt]

I was thinking the same thing also i thought charizard couldn't even LEARN fly in red and blue

[@pacoramon9468]

Venosaur being the best of the 3 in competitive: I'm a joke to you?

[@dudemakememes878]

Every pro pokemon trainer be like: IT'S BULBASAUR IT CAN DEFEAT THE FIRST 2 GYM!!!!!!

[@notheatedge5750]

There are so many things wrong regarding about the Charmander line that my silly fingers couldn't resist. Let's start off by stating most fully evolved Pokemon can learn Hyper Beam, so that's nothing special. As for types, Charizard is actually weak to Ice-type moves in Gen 1. It's also worth mentioning that pure Water-type is a great defensive type in spite of not having an immunity whereas Charizard is very weak to Rock-type moves and it serves more as an offensive Pokemon. As for HM moves, Charizard doesn't even learn Fly until Yellow. Now for the main point: In Gen 1, special attack stat doesn't exist. Instead, the special stat calculates how much a Pokemon can deal damage and take damage from special moves. And Charizard special stat happens to be 85 in Gen 1, which became its special defense. As all Normal-type are classified as physical until Gen 4 introduced the physical/special split, Hyper Beam is actually a physical move here. And the fact that Hyper Beam's accuracy being higher than Hydro Pump doesn't really matter when the move requires the Pokemon to recharge when it hits unless Hydro Pump misses twice in a row. Also, why bring up Hyper Beam in the first place? With a few exceptions, you don't see Normal-type attack on non Normal-type Pokemon.

[@amandaahn2959]

true!!!!!!!

[@-Anemr-]

Point made.

[@dylenzymour6993]

Holy moly dats long

[@stnelyre8463]

don't forget that charizard can't learn fly in gen 1

[@notheatedge5750]

I did say Charizard can't learn fly until Yellow.

[@tsukinoke7379]

3:46 when your walking around with charmander all your saying is “why won’t you evolve already”

[@Lelebees]

UUUGH i regret my charmander run

[@sabrinamiller3823]

Professor Oak warns you about this when you go to pick it. "Charmander grows slowly. You must be patient with it" despite the fact that all 3 of them evolve at at lv. 16

[@xTriton_]

*Charizard:* Has a higher base stat total, 2 Mega Forms both of which outclass Mega Blastoise, Is more fan beloved. *Blastoise:* Is usually better without Mega forms, is better of a choice in generation 1 because of type advantages early game giving you more time to pick new team members, is nowadays appreciated more because Charizard gets a lot of underserved attention.

[@ejokurirulezz]

both of which outclass mega blastoise? hahaha that made me laugh. all it needs is a rock slide or a dragon pulse with mega launcher and that pitiful excuse of a pokemon named charizard is obliterated while charizard only y can hurt blastoise really with solarbeam since drought (if it managed to survive a quad weakness rock slide.

[@SwagKing999]

The coolest/my favorite of the three/most popular/Go Team Sky! is Charmander. The most useful in real life is Squirtle. The most useful in game is Bulbasaur. So that is four points for Charmander and Squirtle and Bulbasaur each have one. Let’s give Charmander one more point for being able to pick up the others and drop them on a mountain, breaking the plant on the back and the shell. Enjoy your retirement MatPat! We will miss you!

[@Redacted_Ruler]

(Bulbasaur gets left out) Bulbasaur:am I a joke to you

[@_guy123]

Therulerkai Game Theory: (Plankton Voice) *YES!!!*

[@CyberCy2]

Yes sorry but yes

[@mysticshadow780]

Therulerkai YES

[@no-bw3qv]

Thank you

[@chancefletcher9826]

Yes yes you are

[@themainmelodyanimator8939]

I-I chose Bulbasaur and we destroyed the competition..

[@Lytbringr0]

I always chose Bulbasaur. He was resistant or strong against EVERY gym but Blaine's, Razor leaf for crits at 27, and with sleep powder/stun spore he was a good choice for catching other mons. Charmander was my close second. I never picked Squirtle because water types are EVERYWHERE and some of them like Lapras and Cloyster were superior choices because of their dual-typing.

[@skull_lee]

One word for Bulbasaur SLEEP POWDER

[@idk-lf3dh]

There is only one right answer Bulbasaur Need I say more

[@Korajiyo]

The first real argument: 7:45 You made me watch 7 minutes of irrelevant chatter...

[@19toast97]

THANK YOU!

[@smurfaderp6418]

thanks for the heads up. Now the question is do I bother watching...

[@snugglemuffins762]

Missed Lethal THANK YOU SO MUCH! I was 3 minutes in wondering when it would actually start

[@donald2209]

Missed Lethal, ya play league of legends?

[@jaiden406]

Professor Oak- "you can pick charmander the fire type, bulbasaur the grass or Squirtle the water type" Ash- >:/ "I CHOOSE PIKACHU" :D Every other trainer - >:|

[@annaradford6752]

Jaiden Hammond He was too late to get charmander squritle and blubsaur so he got pikachu - yellow oak walk in grass to catch a wild pikachu. :p

[@cjkavy2299]

Anna Radford blubsaur

[@annaradford6752]

Cjkavy very much yes

[@GlobalDesignHD]

why tf is this a top comment 0.o

[@vasilenasokolova1037]

Charmander because although having a pokèmon that can evolve into a giant turtle with canons coming out of its shell is pretty "god damn awesome", having a pokèmon that can evolve into a fire breathing beast that literally looks like a dragon , despite not being a dragon type and can also fly you around the sky.

[@timgalivan2846]

How does bulbasaur get counted out from a popularity contest? Where's the data matt pat? THE DATA!

[@ben_RS]

Austin forgot that while charmander is before squirrel in the pokedex, bulbasaur is before charmander

[@delta816]

Ben Allegue who I'd squirrel

[@N3v3Off]

12:07 chramander is higher in pokedex so its more important than squirtle? well i guess than bulbasaur is the truly most important pokemon of the entire franchise according to national dex

[@micheallark7042]

N everoff of course! Bulb await is our lord and savior!

[@superhbros1403]

N everoff well yes so he's more important than the god of Pokémon

[@matthewbackman9085]

N everoff that's exactly what I was thinking

[@cresbot]

N everoff if we want to include other games, Victini is #000

[@FinalCalamity1]

cresbot He did include other games. He said the national dex, which includes every pokemon in the game.

[@derekcampbell2686]

Bulbasaur in gen 1 is the best. Toxic and leechseed were stored on the same location on the cartridge. Which causes them to both stack on toxic’s worsening gimmick. Razor leaf was a stab boosted almost guaranteed critical hit 55 base power grass move. Venasaur. Bodyslam, growth, or sleep for powder for the 4th move. Charizard didn’t become useful until after gen 2 with the special stat and split. Blastiose at least could have surf, Icebeamn, bodyslam/confusion, earth quake

[@williamklemp3764]

It never mattered who won or lost, because i will always choose my little candle-lizard.

[@bluestormingdragon7716]

bulbasaur is #1 in pokedex .... so he beats both by Austins logic

[@Whoohoonutty2020]

Yes yes yes ,Oh my God

[@austinp8192]

Correct!

[@cesardiazjr8233]

Bluestormingdragon I thought you the same thing

[@ironycat5897]

That's what I also tought !

[@adamboswell7708]

I agree

[@arvin7007]

*Sighs* Well I guess i'll leave with my Bulbasaur.

[@kanvt]

Andrew Arias Don't leave your bulbasuar its good if it has lech seed and toxic.They didn't even put bulbasuar in the video other than saying it sucks but they didn't say why it sucked and also they didn't know that grass beat water.

[@arvin7007]

I know I'm just disappointed that it was left out.

[@uhhh._.5171]

Elite Summon lol he/she didn't say they will leave bulbasaur, he/she said they will leave WITH their bulbasaur, indicating he/she chose bulbasaur.

[@boringblaziken8122]

bulbasaur is by far the best it gives you a huge advantage against the first two gyms and you cant get poisoned by the third gym and once bulbasaur is at a disadvantage there are other options

[@kohinoorbanerjee4009]

Fun fact: although squirtle learns more HMS than charmander and bulbasaur, it can get the least way through the game, as it can't learn cut

[@kingdomofbird8174]

Can't learn a useless (in battle) move

[@lucasskinner966]

Although Bulbasaur wasn't the best starter in Red & Blue, it's technically the best starter in FireRed and LeafGreen.

[@imperialguard5599]

Oh Bulbasaur is still the best in R&B due to Toxic and Leech Seed stacks, thus restoring more health each turn.

[@lucasskinner966]

Yeah but how many Grass moves can it learn in R & B?

[@imperialguard5599]

Quite a few, vine whip, razor leaf, solar beam, synthesis. Compared to Charmander with basically only Ember until very late levels.

[@Luke-lq9rn]

Yep lol.

[@BulbasaurPropaganda]

Razor Leaf 100% critical, Toxic + Leech Seed glitch, Body Slam, Sleep Powder plus the highest special stats out of the three which means highest offense and defense stats. What's more do you want?

[@leahdigiacomo5463]

What am I doing with my life? It's 1am and here I am watching 2 grown men fight about bubble turtles and fire lizards Also Bulbabuddies where you at?!

[@unboxingpencils5572]

*bulbasaur uses sleep powder

[@leahdigiacomo5463]

@@unboxingpencils5572 IT'S SUPER EFFECTIVE

[@unboxingpencils5572]

Yeah

[@LynseyAshleyLos]

BULBABUDIES!

[@cheetahgamer5684]

O my god im awake at 1 am to

[@juanpark6107]

me when I know how much HP their left on by the end of the video: BIG BRAIN

[@the_best_sno0ze848]

they forgot about gen 1 and based the info off of gen four and up (after the physical special split)

[@foxtrotalpha7119]

This is the nerdiest fight I’ve ever seen😂

[@danielpersson6098]

YuP.

[@louguthrie1677]

*Yes*

[@Jonixmusic64]

Hi welcome to deadlock

[@mr.duckington8768]

Lol yah.

[@joseamador3403]

If this is the nerdiest fight you ever seen wait when it comes to the best legendary good all statistics abilities and math :).

[@samkoning1341]

So my friend apparently thinks he chose Snorlax for his starter as a kid.... Help him....

[@jonsern9881]

Sam Koning Tell your friend he's a liar

[@samkoning1341]

Jonsern I told him way too many times... He kinda hates me now

[@jenniferredding3316]

maybe he played the 2nd pokémon ranger lol

[@sapphiremoon9528]

He clearly has a hole in his education. GIVE HIM LESSON BY A PURE BLOODED POKE MASTER, MY FRIEND!!!

[@SnorlaxKing-oz8ee]

Sam Koning rip but I like Snorlax

[@AriaSerif]

Charmander line might be my favorite (because fire type) but the Squirtle line definitely has the advantage. As for Bulbasaur, it's kinda in between the two.

[@heatwave3460]

I feel like bulbasaur would've won because 1. He's the only starter that begins with a 2nd typing poison 2. He known for his many Static effective moves such as stun spore, sleep powder, poison powder, leach seed 3. even though though grass is weak to the fire and flying type Charizard he definitely can stall his health with sleep powder, leach seed, the extra damaging move while asleep and maybe protect when he's awake

[@ourgloriousleader3656]

*Ladies and gentleman welcome to Deadlock* Me: *I thought we were watching gane theory*

[@MikanIkusaba]

same lol

[@TeamPlant]

Gane teory?

[@daveertel1704]

This is a debate version of game theory where they do the same thing as a regular theory, but does it against someone else theorizing

[@MrPokemonmastah]

Ok, for the Bulbasaur fans, here's an argument that PROVES Bulbasaur is subjectively the best starter-mon out there. Let's start with history; water was present since the beginning of the Earth's life cycle, and is required to live today, while fire was discovered being controlled roughly 600,000 years ago, plants were dated back to around 700 million years ago, 694,400,000 years before controlled fire, and similar to water, was required for herbavoresnd also being the main part of all the regions in all of Pokemon. Next is popularity; in the competitive scene, there are 8 tiers. From the highest tier to the lowest tier, it goes uber, OverUsed (OU), UnerUsed (UU), RarelyUsed (RU), NeverUsed (NU), and PU, along with little cup and doubles. Venasaur is placed into the OU tier along with charizard, while blastoise is placed in RU.eep in mind that these tiers are made and used by the best players in the world, along with those who are the best in tournaments. For the casual players, Bulbasaur is good for 4 gyms, super effective for 3, and resistant to one, while blastoise is good for 3 gyms and charizard is good for a measly one, and this is all not counting the elite 4, which venasaur has an edge for 2 battles, while charizard and blastoise have an edge for one, along with going through many tunnels within the game. The natural moveset for bulbasaur is phenomenal, since it gets 2 grass type moves before ivysaur, vine whip and leech seed, vine whip allowing it to get STAB (same tpye attack bonus), and leech seed, one of the best moves in all of pokemon, a move that, when used, leeches life poff of the opposing pokemon, healing your own in the process, while it happens every turn after leech seed is used, making it so you can use vine whip along with the benefit of leech seed, all before level 16. Since venasaur is two types, grass/poison, it also has a range of poison type moves, such as toxic and sludge bomb. training venasaur up to a high enough level provides it solar beam, one of the strongest moves in the game at 120 power. Venasaur can also learn 3 of the most useful hms in all of pokemon; stregnth, rock smash, and cut. Not to mention, it is a DINOSAUR. Finally, for the rock-paper-scissors part. Grass beats water, and while fire beats grass, Venasaur's mega evolution provides it with thick fat, giving it more resistance towards fire and ice types.

[@jeebles9500]

MrPokemonmastah ^ underated comment

[@eyebags03]

I am impressed but also you need to get a hobby bud

[@johnfortner357]

MrPokemonmastah great argument; too bad smogon is horrific

[@newbynooob232]

I hav to restart my game and chose bulbasaur. See u in a few weeks when im done...

[@skorpheous9073]

Plants can't survive without water.

[@mopfrenzy1250]

Should remaster this episode(with Austin if possible still haven't finished the shoddy cast episode to why he left) or just in general try a remake of the series I wonder if it would do better in the new age of KZbin

[@lordtijger]

first 5 minutes i was like 'what does this have to do with the pokemon universe gen 1 starters?' then it got into details about the game/pokemons themself. to tell the truth ever since gen 1 i have always picked the fire-type everytime i took another one (yes i experimented sometimes when i was bored) with either the water-type or the grass-type starter i would always get stuck at a gym which forced me to find the nearest location with pokemon and made me train like hell which was actually so time consuming for me back then i preferred to start over and choose the fire-starter. so... charmander for me!