Gaming's New Culture War: A Dissection | Sacred Symbols+, Episode 375

[@WhatDarrenPlays]

Hoeg is the GOAT with this stuff. Not only is he very well informed on every conversation he takes part in at Last Stand, but he's extremely balanced. I particularly liked his take on "what is political" when it comes to games. Hoeg saying that yes in broad strokes basically everything is political, like Star Wars etc. is spot on. He also said the word is thrown around and overused. I completely agree. When Jaffee says Helldivers isn't political, and Colin says it is. They're talking about two completely different forms of what politics in games even means. Hoeg breaks down the difference between politics of the moment, and brow beating politics, where you're forced to look at something and receive a message which usually lambasts a way of thinking. Where you see the hand of the developer or the writer. On the other side, you have a game about political things, wars, propaganda and so on. But never does Helldivers point you to a fascist flag and say "Isn't this bad?" or a pride flag "Isn't this good" - it infers things in a more indirect way, leaves it up to interpretation and ultimately just focuses on the gameplay with the setting as a backdrop. There is no discussion about the Spiderman 2 Pride Flags or Miles Morales Trans Flags. The game stops, looks at it and Miles tells you what to think. When gamers say they don't want politics in games, they really mean they don't want to be told how to think, how to feel, or have a political ideology stand out from the world/theme where you have to stop and take notice, or you have characters mansplain things to you like you're 5 years old. I believe that 99% of the SBI Detective Group on steam want war games, romance, period pieces and so on. They just don't want some unhinged political spokesperson messing with the game and brow beating them.

[@guywhosbored7]

Totally agree. Hoeg is divorced from the crazies of the left and the right and just shoots it straight into the middle for the majority of us. I appreciate what feels like a well thought out nuanced approach with understanding of where all the stakeholders are.

[@HugoStiglitz88]

Yea tbh, I've always thought Colin's argument that everything is political is ridiculous. He keeps pretending like he doesn't know what people mean when they say they don't want politics in their games or he's just refusing to acknowledge what they mean because it's more nuanced than simply matching the dictionary definition of the word lol

[@isturbo1984]

No he isn't. He is a defensive leftist. As to say he defends left wing positions while evading anything critical of any movement, moving the goal post. "It's not political" is a tired old stance used all the time by activists. Take for instance his stance on the entire Kenosha trial. He was the only one on the panel of youtube lawyers that was displeased with that outcome. Because he is not on the side of reason. Her just pretends to be. On the topic of Colin, he intentionally misconstrues things and says everything is political. 1970s era politics used in satire is not "political." He is being intentionally obtuse or worse, unintentionally. Helldivers isn't political because it isn't stuffed with modern politics.--The stuff relevant and being fought over today. Sadly, we've come to the point what when something is lacking a political stance, that is taken as being one. Which just isn't true.

[@Alex_Logan22]

Use better language then instead of half-assing complaints.

[@martinzemek5798]

There's a good video which explains the difference between art that's using some political or sensitive topic and political propaganda that's created to preach what's good and what's bad. Art shows you some problem and let's YOU decide what you think about it. Polotical propaganda TELLS you what you should think about the problem. kzbin.info/www/bejne/d5e2pK2eob-Jpbcsi=qTjLCFmpyXe8q9Hh

[@TheWhitePenny]

The problem with games is that the industry has failed to age with its player base. Games journalists are almost exclusively young adults. I have gotten older but my media hasnt. That is honestly my biggest reason for loving LSM. I am treated as the 36 year old man that i am...

[@linkinparkblink182ro]

I think a big part of this is that only young people will work for some of those incredibly low salaries. I didn't even attempt to get into the industry when it was really my calling, due to the low pay

[@guywhosbored7]

@@linkinparkblink182ro Totally. I agree with Colin that some of these people don't even seem interested in games journalism. That said, I do understand why they keep their options open. If it's hard to secure a job in true games journalism, then unless you come from a secure financial background, you have to be realistic about what you want to do. I'm currently in my final year of subspecialty medical training but prior to getting into med school, I told myself that I would give myself until the age of 23 to keep trying and if I didn't get a spot by then, I would switch my major to something with fewer barriers such as comp sci. Not because I didn't love medicine but because I understood the financial circumstances I was in.

[@guywhosbored7]

Just curious, I'm 28 and pretty left leaning. I have given up pretty much all other podcasts about gaming except for LSM. I attribute that not to age but experience. Do you think that perhaps the difference isn't that you're treated as per your age but because LSM comes with genuine commentary backed with experience? I used to enjoy KF but Greg is on their gaming stuff less frequently and tbh, the remainder of their staff just don't have the experience that Greg and Colin do. So I come to this podcast for Colin's take as an industry vet (although he may not see himself that way).

[@AtotheZness]

This

[@redbargems355]

That’s like problem number 127th on the list but ok

[@8eege]

I think Colin nailed it saying that game companies hired journalists thinking they represented the fans and that's how we got to where we are.

[@ZaJaClt]

theres plenty of games already released, we dont need new titles, p2w, mobile click games or anything, theres more games u can complete in a lifetime if you have a taste

[@rossicg35]

Thank you Hoeg! I posted this on the Jaffe video. Helldivers deals with timeless political satire. Not contemporary political tribalism. Never really understood Colin’s argument that it’s super political. It’s just so overt and broad, it’s comical.

[@rainmaker6261]

Yeah, when people talk about not wanting art to be political, they're not saying they don't want art to be anti-war or have a monarchy or have an oppressed minority in it. These are broad enough to not take you out of the experience. They're saying they don't want heavy-handed moralizing about salient political topics of the day. The kind of topics that get debated on cnn or fox news and will break your immersion. Having a group of marginalized mages is fine. Having them shout that they can't breathe as they get arrested by the city guard is not.

[@painkiller66]

@@rainmaker6261 To be devil's advocate, that seems like changing the meaning of "political". Colin uses the term political for any game that has themes of a political nature. Your definition is a specific integration of political themes within a game/movie/whatever.

[@KZ3fps]

​@@painkiller66 bingo

[@isturbo1984]

Colin always does this. he cant distinguish decade's-old political satire from modern politics. because he doesnt pay attention.

[@rainmaker6261]

@painkiller66 I'm just explaining what people mean when they use the word, which just so happens to be one of the vaguest, most poorly defined words in circulation. Up there with "art." The first definition on Google for "political" is "relating to the government or public affairs of a country." I think it's fairly obvious that when people say they want politics out of games, they do not mean they want everything relating to "government and public affairs" out of games. No one will object to the inclusion of judges or soldiers in your game. What they're clearly objecting to is the inclusion of controversial hot button political topics and themes of the moment.

[@bretttheillustrator]

The issue with Colin wanting better messengers the issue in gaming is all the ppl that would be ANTI sweet baby so to speak are not in any positions. Colin is literally the only one as far as I know talking about this stuff that has most exposure other than Asmongold and Mark Kern

[@HugoStiglitz88]

Yea he really shouldn't complain about that. He could be one of the best speakers on these issues but he also turns a blind eye to it most of the time. He even did during gamergate. He actually believed what the rest of gaming media was saying about gamergate instead of looking into it If he did look into, I have no doubts he 100% would've been on their side because he actually cares about legitimate journalism and would not be cool with all the corruption that was going on

[@isturbo1984]

I dont know what to say about that boy. He is out of touch. He claims he reads the news every day. But its from legacy authoritative sources. Ive seen him and Chris bed over backwards for the very same people who cancelled them time and time again. You can lead a horse to water only so many times.

[@victory7763]

That's part of why they are blindly anti to begin with. They don't work with them so they think the entity operates beyond the scope that it actually does

[@asdfxcvbn746]

@@HugoStiglitz88 funny, how Colin could turn a blind eye to these issues, but has a dude that was a big pro-GamerGater on his staff (Chris)

[@quezcatol]

Im Swedish, I visited the viking Sigurd stone which is of "Sigurd the dragon slayer", literally an image of him hunting and slaying the dragon, Sigurd was a famous viking in the sagas (...viking name as well) who slayed the dragon (vikings made up stories to make other vikings go out and make a name for themselves, as an inspiration, ofc I dont think he literally slayed the dragon), I put on Dragons Dogma 2, Sigurd shows up, THE DRAGON SLAYER, even his class and lore is about slaying a dragon, and ofc he is black. That is DEI. You are literally complaining about whites everywhere, yet you can take a mythology from scandinavians, with a low population and take the name and the saga, and just make him black to make these woke people happy. I have no issue with diversity but at some point people are gonna notice when you clearly just race swap. No way did they create this character and thought about a "black guy", someone somewhere must have stepped in and did this.

[@1985NEVETS]

Yea stuff like that that's clearly done intentionally takes me out of the game or show/movie instantly. Suspension of disbelief says nope I'm out. I'm going to feel the same exact way when they eventually start going after other cultures. If I see a black or any other non Asian emperor of ancient China then I'll disregard everything about it the same. Also have you noticed they have a certain preference when it comes to "diversifying" things? GoW Ragnarok for example. I can't remember much if any Asians or Hispanics in the mix but there were black people. FF7 rebirth is another with the background characters and even stellar blade. It's like someone tells them we have too much salt so sprinkle some pepper in there and call it a day 😅

[@M98747]

​@@1985NEVETSAlso, tv and film seem to hate gingers. They keep recasting ginger characters with POC. Maybe if I shave my head and facial hair, I'll get a promotion.😅

[@jimcarrey2866]

"It's not happening. If it is, it's not a big deal. If it is, it's good for you. If it is not, then you're gracist and sillyphobe." I'm totally in favour of diversity and identity politics being pushed by journalists, studios or publishers. Just let the market decide. Don't ask for PS+ money, at launch, to subsidize the cost of the game. Don't develop an IP and hijack the sequel for your cause. Let the market decide

[@AwkwrdlyAnmated]

The content here is really unmatched

[@Erlaxis]

It's ok. Quality varies, but this episode was good.

[@Alex_Logan22]

Colin liking automated comments lol.

[@AwkwrdlyAnmated]

@@Alex_Logan22 def not automated, I’ve just been really appreciating the work being put in lately with the shows

[@TheLastDaysOfSorrow]

While I absolutely agree that the "grifters" on both side intentionally keep stoking the flames of controversy for personal gain, taking the "anti-sbi" stance and reducing it to "people have no idea about game development and the values of dei consultancy" when the bulk of the backlash happened due to Chris Kindreds stirring up his followers to mass report the creators steam account feels either disingenuous or misinformed to me. This whole situation kept snowballing because the media was (and still is) intentionally omitting and mischaracterizing what actually happened. Instead of factual reporting feeding into the good ol' "angry racist gamers harass company" stereotype was the chosen narrative. I do think that DEI consulting is super important to paint an accurate picture of varying cultures/religions/whathaveyou but in an age of hypersensitivity where clout and victim status is easily monetized, it is naiv to believe that the concept of DEI consultation can't be twisted into a malicious self-serving tool that creates artifical problems. And that's what I personally took away from Kim Belairs gdc talk. "Just terrify them what might happen..." - these people who see race and gender everywhere are themselves the problem they're selling the solution to. Above all else I'd argue this is about people being incredibly tired and just fed up of these unhinged activists corrupting their entertainment with hollow, performative caricatures of what their favorite franchises used to look like. I think we're at a point where even the most ignorant folks can't deny that this is exactly what happened in alot of modern media - especially film. Legacy franchises ruined through horrendous writing and performative virtue signaling while often times emasculating iconic, beloved characters. This stuff has killed a huge part of my interest in western popculture over the years and I definitely wouldn't like to see the same thing happening in gaming - even though you could argue it's already happening. I get that you can be hypersensitive to this as well and I don't think I am (?). At least liked Spider-Man 2, tlou pt2 and also Alan Wake 2. I'm not flipping tables the moment I see a gay character or poc but I definitely noticed a very obvious trend to turn these characters into Mary Sues, which inherently damages the credibility of any narrative. Anyway, apologies for the novel lol

[@HugoStiglitz88]

Just like they did with the original gamergate and all the backlash towards last of us part 2 (to a lesser extent but I still saw tons of people dismissing all criticism as being from people who didn't even play it which couldn't have been further from the truth) They would much rather smear people that address their legitimate concerns. They think gamers are still powerless to fight their narrative machine like we pretty much were in 2014. It ain't 2014 anymore

[@victory7763]

​@HugoStiglitz88 Well the backlash began with the leaks of TLOU2, so it was in fact a portion who didn't play the game. Whether or not it was a "small vocal minority" as it's always characterized, is an entirely different discussion

[@elbowjuice2627]

@@HugoStiglitz88 gamergate 1 really boiled down to a pure culture war bc damn near everyone was a bad faith actor. EVERYONE.

[@sammcl1]

Interesting conversation but ultimately doesn't really matter. If people really don't like some elements of games today, they'll stop buying those games. If it's enough people, companies will take a financial hit and the market will move back to center. I understand if people are disappointed that games they used to enjoy now have elements that don't work for them. But that has happened as long as games have existed. All we can really do is buy stuff we like and hope it has enough support to continue. If not, that's sad but so be it.

[@jimcarrey2866]

Representation matters and Hoeg represented me. Well thought out balanced opinions without being dismissive about the subject. The MVP

[@3Overhaus]

It's important to remember that Sweet Baby Inc Detected literally just linked to SBI own website. They're own words were seen and they ran and lied about themselves.

[@skeetsofrage9517]

Appreciate the conversation, all i gotta say on it the matter is that people are tired of the double standards and bad faith actors with a clear axe to grind and message to push, and it won't be going by unchecked anymore. From Sweet Baby, Black Girl Gamers, to Community Managers / Game Developers very vocal and very toxic anti-white / anti-asian statements, nah, no more. Those days are over.

[@redbargems355]

Yes sir, gatekeeping is back baby

[@deathproof8732]

Colin. We see through it. That's why they get so angry and gaslighting.

[@Michael-rv5ib]

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that it’s simply great that people are publishing stuff. That is one of the biggest issues in today’s world. Everybody thinks they deserve to be heard and they think they have something to say. Some people don’t have anything of value to say, and do not deserve to be heard. Look at kotaku and modern IGN. Largely talentless people writing garbage and saying nothing of value.

[@marloncarrero6575]

Sure, but who gets to say what should or should not be published? That’s the main problem with the argument that not everything should be published.

[@Michael-rv5ib]

@@marloncarrero6575 I am by no means saying there should be overlords who go around deciding who can and can’t publish. But these people writing trash, people making trash movies and shows, they need to accept that they are putting out garbage, and take accountability opposed to blaming sexism, racism, etc. I think everybody should be able to share their views and create projects, but people will call out a bad product, and it’s up to the people putting out the bad products to perhaps realize they don’t have what it takes to make it in an industry. Unfortunately in today’s world if you check certain boxes, you get carte blanch and can put out steaming turd after steaming turd and can just blame the audience.

[@adammathis9693]

Using that mentally ill definition of racism is so pathetic lol. Glad Hoeg was here to call it out.

[@Ragucci25]

What a conversation. Love you all, even Jason.

[@johncra8982]

it is genuinely laughable to see Gene Park sitting in on a panel about this topic 💀 may as well have invited Alyssa Mercante, Paul Tassi, and gotten Jeff Grubb as the moderator.

[@HamSlammer456]

I believe the phrase Gene was looking for is "Brittle Spirit"

[@GenePark]

YES. "that is a brittle spirit."

[@MarcusSoulCombos]

I feel like so many games journalists or just public voices for games that put on a face of being more nuanced and intellectual tend to try and muddy and obfuscate what everyone can clearly see. There is a massive push to promote a more progressive culture in gaming that just didn’t exist in the same way only 10 years ago. It’s not complicated or this very complicated thing that’s not really what it seems. It’s exactly what it seems. And there’s a growing number of people that don’t like it, but as with most things people generally don’t care and just consume blindly, or until it’s too late and destroyed.

[@LastMinuteGuess]

If you cannot be racist against white people due to power dynamics, then you can’t be anti semitic to Jewish people in Israel. Yet we recognize that anti semitism definitely does exist. At minimum, there should be two different definitions of racism: “structural” and “interpersonal”.

[@asdfxcvbn746]

"At minimum, there should be two different definitions of racism: “structural” and “interpersonal” --- sorry... racism is racism. its a slippery slope accepting that far-left progressive re-defining of twhat racism means. democrats want to redefine racism, so that they can be openly racist towards white people without the guilt & shame that comes with being branded a racist. if you buy into that way of thinking you're no better than them.

[@DavidMcKinstry]

Would love to have more Jason content here. Brought a good balance to the discussion.

[@isturbo1984]

There is no "balance" in the discussion on the matter like there is no balance in the discussion about Adalfo. He was a bad dude. End of story. If you think otherwise, you're wrong. It is what it is. Having a bunch of sympathizers with opposing views is not balance, its chaos. Same with SBI.

[@MikeG82]

No you’re wrong, the only thing you know about him is the lies the small hats told you as they control the entire Narrative and ban any story that dares to tell the other side

[@MikeG82]

Funny enough they are doing the same thing in Gaza they claim he did to them, but it’s ok when they do it right????

[@Shinobifoxx]

Since I've avoided this whole situation and know nothing about it, I'm excited to learn 😂

[@letstacobout]

You won’t get much other than people don’t know because I work in the industry

[@isturbo1984]

you are excited to learn from a bunch of people who have also avoided the subject??

[@asdfxcvbn746]

@@isturbo1984 translation: i knew it was a problem & an important issue, but i stuck my head in the sand & now that its affecting my games, i want to know about it at the last minute lol smh

[@isturbo1984]

@@asdfxcvbn746 for some people. i for one am inclined to think its less of a head in the sand issue and more of a "i cant speak against my side" issue. happens all the time in the political word. even when things start to finally effect them personally in a bad way, they still chose to stay quiet about it. they know an authoritative consultancy agencies being forced onto devs and sabotage the creative process is in no world a good idea. they know.

[@asdfxcvbn746]

@@isturbo1984 "i for one am inclined to think its less of a head in the sand issue and more of a i cant speak against my side issue." --- i don't think its that, because people who are on the pro Sweet Baby side, tend to be narrow minded & not be open to other opinions & they don't even want to hear a discussion about it... so clearly this guy isn't that. I think this guy is genuinely a casually uninitiated person when it comes to this topic. most people just don't care unless wokeness ruins something that is dear to them.

[@siddharthshishulkar8992]

I find it hilarious that they managed to dodge all the data around these DEI consultings. This ENTIRE conversation is essentially "This is wrong because I can't make the sense of it" and Jason just saying "that doesn't happen" Do you really expect people to believe that? If there IS a journalistic cabal, why would Gene acknowledge it? It's a conflict lol . I don't understand the point of this discussion. Colin is just deliberately diluting the discussion by saying "there's a lot of context around it", it would be great if you actually talked about it other than just blaming it on opportunistic journeyman, which I 100% agree with but there's a strong sense that there's more to it. An regarding echo chambers, it's impossible to avoid clustering of people with similar views. Patreon communities are largely people paying to have their views validated.

[@keenkolo5767]

Ash Parish is nuclear to this conversation, but it’s just shrugged off because I don’t know if Colin really knows some of the comments she’s made. Pretty frustrating and hard to take Gene at his word on that.

[@TyranBatten]

Could someone explain to me what it is they’re actually talking about? I was hoping for an explanation of this topic on a wider scope and I’m 30 mins and still don’t really know what’s going on

[@TheLastDaysOfSorrow]

Brazilian dude made a steam curator list of games with Sweet Baby Inc involvement. SBI employee (Chris Kindred) rallies his followers to report the list, associated group and the brazilian dude who made it "because he likes his steam account so much". This creates a Streisand Effect and skyrockets the followercount of the curator list (now at >350k). Gaming media across the board intentionally omits any mentioning of Chris Kindred and his harassment campagne and blaims "toxic gamers" for targeted harassment of SBI. Since then multiple industry and gaming media people kept stoking the flames with statements like "you can't be racist against white people" (Alyssa Mercante) and also tried to cancel Asmongold's partnership with Capcom for Dragon's Dogma 2 because well..."wrongthink". This rabbit hole goes deeper with every passing day since there are actors on both sides actively profiting off of it.

[@TheLastDaysOfSorrow]

okay wild, apparently my comment got deleted. So let's try again: Brazilian dude made a steam curator list of games with Sweet Baby Inc involvement. SBI employee (Chris Kindred) rallies his followers to report the list, associated group and the brazilian dude who made it "because he likes his steam account so much". This creates a Streisand Effect and skyrockets the follower-count of the curator list (now at >350k). Gaming media across the board intentionally omits any mentioning of Chris Kindred and blaims "toxic gamers" for targeted harrassment of SBI. Since then multiple industry and gaming media people kept stoking the flames with statements like "you can't be racist against white people" (Alyssa Mercante) and also tried to cancel Asmongold's partnership with Capcom for Dragon's Dogma 2 because well..."wrongthink". This rabbit hole goes deeper with every passing day since there are actors on both sides actively profiting off of it.

[@TyranBatten]

@@TheLastDaysOfSorrow Thanks for some of the background. I totally missed all this news so I was hoping this podcast would explain it a little more but I guess they assumed everyone watching this would already know these details

[@TheLastDaysOfSorrow]

​@@TyranBatten yeah I expected a short chronological summary of what happened as well. It'd have been quite important to do so since the most frustrating part about this shitshow is the false narrative the media has been pushing. At least imo this is what has utterly poisoned the well of any meaningful constructive discussion between the parties. If coverage of - and huge parts of the industry are this geniunely screwed that every outlet omits the catalyst of the whole controversy then that only creates fertile ground for disdain, mistrust and ultimately conspiracy theories. I agree that this complete rejection of DEI is pretty silly but if you look at the behaviour and statements from SBi employees then it's quite obvious that these people have a rather radical agenda and a deep-rooted hatred for "the white male gamer".

[@TyranBatten]

@@TheLastDaysOfSorrowSo just making sure I have some of these details right. Sweet Baby inc. is a writing consultant company with left-leaning social goals and the point of the steam list was just to show how many studios are using them for their games. And I guess the conspiracy theory is that they have more control over the industry than they are letting on? Is that basically right?

[@garywood97]

You got 4 people together and yet none of them represented the kind of "Gamergate" position? This seems kinda disappointing for this channel.

[@tb1235]

Should’ve had someone from Geeks and Gamers on. This was very surface level.

[@garywood97]

@@tb1235 Yeah Jeremy from G&G would probably be up for this, and can hold his own in a discussion.

[@leonkennedy7638]

But Gamergaters hate representation and inclusion, hypocrite.

[@PlayLaughLogan]

You really need to get someone on here that actually understands this whole SBI controversy. Every time y'all talk about it it comes across wilfully ignorant or incredibly biased. I know Colin sees a lot of the Gamergate 2.0 crowd as bad mouth pieces, but that shouldnt matter. Be objective and fair by bringing on someone that can share the other side of the story.

[@redbargems355]

I agree. For as much as they bitch about people like Mark Kern they could easily have him on. Or Craig from Side Scrollers who Colin has appeared on. It’s lazy and biased like you said.

[@PlayLaughLogan]

@@redbargems355 They really need to do better at balancing out perspectives on episodes like this. I know Colin tried that by getting a lawyer, a journalist, and a producer on, but there's more than just job titles to consider lol. Colin is famously "offline" and anti-twitter now so he's always willfully ignorant of any controversies that stem from there, Gene I respect, but he's buddy buddy with a lot of the journos that started this mess and have been stoking the flames like Alyssa Mercante, and Jason is clearly fully on SBI's side. The only reasonable person here was Hoeg who at least had the knowledge to understand the political themes vs contemporary politics angle of the "all art is/isnt political" debate. Do better LSM 🙏🏻

[@InkyMuste]

Kern would be a good guest, I feel like they have a skewed view of him.

[@3Overhaus]

​@@PlayLaughLoganThat Jason guys defense of Spiderman 2 was weak to say the least. Sheesh!

[@PlayLaughLogan]

@@InkyMuste I honestly think its just Colin being biased because Nick from Second Wind did a hit piece on Kern and Colin likes those guys. He just keeps saying he's a bad figurehead or bad mouth piece or whatever, but never really backs up why he thinks so. And that's aside from the fact that it's not even like Kern is the "leader" of Gamergate 2 anyway LMAOOOO. He's just one of the ones with the biggest followings calling out all the bs happening with localization, censorship, etc. in the industry.

[@keenkolo5767]

I like to think of Mark Kern as a canary in a coal mine. The #freestellarblade thing is tenuous at best. But at the time of writing, it has 78,000+ signatures. This also coming at a time when Helldivers 2 shot themselves in their own foot and got 172,000+ negative reviews in 24 hours because of Sony’s overreach. Mark Kern’s takes are inflammatory, but they a) point to a problem that players actually are motivated by, and b) get play from the journalists who keep trying to discredit the points. He may be just a bird, but the bird is dying here people (figuratively). When are we going to get some actual acknowledgment from the industry that says it’s nothing?

[@jimcarrey2866]

I agree with you, Mark is not the ideal it is what it is. These 2 examples you gave are fascinating. They aren't a big deal by themselves but, they're what their core audiences want. One of them worked and the other didn't. Will people treat them differently because Sony addressed one of them? Is one of them "safer" to agree with?

[@keenkolo5767]

I think the more interesting thing about this is with Hollywood, they’re able to control the flow of information more. Critics and fans have a different relationship with that type of media. The problem that game companies are going to run into if they continue to take a page from the recent Hollywood trends is that the gaming audience fundamentally interacts with the media differently. Meaning if they mobilize, it is overwhelming.

[@kjellbjrnasmo480]

This pannel is too narrow. Get Mark on and talk to him

[@leonkennedy7638]

But Gamergaters hate representation and inclusion, hypocrite.

[@StraitShot]

DEI/ESG and the subscription model go hand in hand. Doesn't matter if the Game, Movie or TV show is trash if you are forced to pay for it....

[@8eege]

This is true but the subscription model also funds some good smaller games/shows/movies that wouldn't be made otherwise. You have to take the Blackrock moneygrab slop with it unfortunately.

[@vincentmartin9667]

2:20:20 Is a very interesting point to me given how things are shaping up on social media.

[@reeseolive]

Did Gene really bring a P+P=R argument from Alberta no less? Lmao

[@felixenigma4335]

I honestly think this was an interesting conversation but it lacked some conviction. Colin has kind of turned into Joe Rogan, having based takes but quickly agreeing with guest if they have other takes. The fact that anti white racisms ( or whatever Gene likes to call it) has become prevalent in the industry is a given, together and in connection with some pseudo marxist worldview and a mission to implement it in games. This has become the driving force for a lot of game developers and adjacent people . Sometimes this goals supersedes or comes in conflict with overall quality of the games, especially on the story front. Now this is a Western civilizational problem, mostly coming from education ( especially higher) but let’s not pretend it isn’t especially prevalent in the games industry precisely because their “ lack of diversity” ( of viewpoints not race) . And games having a leftwing slant isn’t so bad into itself but is it means that the industry gate keepers open the door to grifters,race-baiters and people have nothing but disdain for their supposed consumers ( wether of media or the actual product) is a problem and it so be called out much more forcefully. The fact that even in this conversation its kind of shrugged away as a “ much to do about nothing” really is indicative of the industry discourse around this issue. Not embracing clearly racist people,with an overt political agenda wanting to “ colonize” the whole industry with their viewpoints should not be controversial to address for sane people of any political stripes.

[@MrCalalf]

You do realize you can have your own takes while also at the same time, agreeing and disagreeing with points/takes that go against your own? You know…. Nuance.

[@felixenigma4335]

@@MrCalalf Sure, but something taken a clear stance against something trumps nuance. For instance taken a stance against letting racist people into you industry. This shouldn’t be a gray issue yet instead it comes with all sorts of excuses and caveats. If a person proclaims their actions cannot be judged on their merits because their actions are somehow immune to criticism of others just based their race than that is abhorrent and not nuanced at all. The fact this is hard to grapple with by seemingly otherwise very sane people shows the deep and systemic problems within the games industry on all levels.

[@MrCalalf]

@@felixenigma4335 I don’t think he was wavering against not letting racist people in the industry, at least that’s not what i got from it. As for the other topics, what I did notice he would state his opinion and other would chime in to sort of challenge his pre conceived notion and he does agree to an extent. What is wrong with that? Keeping an open mind and being willing to assume some of your viewpoints may or flawed is not a sign of weakness. There this sense in society of you having to be 100% ironclad with your opinion and you can’t waiver or your weak, what does that do to help anyone? It just makes everyone siloed off from each other and not willing to hear each other out.

[@redbargems355]

How about we all speed run to the end and find out this is all welfare funded by the taxpayer. Can’t believe that wasn’t even in the conversation.

[@bradfordh35]

Generally curious. Could you explain more?

[@seanpreston6066]

Hoeg went to Hillsdale?? Well well well Mr. Hoity Toity lol

[@lewatoaofair]

Kind of crazy to have this convo about "Gamergate 2.0" and not have Chris on, when he's a host of the podcast. But I guess he's probably not that excited at the prospect of talking about it more.

[@asdfxcvbn746]

ikr Chris was big time pro-GamerGate but now that he has money coming in, he knows he can't be having too many controversial opinions. so he mostly stays away from those convos.

[@lewatoaofair]

​@@asdfxcvbn746 I really don't think it's that at all. What money does he have coming in that would be effected? His money comes from Colin, and from Snark Tank patrons, none of whom would care if he had "controversial" opinions. His money definitely isn't coming from the one or two Raycon sponsorships he gets per year. I think he's just tired of talking about it at this point because it's been literally a decade and people are still trying to make it part of the conversation.

[@tb1235]

Chris has changed from the “punch a n***” days. In that he likes steering from controversy even if his stance is correct.

[@garywood97]

Chris is just generic left-liberal on nearly everything nowadays. Nothing against him personally, but he doesn't really bring any interesting perspective to political discussions. He just brings the perspective you've already heard from most major liberal institutions.

[@asdfxcvbn746]

@@garywood97 "Chris is just generic left-liberal on nearly everything nowadays. Nothing against him personally, but he doesn't really bring any interesting perspective to political discussions." --- to be fair, this is a gaming channel... not a political rag. if you're looking for that The Young Turks or Daily Wire might be more your speed lol

[@FringedHorizon]

Colin, you should have tried to get Kabrutus on to tell it from the horses mouth.

[@baneintherain]

He isn't really that interesting of a guest. I've seen him on other stuff and while he's doing a decent thing, he's not great on the mic.

[@DeAngryDan]

A complete and utter Echo Chamber.. how can you say that ye are hashing something this topic out when all ye did was agree with each other the whole time.. Colin "yes yes go ahead i agree" Moriarty.. could you not get someone on that might challenge ye, and I don't mean for it to get aggressive but ye were way too comfortable and agreeable for a very divisive subject.

[@stumpy4770]

Every part of the games industry, from journalists, devs and community managers are apathetic, even hate, the older gamers, like myself. I am 54, and gamed nearly every day for 47 years, and had every PlayStation console on day one. I play 5 different games daily. Apex Legends, Gran Turismo 7, Minecraft, Kingdom Come Deliverance, and now Stellar Blade. I have had 3 bans from Sony, that as a 54 year old gamer, are absolutely stupid and pathetic reasons. The last ban was, for GT7. I recreated 5 or 6 movie/TV cars from my childhood, like the Starsky and Hutch car and The Fall Guy truck. I also uploaded the Dukes of Hazzard car, and that is what got me a ban. Absolutely ridiculous. I think the decision for my ban was made by some 20 year old that has no knowledge of gaming or entertainment history, that just saw the flag on the top of the car, and thought racist. They probably have no idea the car is from a TV show, movies and 2 games on the PlayStation 2 console. The games industry would be happy if all gamers over 35 disappear, so they can push their propaganda and trash games to just the young kids.

[@ZaJaClt]

why are you not pirating? you are giving your money to people that just wipe there arses with it. i paid for 5-6 games in my life that werent on console, and upon getting a ps4 used it for a month, im not paying for something that used to come as standart and now is overpriced. i pirated BG3, tested it. liked it and paid for it. i wont do it any other way. theese people represent god knows who and are openly mocking history and everything else inbetween by catering to crowds that change hair colour faster than a chameleon and sex/gender race on a byweekly basis

[@SixBladesKojiro]

Some people get it and some people dont but the real problem is no one is willing to agree to disagree.

[@Heat55wade3]

Based Hoeg. Aerith all the way. Great talk, guys!

[@kadabur]

great Convo, this is what sets LSM apart from the rest!

[@Wayne-B]

Love me some gene, Goku is like my gens (millennial) superman.

[@imniallg]

Most excited + episode yet.

[@MidEastBeast99]

Everyone wants to talk about the the SBI consultants lets talk about WHO and WHY they are hiring them.

[@EViLGrEEn42090]

I’m 34 and have two kids.Between them and theircousins and friends. They are the modern young new audience up and coming and they aren’t making anything for them that they really gravitate to. The industries modern audience doesn’t exist or is a very small audience that barely exists. These kids are no different than I was. The only thing that’s changed are the idiots running the industry.

[@Saccshop]

"That's power" Yeah - it is

[@grizzlyadamblack]

Colin you're right devs can put whatever they want in their games and their ideology. But consumers have the right not to buy it. Wish you guys would say what is actually up. People are just done with the politcs and they dont want to see it everywhere. They are tired of being hit over the head in games and movies and shows. These story tellers have no idea what pulling back means. And its always the same political side. Their is no other views. Let's see a game made by conservatives or libertarians. People are done with it and when they express it they are called ist and phobes. And the guy in the bottom right really going hard to defend SBI. Are they a scapegoat yes. But saying the devs in Montreal should consult with SBI about the south? Come now lol. Should add Parks bringing up Kiwi Farms is funny the left 99 percent of the time use Kiwi farms as a scapegoat for their horrible actions. Most ppl dont know kiwi farms. I've never been on it. No one Ik knows what it is. No one ever brings it up but the left so they can use them as a boogeyman. Really wish you had a person from the right on this panel. And no Colin doesn't count. Colin clearly isn't that informed as he used to be. "Dont care shes black but shes not hot" and this guy pointed that out when it's clearly joking around 🙄 just wow. Telling me none of you 4 joke around and talk crap with your friends? Get out of here. This east or west coast people are not normal people. If you go to middle america I have a feeling you'd all cry. Also what is wrong with Mark Kern? He's very moderate and been in the industry and is pointing out problems. So he is biased and none of you are? Looking at skin color and sex is factually racist. If you want the best product possible you hire on talent. I'll say it again maybe you should've brought on a Heelz v Babyface. To have no one from that side puts this talk in the crapper. Parks you can be racist towards whites. You went out of your way to pick a definition that suited your agenda. And Colin wants to say you guys are unbiased? Wikipedia says its discrimination based on skin color. Great job guys 🙄.

[@M98747]

The def girl being in Spider-Man 2 made sense because she was in Miles Morales, and they clearly flirted. You knew she and Miles were going to be a thing. Miles randomly wasting time helping a gay kid ask someone out seems out of place considering he's a hero that's already saved New York City. Not everything is DEI. Humans exist. I know deaf people; I know blind people; they exist. Having them in a game doesn't make it DEI, but if it is forced and doesn't make sense to the plot, it doesn't work.

[@ltw126]

I don’t know why people complained so much about deaf girl mission or Miles helping his gay classmates. They were side missions that had absolutely nothing to do with the story. You could’ve skipped those Side Missions.

[@M98747]

@@ltw126 I personally didn't hear anyone complain about Miles girlfriend, but to be fair, she didn't hear it either. Sorry, I just watched the roast of Tom Brady. 😂 The other side missions didn't make sense, because Miles shouldn't be wasting time with pointless things. This is a problem with gaming in general though. "No sir, I can't go look for your chicken. An ancient demon is coming to kill every living creature." Devs put these missions that don't match the tone of the game, because they need to pad the playtime. Give me fewer missions and side content that are actually good and match the tone of the game.

[@ltw126]

@@M98747 I agree, most games just don’t need side missions. I just don’t think Miles help out his gay friends in a side mission makes Spider-Man 2 a bad game.

[@M98747]

@@ltw126 I don't think it makes it a bad game, but it's clearly pandering filler. Spider-Man doesn't help people get dates while criminals are roaming the streets of NYC, literally murdering people.

[@ltw126]

@@M98747 it’s a very fine line between inclusiveness and pandering. Spider-Man 2 came close to pandering. However, like I stated before these were side missions that didn’t have anything to do with the story. You could completely skip these side missions.

[@widyasantoso4910]

@NeverKnowsBest has put out probably the best analysis of this: "The real story of Gamergate 2 (conspiracy theories, crybullying and a consumer revolt)" Just under 100 minutes, go watch that.

[@qwertyuiopqwerqwererty]

So ESG and DEI initiatives are highly incentivized, yet we have to pretend like the effects of these incentives on games are some sort of conspiracy? I think we're missing the point here. It's not like anyone has a gun to the heads of these game devs telling them to do DEI or else; rather, there exists a broad cultural movement that encourages and makes it the path of least resistance. It's not some sort of conspiracy that game journalism is dominated by left wing people, or that developers are incentivized to bring in consultancy firms with nothing to offer other than a diversity and equity stamp of approval- I think it's safe to say that its just reality. But this isn't really the core issue anyways. I think the broad pushback from gamers is rooted in actual lack of representation, not on the basis of immutable characteristics, but from the lack of products made with them in mind. DEI is evidence of this, not because gamers can't relate to a variety of characters and settings, but because enforcing arbitrary quotas, whether in hiring for a project, in the writing for the game, or anywhere else, will inevitably impact the end product. It's fair to say that DEI initiatives could impact a game positively, but it is crazy to pretend that an arbitrary quota or goal that isn't to make the game as good as possible will typically help make the game as good as possible. Gamers want (and feel "represented" by) great gameplay and phenomenal storytelling- the problem with DEI is that it has literally nothing to do with either of those things. I feel like this core argument is being misconstrued throughout the podcast. Yes, people will say it's a conspiracy or that gamers don't understand how it all works, and they may be right. But that doesn't change the core content of the argument. Just because no one coerced a game developer into placing overt political content, racial tokenism, cringe writing, ugly-on-purpose characters, or anything else doesn't mean gamers have to like it. And just because no one can prove that these trends are being forced on games doesn't mean that these trends aren't taking place or that they can't take issue with them. People are just tired of the patronizing, shallow, and ugly games that are being fed to them. It's not wrong or bad or racist to push back against journalists, studios, and consulting firms that are propegating the stuff. Will making fun of a journalist on X for their terrible opinion fix the problem? No. Will Sweet Baby Detected remove "wokeness" from gaming? No, of course not. But I don't think anyone is seriously arguing that. People are just expressing their opinions, voting with their wallets, and trying to spread their opinion, like anyone else would. I'm having a hard time pretending like there's something wrong with that.

[@Moeron86]

I feel like that first minute there were some shots taken at hoeg... I hope I'm 100% wrong in the way I interpreted

[@Boredman567]

My biggest gripe with the people who try and quibble about the definition of racism: They're imposing their own definitions upon everyone else. It's linguistic prescriptivism. Language is an evolving thing that's based on shared understanding and communication. If most people think a word means something, then that's what it means. They are literally trying to communicate the idea they have in their head, and it completely misses the point of language if you tell them "your intent doesn't matter, only my own strict definition of your words matters." To most people, the main definition of racism is basically "racial prejudice/bigotry". The other definition, which lots of these progressive activists try to use, is specifically describing racism as a systemic and society-wide force. In that context, sure, it's not feasible for a powerless group to effect systemic discrimination against the dominant group. But even then, it's not a binary thing that only happens one way. This definition tends to generalize all interactions, ignoring the context and nuance of each situation. But the problem arises when they try and conflate these two definitions. When people told Mercante that a person was racist against white people, they were obviously not talking about racism as a systemic force, but as a personal prejudice. So when she responds "You can't be racist against white people", she's treating the sociological definition as if it changes the personal definition. It's like if someone said "Let's table this discussion for later", and she decided to respond "Actually, table is a noun. Try again!".

[@visual_sanctum]

Call Matt Walsh a lot of things, but he most certainly isn't a grifter. He's one of those evangelical Christian conservative types who have a very puritanical view of how the world should look. He's curmudgeonly to a fault, and a bit of a cultural weirdo, which explains his out-of-touch views on video games, but it doesn't come from a place of deceit. He's been saying the same things since before he became famous.

[@TheHanleyProject]

Perfect timing as I'm about to settle in for dinner!

[@Nintendo_Icons]

Why is Gene constantly saying “uh huh” like 100 times a minute.

[@Marmondos420]

Love to hear the conversation but after understanding the whole situation with sbi, I don’t understand why it’s being talked about still. People should be able to understand that it’s the developers making these decisions, if you don’t like it, don’t support it. I believe the games released are the devs true intentions and I will accept it but I don’t have to like it if I don’t want to. If anything maybe we should fund programs to recruit people that want to get into the gaming dev industry with different diversity and there are programs like that, so just more voicing out and wanting that. Let the big companies know we want more support for that.

[@themeangene]

The problem is these people actively discriminate against conservative game devs. They love putting the boot on the small guy

[@salmark9080]

Our bro at the bottom right said he will vote for Biden again 😭 hope he sees the light

[@baneintherain]

There's no right or wrong side.

[@DarkWarrior165]

I am to but i dislike him 😂 i don't like right wing propaganda

[@STANDIEMCSTILLE]

What even was the first gamergate lol. I feel like gamers didn't even give a shit about it. No one I knew cared about it enough to look into it. I Just want good god damn fucking games. Life sucks and i just wanna get away.

[@MrMOTUMan]

I’ll never buy a game infected by Sweet Baby Stink or any other bullshit DEI consultant. In the end the market will decide what content they want or don’t want.

[@spenny2cents]

You nailed it 💯 and the market has spoken loud & clear!! These companies won’t miss your money or support anymore, they are milking the casuals/mainstream. You fought the good fight but time to raise the white flag

[@FreshWitcher]

I'd say the 1960s were much more turbulent than today.

[@knleonhart]

Jason, where did you go?! JAAAASON!

[@david53444]

The conversation is great, but too progressive leaning. Unfortunately you don't have one person on this panel who represents the conservative side. Someone who isn't so diplomatic that he completely surrenders his beliefs to the progressives. Someone that just states the simple truth that it's simply an ideology. Progressive ideas have nothing to do with what the average person wants or belief and they are far left ideas, not in the political center at all. Acting like people who dislike it are the extremists is pure gaslighting. It's an issue of ideology. Ideologues entering not only institutions and political parties, but also pop culture, which started in Hollywood and continues in gaming. It's a far left progressive intersectional ideology that 2 people on this panel support.

[@YouTubeChannel-iq5to]

You definitely sound even-keeled and objective 😂

[@david53444]

@@KZbinChannel-iq5to I'm not saying this from any objective basis. If you understood my comment, you wouldn't have said this.

[@YouTubeChannel-iq5to]

@@david53444 I know, MAGA. But why would anybody discuss with you on your terms only? That’s just the thing your criticizing the progressive side for lol

[@david53444]

@@KZbinChannel-iq5to Not on my terms only. I said we needed one person who is actually conservative and doesn't surrender and hide his actual beliefs like Colin does. You can still have Hoeg in the middle and Gene and Jason on the progressive side. And no, I'm not MAGA. I'm not even american.

[@visual_sanctum]

This is a perfect way of describing current day Colin. I don't even necessarily disagree with his overall take on opportunistic, bad faith actors in the space, but man, he really does tend to frame everything through a Progressive-lens. To be honest, I'm not sure if it's as much him suppressing his actual beliefs as much as he's just nowhere near as conservative as he used to be.

[@isturbo1984]

Authoritative companies putting pressure on dev teams to change content and disrupt and stifle the creative process is not a good thing for the devs, the gamers, nor the industry. Regardless if their position is self-imposed as morally righteous. There is a reason the industry is turn itself inside out and struggling across all metrics.

[@linkinparkblink182ro]

Lol I love that Rogue Legacy trait thing

[@8bitArtist]

HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH GRUMMZ, COLIN. if you think his ideas are so bad, discuss them and help him see it... or maybe he will change your viewpoint.

[@keenkolo5767]

I don’t really know if Mark would really want that… it would be interesting though!

[@1985NEVETS]

​@@keenkolo5767petition time. Enough signatures we will force his hand 🤫

[@leonkennedy7638]

But Gamergaters hate representation and inclusion, hypocrite. Grummz doesn't deserve to be included then.

[@8bitArtist]

@@keenkolo5767 he has gone on a bunch of podcasts. Im sure he would with colin

[@keenkolo5767]

@@8bitArtist don’t get me wrong, I think he and Colin could have a great conversation. But I don’t think there’s trust there. But again, what do I know.

[@MrMOTUMan]

Actually, I don’t want to play as Miles Morales AT ALL because the character is just a Spider-man imposter. He could have been good if he was an original character and not piggybacking off Spider-man’s success. - Peter Parker = Spider-man - Mile Morales = Miles Morales

[@TyranBatten]

I mean, imo the first Spider-verse movie did a pretty good job establishing Miles as a Spider-Man worthy of the title, but I would agree with about pretty much everything else.

[@alleystargrowley2784]

I have heard gamergate explained a bunch of times and I still don't fully understand it.

[@forasago]

That happens when most of what you hear about an issue is lies. Like the entire wikipedia article lol

[@RicoSeattle]

The reason people are complaining about "ugly characters" is because we want more exaggerated beautiful characters that are overtly sexy. So when a game like Stellar Blade comes around we're surprised and glad because it doesn't happen very often. And I'm guessing the reason Colin doesn't understand that position is because he personally doesn't care if a character is sexualized or not, but many of us DO want that. And it seems like Jason doesn't understand the sexualization element of this topic.

[@3Overhaus]

I don't even need them to be sexy. I just want accuracy. MJ in Spiderman is a beautiful redhead who was.out of Peter Parker's league yet he married her. That plays into Parkers underdog personality. Insomniac downplayed her looks and made her a less than average looking girl. It's annoying and disrespectful to the source material

[@Alex_Logan22]

Why is this called Sacred Symbols?

[@keenkolo5767]

It’s a Playstation reference for the symbols of the buttons.

[@Alex_Logan22]

@@keenkolo5767 Let me rephrase, what does this episode have to do with PlayStation? It's good and all but mislabeled.

[@TyranBatten]

“Sacred Symbols+” is their supplemental show and they are pretty wide ranging in scope. Interviews, call-in shows, and all kinds of stuff show up on it. Usually it’s Patreon exclusive but they release them publicly if they think it’s going to be well received which is why you’re seeing it now. The main show is and always will be almost entirely PlayStation focussed, but they mix it up with the bonus episodes sometimes

[@Alex_Logan22]

@@TyranBatten Ah I see, the + makes it different, thanks.

[@d8l835]

54:13 lol like he's contagious or something

[@donjohnson7491]

Glad Jaffe wasn't involved in this topic, remember that constellation episode on politics?

[@Wayne-B]

I like jaffe, his input is welcomed.

[@masebreakface3426]

I don’t agree. While Jaffe interjects and gets excited about this stuff, which he has acknowledged he recognizes and is working to give people space to talk, he really knows how to stretch the panel’s minds with his opinions. He stimulates great conversations that show the differing opinions have a lot of common ground.

[@Yazeed99]

I'm out of the loop. What happened?

[@Wayne-B]

@Yazeed99 jaffe gets really excited and tends to overtalk people sometimes. He is well-meaning and has valid points. I, for one, don't want to be in a hug box and welcome more viewpoints.

[@donjohnson7491]

@masebreakface3426 When it comes to politics, no. He bull rushes the other host and tries to speak over anyone else who disagrees. I don't mind him on some topics, but yeah.

[@stellar8healing]

This was great.

[@jacoballen4591]

It makes all the difference if you put peanut butter down on the bread with a knife and THEN scoop jelly out with a spoon onto the peanut butter. Not the other slice of bread. Then pop the other slice (bare as my ass at night) on to the jelly engrossed peanut butter and man it tastes so much better.

[@salmark9080]

The real problem is that a lot of these games are just lame. There aren’t any new interesting IPs to reel in new audiences compared to back in the day there would be more risks taken. Aw2 spiderman 2 and a lot of these games just have lame and cringe things going on regardless of how you look at it.

[@Mitsurifan357]

What’s cringe about Alan Wake 2, clown?

[@ltw126]

There should’ve been a black man or black woman on this podcast. I’m glad that at least Gene was on here.

[@MrCalalf]

I look at sweet baby inc and for me personally it’s something that I can’t see myself getting upset at honestly and don’t really seeing myself boycotting games cause they were involved with a game. I do think it’s overblown to an extent.

[@asdfxcvbn746]

you're part of the problem. its like if you heard the KKK was involved in funding a school your kids went to & then you're like "well, they haven't killed anyone RECENTLY so its not a big deal." these organizations get big & take over because of people's laissez faire attitude towards it.

[@MrCalalf]

Are you comparing a company that does consulting for game devs to a hate group killing people??? That’s such a false dichotomy, like these two groups aren’t anywhere near each other. and if I did find out a school was funded by the KKK and was spewing their garbage rhetoric to the students there, my kid wouldn’t have even step in their in the first place.

[@ashamedmadman996]

Epic! 🎉

[@bigbox1431]

I'm just thankful that multiplayer continues to take over the industry. This conversation shrinks more and more every year.

[@AlexCaste]

I understand a lot of Colin's points except for when he mentions taking away immutable characteristics altogether. I would love for him to get a black or Asian or Hispanic person to agree with him on that point before he brings it up again - because he won't find one. It may be overemphasized in today's culture sometimes, but it is still necessary.

[@alexescorza8120]

I agree with him

[@taco780]

Im hispanic, i agree with him

[@marloncarrero6575]

I’m brazilian, and I agree with him. I don’t want characters to change, make new stories featuring other backgrounds, don’t change old ones

[@Bingchirringg]

Imagine thinking you can speak for entire demographics, then being wrong immediately. Best practice is not to speak for other people.

[@deathproof8732]

I'm Hispanic and I think what Colin said totally nailed it. But when you tell them that they call you a white adjacent racist

[@guywhosbored7]

Loved what everyone brought to the table. As a leftist, listening to LSM is a complex relationship. It's exactly what Hoeg was saying about how we all want improvements to the media we love but just see it from a different perspective. I completely understand where Colin is coming from, but I agree with Jason that not everyone making the arguments that Colin makes are coming from the same position as him. Maybe I'm wrong but to me it feels like for every Colin (well intentioned, right leaning media personality), there's 15 Quarterings (ragebait driven, kinda racist personalities). While I personally don't see the reason for the vitriol around SBI (except for their shitty name), I'm cool with everyone doing what works for them.

[@erikmclennan3934]

The Quartering isn't just ragebait - he's part of the reason this issue has even been able to come to light, because he's been covering it for years and taking the slings and arrows, which Colin has not, god love him....he's only speaking up now that it's a mainstream conversation.

[@MrCalalf]

Yeah as someone who does lean more liberal, its nice to see different opinions on a topic, even if I disagree with some of the point brought to the table.

[@erikmclennan3934]

@@MrCalalf kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnPWiZt5o9SKjsUsi=YotZc2Rzgs27wsgC There is an example from 5 years ago. Generally (and this goes as far back as the original GamerGate, circa 2013), is that there is a sub-industry within gaming, which is trying to push certain political agendas, using gaming as a vehicle. White men bad, masculinity bad, etc. Search The Quartering Anita Sarkeesian for craploads of examples. If you look into this with a mind to learn in an unbiased manner, you will find plenty to look at.

[@Bingchirringg]

Calling Quartering “kind of racist” really shows your ignorance, and lack of research. How many times do people have to say they don’t care what race, or background you come from before you stop screaming bigot from the hilltops?

[@battlep0t]

@@erikmclennan3934 I agree with OP as a fellow left leaning viewer of this channel - I just don't know how anyone can see channels like Quartering, Geeks + Gamers, Nerdrotic etc. as anything other than disingenuous grifters who game the youtube algorithm by using the low hanging fruit of the culture war to pump out dozens of videos per week. I think these channels are more harmful for your message than useful. You probably agree with their politics so you see more value in what they do but at least with Colin even though we don't agree personally I feel like he puts more value into creating a discussion than filling their bank balance.

[@EntertainmentBreeze]

31:00

[@DLan720]

Colin, does Matt Walsh really have to be a video game fan in order to call out racism in the industry? Kind of a weird take. You’re not a film buff but do you really have no place calling out racism if you saw it in the film industry? Racism is racism wherever it takes place.

[@salmark9080]

It’s more that Matt Walsh has been very dismissive of the gaming community and doesn’t even show any effort to know what’s going on most of the time.

[@DLan720]

Yeah thats fine. I’m dismissive of the anime community but I still think I should be able to say racism in the anime community is not okay.

[@brianyoung9436]

@@DLan720you can say whatever you want but then why should anyone in the anime community care what you have to say about anime?

[@salmark9080]

@@DLan720 yeh but then why should they care what you have to say as brianyoung states. There’s value in things I don’t care about, it’s a multi front culture war and millions of kids are exposed to this. No one should be belittling anyone

[@DLan720]

@@brianyoung9436because it wouldn’t be about the anime. It would be about the racism being espoused by the creators of the anime. I feel like I already made this point, but here it is again for you.

[@_avoid]

This Atari guy is a total gaslighter and it’s actually insane to listen to. I suppose he knows what they’ll do to him if he doesn’t play ball, though.

[@GenePark]

I wish you guys would stop using language like “gaslighter” without actually 1. Backing it up and 2. Insulting our guest who took time out of his busy day to talk with us.

[@GoroOno]

@@GenePark I suppose he is referring to the tenor of everything he was saying. He was acting as if there's nothing going on, claims he still doesn't understand what gamergate is etc. If those are his real positions, then he hasn't been paying attention to anything, but he works in the industry, so of course he is aware of the landscape, which naturally leads you to the conclusion that he isn't being sincere.

[@TheLastDaysOfSorrow]

@@GoroOno definitely raised an eyebrow when he said that he went through the whole Kim Belair gdc session and came out in agreement. Seeing DEI as a necessary tool for consultation on game development is one thing, shrugging off people openly admitting that they leverage the cancel mob to fear monger their way into the industry with proven racists at their side another.

[@MrLightlike78]

@@TheLastDaysOfSorrow Right? Kim Belair whinging (rightfully so) that she had approved reading lists shoved down her throat as a kid only to become an adult and do the same thing is...really something.

[@bfg3013]

This episode is missing the black perspective so bad. This is kinda a terrible listen for AA

[@SquishMe]

collin can't wait to talk over people, smh