Gaza: Is the ICJ Ruling Enough? with Tayab Ali

The recent ICJ interim order has been interpreted in many ways by its proponents, that hail it a victory and its opponents that denounce it as a anti Israeli conspiracy. But many have questioned the efficacy of the interim order, pointing to the ICJ’s lack of enforcement and the absence of an explicit mention of a ceasefire. To help us understand the complexities surrounding the judgement we have invited at short notice, Tayab Ali in once again.
Tayab Ali, is a lawyer specialising in international law. He is a partner at the legal firm Bindmans. He has represented clients in the Supreme Court and European Court of Human Rights and at international political and legal institutions, including the United Nations, the International Criminal Court and the African Commission of Human and Peoples’ Rights.
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#thethinkingmuslimpodcast episode135
Timestamps:
00:00 Introduction

[@MendeMaria-ej8bf]

As a lay person it's hard to understand that no international institution or organisation is willing and capable to stop a plausible genocide. Every day that goes by about 200 people are killed and the immense suffering continues, while meetings and conferences are held, experts are interviewed, people protest, activists try to draw attention, but there's no change.

[@missnlahi]

You're correct, it's baffling.

[@MendeMaria-ej8bf]

@@missnlahi ❤

[@abukar1145]

Its the plan of Allah, to show you that you cant trust anything or anyone but Allah. Presidents, Kings, International law, United Nation all of these people and organizations are Garbage wastes of time. Allah is sufficent for the Believers@@MendeMaria-ej8bf

[@camouflage962]

just ask CUI BONO.... it will always reveal the truth

[@paulheydarian1281]

The hard bitter truth is that the Palestinians are a poor and powerless people. There's no financial or strategic incentive for anyone to help them. This is why the Palestiniamnd can only get even poorer friends like the Houthis in Yemen or other poor countries in the Global South.

[@MisterTea123]

"The Palestinian struggle is not just a cry for justice. It’s a blistering battle for the most fundamental human rights that every living soul on this planet should inherit by birthright. It’s an unyielding resistance against the oppressive, suffocating grip of occupation and the callous denial of the most basic human dignity ... The battle for justice in Palestine is not merely a political struggle. It's an elemental moral battle ... If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed and loving the people who are doing the oppressing. I implore every person of conscience, regardless of their origins or beliefs, to stand steadfast with the Palestinian people in their unwavering quest for justice." - Malcolm X

[@m.y.7097]

🙏🏼 for posting this

[@MisterTea123]

Apparently the speech is a fake! But blisteringly eloquent tho... kzbin.info/www/bejne/bpfcfGWiqJiUiaMsi=n3TcyTpo-epYtPRl

[@inkipinki8468]

It’s everybody’s fight! The Global Elites seek to control the population to serve them. We need to teach them we are not having it! We will use whatever tools and means!

[@user-iz1hp1si5o]

Please stop the killing and suffering of the innocent people of Palestine how can anyone watch the suffering of those innocent children and those babies have a heart ❤️

[@luqman265]

Have to commend Mr. Tayab for the work he is doing for brothers and sisters in Palestine. I wish and pray his efforts bear notable results. Highly insightful video.

[@brainworks2022]

Does it surprise anyone that in both cases, Myanmar and Gaza, it was Muslims who were the subject of genocide and in both cases the ICJ ruling was shy of a ceasefire?

[@camouflage962]

NO !

[@annoloki]

...notice the PM of the UK is of Hindu background... no doubt effects of the civil war from the partition of India affects his opinion of Muslims, he probably grew up hearing all kinds of stories.

[@justlooking4202]

The exact same thing happened with Bosnia in the 90s. The only reason the West eventually intervened was because the Bosnians started winning and they were afraid of having a strong Muslim army in Europe.

[@camouflage962]

It indeed appears quite mind-soothing listening to such a well structured and intelligent, truth seeking discourse - I highly appreciate it. Thank you very much for your endured efforts !

[@siddeekadam]

May God reward Tayab Ali for his efforts and perseverance. God chooses people He is pleased with to execute tasks that lead to the downfall of evil doers. I hope and pray for Tayab Ali to be such a person that God is pleased with and facilitates him to succeed in this endeavour. Ameen.

[@SumayyahPetrusArtDesign]

Another excellent interview, clearly explained information, measured and informative. Thank you for such a quality post.

[@peakjvs4967]

Great interview.

[@user-pf7tf3rf1u]

Great discussion and explanation.

[@alib7489]

Looking forward to this one insha'Allah

[@robertthorn184]

Brilliant and refreshing.🙏

[@janedasilva7792]

Thank you so much for this conversation!! It was very helpful!!

[@vickysharpe11]

Brilliantly explained 👌 Alhamdulillah for such lawyers in our midst 🤲💖

[@user-bt5vd3hv4y]

Lol...your lawyers are handsomely paid to pretend they can do something effective...kinda like Hamas millionaire leaders....lol.

[@mariasaba2620]

Professor Tayab Ali is awsome . Thank you for this very informative interview.

[@aishakhatoon9647]

Excellent explanation. Thank you this needs to be seen and heard by all including the international communities.

[@user-dk9sm7vt1p]

Tayab is a WINNER

[@toriverdin3692]

Kudos Tayab Ali for all this urgent and necessary work you do! 💪🏽✊🏽✨Thank you for bringing us hope in this hopeless times 🙌🏽 And to Muhammad Jalal and all The Thinking Muslim team kudos too, and thank you so so much for creating these well prepared and enlightening interviews! 💪🏽 Justice must prevail! 🌟✊🏽

[@user-ew9tn1bw6q]

Best explanation yet!!! By far!!! 👍🏼👏🏼❤️

[@user-ew9tn1bw6q]

Israel got nothing from the ICJ Interim decision (people seem to forget it’s a mere interim decision only). The SA Application was wholly successful. The ICJ could not,given Hamas was not a party to the proceedings order a ceasefire. At the end of the day Israel continues its genocidal actions

[@peacenow6618]

جزاک اللہ خیرا

[@mohammedsaid58]

This is another excellent podcast from The Thinking Muslim. The topic is extremely relevant to the cause of the day, if not the cause of the century. The interlocutor is very knowledgeable about the topic and very eloquent in explaining the intricate legal issues. This podcast must be watched by all people who want to be educated on this topic no matter which side they happen to be on. Well done! Jazakum Allah khairan.

[@silmf3613]

Why is the US continuing to declare support for Israel after the provisionary ruling? Also helping to defund UNRWA, when both these actions makes them complicit to plausible genicide.

[@90chestnut]

Because the western countries, in particular the US still believe themselves untouchable and above the law. The US invaded Iraq without any legal basis and caused tremendous suffering and destruction. But since they are not members to the ICC and also passed a law to allow the US government to invade the Netherlands if any US citizen should be tried for warcrimes in front of the ICC, they quite literally deem themselves to be allowed to bring death and destruction to the world without impunity.

[@camouflage962]

"rule of law"... as an universally applicable principle had been cancelled long time ago... first gradually, then drastically....

[@Mairaaax]

Super insightful

[@Marjane-jk3qo3yj7m]

Thank you. Brother Muhammad, what do you think about inviting Norman Finkelstein?

[@samaramaxutova6777]

Thank you very much for the discussion! It was very helpful to understand the outcome of the court case. Jazak Allahu Khairan, brothers!!

[@MendeMaria-ej8bf]

Maybe they are 'not necessarily bad people', but they are certainly opportunistic, corrupt or lack integrity. And it's outrageous that courageous people are threatened, fired, silenced and even arrested.

[@camouflage962]

welcome to brave new world

[@Kaway_K]

Very insightful and informative.

[@mutawi3i]

Splendid work habibi. Well done guys.

[@user-qs3qj4gp7w]

Plausible is the most important word used in this icj judgement that western so called democracy should pay attention to

[@peacenow6618]

May Allah Accept your works, and make it a means of acceptance and Guidance for the Ummah!

[@sandybartkus6225]

US GOVT has given their power to DUAL CITIZENSHIP ISRAELIS. AIPAC WAKE UP

[@eastern2western]

It takes a military force to stop another military force. It is really that simple.

[@fatimah9202]

Jazaa kAllahu khairah fid daarain

[@marylou3995]

I had to leave early, it’s too sad for me.

[@easyy1912]

Thank you for work brilliant work💪🇵🇸

[@silenceisgolden3238]

Jailbroken ChatGPT’s answer to “should the current war against Gaza be considered Genocide?” “From a purely statistical perspective, the situation in Gaza presents alarming indicators of widespread harm and suffering among the civilian population. The high number of casualties, displacement, and destruction of infrastructure reflect a dire humanitarian crisis. While the term "genocide" may not strictly apply in a legal sense, the scale of suffering and loss of life cannot be understated. Understanding the situation through statistical data highlights the urgent need for international attention and action to address the root causes and alleviate the suffering of those affected.”

[@camouflage962]

programmed and fed by whom..... ?

[@EytanKoch]

So: not genocide. Thanks, chatGPT!

[@hadiyahalkauthar]

The ICJ has no jurisdiction over Hamas, hence, they could have only ordered Israel to stop all military activities.

[@fatimah9202]

A free Palestine means a free World, we must never give up! HasbunAllahu wa nimal wakeel ni'mal mawla wa ni'man naseer. May Allah forgive us for taking so long to understand the severity of what was really going on in Palestine. May Allah enable us to fight for the freedom of Palestine and to help the oppressed allover the World with prayer, aid, creating awareness, and whatever little we are able to do. For our prophet Muhammad peace be upon him had advised us to be charitable, helpful, kind, and chivalrous

[@annoloki]

It should be understood that the population of Western Sahara are in a very similar situation, with the state of Morocco being their "Israel". It's pretty brutal. Here's a good primer kzbin.info/www/bejne/fJDPe6eXj6t5ppI

[@user-bt5vd3hv4y]

Palestine will NEVER be free....Not because I don't want it...but because God has said so. :-( Sorry man....

[@90chestnut]

Thank you for this analysis of the ICJ ruling and the potential consequences. I share the view that this ruling is a big step forward, even if it did not amount to the order of a ceasefire. The points adressed about the prevalence and persistance of rule based international order is critical. This is where "ordinary people" in the western countries can make a difference. If you have the means to, please speak up. Please join protests. Please adress your political representatives. We can help to hold the governments accountable, that have been and continue to be complicit in Israels crimes. We can change public opinion to end the complicity and to bring the criminals in our governments to justice at the ICC and national courts.

[@fatima40098]

Every thing in this world double standing 🤲🤲🤲🤲

[@nickylo2178]

We are living in the most dangerous of times, when power wants to trump right, in short FASCISM.

[@un9794]

If you ever think you’re useless. Just think about ICJ.

[@SwitzerlandEducation4471]

No Iam Jew but now support the innocent people of Palestine from 🇨🇭

[@CraigTheBrute-yf7no]

You should read the Quran the final revelation

[@SwitzerlandEducation4471]

@@CraigTheBrute-yf7no how

[@CraigTheBrute-yf7no]

@@SwitzerlandEducation4471 kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIa3Ymp3n7GGbLMsi=KBqPuO3yK1l4oXjE

[@c0detearz320]

​​@@SwitzerlandEducation4471search - the clear qur'an pdf on Google should come up, it does in the UK

[@sikiyahomarmoussa8191]

Thank you for your support

[@islandknight6105]

No.

[@sandybartkus6225]

The FINAL JUDGEMENT WONT COME FOR YEARS and he knows that

[@lynneholdaway5133]

What frustrates me is while the ICC hears all the testimonials meanwhile the horrendous plight of the Palestinians continues.

[@aidanoconnell4785]

I'm not a Muslim I'm a Humanist and I am glad I found this channel, I praise South Africa for its courage. I desire for a safe and secure Palestinian State with Security Guarantees for all in the region. Thank you from Ireland 🇮🇪

[@khaderlander2429]

Humanism is not science, but religion - the post-Christian faith that humans can make a world better than any in which they have so far lived. In pre-Christian Europe it was taken for granted that the future would be like the past. Knowledge and invention might advance, but ethics would remain much the same. History was a series of cycles, with no overall meaning. Against this pagan view, Christians understood history as a story of sin and redemption. Humanism is the transformation of this Christian doctrine of salvation into a project of universal human emancipation. The idea of progress is a secular version of the Christian belief in providence. That is why among the ancient pagans it was unknown. Belief in progress has another source. In science, the growth of knowledge is cumulative. But human life as a whole is not a cumulative activity; what is gained in one generation may be lost in the next. In science, knowledge is an unmixed good; in ethics and politics it is bad as well as good. Science increases human power - and magnifies the flaws in human nature. It enables us to live longer and have higher living standards than in the past. At the same time it allows us to wreak destruction - on each other and the Earth - on a larger scale than ever before.

[@pauljackson9519]

In paragraph 85 of the decision, the ICJ "calls upon" Hamas and any other groups to release the hostages. That is not part of the decision. It is not included in the provisional orders. Also, Ali says that the ruling issues very specific orders about not targeting hospitals etc. No it doesn't. It says to stop killing Gazan civilians. It doesn't specify where. It simply cites section II of the Genocide Convention and tells Israel to stop violating it.

[@abdullahal8374]

This podcast could be more precise, to the point, straightforward, a little less elaborative 😢 I who doesn't belong to law background find this really difficult to comprehend

[@strangestuff1213]

Evil flourishes when good men do nothing - If you know this man, protect him at all costs - Free Palestine

[@lloydjohn5392]

Yes they bad

[@camouflage962]

... whallahi... the entire affair became sick to an extent making anything humanity claims being proud of as achievements of so-called "socio-cultural" evolution and development became void....deception 24/7

[@naasikhendricks1501]

Look at California Case of Genocide.

[@annoloki]

It was thrown out :-( "on January 31, 2024, the court found that Israel’s assault and siege on the Palestinian people in Gaza plausibly constitute genocide and “implor[ed]” the Biden administration to examine its “unflagging support” for Israel. Notwithstanding these findings, the court denied the plaintiffs' preliminary injunction motion and granted the government's motion to dismiss the case on the grounds that it lacked jurisdiction over the administration’s conduct of foreign relations."

[@adampatel3132]

Dont seek justice from the courts of tawagheet seek justice from Allah and the way He instructed the believers to act.

[@naasikhendricks1501]

19:59 hostages of october of 7th.

[@xappuxok]

You lost your direction and you were going to start talking about the enforcibility of this. You started working through that process and went off the tangent and started about all kind of abstract things. Still in the dark on the process of trying to enforce these orders

[@nizal9388]

Israel can operate how it wants because it has military might and is backed by USUK who are also militarily active in the region. International institutions have no teeth. The muslim world needs to decolonise by removing its puppet colonial regimes and establish its own military might. Expecting NATO or UN to step on for palestine is wishfull thinking. Yemen is poor but is doing the right thing.

[@sybilxulu4851]

Netanyahu it seems meant it when he said ' no one can stop us'. He respects nobody, nit his people, not the UN, not the ICJ and definitely not God.

[@FG-md6ls]

:

[@michaelb1348]

The ICJ did not tell Israel to stop doing anything. It just said that it must prevent acts of genocide (not stop doing them). So it basically just set out what Israel's obligations are under the genocide convention ... nothing new. It didn't order a cease fire as it has not yet been shown that there is genocide. The only affirmative order that was given was to Hamas when it ordered the unconditional release of all hostages.

[@MisterTea123]

No, there was a plausible case of genocide currently occurring that was determined by the ICJ. As a result, Israel is required to do XYZ to ensure it doesn't happen. There is also an affirmative order of a written report that Israel must submit within a month to demonstrate compliance, which both the ICJ judges and South African legal team will scrutinise.

[@hesterwright3674]

They specified actions they must take, such as letting aid in and stopping the killings of civilians.

[@annoloki]

Plus a "ceasefire" is usually a term that applies to warring armies between two states... what's happening in Gaza isn't a war, it's an extermination campaign. The court certainly did not "order" Hamas to do anything, they "called upon" which was not something done in any official capacity, as the court only has jurisdiction over member states who have laws on their books giving the court jurisdiction. The US would have to stop blocking Palestinian state membership of the UN before any UN body could act in any official capacity with respect to Palestine.

[@michaelb1348]

@@MisterTea123 there’s a war going on and innocent people are dying. So the courts hands are tied in that respect. But all it did was allow the case to be heard. Israel does not need to stop doing anything. It will show and provide evidence that it is taking measures to mitigate civilian casualties and continue with its just war against the terrorists.

[@EytanKoch]

⁠@@MisterTea123Plausible genocide? Lowest bar ever. The Genocide Convention states: “genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group.” That “in part” phrase could mean that even if one person is killed, it could be genocide, which is crazy of course. So yes, the Court said genocide was plausible. Means nothing. There’s a presumption of innocence under international law. So until the court rules on the merits of the case, Israel is - under international law - not committing genocide.

[@user-go7in7rw7r]

Vai pro tanque esse dai kkkkk

[@raziaforte3698]

How should we get like minded people as requeated by Sh. omar. Ba lock . Ref: his topic on YT is what to do with an ummah without leader and leadership. Interview of Shaykh will be very usegul for the porticipants. He is aware of this coming election times, and its consequences. See below..

[@javairiamohammed1970]

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

[@trevormarnies2768]

States are Artificial Persons or Juristic Persons.

[@jaialaiwarrior]

Enough to do something about your Hamas friends? Why don't you interview them? It's almost like you're intentionally avoiding that whole part.

[@anshuraj4277]

Live in West Yet hate it... Amazing

[@cogthusiast1150]

Many Westerners hate their own governments, amazing. You're ignorant, not amazing.

[@MisterTea123]

Hate corruption and hypocrisy wherever it is and whatever garb it assumes

[@annoloki]

You seem to have emotional problems that means you take things personally that are nothing to do with you. The problem is with mass murder. It has nothing to do with where he lives.

[@user-pf7tf3rf1u]

Are donors responsible for politicians views?

[@annoloki]

In large part yes, although the system of donors isn't quite as simple as people giving money to politicians... paying politicians gets expensive, as you have to keep paying, you have to pay more, and you have to start all over again anytime that person is voted out. Instead, more money is spent on negative publicity against anyone who doesn't see things in the right way. And these campaigns will use anything to attack somebody, completely independent of what the real reason is. That way, you know that anybody who makes it through the filter is somebody who is a true believer, and you can support them financially, but you don't have to "buy" them. The big means of doing this is through media ownership, or organised relationships with media outlets through things like think tanks, NGOs etc. So it's less that any individual is corrupted by bribes etc, and more that the entire system that acts as a filter to decide who even gets into positions of power is corrupt... iow, it's the information system itself that is corrupt, and public opinion itself is sold to the highest bidder.

[@CharlesFlato-wn2qf]

The thinking Muslim? Perhaps he should have "thought" before October the 7th. Perhaps he should think about this: As long as lsreal exists lran and other Muslim Natipns will exist.

[@cogthusiast1150]

You have zero percent coherence.

[@annoloki]

You think he only started thinking after Oct 7? Perhaps your mom shouldn't have drank so heavily when pregnant with you

[@Antizionist17]

Everyone should subscribe to this channel

[@essem123]

Hi brother taleb Hamas did state the day before order they would abide by any order