German Jager Pistol

Today we have a video for you on a German "Jager" pistol, so named because it was made by the Jager company. Jager was a well-respected maker of high quality sporting arms, having been established in 1901 in Suhl, Germany. With the onset of World War One, Kaiser Wilhelm decreed that all arms manufacture would be directed to military needs, and Jager responded by designing this pistol for use by the officers' corps. It was not formally adopted by the German army, but several thousand were purchased privately and used by German officers.
The pistol is very interesting mechanically, because it uses two stamped sideplates and separate milled front and rear straps instead of a single solid frame. As far as we can tell, it was the first pistol made using stampings for major components, is its construction method remains unique to this day. So let's take a closer look!
If you're interested in seeing more details than we could address in the video, we have a link to a whole slew of great photos taken by the pistol's owner:
www.forgottenwe...

[@cg8212]

I realize I'm several years late on commenting, but I just had a very good thought on how this design could be advantageous. What's the heart and soul of any repeating firearm? The magazine. What is usually looked at as the first culprite of a FTF? Magazine. What usually has problems on an initial firearm offering or prototype? Magazine. With a design philosophy such as this, as a (hypothetical) amateur manufacturer, I would spend significant R&D time on making the ideal cartridge /capacity /angle combo for my magazine, then use this frameless setup either for initial proof of concept /mock up, or further refinement before committing to a traditional frame design.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Or he just did not have the machines for a one piece frame.

[@heinzhaupthaar5590]

@@Ugly_German_Truths It's simple and should be very inexpensive in manufacture. I think that's the rationale here, stamped sheet metal is always a economical option.

[@bumpercoach]

seems like Keltec did it w/ the new p17 in 22 using polymer as almost all do these days for frames

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It's on the right sideplate, ahead of the trigger guard. It is also stamped on the inside of the front strap, and the last 3 digits are stamped on most of the major parts internally.

[@flashfire201robloxlegosand8]

Forgotten Weapons Which part would the BATFE consider to be the firearm? The trunion?

[@Oblithian]

@@flashfire201robloxlegosand8 hahaha

[@RealLuckless]

From what I can see in your video and how the parts are laid out, I believe the slide could very well be stamped out from a flat plate cut with machining details. Basically just folding down the side wings. I don't think the design goal was to save tooling time, but rather materials. To do the slide out of a solid block would mean milling away more than half the material. By folding the 'wings' down from a flat plate you keep maybe 80% stock material in the finished part.

[@irvlalonde3915]

There could have been multiple stamping passes. I agree that the milling process would be wasteful.

[@HUFFMASTER89]

"He very generously let us borrow it" Proceeds to drop it LOL

[@marthagraham241]

Franz Jäger was my grandfather. My father Kurt Jäger carried on in his footsteps in the West.

[@merrypickster7824]

I just watched this and the Frommer pistol back to back, its nice contrast to see the over engineered Frommer with one of the weakest rounds and then watch how simple this piece is, really cool Ian, love your videos and the amount of research that goes into them, thank you

[@carlrudd1858]

fascinating pistol. Well done video. Thanks for NOT having a lot of hideous loud blaring rock music, and for NOT starting out "Hey Everyone!".

[@Robaxism]

Best channel on KZbin. Never fails to amaze me how you guys get hold of all this hardware. Really love the way you explain how it all works!

[@chapiit08]

The slide could have been hot stamped or bent to quasi final shape and then machined to fit. I remember seeing a somehow similar gun built in the 1950's by the Mahely firm from Argentina, the gun was a semiauto pistol in .22LR caliber whose laminated frame was composed of a number of steel plates riveted toghether to basically give shape to every crevice and recess of the interior of the frame, including the magazine well. Definitelly a quite easy to make-at-home manufacturing process.

[@Lrofmaulol]

Sweet. I actually went to the firearms museum in Suhl. I live practically right next to the city, only 30km away near Meiningen :D Greetings from germany!

learning the whys and hows of a machines workings and design solutions has always fascinated me. operating the machine? not so much. this is the most interesting firearms channel i have found on the net. keep cranking them out and i'll keep watching them. thanks

[@vguyver2]

+Dana Herron Agreed, I'm not a lover of guns, but the mechanical aspects and labor into them I LOVE. This channel does justice to all the work put into these instruments of precision and destruction.

[@vguyver2]

Dana Herron thanks fantastic, going to look up that video. I grew up reading Popular Science and Popular Mechanics. Unfortunately, I never got put into that direction in life. The internet has allowed folks like us enthusiasts to work and share these details more so than those magazines could cover back in their heyday. Now I can make ballista replicas in the yard, mold a rubber hammer prop, and see a guy on youtube disassemble rare firearms, and show how they function. We live in awesome times.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

I haven't checked in detail, but I assume that one of the sideplates is arbitrarily defined as the receiver (just like Maxim and Browning machine guns).

[@BrooksideFarmBarreMA]

I think you'll find the slide was hot-stamped and then machined. The concave in the side-plate (left-hand side) is easily possible with stamping.

[@2soupbone]

And folks complain about the Ruger Mk III take-down procedure..... Great series.

[@Wolfrick308]

This is exactly relevant to a project I'm working on right now! Thanks so much for bringing us this really neat pistol.

[@garywemmer9342]

Oh, those crazy Germans! Always making such interesting products!

[@ForgottenWeapons]

It would have been made during WWI, but I don't know of any data allowing a more specific date from the serial number. As for replacement parts, unfortunately I think you are out of luck. The only option is to find a machinist to fabricate one from scratch - there simply aren't any parts for these pistols out there.

[@geoffedwards-tb4kp]

Another beautiful looking pistol,a lot of the early 1900s auto pistols are gorgeous

[@markpelenytschka8374]

Fascinating, thank you for sharing. Very simple and well explained

[@dengate6]

I have one of these Jager, from my great uncle, who brought it back from WWII Europe. Took me five years to find a repreduction magazine, but now it shoots great, even with the not so good sights, manage about 2" groups at 10M. It is missing the safety lever, and has a serial #8076. Any info about manufacture date, or were I could even start looking for a replacement part would be greatly appreciated.

[@TheGearhead222]

Definitely a different way to make a pistol! John in Texas

[@codeman1979]

Obviously simple and quick field stripping was not a priority

[@FargoMarc]

Interesting pistol! Thanks for sharing this!

[@christianmuller4576]

I have been watching the Chanel for a while it’s always fun going back in time and watching some of your early videos always great!

[@Henryk516]

Thank you Ian for a really professional lecture on the pistol. Strange configuration but then, what these people did is simply clever beyond belief. No frame, imagine that.

[@weIfed]

Ya know just out here strolling through old forgotten weapons videos on a Saturday

[@tulius01]

Thanks a lot! Absolutely fantastic and detailed video. The Jaeger pistol could be produced in a small tool shop without the need of big machinery and the machine work that had to be done to produce the pistol is not complicated either.

[@gusswilliams]

Thanks Ian......great vid.....I think with this pistol you need to remember its a century old or more....auto pistols were pretty new.....engineers still feeling their way....love your posts.....keep it up

[@annelmanson]

A little gem of a presentation.Production values an issue.Ian and crew learned tremendously over the past year.Way to go! Makes me wonder how far this design could be pushed..38,.357,9mm?modern.40?Probably not. 45.How would a longer barrel affect things?Modern plastics for the side plates with tool steel inserts.Plastic slide?Mix a Remington 66 with this design,nylon bearing areas needing little lubrication.Great project for a senior engineering student.Too bad no old factory photos.

[@anderwmarcell9503]

Excellent presentation of a rare weapon. I noticed that the holster only has an ammo pouch and no spare magazine.Like a smaller ReichsRevolver 1883 holster. The Jager was a lower cost weapon for officers who had to buy their own sidearm. There were pistol shortages in 1915 so Sauer 1913,Mauser 1910&1914,Beholla/Lionheart/Stenda (all the same design) Langenhan ,Frommer Stop,Steyr 7.65 and Dryse07 were the German alternates along with Belgian Captures and countless revolvers. The Jager is rarest.

[@dr.feelgood.m]

Thank god you got static close-up camera in the new videos ! the green background + camera shake + bad focus = headache XD

[@toolthoughts]

once again a great video! that trigger setup is really neat.

[@ps2hacker]

Clearly taking cues from JM Brownings's FN 1908 pistol with the barrel used as the guide for the recoil spring.

[@RaggedVentures]

I love these simple, clever designs.

[@VegasCyclingFreak]

Fascinating handgun with a very interesting construction concept.

[@manuellujan666]

Had to go way back for an episode I hadn't seen 10 times already

[@vinceparke5740]

That is beautiful simplicity.

[@DudeNumberOnePlus]

I think i actually seen few pistols that may have the magwells milled - one side of the magwell is opened on the side from top to bottom, and the hole is just covered with the scales. cz70 comes to mind. Also Makarov is designed with easy machining in mind, im sure the whole makarov frame is just milled.

[@hglasier]

A video on the MG 34 would be interesting. It's trigger seems unique. Would also love to see a video on a G11 or the G11K2. On the other hand I have found every gun you have come up fascinating so don't think I'm listing demands.

[@MRMcLobster]

this would take me a million years to get back together.

[@thatfriggingbathroom2656]

If I put this back together myself I sure wouldn't dare shoot it anymore

[@bigDbigDbigD]

Brilliant design.

[@skylessadim]

Ok so for anyone who sees this comment I actually wants some advice. I’m designing fictional weapons for an animation that my friend and I are making. I like the design of the pistol, the slide to be precise. Do you think I can scale up the caliber and maybe even add a slide release/catch. Any advice would help thank you.

[@ihateemael]

Hi Ian, with regards to the construction & looking at the L/H side plate: the groove for the recoil spring and the curved top-edge(the extractor?) could all be formed with stamping and "finishing". Difficult to see but the "machined edge" looks like another stamped piece sandwiched over the side plate to build up strength. Does this help your argument of this being a mostly stamped product? Or maybe I'm completely wrong, wouldn't be the first! Anyway thanks so much I really enjoy your videos.

[@zachmdful]

Thanks for pronouncing the name of it correctly. :D

[@jefferyburke5717]

Great work thank you. This one is unique and interesting. The mN keep his affairs in order while seemingly complying BRILANT. I also like the high command remark Blick sheet metal crap LOL. WELL DONE

[@frankbrowning328]

I'm sure this pistol is of very good to excellent quality. However, I wonder if the shape of this pistol was the inspiration for the Sheridan Knockabout 22 pistol . The Sheridan (A single shot 22 pistol) bears a very strong resemblance in form only to the Jager in shape

[@5chr4pn3ll]

I'm happy that your tripod got more stable in your later videos

[@colbeausabre8842]

I was curious about how big an operation Jager had so I did a net search and came up withJager's life story - he worked in the US and married here before heading home ! Plenty of pictures of gorgeous bespoke hunting weapons www.germanhuntingguns.com/archives/archive-jaeger-franz/"Franz Jaeger designed the “Jaeger Pistol” in a period of 3 months. It was far ahead of the times and used steel stampings and castings, something unheard of at the time. The army rejected it for official use with one word: “Blech” (sheet metal). Nevertheless, the Jaeger factory produced about 15,000 of the pistols which gave work and an income to his employees."Article - Jager's Inventions www.germanhuntingguns.com/feature-articles/franz-jaegers-best-inventions/

[@amphibiousone7972]

Great Engineering lesson Boss, Thanks 😊

[@nukehayes8346]

Love the videos and reviews. Keep it up Ian, thank you so much for your knowledge and time.

[@ForgottenWeapons]

No, after the trigger is pulled the disconnector stops the firing pin from going forward to fire a second round. Could you send me photos of your Chropei pistol? I would be very interested in seeing it. My address is admin at forgottenweapons. Thanks!

[@anderwmarcell9503]

The side with the cut for the trigger bar is necessary for function therefore it is the receiver.

[@aramagoo]

There are a number of microscopes and x-rays that can be used to determine if metal work was machined or stamped.

[@LAu-zg8cx]

This thing is really brilliant! Thanks for sharing

[@gadsdenguy4880]

That's a hella steep feed ramp.

[@DocM.]

Fuck ya it is lol 😂 looks like the round is going from horizontal to vertical and back to horizontal!

[@ForgottenWeapons]

No, just an ordinary Czech Mauser.

[@Fredasmon]

How am I supposed to find the time to study for my exams when you upload videos like this?

[@festungmittlewesten3108]

This pistol looks incredible. I can assume that this bugger is quite accurate.

[@yannkitson116]

Interesting design. Thanks for sharing.

[@Glocker85]

this was a really good video, thanks

[@davebeckley2584]

I'm quite a few years late in watching this but I have to say that when comparing this to your later videos I'm pleased to see you have fired your camera operator.

[@rooseveltbrentwood9654]

when i saw the thumbnail i thought it was a ww2 last ditch weapon

[@trooperturner]

Mate I love you vids. One bit of positive criticism though use your screwdriver or similar to pint out components of a weapon it looks more professional and it's how we roll in the oz army. Just sayin. Keep up the good work! PS can you guys do a review of an L42A1 Enfield ? I just bought one and I want to see some more info on the tube.

[@v8felon]

thanks for the videos

[@MadSpectro7]

That trigger bar really reminds me of the P38 mechanism.

[@weapon131]

i think its write with Ä and your videos are really good!

[@batwing-plays]

Doesn't seem like you aged a day in these 10 years, Ian. That's a true show of your gun Jesus powers :)

[@fdmackey3666]

Germany has a long history of firearms invention and design. I'm not 100% certain but I think a WWII-Korea Veteran friend of mine has two of the "Jager" pistols in his rather extensive firearms collection. I'm going to email him, and if that is the case let you know. The two pistols I am thinking of are in firing (almost new) condition and were "secured" by him in 1945.

[@de.5066]

Your video quality has come a long way but man you are the gun Jesus of the Internet I wish I could meet you and shoot some guns as always have a good one Ian :)

[@foxy126pl6]

I keep getting this vid recomended, i supose i need to watch it

[@slaughterhound8793]

Interesting little .32.

[@MadSpectro7]

This pistol seems so advanced considering its date and country of manufacture

[@bumpercoach]

we need a comparison vid of the Jaeger to the Keltec p17

[@BigShaneGillis]

Looks like the father of Laugos Alien... probably heavily borrowed from this design

[@foughtwolf]

Looks like something that would have come out of a Polish garage. I like it.

[@NormanMatchem]

Wicked, looks pretty simple, but genius at the same time. The whole time looking at this video, I was thinking "The Russians would probably LOVE this pistol for its simplicity..." But I bet they'd find a way to make the front and back strap out of stamped metal, as well as make it not so dependent on screws somehow. Hey, in around the time that this pistol was manufactured, the Russians were pumping out the Federov Avtomat, which adheres to the qualities necessary to be considered an assault rifle. Can't say they don't know how to make amazing firearms :P

[@SAQQUSAWRU]

did you fix the trigger spring for him?

[@kjamison5951]

I guess that someone who knew this pistol intimately might be called a Jägermeister…

[@mrkeogh]

Fascinating little piece of history! Is it just me or is that trigger mechanism very like a Glock???

[@matthewkennedy7655]

Kinda like the Keltech 22 pistol

[@IncredibleMD]

This design is GENIUS if you're a german firearms manufacturer who has just been forbidden from making sporting arms. It's LUDICROUS if you're a german army officer looking for a pistol to carry around in the trenches.

[@JerryEricsson]

Years ago, when we got the internet; I used my initials for my user name. Being of Swedish Extraction, I have the names of my grandfather and father as middle names, and when put together with my first name, the come out to JAGE. For the username, I added an R so it is now JAGER. When seeing the name of that pistol it just rang in my mind as a MUST POSSESS item on my bucket list. I have yet to find one, but when I do, I will indeed buy it. Besides that Jager is a form of hunter in German, if my study of the language of my maternal grandfather is right and I was once an avid hunter of deer and related game animals in the Dakota's before an accident ended that part of my life (riding in the passenger seat of a pickup and poking my rifle barrel out the window to kill a deer sleeping in a shelter belt just isn't the same as walking the fields and shelter belts in search of the animals. Ah well enough of my woes, but I come back here regularly every six months or so to rewatch this video because I simply love this gun and the way it was built. If I still had my machine tools and the ability to use them it looks like something I could have thrown together in my old gunsmith shop.

[@timothyconley5871]

love ur show always interesting

[@varun009]

*German pistol *interesting manufacturing methods **steel stamping intensifies**

[@johnbonaros589]

Hi guys how about a review of the spanish Ruby

[@CCW1911]

Cool gun good video.

[@bullygram]

Grandpa of kel tek p17

[@fademusic1980]

Now that's what I call a disassembly

[@samrussell4065]

For some reason I get the impression that the designer of the Walther PP owned/used one of these. I wonder if there was a pistol that influenced the designer of this?

[@nippazhobbies]

I love your channel and I'm severely tempted to start up a Kickstarter to buy you some decent equipment, like a good camera, a macro lens, a tripod, a wireless lav and a shotgun mic with a windscreen. All the content in the world means jack and shit when your production values are awful.

[@jdizzy01]

looks like something you could fairly easily emulate with a CNC machine.

[@hectorvasquez9111]

***** not really with machine,you can use a 25 22 0 32 barrel if you got the magazine for this gun.and add the chamber just like this weapon.look closely at it.frame by frame.

[@Aikibiker1]

Cool, a proto-striker fired pistol like a Glock or M&P.

[@octopussmasher2694]

Lord othais made a fine video on this

[@chemistryofquestionablequa6252]

I see 3d printing in your future...

[@RedXlV]

Given that there's no single part that's the frame/receiver of this pistol, does that mean US law would consider it to no longer be a gun when it's disassembled? After all, the receiver is the part that's considered by law to be the actual gun. :P

[@alwaystinkering7710]

That method of building a gun would be ideal for someone building one in their home workshop with minimal machine tools. I'm just sayin'.

[@logotrikes]

Was thinking the same, dude. Wonder if any blueprints exist...?

[@MontChevalier]

Where does the bullet cartridge exit?

[@mayagrafix]

Great video. The camera work has room for improvement though. Thanks for sharing

[@DarkAvatar1313]

Rafael Cervera His more recent videos are in HD and filmed with better skill.

[@Eyrahndumgi]

I got the moves like Jager.

[@cookeddirt5310]

The Wilhelm family lives on