GMRS Manufacturers Lies

[@ralphebrandt]

I listened to this carefully because many of the GMRS ADs and videos are close to pure (as he uses in the video) BULLSHIT. I can probably find something he says I disagree with if I watch it 15 times and meter out every word. This is the absolute best video on the subject by at least an order of magnitude. One thing he did not talk about that most other videos do not mention are GMRS repeaters that are in many areas - I am both positive and negative on them. They increase range but where there are 25 ham repeaters in my area that I can reach with a hand held from my yard (not in the house or car with the attached antenna) that number falls to about 10 in the house and 3 in the car - and NONE of the ones in the house or car are on the 70cm band (430-450MHz. That is the amateur band that is closest to the GMRS band (462-467 MHz and will have the same propagation. These numbers increase if i use an inexpensive roof mounted mobile or outside base antenna. I routinely replace my Handheld antennas with one that is better but this increase is marginal, not massive. Second, relying on a repeater puts you depending on infrastructure, some repeaters are on backup power, some not. GMRS repeaters usually do not have the depth of tech background (all three in my area are tech backed by hams and are better than most) so if they go down, recovery is GENERALLY slower. GMRS is great for short range. The 2 meter band 144-148MHz is better, not a lot but better than the 70cm discussed previously. Murs may be a valid alternative power is limited to 2 watts but that may be better on 151 MHZ than 5 on 462 in some cases. Although i do not think the Baoreng is type rated for GMRS or MURS, unless you get a complaint by someone to the FCC and expose what you are using on the air, it is terribly unlikely you will hear from the FCC. I do not encourage this but you do what makes sense. One of the illegal items in the Baofeng is its ability to be programmed from the keypad and not limited to channels. If you do not stay in proper frequencies, you are far more likely to be hearing from Uncle Charlie. See snob list below. Channel Frequency Maximum authorized bandwidth Channel name 1 151.82 MHz 11.25 kHz MURS 1 2 151.88 MHz 11.25 kHz MURS 2 3 151.94 MHz 11.25 kHz MURS 3 4 154.57 MHz 20.00 kHz Blue Dot 5 154.60 MHz 20.00 kHz Green Dot Ralph Brandt K3HQI Extra Class Amateur ARRL EPA Affiliated Club Coordinator ARRL Official Instructor Former ARRL Amateur Auxiliary Observer EPA Dist 4 EC ARRL ARES Level 3 ARRL/W5YI VE Laurel VE Team Lead GMRS WRPG634 KAOR6315(old CB CALL) AFA3HQI (expired AF MARS)

[@K6UDA]

Thanks. Much more insightful than my video. The one point you and several others made was repeaters. Yes, they greatly extend the range of an HT (GMRS or Ham) but that isn't want the video was about. It was specifically railing on the manufacturers who put out deceptive advertising to sell radios to unsuspecting customers that have no clue about radio theory or practice. - de K6UDA

[@garycook5125]

He probably didn't talk about "repeaters", because that is not what his "GMRS Manufacturers Lies" video is about.

[@mikeav7083]

That's a key point "Repeaters" no doubt. Specially for us that are newbies.

[@ralphebrandt]

Notice i said he did not talk about repeaters. Look at my second and third sentences. I know some of the ads allude to them and say that increases the range. Since I have seen this channel has a lot of newbies I wanted to put out some information on that were it would be seen, not in any way bash the video. Anyone who thought I was missed those two sentences. I will repeat, the best video I have seen on this and by an order pf magntude at least.

[@davidrichter9164]

Found the unwanted know it all speech.

[@genebodenberger]

We are going to put a GMRS repeater up on a 70 foot tower (the antenna) that is at about 6600 feet in elevation. It should be able to link 3-4 towns together. Probably a distance of 20 miles in each direction.

[@garycook5125]

Install an automatic backup generator, or the repeater's completely useless when really needed.

[@jaspen8181]

A 2 watt radio is not likely to reach the repeater reliability

[@CatholicChickAZ]

That is awesome!! We connect to 5 small towns around us with one repeater. Lots of fun!!

[@ChrisDoutre]

@@jaspen8181 True, but fortunately, GMRS is not limited to 2 watts. Most "real" GMRS handheld radios are 4 or 5 watts and, with an external or upgraded antenna, can get reasonable range, especially to a large repeater antenna on a mountaintop. So the secret is to shop carefully and ignore the BS on the blister pack. Research the actual power specs of any radio you are looking at buying. Or look at product reviews and videos on the Internet. And, if you want to invest in a base station, the power limit is 50 watts. Again, with a high-gain external antenna, you can achieve excellent range with 50 watts.

[@dennisludwig5542]

@@jaspen8181 With a clear line os sight it will

[@patricklonski]

I'm going to have to disagree with you on the GMRS frequencies. My Bao Feng with a Nagoya 771 antennas reach a family members 8 miles away through my urban northeast Ohio home. UPDATE After writing my comment - I pulled out my 2 year old Baofeng BF-F8HP put on a Nagoya 771G antenna stepped into the back yard and did a radio check. A clear response from someone came in from a city 15 miles away. This is northeast Ohio so in my case you criticism is just wrong.

[@bobdillashaw4360]

Terrain and obstacles play a major role in how far you can talk, I can talk a good few miles where I am but I’m also in the desert where I have no obstacles, then there are repeaters that can help you talk 50+ miles.

[@WW5RM]

You disagree with him about the frequencies or the range? You must be going through a Repeater. A tall hill or mountain. What kind of terrain? Its no way in hell that will work here in East Texas! I'm lucky if I get 7 miles off my repeater with high gain ground plane, fed with LMR400 and it's on a 50 ft push up pole! And that's to my mobile that has a 35 inch high gain antenna! From handheld to handheld I'd be highly surprised if you reached beyond 1 mile!

[@patricklonski]

I disagree about the range should have been clearer. The repeater is 5 linear miles away the guy who responded was 15 miles away in another city. My city is a typical suburban city and not particularly hilly.

[@WW5RM]

@@patricklonski OK now that makes sense. But here is the thing. What he talked about in the video was Simplex, not using a Repeater. Handheld to Handheld. So you can't compare what he is talking about to the range going through a Repeater. Those GMRS radios in the video are not Repeater capable. But yet they claim they talk .....what was it? 35 miles? Some bogus distance that can only happen in outer space basically. Unrealistic conditions. So explain to me how that's possible without the help of a Repeater?

[@indridcold8433]

​@@WW5RMUsing a hand held, I achieved 8 miles with regularity. But, I love in a very flat region, if that makes a difference. If I do stop on top of a mountain, I achieved 11 miles. But, on top of a small mountain does not count. Anybody can get good range there.

[@ItsEverythingElse]

No mention of repeaters?

[@K6UDA]

Most people just discovering GMRS aren’t operating at that level yet. That’s another 10 minute video.

[@mrmichaeltscott]

​@K6UDA no is not. 30 seconds. And probably a good as the airplane. Plus can be set up on the move and by anyone. Even a small set up with two Ed fongs Gigantic. Is this a get a Ham commercial?

[@K6UDA]

@@mrmichaeltscott absolutely not. Most new radio users (GMRS) don’t have any clue about how radios really work, and in particular, don’t know anything about repeaters. Most when they first buy a pack of GMRS radios just think of them as walkie-talkies.

[@CanuckHam]

Ham radio isn't chanelized either, that gives you more options.

[@K6UDA]

@@CanuckHam It does have many advantages over GMRS but there are lots of like minded folks who aren’t ready to go for the ham ticket or have no interest.

[@TalmidAndy]

It is a true pleasure to hear a radio KZbinr actually call out the BS and fraud rather than repeating 'the best radio yet' in every new video. Kudos

[@K6UDA]

Thanks.

[@n1rbd]

The bigger fraud are the LTE HTs on FB that claim coast to coast coverage and are using the ATT outage as a selling point. These "radios" won't work without LTE!

[@philcrump9697]

My GMRS call sign is WRQT639. I 10:10 live in northeast Missouri. I have both a set of midland GXT1000G and a Uv5R. Last summer, I was traveling east through Illinois, and to my surprise, I heard the clear conversion of 3 Amazon employees 1 in Queens, 1 Manhattan, and the 3rd on a train on his way home from work. By the way, I was useing the midland on the scan mode. Also, on scan mode standing in my front yard I was hearing a clear conversion from 2 in Iowa. Granted, they could not hear me. Obviously, they were using repeaters not mentioned in this video. As a farmer, ex military, prepper, my rule of thumb is 1 is none, and 2 is one. I have a mobile CB in my truck, a mobile setup for my gmrs, 2 base CB units in my garage. A handheld gmrs i carry with me on the farm. And im studying for my ham license. I use my UV5R to scan and listen to Hams from all over Missouri.

[@jonscharbrough3438]

Speaking of misleading statements, he doesn't explain that "Privacy codes" don't prevent others from monitoring you, it only keeps YOU from hearing others.

[@lonewolf2364]

I bought a couple Midland GTX clamshells to see what was what and I have to say they are pretty good . I live in a heavily old growth wooded southern Oregon forest. The Bigfoot family lives a mile away. These radios reach anywhere in the 26 mile by 18 mile area. CB doesn’t reach a half mile without an elaborate antenna.

[@philip1091]

Gmrs security tones only cut down on the chatter but don't prevent eavesdropping by others

[@K6UDA]

💯%

[@TheRealRenn]

"Privacy" tones are only for the privacy of the people laughing and sneaking up behind you.

[@AdamosDad]

I reach a repeater 45 miles away in my pick-up, with a handheld and roof mount antenna, that repeater antenna is however, 200ft up a tower. Very good points on the lies they tell and the people that are deceived.

[@kd5you1]

I reached a VHF repeater in Abilene Texas from Houston this morning, thought that was probably tropospheric ducting. That was ~350 miles.

[@AdamosDad]

@@kd5you1 That exactly what it was. That's very un-usual, from base or mobile?

[@kd5you1]

@@AdamosDadI was sitting in my car at work and I saw the S meter showing a signal. Since I had tone squelch set for our local repeater I couldn't hear anything. I scrolled through the tones until I could hear their repeater, and then I was able to make the contact.

[@AdamosDad]

@@kd5you1 Very good from a mobile.

[@tdg911]

That's so funny when you think about it "naaahh I don't want to be on that list". But you pay your taxes, you use a credit card, you're on social media, they have your travel patterns because of filling up using credit cards, you have a cell phone lol. the list goes on and on. People are funny. Love the content thanks!

[@mediocreman2]

That information is less accessible and might even require a court order. But amateur license is accessible by anyone in the entire world and it's not a violation to access through any kind of unofficial investigation. People really overestimate the ability of the government, especially between individual organizations. But it doesn't really matter. People generally are much more vulnerable through social media and their Internet usage and cell phone than they are through ham radio or credit cards.

[@RobinMcCracken]

And they vote for a Billionaire who would take away their EBT card and call them "Lazy" in a Heartbeat

[@wheeler7973]

I got 90 miles on 2m once. But I had to hike a 9,800ft mountain to do it.

[@RKingis]

50 1:16 miles on a 14,000 ft mountain with a VHF 5watt.

[@MaryBrownForFreedom]

Listening to a 2 meter beacon 351 miles away right now... but I have 4 yagis, mast mounted preamp... 350 miles is easy on SSB with a big station, 100-125 miles with just 100 watts and a single 12 element yagi... a local 45 miles away didn't believe me so he started at 5 watts and switched in attenuation until he was at 5 milliwatts... I still had solid S1 copy. Depends on equipment and mode used...

[@raymondmartin6737]

I have spoken direct on 2 my from Mt Washington to a mobile near the coast almost 100 miles away, and to Mt. Washington from a mountain in the NY Adirondacks too. 😊

[@davidyummus6259]

I'm in very heavily wooded Central Pennsylvania & have a sub $30 Baofeng AR-5RM Radio (10watt & Clean). I was scanning one day when I heard an older guy on GMRS 17 talking to his Wife for a Radio/Antenna check so I chimed in & let him know that he was loud & very clear. We chatted well, Radio to Radio, his location was 6 miles away, he was at one end of the main Shopping/Dining/Business Highway in town (very slightly elevated) in a Mall Parking Lot & I was at the other end of the Highway at home just 1 mile from Walmart.

[@ocsrc]

Depending on the terrain, you can get 30 miles or less than 1 mile In the Northeast, it is awful for radio transmission In VT it is so bad But, the one I was down in the lowlands in South Carolina and in Georgia and Florida, I was dumbfounded at how far signals go The highest point in 100 miles was 25 ft above sea level With a 20-foot tower on the second floor I was able to cover most of the southeast It is insane how far signals will go when you have flat ground and you have an antenna that is above the top of the trees You just have an absolute clear signal In upstate New York we had very low power about half of what transmitters that were about 30 miles between the farthest one and the closest one and we couldn't hear any of them I drove up to the top of the mountain where we had one of the company transmitter sites From up there the signals sounded like a sledgehammer they were coming through pegging The meters all the way It just was dumbfounding because we couldn't get a signal when we were 100 ft away because of the terrain but once we got up to the highest point in the entire region we were able to pick up all of these tiny transmitters

[@denniscrowley8517]

Winooski river- rat, reading your post, living in Aransas Pass, Texas. I miss the hills.

[@HardcoreFourSix]

GMRS radios that are repeater capable are the way to go. I live north of Spokanistan, and I operate a GMRS repeater that is on a hilltop and it has about a 30 mile radius footprint. It has coverage in some places that cellular is not available. I am a ham, but it is much easier to get a family on the air using GMRS than amateur radio. I also like the interoperatbility between FRS and GMRS. For emcomms, I say "All of the above".

[@Commodium]

*Spokanistan* 🤣

[@CatholicChickAZ]

@@Commodium🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@CatholicChickAZ]

I’m in Arizona and went to visit family in Walla Walla; took my GMRS radio and nothing, found one repeater in Tri-Cities but not sure it was still in working order.

[@djburris1961]

I don't call the range claims lies, I call it misleading. Under the right conditions, they CAN reach those ranges. 70CM HAM is close to the frequencies of GMRS. The range for 70CM will be virtually the same as GMRS unless you use a repeater.

[@miket7184]

In my book, misleading is as bad a lying. In either case, you've forever lost my trust.

[@dougbotimer8005]

In general you are correct, but there is at least one exception. I’m getting over 90 miles with a $30 handheld GMRS from my back yard in SE Michigan. OK, not without a little magic, in the form of the Mi8 linked GMRS repeater network. Nearest repeater in the network is ~6 miles and high enough a handheld gets in to it with a clear signal. In fact, I get into the GMRS repeater with a stronger signal than I’ve been able to get with 2m and 70 cm handhelds in this area. Not giving up my HAM rigs by any stretch, just noting that for some of us, with families that aren’t HAMs, GMRS is becoming a viable alternative.

[@MaryBrownForFreedom]

2m SSB, 100 watts+ and a 20 foot long horizontally polarized beam = 100 miles any day of the week... friend was trying to stay in touch with her husband up at the lake cabin. He had takeoff over the lake so no obstructions. I talked her into getting licensed(he already was) and to put a cheap 2m SSB setup at each end. No cell service at the lake, no landline option... All summer long they would talk back and forth in the evening with stations from all over joining in... they had a 125 mile path, ran a 160 watt brick amplifier each end and some older $200 2m SSB radios(Icon IC-251A's, one of them my old radio when I upgraded). Both are no silent keys but we continued the nightly net for a long time after! Stations as far as 350 miles away would jump in when someone pointed their way. 350 miles is my most any day of the week range, takes bad weather to shut that down, and that is to a 100 watt 12 element beam station at the other end! I do the heavy lifting with four 12 element beams, mast mounted preamp, 1,000 watts... I drive the utility crew nuts making them chase down power line noise out to a mile!

[@BuckeyeHitters]

My GMRS radio hits a repeater 22 miles away. Soooo....line of sight is everything. But I agree with your argument. They're not good for very far unless you have direct line of sight. A buddy and I set up a repeater local to us and I can talk THROUGH THE REPEATER to others around 25 to 30 miles away.

[@survivalcomms]

If you thought CB was bad GMRS comes along and says "hold my beer"

[@kd5you1]

With GMRS you typically don't have band openings like in CB. When that happens during the daytime its like listening to the whole country at the same time.

[@javabeanz8549]

@@kd5you1Or the whole world... We have been hearing not just most of the USA, but also the UK, Australia, and several South American countries on the CB, here in Oregon. We get some conditions where GRMS goes further, we can hear repeaters that are close to 100 miles away, and some of our locals have been able to hit those repeaters, but not good enough to actually have a conversation.

[@K6UDA]

@@kd5you1 CB is using the 11 meter band. 10 meter ham is routinely used for world wide communications. GMRS is just above the 70cm ham band. Line of sight comms only.

[@garycook5125]

The GMRS isn't intended for long distance communications. It's primarily for use by family and friends who live in relatively close proximity.

[@javabeanz8549]

​@@K6UDAI know that they say "line of sight", but it's really near line of sight. I have talked to my brother in law, when he was on the other side of some hills that are about 1300 feet above our elevation, and 48 miles away. He was on a 50 watt mobile, and I was on a 50 watt base.

[@clydeosterhout1221]

There is a lot to unwrap here! Yes, the manufacturers lie about range. In an “end of the world” situation all radios are going to be useless. Screaming “I am here” over even a 2 mile radius seems like a very bad idea under such circumstances, so realistic scenarios are far more likely to be far more localized: blizzards, floods, forest fires, cell service outages, etc. In the case of a more localized disaster at least some regional repeaters will still likely be functional. Most in our area have battery back up. Even using a hand held HT with a rubber duck antenna I can reach three regional repeaters. One of the repeaters I can reach is on a tall tower on a fairly high ridge, and has a range of about 50 miles. Using those repeaters I can maintain contact with people 12 miles to the north, 30 miles to the west, 20 miles east, and 80 miles to the south. That’s a lot of coverage! My other family members are NOT willing to get their tech tickets, but are covered by my GMRS license. So in most likely scenarios my wife and I can maintain contact via GMRS radios most of the time. Having worked with communities on disaster planning in the past it is clear to me that having a good plan in place is FAR more important than the equipment being used. I have never understood this whole amateur/GMRS/CB radio “my toy is better than yours” thing. I use all three. Used together in a planned and organized manner the three major radio types are far more effective than any one of them are on their own. BTW, I am sure you already know this, but just in case others are not, the use of a GMRS radio from an airplane is disallowed by the FCC. Why? I haven’t got a clue!

[@Minnross1]

ah, I have a buddy that is over 12 miles away. That said I have line of site (no hills between us) and I can reach him just fine with a Wouxam 905G. Now I do live in a flat area of the US but with a repeater I can reach out pretty far. People need to be smart enough and do their research and know the limitations of their prep kit. Good video, thank you.

[@K6UDA]

You're kinda in a unicorn situation. I've got another video I did where I test different HT antennas on some fairly high end radios & mine petered out at about 3 miles.

[@Dan-bj1cz]

Hey so what would you recommend if the grid goes down.

[@K6UDA]

Budget friendly GMRS for family and neighborhood use, ham radio for city wide comms. Mobile Ham Radio for the car, HF for regional or wider comms and intel.

[@patriot9455]

If you do not have food, water, and weapons stockpiled, the radio will be the least of your worries.

[@StevenRAssmann-tb7ty]

What frequencies does the technician ham license use? What kind of range can be achieved using hand held radios?

[@K6UDA]

Technicians actually have quite a bit of frequencies for their use. They have the entire 2 m ham band, the 220 MHz band, the 440 MHz ham band, the 6 m, ham band, and a big portion of the 10 m ham band. They also have limited Use of 40 m in the CW portion. Several of the handheld radios are interchangeable between GM,RS and ham Radio, so you can expect similar results.

[@StevenRAssmann-tb7ty]

What about the 50watt gmrs radios, what kind of distance on them both with and without repeaters in the area

[@K6UDA]

That really depends on terrain, obstructions, location but you should be able to comfortably get 10-15 miles with a decent antenna.

[@K6UDA]

With a repeater you can get 50 miles.

[@SwordslingerCustomHolsters]

HAM has its place, and so does GMRS. I've talked with a Boafeng GM15 Pro with a Nagoya 711G antenna 7 miles with another handheld and antenna just like it. I've used the same handheld to hit a repeater 40+ miles away.

[@dangerpudge1922]

Well, I think there are some folks who don't really understand RF energy propagation. I have, in fact, hit another radio from inside my home at ~42 miles, simplex, with my Baofeng UV-4R. Yes, I am halfway up a valley wall (mountains on the other side), in CO (so low moisture atmosphere). You can also hit the ISS which is ~250 miles above the earth's surface and you can do so with a 5w radio which is probably only pushing about 3w. Of course environment is a factor, as is frequency. A higher frequency is more prone to being blocked by material objects and is less prone to widen as it propagates which means it has a very finite LOS as the earth curves away; this is why there are so many cell towers. Since GMRS is higher frequency than ham, you'll find that it is more prone to environmental interference. For some reason GMRS repeater systems aren't as prolific as ham, but they are out there; I'm putting together a 50w unit for our area which should cover pretty much my entire town (maybe up to 4 towns depending on where it winds up being located).

[@cucvfarmer]

Bob I have a GMRS Licence. I want to get a Ham Licence. What you covered in the video I knew before I bought a few Baofeng Gm-15 Pro GMRS Radios. I've been testing distance on them and the farthest I've gotten is 5 miles. I'm in the country. My parents live 1/4 south of me on a farm (dad doesn't farm but rents the ground out) and my brother lives across the road from them. I got the Radios incase of SHTF and we got to do security. I know the only way to talk over 15- 20 miles is by using Ham radio. If 2 people have a 50 watt GMRS Radios with good antenna and not many buildings you might get that far. I'm thinking about putting an antenna or repeater on top of a Harvestor silo that's about 80 feet tall or on top of an old TV tower next to my house and have a 50 watt radio to get more range. The manufacturer of hand held Radios should be alot more honest about the range of the radios talking simplex. I wish the rest of my family would want to get into Ham Radio. WRZI788.

[@multiverse-rc]

ham is useless unless its in a SHTF thing in that time no one will need a lic for anything!! stay simple and learn ... its my view the test is somewhat easy but the exam prosses is trash !!!! like taking a ASVAB for military service its uncalled for and if you do it remotely youll have to turn your house into a place with no windows facing forward at all times and kids and family cant be in the room with you itS STUPID.... HAM IS FOR GOVENMENT BOOTLICKERS THAT ARE HAS BEENS OR WANNA BE"S !!! DONT DO IT ITS A SCAM AND REMMEMBER THEY ARE RULES NOT LAWS!!

[@CzechSixTv]

If you have relatively flat terrain, a repeater with its antenna on top of that silo will cover a roughly 9-10 mile radius. There is also zero need for 50w out in the country. It won't increase your usable range compared to20-25w, only more height will do that. My repeater can be heard loud and clear for 20 miles on just 25w(the lowest it will go) and I can reach it from 18 miles away with a 4w Kenwood handheld if I'm standing outside.

[@Kirk1957]

Excellent info. I looked at GMRS and Ham handheld radio's, no repeaters in my area.. In the end I bought a President Randy handheld CB with a better antenna and a President George FCC for my truck.

[@RicArmstrong]

What area are you in? I live in western Pennsylvania and there's no repeaters either.

[@Kirk1957]

@@RicArmstrong Near Prattville AL.

[@ralphebrandt]

@@RicArmstrong Where in WPA?

[@RicArmstrong]

@@ralphebrandt Near Uniontown, you?

[@RicArmstrong]

@@ralphebrandt Near Uniontown, you?

[@stone1150]

You call the blister pack radios GMRS... That is not true. Those on the blister packs are Family Radios made for camping, keeping track of the kids at an amusement park, or just to use around the neighborhood. A true GMRS radio gets about 6 miles ht to ht in open condition. Maybe anout 3 miles in crowded conditions with trees and buildings. Been there done that. I use mine for family communication in case of emergency. Mom lives 15 miles away in a hole. I live on hilly and treed terrain. I hit repeaters 20, 35, and 45 miles away respectfully. So can my 85 year old mom. Yes, with a ht. And yes those tepeaters each have backup power for several days if needed. So jaybe clarify that some of those tadios were not GMRS and do not need a license? Not telling the entire story is a lie by omission. I'm sure it was just an oversight. God Bless.

[@jk-guy4226]

I don’t understand this video - you’re looking at FRS type radios with fixed antennas that also do gmrs. I’ve talked 80-90 miles on a $25 radio which completely exceeded my expectations (on repeater). I live in a heavily wooded area - would 2m transmit any better? Asking for a friend

[@K6UDA]

The video is specifically about what these manufacturers advertise as the range of their handheld radios, not assisted by a repeater.

[@58Alpha]

Lol. The repeater is a completely different story @jk-guy4226

[@jk-guy4226]

I guess - but your title is just as generalized as their statements. Not all are saying that - just these cheap bubble pack ones and people that are in to GMRS are not buying those radios. Anytime a company says “up to” you have to know its marketing BS

[@K6UDA]

@@jk-guy4226 $120 Motorola, midland and cobra sound fairly expensive expense to me. I’m no GMRS guru, as a matter of fact I just got a GMRS license two weeks ago. I’ve been heavily into ham radio for years.

[@RKingis]

Around 2000 the FCC allowed what they called Dual Service radios, which combined FRS & GMRS (Mist of these are now just FRS on all 22 channels). When they started selling these radios they grossly over advertised how far the radios would transmit in average uses. When FRS was created in 1996, it was advertised that you could do 2 miles, and GMRS up to about 4-5 miles.

[@dennisludwig5542]

I thought GRMRS callsigns started with a W. How did you get a K callsign as the guys responding

[@ChoralSea]

Yes you can Reach your family 8 to 15 Cars distance away on the freeway--in ideal conditions

[@utahradioman]

What are your thoughts on the BTECH V2 GMRS radio for long distances? Tnx! KB7TJM/WRBT717, Hurricane Utah 📡

[@philspiegel6224]

If the dodo hits the fan.....why would you be worried about a license?

[@K6UDA]

At that point you’re not.

[@CzechSixTv]

Because other than channelized VHF/UHF radios like MURS/GMRS(or CB at the top of the HF band) you need to be proficient with the radios and understand their capabilities. You need to understand how radios and radio waves actually work, rather than how TV and movies pretend they do, BEFORE there is trouble. 'Cousin Bobby' isn't simply pulling a radio out of the box, slapping in some batteries, and contacting you 30 miles away in an emergency.

[@TheRealRenn]

@@CzechSixTv one can learn and become proficient without having a permission slip from the FCCs.....but then again, saying this may upset the Sad Hamz.

[@CzechSixTv]

@@TheRealRenn For short range/local use there are plenty options without involving the FCC. When it comes to long range radio comms your only real choice is HF which has a steep learning curve. Hard to practice using HF bands without a license when the sad hams live to play radio police and report everything.

[@brianmcgauley2664]

I THINK I’m starting to understand. What had me confused is when I bought a Baovang UV 10R that our Corvette club uses for car-to-car rally communications on the road, and at car shows and the like. The club radio guy had mine programmed for “Simplex” use and when I looked closer into it, there were a number of channels that had the same frequency, but different “Tones”. I finally fou😅nd out that a “tone” is something we don’t hear, but the radios do, so that one conversation doesn’t interfere with someone else’s using the same frequency. Is my assumption here correct? FYI, I just paid my FCC GMRC license fee of $35 on line, and it was a nightmare navigating the FCC websites, even with the step-by-step guidance of some KZbin guys, so Im much appreciative of all the help. My next step is to try to re-program my 10R to some GMRC channels.

[@ano1962]

The list thing is hilarious, if you have a social security number your on a list, if have a drivers license your on a list, own a car your on a list

[@K6UDA]

Have you taken a dump in 2024? You’re on the list Focker.

[@ano1962]

@@K6UDA your on the list now

[@coziii.1829]

I have GMRS ONE in each car and a base station that is on a 70 foot tower soon to be a repeater But I can do about 40 miles at home base .

[@K6UDA]

Yep, GMRS can get comparable numbers as ham with the right equipment.

[@WolfQuantum]

I am both Ham and GMRS licensed. I still remember the, um, exhalations, from a guy when I explained about these bubble-pack radios and their "privacy channels." He had a pissed look on his face and growled, "Are you telling me my radios won't go the 50 miles they say!" I just said, "Sorry" and explained how maybe on a mountaintop across open space to another mountaintop under ideal conditions maybe, maybe not. He wasn't happy with that or the fact that what he thought was secure comms wasn't.

[@v0n1b0]

Well, if you're buying your radio at WalMart...

[@jimmyjohhn15]

This is what repeaters are for. Using my baofeng uv5r, i spoke to someone 14 miles away. That may not seem far, but it was 14 miles of dense city. Im also working on repeater linking, which is transmitting from one repeater to another. You're focused on the capabilities of the radio by itself, and not its full potential

[@AZREDFERN]

I wouldn’t say they’re lying, just being very vague. You can probably hit mile high mountain side to mile high mountain side from 35 miles away. I’ve definitely done it with a 771G at 40 miles. But I think they should all include the equation for measuring line of sight along with it. Knowledge is more powerful than any radio you’ll ever operate.

[@slcoareschannel1943]

Thank you so much for spreading the word. I give presentations all the time, and a couple on this very subject. GMRS is indeed an option as a Grid-Down radio where your cell phone won't work.... but you have to understand the technology behind ANY radio type (Ham, GMRS, FRS, MURS, etc.). The same marketing hype holds true to just about anything... from -40 degree boots (that work as advertised down to 20 degrees ABOVE ZERO) to these blasted FRS bubble-pack radios that also claim +30mile ranges. AAAAHHHHHH!!! Stop the madness already 😀

[@Subgunman]

What gets me is the fact they are pushing strictly GMRS radios which are junk. Since the mid 80’s I have sold an used regular commercial radios on GMRS. I BELIEVE all of these regulations have come into play after refarming the commercial spectrum to narrow band. One can still use commercial radios under the following conditions. 1. Radios are programmed for narrow band, 2. Power is regulated to five watts. As for the antenna, that does not worry me. Removable antennas are needed since these are the items most likely to fail. Why trash a good radio to the parts bin since the antenna sleeve is not available. Yes sleeve. The antenna is only a piece of coax with the shield cut back that has a sleeve attached to the housing where when they insert the chassis into the housing the coax section is fed up into the sleeve that looks like an antenna. Plain junk. As long as the customer does not have the programming cable and the software to program the radio there should be no issues. When you sell them the radio it should be in the purchase agreement that the radio has been set up to meet guidelines set forth by the FCC and that if the customer tampers with the radio in any way the seller is not liable for any fines incurred by any government agency for violating their regulations. One can purchase good used commercial radios for a fraction of the price of a new radio and they will receive a quality radio.

[@K6UDA]

I’d love to get my hands on a Motorola apx6000 series radio.

[@CzechSixTv]

All my GMRS radios, aside from a few RT76's I occasionally hand out to family, are dual type accepted(Part 90/Part 95A) Kenwoods. Receive capabilities and all around build quality blow 99% of current production GMRS radios out of the water. In my opinion, the only chinese made GMRS radios worth a damn are from Wouxun. They do have the advantage of easier programming, particularly changing tones for multiple repeaters, and extra functions like weather channel alerts if someone is looking for that. Since I only use my radios locally on my repeater, and have a dedicated NOAA weather alert radio, my Kenwoods do everything I need.

[@johnsavage8778]

I am in south east Idaho and would love to find someone who can help guide me as I learn more

[@johnsavage8778]

I also live in SE Idaho. Are there any groups or people like yourself that could help me learn more about the systems. I do have a GMRS and would like to get a Ham license. I am just having some understanding and setting myself up with the correct equipment. I have multiple radios and a portable repeater. Can you help in any way or recommend someone

[@K6UDA]

John, Have you hooked up with a club or group to help you get the feel for HAM vs GMRS? If not I'll give ya some help.

[@johnsavage8778]

@K6UDA No, I have not been able to yet. I have been dealing with some medical issues, and the appointments should slow down after the 1st. I would love some advice about the clubs. I used to know some of the Clark family but was gone a long time while in the military, and I don't know if they are still around, so I have not contacted them. Yes, any ideas would be appreciated. Thank you

[@deronthomas7904]

My BAOFENG UV-5RX gets 2 to 4 miles. I'm in Evergreen Park, IL. Witch is right next to Chicago.

[@deronthomas7904]

@trooperrogue9732 The radio is stock.

[@patriot9455]

For civilization down, you need to have already set up frequencies or in the case of CB, channels for dedicated uses. For group use, you may want check in times before "it happens" and keep in mind the simple fact that emergency communications will be local, or county wide in 99.9% of the cases. Having long distance capable bands will be a help, but how many people have a network of people that stretches reliably more than 20 miles. If you want a long distance comm system, that takes organization and teamwork. you can only build that when it is safe and quiet.

[@PittiesAndMore]

Stick to what you know...HAM radios. FRS (fixed antenna) and GMRS use the same channels they are two totally different radios. You can't compare Midland walkie-talkies (FRS - 2 watt) to Wouxun KG-935G Plus (GMRS - 5 watt) radio or a Wouxun KG-1000G (GMRS-50 watt). 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@K6UDA]

But I can read an ad.

[@K6UDA]

I actually did a real world test video of some fairly high end HTs and came up with some numbers that prove my point. Btw no one is comparing any HT to a 20 or 50 watt mobile. That’s like comparing a Jeep to an airplane.

[@javabeanz8549]

I have a set of those Midlands, and I can hit a base station about 6 miles away, if I go outside and stand in the back of my pickup. And I am in a rather flat area, with very little in the way of obstructions. I also have Baofeng and TIDRADIO walkies, and with a good antenna on them, they are a large improvement over the Midlands. Another point on the lies, I saw it in several of those ads, they talk about a HUGE number of channels because of the "privacy codes." They seem to leave out that the codes only prevent you from hearing others on the channel that don't use your codes. Anyone WITHOUT the codes, will hear ALL of your transmissions. Something else on the distance, if you have a GRMS radio that is repeater capable, you can get a lot more distance, as long as you have line of sight to the repeater you want to use. 73's from the Oregon Outback. ( PS, many years ago, I worked near Grass Valley, Wold Mountain area. )

[@mediocreman2]

Range claims have been that way for decades. Really unfortunate that there isn't a standardized test for range that has to be used in the specs and advertising.

[@flashbazbo3932]

No mention of the FCC regs that limit Tx power to five watts on (I believe) channels 8-14. Outside of that the Midland radios crank at 35 watts and the difference is noteworthy.

[@CzechSixTv]

GMRS is 5w on 1-7, 0.5w handhelds only on 8-14 and up to 50w on 15-22 or the repeater inputs.

[@dont4450]

You're absolutely right.

[@terrykeil6751]

I have a Retevis RT29 10w VHF radio. I put on a longer antenna, went out 2 miles through house's, trees and the signal was strong. I could have gone further no doubt. It all depends on the radio, antenna and power.

[@stevenharvey1375]

You're average repeater minus any terrian issues at 200ft does 30 to 40 mile radius with 50 watts. GMRS repeater is in the 460 MHz band and max watts is 50 on certain channels. So they do run into similar issues as the 70cm band in ham radio.

[@noexcuses6727]

Good info - I live in Savannah Georgia and there are NO GMRS repeaters in this area. The closest is many many miles up in Augusta or in the Atlanta area so, be careful. Understand what you have to work with in your area. I have multiple GMRS HT units but only for use in an evacuation situation during a hurricane or a power out time.

[@58Alpha]

I'm a private pilot and a HAM user...now I'm curious, which external antenna did you use on the plane? Did you suction cup it to the outside or something? I definitely want to try this 👍🏻

[@K6UDA]

Small 70cm mobile on the bottom.

[@EthosAtheos]

So, be honest your little hand held HAM radio isn't doing 10 miles either without a repeater or an airplane. GMRS works fine on repeaters, just as good as the HAM radio in the 400mhz / 70cm does. You want to HAM your way off the stratus sphere, your not using a sub 300$ hand held radio and antenna either. Your not even using a 50w radio in your car. Your using a huge base station pumping out all the watts and an antenna as long as a house. The good alternate to a cell phone is Meshtastic using txt messaging over encrypted and open chat channels.

[@MaryBrownForFreedom]

I run four 12 element 20 foot long 2 meter yagis, 1,000 watts, SSB... longest terrestrial contact 1350 miles! Off the moon I have worked around the world using CW/digital! My any day of the week no band enhancement range is 350 miles to a 100 watt single yagi station...

[@EthosAtheos]

@@MaryBrownForFreedom So you have ex-wife levels of money in your setup. Although I think its cool. It just isn't in range of most people.

[@kevinschaffer793]

I thought you can use repeater stations with GMRS radio’s?

[@K6UDA]

You can. But thanks a different video.

[@multiverse-rc]

I calculated and transmitted 13 miles to a repeater with a uv5r.. but blister packs maybe half way if your lucky.. the max range will be between 2-5 miles tested!!

[@rayr6421]

How about repeters.?

[@K6UDA]

Wasn’t about repeaters, it was about advertising.

[@bradgray9703]

Some are outright lies, but some are just a little misleading. GMRS like any other UHF radio are line of site radios. A five watt HT like a midland or Baofeng can get you up to15 0r twenty miles depending on the location of both radios. The ideal being across water, or high elevation radio to radio. (peak to peak). Antennas can make a huge difference. Some companies are offering up to 15 watt handheld GMRS radios instead of the common 5 watt version. And with a good 50 watt base station and a good ground plane or Yagi directional antenna, 50 miles is possible to a mobile or hand held radio. Everyone's milage will vary, depending on Location, Location, Location.

[@LilRedDog]

'Preppers' don't need a license: they are prepping for SHTF. #1 The FCC won't be around when SHTF. #2 Even if they were around you do not need a license in an emergency.

[@johnlynch7834]

Good video. I'm surprised you didn't mention some manufacturers claims of more tha 22 channels.Midland does it by setting up the channels with various ctcss tones.I noticed you were using ham call signs in the aircraft. THANKS

[@tlcgolden]

Get your Ham license folks you gonna need that 80 meters.

[@nigelgunn_W8IFF]

Although GMRS does allow repeaters, 50 watt radios and external home antennas.

[@thenelsonchronicles1035]

GMRS has repeaters.

[@CatholicChickAZ]

I love my GMRS radio (the only comms that work on our large property) I have contact with 5 different towns on the Green Peak repeater. Unfortunately our best friends live in Heber/Overgaard and nothing helps us reach there. That would be my only reason to get into ham radio and I know I could convince all of them to get a tech license.

[@johnsavage8778]

I attempted to join the channel. I don't know if it processed it or not. Hopefully, it did if not, please let me know

[@kd5you1]

What they mention on the packaging isn't really lies, but the most unlikely scenario. Its a shame that they would use that method just to sell GMRS/FRS radios. While some may transmit somewhat further or better yet, be able to receive weaker signals, none of them will have stellar performance. They're good for neighborhoods, car to car on a road trip, tower climbing with someone on the ground, etc.

[@WarehouseMilitaryOutlet]

Thanks for the video no one else wanted to make.

[@K6UDA]

It’s a dirty job, but someone has to do it.

[@thebackyardbushcrafters4417]

unless you hit repeaters.....we hit 250 miles away from our location with an HT

[@K6UDA]

Video or it didn’t happen.

[@thebackyardbushcrafters4417]

@@K6UDA lol we have a trick though….we hit a repeater 11 miles out and then it’s linked to a network of repeaters so someone out that far just has to hit the linked system and we all talk

[@bigchew3149]

I Agree So Much BS From Every mfg's now Days & I Am Glad Some One Will Stand Up and Say BS ! Thank You ! I Am a Licensed Ham & GMRS Operator an i am in the Appalachian Mountains of Eastern KY & Of Coarse I Have A Baofeng or 2..lol. among Others But Mine is a Supposedly 8w (Not on my meter) But a Buddy & me can Talk HT to HT/ Radio to radio at About 6-8 Miles (cant remember) But we Both was out side at night on the Stock Rubber duck antennas an i can talk to a family member about 5-6 miles away n the other direction So In my Very Rural Area its Pretty common to get 6-8 miles with the baofang''s I am at about 580ft above sea level at my qth !

[@JoeFramo-uw9fp]

That's right Bob are you getting 35 MI get them Bob get these manufacturers that are liars tell it like it is educate these people😢

[@ManuelPinner]

gmrs is exclusively mostly used for families, gmrs is not good for survival situation, the ranges are too short, ham radio is the best to have, and it's not hard to get a ham radio license, you can get a tech class and you can use 10 meters to voice side Band and you can use 6 meters and up all modes,

[@K6UDA]

Yet GMRS is far and away the most popular mode for preppers. The test may not be hard but many in the prepping community have no interest in radio, no aptitude for it, don't want to study, don't want to be "on the list" and don't want to learn how to program a radio. I've been talking about ham radio for years and specifically survival radio for six months now. We can talk about the advantages of ham over GMRS till the sky turns green. It just is what it is.

[@cmritchie04]

nobody ever talks about the 49 Mhz radios, there were nice for what we used them for "Band Camp" back in the mid 90's

[@fredc3543]

Yeah, the range claims are baloney. Still, the range is good for the campground or Fair events. Finding a "line of sight" spot for communications is sometimes necessary.

[@dankeifer]

Did he mention the magic of repeaters in this video?

[@K6UDA]

+@dankeifer but the video was about false advertising claims from the manufacturers, not how to get further distance using repeaters.

[@dankeifer]

Yes but they are very important part of amateur and GMRS communications. Definitely worth a mention.

[@rickbrodovsky9304]

Bro nice show lookin forward to seeing you...

[@K6UDA]

Can't wait!

[@wildweasel6898]

I agree with everything you said but on my mobile 25w radio and a big comet antenna I was actually able to get about 50 miles or maybe more on a repeater. The HT with a good antenna like signal stick would have probably gotten 4 miles or more in the flat valley. Just got to test these things. Never believe the company specs.

[@JoeFramo-uw9fp]

Hey Bob great video Bob thank you for sharing it😊

[@NickFrom1228]

I have to agree, range claims are misleading. The key thing is every situation will be different so peoples mileage will vary and usually on the less range side of things. Sure, I've been in the woods and talked with my ht to a repeater 38 miles away but they put repeaters on mountains for a reason. Another very misleading thing that to me is an outright lie is the "Privacy tones". CTCSS tones do not add privacy, they only allow a group to communicate without hearing others. But since people can just tune into anything without restriction there is no "privacy" whatsoever. I hate how radio vendors make it sound like other people can't hear you etc. That is deception at its best.

[@pamalacrabtree1727]

Excellent video.

[@K6UDA]

Thank you very much!

[@DA-jw6nm]

It is not a lie to state the range this way. Period. Even truth in advertising allows this. If a person chooses to ignore the ALL the words then they choose to be disappointed

[@K6UDA]

I would disagree. If I buy a product that I know almost nothing about based entirely on the product advertising and it doesn’t do THE THING it was advertised to do. Unless I go to some pretty extreme lengths then it’s a lie.

[@ericmoore86]

I get clear reports 53 miles on 10 watts through several buildings and some trees.. to the repeater then from there another 50+ miles.. if you have a repeater in the area you are golden for the range of the repeater.

[@TexasScout]

A comment on the range of these radios. I know it’s a selling tech however, if Motorola puts 35 on theirs and cobra puts realistic 3 miles on theirs who are people who don’t know any better Going to buy? So you have to put that range on there so the people that don’t know about your radio.

[@K6UDA]

Exactly.

[@Blues2cool]

I use GMRS all the time. A mile and a half is about it. They don't have the power to communicate long distance. Line of sight low power = short distance. Tall antenna and 50 watts = distance.

[@jrob8931]

I guess you have never heard of repeaters? GMRS Newbie here, getting 50 miles range Lima Charlie via repeaters with a few different models of Baofeng GMRS radios. WRQE391

[@K6UDA]

I’ve heard of GMRS repeaters but the video was about what the manufacturers are selling. They’re not selling a repeater they’re selling walkie talkies.

[@JeffSkymaster]

Repeaters require Power of some sort, no guarantees in SHTF scenario.Get your Ham license and beat all the odds. 73

[@NatesRandomVideo]

@@K6UDAtechnically a couple of them do have “repeater in a box” offerings - Midland and a couple of the Chinese makers have em. Having built a lot of ham and other GOOD repeaters, these little boxes are barely above junk quality … but they do have them. Awful filtering and good luck pressing them into 100% duty cycle. Heh. They don’t advertise them much nor describe what they are or what they’re used for. Also remember the “Motorola” that sells the GMRS stuff is another company that purchased the naming rights, not the commercial two-way division - even though I’m not really a fan of either. Good vid. Just adding some detail. You should take an all mode V/U up in the airplane and do SSB sometime. It’s a hoot. Wish video was more readily available back when I did it. A buddy had an STC for the FT-857D panel mounted and an HF random wire from top of tail to a post center wing then a 90 degree bend to the right wingtip. Worked great with a tuner on almost all bands. Cheers!

[@adambatchelder4121]

It's no different with Ham. I can talk 50 to 60 miles down into the valley one way and 2 miles over the hill the other way doesn't matter weather it's on my 2m or gmrs rig or on the same radio lol.

[@K6UDA]

The difference is the manufacturers don’t advertise unrealistic claims about the ham radios. The base customer is different. The base ham customer has at least a tiny bit of knowledge where the base GMRS customer may have no real knowledge about what an ht is capable of.

[@adambatchelder4121]

@K6UDA ok I see that idea now.

[@drgolfjim]

You hold up a radio, describe the distance capability, but you do not identify it. Why?

[@K6UDA]

Because it applies to all of them. From the cheapest $20 handheld to a $500 ham radio handheld. Point to point no terrain they are good for one to three miles at best.

[@robertodwyer2979]

I live in Toronto Ontario I have a 40ch hand held cb and a set of Motorola GMRS/FRS I'm lucky on cb to make contact 4 miles and with my Motorola GMRS/FRS about the same because I'm not 160 feet tall I'm not going to transmit 30 miles away. In January, 25,2017 a ice storm hit New Brunswick wiping out all cell phones service and hydro for 4 weeks all of a sudden GRMS/FRS & CB RADIO not even 911 emergency wasn't working (Breaker Breaker can I get a ride to the hospital!) Sometimes old school is the only way

[@jonathonschram3429]

I get those criticisms. Buuuut, I don't think you are really considering what gmrs is for, and how most of us are actually using it. For the record I have my ham liscense too, but I spend as much (or more) time on gmrs when I'm mobile. Alot of truckers and farmers are running gmrs (at least in Nebraska and Western Iowa). I can have a conversation nearly every day on my 45 minute commute with my 20watt mobile rig and proper antenna. I can regularly hit a repeater at 30+ miles heading into town. My kids and wife can run them at the lake. GMRS has literally everything (and more) that 70cm offers with no test (and practically no 'sad hams'). It's the perfect entryway into amateur radio for $35. I've gotten probably 5 or 6 of my buddies started in GMRS, and so far 3 of them are now technicians. The fact that it's limited (channels, etc) is actually a positive. The fact the rule na*is and complainers stay off is a positive. The only negative is that manufacturers sell 2w radios and advertise 50+ miles.

[@K6UDA]

+@jonathonschram3429 I just got a GMRS license a few weeks ago. Not very busy around here. I’ve got a 20 watt mobile in the Jeep and a few better HTs. I still maintain that HTs with stubby little antennas are only good for a few miles under normal conditions.

[@W5NWA]

How is 'a GMRS license list' different from a 'HAM radio license list' different from a 'deeded property list' wherein people are always talking about 'off grid' this, that or the other I wonder? Especially if it has utilities on the property. But I digress. Perhaps people get the GMRS to stay in touch with people, family & friends, etc. in their 'neighborhood' I don't know. No one I know does that but we live in rural America where the need is in the field, on the road or otherwise being mobile, etc. HAM radio has it's place of course but so do each of the others. Not unlike having actual land navigation skills verses a lazy mans handheld GPS.

[@TheRealLifeoutdoors]

Midland GXT 67 , breaks all the boundaries lol other than that I agree with your statements

[@butterbean4195]

i hear this all the time in the "prepper" world. they think there going to talk 10+ miles vhf i need to hold class`s here in Ga for these folks i guess

[@dannydivine7699]

I do wish you had mentioned the "Lie" about the term "privacy" tones, and how the WHOLE world can hear your transmissions, simply by have NO privacy tone in their radio, and the tones are more a "cut out the clutter" tones because they only limit what you hear, not who can hear you!!!

[@StevenOwen-qo3wn]

yep GMRS isnt for SHTF kinda stuff, its just for fun tbh. if there was a real emergency the airwaves would be so cluttered on the GMRS frequencies they would be unusable.

[@robinthurston3382]

Those 36 mile claims are true in line of sight conditions. Mountain top to Mountain top. We've tried it. Aeronautical mobile is the best. Uhf doesn't like obstruction.

[@lonewolf2364]

Other than emergency I don’t see the point of radio’s especially with mobile internet.

[@webmastercaribou7570]

Range is correct if you are up in a small plane or on top of Pikes Peak.

[@tsmerk]

What about putting up a wire dipole antenna for more range. Also, I wish you would have covered how to convert the privacy tones to cross tones that Baofeng uses. Thanks for the good ingo. Anyone who boards a plane to prove a point is worth a subscribe!

[@robertseaburg67]

I get 4.5 miles in the mountains and hills simplex on any given day..nothing after that but that's all we need as a family. Yes if you want to reach out and talk to other sweaty guys in tidy whiteys sitting in their "radio shacks" or want to make contact with a complete stranger 100's of miles away that you will never meet, or probably wouldn't want to then sure get your ham license and get a ham radio and chat away, if you just need " close comms" with family or for if shtf and cell towers and or internet goes down..then go with gmrs. And yes those claims in all the boxes claiming 15 miles,25 miles,35 miles ect,ect are complete bullshit. Buy the radio that fits YOUR needs. That is all, over and out