Gohan Beast vs Gogeta Blue - Who is Stronger?

[@yourkingreturns]

Going by classic anime rules, beast has more hair so he wins

[@TBROWN247]

😂😂😂

[@breakablehate2207]

Facts🤣

[@Cay9z]

So Edit: Raditz > Ssj3 Granolah > Ssj3 Goku > Beast Gohan

[@breakablehate2207]

@@Cay9z seems like it

[@joeysullivanTM]

So true! Facts 🤣

[@leviathan_is_me]

Another thing that bugs me...the characters could feel Goku going SS1 planets away...your telling me NO ONE on Beerus's planet could sense Beast Gohans awakening?

[@DimkaSulegnaa]

Much like the gap between Beerus and any other chaaracter in the series, the distance between earth and Beerus’ planet is ambiguous at best. So if they didn’t notice the events of Res F while there, they probably not notice anything outside something that would directly affect the planet itself. It would’ve been cool though if at least Whis acknowledged that he notice a spike in power from earth.

[@leviathan_is_me]

@@DimkaSulegnaa well, with the dimension shattered in Broly, and Gohan (arguably) far out powering that it would have been at least known I would think.

[@DimkaSulegnaa]

@@leviathan_is_me The weird thing about that is I don’t think any character noticed that detail as it was never referenced after it happened. At this point I’d just chalk it up to DB Super era writing being DB Super writing.

[@tinalebeau6438]

For real

[@carmelo6546]

Beerus's planet is the most isolated place in universe 7. Galaxies were disappearing and it never woke Beerus

[@theshermantanker7043]

The fusion is likely still way more powerful than Mystic v2, people often forget how absolutely massive the power multiplier from fusions are

[@sectorforall1760]

Its not mystic v2, we don't know the full potential of the new form.

[@DIRTTBALL]

Thought it was beast gohan?? It’s actually Mystic 2??? Cool as fuck either way

[@KolaTheBear]

​@@DIRTTBALLMystic isn't even the name of the first form.

[@DIRTTBALL]

@@KolaTheBear it was ultimate gohan right ? So many names lol

[@redtalon8947]

My reasoning for cell max’s whole weak point shenanigans was so Gohan could use the Makankosapo. It’s a more focused beam attack, and seeing as they wanted to use it as a finisher, there’d have to be something on Cell Max to strike that would kill him. Otherwise it’d be another example of a massive Kamehameha finisher to vaporize him, which many might see as overdone or a cop out.

[@thewalrus45]

Pretty much yeah I agree with this. Yeah Gohan could of done a big Kamehama and atomized Cell Max but we've seen that so many times now. So doing something different was warrented and good and they just made a story reason for why.

[@oman4229]

Plus he broke through cell max strongest blast too before hitting his "weak point".....

[@donavanboykin9489]

Agreed. It worked out too

[@fullsend4976]

I also think it was a callback to when Gohan would be drunk in his power and toy with his enemies. He ended it in one move unlike before 😤

[@xXCLAMPZXxx]

To say gohan beast is stronger than a god of destruction is beyond redundant

[@brandonsantos6088]

I love having Seth making appearances on this channel. It’s like a crossover I never knew I needed.

[@MalicetheOmega]

"good to have me" lol

[@Lord_teleportdinero]

Yo Danny hear me out I’m going to power scale this for you . The Gamma at max power is able to generate about the same power as a super Saiyan blue At the cost of his life we seen that Gamma powering up to Vegeta and Goku level with one attack was his strongest attack but killed him in the process the gammas have to sacrifice them selves in order To generate enough power as Goku and Vegeta. gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta‘s blue forms but he still weaker than blue evolution vegeta and kaioken Goku. Go Han wouldn’t be able to defeat god toppo from the tournament of power gohan is stronger than super saying blue but under blue Kaio ken times 20. Think of Gohan‘s new form as a Super Saiyan two multiplier on his ultimate form.

[@dug4095]

Papa Seth

[@sbreezy6462]

@@Lord_teleportdinero so your saying that his new form is a 100x multiplier on top of his ultimate form ? making him 100 times stronger than ssb goku?

[@wesleymelvin2347]

hey buddy can you make a crossover game between one piece pirate warriors and godzilla and fairy tail please please please please

[@shmeebs387]

I mean, technically there's no real reason to tell. Neither seemed to push themselves to their limit in their movies. When in doubt, I assume the fusion is probably stronger.

[@Just.SomeGuYontheweb]

This is a little bit stupid, Toriyama I believe said( and I know this is true), that Gohan beast is stronger than goku and vegeta blue, and if you count that the movie takes place after the granola space warrior saga then gogeta y base is a lot stronger than Gohan beast, same goes for super gogeta in DBS: broly

[@maxdrags3115]

@@Just.SomeGuYontheweb BULLCRAP! No he is not.

[@ethanharris482]

@@Just.SomeGuYontheweb You’d I realize when they fuse there power levels multiply themselves, he’s way stronger then vegeta and Goku in blue

[@mindless_mello]

Broly slams (except for Gogeta😤)

[@oyeahisbest123]

@@maxdrags3115 lol kind of bullcrap toriyama what he actually said was that gohan and piccolo were now on PAR with vegeta and goku blue. and that goku would still be technically stronger. You realized he twitted this shit people.

[@JakeTylenol]

I don’t know the answer but I do know this, whatever answer you come up with in your head Toriyama will probably says “yes” to it

[@TheChad900]

It’s Gogeta, idk what the confusion is or why this is even a debate. But the two strongest characters in series combined vs. One character that came out of the others nutsack who isn’t full blooded Saiyan btw too

[@MrJokerSenpai]

@@TheChad900 Isnt even a full blooded saiyan? Couldnt have made a worse argument because the series proves Half Saiyan > Full blooded.

[@yktvspoof]

@@MrJokerSenpai u are right about that one

[@Cay9z]

@@MrJokerSenpai Not really, Gohan is no different from Trunks and Goten, If they trained right now or had their potential unlocked theyd be just as strong as Ultimate Gohan

[@Garuwashii]

@@Cay9z That's completely untrue. Half-sayians have more potential yes, BUT Gohan has ALWAYS been the one with the most potential out of all the sayians, Vegeta even states this in Super when asking Goku about who to bring to the Destroyer Exbo.

[@brogetablue6975]

It’s hard scaling gogeta blue. He literally was too strong for broly to continually power up to in the amount of time that they fought, also theirs a reason why Goku and vegeta weren’t in the final fight of this movie from a writing standpoint.

[@Alejandra-cv7rj]

Gogeta blue hands down. Gohan is still a good many many years behind catching up to goku and vegita who are trained by a angel. Even this new transformation I don't see it being stronger than red super saiyans god. Yes even if their creator says he is stronger than goku now logically it's not possible if super actually make any sense. But anime logic will say it's stronger than goku lol.

[@adamkaiyt8241]

@@Alejandra-cv7rj They go with Gohan as that deep inner potential. He is a hybrid with more Saiyan genes. I can't digest Gohan reaching beyond UI. But he can be with par with Vegeta and Goku. If Villain was some angel being or corrupted God of destruction. If Gohan beat them. Then we could agree. In my mind Gohan is stronger omen and closer to MUI not stronger

[@Kobalt_Rax_the_one]

@@Alejandra-cv7rj Beast Gohan is definitely stronger then SSG red at the very least c'mon.

[@KineticSymphony]

@@adamkaiyt8241 But Gohan goes from Mystic high level pre-super Buu level, to MILLIONS of times stronger, instantly? That's... nah. Gohan has potential but not to that extent.

[@miirzii]

@@KineticSymphony Ultimate Gohan in super was already scaled weirdly. In the manga he solo’d Kefla, which was comparable to Blue. In the anime he could spar with Blue but got one tapped by SSBKK. He also was hanging with Dyspo who is comparable to Golden Frieza.

[@gensteps923]

People always forget that the supreme kai's are technically Gods, they are deities in their own right. So his power being unlocked by them technically is like him being trained by gods In a way.. like of course it's nothing like what Goku and Vegeta went through with Beerus and Whis, but still, we can say he technically had his power unlocked by a God

[@donavanboykin9489]

EXACTLY!!!!

[@odogg6899]

I always thought this, however would've been great if the writer had the wherewithal to realize that.

[@gensteps923]

@@odogg6899 yeah true. It would be great if they have scenes that show Gohan Training with Supreme Kai Shin and Elder Supreme Kai. The most we see is Gohan sitting down for the potential unleash ritual, but it would be cool if they actually showed scenes similar to Goku and Vegeta scenes with Beerus and Whis, like scenes where Gohan is exercising on Supreme Kai planet, doing millions of push ups, sit ups, running thousands of miles, and practicing meditation and Ki control. They could show all those things for Gohan while on the Supreme Kai planet next to Shin and Elder Kai. I mean these are the same beings life linked to the god of destruction, and they are supposed to also be deities of Creation, we never really see it but they supposedly have the power to create objects and even Life forms from thin air. They may not have battle power on the level of Beerus, but they are truly gods in their own right and definitely have a lot of stuff they can teach and powerful techniques they can pass to Gohan. It's like you said, we just need writers to realize all of this. Maybe in the Animes return they will do a better job showing this.

[@thatoneguy4452]

Before the movie came out, I thought it would make a lot of sense for Gohan to get God Ki, as that would increase his maximum potential and make his Ultimate form stronger. Training with the Supreme Kais would've been a great way to do this.

[@TheDarkMaster312]

Gohan took part in the saiyan ritual, every saiyan there was given the potential to unlock God Ki. Gohan got a MASSIVE power boost when he re-unlocked his Ultimate form pre-TOP, so it's more than likely the god ki from the ritual awakened when he regained that form, boosting his base powers from Buu level to SSB level (he did fight SSB Goku, who needed to use KKx20 to put Gohan down).

[@Diemondbakk]

I think the biggest point everyone misses about dragon ball is when the characters make statements it has a realistic maybe maybe not feel to it. For example the grand priest wasn't sure if Goku was UI or not. Whis constantly gets shocked and that's why the gods are so fascinated with Goku and friends. So piccolo saying the gammas are as strong as who ever is really an opinion of piccolo than a cannon fact if that makes sense

[@ninjawaver]

I see wym but at the same time the writers put those lines in there for a reason. They aren't always going to specify which forms either. In BoG, when Vegeta surpassed Goku after Bulma got hit, Roshi is the one that said he got stronger than Goku. We know it's a valid statement bc he clearly did damage to Beerus that Goku himself couldn't do. Also he didn't specify SSJ3 Goku but we obviously know thats the form he's talking about. So it's like ANY character can say it. The point is the line was put in there.

[@beethovenstrance5042]

@@ninjawaver I agree. The thing about dragonball also is that those statements are meant to be heavily implied because we don't see characters actually destroying solar systems and other things. but we know they can because of piccolo blowing up the moon with ease and cell many years later said he can destroy a solar system. Frieza destroyed namek and cell was way ahead of him before he died.

[@Kagiso22]

Unfortunately, dragonball is often written in such a way that it is hard to tell if what you’re saying was the intent because we have also often known characters to comment on certain scenarios and power ups as a form of exposition to us the readers or viewers. Any confusion on what is piccolo’s own head cannon or assumptions versus what is supposed to be taken by us as story cannon is solely the fault of the writers.

[@donavanboykin9489]

@@ninjawaver Big facts

[@twontwon1827]

I disagree in a ways .. piccolo has been able to see mui against jiren yea they cant sense god ki but they can feel the sure pressure of god ki .. also piccolo was able to sense the whole fight goku ,vegeta and broly had .. broly doesnt have god ki .. so he definitely felt that pressure/power perfectly …also was able to use telepathy to talk to goku about this .. so piccolo not denying gohan statements says alot!

[@AbsolutCrono]

Hmmm. Think about this - Gohan did the same thing in the rest of DBZ too. He's almost twice as strong as Goku and Piccolo vs Raditz, gets stronger than Vegeta's Zenkai on Namek (though he got potential unlocked). Gohan's anger has always been key to his strength, don't piss him off lol.

[@Excalis3344]

i think he actually was 3 times stronger than goku and piccolo in the raditz fight

[@errorcode1815]

True.. but the multiplicative power of fusion between Goku and Vegeta would mean Gohan would not just need a x2, x3 or a x10 to surpass their strength, but an exponential increase to surpass or rival Gogeta, in the biggest power level jump outside of a wish. Seems too much of a gap to close

[@coreymichael1880]

@@errorcode1815 are we forgetting Gohan got one shot KO’d by base Freiza like two movies ago. What has he really done since the Buu saga? He was barely memorable in the ToP. The story of the new movie is so lazy and corny.

[@errorcode1815]

@@coreymichael1880 not sure if you are even responding to my comment as we seem to be making the same point.. completely agree though

[@jb-dn5fy]

@@errorcode1815 I agree. A movie just isn't enough to make me believe this was possible. Hopefully future arcs will give more explanation. I also truly hope Goten and Trunks don't end up the "silly saiyans" who are only relevant through fusion..

[@Meetwad]

Lmao RIP Seth. Keep it pushing Geekdom.

[@kelvin5629]

I will say Gohan is like an endless well that has doors blocking gohan from accessing his power. When we trains, he is leaning to open up deeper level of these doors. Goku and Vegeta continously dig their well to access the same level of power. I just have a feeling if Goku and Gohan ever fused, they will be unstoppable. Goku's training and focus would know how to utilized the very deep well Gohan is sitting on. It will make sense to have Gohan have this power but is not a true Sayian to every fully have control on this power. Rage is Gohans only natural way to accesses some of it. Gohan has to go primal, like Broly, to obtain his power but he can't stay in that state long because he is peaceful in nature.

[@sunshinekid7799]

That’s a load of crap. Gohan hit his peak when he got his full potential unleashed and accessed Ultimate form. Beast form is a crappy asspull way for Toriyama to put him back on top. He could e done a much better way than this. It’s hard to like Gohan at all when he’s written so bad

[@APRBaller]

@@sunshinekid7799 His involvement in the series and where his power level stands among the elites is constantly put in such an awkward place. Kelvin isn’t exactly wrong about Gohan’s power being like “an endless well”, however. It’s been referenced as such multiple times in various types of Dragon Ball media, and various characters have constantly noted Gohan’s potential. Like you said, the major problem is the writing. Such a huge emphasis on Gohan’s “limitless potential” only for him to not have really done anything of significance since Z (with the exception of this movie, of course). Even when they try to rectify the issue, it kind of feels like an asspull when we literally know nothing about his Beast form. And because of the nature of his character, honestly who knows how long it’ll be before we figure anything else out about that form…

[@skylaquinn219]

@@APRBaller ya'll seem to be forgetting that these movies are now canon, which mean it will show in the manga/anime, and then it will be explain. Not all anime explain why a character transform into a form when they first show it, some of it will explain it later in the series. Hell they didn't explain why Goku first turn into Super saiyan, however we figure out that he was pissed off, and later on they explain it and we was right, so give them time, pretty sure they will explain.

[@stfu5013]

@@APRBaller Gohan did eliminate kefla in the TOP manga tho.. DBS is full of asspulls lets be honest BE that vegeta got in the top to match kk×20 goku Rage trunks Ssb😂 Golden freeza and now black freeza The thing is that DB doesn't care abt scaling like we do They care abt putting out content and promoting that product Remember when god goku was stated to be 70% of beerus Or when Jiren was supposedly stronger then the gods of destruction? Or goku believing broly could beat beerus None of that aged well Being mad at them putting gohan back in a top spot is dumb considering he has been neglected horribly since z He was the second most important character back in Z He had his own arcs in growth etc Piccolo up until the cell games was very important at a certain point he was the strongest fighter in the series talking on and overpowering 17 I think it's great that Piccolo and gohan got some growth Sure they could have done the zenkias better with a more creative arc But looking at the bigger picture it's a positive for DBS

[@APRBaller]

@@stfu5013 oh yea bro, asspulls galore. It’s part of the fun of watching db nowadays, trying to make sense of all the nonsense 😂

[@imjustadog1897]

I’d say Beast Gohan is way ahead of legendary super saiyan Broly, but he’s not half of what current Gogeta Blue is. If Beast Gohan can get incredibly stronger like Broly can, maybe he’s got a good shot. Then again if push comes to shove, ssbe, UE, UI, are in Gogeta’s pocket.

[@LeThickBooty]

Hakai , Instant Transmission , Kaioken , etc. I don’t see Gohan EVER beating Gogeta

[@RockDaSandman]

You drunk if you think Gohan can defeat Broly, no offense

[@LeThickBooty]

@@RockDaSandman they already said he’s stronger than Broly during the promotions

[@GinDaroCa]

I think that Gogeta has is own form when it comes to it. Remember that Gotenks can transform into super saiyan 3 because his body can handle it. I mean it’s two bodies in one ! Gogeta’s body gotta be indestructible because of the experienced bodies of Goku and Vegeta. Beast Gohan might compete with Gogeta Ssb , but not with Gogeta himself. Tbh I don’t think that we will ever see full power Gogeta or Vegetto. Their fusion itself cannot handle that power! But glad they made gohan and picollo relevant again. Sucks that new earth enemies can match God power that makes the whole super saiyan god transformation not necessary. Should have left the GOD out.

[@jmkos86]

Gohan was written originally to be a main protagonist of DBZ. Since child he’s very unstable with his power outbursts fluctuating in and out depending on his emotions. Toriyama said Gohan is stronger than Broly. But it was also mentioned that Beast Gohan is as strong (if not a bit more but not completely outclassing) SSBlue. With that in mind, if Cell Max is as strong (if not a bit stronger but not enough to outclass) the LSSJ Broly from the movie, and we see the difference of how Beast Gohan handled Cell max and how SSBlue Gogeta handled Broly, it’s safe to say Gogeta is miles ahead of Beast Gohan. But at the end of the day, you know who the strongest is? Plot Armor. This is ALL speculation. Even in the daizenshu or by “power levels”, characters will always be written to ultimately serve a purpose. And in the grand scheme of things, characters like Gogeta and Vegeto are characters that appear only when REALLY serious threats appear. Piccolo with a power up from a wish out of shenron and Gohan achieving (again) a form out of his raw emotion are not the same when comparing everything Goku and Vegeta have gone through together. So I’d say ANY of their fusions would topple any of the other characters.

[@ssjgodzilla8330]

Banger ass videos long time no see MJ and you got the king power scaler Seth. Such a sick trio

[@larzooma]

Nice to finally see someone state the obvious. They know where this falls in the timeline and until something is said to the contrary, it's up to the writers and everyone involved in the manga and anima to craft the story so Orange Piccolo and Beast Gohan fall where Toriyama is placing them in his statements. If he says Piccolo is on par with Goku and Vegeta now, then it's up them to show Piccolo in his Orange form competing with whatever form they land on by the time the story reaches the SH timeline. Same with Beast Gohan either being at or above them. Just because they wrote it in the past doesn't change how Toriyama and others are qualifying these characters now knowing where this movie falls and what exists now for Goku/Vegeta/etc.

[@odogg6899]

👏

[@ttv_spokzyt493]

Nothing but fax

[@santoniojones280]

I don't think Gohan is stronger than Gogeta Blue. I do however believe that Gogeta blue would be a good test to actually scale his power and new found abilities I'm this form. Gogeta is a fusion which multiplies power. I don't believe he's stronger than Gogeta blue but will be able to grow from battling him.

[@MoBallin]

Actually this is True Gogeta would be sadly the only Opponent that could make Gohan Grow (Well he could still refine his Base and martial arts but still)

[@jonathanjimenez55]

@@MoBallin ah you forgot broly

[@Aleksi723]

Black frieza claps them all

[@MoBallin]

@@Aleksi723 Actually no the only person that could go toe to toe with Black frieza is Gohan lmao

[@MoBallin]

@@jonathanjimenez55 Its been stated by Toriyama even Goku and Vegeta couldnt beat Cell max plus its been stated that Gohan is the strongest and Individual fighter and Toriyama is pushing this Narrative really hard also if Pan is 6 years old here its been about 4 years ever since TOP meaning this timeline is way ahead Granolah arc and if hes ths strongest individual fighter in that time stated by Toriyama Broly gets clapped plus cell max is already Broly levels with the amount of Feats hes done he quite literally made a Ki ball as big as a Continent even Broly couldnt do that

[@devonvelazquez7882]

The look piccolo gave to gamma 2 after transforming was something else

[@grandoblivion5268]

Before I watch this video, I will say personally, I don’t think Gohan Beast is anywhere as powerful as Gogeta Blue is, but escalating power levels and whatnot will put him in the same room. They already said Cell Max at his Full Power and mind would be someone “not even Broly would beat”, so there’s that piece of information.

[@priestesslucy]

Yeah, I could genuinely see Beast Gohan forcing Broly Movie Gogeta Blue to go all out (unlike Broly lol)

[@grandoblivion5268]

@@priestesslucy you think so? I don’t think he would. Gogeta just seems so stupidly overpowered, that nothing short of a serious Gohan Beast would have a hard time. The problem is, they make the fusions so ridiculously powerful in fights and performance (Remember: Vegito didn’t even need Super Saiyan to beat Buuhan, the strongest Majin by a wide margin, or Vegito Blue making a laughing stock out of Zamasu, Gogeta Blue), and then make the next character(s) so ridiculous it’s like wow. You could be right though.

[@priestesslucy]

@@grandoblivion5268 Give Gogeta True UI and yeah, Beast Gohan loses easy as pie But Blue? Nope. He's got a chance, probably an advantage but he's still going to have to work for it

[@csciabar]

Gogeta was ready to murder broly and then take frieza out if he had to. Broly was at a disadvantage. The only reason he would win is if the fusion runs out.

[@Zeno1781]

@@csciabar no he wanted to knock him out but seeing how it didn’t work out, he went for the kill

[@jaylevi8602]

The amount of bs that movie had is crazy. How tf did Gohan get that strong and achieved that bs power up 😂. He did say he trained without anyone knowing but that’s just the biggest bs ever because training by himsef ain’t fucking getting you instantly to ui level 🤦‍♂️

[@Geekdom101]

absolutely did!

[@sbreezy6462]

He's been training since the revival of Frieza arc so saying he didn't train is a lie and speaking of frieza he trained for four months and went from weaker than ss trunks from the cell saga to slightly stronger than ssb goku

[@nickroscher3968]

How did Broly got above two SS Blue in less than an hour then? Lmao This is just classic DBS

[@cajeb5396]

@@nickroscher3968 yeah these fanboys loving Broly but crying saying no way Gohan got strong just exposed the hypocrisy lmao

[@nuclearwaste2062]

Thats just dragonball super logic at this point. Even frieza trained for mere months to reach ssj blue level. Which is the level of the gods .

[@IndigoUchiha26]

Another awesome video 🔥🔥🔥🔥

[@ssj2tarble]

Gohan has had his power unlocked by two different types of Kami's (Guru and Elder kai). Not to mention his epic rage boost to go along with Vegeta saying Gohan has the most potential out of all of them and I'm not surprised at his potential strength.

[@Bingo_the_Pug]

But then here comes Broly, who has the most potentially potential out of all potential outcomes

[@Lord_teleportdinero]

Yo Danny hear me out I’m going to power scale this for you . The Gamma at max power is able to generate about the same power as a super Saiyan blue At the cost of his life we seen that Gamma powering up to Vegeta and Goku level with one attack was his strongest attack but killed him in the process the gammas have to sacrifice them selves in order To generate enough power as Goku and Vegeta. gohan is stronger than Goku and Vegeta‘s blue forms but he still weaker than blue evolution vegeta and kaioken Goku. Go Han wouldn’t be able to defeat god toppo from the tournament of power gohan is stronger than super saying blue but under blue Kaio ken times 20. Think of Gohan‘s new form as a Super Saiyan two multiplier on his ultimate form.

[@gamingfreak2049]

@@Lord_teleportdinero you’ve explained his form into pretty simple terms to understand. As well as being logical too. Gohans multiplier would need to be as great if not better than gogeta’s ,but since the writers like to bullshit and ass pull we won’t really know for sure.

[@chewezx1767]

@@Bingo_the_Pug Gohan essentially just did what Broly accomplished in his movie on steroids. They both grew stronger then Goku within a single movie. And honestly Gohan now has the better feats now.

[@Lord_teleportdinero]

@@gamingfreak2049 yea i dont think gohan is beating blue evolution vegeta hes stronger then goku and vegeta in blue i think piccolo refers to goku and vegeta blue forms. i think beast gohan still isnt stronger then goku and vegeta so its silly to compare him to gogeta But if they were to use his new form in the anime or Dragon Ball heroes it be easier to know how strong he actually is

[@thundercat123studios]

I think it's hilarious how Geekdom and Seth were contradicting what they both said. Seth stated in order to kind scale it, you have to include the manga because it too is canon (like the word or not). So even if Superhero was written before the Moro and Granolah arcs, they'd still be part of the super timeline all the way up to Superhero. Ok so with that mindset, it seemed everyone agreed with that point until Geekdom said "Well we aren't counting Moro and Granolah, just the movies." Like what?

[@mathewgreen197]

The only true canon that can be proved is that Goten, Trunks and Pan are older during super heroes than they are during the Granolah arc

[@thundercat123studios]

@@mathewgreen197 I know. I just found it funny how they were going back and forth on their ideas of how to follow it.

[@kmiester3787]

Geekdom also only uses the word canon when it fits his narative. He has fallen off. A lot of his reviews are contradictory. He used to be one of my fav youtubers but not really anymore. Seems like he never knows what he is talking about when he brings guests on the channel.

[@kmiester3787]

@@thundercat123studios geekdom also said a few videos ago that Toriyama teased Beast Gohan in Super anime when Gohan told Goku he was aiming for a form no one has, but then in the same sentence he will say Toriyama never watches the anime. Like what?

[@kawakiuzumaki5934]

@@kmiester3787 He does infact only uses the word canon when it fits his own narrative 😂

[@bguest23]

This was an excellent selection for an All-Star cast. Marvel multiverse typa team. Could not have been put together any better. Great video bro, there’s not another group that could’ve handled this better.

[@d4r4m53]

imo, the Gammas “rivaling” Goku and Vegeta shouldn’t be taken as “they have the same power as Goku and Vegeta”. The same thing has been said for these: -Goku in SSJ God/Blue “rivaling” the Gods of Destruction, even though we know he would get stomped by Beerus for example -Kefla “rivaling” Universe 7’s Spirit Bomb in the anime, even though she was getting hurt by an exhausted SSJ Blue Kaioken Goku -Ultimate Gohan “rivaling” SSJ Blue Goku, even though Gohan was leagues below Toppo, who had trouble fighting SSJ Blue Goku and SSJ Blue Vegeta individually This last example is important too, because it helps us gauge Gohan and Piccolo’s power in the movie Ultimate Gohan

[@kulo4912]

Lol just confirmed that the new manga chapter will be a prequel to super hero so gohan is the strongest

[@rustyrattle5776]

@@kulo4912 how does that confirm Gohan is the strongest, what

[@kulo4912]

@@rustyrattle5776 all of super hero takes place after granolah so the statements of gohans battle being the strongest in history and being the strongest warrior would mean he’s stronger than tui and ultra ego

[@rustyrattle5776]

@@kulo4912 they said this movie is more like a sequel to broly, so it’s probably not taking into account everything that has happened in the manga. also each time something new pops up in db, the promo material hypes it as being the strongest craziest thing ever. but Toriyama implied in an interview Broly is still the strongest and can beat the max cell that we saw in the movie

[@kulo4912]

@@rustyrattle5776 the new manga arc is said to be a prequel to super hero and toriyama only said Broly would be stronger than an uncompleted cell max and also called gohan the strongest

[@rustyrattle5776]

11:00 12:31 17:10 these should tell you this shouldn’t even be a question. This video’s logic is wacky as hell

[@Phoenix_KDE]

One thing to remember is that this movie was made and in production before the DBS Broly movie dropped which means it was before the Moro and Granolah arcs came into play so we can't compare Goku and Vegeta at that point to the movie because those events haven't happened yet at the time of the movie

[@TheWoomyster]

Im not even convinced Gohan is stronger than Goku or Vegeta individually let alone fused Edit: to clarify, I don’t have a problem with Gohan being stronger, I have a problem with them just making him stronger without him earning it.

[@bobkys7916]

Gohan was way stronger than goku and vegets in the cell arc. It's not impossible for him to do it again. Especially since the movie is a reference to the cell fight.

[@Geekdom101]

i totally understand that bro lmao

[@mando7323]

Lmao facts it’d be straight BS if he was 😂

[@TheWoomyster]

@@bobkys7916 true, but Gohan was actually training consistently during the Cell arc. He hasn’t been training very frequently while Goku and Vegeta both are. I love Gohan, but in my opinion, it feels like an ass pull.

[@yonyalexander3833]

@@mando7323 it’s more bs that a 50 year old virgin managed to match GOGETA BLUE even if he never trained for shit

[@samuelhicks1268]

I like gohan being relevant and i hope it pushes goku to train in a different way to get stronger since he's sees there's always levels to achieve but man i wish we get a good solo Vegeta arc Please!!! Goku, trunks, gohan all got solo arcs but Vegeta hasnt has been the biggest crime of dragonball!!!

[@ballsoversack2736]

The “glad to have me” never gets old

[@JDMEXforme]

The scaling is all over the place. And Gohan not training multiple times then gets this ultimate form? Thats sloppy writing. Goku and Vegeta are literally training with an angel. Also Gohan is half human and half Saiyan. So by nature he has to have a limit. And Broly even though an extremely powerful Saiyan cannot just reach god level without that training. And just take shots from Gogeta SSJG Blue. The writers need to sit down at a table and discuss to themselves the mess they have created lol.

[@Blaze-te4uq]

I honestly can’t wait to hear more about Gohans new form just curious about his ability’s tbh I whis was there to witness

[@donavanboykin9489]

Me too

[@devaughnfranklin6683]

The classic Kick to the stomach was astonishing 🔥🔥

[@sow_scout4989]

I'm the opposite and kinda like how Gohan becomes stronger than the others without training as much. Because this then shows just how much more potential Gohan can unlock if one day he eventually focuses on training. This bit of information can add potential story content for the future. To add to this, this also makes me excited with the direction DB is going in terms of character growth. In the past, it was about reaching a certain limit that anyone can reach for the Saiyans, such as attaining Super Saiyan and Super Saiyan 2 for example. This time around, the level they attain is based on their character and who trains them. Goku reaches another level of UI based on his training and trainer, the same with Vegeta. And the same can be said here with Gohan and Piccolo, and to me, this just makes it more exciting.

[@B3N_J1]

I think it's the complete opposite. DBS is kind of taking away thr value of hardwork that characters such as Goku and Vegeta put in. For e.g Goku and Vegeta spent years training to achieve their power and went through countless threats but, Piccolo catches up via a wish, same with Granola and Gas. Gohan trainings for a tiny bit and then is suddenly stronger than them. Broly suddenly just grows to their strength in 1 fight. Frieza trained for 3 months and then meditated and caught up and now in the manga *insert spoiler* is making it even worse. The whole narrative of Dragon ball, where characters have their limits, but force through them is valueless, if all they need to do is train for a bit or just ask Shenron.

[@johnman8398]

​@@B3N_J1 DBS isn't taking away hard work at least not any more than Z did. If anything goku and vegeta themselves take away from the value of hardwork due to their forms and how quickly they grow in power. Goku learnt the kamehameha just by looking at it when it took master roshi 50 years of training, does that take away from hard work? Goku lost to vegeta in their first fight just cause he was born with a higher power level. Piccolo getting power from a wish doesn't take away from hardwork as its a one time thing for him. As for Granola and Gas they had to sacrifice their lifespan in order to achieve that power which balances it out. Frieza training if anything adds to the value of hardwork as someone as prideful as him decided to put effort for the first time in his life for golden. As for now in the manga it adds to it even more as he trained for much longer and beat gas someone who used wishing to get stronger showing the value of hard work. DBS isn't doing anything worse in terms of showcasing the value of hard work than Z, I'm sorry you can't ignore Dr Gero building planet busting androids and then suddenly say its a super only thing.

[@B3N_J1]

@@johnman8398 Fair enough, I agree with that. I guess I just chose DBS because of the scale of power in which characters are jumping. E.g from being ssjb level pre T.O.P to Stronger than Mui is a massive jump, but I guess that's just a part of DB as a whole. Nice paragraph writing skills btw (actually being genuine just so ya know)

[@badluckbarlos]

i like gohan but why not have trunks or goten get crazy strong ? i mean they’re basically the same thing as gohan

[@SEliteGuitarist99]

@@B3N_J1 Well Vegeta has said before that Gohan being a half breed is what makes him powerful. That was stated years and years ago. His human spectrum of emotion is much wider than a pure Saiyan's, and since they gain a lot of power from those emotions, Gohan can experience much calmer inner peace and much deeper rage than Goku or Vegeta, because their Saiyan biology for the most part keeps them focused. Gohan will always be able to be stronger than any pure blooded Saiyan because of that. Piccolo becoming on par with Goku over a wish is 100% bullshit tho.

[@MurkN]

The only way Gohan Beast would be on par with Gogeta Blue is if he fused with Orange Piccolo

[@ultimamage3]

Tf would that make? Creamsicle Piccohan? 😂

[@AkagiRedSun]

Movie left me thinking Goku and Vegeta are in different stratosphere compares to Gohan and Piccolo. Piccolo is now up to Majin buu level and Gohan is now SSG or SSG Blue level terms of strength. You could see Gamma had trouble dealing with Ultimate Gohan which he was weaker compare to Buu Saga and I don’t think power boost would send Gohan into Ultra Instinct nor Royal Blue level.

[@Nick12568]

Probably the most sensible comment anywhere in regards to Gohan. How people put Gohan on the same pedestal as Goku and Vegeta especially fused is beyond me. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@bananaballs3205]

I’m pretty sure piccolo comparing gammas was either from their base form or their blue form, not only that, but this movie happened months - 1 year after the top which probably means that ult gohan currently is stronger than the blues power wise at the least.

[@kleber_felinto]

@@bananaballs3205 The movie isn't months - 1 year after TOP, it's 2 years after, pan has 3 years in that movie. The moro arc end is just 4 months after TOP, this due majin buu only waking up on namek to fight moro and mr satan said buu would only wake up 2 months after starting sleep in the TOP, then, after buu fights moro, moro made his wish, ran away from namek and gave the z warriors more 2 months to train for the final battle on earth, where he gets defeated by mui giant avatar goku, so the moro arc end is just 4 months after TOP events (2 of buu sleeping + 2 of z warriors training).

[@kleber_felinto]

@@bananaballs3205 Besides, 4 months is also the age of Bulla in the moro arc end, cuz she was born at the same time buu started sleeping (during TOP, 4 months before moro ending), and since Pan is just 1 year older than Bulla, she would be 1 year and some months at the end of moro arc, totally different from the 3 years she has in DBS: SH, meaning DBS: SH is far ahead in time from TOP arc, DBS: broly and moro arc, there's even argument to take place after granolah arc, cuz granolah is stated on the manga to happen just months after the moro end, not even a year passed between moro end and granolah, meaning Pan during granolah would be at least 1 year + some months or at most 2 years + some months.

[@mattcoorey2580]

@@Nick12568 most sensible?! lol gohan was blue level during the TOP

[@bjoza195]

Adding to the vague topic discourse... In the Broly movie, Gogeta says..."our powers have not only merged, they have been significantly magnified". Does that mean 10 times? 20 times? 100 times? We really don't know the ceiling to Gogeta's power potential and seeing how Gogeta Blue barely broke a sweat defeating Broly (yeah he made him work a little but it was Gogeta going through the motions and ended up defeating Broly convincingly). I'd say Gogeta Blue is stronger but it's arguable I suppose because Gohan Beast is also not really tested in his Cell Max battle.

[@MannyloAnimeSquad]

it is annoying giving androids a random power boost but my logic behind it is they are increasing their power on the melicular level so atomic fusion bla bla now they are as strong as Beerus characters...

[@jsol_03]

You also have to take into consideration, gohan beat cel max even though he hasn’t trained since the tournament of power and had gone soft leading up to this transformation. Yes he might’ve awaken the fighters instinct during the fight but that doesn’t magically instill years of training that Goku and Vegeta have gone through. If we assume he started training like he said he would after the fight, what can Gogeta do to Gohan? Even if it goes down to a straight up hand to hand fight like he had with Broly

[@jonathanjimenez55]

Ui goku would beat gohan sooooo gogeta at this point would be overkill if he turns into a ultra gogeta

[@jsol_03]

@@jonathanjimenez55 don’t tell me tell the content creator that’s saying the exact opposite

[@jonathanjimenez55]

@TheBoltMaster umm where did he say that? Cuz so far he hasn't said anything that's just what fans keep saying

[@Destruxionz]

@@jonathanjimenez55 actually he did say that 😂 ppl aren’t making it up he confirmed gohan is the strongest of the 3 saiyans and also has the potential to be stronger than everyone

[@thievesofd]

Gohan also has some glaring weaknesses that he’s shown previously regarding experience. Originally he toyed around with Cell and it cost him, then for ToP he also showed a bit of lack of restraint and kept running himself into a corner, whether it was still over exerting and leaving himself open OR using too much restraint to the point where he didn’t finish an opponent when he had the chance. Goku and Vegeta show this separately but when fused they are much better at actually judging their opponent compared to themselves. The basis of Gohan letting his battle rage take over for his Beast “mode” means he’s more likely to overextend whereas Gogeta will try to gauge his opponent first then toy with them once he’s found the weak point, but only once they confirmed their superiority would they make a final strike. Gohan might just get impatient with being toyed with and flat out killed them. (Saying this as in 2 completely masked people who would respond to an opponent like any other instead of inferring their relationships and prior knowledge of each others capabilities to leave a bit of equal fielding, otherwise Gohan would have his entire fighting style already figured out by Gogeta due to the coupling of both Goku and Vegeta’s experience with Gohan.)

[@shmeebs387]

Even without the whole Cell Max weak spot thing, I think Gohan Beast would have handled him no problem. Gamma 2 took Cell Max's arm. It was a crazy full power sacrifice attack, but it's clear that Gohan is stronger than Piccolo who stomped the Gammas. Gohan took a full power punch from Cell Max easier than Perfect Cell did when he gave Vegeta a free kick or when Vegeta gave 2nd form Cell a free punch. That's the power difference here. Honestly, I think the weak spot thing was just a way to let other characters contribute to the fight like Gotenks cracking his shell and Piccolo grappling him.

[@basimali619]

Look at the scene where gohan tanks the punch. Cell max’s punch didn’t even go through his AURA. HUGE power difference.

[@comet30265]

There is no debate here on Gogeta, goku and vegeta have been training and never stopped training. If you guys think that by one power up in this movie gohan catches up to a Fusion of a goku mastered ultra instinct and vegeta full power SS Blue your crazy. I don’t care how more potential gohan has if you don’t trained on a daily or train on a regular schedule you aren’t touching goku or vegeta let alone a Fusion of both these powerful powerful warriors, man kick rocks.

[@ajemison3]

It's crazy listening to this conversation after finishing Granolah arc and seeing Black Frieza.

[@1SoljaAnt4]

This shouldn’t even be a question. Gogeta all the way.

[@coreymichael1880]

Exactly. What a stupid debate

[@tsshuanglongdermitzakis2256]

To even think that it's not gogeta is blasphemy

[@kmiester3787]

Exactly, anyone who thinks its Gohan is clearly a mouth breather. I cant believe even Geekdom thinks Gohan would win lol.

[@kawakiuzumaki5934]

Not really when there’s promo material saying the Gohan vs Cell Max is the strongest decisive battle in history.

[@kinginblack2845]

None of you guys even got a clue on what powerscaling is lol, y'all are probably the same type of dudes who'd go as far as to say dbs ssj cabba loses to dbz vegito 😂😂

[@officerof50ahyash-yaahla92]

This is a good breakdown. Someone did an arc after the super hero movie where vegita trains with gohan to bring out his beast mode when they returned from lord beerus planet. I appreciate vegita and his growth being on earth compared from when he first coming to earth. If cell max was complete the movie would've been different then the movie would've had the gods and goku vegita and broly going to earth then they've would've been way bigger than what it was

[@savage_Sloth90]

The idea of orange piccolo no diffing gas made my day. Banger of a video from you guys

[@brianjackson3031]

How is this even a debate, Gogeta blue. If Gohan has surpassed Gogeta Blue then that’s beyond unrealistic, even in the realm of Dragonball.

[@justsomeshinigamiwithanapp5955]

Why would that be unrealistic when they're comparing gohan after timeskip to gogeta from way back before even moro? Considering the amount of zenkai goku and Vegeta have received since then and gohan would scale above that.

[@brianjackson3031]

@@justsomeshinigamiwithanapp5955 because he’s done 0 training with any respected trainer. I don’t see how he could catch Gogeta Blue from the Broly movie after the TOP. Gohan was fodder in the TOP. Both goku and vegeta unlocked new forms during the tournament. So they were already stronger than Gohan prior to the tournament then they increased the gap. Then you add in fusion, how is this a debate? Gohan shouldn’t have even caught Goku and Vegeta individually with ONE new form, let alone a fused version of them, WITH SSJ Blue.

[@justsomeshinigamiwithanapp5955]

@@brianjackson3031 gohan did 0 training and he was born stronger than any entity in the entirety of og db, its not farfetched, its how the scaling here works. If you watch the vid, seth makes it very clear how this is very logical

[@justsomeshinigamiwithanapp5955]

@@brianjackson3031 why should gohan have not caught up with the new form? He surpassed everyone at a point in the cell saga with one new form, in the buu saga with just the ultimate form, this is dragon ball, this is the gimmick, this is power cliffing

[@brianjackson3031]

@@justsomeshinigamiwithanapp5955 he didn’t catch everyone with one new form in the cell saga, it was two. He gained SSJ and SSJ2 during training in the hyperbolic time chamber. I think the writers interchange Gohan and Broly. Gohan never had Broly level potential but that’s how they make it seem. Broly surpassing Goku and Vegeta DURING their fight wasn’t surprising because that’s how he’s written. Gohan isn’t on that level. He needs training.

[@songoku9348]

If Goku and Vegeta were to fuse into Gogeta in *Super Hero* he’d be stronger. If it’s the literal Broly Gogeta, maybe Gohan Beast would match him.

[@ArnezDavid]

Honestly I still think Broly movie gogeta would clap Gohan beast

[@loganrhill]

The fact this is even a question blows my mind

[@matthewolson2386]

You hit it right on the head. Before Moro and Granolah, Gohan Beast would beat Gogeta Blue, after that probably not. I do think one on one with True UI or UE, Gohan Beast is a bit stronger, those would be the face offs I'd like to see. Cant wait for another T.O.P.

[@odogg6899]

gohan slaps true ui and ue but loses to post granolah gogeta blue for sure.

[@austoosodrippy1864]

They said cell max in his perfected form would be stronger than broly which still lost to gogeta blue and gohan beat cell max 2nd form so I don’t see the logic in that

[@Key_low_TV]

I'm surprised it's even a topic And the Gohan beast I felt like it was supposed to be nostalgic for the older fans because it like when Gohan turned ss2 against cell but this time they didn't let cell reach his perfect form would be nice if they made a alternate ending on cell reaching his perfect form.

[@rbrown4220]

Yea basically it's even started that the form for gohan was the original super saiyan design thats why he has red eyes and cells 2nd for was his favorite there was no 3rd form for cell until it was added late and they decided to use it so yea he basically made this movie for his original vision and for gohan/older fans

[@mistersirthegoodsir]

My goats! Love when you guys collab

[@Sols698]

I have hope that one day true power scaling will return in DB

[@awaisahmed9418]

I wana see a fusion of beast Gohan and Full power Brolly. That power would be insane

[@Uchidaful]

you mean Goku and Broly

[@latinalover26]

@@Uchidaful gohan and broly

[@azeimfriday7841]

Brohan

[@yonyalexander3833]

They both have the most potential too it would be sick

[@awaisahmed9418]

@@Uchidaful no Gohan and Brolly.

[@bluuangel004]

We have to remember that near the end, I forgot who told this but Cell Max was weakened by Gamma 2 and that attack happened before Gohan transformed. With regards to Gohan, the way I see it is that Gohan is potentially stronger than Goku and Vegeta. He was planned to be the main character after Goku but the idea was scrapped and he was nerfed and put on the sidelines with the excuse of being a scholar and not training anymore. He is kinda like Freiza wherein if he trains and becomes serious, he could be a powerhouse. Hence, Golden and now Black Freiza. With regards to Gogeta and other fusion forms such as Vegito and Gotenks, it is a multiplier, not just additive, so that tells a lot and scales as the base becomes stronger. With regards to the present, I think MUI still tops this, along with Gogeta Blue (and Vegito Blue). Not sure about the new forms though such as UE Vegeta and TUI Goku, they're probably on the same level.

[@blackfrieza1912]

So basically fusion vs unrealistic bs power ups that for some reason makes your hair bigger than regular lol 😂

[@MalicetheOmega]

Are we really acting like any of these hair transformations are realistic? Look at SSJ3. Hair gets mad long lol

[@willdavids1]

Facts this entire discussion is a joke

[@blackfrieza1912]

@@MalicetheOmega. I mean unrealistic powerups not the hair

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

@@blackfrieza1912 How is it unrealistic when Gohan as a toddler surpassed Goku who trained his whole life just by throwing a tantrum? It's realistic when it comes to DB and Gohan if it wasn't a problem for you then it shouldn't be one now especially after the movie confirmed Gohan trained

[@RamielEdits]

@@blackfrieza1912 honestly, the most unrealistic thing of this entire movie is how quickly gohan obtained final gohan. If piccolo made gohan go into the time chamber it would have been better but it feels so unfair that goku and vegeta have been training for YEARS and gohan gets a form that surpasses all of them by studying bugs and seeing piccolo get hurt.

[@Alex-xp8kt]

Gogeta using blue will drain the time he has while fused. Gohan on the other hand, doesn’t seem to have any drawbacks with his form. Overall, I think Gogeta has more of an advantage since his Power Level is more higher.

[@Jason5818UI]

Gogeta realizing he doesn't have time to waste so he's gonna get the job done quickly with time to spare

[@Iron_potato40k]

Gogeta can stomp him before he needs to defuse though

[@Mirlean]

But it didnt drain his time rewatch the movie

[@Lunatic89097]

@@Mirlean The plot called for Gogeta to not be defused.

[@SpartanSouls256]

@@Mirlean from how we see it yeah, but in the dragon ball world that fight was probably way under 30 minutes.

[@anthonypastore8378]

Damn mj and Seth! Sick!

[@KnightBX]

Idk if the gammas can represent full power Goku and Vegeta. There is no way Gohan could even keep up with ultra instinct. The gammas don't have the properties of ultra instinct and ultra ego, so they are by standard weaker than them. Even if Gohan beast could be physically stronger than Goku and Vegeta, the properties of those forms really changes the game. Ultra ego would eventually get stronger, and ultra instinct is just super fast.

[@probablykevin22]

I honestly find it kind of stupid that androids even have the ability to compete with god level beings. They got away with ssj level but come on.

[@Nikketmzee]

You’re right if we’re going by logic, but going by super’s logic, ultra instinct can be overpowered if you’re strong enough. Which was idiotic, but the writing has been shit since super started so nothing is new.

[@SolidSnake240]

@@probablykevin22 At least with Cell it made sense since he had different fighters dna but yea the other androids I didn't understand how or why they were so powerful.

[@KnightBX]

@@probablykevin22 same. There's no way mere mortals could even imitate the strengths of the gods. The only thing they can do is just make Androids physically super strong. The gods strength isn't even supposed to be comprehended by mortals. But I suppose computers and machines aren't mortals.

[@sbreezy6462]

Ultra ego vegeta has shown that, if you're stony enough you can bypass his "damage absorption" but simply knocking him out. Both granolah and gas did it

[@Skankhunt-hl9zj]

If we’re being honest we know the next transformation introduced is always “the strongest character in the verse” It’s all for momentary hype and the fans always fall for it.

[@thebenancesmodesart]

Once Super retconned SSG Goku being 70% of Beerus' power (in the movie) and went beyond the god form it lost me. The fights are just some punches and kicks with a few named attacks that are literally the same thing just different color or shape until someone pulls out a new form. Z wasn't that different at some points but the scale has gone overboard and it's become to bloated with forms. And just to add, people like Broly who spent 40+ years on a rock eating bugs while Goku and Vegeta spent that time battling countless threats, learning different techniques and amassing martial arts skill, but Broly still shows up and trumps that easily. It's stupid.

[@nameless_flash]

@@thebenancesmodesart how can any mortal without god ki become stronger than a mortal with god ki, that will never make sense. like jiren having UI looking energy yet having no god ki

[@thebenancesmodesart]

@@nameless_flash I wish i knew man.

[@trvrboggs]

Love that outro beat bro!!! 🔥🔊🔥

[@willchalloner6643]

The hard part about this question is that there’s no cross over Except piccolo (who makes no comments) there’s no crossover from the battle vs Broly and the Superhero fights The only things we have are “A completed Cell max beats Broly” “Goku and Vegeta may not have been able to defeat Cell Max”

[@breakablehate2207]

They probably was referring to that massive blast he created, how will Goku and Vegeta destroy that massive blast?

[@ElGoat7]

@@breakablehate2207 That's just reaching.

[@breakablehate2207]

@@ElGoat7 Hm

[@AllMight6]

@@breakablehate2207 vegeta had ultra ego (destroyer ki) and goku has used Hakai

[@breakablehate2207]

@@AllMight6 there's no ue ans mui in the movie, only blue evolved and blue kkx20

[@rick_rivas20]

I think gohan reclaimed the title strongest non fused zfighter in this film imo

[@wavyassassin8017]

Nope , it’s definitely frieza …and he def can’t beat beerus

[@rick_rivas20]

@@wavyassassin8017 frieza not a z fighter

[@SpideyOnPSN]

Being inconsistent is good marketing and is what the creators have been doing. It sparks discussion in the form of debates and small talks alike. If they were to have more canonical evidence of power levels and the timelines, conversations about Dragon Ball would not last long. It is because of this vagueness that people can have these never-ending discussions -and that, ladies and gentlemen, is good marketing. Continue talking about Dragon Ball, but do not expect to come to a conclusion that the entire community will agree upon.

[@CaliJose209]

Bruh one thing is giving us bits and pieces of info of the different forms and all that. Another Is them blatantly telling us and showing us things and then changing it up. There's nothing smart about that. They probably do it to stir up debates and keep everything interesting but it's not fun for us to argue with eachother over things that should be obvious from what we are told.

[@VickNumber7]

Gogeta wins on Technique alone. No way Gohan out fighting a fusion of his dad and Vegeta. Not to mention God Ki Techniques, potential Kaioken

[@thehighestorder2868]

Techniques don't matter if you're power is that much lower

[@Summorial2]

but they are talking about gogeta from the broly movie not gogeta post granolah.

[@DarkZ0l]

@@Summorial2 Literally makes no difference

[@CertainlyCynical]

@@DarkZ0l exactly, broly movie gogeta SLAAAMS gohan.

[@Summorial2]

@@DarkZ0l do you guys not understand it's db look at goku after the goku black arc he was stated to be 4 times stronger than fused zamasu who was keeping up with vegito so it's only a natural power jump at this point.

[@Ramonnnn]

I liked the idea of the gamma's representing goku and vegeta. It makes me think cell max could mirror broly. So with that said the movie could imply gohan has become stronger and showed more potential compared to broly, goku and vegeta back in that movie. At the same time that also still means we dont know if gohan became stronger than gogeta blue

[@ViceAdmiralRaiden]

Honestly, they missed out on a big one with this movie. When cell max turned so huge, an beat up piccolo, why not make Gohan go golden great ape. Make ssj4 Gohan canon and let him be the only one having the transformation. Think about the fight, golden oozaro Gohan going tow to tow with cell, Gohan losing control and almost beating cell into submission. And then piccolo gets up again, talking sense into Gohan as his beloved mentor and father figure, helping Gohan gain his conciseness back. Then for a moment, they fight 2 on 1 in a battle of the giants. Then Gohan realises he can't beat him that way, and concentrates, moving a bit away from the battle. Sort of like a short meditation. In his inner thoughts, he is face to face with his great ape form, they stare each other in the eyes, they share a moment together, maybe even talk, and come to terms with each other. ( Could also represent his human form accepting his Saiyan half, and combining their strength to make Gohan even stronger) then we cut to the outside where piccolo tries to stop cell max when all of a sudden a bright yellow light lights up the whole place. As the light settles, we can see the ape slowly forming a human body again. And when the light disappears, there he stands. Super Saiyan 4 Gohan. In THAT form, he just manhandles cell line a baby. Throws him around, beats him up. But as they realise, it is still not enough, Piccolo holds him, while Gohan does piccolo's attack (basically like in the movie). THAT I would believe to be a form as strong as ssj blue or almost on par with Vegeta andt Goku.

[@hawkegarret7678]

Hard to say considering we haven’t seen them actually put In effort against an enemy in the forms yet to give a good answer they would either have to face an new enemy or fight each other

[@SolidSnake240]

Obviously Gogeta. I don't even know why this is a conversation.

[@Pepsolman]

Since Gohan Beast is a current character, then you need to match it with the current version of Gogeta Blue. The current version of Gogeta Blue theoretically has the current ability to use UI and UE. What would UI and UE do fused? That’s the question.

[@ZekeTrailblazer]

Actually, we have this answer from the Buu saga. The reason Vegito didn't go super saiyan 3 was due to only Goku knowing how. Same would apply to gogeta. If UI and UE isn't something they could both use, then the fusion can't do it.

[@Pepsolman]

@@ZekeTrailblazer Has Vegeta ever done a kamehameha? Vegito did.

[@ZekeTrailblazer]

@@Pepsolman That is a ki technique, and not a transformation requiring certain criteria to reach. It wouldn't be unbelievable to assume Vegeta learned it during Goku being offworld training his Super Saiyan form either.

[@sevynthkiza7701]

@@ZekeTrailblazer neither is a form...they are both techniques so theoretically gogeta can do them both but can't combine them as they are opposites in execution

[@ZekeTrailblazer]

@@sevynthkiza7701 Forms are specific though. They have to be attained, whereas techniques can be learned. Given everything we have seen from fusions so far, I feel like this is the case, but of course anything can change if new evidence arises later in the series.

[@NiftyTheCrusader]

Gohan Beast is for sure stronger than Gogeta Blue, much stronger actually. Orange Piccolo was stated by Akira Toriyama in a guide book that he was on par with Goku's full power (whether it be MUI or TUI it doesn't matter), which later on, Orange Piccolo got demolished by Cell Max. You can't deny it if the creator himself states that info. Gohan Beast took a straight hit right to stomach and it didn't even phase through his aura, yeah his AURA took to the hit, meaning the gap in power between Gohan and Cell Max was absolutely gigantic, it was massive. After that, Gohan completely blitzed and one shot Cell Max like it was nothing later on. After that, Akira Tori states that Gohan beast was by far the strongest thing we have ever seen in Dragon Ball's history, this taking place after the manga means that yes, even Black Frieza is getting railed by this Beast Gohan whether you what to believe it or not. On top of all this, Akira even went as far as to say that Gohan was the strongest character in Dragon Ball due to his potential, which kind of makes sense. Ever since he was 5 years old, he was boxing with a 2nd form Frieza who has a power level over 1,000,000. Later on, at *11 years old* he surpassed Goku by going SSJ2 and destroyed Perfect Cell, AS AN 11 YEAR OLD. It's pretty clear to me who's stronger.

[@DOAKE4N]

And 17 years old gohan was stronger than ssj3 and closet to ssjg without even trying too much Gohan beast stronger than fusion

[@mando7323]

Braindead logic 😂

[@brookboi_6992]

I could see gohan being stronger than gogeta from the broly movie but not a hypothetical current gogeta. Btw I seen the twitter fiasco yesterday. Keep your head up man don't listen to the idiots. Keep grinding man💯

[@GuyVick]

Agreed

[@BeastXIS]

"Current Gogeta" is not a thing. So it does not matter

[@brookboi_6992]

@@BeastXIS hypothetically. Duh

[@BeastXIS]

@@brookboi_6992 Hypothetically is not canon. Stick to canon official versions my friend

[@brookboi_6992]

@@BeastXIS the cannon is fucked I'd rather just make a logical deduction. Thanks for the suggestion tho.

[@YodaSmokes]

If this really is comparable, it’s Probably worse than frieza catching up and surpassing blue in 4 months. I love Gohan, but his potential alone isn’t enough for me to accept how strong he potentially is. His power jump in the tournament of power (undetermined) was likely higher than it needs to be. Overall, they just need to take time to build him back up. At best, he should be somewhere between Blue in the Resurrection Arc and blue at the end of the futur trunks arc. Including all his training in super and his new power up.

[@newhybrid101]

Its nowhere near as bad as Friezas boost. Gohan was already training a few years and reached Blue level in the ToP arc

[@latinalover26]

Gohan with 2 hours of training went from buu level of power to TOP levels of power

[@YodaSmokes]

@@latinalover26 exactly. Maybe even weaker than buu level since he had lost all his power.

[@cory6640]

@@latinalover26 in the manga Gohan pretty much just stretches a little while staring at Kefla, then gets his fight sense back to such a degree that his base is equal to her. Meanwhile, Manga Kale was equal if not above PSSB, and Kefla would only be greater. The gap for Caulifla and Kale was big in the manga, so they likely didn't get the same amp as Goku and Vegeta get when fusing, but even the huge gap for Zamasu and Black proved enough to still amp. Vados even considered Kefla unmatched on the battlefield, despite the other contenders.

[@SoupXeno7605]

Yo i was so hyped when Seth came in

[@punishedvenomsnake716]

Already got my popcorn ready, this comments section is gonna be a mess 🤣

[@destiny6080]

It already started buddy

[@specialnewb9821]

Gogeta. Gogeta is always #1. Gohan might match or beat past Gogeta but Gogeta is always getting exponentially more powerful because of the multiplier with fusion. Also in terms of raw speculation, Gogeta could likely achieve Ultra Gogeta (using Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego) by this time.

[@justsomeshinigamiwithanapp5955]

They literally state they are talking about broly arc gogeta

[@gene081976]

Further more I think Beast Gohan had more chance against past Vegito (from Goku Black) than Gogeta. This is because I based Gogeta’s powers on Gotenks powers and ability. Vegito would cap out at the transformation that Goku and Vegeta had. But if Gogeta is anything like Gotenks from the fusion dance, he can access power transformations beyond Goku and Vegeta: Gotenks can transform to SSJ3 where Trunks and Goten could not. Gogeta could tap into perfected UI/UE? Or maybe even the same transformation and Gohan. If Gotenks can do it, Gogeta can do it. SSJ3 Gotenks was much stronger than SSJ Gotenks. So New transformation Gogeta will be stronger than Vegito.

[@ZenRyoku]

0:00 Gogeta Blue....period Exponential power increasement vs a single being... even if it's Gohan Beast...no contest...💯💯💯

[@MrTandogant]

Gogeta Blue. There is no discussion here.

[@Zor1nX]

W comment

[@destiny6080]

Fr

[@ggamesgarner8027]

There definitely is a discussion here dude it depends on the timeline. Broly movie Gogeta Blue would lose to beats Goham no if ands or buts about it. Current Gogeta blue would win though.

[@Zor1nX]

@@ggamesgarner8027 the gogeta from the movie is still beating this mf ass in blue and still getting stronger while fighting. You seen the moves this mf did to broly with no effort?

[@BeastXIS]

There is. Gohan negged Cell Max way easier than how Gogeta Blue beat Broly. Also many guides called Gohan vs Cell Max the strongest decisive battle in history. Which would include Gogeta vs Broly. L

[@edppoopsock168]

I truly don’t see how gohan is the strongest despite not training NEARLY as much as goku and Vegeta

[@mkloven101]

Plot

[@BeastXIS]

He has potential

[@destiny6080]

@@BeastXIS No it makes toei money

[@edppoopsock168]

@@BeastXIS potential is different than saying he’s definitely the strongest which is what was stated

[@breakablehate2207]

@@edppoopsock168 he was stronger than Goku and raditz, he even was stronger than Vegeta as a great ape. Gohan is insane bro

[@Jack_online]

I see beast gohan Being on the scale of evolution blue vegeta and blue kaioken goku, nothing comparable to blue gogeta

[@r_ace2510]

Its funny how you guys mentioned about Gogeta and Broly's fight, Broly only lived because two of Frieza's ex space force recruits wished the 7 dragon balls to save his life and teleport to another planet. Imagine if Gogeta's final move did hit Broly, would he live tho?

[@Astralyang]

There’s no guarantee it would have killed Broly , he might of returned him to base form and been knocked out he did still tank a stardust breaker and lived because broly soul is not evil gogeta attacks are gonna be weaker after all and weren’t they trying to subdue broly? you saw it when goku tried to subdue him twice with that spirt attack. I doubt it would have really killed him

[@r_ace2510]

@@Astralyang Even Whis said that Gogeta intended to end Broly with their final move but didn't land it. Gogeta smirked at the end knowing Broly was saved by the dragon balls lol

[@Astralyang]

@@r_ace2510 end as in end the battle and put a stop to him. Not to kill they wouldn’t kill off one of the last of their race . There was no evil intent

[@TheOppositeOfLegend]

Well considering that Goten and Trunks were aged up in the movie and in the manga, the last time we saw Goten and Trunks they weren't, Piccolo and Gohan would know how strong Goku and Vegeta are.

[@Lord_teleportdinero]

Goku and Vegeta are still stronger than beast gohan. We all know vegeta would not let gohan beat him. and also Vegeta is relative to a god of destruction go Han would not be able to defeat toppo. Go Han’s new form and stronger than blue but evolution and Keio Ken blue are stronger I think of Gohan’s new form as a Super saiyan 2 multiplier on his ultimate form

[@kenroyforrester156]

@@Lord_teleportdinero where is your source of this information?

[@brandonhairston1268]

@@Lord_teleportdinero head cannon at its finest.

[@DethaneGames]

Yeah but this movie was written before that so everything that happens in this movie is based off of post T.O.P., where Goku had no access to UI not post Granolah and Moro. Which would make Gamma 1 and 2 roughly Blue level and every statement made about Goku and Vegetas power level based on that time period. So leaving aside UI and UE, as well as zenkai/experience they've gotten since the T.O.P., the characters in this movie ARE stronger. I still put Jiren over Cell Max and Broly personally. I have a hard time believing Jiren couldn't beat Moro or Granolah either though. Remember, without UI Goku still can't touch Jiren, and if Goku would've maintained UI he was spanking even Granolah for the brief moments silver hair appeared.

[@kenroyforrester156]

@@brandonhairston1268 exactly 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@batmanssgss]

Ayeo Seth is in the video? W

[@qlasalle]

Are we really having this conversation? I'm ngl if I had to tell myself only 5 years ago geekdom would make this video I wouldn't believe it

[@jarredfiedler5811]

Yeah because of statements made in the film and Toriyama's statements about Gohan Beast, Orange Piccolo, and Cell Max. Those statements indirectly state Gohan Beast is relative to UI Goku and UE Vegeta now, which can make some strange sense.

[@Geekdom101]

i mean i wouldnt have known that either because neither movie existed 5 years ago.

[@K-I-A-N-T-E]

@@Geekdom101 facts 🤣🤣

[@qlasalle]

@@Geekdom101 I just wouldn't believe the present it sounds a bit... like fan fiction. In two years we may be discussing how Tien achieved Super human and how powerful humans are and all their hybrids. Like for me it's not legit until geekdom covers it so Gohan actually having a white haired form that can rival a Gogeta that bodies a Super Broly sounds like a comment I would percieve as over zealous 5 years ago. Super has been very interesting. I didn't believe XV3 would be a thing but you the only person I'll trust on a whim. Since we getting fan service imma put my bid in for a Goten and Trunks movie

[@bronxprpapi]

He beat a mindless bootleg cell smfh Danny how can you even talk about this it’s ridiculous and he beat cell by hitting his weak spot a fusion of Goku n Vegeta loses to Gohan like Cmon people seriously Gogeta slaps Gohan on any new form

[@neotoad456]

Discount cell vs budget increased ssj2 gohan.

[@TBROWN247]

Facts. Then gohan use one move then he turn back to normal. His form remind me of frieza when first turn gold.

[@bronxprpapi]

This shouldn’t even be discussed Gohan fans be bugging out really hyping this craziness up

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

Eh it's definetly a debatable topic especially when we didn't see Gohan beast even try he just dominated cell max like he did to cell back then.

[@TBROWN247]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 but cell max wasn't perfect tho. This cell max look like the old broly.

[@TrapDragonZ]

Man I wish we could get some hard facts from the anime or the manga but these conversations are fun in the meantime

[@Cay9z]

I still dont understand why people think Jiren Broly and Beerus are stronger than Gogeta blue, The fusions of 2 of the strongest warriors in the Multiverse, Their power is not doubled, it is magnified and amplified through the inclusion of rival boosts

[@rbrown4220]

Beerus could be possibly stronger but jiren and broly definitely not but i believe broly had the potential to beat gogeta but it would be dumb to write it that way

[@ricardojrbatalla5368]

Gogeta blue beat Broly with ease

[@rbrown4220]

@@ricardojrbatalla5368 you missed the point

[@ricardojrbatalla5368]

@@rbrown4220 what point?

[@ricardojrbatalla5368]

@@rbrown4220 what point?

[@tebowmuney]

You don’t like Gohan getting a rage boost, but it’s fine when broly does 😂

[@anthonytrevino3191]

This is peak KZbin DB content 🔥🔥.

[@taherbasha4108]

Making Gohan stronger than goku and vegeta (who spent years and years training to get divine power) just by watching piccolo die is the worst thing to eve happen to dragon ball

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

He did the same as a child in Z when he was first introduced without any training where were you then? Gohan trained confirmed it at the end of the movie Lols

[@newhybrid101]

Thats how Gohan is

[@KingGodzillaTM]

I’m pretty sure it’s because he has the most potential. This has always been his thing

[@taherbasha4108]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 he trained with goku wtf u mean?

[@taherbasha4108]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 plus its ssj2 its not like exceeding goku PUI who is training daily with whis!!!!

[@nikgokuhil]

Issue with Broly is that he catches up too fast, he was on ropes multiple times throughout the fight, but each time his power would rise or he would transform. He went from saiyan saga to cell saga worth of transformations in matter of hours, in terms of power levels its an even bigger jump. Point that I'm trying to make is that Gogeta had to go blue and end the fight asap, before Broly had any chance to catch up tp him, so Broly probably wasnt that far behind

[@justinryanvalencia05]

that asswhooping gogeta gave him was doing so much damage that brolly power growth was stopped dead in its tracks.. gogeta was toying with him, i dont think brolly ever had a chance of catching up in that fight

[@nikgokuhil]

@@justinryanvalencia05 Watch it again, Broly did transform again mid battle with Gogeta, more of the ascended super saiyan form. Whatever the case may be. it was wise of Gogeta to end the fight early

[@mildsthatyac2097]

@@nikgokuhil it didn’t matter if he powered up again gogeta was straight beating him into the ground without trying with no effort at all

[@NeCoruption]

What kills me is that people actually think they will see gohan in this form again. We all know it was a one and done plan for the movie that was supposed to be about piccolo

[@cosmosofinfinity]

13:18 That's a brilliant observation, Gamma 2 even acts like Goku and Gamma 1 like Vegeta. Gamma 2 sacrificing himself for the fight could have been used as a stand-in for what Goku might have done if he was in the fight (a sort of repeat of the Cell Games)

[@MegaJiblet]

This actually changes the movie for me haha

[@devilmayclarify666]

This is QAnon-level mental gymnastics

[@marctizzle1000]

I don't see a scenario where Gohan will ever be able to close the gap between Goku or Vegeta let along them combined. Gogeta went blue. That doesn't say it's his max.

[@squasholantern6343]

Gohan fan bois will say gohan. Eventhough hes trained absolutely zero. They always say emotion of his human side. But if that were true all women on earth would be the strongest on earth.

[@penisnt]

@@squasholantern6343 that is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

[@penisnt]

Gohan says in the movie he doesn’t think Goku or Vegeta could have beat Cell Max. Toriyama says Orange Piccolo put him on the same level as Goku and Vegeta, and Beast Gohan is stronger than Orange Piccolo. Toriyama never specified if he meat Blue Goku or UI Goku but I doubt Orange Piccolo is UI Goku level lol.

[@jimjamjon2285]

Facts like how in tf is this even a debate. I love gohan but he gets ABUSED by base-ssj gogeta

[@amineramdan2856]

I can only assume that you didn't watch the movie or you didn't hear Gohan saying that Cell max might beat Goku and Vegeta

[@Zsonny5000]

Hoyaaaaa uncle Seth is here🤘🏽

[@saulviz3640]

I don't care what gohan and vegeta said, gogeta and jiren are peak monsters

[@ggamesgarner8027]

Jiren would break his hand if he hit Beast Gohan or UE vegeta just like moro did against MUI goku. Jiren is old news and fodder now dude. Got surpassed by moro 73.

[@XChristmasManX]

@@ggamesgarner8027 How when in the movie post Granola arc vegeta and goku haven't caught up to jiren and the gods yet. And that movie was done by Toriyama.

[@esketitesketit1658]

The gohan meat riding is insane

[@hariffton8482]

Man, mood killed when Seth came in

[@holylucane9019]

why

[@Anvaya24]

Dude one shotted broly level opponent, so i think he surpasses gogeta at this point.

[@Dustinadamharris]

It was a weak point and cell max wasn’t even completed

[@Anvaya24]

@@Dustinadamharris his strength was complete only his mind control program was missing.

[@edwardgoliath5295]

One thing that's wrong again is that Piccolo can assess their power. And you missed the fact that piccolo literally helped them fused against broly and sense the whole fight from the beginning. So piccolo comparing the gammas to them isn't far fetch.

[@malkazaarfalkon2854]

Piccolo Can't sense God kei so we shouldn't take his statement for fact it's a line from the narrative

[@ninjawaver]

Exactly! He may not be able to sense god ki BUT he also can't sense the Gammas but yet he STILL knew the strengths. I think ppl are downplaying that so much. Plus the writers can have ANY character say something useful.

[@ninjawaver]

@@malkazaarfalkon2854 But he can't sense the Gammas either but still knew their power in comparison to Goku and Vegeta. Besides he could sense Broly's ki and knew he was giving them trouble so either way his opinion Is valid. And remember the writers probably just want to make sure the line is in there let alone Who says it. Roshi said the same thing about Vegeta surpassing Goku in BoG and it was TRUE.

[@edwardgoliath5295]

@@malkazaarfalkon2854 Just because they can't sense god ki doesn't mean they can't scale. Their are literally people out their stronger then goku and vegeta that can be sense anyone who can sense ki. So it's easy to assess goku and vegeta's level when facing an opponent who's power is visible for everyone to feel.

[@edwardgoliath5295]

@@ninjawaver Exactly man.

[@Harvey2Tall]

Best parts of the movie: Gohan first arrives at RR camp Piccolo transforming Gohan using special beam cannon

[@ragnorak5095]

Gohan can't beat vegeta/goku individually...let alone fusion lol. Goku/Vegeta has proven feats...Gohan randomly transform ...

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

Toriyama and the characters in the movie would say otherwise but we'll see when the manga addresses this.

[@tonyroberson8528]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 they’ve said and shown a lot of things. But he’s not the one who are “the universe strongest”

[@bobkys7916]

Did you not watch the video? Gohan biggest feat is that he clapped cell max who not even broly can beat, and Broly clapped goku and vegeta

[@cheeseburgerfreddy6350]

@@tonyroberson8528 He is if the manga addresses this mobie

[@tonyroberson8528]

@@cheeseburgerfreddy6350 bro no. Cause then what would be trying to state that broly or cell max was the strongest prior before gohan had gained the form. He’s not out there fighting guys like a Granola and Gas. He’s fighting the same mf since he was a teen just a whole different model.