Going from a human ‘doing’ to human ‘being’ for the scapegoat

There's a huge difference between living like a human 'doing' vs a human 'being - particularly for the scapegoat survivor of narcissistic abuse. This video explains how we can get wedded to our "thought of" experience over our present moment experience. Next, I describe how and why this happens to survive as the scapegoat child to a narcissistically abusive parent. But, watch to the end to learn a tactic to draw your attention from your thought-based experience and back to your immediate experience in this moment.
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[@katica5629]

After 26 years of being a scapegoat I‘m a human being now. It felt so weird at first because I felt like I was worthless but now I enjoy it.

[@starseeds8121]

Glad you became a human being. I hope to feel this way some day.

[@Gemmarose9012]

I’m happy for you that you made the shift while you’re young.

[@kaoutar6921]

Good for you soon I'll get there

[@katieg7679]

Yes! Thank you. I've often felt like I'm not doing something right by just being. Like you can't live you're life automatically, you have to go into manual mode and put together a personality that can be loved by your parents. It leaves you feeling arbitrary and fake, and then you realize years later that you have no idea who you are.

[@tealiaellis7348]

Well said...

[@joellenklemek138]

Yes don’t know who I am or what I want. Forgot how to want. Can’t make myself do anything. I am lost in my thoughts. Of the future and the past. Ends up being received as controlling sometimes. Just now I told my daughter that 2 days from now she should ride in a funeral procession with my son since they are both pall bearers. I was thinking if she rode with me or her boyfriend she would be separated from the other pall bearers. Why? She can figure it out and they can wait for her. Why am I telling her this? Why am I thinking about it?

[@francesbernard2445]

Children at risk do feel forced to make a choice for the rest of their lives only because in their environment they come to believe too that they will never be enough. While they are at the same time under the impression that there is no higher power to help them.

[@northerngaltrue]

Profound. Thank you for new insights. Very true of my own experience.

[@northerngaltrue]

@@joellenklemek138 Yes exactly. I think we spend so much time trying to get it “right”. It’s easy to forget (if we were ever allowed) what we want or desire. I knew that all my own instincts were likely selfish or wrong so I constantly watched to see what the “right” choice was.

[@jembartlett]

Spooky timing. I started saying to my therapist that I felt ambivalence about all the journalling, books and you tube videos I ingest. As helpful as they are, I'd started to feel like the cure was the disease in disguise. She said that's because they reinforce that precocious, thinking version of yourself that you were forced to develop at a young age in order to survive. And that's the self that needs to die off, in order to truly heal and grow. There is such a tension there, because thinking is all I've ever known. And yet it runs me ragged, grinds me down to a dull nub of a man. There are so many amazing channels and books out there, designed to help, and yet very few people acknowledge that their content might not always be the kind of help one needs. Kudos Jay.

[@goldieh7121]

I get what you are saying. I have found that some self help channels have actually felt damaging to me, if I take what they say to heart. I am learning to only take in what resonates with me, and what Jay says really resonates.

[@taniabluebell3099]

💯 nicely written. Our natural ability to survive in the closed system is the thing that holds us down when we break free.

[@sarahgorsuch1776]

Yes!!!! That’s exactly my experience! It’s interesting…my therapist has actually affirmed the critical thinking skills that the (over)thinking part of me has developed (but I immediately invalidate those “good” assessments). She wants me to be confident in my ability to discern (after 42 years of gaslighting from my family) and to teach me to trust my gut. At the same time, she is challenging the obsessive, ruminative thinking that borders on OCD. I never thought of that as a part of me that needs to die. That’s fascinating and so true…but a scary thought because that thinking and ruminating were what we used to keep us safe. Thanks for sharing that insight. 🤍

[@christar9527]

How did you ever find such a good therapist? All the ones I’ve seen were horrible. I have bad insurance.

[@jembartlett]

@@christar9527 took me 15 years. They are a needle in the haystack. I had to go through at least 6 bad therapists, and thousands of dollars, to get there. If you're open minded, I'd consider stepping outside the clinical system and looking for a psychoanalytic psychotherapist. The good ones really believe in what they practice, so much so, they will dramatically lower the fee (something you tend not to see when people are obsessed with being "professionals"). Good luck. This road aint easy!

[@Maria-it2qy]

It's amasing how well you understand and describe the inner-workings of an adult scapegoated child. Thank you Dr. Reid.

[@dotsyjmaher]

It is refreshing in this time to hear a thoughtful, intelligent, genuine human being under any circumstance..but you REALLY obviously put a lot of work into these amazing articulate explanations of this serious problem of narcissistic abuse..thank you

[@valeriegonzalez6629]

I agree. I really appreciate your depth. I have been a scapegoat, and I believe that role has a very special quality that distinguishes a scapegoat from all the other survivors of narcissistic abuse. You get "hollowed out" in a very special way.

[@starseeds8121]

Agreed

[@starseeds8121]

@@valeriegonzalez6629 I agree.

[@1RPJacob]

If you want to heal, you have to accept the possibility the relationships with narc people will be terminated. (mother, father, friends, partner). There is no possibility to heal and keep the relationship with narcs.

[@pelletier4432]

Absolutely the truth. Time and space to regulate is not possible if emotions are constantly disregulated into the same patterns.

[@TaquitoFestival]

Yep. You cannot grow around people who thrive upon making you feel small.

[@starseeds8121]

I agree.

[@starseeds8121]

@@TaquitoFestival yep.

[@taniabluebell3099]

My mom regularly claimed to be the expert in many things. It was implied that me and my siblings should seek her "wisdom" when we sought to do something big or small. I instinctively did things on my own since childhood and my mom would yell at me "if you only listened to me, why do you do things on your own?". My mom was always campaigning to my family that I was destructive because I didn't involve her in my decision making process. I didn't know at the time that my mom saw my independence as a threat and that she couldn't control me. If I had only continued my independence streak. However, after I graduated college I wanted to "fit in" with my mom and sister who had become close. This was the hook my mom needed for me to finally obey her and that's when the real suffering began. It's like my mom punished me for not being subservient up to that point and did everything to exclude me from the family bond I so desperately wanted. My sister who had been the lost child until she was elevated to golden child in college became a willing soldier to shame me for not being in full compliance with my mom. No matter how much I tried to fit in it was daily attacks by mom and sister that slowly chipped away at my being.

[@oceana9565]

I went through an exactly similar situations. I can feel you. Everyday was like the more I tried to prevent her from hating or judging me the more my mom did. And my sis just agrees with everything she says and blames me. Now I've stopped giving any importance to both of them n trying to recover from it and be independent. I still struggle from living freely. I feel as though I need permission from others. How do you deal with it? And what is the situation now? Would love if you could share❤

[@lisaperez8276]

I’m so sorry. I empathize.

[@Harry-qw5jv]

Wow Tania, my experience is similar, I also was very independent while I was living under my moms roof, but then in adulthood, after college, and when I felt I had just no one in the world she hooked me right back in and for 9 years she was coercively controlling my whole life. She's a terrifying woman. Thanks for sharing you experience with your own mom.

[@taniabluebell3099]

Oceana- It took me a long time to cut ties with them. I had spent so many years pretending and taking a backseat to keep the peace that the undercurrent of resentment finally caught up. When I let myself mourn the family I would never have is when their hold on me was broken. When I became indifferent to them and no longer sought a relationship that's when they suddenly started love-bombing me to draw me back in. I played along for a few months. What they didn't know was I had already planned to go no contact. I didn't want to tip them off so I quietly sold my house and moved out of state. I made no announcement that I was leaving. I was in control now. I tried in vain for nearly two decades to resolve and reconcile only to be gaslit and accused of living in the past by them. They never acknowledged what they did to me. I blamed myself for many years. But no matter big of a people pleaser I became they continued their overt and covert abuse. I dealt with it by going no contact. That's a personal and thought outdecision. You have to make that decision for yourself. For me I knew what was in store for me by maintaining a relationship with them. I didn't want to live a life pretending and making myself less when around them when I knew despite it they would continue to lie, exclude me and spread rumors about me.

[@taniabluebell3099]

Thank you, Lisa. 💕

[@debtaylor8664]

Facing the tidal wave of ego annihilation was terrifying for me. I had to face the fact that i was NEVER even there for my mum and that my identity which was faked had to be let go of in order to make way for the real me who can experience real connection. Thanks Jay

[@makaylahollywood3677]

I've been coping my entire life. Adjusting to fit into the family, feel excepted especially during the holidays. Mother and I were close- she's gone. And, even she was immature. I grieve my poor little self and all my efforts to be better, thinner, kinder, more generous...just to try to be loved.

[@rascallyrabbit]

I quit a position I really enjoyed and was elected to because my mind over ruled me with overwhelming fear and I ran away from happiness and success

[@203blessings]

It feelings like having to go into a trance to be around the narcissistic family reality. Thanks for the free ebook. I can't afford the online course yet.

[@CFDBM_TEAM]

Melanie tonia evans has a GREAT course .I purchased it but because of extreme narc abuse poverty I couldn't completely afford .she sponsored me & I owe it..look her up .she's awesome & understands our common financial problems

[@dominique-valois]

Growing up having a narcissist for a mother, I had to contort myself to operate in the most dysfunctional of ways to survive. So, if I could contort myself out of shape just to survive, I should resilient enough to uncontort myself back to a functional form to live.

[@HAMIDK007]

I like playing football growing up I was shamed for it constantly aswell as being shamed for how I used to dress I ended up going away from football and dressing shit to go into the background in college in high-school because of all the abuse

[@pelletier4432]

Making ourselves small, yep.

[@Angaloth19]

I definitely had to go from BEING to DOING to survive as a scapegoat of a narcissist mother. I am the only daughter out of 4 kids and she was insanely hateful and jealous towards me, even though I was naturally not a rebellious kid at all. I now I’m 33 and notice I’m “DOING” when I’m holding my breath to the point of distress.

[@fairygurl9269]

Being aware is a Huge Step up the Path to Change I commend You, (damn near 40 and grateful I found healthy Support 4 years ago, I feel safer than ever in my whole Life, I trust me More vs feeling like a Reactor and Abusive and Abandonment to the "Self"

[@angelakh4147]

I am going to add my appreciation for your work to the many others’ here. I have gotten a lot from Dr. Ramani, Dr. Les Carter, and others, but you always seem to wrap it up in a concise easy to grasp package. You bring it all together for me and make me feel like I see the whole picture. I feel like I can navigate this life. And best of all, you make me feel proud of what a strong, intelligent survivor I am. Look at me! Look at what I accomplished in the face of such horror, such alienation, such a total lack of support. I’ve never thought of myself that way. Thank you. Your work is vital to us.

[@goldieh7121]

I agree with everything you said and you said it so well!

[@christar9527]

Yes. I just read his article on family scapegoats and his description of why we were targeted rang totally true. Scapegoats are great people and we were lied to all along. It was a good reminder of how much we have going for us . The malignant narcissistic parents (which I had two of) were lying and were never good people so they hated us because they couldn’t be as good as us. I needed to hear that badly.

[@starseeds8121]

@@christar9527 I agree and me as well.

[@johndeal4381]

My dad was a high school band director. As a young child, I identified with him due, ironically to his interest in sports. I was the golden child and my brother referred to himself as 'the other one.' When I was 12, I joined my dad's band and played French horn. This became my new identity to hold on to the golden child status. But my main interest was in sports. Unfortunately, when i tried out for ball teams, I always was cut as coaches saw me as being the band director's son. i went to music camps every summer and was 1st chair there as well as 1st chair in all State band. But I still considered myself an athlete, and I was very athletic. When I got to college, I developed an eating disorder and depression and lost sense of who I was. Yet, I continued with the French horn and became 1st chair there at a large university. But still, my own sense of my true self was that i was an athlete. When I graduated from college, I couldn't hold a job and failed miserably. I ended up back home where i became the scapegoated child and my brother was the golden child. i hid in my room from 22-35, except for a few jobs I did hold briefly. My father became the dictator and antithesis of who he was when I was a child and could do no wrong. Unfortunately, I ended up on disability for depression and never had any quality of life. I never married or even dated after college as I was trapped by my father's ideal of who i was supposed to be. Even to this day, I will pull out my horn and play at church occasionally to maintain that attachment to my father's ideal of who I was supposed to be. even though he is dead, I guess I still am trying to live up to his standards of who i am supposed to be.

[@underthesignofthemoon]

thank you for sharing john. i wish you healing

[@leahflower9924]

Band was the only fun thing for me in high school but if my dad was the director it wouldn't be fun at all lol the director's son was in marching band with me and he was miserable

[@starseeds8121]

I feel your pain especially about hiding in your room.

[@cyndigooch1162]

@johndeal4381 This is absolutely heartbreaking and I've found that depression is often unresolved grief, which might've been caused by the loss of your preferred interest, not to mention natural ability for sports! 😥

[@cindyanderson9425]

This information is SO extremely valuable, understanding the internal "struggle" that goes on. As I've chosen to disengage from family, not be around them at this time, it really helps give me "ease" to understand that if I were there, I'd likely need to fall back to old unhealthy behaviors to try to make the situation OK. That old behavior is not OK for me any longer, as I continue working towards realizing who I really am vs. the false identity created in childhood and re-enforced in the ways I've interacted as an adult. No better time than NOW, to continue on the healthy pathways of Change.

[@jilross4892]

I recall when I was a small girl, age 6 or so a dog jumped into my face and bit me badly. He looked so harmless to me. I was shaking of the shock and my mother started screaming at me. And I felt guilty

[@goldieh7121]

Not only were your parents not there for you as they should have been, they added to your trauma. I'm so sorry you went through that 💕

[@jilross4892]

@@goldieh7121 thank you

[@goldieh7121]

@@jilross4892 💕

[@marcuslong9761]

i got the attention of a GM in Kansas City after working really hard at a job. I was really torn on whether or not to go (I was more indecisive at that time). I asked my dad and he gave me a bunch of political biased excuses why i shouldn't take the transfer. I ended up staying where i was at, my boss found out about the transfer, was upset, and the situation imploded. I got a call from a GM in St. Louis two weeks later asking me to run my own branch. But it was too late. I let myself be frozen by the words of my dad, and his feelings on the transfer. My dad's feelings of pause influenced me, when all i really wanted was support. I should have stayed in the moment and trusted my own judgement, and the been proud of the work I had done up to that point. This was not the first time my dad had done this when i brought him in on my decision making process. He has a way of persuading me through his own fears, to take on his feelings during an event, and invalidate mine. That was my mistake.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

I feel like I have been goaded in to behaving badly by the stonewalling. I've been accused of ''shouting'' and of being angry but I was trying to talk to people who would not listen and who planned not to listen. Apparently they discussed that there would be no conversation with me, I've been stonewalled on this issue for 20 months. I have to give up trying to make them see. They don't want to see. The only outcome they're happy with is me just just lying down and accepting their projections. (Paranoid, sensitive, emotional, angry, abusive, mentally ill). OMG there is so much projected on to me. I reject the initial label and more keep coming because I dared to stand up to the first label. And YET, they completely believe that I'm terrible and they're perfect.

[@debbie6415]

I so relate to this. It’s like my family does not want a positive relationship with me. It’s either I lay down and take their abuse or they have no interest in a relationship. It’s abusive or nothing. It’s been so hard coming to accept this.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

any tips!? How have you lived with this impossible reality?

[@debbie6415]

I haven’t really found a peaceful way to live with it yet. Part of me hopes it might still change and that one day they’ll reach out and want to repair, but more of me knows this won’t happen. I don’t think they’re capable of taking responsibility for part of it. It’s just about winning. I struggle with letting go and moving forward with out any family, essentially orphaning myself., but I don’t think I can just sit back and let them continue to intentionally hurt me anymore. Both options are terrible. I’d love to hear how others have dealt with this.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

@@debbie6415 wishing us both the miracle of peace 2022 🤞🍀🕊

[@christar9527]

That’s typical of narcissists. Their minds are totally twisted backwards. They are incapable of seeing how bad they really are because they’re not strong enough to want to deal with it. Easier for them to project onto a good person who is likely to listen and be accountable when they shouldn’t be.

[@catjones2684]

So I’ve always had this strange memory of being about six or seven at my school sports day about to compete in a 100 meter race, running with other kids my age. I felt strong, confident and fired up, excited about the race. I suddenly became aware that my mother is present at the sports day and turning around to the sound of her voice calling my name felt myself sinking into a vortex of dread, self doubt and powerlessness. The reason I have clung to this memory I suspect is because there was also on the edges of my awareness a sense of frustration at her presence and the clarity I had about how her being there was disempowering. I felt the energy leave my body in that moment and my legs became weak. Then when running I had no strength at all and while trying to get to the finish line found she was not only in my way emotionally “spiritually hogging the oxygen “ but physically blocking my progress as she stood two metres from the finish line yelling my name like a demented cheerleader from satire hell. I couldn’t complete the race because she picked me up like a rag doll and hugged me twirling me around and by this point I obviously was disconnected from the ground and the race itself. Her presence there had been entirely performative and sabotaging for me but obviously my experience wasn’t relevant. What mattered was that she had been there, like a good mother, cheering me on. There was no point in my bringing up the fact of how my experience was different from hers so I told no one and just acted -you know, kind of dumb and grateful and wishing to be invisible. Her need to be seen as that great mom was paramount and I never spoke to anyone about it’s impact on me or how invasive on every level her being there was for me.

[@catjones2684]

I think what made this experience so odd also was that she never cheered me on or encouraged me in any way when we were alone. She was the meanest, cruelest and genuinely evil person imaginable behind closed doors but her altruistic persona and earth mother-always available and ever giving was established and went unquestioned socially. This division between my experience of reality and the performance of both my parents in the outside world felt like a fact and something I had to collude with or else. Any attempt to question or point out the disparity between the image they projected and the way they treated me was further evidence of my brokenness and malignant stain on the otherwise ideal family that had the misfortune of having to tolerate me. My little brother was treated completely differently from how I’d been treated and his goodness was held up as proof of my badness. To this day my father has never once asked me how I am if I have contact. He tells me how (great and amazing-always) my brother is. When I asked him why this was once and commented that it made me sad, he reacted as if I’d thrown boiling water on him. “Why are you the only person who’s allowed to be hurtful in this family?” Was his reply text. I’m trying to get out from under the weight of all this -it’s hard but I’m grateful for this work. Thanks Jay for shining light on these experiences.

[@goldieh7121]

So sorry you went through this. Altruistic narcissistic parents are a special kind of icky that goes under the radar to anyone else in the vicinity. In case you haven't yet watched Jay's video on these types of parents, I found that it helped validate my experience.

[@catjones2684]

@@goldieh7121 thanks Goldie. I’m new to this community. Will watch it right away! They (altruistic narcs) are a special kind of icky! You’re right 🤣

[@goldieh7121]

@@catjones2684 Jay also has another great video called... feeling like you owe the narcissistic parent-and erasing the debt. It is helpful to know that there are people around that can see through an altruistic con job☺️

[@jeanetteoneil4562]

My adopted mom was a real monster and you describe it so exact ad it happened. I am 59 and I hope to enjoy the end of my life because my mom ruined my life and I kept attracting these creeps.

[@kuibeiguahua]

Jay, the Chinese have a saying 一字千金 “one word is worth a thousand in gold.” I think this thoroughly applies to your whole corpus of healing content. Thank you for existing!

[@llm8268]

This aspect of thinking vs being is universal and applies to the majority of people at this time. Most of us are in separation and suffer from it. That solution is for all of us. The scapegoat is more likely to seek help and hopefully transcendence since it suffers so acutely. All would eventually need to transcend their suffering to resolve the issue.

[@SusanaXpeace2u]

I want to fix things but I also know that I feel invalidated and erased by them. I have to GIVE UP THIS YEAR. I wasted 2020 and 2021 trying to get them to ''see'' that all I did was tell them they hurt me/ask them not to label me, and yet I have been demonised and mobbed. 2022 has to be the year I completely give up

[@goldieh7121]

Yes, they may never see, because it's all about them. When I would tell my mom how something she did made me feel, she would just respond with "how do you think I felt?. Wishing you the best in 2022💕

[@Sldindpunjab]

Honestly, I don't know how I am sometimes. And I don't know what do I like to do all the time. I'm just living to pay for the bills and achieving goals to feel less worthless. But nothing makes me happy at all and the toxic shame makes me feel constantly inappropriate wherever I go.

[@RK-qs5dy]

Thanks, Jay! There's so much to describe from my own experience of this de-identification process that I'll just say - thank you for being there for us, survivors, and being a safe person, who understands.

[@dapsolita]

Beautiful. Eloquent. I can tell you have done this work yourself because I am a bit behind you.

[@jilross4892]

I reconciled so many times only to be dissappointed again. Well my other relation ships did not work out.

[@jnl3564]

This was an incredibly painful video to watch to be honest. It's quite the catch 22 as you mentioned. One choice of being in the moment and experiencing emotions automatically brings up past pain, but the choice to live in my mind causes a similar pain of self abandonment (but its familiar and I have tools to deal with this pain). Pain pain pain everywhere.

[@ghostagee5232]

My dad was worse. I think psycho. He was all that, plus ambushing and prancing, just at your least aware moments. I still drop or lose things I am holding right in front of my eyes. Like fainting.Then his trained triangulated, flying monkey daughters. And I mean, consciously to torment and smear me. My mum was the cause but enabling and victim at times too. So she loved and believed me very much but overwhelmed herself. Bless her. She was too strong for her own good.

[@LilBrownieD]

The cursive test situation makes sense. If there's no loving reward for trying to be an earnest, achieving student, why go down that path? I can see how succumbing to the parent's assessment of you can help one feel their life is in alignment. Not succumbing would also seem to mean being ready for lifelong conflict with a parent... With no one on your side.

[@DeboraVMiranda]

I am a 63 years old scapegoat. I have been through all sort of therapies and I have never found before somebody who reflected me back better my own inner state than you do. Thank you so much.

[@goldieh7121]

Thanks Jay! This video helps me understand how I get pulled away from the present moment. It also explains why I need to have random thoughts and worries going on in my head constantly. It was always so important that I be mentally ready, and physically present, to respond appropriately to my parents (or basically anyone else), or to explain everything I was doing or had done. I also need to fill my mind with predicting and preparing myself for future interactions, so that I am prepared to defend myself. I've been conditioned to think this way and it pulls me away from focusing on what I need to and want to do. Having it described as a survival mechanism is so helpful. I've always thought I needed to have my mind going to focus, when actually I am now learning that quieting my mind helps me to focus much better. The notion of being versus doing gets a little wonky for me, because I felt that me being a certain way was more important than me doing anything. They were most focused on my looks and behavior. Doing too well at anything would trigger jealousy in both my parents. Thanks again Jay!

[@Lyrielonwind]

... explaining what I was doing or have done; that's why I overshare and still fighting to not doing it as well as being so nice that people look at me with suspicious eyes.

[@goldieh7121]

@@Lyrielonwind Yes, I get it! I think some people are suspicious of people that come across so nice in the beginning because many people who are overly nice in the beginning, can be predatory. They tend to spend that extra time trying to read responses, so they can figure out how to get what they want or how to use something against someone But, then there's us, the niceness comes from the need to not upset others. And I find myself looking at others too much, scanning for any threats from them or the environment. Sometimes I think that the way people talk to us can create a defensive energy and spur the explanations. Sometimes the other person is deliberately shaming us, but couching it in concern. And sometimes people are fishing for too much information and we feel an obligation to provide it, especially if someone is being nice to us.. I know there are people that are initially friendly that turn out to just be friendly people. But I am finding that many people that seem cautious and aloof in the beginning, and don't ask a bunch of personal questions, warm up to me when they spend enough time with me. Some of these people I have ended up feeling the safest around. The relationship grows overtime to where I can slowly share more and more with them. So, basically, I know the over sharing can be a trauma related bad habit we have, but pay attention to the times people may insidiously be trying to elicit explanations and too much information from you. Sometimes I catch it after the fact, but that has helped me to identify some people that I don't want to spend any more of my time with.

[@artwitch1362]

Very well said. When it comes to precise memories I don't have any at the moment, but more like a collection of all the relationships in my life - with the narcissistic family or outside of it. For me it got to the point that with every relationship that got close enough i would experience that abandoning of myself. Like there was a line, which when crossed automatically triggers this mechanism - my thoughts go back to the narcissist and I feel myself kind of fading away inside. All the thoughts, the motivation, I forget what I was talking about at that moment sometimes. And all that is left is this brain fog and walls. A lot of mental walls. And it does feel like I have no personality and no capacity to think then. Because I hide it all. It's kind of like "oh, you say you love me? I must go now". Or when asked about opinions I would do the same - dissapear. "Me? Opinion? No, unacceptable. You will think of me as a complete clown and hurt me of I even think of my true opinion" kind of thing. Now as I'm writing this comment I actually realise that this is exactly what my narcissistic father wanted me to be and thought of me as. Lazy. Unmotivated. Without goals. Without so called "balls" or temperament as you call it. But of course if these things would appear in me - they would be met with instant criticism and even aggression because "how dare you speak this way to ME?!". It's because they know you have all these qualities. But want you to believe you don't and act like you don't so they can abuse you and call you names because of how ashamed they are. And they are ashamed because it's not you. They see themselves in you. The worthless and without any goals in life. So the reminder to all of us - remember, it's not you. It's them. We are not broken. And we don't have to share THEIR broken realities.

[@questionmasks]

This was an important one jay. I had to just decline an invitation by them before xmas. No contact, although a daily struggle is the only way because that old way of identifying becomes an identity prison. It’s all about control with them. Learning more patience, inviting healthier people into my life.

[@21andstuff60]

Oh my god😭😭😭😭😭 finally somebody ahead of the recovery road is shedding the light onto this alienating experience... Thank you so much......!! I have been struggling all on my own for these weeks hopelessly meandering to collect myself in the midst of this sort of fragmentation of "myself". Basically I have been depending on different self-states to help me endure the buffer created by this conflicted experience with and between me, my self-states, and my life, trying to become a different me. I started self-sabotaging again due to bargaining aka self-doubts and the lack of positive rewards from my hardwork. I feel like it doesn't matter that I tried harder or not (aka I really think that I don't matter), even when i have gotten stronger and happier in general after my previous hardwork - pushing myself to do workouts and progress in life. But then boom, the self-sabotage comes up again as soon as I am getting good results and taking a small break to recover from muscle stiffness and exhaustion. And since then, I have been in conflict with myself again. The hardest thing is not to push forward, but it is that I am as though frozen and my heart area feels like a strong force to not let me move forward. It has been a heavy experience and I know it is just the damaging effects of the toxic effects of being the scapegoat that everything feels wrong even when it's not. You are the top notch on this really, thank you so much for putting this out because self-sabotaging damaged goods like me cannot afford my own drive, let alone any course. I have self-sabotaged so much that I am hitting rock bottom that has no end to it. I feel so heavy everytime I try to move forward. As though I am anchored underground and it takes all of me to take a breath. I am so glad I can progress on this journey due to this video of yours. I'm so grateful now. Because I am not alone in this alienating fragmentation. The only way to move forward for me is always to just go for it - because I have no drive but the drive itself - every thought only stands in the way and I cannot allow myself to risk not doing something because if I allowed myself time, the thinking takes over and that immediately means self-sabotage. But I have been so stiff and battling with stress related ailments that I have to take a break from too much work. But that makes me depressed again because the time only causes my drive to deplete, which is so hard to gather whenever it begins to slip. I am so tired to solely depend on myself but I have no choice. Nothing makes me happy because everything I once thought was meaningful ended up only a hurt for me at the end that I'd rather never cared than being devalued and ridiculed for being the scapegoat. It has made me give up on being the good person to everyone. I thought me doing that would change the world, even just for one person. But the disappointments have convinced me that my work is futile. I should focus on myself. But I have no drive. I have become just a person now, like a zombie. It takes so much bravery and instant action to push through - and it's even harder when I see no point in any effort. Whenever a thought takes place before I act upon, for example a workout, I'm doomed, and I give up on the workout. And when I am idle, I am doomed too, because I am not even building my life. Every way gets me very depressed and hopeless. I have been trying to stop trying to find my purpose because the overthinking is making me fall sick to my stomach due to stress and inaction that make me feel deteriorated from the inside out. I feel like every way is a brick wall that I only hurt myself by making a move. But remaining idle is suffocating in the air tight space. Omg writing too much but i am so glad that I finally got some validation by knowing this is not just me, and my "self"-lessness and the identity of the thought-constructed self is exactly how you described, it is the conflict in my experience and I want to be freed. I think it takes time for me to be better from this, and I have to be patient😭😭 thank you for this video 100%

[@debbie6415]

I hear you and am right there with you. I could have written this myself, except I am not nearly as good of a writer as you. Please don’t give up. You are seen and valued. ❤️

[@fairygurl9269]

As Jay and Debbie Says where you are now is Truly Remarkable♡ *Much Respect

[@goldieh7121]

I agree with Debbie and Fairy gurl. I get that damned if you do, damned if you don't, feeling. I am now finding that it's from receiving so many mixed messages and double binds growing up and with my ex. When I would finally do something, I would get criticized for not doing it right, doing the wrong thing or that's when they'd notice I hadn't been doing enough up until that point. Doing often actually brought more negative attention to me than not doing. Not doing was shameful, but was okay when it meant I was available to meet their needs. So sorry you are going through this mental anguish. I believe that there is a different way of experiencing life than we were taught, it just takes time to discover what it looks like. I believe good enough parenting would have allowed us to think for ourselves, and that it's okay to make mistakes and learn from them on our own terms. Bad parenting leaves us afraid to not be enough, but to afraid to do any that could lead to being enough. How is that for messing with our minds? Remind yourself that you already are enough and it's okay to make mistakes while learnIng and growing. But, be patient with yourself and the process. Be kind to yourself when you struggle. I really wished my parents had just been able to sit with me in stillness, without me feeling the need to entertain them or be entertained by them.. When I feel overwhelmed now, I ask myself to... "Please just sit with me in stillness and quiet. Please just be with me, without me having the need to figure it all out. Please just let me feel with out having to explain it.". Most of the time it has helped to calm my nervous system.

[@21andstuff60]

@@debbie6415 thank you so much😭😭 I was hesitant to read the comments when I saw that there were 3 replies to what I wrote as I woke up. I was so scared that there was something wrong with it and I began having a panic attack. I'm still living with eggshells these days which is not a good place to be... But I'm so grateful for these comments now because you guys are so supportive😭😭 I wish you the best in your journey of recovery too. Hopefully one day we can be on the other side the healthiest and happiest ever thought possible!! At times when I'm really hopeless, i think about looking back to my positive actions being proud of myself one day for pushing through despite all odds, and then I gather the strength to keep going despite the dread I'm experiencing inside, and it works. With all of you guys' lovely comments, I'm gonna give myself such a day, of making some positive changes😭💛

[@21andstuff60]

@@fairygurl9269 thank you, the same to you too 💛

[@dancinginthepurplereign4126]

This is a perfect description of my life. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

[@christinemurphy4367]

I am 55 years of age and was definitely discouraged when I started learning about my Mom's narcissistic abuse. I handled it by drinking and that led to much more pain. It was just absolutely awful. I am often so glad and grateful that she passed away 2 years ago. God knows how much we can take.

[@therealdeal3672]

Thank you for articulating this concept so well. I have often felt like and actually said to myself that I'm a human doing, not a human being. And I wanted to get more into being a human being. You're so right that within that scapegoat role and being so criticized, that you're in your head all the time trying to figure out how to survive and navigate the ever-changing whims of the narcissist! This is so valuable. I have so not learned to be the human being that I can be. Thank you for entering this space and especially for focusing on the scapegoat. It is a role that is a great burden and it is not talked about enough and it is not as well understood as it needs to be. You're doing really good work. You really pack a lot of thought into this topic and it is so appreciated!

[@imsunnybaby]

this is SO MAJOR!!!

[@Bronte866]

Here’s my example you asked for. I moved from the US to a major European city to get as far away as I could from my profoundly, criminally abusive parents & all their helpers. It wasn’t a holiday, I moved there. For the first time in my life I felt that my real life had finally started. Every single possible thing was different and I felt safe. Because of the latitude even the light from the sun was different. It was a gentle climate and a very civilized life. I told none of them where I was. I felt they finally couldn’t hurt me. I felt like I, ME, actually existed and I was real for the first time. I felt so happy. I lived there for 10 yrs and then something happened to a friend and I had to go back to the US. I was plunged back into my previous, hellish existence immediately.

[@gs5551]

You explained something to me that I never understood before about myself

[@Harry-qw5jv]

Thanks for another video Jay. Something I notice is each time I try to learn something new about how my thoughts operate, when there's something I need to observe in order to heal is what feels like OCD goes right up. Imstead of the noticing and being aware I know I'm meant to do, an Ocd like checking of every single thought and emotions ramps right up. The obsession is with healing and doing the tasks I'm meant to do to heal, the compulsion is doing them over and over, until my anxiety is just sky high and my brain feels like it's running at overheat level. It's really difficult to overcome this, I don't know how yet.

[@Harry-qw5jv]

@@MsRocksa glad it helped. Ocd is my nemesis!

[@MattyP650]

Thank you Jay. These videos are worth more than anyone can understand, maybe except you.

[@PAPPY8389]

Your videos always leave me with much to ponder wow your amazingly spot on I appreciate what your doing thank-you ❤️

[@mishkatzafreen3978]

Could you make a video on the role of fear in such a cult-like dynamic that reinforces a certain trauma bond to this pseudo-reality or thought-based reality that exists in the inner experience of the scapegoat?

[@fionaberg4997]

Ur the only person on the internet that has confirmed my theories and discoveries within my own psych after narcissistic abuse. Ur truly a genius. So emotionally intelligent

[@mptajosog]

My whole life I have been discounted by others....something that I have come to accept but what is so ironic to me is that those very same people steal my ideas, use my history to benefit themselves and copy me in numerous other ways. I am not a dumb woman. I see through people...something I learned to do with keen observation and a lifetime of narcissistic abuse. I have learned to accept that I am different and that I will always remain a loving soul and above all else a believer in God. Without a higher power I would certainly not be alive today. No matter how hard I try to avoid narcissists, situations in my life keep them in the forefront. I can say that I will no longer be the scapegoat for anyone. I even tried to tolerate the covert abuse from them for the sake of keeping my family together but it is not worth the heartache and my remaining years need to be happy ones.

[@geetallygee5089]

@janeakapeachesthealien2 feel this💌exact description be well✨be love 😘

[@suzannebunbury2961]

Thank you for this deep, wise, comprehensive and kind instruction and encouragement. It’s a revelation to me. Thank you for not “talking down” to your audience, we need the respect, knowledge and encouragement. You’re a treasure.

[@JamiePattersonBrady]

I also had an experience with cursive writing in second grade. I remember being so excited about writing like an adult and I put so much effort into my writing practice. The teacher (who usually was mean) said to bring it home to show off my beautiful penmanship, so I did. The result was I was told cursive writing is not important. Like John, thinking about Transformers and Thundercats was very comforting for me compared to the thought of investing energy in my cursive writing.

[@MA__]

Nice job on your cursive. Beautiful penmanship is an old-world art

[@kaworunagisa4009]

A double whammy when this thing happens to someone with alexithymia. I think I "get" about 30% of this ATM. As for experience, I don't remember the exact situation, but I have a blurry half-recollection of a thought process that pushed me to "believe" that I was cis (even though I didn't know the word at the time). That's 10+ years of my sense/recognition of self down the drain, and another 10+ years of sluggishly trying to (re-)discover who I really am. Thank you so much, Jay (my chosen namesake :) ). The information you share, and the way you present have been invaluable for me, both as themselves and as a foundation that let me make better sense of what I learned (and continue learning) elsewhere, like Dr.Ramani and Dr.Les Carter. Imho, you deserve at least the same level of recognition as them for the work you do.

[@fairygurl9269]

Dang it Man! Wiggling is my Specialty!!! Much Gratitude

[@fairygurl9269]

My Heart is Overwhelmed by the Comments.... *Authentic Hopefulness ♡

[@e_b_]

Thank you for your channel. I bought and took your course and I found it to be invaluable. I even got a special note book and took notes like I was at a lecture. I also want to thank you for pointing out how strong we as narcissistic abuse / scapegoated survivors are. I've been conditioned to believe that I am worthless, invisible (and when visible burdensome) and a failure regardless of my achievements. I know how much I've strived and how hard I've worked to survive this anguish. My whole life I've been struggling to understand and heal. It's such a silent struggle and oftentimes a very solitary triumph to have just survived this kind of abuse and still have a heart that is capable of love and the desire to live a better life. Thank you for acknowledging the resiliency and strength of all of us.

[@starseeds8121]

I too am glad that he acknowledges our strength.

[@thinkingallowed1st]

Thank you for your video. I now have understanding of the confusion ive been feeling all my life

[@TheUltimateMarioFan]

I absolutely can't stand Tolle and think he preaches new age nonsense but I appreciate the effort in what you're doing to bring more awareness to sufferers of child abuse

[@justtryingtospreadthegospe792]

This helped so much. I always felt like I “dissociated” somehow from moments with the narc. Literally this “dissociation” from who I was would happen even weeks before knowing I had to come into contact with him (father). Someone explained it as feeling like you’re in a “trance” and it’s exactly that. I would always feel “funny” (like the pit of my stomach was falling out) prior to having to interact with the narc and during the interaction I disregarded who I was so much so, that I can’t remember much of what happened during said interactions. You put it into such a constructive thought process for me that I totally agree and can identify with “human doing”. Thankfully after 9 months of no contact, I’ve found myself to be human being again. My trust in Jesus Christ to restore who He created me to be has been amazing and He has been true. After I trusted in what Christ says about me over what the Narc says, human being has been such a joyous adventure- but it’s definitely a “one day at a time” type of recovery. Thank you for your great work 🙏🏻 this video was a blessing and made me feel like my “dissociation” from who God created me to be wasn’t something purposeful but something I did for survival. Thank you again and May your videos continue to bless many. 🙏🏻🌿

[@starseeds8121]

Thanks for your post.

[@titarutledge431]

Me to a T. Except my abuser and my mother and my little brother and sister all left to live far away and they left me, at 16, with my covert nrci sister who was 11 months older and just stating college. Then short and long abusive relationships for the rest of my life.. Never did find love but I found you and Dr. Ramani and I'm angry but healing. Writing my book. Love you!

[@cairosilver2932]

In regard to solid ground - well I've used the 'afloat at sea looking for a life preserver' analogy myself. But I think you need to work on your emotions to make them less tumultuous (usually be validation and trying to get them, within your capacity, what they want). I think you have to do something with your emotions before you can let go of the life preserver/raft, or you are just slipping under the surface of a sea of guilt, shame, self hate, etc. I don't think you can just let go and expect solid ground.

[@poppysunshine5164]

Wow! I’ve stayed on course for some time now, and yes! this was very understandable! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I needed to understand how to become an observer- one simple way to notice, ‘Am I going towards the future? Or am I in the past right now?’ Thank you 🙏😊

[@oldcrone]

My neighbor is harrassing me. He accuses me of making noise when I am not doing anything. He has nothing better to do than harrass an old woman. I called the police.

[@thechaostrials1964]

This is a fantastic video. I am a survivor of a narcissistic mother and enabling father as well as narc abuse from a recent toxic, trauma bonded relationship. I've found that trying to "think" my way out of this simply fails. I've heard other therapists argue that I need to feel my way out, that is, "let go of the life preserver." I am also very introverted and wounded by almost all of the relationships I have ever had, resulting in my accepting the internalized story or version of who I needed to be to bond with these toxic people. Living in the moment fully with my senses allows me to be present and thus feel what I am actually feeling or experiencing. As a recent member of a 12-Step "recovery" program I see the same thing happening whenever I go off script, suddenly being gaslighted and reduced to my issues. Thank you.

[@dawnwilliams9524]

This makes sense as I have noticed myself doing exactly that. I talk myself out of the present moment so that it seems futile to me. Then I feel depressed and feel I need my parents even though I’m a grandparent!! It’s very tricky point but bravo for finding away to explain what is happening. Thank you.

[@WoodenFeather-xm3vl]

As I was listening to your video two key words stood out "compliance" and "echo". Both of these were constant in my child mind in order to survive the pathological weight of the narc parent. Our identity at the time is constructed from their distorted thinking and we have to distort our own thinking to lessen the pain and attacks. Of course now years later I see how this has crippled being present. I have become aware I am in the future or in the past in my thinking and being present is foreign and it is work for me to do this. I believe this focused effort will become easier with practice and refuse to give up. I am very aware that my constant perpetual motion is because I never learned how to be. I was never allowed to be a me, that was too high risk. When you have truly lived this, this video makes perfect sense, my thinking self can be my own worst enemy. Each new day is an opportunity to practice present living. It is a new goal to achieve this and overcome the feelings of weird and strange. Thank you again for your work, it is so helpful!

[@kimberleeskave]

this is so informative. although i knew i live in the past a lot with flashbacks, i didn't understand how can i live in the present and manifest the future. now i see it's because there is a huge identity with the narcissistic family and fear of floating into the unknown. it's not something i want to fear though! i know that's where all of my future greatness lies.

[@tessellatiaartilery8197]

Very understandable, very well explained. In my case escape into playing music was the only way to experience the present moment and flow. Additionally the sound created served to block out the noise of unstable domestic conflict. Not everyone has that escape route in their situation, but if it helps the only way to "sell" being allowed to use resources to do this was show the n parent how good they could look garnering praise for "creating" my achievements at a concert.

[@EarInn]

The story about John and the cursive writing sounds like turning to fantasy rather than thinking. I did both of those, fantasizing as a way of escape to something better and overthinking in an attempt to find a solution, some way to create a relationship with the narcissistic parent. Meditation, an invaluable path to what you call being in this video, helped me more than anything.

[@annewoods3528]

When I was a little girl, I loved fair tale stories, princesses, pink glittery gowns stuff. Yet as an adult, I became a mathematician/statistician. I wonder if this thinking way of being helped me be successful in this highly analytical profession. One of my therapists said I think my way out of everything. I was stuck however at "How do I know I am good?" In mathematics, one starts with a set of axioms, which you take as true. Everything else is proved or disproved from those (like presumed innocent until proven guilty). A scapegoated child had the opposite axiom: presumed bad. The cruelty the scapegoated child faces can not be overstated.

[@mysticsuzi]

I have to listen to these a few times because at some point I go fuzzy in my head and feel a little sick. Thanks for putting these out. The more I listen, the more I feel like I wasn't crazy and it's ok that I moved away from my birth family to have a life of ME

[@starseeds8121]

Same.

[@kbstrong429]

Yes I’ve watched a few videos and this is helping me. I have that like nervous feeling all the time like when I should feel calm. I hate it!

[@cordeliajosee]

Every time i am in the company of my Narc mother i fall apart and it takes me 3 days up to a week to get back to my feeling of self that i have managed to piece together over the years. In order to feel normal and not discombobulated and antsy and angry (at her and at myself) i listen to Jay Reid. I used to listen to some others, b u t NOBODY can articulate the actual situation like Jay. I thank you for your deep, articulate and compassionate understanding and for being here in the world - so specifically for us..

[@mptajosog]

I 100% agree that staying wrapped up in the narcissistic abuse narrative can become very unhealthy. It can control your life just like any other unhealthy behavior especially if you have OCD.

[@missfeliss3628]

this made more sense to me than anything.... wow.... perfectly articulated.. u saved me... thank u... omg... this is what i was trying to grasp at ❤❤❤

[@KasiaZosia04723]

Wow! Amazing…

[@Gandalf_the_quantum_G]

I heard this idea already in other words - but the way you explained it and the words you used made gave it way better plasticity. Thanks alot!

[@carmelaseverino681]

You explained this so well!

[@miss-winner]

This is spot on.

[@karenmininni4962]

I love the analogy of the small child that scrapes her knee and mom being too preoccupied with her own concerns than to attend to the hurting child. This is actually a scenario that plays over and over in various situations because the mother is narcissistic. Somehow the cycle of being blamed shamed and scapegoated becomes all this child could ever be realized as. In my instance with this, I knew there was a serious problem with family members and I did everything I could to try to figure out a way to survive it, which included anger, resentment, rebellion and then trying to love my way through it. Eventually, you come to a place of self preservation and protection where you must surrender and let go because its only unending abuse and harm.

[@mishkatzafreen3978]

Thank you.

[@survivorsoflies2448]

thank you so so much Jay 🌟❤️❤️❤️❤️

[@sharilundberg3115]

Thank you - feeling seen. amazing how you can put words to these feelings / the way these interactions actually work

[@izawaniek2568]

Thank you so much. I can relate to what you have said in so many ways. Your explanations have helped me a lot.

[@jeaninelombardo8907]

Wow, thank you for your amazing insight

[@fraemme9379]

Thank you so much for your videos, they are golden!!

[@lisaperez8276]

Also love the book cover, so brilliant

[@carospereman3537]

This vid resonates with me, actually all your videos do. In my awakening, the Shakespeare quote, "Something is not bad or good, only thought makes it so," opened up my world. It finally made sense. My negative thought-based narrative about myself was from my narc father and family upbringing. I try to live in the present moment every day, which has helped my suffering tremendously. No past, no future, we are who we are at this present moment. I do not believe every thought that comes into my head anymore, it is just a thought and we as humans are deeper than this. Thank you for you video.

[@theodorinaaleksandrova5007]

AMAZING THANK YOU

[@taralilarose1]

Thanx Jay.....this was really good.

[@geetallygee5089]

How in the world did you explain this most complex realization of an inner world so it is understandable❣️😶

[@sarahwaling1562]

So so so so good. This was deep and explained perfectly. It's so funny....recently, in the past couple of weeks, I have vowed to myself that I want to be in the here and now, enjoying what's going on in my life right now and this video is right on time. So I noticed but this really shed a lot of light on the the whys and on some more things related that I was unconscious to. Once again, Jay, just thank you so much, it is so good to see you back on here!!!

[@ErikLeed]

You are always so insightful. It means sooo, sooo much!!! Oodles of thanks!!

[@jreid-heal-narcissistic-abuse]

I appreciate that!

[@geotyr3868]

you are a legend

[@KeepQuestioning243]

Even though I meditate and it is helpful, I have such a hard time remaining in the present moment. In fact, in another video you (Jay) did about regrets, I would say that is one of my biggest regrets. That, now in my late 50s, I have lost so much time being in the present. Understanding that it is a result of this childhood abuse is very helpful in at least being compassionate with myself about it.

[@daniellfourie]

Excellent video!

[@blembelem]

Thank You very much

[@rinahgberg312]

For me,it is so helpful to have this described in this way. This is absolutely correct. I have been in this tought-based way of living a lot and it is a process for me to let go,so I commute a lot back and forth between your videos and Eckhart Tolle's videos and teachings. Bless you both.❤️

[@rinahgberg312]

You seem amazing. I am honored by your response and I feel a bit safer because of it.💜

[@lambchop6278]

...Wow. I love this. It is brilliant. I have wondered about how these sorts of shame labels stuck, and this explains it well. ... Moreover my guess is that this has implications that are pretty important...

[@riseabove8673]

Hi Jay. I’m a new subscriber to your channel. As a scapegoat daughter to my narcissistic mother, I have become aware I dissociate so much to the point that effects my daily life. I’ve searched your channel in hopes to find any videos you have regarding dissociation, but didn’t find any information on it. I would appreciate if you or anyone here could maybe point me to it. Thanks Jay! Really love your content.

[@michaelgarrow3239]

You can only be in the moment…

[@lisachapman6295]

Thank you so much for this excellent video. I have been listening to videos on narcissitic abuse for 5 years now to try and help myself with my own experiences. It is such a complex area and i appreciate your ability to take it to the next level and really get to the depth needed to understand. You are the first person i have encountered on these videos that can actually do this. I would just like to ask if you also cover more covert forms of narcissism in your course? For example the story you tell about the little girl falling down and hurting her knee for me my experience would be that my mother bought me some incredibly slippy shoes which i kept falling over in and hurting my knees to the point where I still have scars. Every time my mother would give me sympathy but then i would be expected to go out in the same shoes those being the only ones i had. There was no mention of the shoes being at fault. Every time i did it I was given a hug or a plaster and told that i had to be more careful and not be so clumsy. Then I was sent out in the shoes again! We were not poor the shoes could have been changed or at least have grips put onto the soles! This is one example of many. feel now that my mother enjoyed the experience I was about 7!