Going Over Catelyn III, A Game of Thrones

[@Longshanks1690]

Aside from George changing his mind on how to portray Robb’s readiness for rule, I think the biggest reason Cat goes from “Oh yeah, he’s ready” to “how could you be so young” is the fact that she didn’t anticipate a war. When Cat says Robb is ready here, she means within the context of a decade long peace, and a decade long summer to boot. Robb has never seen conflict, so managing the Stark lands and doling out justice are the most serious concerns she thinks he’ll have to deal with, which she anticipates he’s ready for while Ned is away. But then, in a very short space of time, Robb becomes the head of his family after his father is unjustly executed, his people anoint him King, his mission to rescue his father has now become a war for independence and he has to manage it all with limited contact with the family he set out to save. The chasm between what he was expected to do and the reality of the situation that’s been thrust on him is insurmountable. Most people would have buckled under the pressure and, comparatively speaking, it’s astonishing Robb makes so few mistakes given the amount of responsibility that just kept weighing upon him day after day after this point.

[@gokbay3057]

Yup, Cat considering him ready to rule in this chapter but not ready in the context of the war makes a lot of sense.

[@theletterm5425]

Exactly my thought. I'm not sure why Preston even sees this as a contradiction or a change in the story. Cat views Robb as ready to take on the responsibility of ruling Winterfell in his father's absence, a job that he has been prepared for his entire life. Becoming KitN and fighting a war against the current ruling House is another matter entirely! It is something that Robb was most certainly not prepared for, growing up in a time of peace and with essentially Ned's best friend ruling over the Seven Kingdoms. So of course this drastic change of circumstances affects whether Cat views Robb as being ready to deal with the matters at hand.

[@martinbruno764]

55:44 preston when shocking events change the priorities of the characters: the only answer to this is mental manipulation

[@vondas1480]

@@martinbruno764 fans when they try to apply realism to George’s writing: “ah yes just out of a 4day opium coma and major blood loss she’s definitely going to be this coherent and ready to go on a cross country journey”

[@zemiron]

It's baffling how little Preston understands how humans act, particularly in regards to stressful situations.

[@vondas1480]

@@zemiron it’s baffling how you can confuse fiction with reality and think appeals to reality is a substitute for evidence. Mental manipulation 100% exists in asoiaf, the theory “duh stress make people act different”? No proof of that, I can think of dozens of times characters were in stressful situations and still acted in ways consistent with their personality, the only time I can think where that doesn’t happen is Dany/Jon chapter where we know they were being manipulated

[@zemiron]

@@vondas1480 Is there any evidence that the humans in the world of Ice and Fire lack normal human emotions and emotional responses? I haven’t seen any. Given this, it seems reasonable to think that the humans in that world react in somewhat similar ways to how humans do in our world unless we have evidence to the contrary. We should apply Occam’s Razor. If this were the first time Preston had not understood a normal human reaction to a situation, there might be a point, but this is something he frequently does. Often times he doesn’t even have a supernatural reason for it, he just thinks Martin is weird for writing these reactions. Preston seems to not understand how human emotions work and how they contribute to human action. It is common for people to both act at odds with or consistent with their normal personality when put against stressful situations. Unless we have evidence of mental manipulation, we should default to it being a consequence of normal human reaction to stressful situations and not mental manipulation or being baffled by it.

[@vondas1480]

yes, they’re fantasy characters written by an inconsistent author, the idea that they have “normal human reactions” instead of the reaction george wants them to have to tell his story is downright unhinged. Read this sentence very slowly and as many times as needed till it sinks in: occam’s razor does not apply to fiction. Do you read Superman comics and think “this Clark Kent guy clearly has mental delusions”? Fictional characters aren’t people, and since you’ve yet to substantiate your “stress” theory it can be dismissed

[@variablemuffins]

Sleep deprivation could be a major cause of Catelyn's initial behavior. She's hardly slept since Bran's fall. It's not much of a stretch that she's thinking much more clearly after a good night's sleep... or 4 lol

[@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin]

Well, she doesn't really think clearly after waking up either. She decides she needs to travel for weeks to get to Ned because, for some reason, he wouldn't believe Rodrick by himself.

[@Jotari]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin Cut her some slack. She's had a lot of stress recently. She's eager to see her man so he can perform his husbandly duties and release some of that tension.

[@secondeye1574]

@@PrestonJacobstheSweetrobin The thing is, I would understand if your base feeling was "Well every character in George's writing acts rationally with easily trackable motivation, so the fact that Catelyn is acting weird here must mean something narratively", but you seem to think so, so, so many characters have moments where they must be mind-controlled or it makes no sense. While I agree there are hints of general mind-control as a device in the story... isn't it also just possibly that the irrationality is attributable to George's writing? There's dozens of these examples by now to consider it a pattern. It's not like mind control is a huge notable known aspect of the story, either, so the simplest explanation is that's just how the characters are.

[@Jenvick]

Very clever with the bell to make us look up and read your "i was stupid" text. You knew damn well we were all listening to this while doing something else, lol!

[@juhanisaario]

Summer gets the name only after Bran wake's up

[@mikemoritzgamer]

All video, I'm yelling this at Preston. I'm surprised he doesn't remember this - its a whole plot point in the early book

[@chooseurownground]

Exactly! He didn’t have a name yet!

[@emarti3853]

I remember an interview with GRRM, and he had a whole plan for Cat to go north to the heart of winter. But when he got to this chapter he was going to send someone else, but thought no one else but Cat could go. This chapter was the first big change to his original outline

[@martinbruno764]

I think it ended being a good desicion, cat's plot line in the riverlands seeing the war of her son through a mother's eyes is pretty good, bran and jon already have the north of the wall plot line covered. I also think lady stonehearth is a remanent of that unused plot line, had cat died north of the wall she would have come back as a spectre so I think zombie catelyn is something george had planned from the beggining

[@maxwell_j_R]

54:41 "I must go myself. I will take the ring to Mordor. Oops, I mean, the dagger to King's Landing."

[@gokbay3057]

51:45 I believe Theon was entirely honest about "Lord Stark is my second father" That said yeah, "My house owes yours a great debt" is quite the ridiculous statement. 53:19 The saying is "there must always be *a* Stark in Winterfell". Nowhere does it say that the lord can't leave (as we very much see the lord leave such as with Cregan, Rickard and Ned). But simply that a member of the house must stay (probably Benjen during Robert's Rebellion, and Bran apparently suffices during the War of the Five Kings).

[@elkeyes]

I always wondered with Valerian steel being so sharp how her hand didn't get cut in half when she grabbed the blade so tightly. Also I assume that Cat was out for 4 days because she hadn't been sleeping nor eating/drinking properly while watching Bran obsessively.

[@umwha]

It’s a plot hole. Valyrian steel can cut through other swords! It should go through her fingers easily. Unless the assassin held it sideways I guess

[@TheKrostiman]

Good catch that makes no fucking sense

[@sumexz6418]

A whole hour? My body’s ready

[@SapphireSolstice67]

The hour of the mole

[@PrinceofHarrenhal]

I have a personal theory on who sent the catspaw, one that gives a viable explanation for both the major supposed plotholes (why the assassin did not flee and why he was armed with The Dagger). I already posted it on reddit some time ago and people really disliked it, which is understandable because it revolves around the presence of an unreliable narrator: Tyrion Lannister, the Imp. If you don't buy into this I get it but please don't hate, I hope you will at least give it some thought and maybe have a good laugh. The core of the theory is that I think Tyrion Lannister will ultimately be revealed to be the man who sent the assassin to kill Bran. He did so in order to protect House Lannister from the scandal and acquire his father's approval. He used Robert's dagger in order to make Littlefinger tell Catelyn it was indeed the King who plotted against her son, as this would have resulted in Ned refusing the Handship as the Lannisters intended in the beginning of the series. Littlefinger immediately thwarted his plan and told Catelyn the name of the actual culprit. I think Tyrion is affected by antisocial personality disorder and constantly manipulates others (us readers included) into believing half-lies. Here are the main twenty pieces of evidence of Tyrion's guilt. 1) In his first POV chapter, Tyrion spent the night in the Winterfell library and on his way out warns Septon Chayle about the driest parchments - the likeliest to hatch fire. So we know for a fact Tyrion inspected the library and has the means to instruct the catspaw on how to hatch the fire. 2) At breakfast, Tyrion gets confirmation from Jaime that his siblings had something to do with the fall, thus he has a strong motive to orchestrate the assassination. 3) Although the catspaw had been paid in advance, he is committed to kill Bran nonetheless, even when stopped by Catelyn. The only explanation for that is that the ninety silver stags were only part of his payment, and there is only one character from the royal party who actually planned to come back to Winterfell in the near future: Tyrion Lannister. 4) The choice of a dagger belonging to Robert not only limit the suspects to the royal family but also implies the will to frame the King for the attempt. This further compromise the Lannisters, who wanted to create a grunge between Ned and Robert so that lord Stark would not be Hand. 5) Tyrion will later show to have all necessary knowledge about the dagger's history in order to conceive the plot: use Robert's dagger and have Catelyn go to King's Landing, where she will find her childhood friend Petyr Baelish, who lost the knife to Robert, and will hopefully accuse the king due to his affection for lady Stark. The plan of course backfires because Littlefinger smelled the plot leagues away. 6) Even though Tyrion knows the Dagger is Robert's he will never, ever, suspect the King, not even on the morning of the Purple Wedding. This is extremely odd since Robert will actually be considered a viable suspect by both Jaime and Ned. 7) When news of Bran's awakening arrive at Castle Black, Tyrion immediately consoles Jon for his loss, even though Luwin had told him the boy was out of danger (this insight by Luwin is confirmed by Robb independently). 8) When Tyrion acquires knowledge of Bran's awakening, he looks "startled". 9) When Tyrion arrives in Winterfell, he does not ask why Catelyn is absent, nor what happened to the library tower, and most importantly he is not surprised that Robb is threatening him pointing his sword at him. Moreover, Bran tells him "he did not fall" and Luwin shuts Bran up, saying the boy does not remember anything. If you sum all this up, you would expect Tyrion to be panicking, because it really seems the boy does remember indeed - instead he does not lose his cool, although everything seems to be shouting that the incest has just been exposed. 10) The direwolves attack Tyrion without any reason why. There are even taller strangers in the room, with swords in hand, but they decide to attack the unarmed dwarf nonetheless. 11) Tyrion is not surprised to find Catelyn traveling incognito on the Kingsroad nor he freaks out. Had he been innocent, this should be another confirmation that the incest has been exposed; instead, being guilty, he is happy to find Catelyn there because he thinks she already spoke to Littlefinger and everything is going accordingly to plans. 12) When he is captured, Tyrion is again unsurprised by knowledge he should not possess - he doesn't ask what happened to Bran, but immediately vouches for his innocence and swears on his honor it was not him. 13) During his trip with Catelyn, when threatened with his life he shouts: "Kill me and the truth dies with me!" which basically means confessing the crime. 14) During his speculations about a trial in the sky cells, he never relies on his de facto innocence, but only on the absence of evidence "as long as he can see". 15) Tyrion starts suspecting someone is using him as a catspaw only after he gets accused of Jon Arryn's murder as well - not before. He does not even suspects Petyr is the one using him, even though he already knows he was the one to accuse him! 16) Furthermore, Tyrion never asks for a regular trial, nor for the trial to be held in King's Landing, two things he could have easily obtained and would have likely resulted in his acquittal, but instead decides to roll the dices in a trial by combat. 17) Tyrion never moves against Littlefinger even though Tywin stated that looking for traitors among the small council was first order of business. 18) When Littlefinger confronts him with the Dagger, Tyrion recognizes it as a fine blade even though it was undrawn, just by the dragonbone hilt. This confirms to Littlefinger it was indeed Tyrion, because "dragonbone is plain" and even ser Rodrik had to look "long and hard" before recognizing the blade had some value. 19) When Littlefinger offers him the Dagger, Tyrion not only refuses what would have been evidence of Baelish's treachery, but also blurts out "Mine? Not mine. Never mine!" further incriminating himself, because no one in the room had suggested that blade had ever belonged to him. 20) After being confronted with the Dagger, Tyrion offers Littlefinger Harrenhal, the castle he will ultimately get at the end of the book, without Tyrion ever opposing him. He even thinks: "He knows, that insolent wrench. He knows and he knows that I know, and he thinks that I cannot touch him" which of course makes zero sense unless Tyrion is actually guilty. I will also add a piece of metatextual evidence: in the story that originates the word "catspaw" the cat is manipulated by a monkey and Tyrion is the only character in the series who is associated with monkeys (when Tywin tells him "Only mummers and monkeys require applause"). Hope you enjoyed!

[@gokbay3057]

That... Actually makes a lot of sense. Good show sir.

[@ludovicus-Wyndham]

Excellent analysis of Tyrion’s character, which makes the theory very plausible. Thanks.

[@Alknix]

All good points except this one: "Tyrion never asks for a regular trial, nor for the trial to be held in King's Landing, two things he could have easily obtained" The reason he asked for trial by combat is because he'd already known what kind of "regular trial" the insane Lysa would've given him: "My son will hear what you have to say, and then you will leave. Through one door or the other."

[@umwha]

It’s good but two things: - on the way to Joffrey wedding why does Tyrion have a long train of thought where he figures out that it must have been Joffrey to send the assassin? This was a private train of thought that he shouldn’t have if he already knew it was himself who sent the assassin 2. If Tyrion wished for bran to be killed, why would he turn up to Winterfell having designed a saddle that would help the disabled bran ride a horse?

[@umwha]

Although I’m not sure I agree, here’s another point in favour of this theory: Tyrion is partly based on Richard the Third, who as believed to have a deformed hunched back. Richard the third disappeared to young princes - the ‘princes in the tower’. Likewise Tyrion was originally going to burn Winterfell causing Bran and Rickons disappearance / apparent death. So Tyrion was originally destined to ‘kill’/ disappear bran and Rickon, so the idea that he has this initial failed assassination attempt would help to set up his later actions. I suppose you could say that when Martin wrote GoT maybe he did write it to be Tyrion and later changed it, and retconned it to have been Joffrey all along.

[@manband20]

I feel like out of any time in the entire series to do a dream sequence, it would be here. Give her a fever dream as she recovers from the cut on her hand that helps her piece together what happened so it seems infinitely more believable that she would wake up and decide that her place isn't by her son's side anymore after days of being inconsolable. Maybe split the chapter up into two shorter ones so she fights off the catspaw and goes into the coma in one chapter and then has the fever dream/makes her plans in the second one?

[@theletterm5425]

Yeah, with ASOIAF generally being filled with dream sequences and visions it feels really lacking that after going through *all that* and sleeping for *four days* we just pick up with Cat again like that without even a mention of any weird dreams. It's also the reason I rule out any mental manipulation as a cause for Cat's change in personality because of that we’re the case, surely George would have at least given us some sort of hint in the form of a dream or vision before she woke up.

[@Mj_Jetson]

"I would gladly butcher every horse in Winterfell with my own hands if it would open Bran's eyes" Probably some foreshadowing here of Dany trying to sacrifice Drogo's horse to heal him?

[@martinbruno764]

Dany also thinks something similar, that she would sacrifice every horse in the khalasar to bring drogo back

[@nogodsnomasters7669]

Dude after a 4 day "Milk-of-the-Poppy" bender your personality would go BONKERS

[@DoakFelix-qr8uw]

Preston, thank you for your time, thoughts, and efforts in making this video. To me, Catelyn may be the most relevant character in the story. She is educated. She is intelligent. She is observant. She is loving. She is intentional. And all of that is good and fine as long as things are normal. Once her emotions take over, she becomes bizarrely over reactionary. During peace, she gives Eddard, Robb, Renly and Stannis fine counsel. But when her emotions overwhelm her personal interests, she becomes a fool. As much as I criticize her….. I still find her compelling because she is a reflection of me. I see things, circumstances, and actions of other people clearly. I can foresee the obstructions and the results in their plans. Yet when it comes to my own life, I run around like a chicken with my head cut off. Keep up the good work. I look forward to the next installment.

[@MrSdasf]

This chapter is bonkers. You are right about the most loyal catspaw in the world of course, and also, if its a valirian steel dagger, it should have absolutely taken her fingers right off, these things are supposed to cut thru steel armour they are so sharp. And cat going off to kingslanding makes no sense.

[@ramiveiberman3182]

Preston, I must admit this is my most favorite series of yours. Keep it going

[@GabrielRodrigues-ro1ep]

We're back!!!!!!

[@1994mammo]

34:20 Watch as Preston temporarily turns into Arthur Fleck

[@richardtabor8686]

Nice. Appreciate the IRL story of GRRM's process. Ty for the content.

[@hughmoore2143]

I’m not so sure that Cat’s personality change is whack. She goes for days without food or sleep. So she’s sort of delirious. She wakes up after finally getting enough sleep and is a little more clear headed. Sounds ok. Some of the other stuff you complained about is still totally off, but her attitude shift feels ok to me.

[@joseSanchez-ej2oh]

The assassin was a wilding mance brought with him He's committed bc the job was given to him by mance himself and he also genuinely believes killing bran is a mercy, that it would be wrong to let him live He has that dagger bc mance would've wanted him to use a knife that was obviously the King's The wildings have certainly never seen a valyrian steel weapon with a black dragon bone hilt So he would've picked the one dagger that in his mind looked the most fancy and unique The silver was probably more of a way to secure his safety south of the wall

[@Longshanks1690]

11:20 I think he means Elaena Targaryen, the youngest daughter of Aegon III.

[@mitchellhouser1572]

@16:10 they are talking about Bran dying, not him waking up. Those are two different things. I would say that it absolutely is true that initially stabilizing him it would be the highest acute likelihood of him dying but assuming they put the work in, he has a pretty good chance for living a while. People can live on life support in real life indefinitely. Just saying, the likelihood and risk of him dying versus waking up are two very different things.

[@detlefzockt4964]

I understood the wolves as wolf 1 Summer outside the window who is not named since it was described in the previous chapter that he was howling. Wolf 3 is closer than wolf 2 who are summer and grey wind. Rob names them because its new they join in. Also, I always understood that Cat sleeps for 4 days from the exhaustion since she was watching over Bran for 8 days without sleeping

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

Nice, I'm thinking of rereading AGoT

[@rosstemby1347]

It’s just grief. We saw “competent” cat before bran fell and she snaps out of the fugue due to the assassination attempt.

[@baerververgaert1308]

15:18 They've had the secret letter from Lysa, right? With Bran's fall while the King's party is there at Winterfell, Cat might interpret the dire wolf killed by the horn of the stag as Robert killing Ned and her family by taking them South. In the sense that, as long as a Stark is close to a Baratheon they aren't safe. Before she might have feared that Ned not going south would cause a fight between Robert and Ned which ends in Ned's death. This could be a nod to ambiguity in "prophecy".

[@Likeitornot91]

Ayyy happy to see another one of these, been doing a fresh read after a couple years. Fall time is the best for AGOT - winter is coming :)

[@SHARKVADERS]

PJ IS BACK FOMOS

[@az4037]

What even is your pfp

[@FlorianMark]

​@@az4037 the three most important meals 😂

[@fleshbhones]

Hell yah brother

[@masonrockwood7732]

Lame

[@Jotari]

The only explanation for the Cat's Paw's dedication to his job is that Joffrey happened to luck out and find a Faceless Man who has really high job pride. That silver was everything he had in his personal savings.

[@JayneTheory]

39:05 It means what it says - "biding," staying somewhere.

[@GrimgoreIronhide]

I dont really understand what you find weird about Catelyns change of behavior here. In the first half she is caught in a despair spiral, in the second half she realizes this after being violently jolted out of it and resolves to take a very diffrent more proactive course of action. This is an extremely normal chain of behavior, and your suspicion of it is kind of baffling.

[@nikolaicrawford9042]

One wolf is in the yard(summer likely) I’d assume shaggy dog is in the gods wood(the distant one) and rob left grey wind right outside the door( near summer but closer to the window.

[@maxwell_j_R]

40:16 Mance "was hanging with the Others at the back" of the feast. And the catspaw is gaunt with pale eyes. Wow!

[@mrwumbo]

Not sure if it's been brought up yet but you were talking about how people in comas start to get brain damage after a certain amount of time and we know the Three-Eyed Raven or future Bran or whatever you want to call it can at least manipulate animals and Hodor through either warging or visions or both. So if it has to do with something with mental stability or capacity or something like the whole Jedi crap of "Mind tricks don't work on me. Only money" that would make someone that's mentally/emotionally drained or crazy or in a coma or super sick susceptible. I'm not a doctor so I have no clue about what sort of damage can be done in what amount of time and I don't think George does either since Bran was in a coma for like 2 months and google, if it can be believed, says after like a month you can become a vegetable and Bran is out for longer than that I think. So Cat sleeping for 4 days is basically just a medically induced coma on top of being sleep deprived for those 2 months and clearly going a bit insane with her freaking out about the dogs howling and people asking her normal questions. So if it seems like the Three-Eyed Raven (TER) only or mostly targets people with reduced mental states him targeting her in her 4 day coma would make sense for why she's all about staying at Winterfell and taking care of Bran and not caring about anything else flips a switch and says hey I'm done dealing with Bran, I'm going to Kings Landing I need to solve the riddle of this special dagger, here's this top secret message I'm telling you all, I'm not taking a group with me and I'm taking the white knife river and taking a ship from white harbor and I'll beat Ned there. You just woke up from a coma and have plans down to a T down to boat timing? I'm sure I'm missing people because I just finished watching the video, it's 8 AM, and am vomiting stuff out and doing no research but these are the people who come to mind other than animals like Ghost or Mormont's crow etc. Off the top of my head: Bran - In a coma then wakes up and has vision of TER. Hodor - "Is slow of wits" and is wargable. Jojen - Nearly dies of greywater fever then starts getting TER visions. Coldhands - I'm assuming a dead guy has some sort of reduced mental capacity and seems to be manipulated by TER. Other maybes: Jaime - Starved and mentally drained by being a captive for a long time, loses hand, passes out in bath house from exhaustion then maybe gets dreams from TER on weirwood stump? Patchface - Drowned and 'died' and now he's "slow of wit" and completely changed spewing out prophecies or whatever via TER? Ghost of High Heart - Throwing this in here because I still have no clue what they're all about but has prophecies and is like 100 years old and if anyone has talked to someone that's near 100 they're not all there so the prophecies she gives out could be a TER thing. House of the Undying - I doubt this is anything but it's a house full of... undying. Dead undead nearly dead whatever's going on they're giving out prophecies and visions left and right so Coldhandsish. Euron - He was drowned (died for a bit) as a child as a rite of passage and clearly mentally unstable and maybe counts as to why TER is able to give him visions. Sweetrobin - Super sick and feeble, is given poppy to pass out, has a weirwood throne, wants to see people fly, loves the winged knight because he can fly, says he hears voices of Marillion singing after he's dead (which he might not be but if he is) seems pretty TER to me. I'm not saying everyone that's crazy or slow of wit or sick or in a coma has been manipulated by TER but it seems like it's how he's allowed to manipulate people or at least make it easier for him? And if that's the case Cat would fall in that category. Are there people I missed that have or we think have been messed with by TER that wouldn't fit in that category? And I mean characters that are strongly suggested not like "Well Donal Noye probably got sick after losing his arm so TER probably sent him visions so he'd go to the wall to teach Jon a lesson". I'm talking about things like we KNOW Bran was in a coma THEN got visions of TER. We KNOW Jojen was super sick and bed ridden and almost died from a fever THEN got visions of TER.

[@MrPhbahia]

KEEP THESE COMING ❤

[@ashleydebartolo1219]

Those are some very loud birds around 33:20 I thought it was my dogs

[@willorwyrd]

Catspaw probably had his family being held hostage by Darth Petyrovich the Bold, perhaps in the brothel, or was promised an absurd amount more than his bag of silver and dagger, prompting him as a pleb to get wide eyes and decide to take the risk

[@ПетрБонюк]

I think it was Mance. When Mance talked to Jon, it felt like he was lying a little. It's hard to believe that Mance went alone. The journey to the Wall could take more than a week, and at night there are the Whites, the Night's Watch, and many others. Almost certainly there would have been rest stops. And it's hard to believe that he climbed the Wall himself. He was hardly such a good climber. He's only been among the wildlings for seven years. And why would he climb the Wall? He should have spent all that time gathering the wildlings and becoming king. No. Mance's journey should have been an organized operation. Someone like the Jarl, a professional climber, should have gone with him to the Wall. And the assassin with the dagger should have gone with Mance too. The assassin's plan is so stupid because Mance gave it to him. Because he did not want the assassination to succeed. This reminds me of how Mance didn't want Styr, Jarl, Jon and Ygritte's mission to succeed. The assassin with the dagger was simply a supporter of Mance, so he was willing to sit in the stable for a week. And the silver didn't matter to him. Most likely Mance left it so that the assassin could buy a horse on the way back. And the silver also proved that someone hired the assassin.

[@Paradoxymoronic]

YES! The idea of Catelyn still having fingers is, frankly, ridiculous. Look up photos of tennis player Petra Kvitova's hands after her home invasion. She almost lost her fingers completely. If Valyrian Steel is supposed to be so sharp, Catelyn should have lost her fingers

[@HickoryBill]

I think the manipulation is keeping catelyn there in the first place up until her four day sleep. Then it’s like a spell is broken and she goes to the active cat we know for the rest of the story. Also the cat by brans bedside seems to have much more in common with the lady stoneheart she would become. She simply shouldn’t be reacting to the direwolf howling as she does without something teke adjacent going on.

[@nsnick199]

Obviously the dagger comes from Bloodraven, who set the attack up to get the ball rolling on Summer's bond with Bran. Littlefinger lied completely just to sow chaos.

[@Alknix]

Something that just came to me all of a sudden: regardless of who hired the catspaw, what the hell was Littlefinger thinking when he pinned the dagger of Tyrion? He obviously couldn't have foretold that Catelyn would chance meet him on her way north. They could've missed each other completely, for example if Catelyn had decided to go visit her father, or they could've met on the road where Cat wouldn't have been able to seize him etc. What was far more likely is that Tyrion would've arrived safely to King's Landing... where he would've, of course, been confronted by Ned. Except there, with people to protect him, he could've defended himself and insisted on a proper investigation, starting with the questioning of the only "witness" to his guilt. And then Baelish would've been screwed. Soooo, what was the plan, exactly?

[@umwha]

Ye

[@Longshanks1690]

In that case, LF would tell them what he knew - he had the dagger, he lost it to Tyrion, then it ended up in the hands of a would be assassin in Winterfell. There’s nothing that actually implicates LF in this scenario since he is just telling them what he knows, and no one can actually prove he isn’t giving all the information he has. Regardless, it accomplishes what he wanted it to do, which was drive a wedge between the Starks and the Lannisters to provoke conflict, and hopefully war. No, the problems will come when he can’t prove he ever lost the dagger. Tyrion was outraged at the idea that he would ever bet against Jaime, and would have a long standing history of never betting against him - if he’s every lucky, there’s physical documentation which shows he always bets on Jaime, and doubtless many witnesses who would corroborate his claim. So LF would be screwed when he can’t prove that he ever lost the dagger to Tyrion, and now he has to deal with the fact that he accused Tyrion of betting on Loras, which everyone in KL knows Tyrion would never do and only people who don’t know him like Ned and Cat think he would. Cos now he has to explain how not only, unquestionably, his dagger ended up in the assassin’s hands but why he tried to pin it on Tyrion for no justifiable reason. Cos even if LF had never seen the dagger before and just claimed he used to own it, now he’s the most likely culprit and he has no one to blame but himself. Yeah, I really don’t see how even he could talk himself out of this one. 😂

[@Alknix]

@@Longshanks1690 Well, yes, that's what I meant. LF's story was very easy to disprove - both Jaime and Robert would've testified that LF had lost the dagger to Robert, not Tyrion.

[@bilis2866]

It makes me think LF is almost suicidal in a way, challenging Brandon Stark? it's like he gets a rush from control and risk, maybe someone else can explain it better than me

[@nikolaicrawford9042]

I think LF just wanted to plant seeds of deceit, even if Tyrion was exonerated Ned would have his guard up. I also think that it would have brought up more questions of who threw bran out of the window as at that point it would be brought into open court and likely Cersei and Jaime would have been under intense scrutiny. I think little finger at that point knew that he would have better standing in court with no Lannisters and Robert/Ned at the helm. All that changes with Robert’s death so he commits to betray Ned. He wants chaos to climb the ladder and he knows that he can manipulate Ned as hand better with no other players at court

[@umwha]

I think it's overall most satisfying solution is that it must link back to Time-Traveling Bran's master plan. Either it was a failed attempt to suicide himself away from his ultimate time-loop destiny - or it was all because Bran knew that the Valyrian-steel/dragon-bone dagger needed Catelyn Nissa-Nissa blood on the blade for some magic purpose. In the GoT show, that blade was used to kill the Night King. The show simplified it to the properties of valyrian steel - but maybe its all about Cats blood. A woman's blood on a penetrating daggar - its sex-blood on the penis symbolism. The key element being the female element, rather than the phallic element, is very Martin - e.g. 'the woman is important too', and the dragon-X gene is matrilineal.

[@ahspire3178]

ive been waiting for this

[@wumbojet]

I don't know if I greatly misunderstood the omen of the stag and the direwolf, but i thought Cat told Ned to go south but beware of the omens, to which ned, who was not superstitious, didn't pay much mind. Bran falling confirmed Cat's suspicions to her so she pleaded Ned to stay. I don't think there's a leap of logic or a switching of opinions or anything, I don't know what Preston meant.

[@_addison4772]

50:05 some of the best Free Soloist in the world have fallen to their death

[@dylanperrone6769]

King Robert hired the Catspaw!

[@vondas1480]

The catspaw is Bran 🗣🗣🔥

[@FlorianMark]

We are meeming with this one 🗣🗣🗣🔥🔥🔥

[@countbalerionofhousetatter2624]

just go with the flow, man, go with the flow. also, TTB sent the catspaw so arya could have the dagger b/c daggers and prophecies. it is a fun chapter, though. although the destruction of the library is a tragedy. leave libraries alone!

[@umwha]

We need a bit more ‘big picture symbolism’ analysis. For instance in this scene we have: Magic child (of the forest) weirseer, high in a tower, being defended by a magic ted headed woman called Cat (a child of the forest woman), from a foreign invader who is like a corpse (Other or undead invading the weirnet to kill a core green-child), who weild a Valyrian daggers who has 'blond hair and pale eyes' (so it’s a Valyrian / fire-person undead invading the weirnet). Also, he was sent (probably) by joffrey - a blond, fire coded, valyrian-like evil king. This must be telling us about the deepest lore. Azor ahais invasion of the weirnet as he attempts to kill child of the forest Nissa Nissa, who seems to be defending a messianic child. She is defended by a wolf (animal spirit, and underworld reference) and is then tended to by the 'grey rat' Luwin - so shes surrounded by animal spirits. Afterwards, she is also ministered by the crone, Old Nan who puts her into a 'scalding bath' - the stabbed/dead Nissa Nissa sinking or melting into water, a pool, or a bath is a repeated symbol - like Moon-woman Dany sinking into her hot bath in Dany1. Entering a lake of fire is another underworld/styx/hell symbol. After her bath she is then asleep for 4 days - her own 'Long Night'. Oh! And the assassin is a ‘catspaw’ another reference to cat people and he burned the library to get to Catelyn and Bran. The burning of the library tower is Azor burning the weirwoods as part of his entry plan, and the library tower contains ancient knowledge like a weirwood. It’s all about the deeplore! An undead Azor Ahai penetrated a red-headed Catwoman with a dragon-steel blade. It’s reenacting Nissa Nissa!!

[@FlorianMark]

First Summer is not in the room.

[@gokbay3057]

And is at the moment unnamed. (Which to his credit, Preston does note all of this with red text in the corner)

[@CosmicCorviknight]

Luwin handing Robb a paper just made me wonder: do they have widespread use of paper in Westeros? I think parchment and vellum are mentioned more frequently, but maybe there's a few paper mills scattered across the continent?

[@Longshanks1690]

I honestly think that’s a misspeak on George’s part and he meant to say parchment, or maybe early on he considered having paper be a synonymous word for parchment in universe. There’s zero other indication paper exists in Westeros and even less indication there was anything special about what he handed to Robb, so I would assume it was just meant to be a parchment misidentified by the author.

[@CosmicCorviknight]

@@Longshanks1690 Makes sense. I guess he's using "paper" meaning "document" in this case rather than literal paper.

[@simmingsammi]

I think Theon would’ve stick with Robb if he never reunited with his dad. The direwolves never dislike him.

[@Lexxir]

U weren’t sppssed 2 b hereeeee

[@possessedchair8144]

Catelyn was so unreasonable here to Lewin

[@jeffyoung6616]

Hodor been acting queer? What does that mean for Hodor? Bran reaching out in his coma?

[@smitty1647]

speaking of luwin's incompetence, doesn't bran have twisted legs? why can't luwin set broken bones?

[@faisalkamal4319]

Damn catelyn has mood swings

[@umwha]

Catelyn immediately thinks Bran was targeted because of what he knows. But I don't think that would be her first thought. She is already scared of the Wolf/ Stag prophecy, and heard that someone killed Jon Aryyn. She surely would think there is a force at work that is targeting her side, and her family specifically. She would think, perhaps, that this enemy force targeted Bran first because he is weakest, and it was simply meant to cause terror in the Starks, and that the others of her family would be next.

[@durianthesleepy]

If you want to read into the symbolism even more the fact that the dire wolf had a stag antler "caught in its throat" could be metaphor for Bran, a dire wolf, dying unable to speak. That observation aside, I can't cosign this small fish notion. It seems to me Cat would have to personally value her emotional state to an extreme to conclude "they wanted to kill Bran to terrorize us". She'd also need to be as paranoid as Lysa if she concluded "this means there will be more assassinations attempted on more of us". If Cat believed Lysa, then she believes Jon Aryn was murdered expertly. She convinced Ned to go investigate it. But Jon was also the most powerful member of her extended family: Hand of the King with his own entourage of knights, and personally loved by King Robert. Not to peasantshame but the Catspaw is not an expert killer.

[@umwha]

@@durianthesleepy Why is this a ‘small fish’ notion? It dosent really make sense for cat to conclude that bran was targeted because of knowledge he had. In real life, when a mother has her 7 year old targeted for violence by a hired criminal, she does not think it’s to do with knowledge the child has. She would feel she’s the target of terror, or coercion. In Westeros , taking child hostages / using children as pawns in games of intimidation and coercion of the parents is Normal. 7 year old knowing something really important is not normal. I completely disagree that a mother - when she persoanlly witnesses an assasination attempt on her 7 year old- had to be ‘paranoid’ to suspect there are more assassins coming. If someone rich wanted one of the starks dead then why wouldn’t such a person kee trying? The starks have lots of enemies - the Boltons , the greyjoys, even remaining Targaryen loyalists . The idea that some of these forces want revenge on the starks, and waited until only Catelyn held the castle, is totally logical. Remember, the Starks did basically coercively kidnap Theon when he was 10. Perhaps Catelyn should have suspected Theon’s mother sent the assassin, so that she could know what it’s like to have your favorite son taken away. Or a targ loyalist sending the assassin, as revenge in the starks for the part they played in the rebellion and the murder of the Targaryen children. Catelyn thinking Bran knew a secret is just plot-convenience telepathy.

[@durianthesleepy]

@@umwha It's a "small fish notion" because 1. Sigils are fun 2. By your own stated theory Bran was the easiest possible target in the family. But you, yourself, are giving great arguments against the "first in a chain of Stark murders" theory. If one thinks there'd be multiple assassinations against anyone but Bran: then whoever is behind it wasted the attempt with the best chance to succeed on a target that is likely to die, and most likely to forever be the most vulnerable. Winterfell had lost most of its leadership, a good number of fighting men and servants rode south and the stewardship was disorganized. Whether or not Bran did die in this attempt: the Starks would be on high alert, so it would be sinificantly harder to kill Rickon, Rob, Cat, or whoever else. I'm not sure what to make of your buckshot attempt at coming up with another suspect. Catelyn started out with a suspect: Cersei. She was warned by Lysa, in a secret message, in a secret language, that Cersei killed Jon Arryn a week or so before the attempted assassination. The Queen had only just left, and Cat already started looking for confirmation from Mollen's report that the assassin came in at the same time as the procession.

[@umwha]

@@durianthesleepy What you are missing is this: I don’t have a problem with Catelyn suspecting Cersei. I have a problem with catelyns telepathic assumption that bran was targeted because of something he knew. Jon Arryn was recently murdered , and now bran is attempted to be murdered. Logically, Catelyn should put the two together and see who links those two people: Ned. Ned’s adopted father was murdered and now Neds son is targeted. Clearly, the implication is that someone (Cersei according to Lysa) is picking off people dear to Ned. Cat should be mindful that Cersei is a Baratheon , matching the direwolf/stag incident, and that Tywin has turned on his Ally’s before: the Targaryens, so he can turn on the starks, likely to consolidate power in the Lannister Baratheon alliance. Also, remember the starks and aryns committed treason and led a rebellion less than 15 years ago- there are of course many enemies with grievances. These are much more relevant contexts than the intuition that bran persoanlly knew a forbidden fact. Finally, you’ve said that bran wouldn’t be a target because he’s weakest and it would make more sense for An an enemy to strike the strong targets first. But in this story sometimes targets are picked off overtime- like how Varys was always an enemy of Robert, yet killed Kevan , rather than Cersei, Tywin, Jaime or Tommen. Littlefinger dosent strike the large targets first, either. So ‘picking off’ and playing the slow game does happen.

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

39:03* I think it's a short for "biding his time" kind of biding, not hiding. Though hiding might make more sense I suppose.

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

No, it seems to be a most relevant word actually. biding noun Residence; habitation. Similar: residence habitation verb Present participle of bide.

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

bide /bīd/ intransitive verb To remain in a condition or state. To wait; tarry. To stay. "bide at home."

[@CheeseCrumbs00]

53:20 interesting how these Stark sayings are kind of useless, whereas the Lannister ones have some utility.

[@pulloutchamp3219]

Pj in the house!

[@TheWarChief929]

Wait a sec... are we going to find out later that valerian steel and dragon bone daggers can absorbs souls or something and it's the only thing that can kill entities like Time Traveling Bran... Maybe it was a Bran was possessing the cats paw, one that was tired of the perpetual fight and being trapped in the weirwood net.

[@umwha]

Yes , I think it’s possible that Bran directed the assassin. Bran, I believe, does not know that he was attempted to be assasinated ? So he wouldn’t know that he aready survived the assasination in this timeline. However, bran looking back in time wouldn’t send an assassin in the room where Catelyn was, would he? Maybe it was actually a plan to obtain magic blood on the blade- maybe the blade needs Catelyn or brans blood for a future event ?

[@ricnosky]

Supp Preston!!..

[@michelechadwick3808]

❤

[@wraith0088]

It's insane how well grrm writes women characters, they feel so human

[@umwha]

Yeah crying on the floor to her 14 year old son, who is completely calm and rational, is very balanced and not at all stereotypical

[@chriscross5112]

'Why does everyone hate catelyn?' 😅

[@jdqfromnbfu4604]

preston she slept for 4 days because she was exhausted from not sleeping enough for weeks...

[@phantomjoker5]

imagine if people just followed ned's orders

[@IntermissionForBunny]

To be fair, Cat probably smelled like shit after staying in Bran's room for weeks on end. Probably had a stinky butthole and greasy skin, that's why they took the opportunity to bathe her before dressing her wounds

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

Kinda weird, a wolf's licking shouldn't mend a deep wound.

[@tornadomuchacho]

God, I miss her POV in the later books

[@66something_77]

Maybe he really wanted to kill the kid

[@emmaswift3764]

It think Catalyn just has adhd and gets impulsive.

[@MrPhbahia]

laughed aloud

[@ingainloggningsnamn]

18:25 :D

[@jeffyoung6616]

YOOoooooo

[@Don11037]

There is a character named greyrat in dark souls 3 and George r Martin did make eldin ring so maybe catylin was referencing that

[@ПетрБонюк]

I think, if you don't look at it after the fact, Robb's actions aren't that stupid. Why did he let Theon go? Yes, he's a valuable hostage, but it's as if he didn't mean anything to Balon. He was going to attack anyway. But attacking the north is stupid and very hard to predict. What will you choose? Try to take over the poor north in the fall after a long summer, when these lands probably won't bring in any income? Or you and the Starks will try to take over one of the richest cities. And keep in mind that the Lannisters had more time to mobilize. And also that you can't hold on to Winterfell that you've already captured. This is so stupid that I'm 100% sure that this is Bloodraven's plan. The children of the forest need to send Bran north, and to do that, the Ironborn need to go against the Stark. Which is kind of a parallel with the stupid attack on Storm's End because of Stannis's prophecy. Breaking the Frey's agreement is also probably stupid. But Robb had an alternative in the form of Edmure Tully. In my opinion, Edmure is a better option for Frey. Through the Ket, we were shown that the southerners are having a hard time in the north. And the Starks are followers of the old gods, which means that the Frey daughters will be uncomfortable in the north and that Robb's children will not be knights. And the Tullys are supposedly richer than the Starks. Besides, you first need to establish relations with your liege lord, you don't really care about relations with the Stark. Yes, Robb is supposedly a king, but the same Freys after Stannis's defeat supposedly wanted peace, so it's unlikely that this is so important to them.

[@TheKrostiman]

Early in the books Cat’s own personal decisions and opinions get proven to be wrong/disastrous. Which completely alienates her from her son and destroys her a lot of her credibility with Rob, when she’s proven right on a lot of things later on. Teenagers famously take advice well from parents that were hysterical and proven wrong multiple times.

[@Aaronhoulston]

I'm sorry I hate this boring going over chapters crap. GIVE ME SOME THEORY VIDEOS! Michaeltalksaboutstuff is shitting all over this channel lately YOU USED TO BE THE MAN PRESTON! 😢

[@iRob-tr2oj]

The throat clears every 5 seconds… get this man some water

[@frank_6298]

“Its a mercy, he’s dead already” If Time Traveling Bran is true, Bran actually is dead already

[@frank_6298]

Whoops should have kept watching

[@Azor19]

❤