Gracie academy VS Fadda academy: are they from the same lineage?!?!

[@cabalofdemons]

The history of jiu-jitsu is far more fascinating than the narrative the Gracie Family has peddled for the past 30+ years. Drysdale said it best that with regarding Franca's teachers and Fadda's lineage, it really doesn't matter as Fadda's story is far more compassionate. He taught jiu-jitsu to hundreds of underprivileged children, which is far more relevant than whether his teacher, Franca, has a lineage separate from the Gracies.

[@davidgrove6210]

The Gracies put their name all over Kano JuJitsu/Judo only after Mitsuyo Maeda passed away. It's a snake move. Kano sent his students around the world to prove his art. Maeda ended up in Brazil and taught everyone. As soon as Maeda passed away, the Gracies started charging an arm and a leg. They renamed it to Gracie Jiu Jitsu. The Brazilians were outraged because they knew the true roots. Eventually, it was renamed to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Early UFC years showed zero differences from JuJitsu and BJJ. The art evolved due to the UFC. New moves (rubber guard) and incorporated moves from other arts (wrestling, pancreas, etc). Sakuraba alone destroyed the Gracies

[@JEFFMAN90]

@@davidgrove6210Kano did not invent Jujitsu he just took techniques from it and then called it Judo. He basically did the same shit that the Gracie’s did

[@Lamo2100]

I give credit to Gracie family for expanding the art out of Brazil although a shady family. On the contrary, the work that Oswaldo Fadda was doing in Brazil with poor students and polio victims is very honorable and severely under-appreciated. Fadda school whipped the Gracies school twice!

[@RIGHTEOUS01]

I have heard Kron Gracie say Helio Gracie, invented the mount in Ju-Jitsu, with all respect to Helio but the Gracie's say some wild stuff

[@scarred10]

Id say he said the guard not mount,the guard was helios preference but ridiculous anyway.

[@m5a1stuart83]

@@scarred10 Guard does exist in Judo anyway. Old School Judo also have leg locks.

[@scarred10]

@@m5a1stuart83 in fact the judo grappling at the time was more advanced than the gracies by far since they only learned basics from maeda.

[@m5a1stuart83]

@@scarred10 Yes, Rufino dos santos does take on Carlos. And he got beat up afterward

[@rangelo8908]

The Gracies are ridiculous. Kron is out of his mind

[@joaoclaudiofontes5438]

The fact is that Luis França was a marine , and he trained under japonese teachers, Geo Mori , Takeo Yano and others . And also with the Gracies .

[@Nlaw18]

That’s not true, he never was a Gracie student. He already knew more then even the Gracie themselves. He competed for them. But he was never their student. (Go to fadda website, they put it as I just said), even Wikipedia says Carlos learned from Luiz França xD Also, someone already proved that Maeda never thought the Gracies as they never were at the same place at the same time to do so. You can find it on KZbin as I did. with newspaper dating that they were never in the same place at the same time. A lot of bs lies from The Gracies. Also it’s proven that they learned from from Donato Pires dos Reis who learned from Maeda and even stated that the Gracies were never Maeda students.

[@rangelo8908]

Fadda helped the poor. He helped children become strong and good people. Helio would do the same for the right price.

[@tekal85]

Made my day

[@davidgrove6210]

Early UFC years shows no difference between BJJ and Kano's version of JuJitsu/Judo. The Gracies just put their name all over it as Maeda passed away. The UFC was the reason BJJ evolved. Many new moves and moves from other arts were incorporated.

[@marciotanuz7142]

Academia Fadda fica no bairro de Bento Ribeiro ,próximo da minha casa ,muitos amigos treinaram e ainda treinam ,meu filho treina com um discípulo dele

[@JIUJITSUMAN22]

Sim, existe a equipe Deo jiu-jitsu oriunda do professor Deoclécio Paulo que veio da academia Fadda.

[@mikeverdugo1039]

Thank You for helping educate the true followers of Judo and Jujitsu his base is true Judo same as GFTeam

[@dakotaroosa202]

The Gracie’s learned from a few books floating around at that time as well. Helio is also said to have learned some judo from Chugo Sato , where he learned his so called self defense curriculum, also borrowed from judo and relabeled.

[@chrischiang1512]

Fadda's lineage is a more cleaner one without scandal. So much has been done by Jigoro Kano to introduce the Do evolution because Jutsu is associated with thugs, violence and created a bad name for Jujutsu community that most japanese try to stay away from, hence Do overtakes Jutsu that promoted martial arts as education system rather than just technical excellence that Jutsu focus.

[@abrahemsamander3967]

That black and white Gracie footage reminds me of the Charles atlas ads. Big man taking a skinny man’s woman at the beach.

[@Projectdarksource]

I noticed that the bjj self-defense training looks very compliant almost like Aikido, and classical Jujutsu.

[@RekonizeOfficial]

It actually is old school judo / Japanese jujutsu. They just took the moves and Sell it as Gracie . If you have not watched Chadi has numerous videos on judo grappling technics going back pre WW2

[@kerpal321]

@@RekonizeOfficial yes it is the same classical jiu jitsu techniques that were taught as ww2 combatives and to the shanghai police by william fairbairn

[@Projectdarksource]

@@RekonizeOfficial I already have, I'm just bring this up as bjj guys always crap on Tradational Jujutsu while prasing everything old man Gracie does.

[@joehiggs4349]

People should thank the Gracies for crafting a marketable story, marketing Jiu-Jitsu like maniacs, and devoting their lives to it. It’s the sole reason we have this beautiful thing we all enjoy instead of a few dying Japanese Jujutsu belt mills.

[@flowrepins6663]

Maybe shooto , pride would become popular regardless of gracies and ufc. They did good stuff but they did a lot of bad stuff too.

[@joehiggs4349]

@@flowrepins6663 I don’t disagree about the good and bad. I just say that it’s hard to find any new thing that was built big from scratch that doesn’t have a trail of betrayals, lies, half truths, and obsession behind it. It’s the nature of getting and keeping public attention. The public doesn’t tolerate nuance in the start up phase. You need something simple, clear, and powerful. The Gracies marketed what they had like crazy and without it we wouldn’t have what we have. Now is the appropriate time to work out the details since jiu jitsu’s place is secure.

[@Lamo2100]

I agree! But the legend of Oswaldo Fadda should be more prominent. The Real People Champ🫡

[@legbreaker]

França was the real BJJ, he taught the poor, lower and working class Brazilians in the outskirts. Not only the rich in Rio like the Gracies. Aa far as I've read, He was from the lineage, Maeda/Sataki/Tomori. And yes he also trained with Gracie, since Gracie especially from the lineage Maeda. That's why Gracie named their style Gracie jiu jitsu rather than BJJ. But Franca was the other non Gracie lineage straight from the root.

[@Nlaw18]

Someone already proved that the Gracie’s never even met maeda. And many other things.

[@Noone-rt6pw]

Yes, those that use technique over brute strength are totally impressive, where they're aware of feeling everything and positioning their weight accordingly. Which guys have a hard time learning such especially with a fixation on winning rather than learning. Something mentioned about old time jiu jitsu guys were the development of their legs. I mention this in contrast to Westerners being top heavy of developed chests.

[@onerider808]

I had to watch this once to concentrate on the video, and again to concentrate on your words. Once again, bravo!

[@78chavez]

I thought it was named Gracie Jiujitsu out of respect to Maeda. Since they taught it differently they didn’t want to disrespect it by calling it judo or jujutsu because people would say that this isn’t real judo. Excellent video!

[@ETHEREUM_COIN_]

Maeda did challenge matches where he defeated guys stronger and bigger then him. Yet the Gracie's claim maeda taught an art that was based on brute strength.

[@flowrepins6663]

Jigoro kano was very small and weak

[@zenshinacademy4096]

Just watched a video called Fadda jiu jitsu the other side of Brazilian jiujitsu history. Some really great information. Showing how, from news articles, reports, etc that Gracie family "legend" isn't all it says. Now I can only listen to their information I don't have access to all the, so called, evidence. But I know how the Gracie family likes to boost themselves and diminish others. If their info is correct Gracie, once again, has made attempts, and quite well, to hide the pre Gracie Jiu jitsu in Brazil.

[@ricardo82shadow123]

The great fraud was Helio saying that he was taught by Maeda but actually by his elder brother Carlos... And Carlos as well but he was taught by Jacinto Ferro and Donato Pires dos Reis and after by George (Geo) Omori... Ono bros as well had such a import role

[@senseihitmanwayofkempo8305]

Those self defense moves r classic very similar 2 the Hawaii jujitsu method self defense.... I like how the video made it clear the lineage n respect 4 those b4 4 example the video the shirts o the dude gets girl back super cool u can't put n ad out like that these days

[@dianecenteno5275]

Danzen Ryu👍💮

[@eduardodeandradepereira3997]

brazilian catch-as-catch-can is the elephant in the room when it comes to this bjj discussion

[@eduardodeandradepereira3997]

@Damien Rhodes originally called catch-as-catch-can, nowadays called luta livre, since 1980 I guess

[@shadowfighter6445]

This was an interesting topic, thank you for sharing 😊.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for watching

[@SI-ln6tc]

@@Chadi I hope you can do a video on Brazilian army combatives. I wonder how much of is is base on bjj?? And how would they deal with someone with a knife if both ended on the ground?

[@dianecenteno5275]

Great information as always! Thank you!

[@RecoveringGenius]

Honestly, as a Japanese JuJitsu Black Belt since 1995 from an Instructor who learned in Japan... Those Gracie self defense moves demonstrated in this video look to be about a Blue Belt level in comparison. But, because I believe in the truth... Their sport grappling techniques are terrific. Nice and tight and they would make me look like a Blue Belt to them... Cheers mates!

[@judovideoz5410]

Great work bro, as always 🙌🏻👏🏻

[@QuantumMechanic_88]

It would be interesting if there were somehow a way to measure to what degree the original Jiu Jitsu has morphed and changed over the years . Thank you once again Mr. Chadi .

[@Chadi]

That's possible

[@QuantumMechanic_88]

@@Chadi I my opinion , you are the only historian which could do it .

[@Chadi]

@@QuantumMechanic_88 Pedro Valente is easily capable of doing that too, my talk with him really made understand what happened.

[@TheReverb1]

In my opinion; the differences are simple: now all is an sport so no more "killing" techniques. What I did not understood is all that hype with the Brazilian judo jitsu; before the Gracie brought the style to USA, nobody cared about Judo or Jiu jitsu styles. Demonstrates that no matter what (this virus anyone?) you put the right marketing and most follow the path. Then; you have the "street fighter attitude" Gracie s have and kind of a different attitude Machado s had and they came from the same place and almost same dojo.

[@Polentaccio]

To me, because of the sporting aspects and the experience and qualities of the athletes, it has really morphed into an insanely technical art with complicated techniques and principles which don't necessarily apply to the original intent of defense on the street. Although seen as primitive, I still prefer the old style as the focus seems to be the basics. Yeah some guy who is 25 and an athlete might destroy a guy from 20 years ago but what matters is that you can use it on an average person (strong or not) when you need to...and more importantly, get back to your feet as soon as possible.

[@coffeedollsvp]

My lineage traces down to Fadda...trip out

[@tjl4688]

Yes, they're the same lineage, if you start from Maeda. But sure, they diverge after that.

[@ricardo82shadow123]

Luiz França was taught in the Brazilian Navy by Takeo Yano Soichiro Satake and Mitsuo Maeda years before he got trained and prepared along Carlos and Helio Gracie to fight against luta livre guys... And after with George (Jyoji) Omori... Think with me... If you are a black belt from a master and got prepared and trained by others that doesn't change your foundations and lineage right!?😂😊

[@TheReverb1]

over brute strength? I only see "squared" and big fellas in Judo and almost all the styles of jiu jitsu

[@Chadi]

Gracie were selling self defense for the weak against the stronger

[@Noone-rt6pw]

But think, you learn to feel instead of muscle, you will Excell them, but you'd have to develop awareness of weight.

[@stefanobonfanti4841]

You know,the bigger you are the gentler your jj is

[@guanglaikangyi3795]

Its a good body type for judo at least, short stocky, and strength is important and theres a lot of strong people in both of those sports but honestly not everyone is as strong as you might think

[@m5a1stuart83]

In old times not likely. Mifune is small person yet he can fight bigger n stronger opponents.

[@davidwoodward700]

Excellent

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@eltonsilva9576]

Luiz França was born in 1910, how could he have trained with Satake? Intrauterine training? Fadda NEVER won the Gracie Academy. This is a MYTH created by the Faddas, easily refuted by newspapers of the time. This image of Luiz França was published in my book, “Long Before MMA - The legacy of Vale Tudo forerunners in Brazil and around the World”. França actually trained with Geo Omori, but in Rio de Janeiro and not in São Paulo. He also trained with Takeo Yano. In 1937, when Omori and Yano travel to Minas Gerais, France he goes to train with the Gracie, where he was awarded a black belt by Hélio Gracie. In 1944, he moved to Natal, where he opened a gym and continued teaching JiuJitsu until the 1950s.

[@utubepunk]

Is there a comprehensive book that covers the history of BJJ in an objective & unbiased way?

[@Eduardo-tq5sk]

Oshiro Manda start al teaching at Oswaldo Fada,in the NAVY ,what do you know?

[@LupusRexRgis]

What I find interesting about França’s story is that Luiz França himself didn’t go around claiming that he learned from those Japanese masters. In fact, when he moved to the northeast of Brazil and opened an academy there, according to the historian Elton Silva, he presented himself as a student of Hélio Gracie. It appears that Oswaldo Fadda was the one making those claims to distance himself from the Gracie lineage, possibly for marketing purposes.

[@Chadi]

Thank you for this

[@chrischiang1512]

Luiz Franca is much older than Helio no? And Franca started learning under the Japanese judoka Satake in 1916, Helio was born in 1913. By experience Luiz Franca would be the master. If he call Helio as Master , how many years of experience Helio take to be a master to someone who had train longer than Helio did. The timeline doesn't seem to match up

[@LupusRexRgis]

@@chrischiang1512 Not much, he was born in 1910. After the Japanese masters left, he joined the Gracie Academy to continue with his trainings, and he even started representing the Gracies in competitions. Although he might have started training earlier, he clearly never accomplished what the Gracies did.

[@chrischiang1512]

@@LupusRexRgis Robert Drysdale said that Helio taught Franca, that is debatable, if Carlos Gracie taught Franca maybe the timeline matches but then i take it with a pinch of salt. What did the Gracie's achieved? Carlos Gracie is disgraceful for challenging Geo Omori the man who taught him. Nothing to achieve for beating up your own master and call Judo as Gracie Jiu-jitsu in my opinion.

[@LupusRexRgis]

@@chrischiang1512 Easy, fella! Carlos and Omori wereacquainted and their matches were a publicity stunt... As for França training under Hélio, he joined the Gracie Academy in 1938. Hélio was already teaching and fighting by then. In this same year França was already competing under the Gracies in those challenge matches. That suggests that his previous experience basically helped him skip the line. As I said before, in 1944 he moved to Natal, in the northeast of Brazil and opened an academy there, presenting himself as a student of Hélio (it is all documented), and not of any Japanese Judo master. It shows not only that he didn't see himself superior to Hélio in any way, but he also prioritized Hélio over any Japanese person in a time when people would easily lie about having a Japanese direct lineage for promotion. Now, as for the Gracies' accomplishments, if you don't believe an old Chinese Wing Chun or Tai Chi Chuan master can teach you secret deadly Dim Mak techniques, it's largely thanks to them. Yes, Judo existed before, but if you were alive in the 80's and 90's, it was seen by Karate, Kung Fu and Taekwondo practitioners as "child play". Phonies like Frank Dux and Steven Seagal were the authorities in the Martial Arts community.

[@seteetlemonde7656]

Nice

[@Chadi]

Thank you

[@combatprinciplesmma]

I have some friends that are with SAS which is the American fada lineage. If you're interested, I can hook you up with their contact info

[@scarred10]

i dont believe fadda is a seperate lineage ,franca was likely gracie trained as well.Its the same bjj anyway.

[@orlandocarrasquillo4481]

@@scarred10 Yes, it is, but yes pretty much the same. There are only so many ways to do grappling moves, but Fadda use to be more leg lock oriented might have been due to Luta Livre and more influenced with Judo throws.

[@chrischiang1512]

@@scarred10 Franca can't be possibly trained by Helio , since Franca started judo with Satake in 1916 and Helio was born in 1913. How possibly Helio be a master to someone who have much more experience under his belt, and not like Helio is a genius or what like what the Gracies wanted us to believe. I'm taking Robert Drysdale's finding with a pinch of salt, the timeline doesn't seem to match up. Why wouldn't people believe Fadda's lineage is non Gracie like what they have been claiming all this while.

[@peterjanjanin9883]

The Gracies were fascists

[@hagridmuller]

based

[@marcosjose6441]

Go home, man. 11:17.