Indoor Training IS Harder. But Why?!

[@gtn]

How different are your indoor & outdoor FTP's? 🚴‍♂⚡

[@robertthies9946]

Just bought and setup my 1st smart trainer this fall. Quickly noticed how much harder interval workouts were indoors vs doing them outdoors. Took a new ftp test indoors and found it was 13% lower than when tested outdoors just a month or so ago. At 1st I chalked it up to differences in power measurements but now it appears it's mostly do to the factors you have highlighted here. Thanks for the explanation and vid!

[@marcuswills6569]

3.9w/kg indoors, 4.2w/kg outdoors. Contrary to the video, I do run separate FTP's for indoors/outdoors. Indoors is certainly "harder".

[@andrewmcalister3462]

In terms of cooling indoors, if you need to get clearance from Air Traffic Control before turning on your fan, you’ve got it about right.

[@TruthFactsLM57]

Riding on my CATYE CS-1000 from 1987 till Dec 2023 was like driving my 1968 Plymouth Roadrunner with no AC, no power steering , basic AM-FM Radio . Now since Dec 2023 my Garmin NEO 2T is like driving my 2017 Toyota RAV4 . Zwift since Dec , 125 races, TRON bike in 48 days , 10,000 + miles . Not hard like what I had for 37 yrs . What is hard is losing two friends to getting hit by cars, and knowing how dangerous it is outdoors here in Florida . So glad for a safe bike trail, and modern technology of indoor training . Which has made outdoor riding and racing easier .

[@DaveStecker]

I don’t have a power meter for outdoor rides and thus I try to pay close attention to my heart rate and how I feel during certain zones inside. Seems to have worked pretty well.

[@dinoaustralia7752]

Exactly how I train. I seem to focus on power and stat training indoors and then use the nice outdoor sunny days to enjoy myself on the bike paying attention to my heart rate.

[@RobPaulNotPeter]

Me too, only have power measured on the indoor trainer, but last two races I've watched heart rate and kept that sensible.

[@mimi_micha8815]

Watching this while on a 3 hour indoor endurance workout.

[@peterreynolds5788]

I’ve done 8hr rides (outdoors), couldn’t even imagine a 3hr ride indoors! Chapeau

[@DanielMooreDJ]

I have 3hrs indoors tomorrow

[@itchyguy123]

Oh yeah well I do a 4 hour indoor ride every week

[@DanielMooreDJ]

@@itchyguy123 I do 5

[@itchyguy123]

@@DanielMooreDJ When I said 4 hours I meant for my recovery ride. I actually do 24 hour long ride every week so take that everyone I have the bigger ego

[@andyhickmann2173]

This reminds me of going from road running to trail running. Lower your expectations, focus on effort/fun, and don’t expect hit the same pace (FTP) that you would otherwise

[@SprintTri58]

Well, for one thing you can’t stop pedaling and coast like you can outside getting those constant breaks

[@aarons1073]

Yes you can...stop pedaling. Then pedal when you're ready.

[@SprintTri58]

Actually true if you are only riding by yourself

[@jareou]

@@SprintTri58 You can also in a group ride, no big deal

[@jayjaylh]

I have my first 70.3 coming up in couple weeks. I did one 4h outdoor ride on my tri bike and it was not pleasant. Stops, lights, constant clipping/unclipping, potholes, cars, other riders, TT bike to handle, I quickly went back inside after that. 2h+ indoor ride is boring but more practical than the alternative (for triathlon). Now if you are cycling on a normal bike with friends, outdoors is more fun.

[@gerrysecure5874]

I did full IM and never ever spent more than 2hrs on the indoor trainer, but did several 4-6hr rides outdoor.

[@notmyrealname6272]

I’ve trained on the turbo every day since May 2016 (yeah)with the odd day off and feel fit-ish but my bike handling skills are literally ZERO 😂

[@Ezrabateman09]

About to go on Zwift - best timing...

[@werdsmyth]

2:02 Squirrel!

[@gtn]

🐿

[@IanRansonet]

Felt the need to comment that I just tried doing my first full IM and did 95% of my rides indoors. I DNF’d at mile 97 on the bike. Personally with training mostly indoors I felt racing outside was significantly harder than my long indoor rides. Lesson learned. Will train outdoors more

[@gtn]

thanks for sharing your experience

[@2fast2sweet]

Were you just free riding indoors? For 70.3 and 140.6 I train 90% indoors with my long rides outside on Sundays. Every indoor ride is a structured workout, this is where you’ll build strength and endurance. I think if you’re free riding routes and long riding indoors, it will in fact be a lot harder outside.

[@IanRansonet]

@ all of my workouts were structured, power based targets. And I did do most of my long rides indoors. Making it a point to do most of my long rides outdoors from now on

[@thelesserzdoctor2345]

Been racing since I got the bug in 1986!!! Even back in the day, we used very dumb trainers for some winter training. I always maintained and still do that if you are doing it correctly, every mile on the trainer is worth 2 on the road. You’re not stopping at junctions nor coasting downhills. But you have to be disciplined enough to have the right HR resistance set ! Sprint intervals indoors (12x 45 secs throwing up max effort with 1.5 mins rest at 40% effort) have always gotten me into shape faster than any road ride. Now then, if you go MTB on muddy trails, then IMHO it is far far better for you all round - improved bike handling skills, better endorphins shower and every mile on the trails is worth 3 on the road! You really can’t beat it for winter training! Especially the fact that it can be done at night, during freezing conditions or even in some storms!

[@craigfullbrook7219]

I find it difficult to fulfil an FTP test in the UK, especially in Sussex/Surrey we don’t have long enough climbs/roads or lanes that allow you to properly complete intervals. There’s always junctions, other road users and more recently wildlife (abundance of squirrels) that get in the way of completing training out on the road

[@integralsun]

Perhaps the more relevant question is will your FTP improve if you augment your training with the use of a trainer? My experience is my trainer-measured FTP is measurably higher at the END of my off-season indoor training than when compared to my START FTP (upon returning back to indoor training). I attribute that loss to the more consistent riding and intensity I can achieve from indoor training.

[@marie-louisekarlander2366]

Interesting video 👍. My best 4x4 min intervals in Zwift I had a rainy day in the middle of the summer. I had bicycle a lot outside, did intensive workouts outside on country roads. I used to do those where it’s a little uphill for long time cause it’s easier to keep the watt. But that day I decided to bicycle in Zwift , both cause it was classic fours in the schedule and cause of the weather. First I was asking myself if something was wrong with Zwift , no answer, I looked down on watt pedals. Are they failing? Nothing strange the day before. Really it was confusing- I didn’t felt like I was pushing so hard and my cadence was higher . The only reason was that my FTP been higher temporarily that day. I had a good day. I used the same bike, the same trainer and watt pedals . I really want to have that feeling in my legs again. 😁 Marie-Louise

[@MR-wh5wp]

I cant imagine doing an FTP test outside. When i do one inside, im literally going to the DEATH where i cannot pay attention to anything else in the world other than pedalling my heart out. If you did that outside, that would be dangerous if anything or anyone interrupted the ride - you wouldnt have the ability to respond. Also, u cant just flop on the floor when your done like you can indoors. You would risk swirving into traffic.

[@andysmith2202]

My experience was outdoor ftp [20min uphill ride at 7%] was lower than indoors [in a cold garage]. so used that for ironman races but added 5-10% more when doing indoor sessions. Indoor trainer was a good time to watch a movie, rather than being on the couch eating snacks, but not too much, as I had minor niggles and then tendinopathy due to lack of breaks, so now use the indoor trainer for anaerobic stuff/sweet spot intervals which is ideal. Recovery is now eating snacks on the couch watching a movie.

[@Balkac]

I just bought an indoor trainer for myself this week and was so happy about how strong I will be after the winter as I finally don't skip the several months of riding. I'm not anymore, thanks guys! :D

[@erlendsteren9466]

I bought my trainer in december 2023, and after that I have done 110 hours on it, and ca 4000 km outdoors. I have been training consistently averaging 7 hours a week. Previous year I trained less in the autumn and on bad weather days. Indoortrainer fills in the holes I had in my consistency, and I am a lot stronger now than I was a year ago (Strava fitnessnumber has increased from 12 to 49).

[@panzerveps]

I do indoor ftp tests during the indoor season and outdoor ftp tests during the outdoor season. Winters are tough where I live.

[@MR-wh5wp]

I ride indoors every day. I hate riding outside - i feel its too dangerous where I live.

[@lars3509]

I think my Indoortrainer actually has an incorrect powermeter. I have an 270 W FTP outdoors, but indoors I can't even hold the 270 W for 3 minutes. On my Outdoorbike I have Favero Assiomas (dual), and my indoor trainer is the kickr snap. Did somebody experienced the same?

[@Michael-zf6bc]

Let your bike computer run during your indoor session and compare the numbers. I had something similar. My Kickr Core is showing the same numbers as my p2max (on tri bike) but the shimano 8100p (on road bike) is about 20 - 25 W lower. I could hold about 250 W for an hour on Zwift but on my road bike I was on my absolute limit when climbing at 250 W for 25 min. I always wondered why that is until I put the bike on the Kickr and compared Zwift's numbers and my Wahoo Roam's numbers. Additional conclusion: don't buy Shimano powermeters :D

[@thelesserzdoctor2345]

I had this. Put the the Assiomas onto your trainer and compare disparities then calibrate the indoor trainer. I trust my Assiomas far more than my Tacx smart trainer. Zwift claims I have 250w FTP (3.4w/kg) but I regularly drop my cycling buddies (of similar weights) on flats or climbs, with their Zwift FTPs closer to 300. I verified my TACX Neo was a decent 14% different + the cooling in my man cave is nowhere near as effective as the outdoors. On the upside, I get more “heat training” and pushing harder indoors to satisfy my ego for getting the right number on screen makes me a stronger outdoor rider 😂

[@lars3509]

@@thelesserzdoctor2345 Haha, yeah I thought about that but haven't tested it yet because I didn't want to change the pedals (or the bike). With the "ego" thing: For me it is the opposite. I don't enjoy riding indoors (at all) and the fact that I feel "weaker" on the indoor setup doesn't really push me. Feels more like a chore than a hobby. Though I am not using Zwift but instead listen to an audiobook or music. Anyways, I will mount my pedals on my indoor setup and compare / do an FTP Test.

[@lars3509]

@@Michael-zf6bc I currently use different bikes for the indoor/outdoor sessions. My gravelbike currently for outdoor and my roadbike for indoors. So my indoor setup only has the build in powermeter. Regarding the Shimanos: Yeah I heard similar things about their accuracy (or lack off)... But I will put my powermeter pedals on my indoor bike and check the results. Will be interesting :)

[@thelesserzdoctor2345]

@ you know, I’ve bing watched many a Netflix series while spending 2-3 hours climbing by feel indoors without even a look at the power numbers! Sometimes that is best ;) Also try Rouvey (spelling?) as it has real scenery! It may make it less of a chore. Final thought, I’ve often worked out to the GCN training videos and just used the trainer as a dumb turbo - they are excellent workouts and maybe more engaging than Zwift etc.

[@IronHulkTriathlon]

100% of my training is indoors. Just not worth the risk riding amongst traffic (unless you're a first timer and in a big group). My first few Ironmans I did a mix of indoor-outdoor training and can't say I've noticed any major differences other than I'm far happier riding indoors: not having to wake up at stupid-O'Clock to drive from the city to the countryside, only to find those roads full of pissed off motorist too... not having to worry about a flat... not having to worry about missing quality time with those close to me, not having to worry about where I'll be able to use the toilet if I really have to go... not having to worry about where I'll get more water or food.... etc. etc. All that said, I'd still recommend a first timer gets out there in some large group rides to work on their handling skills, equipment testing, stabilizing muscles, confidence, etc.

[@pauldavies5541]

You sound like you should live in a bubble. Get out and live a little!

[@exriodonorte67]

Im the same. What about running, do you do it indoors too? Im thinking about buying a treadmill

[@IronHulkTriathlon]

Both. I run outdoors when the elements and logistics allow for it. If it’s raining/snowing/pooping outside or if I only have time for a quick run and the path is far away then the treadmill is clutch. I think running outdoors is more challenging/effective for training. Also, we don’t have to worry about getting hit by a car while we workout, like we do if cycling outdoors.

[@exriodonorte67]

@@IronHulkTriathlon Bur is it worth the treadmill?

[@IronHulkTriathlon]

@@exriodonorte67 If you're asking if treadmill workouts are effective then I'd say yes but running outside should still be the priority. Running outside = best. Treadmill = nice to have.

[@erlendsteren9466]

I have a Rouvi-Wahoo ftp indoors, and a Strava ftp outdoors that I only see when I get home and look it up on the computer. Indoors I do sometimes target a spesific watt , I can for example decide to stay near 190. Outdoors pacing is only by percieved hardness and pulse watch. This is enough for me, but I think wattmeter outdoor is nice for people that communicates with coaches. I think its harder to pedal 250 watts estimated by Strava outdoors than to do 250 on my indoortrainer, and its harder to pedal 250 Strava-watts on gravel than it is on tarmac. But why is it harder indoors for Mark and James? My guess is that Mark and James are on aero tempobikes and has a very good aero-position which is not the same as the indoortrainer-programme calculates. Is indoors harder? I think its about how much power you put in. To mee I probably goes harder inndoors because I am pedaling in dexcends where I would have been coasting and breaking if I were outdoors. And the more technical the outdoors get, the less average pulse I get. Indoors there are plenty of races to choose, and those races of course makes me go harder.

[@eloann]

I've only ever ridden to power on the trainer, and never go quite as deep outdoors but this is making me curious. I should hopefully have access to a power meter next year.

[@gerrysecure5874]

I got 15% power difference in/out on same bike with same PM. Besides the obvious temperature and psychological reasons, I bet the difference in pedalling dynamics is the 3rd major factor. Using different zones for in-/outdoor is absolutely mandatory if FTP differs more than 5% also for different bikes like road vs TT bike. Also flat vs incline yields different numbers. A watt is NOT a watt biologically. Again dynamics and cooling.

[@bobbyellis5006]

I had no idea that indoor FTP was lower than outdoor FTP. That's exciting for me, as my last FTP test was done on an indoor trainer and it was higher than my last outdoor test.

[@gerrysecure5874]

Non matching power meters 😂 Different devices can differ wildly.

[@bobbyellis5006]

@gerrysecure5874 I'm taking victories where I can find them.

[@terrymcmaster2787]

Could you please do an episode on Canyon’s product warning on some of its tri bikes. Forks falling off. I cannot get a word out of Canyon: they do not respond to emails. Just the shrill 5 November email saying stop riding because your bike is not safe

[@michaelholmes5283]

What should you do? Put a support under your front wheel?

[@janwens5046]

Totaly agree that for most 'normal' people it doenst really matter. Just use the same FTP for indoor and outdoor. I would like to add: just do the ftp test only indoor to have constant readings. Plus be sure to calibrate the powermeter from the trainer with your bike.

[@ymi_yugy3133]

How do you even test FTP outdoors? I find it exceedingly hard to find 20 min worth of well paved, relatively straight road

[@PixelVibe42]

Alpe d’Huez is perfect for an outdoor FTP test

[@timmcgrath9788]

Hills outdoor makes it harder, while stop signs and traffic lights make it easier. Speed limits on shared use busy trails keep me from getting close to FTP for quite a bit of the ride. I ride 95% of the time indoors due to busy shoulder-less roads in our area.

[@Cycle.every.day.]

UK weather is awful all year round since 2020.

[@PixelVibe42]

Lockdown 1.0 had THE best weather in fairness!

[@Sutlore007]

I would say that riding indoor in a month without any going outdoor making me unfamiliar when riding down a steep hill. I could feel my road bike so twitchy and a little bit scary. So, I will ride indoor after I washed the bike, picking a threshold of VO2max wourkout. Going outdoor after I feel that anaerobic traiings are enough in a week.

[@EverythingWasGreat]

I went from 343 W ftp outdoor (20 min effort) to 329 W ftp indoor (ramp test).

[@starshockey11]

I’ve done 3 full Ironmans and all my bike splits are in the top 50 largely because 99.9 percent of my training is indoors. Outdoors is (almost) a waste of time in my opinion!

[@PixelVibe42]

Not my story, but someone I know who ran a tour up Mont Ventoux was met with a rider who claimed they had trained indoors and ‘could do Mont Ventoux’ in 30 minutes indoors. They exploded at 30 minutes into the real climb, and flew home the next day ….😂

[@nikolaradic304]

What tech just put a book under the front wheel😅

[@thelesserzdoctor2345]

Exactly what I did! Books under front wheel for the win!

[@peterliljebladh]

The biggest difference is that the flywheel does not weight in at 100 kg as it should.

[@peterholmes2364]

That's why you should ride rollers 👍

[@PixelVibe42]

YES!!!

[@c0mm3nt-m8e]

Indoor training can be combined with heat training

[@lionelgower6877]

Squirrel 2.04

[@Real28]

Riding indoors is just...I'm too tempted to just get off the bike Can't do that when I get 10miles from home on my route. I just have to turn around and go home.

[@garthbean3352]

I hear you. On a treadmill that stop button gets bigger every minute I am on it. Years ago I joined a running group because... no stop button running outside.

[@Analysethat.]

Indoor FTP much higher - Could never replicate it unless i was on a track or lived in the countryside 🤔

[@nycdrummingstar]

Finally, I have the video that I've been wronging to see. Thank you guys!

[@jareou]

I ride way much harder outdoors than on zwift or Rouvy, my indoor programs of choice, using a wahoo kickr. You cannot duplicate a real uphill 15% climb and decent. I ride harder on Rouvy because I ride roads I actually had ridden in real world.

[@repo4]

Because it's so effin boooooooriiing!!

[@DittersGustav]

Thats it for me. Beating lazyness to ride is hard enough even when you can go outside, get some fresh air, see things. If you get to do it looking at a screen its 10x harder.

[@johnalves2765]

My FTP is higher indoor. Please explain that!

[@Southerncyclist]

One of your power meters is wrong

[@johnalves2765]

@Southerncyclist same power meter indoor and outdoor!

[@Southerncyclist]

@johnalves2765 🤔 trainer resistance is easier. Zero your trainer.

[@johnalves2765]

@@Southerncyclist on rollers therefore no other factors contribute to any miss reading! Power reading for both are from Assioma Power Pedals.

[@Southerncyclist]

@@johnalves2765 crazy

[@tommylobotommy]

My ftp is higher indoors, most likely because I don’t race outside, and I live in the flat area. Zwift racing ispushibg me to my limits.

[@WittyTzipporah]

Literally just got off the trainer and I see this 😂😂

[@jonathanzappala]

One more factor I am going to explore soon, inside, the CO2 ppm could be detrimentally high indoors. I have an indoor air quality monitor, I’ve only been using it in my bedroom so far, but it will end up in the pain cave at some point. If high CO2 is detrimental to cognitive performance, it sure must be to physical. The question is do my fans clear the room bringing in enough fresh air? In the colder months I open the window and bring in that fresh air, mainly for the lower temps.

[@Ciherean]

I ride so often indoor that my FTP is possibly even higher than outdoor 🤪

[@hammerridecycling7630]

and power is more higher outdoor than indoor

[@notreally2406]

Indoor is harder because the trainers force you into an unnatural pedaling style and dont replicate real world stroke feel

[@Choedron]

Riding outside is more boring in my view. You can make achievements riding on fx Zwift and other platforms. And race or participate in events to take you away from boredom. I also find it easier to make a plan indoors. Only annoyance is the lack of wind and rain indoors. If you then go outside, you are not used to wind and rain. So, I think you should do both to getting used to any weather situation. If indoor training included weather simulation, then it might not be such a big problem. For instance live weather on the route, so you bear the added resistance according to the weather.

[@erlendsteren9466]

Indoors and outdoors are different pleasures. On a nice outdoor-ride fine things happen. Around the road there are deers, sheep and crows. And I have been passed by riders that are demi-gods, (Johannes Kulseth from Uno-X and Embret Svestad- Baardseng from Arcea B&B Hotels), and I have been passed by riders that I could ride with. Deep in the forest after 27km ride I arrive at Kikutstua. I buy a delicious waffle and coffe and sits outside on a bench looking at the lake "Bjørnsjøen". On a nice summerday we might be 30 bikers out on those benches, and sometimes we get a nice chat.

[@PixelVibe42]

Try training in the Alps in summer - no way that’s boring!

[@Adonteon21]

Squirrel

[@thelesserzdoctor2345]

Been racing since I got the bug in 1986!!! Even back in the day, we used very dumb trainers for some winter training. I always maintained and still do that if you are doing it correctly, every mile on the trainer is worth 2 on the road. You’re not stopping at junctions nor coasting downhills. But you have to be disciplined enough to have the right HR resistance set ! Sprint intervals indoors (12x 45 secs throwing up max effort with 1.5 mins rest at 40% effort) have always gotten me into shape faster than any road ride. Now then, if you go MTB on muddy trails, then IMHO it is far far better for you all round - improved bike handling skills, better endorphins shower and every mile on the trails is worth 3 on the road! You really can’t beat it for winter training! Especially the fact that it can be done at night, during freezing conditions or even in some storms!