Gun Violence in America: A Conversation with Graeme Wood (Episode

In this episode of the podcast, Sam Harris speaks with Graeme Wood about the problem of gun violence in the aftermath of the mass shooting in Uvalde, Texas.
Graeme Wood is a national correspondent for The Atlantic. He has written for The New Yorker, The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and many other publications. He was the 2014-2015 Edward R. Murrow Press Fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, and he teaches in the political science department at Yale University. He is the author of The Way of the Strangers: Encounters with the Islamic State.
Website: www.theatlantic.com/author/gr...
Twitter: @gcaw
Released: May 30, 2022
SUBSCRIBE to gain access to all full-length episodes of the podcast at samharris.org/subscribe/
Subscribe to the YT channel: kzbin.info_c...
Follow Making Sense on Twitter: / makingsensehq
Follow Sam on Facebook: / samharrisorg
Follow Sam on Instagram: / samharrisorg
For more information about Sam Harris: www.samharris.org

[@gitar1hero1qaz]

Ammo prices fluctuate so wildly that its not uncommon for people to stock up thousands of rounds during cheap periods to make it through 3-5 years of quadruple/quintuple prices. This does make sense for those that shoot regularly.

[@ayeeniko]

This.

[@tacklengrapple6891]

People who don’t shoot, or own multiple firearms, have absolutely no concept of this. Like you said, ammo prices go all over the place, and shortages happen all the time. A thousand rounds of ammunition, say 9mm for instance, is really nothing for someone who shoots regularly. Even if you only shoot a hundred rounds once a month, which is like a single, short range trip, your out of ammo in ten months. When you then want to buy another thousand rounds ten months later, you find out that either the supply has dried up for one reason or another, or that the price has now doubled or tripled from ten months previous. Your are now screwed, and this scenario is just for one firearm. Now imagine you own multiple, maybe some rifles, a shotgun, and a few handguns. This is why many gun owners stock up on thousands of rounds.

[@dfdf4874]

Absolutely. Many non-gun owners don't even know there's been a pretty bad ammo shortage over the last couple of years that is now starting to stabilize somewhat with retailers imposing limitations on the amount you can purchase at any one time.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@tacklengrapple6891 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@Oscarhagsjo]

@@tacklengrapple6891 yeah imagine the horror of not being able to shoot for a couple of months. OUCH!!!

[@carlograziano722]

It was great to hear Sam’s humanness. So many people joke that he’s always so calm, measured and composed, he may be along the psychopath spectrum. He clearly is not. He’s just very professional.

[@Rio-zh2wb]

it's really strange that people see Sam's maturity and think it's a disorder lol smells like envy

[@austingoyne3039]

Convenience matters. Even if the bad guy “could get a gun if he really wants to”, that doesn’t mean he will. Putting up roadblocks and speed bumps will help.

[@Alnivol666]

The road blocks existed. Nobody really cared. All the signs were there. People pointed it out. Authorities ignored them. This guy showed so many signs. He was not hiding. Yet nobody cared. This speaks more about society than anything else. We will talk 5 minutes about this and then nothing will change. These boys will again be ignored. Rinse and repeat.

[@austingoyne3039]

@@Alnivol666 no value in fatalism. We have to keep trying. I would think some legislation could allow for action after such posts. Red flag laws?

[@Alnivol666]

@@austingoyne3039 You have to understand that for this shooting to happen a lot of things had to go wrong. From the open door to the school, to the inexistent first response of the police and so many other things. There were roadblocks in place that became irrelevant due to people not caring. And yes...background checks should include social media posts. And stop selling guns to 18 year olds. Always fascinated me how in the US you can't drink alcohol until 21, but you can drive from 16 and own guns from 18.

[@austingoyne3039]

@@Alnivol666 those are great ideas. Wholeheartedly agree with a new age restriction. My problem is with Republicans who act like just because some people fall through the cracks, gun laws don’t work. Of course they work.

[@austingoyne3039]

@@Alnivol666 If Salvador Ramos couldn’t legally buy a firearm, he would need to set up a straw purchase. That could lead to an arrest. Or he would need to get into the secondary market. It’s possible, but requires some savvy, or connections, and he may not find the same type of weapon, or for the same price. People deliberately oversimplify this issue.

[@mike8595]

Asian people live in the USA as well, which means they have the exact same access to firearms, and yet their homicide rates are comparable to countries like Japan. Why is that?

[@fairlanemuscle]

Culture. Culture. Culture.

[@Mercurie3]

@@fairlanemuscle Exactly. Well, more specifically Values, which usually come from your upbringing and environment. Seems like no one on the left wants to talk about this. Now, I think the Right are wrong in some ways but at least they are talking about culture in regard to this issue.

[@joshlasky8138]

That could be alot of things but culture sure is a part of it

[@TheRobdarling]

@@Mercurie3 The culture on the right is a death culture... they love to kill, most anything.

[@joekenney7459]

Because they have better sense.

[@AndyfromWrexham]

I disagree with Graham's point that the guy who sold the Uvalde shooter his gun should be made to feel worse and we should all know his name. I'm not into punishing people for the crime of being unable to predict the future.

[@joshr920]

Yeah I don’t know where he was going with that argument. Can’t exactly expect gun shop owners to quiz customers about what they plan on using a gun for and for all we know the shooter may have acted fairly normally when buying the gun.

[@Thevweight]

Yeah this was a strange point to make considering he has just observed a few minutes earlier that psychos can present themselves in a totally affable manner when they want to

[@TriggerHappy923]

It’s trying to shift the blame. A business just does what’s legal. It’s legal to sell to a child. They can’t refuse to sell to a child because it’s their job. It’s up to the those who are writing these laws.

[@okaro6595]

He should lose his right to sell guns for life.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

Yeah that's fucking insane. That's the type of talk that makes pro gun type people immediately shut down. Assuming he did the legally required background checks wtf is he suppose to do?

[@fredrik8500]

When people can’t cope with emotions internally, they inevitably project this as anger outwards. When a person lacks the ability to introspect, this anger becomes boundless.

[@Dino2GunZ]

Yes and this is a huge issue

[@acutecloudd7970]

Exactly. Has nothing to do with video games

[@jackocallaghan9077]

Yes and in most countries people lash out with alcohol etc. In America they put bullets through kids. What a f***** up country.

[@Conn30Mtenor]

@@acutecloudd7970 I'm thinking that violence predates video games and Marilyn Manson, et. al. by a healthy margin.

[@animeking17]

And we give guns to release that anger lol

[@sigmarecovery699]

I was a police officer for ten years. I liken this problem with gun violence in this country to a drug addiction, like any addiction, until the pain of things staying the same exceeds the pleasure, the problem will not change. The thing that never seems to be talked about is how frequently it is the combination of alcohol and a gun that creates the disaster. The vast majority of crimes and incidents I investigated that involved a firearm, alcohol use was a factor. While virtually every state has laws on the book that prohibit the possession of a firearm while under the influence, within my own state, unless you were a convicted felon, an arrest made by a municipal officer for possessing a firearm while intoxicated while be disposed of through city court. Maximum penalty? 6 months in jail and a $500.00 fine. Usual consequence? Fine, court costs, and one year of unsupervised probation and yes, they will get their gun back.

[@BloggerMusicMan]

It's not usual to hear Sam Harris get so emotional. I get it. This story REALLY hit a lot of people in their core.

[@papajoeman23]

How could it not. The most innocent ( young kids ) being mowed down at school, that just sends chills down my back

[@trenchtown69]

@@papajoeman23 and nothing happens. Absolutely nothing.

[@crazierthan-u7571]

I don't listen to Sam as often as I once did, but I've never heard him made mute by his efforts not to erupt into sobs. I started bawling while I was reading this: "Angel Garza, a first responder and father of 10-year-old Amerie Jo Garza, arrived at the school Tuesday and gave medical aid to a girl covered head-to-toe in blood. The girl said she'd seen her best friend killed -- and the best friend's name was Amerie. " 'How are you going to look at this girl and shoot her?'" Garza told CNN on Wednesday. 'My baby, how do you shoot my baby?'"

[@slipknnnot]

@@trenchtown69 what action did you demand when we killed half a million innocent people in Iraq including children ?

[@kirathekillernote2173]

@@slipknnnot Absolutely wrong analogy comparing war situation in islamist dictatorship to unnecessary tragedy in heart of a modern country

[@scottpitner4298]

My father is a prime example of someone who’s a serious about firearms as one could be. Growing up we would go to the range just a handful of times not Lots of times. He would clean them properly. He instilled in me a sense of danger while yielding them which commands respect everytime I even see one. He told me times he’d compete in target competition. We would only shoot maybe a few dozen rounds- just enough to stay current in his mind. It’s fun but would never ever conjure up a Wild West attitude in my father. He always was just serious and respectful of them and taught me how to shoot with basic defense skills. Love you dad

[@dnbjedi]

Honorable man

[@bizonc]

We treat them as just another weapon or toy and they are not. They demand respect and they are designed to be lethal

[@kantraxoikol6914]

good for you! now, let's go back to the ones who buy 2000 rounds , two assult rifles , write a manifesto, and shoot 17 kids. i don't care about the RESPONSIBLE gun owners as long as kids are dying, you can RESPONSIBLY give up yours if they don't have them too right? i mean , are you THAT attached to your toys?

[@dylanblack3279]

My father taught me similar knowledge about guns when I was young.

[@chickenfishhybrid44]

You say only shoot a few dozen rounds like that's the respectable way to shoot or something

[@DennisMoore664]

I know it's probably unpopular but Sam is right. The problem of gun violence is not the same problem as mass casualty massacres or suicides with a firearm. All are problems that need solutions but each problem needs its own solutions. There's no single answer for all of it.

[@Tenorio74]

I thought the same. Halfway through there is blatant faulty logic from a philosopher, who says that because semi-automatic assault rifles won't solve the "gun problem" they are not the problem. They sure were the problem at Uvalde, Sandy Hook etc. It is INSANE how the US can't see the forest for the trees.

[@slipknnnot]

Its not really a problem when taken in the context of deaths to lifestyle induced diseases, medical malpractice and automobile accidents

[@Tenorio74]

That's the fallacy of relative privation.

[@MrCmon113]

@@slipknnnot Precisely. No one wants to overthrow the constitution over fat people.

[@WideAwakeHuman]

​@@slipknnnot the anti-gun crowd won't even let you mention the relative scale like you have when that's obviously an important fact and would be taken into account in any other topic...

[@ASM881]

I’d love to see Sam do a podcast on the Heroin-Fentanyl-Benzodiazepine/Fentanyl crisis that’s killing massive numbers of people.

[@DY2784]

Those people choose to ingest what’s killing them. Nobody is showing up unexpectedly and forcing the drugs down their throat…. The comparison is nonsensical.

[@paullampl1]

Part of the mental health crisis in America.

[@BoRisMc]

Have you heard of tobacco? Alcoholic beverages perhaps?

[@ASM881]

@@DY2784 I didn’t make a comparison. I mentioned a thing I’d like to see. 🙄.

[@emuccino]

@@DY2784 Actually, that's exactly what is happening in many cases. There are people, who otherwise would never choose to use drugs, that become addicted to painkillers which were once been prescribed to them for legitimate reasons. Once their prescription runs out, their addiction takes them to street drugs. Purchasing prescription drugs off the street can be very expensive, and people often end up settling for cheaper, more dangerous options.

[@mbarker_lng]

A note about running vs. shelter in place. SiP is a bad idea (IMHO) for the reasons given here, but everyone running simultaneously creates a new problem. Its a known issue about human psychology that when we flee in terror, we head to the last known entrance/exit. This was the situation of The Station nightclub fire where 100 people died trying to funnel through the entrance while several other exits were readily available. This could create a scenario where children are jam packed at a doorway creating a 'cannot miss' scenario for a shooter. Its why fire drills (including adult ones if you work Government buildings) are carried out in an orderly fashion.

[@dfhdf4214]

an active shooter and a fire aren't completely analogous and a school is much more spread out than a nightclub. so not only would it be more staggered from each point to an exit unlike a fire many people will be emotionally compelled to act differently no matter what is taught. some will be too afraid to run and barricade themselves. some will exit through the closest window. some will hesitate and precede cautiously. some will immediately sprint to an exit. it's not like a fire where everyone instantly knows to just get out. and for that reason i wouldn't discourage any of it

[@elsabean6791]

You make some good points, but I think that the reasons you’ve stated here are exactly why most schools have active shooter drills now on a regular basis, and probably why they’ve been having tornado drills for forever. My kids started active shooter drills in elementary school, right after Sandy Hook. The teachers have to keep the classroom doors closed now, and every entry/exit door in the school stays closed and locked. They have cameras at the front doors and anybody coming in has to be buzzed in once the bell rings. In their elementary and middle schools, every classroom had a door that led outside, but only some of their classrooms in their high school had a second exit. All of these things make people feel safer, but it never did for me. I bought both my kids bulletproof backpack inserts that were supposed to be able to stop a bullet from an AR-15 (because that’s statistically the most likely weapon they would be faced with in a school shooting), and that made me feel a little better, but I ultimately told them as Graeme has said here to run if they can, and play dead if they can’t. I told them don’t try to be a hero, just try to survive. That makes me sad, but jfc, I’d always take an alive kid that ran than a dead kid that helped others get out. As valiant, courageous, and worthy of respect as many of the victims of past school shootings have been, no kid or teacher should ever even be put in a position where they could be a hero while protecting their friends/students from a rampaging gunman.

[@philosopher0076]

I don't like any of the solutions you people have offered up here. Sorry but all are too unsafe and slow, risky to a degree higher than is reasonable or necessary if better implementations are put in place. I have what are IMO much better alternative methods.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@philosopher0076 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@stonecookie]

The buildings need to be able to drop a wall or a large part of them. A retrofit where it wall drops straight into the ground or a large portion- retracts or half retracts into the wall like a sliding closet door. This can decrease bottlenecks. Trampeling risks diminish if people disperse to a broad area.

[@TheSilverGate]

Banning doors to solve gun killings is like banning corners to try to get rid of spider webs

[@robinhood20253]

Very well said

[@Randylayhe001]

The Japanese termed it "Yukiko Syndrome" we know medias constant bombardment of tragedy can and does motivate the most vulnerable. Nearly EVERY mass murderer using social media before and during the act, afterwards the "news media" picks it up and perpetuates the story.

[@isanchez3404]

I live in San Antonio, TX, and I went to one of the Uvalde memorials for the 21 victims, (plus the husband of one of the teachers) on Saturday. This was my first visit to one of these memorials....it was incredibly sad and shocking seeing each individual memorial for the victims. On the other hand, the sense of unity and community is something I haven't felt since 911.

[@Conn30Mtenor]

Hell of a price for unity.

[@blueprince2330]

I hope you thanked all the democrats that were there, for their support of the ever so effective "gun free zones".

[@patrickdoyle9304]

Unity me eye... atrocities like this are inexcusable, and any politician against gun control should be booted out

[@twntwrs]

We're really big on Thoughts and Prayers™Pat.Pend."

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@patrickdoyle9304 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@EnhancedNightmare]

This talk about school design reminded me of my schools and uni building in the Netherlands and Germany. Each classroom had exit to the outside, above ground level each class had exit to scaffolding permanently around. They did this for fire safety but in case of active shooter we all could just walk outside without any problems.

[@erikkovacs3097]

My elementary school in Southern California was the same way. All classrooms opened to the outside with two doors.

[@TriggerHappy923]

I think this would be a problem because they could run outside and now have a clear shot of a crowd to aim at.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@erikkovacs3097 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@erikkovacs3097]

@@CarsonHughes85 Are you trying to get the KZbin rando’s perspective?

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@erikkovacs3097 I like the way you put that, and yes, With my KZbin channel I’m basically creating a place for regular people to share and challenge each other’s ideas. If you want to give it a shot, send me a message and we’ll set something up, my contact info in the “about” section of my channel.

[@rickneibauer1]

As a conservative who was raised in a liberal household (not in one with good rational arguments such as yours), I can appreciate your very nuanced and intelligent views on a this subject (and many others). When listening to you, I tend to give you unfair criticism and that is wrong. Although I may not always agree with you, you are truly a gem of a mind and DEFINITELY worth listening to.

[@CarsonHughes85]

Dicky, I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@timothygormley1305]

In return you mark yourself as a decent and thoughtful fellow

[@collydub1987]

Literally any idea apart from getting rid of guns from your society.

[@4x4r974]

yea get rid of guns and transition to knife crime like the UK where you're stabbed for breathing the wrong way. Wake the fuck up

[@RobertMJohnson]

so we should, right now, strip 100% of Ukrainians of their firearms. good call, Anderson!

[@komododragon5846]

'No chance that handguns will ever get banned' - meanwhile Canada is banning handguns entirely. Different country yes but interesting Sam said that the same day Trudeau announced the exact thing Sam says will never happen.

[@txdmsk]

Makes sense. Your peasants should not have firearms to oppose your rule.

[@DavidBrown-ts2us]

He meant it'll never happen in the United States because of the gun culture and the 2A

[@alugificator]

What works in Canada is not the same for what will work in the US - surely this is obvious?

[@bleach219]

He didn't actually ban handguns, he put a stop to the import of additional handguns and to transferring ownership of existing handguns. All the people that currently have them keep them. That's Canada not the US, the gun lobby owns at least half the politicians in the US and a majority of the judges, no gun ban would ever survive long enough to be put in effect.

[@mtsurov]

[Get off the X strategy] is something that is worthy of learning for self defense scenarios. Travis Haley training comes to mind as a good starting point.

[@neguhjoe]

Love this conversation, but I must take exception to the idea that guns are "rarely abused" in Israel. This is demonstrably untrue, regardless of how you feel about Israel.

[@neguhjoe]

@@satireofcircumstance6458 Well, not necessarily. The main reason I respect Sam's body of work is his capacity and disposition for clear thinking and sincerity. I would not expect his Jewish background to inform his opinions. With that said, there's a couple things I've heard Sam say about Palestinians and Palestine which I find shockingly unfair. I still can't help but love his content and the conversations he engages in. But its a little painful for me, personally, not gonna lie.

[@dylanblack3279]

There are far fewer mass shootings in Israel than the U.S.

[@kronosDking]

What do you mean by this? How are guns abused in Israel? As far as I can tell, as an Israeli, they're mostly uses in criminal organizations, and especially so in the Arabic population which has a huge gun violence problem.

[@jgreen2015]

@19:00 Only in America can 220 mass shootings in 153 days, and 27 school shootings in 20 weeks be dismissed as not really a big deal

[@MichalKaczorowski]

In most of Europe last mass schooting od civillians was done by Germans in 1945 ;)

[@Slopdoggy]

@@MichalKaczorowski how about the theater massacre in France? Forgot about that one? They used AKs if I remember correctly that was illegal of them. They didn’t seem to obey the laws. Odd, that.

[@jgreen2015]

@@Slopdoggy he specifically said 'most of europe' France is not 'most of europe' It's one small part of Europe. And one small part of Europe does not counter the claim 'most of europe' It WOULD counter the claim 'all of europe' But not 'most' 🙄

[@RobertMJohnson]

pretty sure the Ukraine beat us in terms of statistics. but you're not thinking, so we should give you a pass for lack of thinking/lack of logic

[@ASDeckard]

@@jgreen2015 28 of America's 50 states have had zero mass shootings in their entire history's. Only 13 of Europe's 51 nations can say the same. Just saying things, don't mind me.

[@halneufmille]

This conversation really lacks data. The simple question is this: In the US, what is the probability that a gun (AR15 or hand gun) bought by a civilian will A: harm an innocent (through aggression or self-harm) B: help someone in self-defense I don't have the data (it may not be easy to get). But my prior is A vastly outweighs B. If that's the case, when Sam and Graeme are saying "Since there is a slight possibility B may happen to me, we must accept A as a society" (plus guns are fun), I hope they do recognize this is the choice they are making.

[@danielpurvis4340]

CDC has this data. B far outweighs A

[@bleach219]

Data is actually pretty difficult to get, the NRA has repeatedly sued to obscure as much information as possible about gun violence to prevent research from occurring.

[@suekoi3885]

Read “Defensive Gun Use: Gary Kleck Misfires Again”.

[@tayler2396]

I can tell you that the "FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table 8," which is very easy to find, will give you some of the data you seek. There are fewer than 400 murders annually in which the murderer used a rifle as a weapon. The table doesn't break down rifles into specific types, but rifles of all types are used as murder weapons in fewer than 400 murders per year. 400 in a country of 335,000,000 citizens and legal residents and perhaps another 20,000,000 without legal status. According the CDC, 41,000 people are killed annually by *other people's* tobacco smoke.

[@crazierthan-u7571]

With regard to media coverage of school shootings, here's what forensic psychiatrist Park Dietz said in a 2009 BBC interview; “We’ve had 20 years of mass murders throughout which I have repeatedly told CNN and our other media, if you don’t want to propagate more mass murders, don’t start the story with sirens blaring. Don’t have photographs of the killer. Don’t make this 24/7 coverage. Do everything you can not to make the body count the lead story, not to make the killer some kind of anti-hero. Do localize the story to the affected community and make it as boring as possible in every other market. Because every time we have intense saturation coverage of a mass murder, we expect to see one or two more within a week.” And he is but one of many in his field who've been saying this. Following the 2014 Seattle Pacific University shooting, Dietz complained in another interview that the media had completely ignored these warnings: “I have been on CNN at least three times saying, ‘If you keep this up, we’re going to have another one within two weeks,’” he said. “And I’ve been right all three times.” If the news media are finally beginning to heed the advice of Dietz and other threat-assessment experts, they've been mighty slow coming around.

[@Illlium]

What do you expect them to do, cut into their profits on an off-chance it will prevent another tragedy? The money gods require a sacrifice.

[@radscorpion8]

I doubt FOX news would ever respect that line of reasoning either

[@mike8595]

@@radscorpion8 BuT FoX NeWZ!!!!

[@Slopdoggy]

@@radscorpion8 wonderful. Not a single mention of Fox News in the OP but somehow you read into his statement that “Fox News wouldn’t do this” despite him never having said that at all. God damn it’s so frustrating

[@bleach219]

Lol, so does that logic only apply to mass shootings or other coverage as well? Want to reduce murders, rapes and republicans winning elections simply never report on any of them. Pretend they never happen and it'll magically make it so. How many mass shootings can you name that happened this year? I can name 2-4 but the reality is within the first 21 weeks of the year there were 213 mass shootings and only a handful ever got national media coverage.

[@jake8200]

The truth is that the United States has a rampant mental health crisis and I will be the first to admit that it's difficult to really see where it begins or ends but there is something going on that cannot be ignored.

[@dylanblack3279]

Free market capitalism.

[@duinay3]

The shooter must have really hated the town he lived in and wanted to hit them where it would hurt them the most.

[@howardkendrick5658]

I live in the UK. Never seen a gun apart from armed forces (on parade) and police at the airport and in London after July 07. I wouldn't even know how to go about getting a gun. Don't want to know either.

[@davegold]

Completly agree. I don't worry about what to do if there is a violent intruder in the home. I don't expect there to be a violent intruder in my home.

[@MrCmon113]

@@davegold I don't wash my food, I'm a decade late on some vaccines and I repair stuff at home that I have no business repairing. But I don't force everyone else to make all of the same choices I do.

[@RobertMJohnson]

but you're ok with Ukrainians being killed in their own nation. Got it, Kendrick. brilliant comment by the way

[@joshlasky8138]

Well that's you. Why do you expect everyone else to conform to your lifestyle?

[@hyperretroactivehyperretro5992]

When you need it you will wish you had it.

[@cuzinevil1]

There were two ideas in this podcast that made sense to me. 1. In every class room where possible there should be a second exit, preferably to the outside and 2. RUN. I can see an entire school emptying out in seconds leaving the shooter with no one left to shoot at except those coming to shoot him.

[@62Cristoforo]

A second exit means a second entrance and another way to break in for a shooter

[@emuccino]

@@62Cristoforo Then you just leave through the other exit?

[@DefinedEdits]

@@emuccino hahaha I legit laughed out loud at this xD

[@ryanlindee4705]

Windows…

[@maxfedor1]

Iam from Canada. I have an 8 & 10 yr old. When I research the schools that might kids go to, I don’t think about 1 or 2 exits. Armed guards, or bullet proof glass. Seriously How can anyone bring up these issues. Americans scream about their exceptionalism. They are exceptional compared to all most all countries on the planet, who don’t ponder whether teachers should carry guns. Cognitive dissonance times 10

[@theguythatiam]

I liked the nuanced discussion for the most part. One thing that was proposed here that is quite dangerous, however, is holding sellers of a legally obtained firearm liable for the actions of a shooter after the fact. It should be obvious why this is an absolutely horrible idea, but trying to punish outside of the proper realm of accountability is something that has no end. You could just as easily draw a link to political affiliation or celebrity influence and start assigning blame to people with bad ideas. At the end of the day, only those directly involved in the incident should be held to account - that is the legal standard and I see no reason why that would change now or in 100 years.

[@skullkrusher4418]

I think they were discussing that more in the situation where there would be already tighter gun control. If there are measures in place at every gun store that are legally required to ensure that a weapon doesn't get sold to the wrong person, and then the gun seller doesn't abide by those measures and sells a gun to someone who then uses it for mass murder, I think there is a legitimate discussion regarding reprimanding the store owner. Not sure what it's like in America, but here in Canada, bartenders and waiters can be held legally responsible if they serve too much alcohol to a customer who then gets in their car and drives home and gets in a lethal accident injuring themselves or someone else. Similarly, it's the responsibility of a store owner to make sure they don't sell alcohol/weed/cigarettes to someone under age. This type of responsibility regarding the selling of guns is something I think should definitely be on the table. But obviously there would have to be researched measures to be put in place.

[@theguythatiam]

@@skullkrusher4418 I think doubling up there on something that would already be illegal overcomplicates things though. It is illegal, for example, to sell alcohol to a minor. If we want tougher punishment for the crime, I think that's fine and is easy to implement. Exponentially assigning blame based on crimes committed on top of that negligence is messy and difficult to execute in law. Regardless, I think the key issue here is not more laws but rather better oversight and implementation. In this particular shooting, all laws were followed and I don't see any reasonable implementation that could prevent this from occurring at the gun acquisition level. You could say that the police failing to do their job caused many more too die, but see how holding people accountable via negligence isn't so clear cut?

[@skullkrusher4418]

@@theguythatiam Yeah I know what you mean. I was more just stating that there is at least some sort of precedent for those types of laws. I see why holding people accountable for negligence in this scenario doesn't make sense. But that's because there isn't clear or at least stringent enough (imo) legislation regarding who can be sold a gun. For example, if a law were put in place that you needed to present results of a recent psychiatric evaluation to a store owner in order to be able to buy a gun, but then a store owner sold someone a gun without asking for proof of psychiatric evaluation, then the owner of the gun store SHOULD be held partially responsible. That's more the kind of thing I was talking about, hence why I mentioned that new regulations would have to be put in place BEFORE what they were talking about would make sense. But I think there is indeed room for discussion here.

[@keithmorgan3295]

You'd have to be an American to find it nuanced.

[@theguythatiam]

@@keithmorgan3295 Not sure if that's a slight and to whom it would even be directed?

[@davidpugh5227]

Great talk. Can't recommend it enough for anyone who is having strong feelings about recent events.

[@CarsonHughes85]

David, I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@jaykay6387]

The "common denominator" in almost all of the mass shootings is the "zero value" that the shooter ascribes to not only the lives of others, but to their own. If you believe that your life is worthless or meaningless, and that others are solely to blame for that, it certainly facilitates these types of horrific actions. It's ridiculously redundant to say that a happy, well-adjusted person is not going to do insane things like this. You are dealing with tormented people who have no hope in life.

[@peterhardie4151]

Good point, diseases of despair are everywhere.

[@Expatsunleashed]

No shit Sherlock!

[@joshsimpson10]

Sam Harris dishes out nihilism and meaninglessness outside of self delusion Atheism produces despair

[@bboybreezi2417]

​@@joshsimpson10 lol and religion doesn't?? Tell me when was the last time an atheist flew a plane into a building or started a war in the name of Atheism? Never. Because atheism is simply saying i dont believe you because there's no evidence? Why you far right wings harch on about 'facts over feelings' but then go home a pray to your imaginary friend will continue to amaze me. Hypocrisy at its best.

[@jaykay6387]

@@joshsimpson10 Deism is self delusion. I do agree, however, that atheism can and does produce "despair", but then again most people can't "handle" the truth, which gives religion an important purpose for many.

[@ProteinBadger]

Re making ammo expensive, some mass shooters charge credit cards knowing that they won’t be around to pay the bill. And banks have to eat the loss. This enraged me.

[@frozenfenix0]

What? You just said they don't pay the bill, if you make ammo expensive, it literally will affect everyone BUT mass shooters.

[@ProteinBadger]

@@frozenfenix0 exactly. People who don’t expect to be around ain’t afraid of getting many credit cards and buying lots of guns and ammo.

[@Joe_Friday]

Yeah. That idea is stupid and totally against the 2nd amendment.

[@frozenfenix0]

@@ProteinBadger Oh nvm, I thought you we're saying make ammo more expensive, guess I'm not there in the podcast yet.

[@Astarath]

oh no. the poor banks.

[@rolotalks]

American society has become so degenerate, the violence merely a symptom. we are basically a wealthy south africa at this point. the lack of basic morality and values never seems to be addressed.

[@SexyUncleDave]

the violence is the disease if its you or your loved one being shot to death. the solutions to reducing the violence need to include gun control even if you think its "merely" a symptom, we still need to stop the bleeding, regardless to what the cause is AND address the cause(s). we can do both things at once.

[@jongriffin2608]

Oppressive - I feel that and I’m living in the UK. The gun tragedies that America continually has to deal with, makes it a third world country regardless of its many technical advances or progressive ideals. Fundamentally, if your children have to be trained to flee from a shooter, or your schools need armed guards, there is a degree of barbarism in your culture that makes it hard to differentiate between Iran or America. From the European perspective, the U.S. has a pop culture form of psychosis that glorifies violence and vengeance in no less a toxic way than any Jihadist. It is simply a tenet of American society that endorses a certain type of violence from birth, there is a disregard of basic humanity while promoting a visceral form of materialism, power and narcissism. This is a very potent mix, such that one would live in an environment that offers potentially every possible opportunity to realise dreams, and simultaneously the most vacuous experience if you fail to make your mark or are an outsider subjected to continual abuse. Despite having the profile of a free and democratic culture, it is intuitively known that Americas leaders are deeply corrupt and regard the honour of high office more an opportunity to generate personal wealth than to honour the constitution or work to create unity. In this respect it is a highly competitive arena where losing is not an option, there is simply no consolation for failure in a system that ultimately does not value the individual in any real meaningful way. The solution - noone has one, as long as a system is corrupt and as long as there is a justifiable reason for the second amendment, which there is, and as long as home invasions or carjackings are as high stakes as they are, U.S. Citizens are right to want to possess weapons. This is, or should be, a non-partisan issue, but of course it won’t be - rather it is an opportunity to accuse political opponents of murder and supremacy. From my perspective America simply is the advanced version of an African country, it is the bridge from grass hut to skyscraper but with a zealous, superstitious, idealistic tribalism, no different to an Ivory Coast warlord.

[@martinrheaume5393]

Europeans have spent the last 2000 years killing each other in order to endlessly reshape their national boundaries. Last century, you guys started two "Great" wars costing millions of lives. Please let me hear more about how America is a barbaric third world country and Europe is so civilized.

[@occamsblunderbuss7920]

If you sat down and actually went over black on black gun crime data you would come away with a totally new perspective. The Democrat-run media has no interest muddying the waters and alienating the Democrat voter base. You sound like a propagandized fool. The number of innocent black children that are needlessly mowed down puts these school shootings to shame.

[@stephenglover8828]

also from the uk. the Americans have a gun culture, they think it's normal democrats and republicans don't want to get rid of guns no matter even if mass shootings went up 1000%

[@occamsblunderbuss7920]

@@stephenglover8828 I’m from the UK and immigrated here the US. I have guns, it’s the most natural thing in the world. Not only do I feel safe at home, it’s a great sport too. But perhaps most importantly, if you don’t believe the Left wing’s governments aren’t capable of authoritarianism and tyranny, then you haven’t been paying enough attention. If the Democrats try any funny business, they’ll be getting filled full of holes.

[@stephenglover8828]

@@occamsblunderbuss7920 great assessment. But not even close, I'm Thatcher's child and if I was in the US I would definitely be a Republican Gun control, or lack thereof, is a bipartisan thing, both are clueless If there was no gun culture there would be no guns, so you wouldn't need to own a gun to feel safe. But more importantly there wouldn't be mass shootings As for sports remember when that teenage girl lost control of an automatic weapon at the shooting range and shot her instructor. Great sport yeah I've lived in Singapore for 25 years, my daughter can go out in the middle of the city until 3am, she feels totally safe. No need to have a gun. Compare that to dangerous US cities. I'm glad to be living here, cheers

[@hollywooda111]

So the conclusion is do nothing about gun laws but learn to run and move about while being shot at? Gotcha.

[@MichalKaczorowski]

Awful conversation. Two gun owners discussing gun control is laughable.

[@hollywooda111]

@@MichalKaczorowski Yep waste of a hour an a half of my life. Basically:- "Guns are bad this shooting is horrific" "Yeah they are, this is awful" "You gonna give up your gun?" "Nope" ...... "me neither"

[@govindagovindaji4662]

20:33 Tis an example of one of our problems as a society: we think of those killed by school or other mass shootings as the "number of dead". It is difficult to put our arms around the fact that these are the same "number of lives lost" and all the trauma and loss to individual people and families and how these other lives suffer irreparable harm. Egregiously missing always, in all these conversations (by almost everyone) are those wounded ~ some paralyzed even ~ some losing limbs or eyes or faces. Just tragic stuff ~ forever for them.

[@bcarrancho]

As a non-american, this was the weirdest conversation to listen to. The logic around guns in America is crippling.

[@natemendsen1629]

Canada is banning handguns today. Their is a much deeper reason this stuff is happening around the world . Some of you wont know why we are the way we are until its too late .

[@Jay_in_Japan]

European?

[@JosephF.]

As an Australian, I agree. It feels like America is doomed, when the problem of guns is being posited as solve-able with “more guns”. Surely if anything is evident from the police not entering the room, it’s that even armed police are afraid of guns, and by extension that guns really are the problem. Besides if a teacher had a handgun, all a shooter needs to do is shoot first?

[@Conn30Mtenor]

I'm originally from Canada, grew up with guns, enjoy guns and I find American gun culture to be extremely pathological.

[@dieseIboy]

I agree. Canadian, and this whole conversation is totally bizarre.

[@davidlenett8808]

I've thought about it a lot and offer a policy suggestion that is by no means bulletproof (excuse the pun) but it's one that, I believe, could lower the statistical likelihood the owner would carry out a mass shooting event. Anyone 18-21 wishing to purchase an AR-15 or other high capacity weapon (even a handgun) must get a reference/referral from 3 adults age 25 and above. To reduce hesitance, a referring party would not be legally liable should the weapon be used for a mass shooting event, it does however, provide the community some sort of relational voucher, i.e., "Yeah, I know the kid, he's been working in my landscaping business for 2 years. He's nice, reliable, and responsible. I haven't observed him get angry or seen him frustrated or depressed during our working relationship." There could be a series of 8 - 10 questions the referring adult, (who knows the candidate over a period of several months or a year) might check off relating to the candidates character, maturity and mental health. The referral idea is responding directly to a feature or pattern, that is the profile of dangerous mass killing perpetrators often being loners and reclusive types, individuals not likely to be, 'in the mix' or engaged in relationships, healthy socialization activities and some aspect of work or community involvement whereby they could get 3 individuals who know the candidate to vouch for their character.

[@alugificator]

This is one of the best ideas I've heard so far. It won't drastically reduce the issue of overall gun violence in the US, and will be seen by many as a violation of the 2A, but a good idea nonetheless when it comes to mass shootings perpetrated by young males.

[@bleach219]

It's an interesting idea, deny anyone who doesn't have at least 3 friends a gun. Of course, even if the NRA were to be some insane miracle not put every resource at their disposal to destroy this before it could get passed they'd do the next best thing and setup a gun friend referral program so all those loners could call in and get the necessary number of NRA adults to sign off on their purchase, for a fee of course, this is America after all.

[@davidlenett8808]

@@bleach219 no doubt, people will seek to game the policy but I have a conceal carry and I needed to provide 2 'non-related' references in my request form. I also needed a clean record. Could I have manufactured my referrals, maybe? Could I have checked the, 'not convicted of any crime' box on the form if I was convicted, (hoping I wouldn't show up in a database)? Maybe but not likely. As for the, "gun friend referral program", there could be penalties for making fraudulant referral claims and this is where phoning a friend becomes a liability to the lying friend. You're not wrong. People can and do spend time trying to get past or around restrictions but I'm looking for ways to reduce, not eliminate risk. As they say, never let the perfect be the enemy of the good. That said, ain't NOTHING gonna change so maybe we'll comment on the next mass shooting. tick, tock....

[@contactkeithstack]

@@davidlenett8808 that seems like a great idea.

[@RobertMJohnson]

it's not that it's a bad idea, Lenett, it's just that it's not going to solve the problem. look at Chicago and the gun violence. it's INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to purchase a gun in Illinois. i would personally make it more challenging to purchase and own firearms, but that isn't going to stop disenfranchised young men from killing people.

[@meef1610]

Thank you

[@observerone6727]

The unique U.S. mass shooting problem is not going to solve by changing only 1 or 2 things, because it's an extremely complex problem of tens of major factors, involving people's fears, justifications, obsessions, craze, and delusions. No math required: The odds of ever achieving a solution to this is nil. Good luck America.

[@Klayhamn]

there's a similar amount of psychos in the UK or canada, they simply don't have easy unrestricted acted to automatic firearms even in Israel (which is a relatively militaristic society, where every male and even female has a 2-3 year mandatory army service) - you have to get a LICENSE to get a gun, and that in itself is something that prevents a lot of unnecessary gun victims

[@stephenoppl1259]

I am not anti gun, and owned many over the years. I do however question how useful a gun that has been safely locked away is useful during a home invasion. I do belive that the chances are much higher that a gun is part of an accidental shooting rather than used for protection.

[@tman040496tb]

They have quick access safes that open with a finger print.

[@Karynthian]

If you're someone who lives in a place where home invasions are common and you're extensively concerned about self protection at home, I think it's less likely you'll opt for a way to store your gun that takes a lot of time to get it out.

[@Karynthian]

@@sperckensiedoitch that's why it's better to look at it in terms of principle rather than utility, unless you trust lawmakers to always make the most optimal choice.

[@miriamcollinge9162]

The underlying problem is that there are guns in the first place

[@stonemarten1400]

Too many guns in the USA to ever put the genie back into the bottle, like they did in the UK, for example. It means Americans will always have to live with the risk of gun violence, with regulation only tinkering on the margins.

[@RTC1655]

14:10 Like in Scandinavia, for instance? It doesn't happen often but here SH just went off the track.

[@mountaingoattaichi]

Thanks that helped me process that horrific event. 🙏🙏🙏 I needed to hear a rational discussion about this issue.

[@bthomson7770]

Liability for the gun vendor who presumably had NO reasonable suspicion that this monster was going to do something like is the opposite of rational. It's emotionally reactionary nonsense.

[@twntwrs]

@@bthomson7770 approximately as emotionally reactionary nonsense as Americans clinging to their guns and going out to purchase yet more at every inkling The Government Is Coming To Take Them Away®.

[@bandit6272]

@@bthomson7770 True. I was looking for a non true believer here to inject some common sense.

[@hollywooda111]

Thats it, make it about you.

[@mountaingoattaichi]

@@bthomson7770 I don't agree with that. If that is all you got from the discussion your loss. They were just searching for ideas and clearly stated so.

[@Mr_M_History]

Sam Harris - an inspiration to all educational channels

[@bandit6272]

If only he was educated about firearms...

[@bboybreezi2417]

@@bandit6272 He is. He is a gun owner or did you not listen to it and just scroll the comments to spread ya right wing gun loving garbage you guys always spew.

[@kevincloar2443]

You don't have to cut the school down to one door in and one door out, you can have as many doors as you want, just make sure they only open from the inside Law enforcement would have pass keys to get into the building

[@bleach219]

The lengths gun owners expect everyone else to go to in order to accommodate their fetish. Must have been a while since you've been in school, that suggestion would be a nightmare if implemented not to mention who exactly is going to pay for renovating 130k schools? Lol, the people suggesting this nonsense would be the first to vote against an infrastructure bill for it.

[@jlrinc1420]

I really hate when people say there are no solutions when they take any kind of gun control off the table.

[@peterbabicki8252]

The US is a hard one. There are already too many guns in circulation. I'm glad I live here in the UK, but what works here isn't something that could work in the US.

[@slipknnnot]

No one from the US emigrates to the UK. You're only glad you live there because of your ignorance and skewed perspective.

[@LLlap]

How do you feel about knives and immigrants?

[@4x4r974]

I live in Glasgow/ London and I daily worry about getting stabbed when outside lol

[@txdmsk]

In London, April 2019 to March 2020 saw 15,930 knife offences per 100,000 people London and New York has roughly the same population, a similar number of homicides, it's just the Londoners tend to use sharp objects to kill each other. Guns do not make a significant difference. US has far more crime due to the presence of drugs, low IQ demographics and lack of group cohesion.

[@peterbabicki8252]

@@LLlap Knives are pretty useful. I mostly use them for eating food. Immigrants are cool. Hard workers for the most part. My grandparents were immigrants.

[@baka1949]

Sam is questioning the sense of raising this issue in the immediate aftermath of a shooting. But this problem is resolving itself, as there is never a time in the US which is not the immediate aftermath of a shooting.

[@laniefeleski7288]

Right now isn't. All anyone asks for is one day. You can even say right after this day of mourning we are going to talk about it. But one hour after it happens for commentators on major news networks to say 2A people have blood on their hands....that's not a discussion. And anyone who has that sentiment, is absolutely a terrible person. They do this because they don't really have any ideas that would stop this besides a mandator confiscation.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@laniefeleski7288 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@2DXYSU]

Excellent discussion. However, I have these questions which could illuminate:: Why focus on vetting new gun owners when there are already 300,000,000 guns out there? What percentage of mass shooters did not buy their guns? What percentage of gun murderers used guns that were not registered to them? What percentage of existing guns are even registered? Has an NRA member ever been involving in a mass shooting? What percentage of convicted gun murderers have been NRA members? What percent of gun murders involve a violent criminal killing another violent criminal? What would the effect of ending the failed drug war have on overall gun violence ? The answers to the above would I think change the tenor of the discussion.

[@maynardgent6708]

Yes, Sam Harris seemed to think that it was going to be solved in a single podcast, and yet all these important questions were glossed over. I'm finding this increasingly the case both with Sam Harris and Jordan Peterson - they spend so much time waffling and very little time actually letting the interviewee actually talk.

[@Ancor3]

Dude, most of these questions look like they were ripped straight out of an NRA propaganda website that have little to do with the subject at hand. You come across as being incredibly disingenuous

[@EASYTIGER10]

@@Ancor3 I took a different take, and one the NRA would certainly not support! Basically those questions lead you to one conclusion: Changing gun laws is largely ineffective for one simple reason: The USA is drenched in guns. Its like debating how to rainproof your coat when you're 10 feet underwater. The only way to solve the issue is to remove all guns in America with the exception of law enforcement, the military and people with specific licenses and those who keep them in a separate, secure location. Extreme? Its how most industrialised countries (you know, the ones where gun massacres are almost unheard of) operate.

[@BlackJacketJones]

So you don’t even want to know the answers to the questions just because they might have come from the NRA website?

[@samwalters8734]

1. Because every new gun that gets into circulation is a problem. Vetting new owners is basic common sense and should have been happening for a long time already. Just because there’s lots of guns in circulation doesn’t mean you give up implementing checks on the new ones, it’s better late than never. 2. Not sure, although in this instance the school shooting happens with a gun legally registered to a kid who bought 2 ARs weeks after he turned 18. 3. Don’t know that figure, clearly not a significant percentage 4. Again, not sure, but the NRA have directly lobbied politics to enact looser gun regulation and expanded bullshit laws around stand your ground, pushed back on any proposed background checks on purchase etc. They’ve unquestionably made things worse. Just because they didn’t pull the trigger doesn’t mean they haven’t put more ARs into more peoples hands. If there’s no NRA the assault weapons ban that expired after 10 years probably gets reinstated. 5. This is the question that makes me feel like you’re just deflecting? Why does this matter? We’re talking about the school shooting problem which have happened again and again for 20-30 years. I’m pretty sure none of those children were ‘violent criminals’. No other country on earth has the level of mass shootings that the US does. 6. I feel the same with your question here on the war on drugs, yes there’s some overlap in the Venn diagram with drugs and guns, but if we can’t even get basic background checks done in the political arena what makes you think ‘ending the war on drugs’ whatever that means, could be achieved? You mean legalising cocaine, heroin, meth etc right? That’s a complete non-starter in this political climate. If you don’t mind me saying, these questions feel like deflections. At this point it’s not on the gun control side to disprove all the gun lobby’s contrived hypothetical questions, which are designed to muddy the debate and play out the news-cycle, - clearly the current status quo is not working and after every school shooting we do nothing. In every other country where they’ve implemented gun ownership measures the mass shooting / gun homicide rate went down. In the US people die repeatedly from mass shooting done by weapons of war that have no business in the civilian populations hands, enough is enough. I’m not saying gun control would solve everything, but it would have some impact that would save lives. We need background checks, better storage and red flag laws, and an assault weapons ban.

[@rjense9044]

As a practicing physician, a father of two young daughters, a brother of a high-end gun manufacturer, and an avid native Montanan hunter as a youth, I must say that I'm a bit taken back by your general position on this topic: that is, the idea that the general public owning weapons is somehow a good idea. While you make the point that weapons allow for "equalization" when necessary, then proceed to belittle the "NYT" thrust to highlight less gun ownership (a public health priority), and then discuss your personal rationale for gun ownership, this seems to bow to the idea that we should all live in fear. The world can be a horrific place and it can also be a beautiful place. We should strive for a world with less violence, less hate, less bigotry, and less isolation. This ideal would be a world without: any guns, any nuclear bombs, or any wars. So, if that is the ideal, then we should always try to push Policy in that direction. Naivety aside, events such as Uvalde should be used for positive change. While the majority of Americans support universal background checks and a ban on assault weapons, this should be the place to start. An Australian buy-back program should follow. Leave the guns in the hands of law enforcement and the DoD. For the rest who can't seem to live without them, make ownership akin to a pilot's license, and tax ammo as if it were a lethal drug......I truly appreciate your raw intelligence and your ability to deeply dissect complex issues.

[@geico1975]

Since you obviously listened to Sam please explain to me exactly what you mean by "universal background checks." Where do you live if the concept of background checks isn't something that happens on a State level? Furthermore, are you of the opinion that the Federal level is the best place to perform background checks?

[@rodneytrynor7374]

When exit doors close they are locked from entry from the outside. But are always available as an exit from the inside. They should never be propped open for any reason.

[@mdiciaccio87]

I live in Australia and am pretty happy that we are not flooded with firearms here. That said, if I lived in the US I would probably buy one. It seems like you have gone beyond the point of no return over there. It seems rather silly to me that it is easier to get a gun than to get a driving license in many states. Also, the age where people are seen as responsible enough to drink is 21, yet 18 is the gun purchase age. Your country and your business, but that just seems odd the outside looking in

[@acetate909]

How are those covid quarantine camps working out for you guys down there?

[@darkworlddenizen]

@@acetate909 they're just so use to living somewhere where everything want to kill them that they're totally ok with their government wanting to as well.

[@DerrickLytlephoto]

Where is it easier to drive than buy a gun?

[@Jay_in_Japan]

@@acetate909 Exactly. Bet the Chinese wish they had a Second Amendment. (Just remembered a protest sign in Hong Kong saying something to the effect of, "we need a Second Amendment")

[@AlmarWinfield]

I don't own a gun, but I always find it cute when an Australian says they're thankful they don't have tons of guns in their country. The cognitive dissonance to make such a statement is astounding lol. Australians not having guns is exactly how and why their citizens were rounded up and put into camps during COVID (and still now).

[@michaelpadilla141]

About Israel and Finland...one major difference between their societies and ours is that in those countries all men (and women in the case of Israel) have been trained in the usage of firearms through their policies of compulsory enlistment.

[@greggibson33]

Switzerland is absolutely CRAZY about guns and has one of the highest gun ownership per capita in the world. The country has about 2 million privately owned guns in a nation of 8.3 million people...... Mass Shootings?...... Nope.... One 21 years ago. (USA averages more than one per day). Citizens feel oppressed by the gun laws?.... Nope..... Sam, you TOTALLY don't get it.

[@HandgunSafe]

The reason I created my channel is the issue of handguns. Handguns are the last guns anyone wants to ban, while they are involved in most shootings. Also, most handguns used in homicides are stolen guns.

[@Jaylade]

URL?

[@HandgunSafe]

@@Jaylade Just click on my profile icon above, or on the name Handgun Safe Research beside it. They are both active links to my channel.

[@jamtaco2667]

This podcast goes great with the "Short Change Hero" song

[@jazzstringman9860]

It’s unfortunate that we live in a world where we have to debate whether kids should run or shelter in place in the case of an active shooter. I wish we never had to debate about this evil worst case scenario.

[@davidcoleman2796]

It's not the world . Its America !

[@darillus1]

leave the rest of the world out of this! , this only happens in America!

[@slipknnnot]

@@darillus1 this happens everywhere in the world, especially in third world countries but you don't hear about it on CNN because it doesn't drive the agenda

[@genericusername8337]

@@davidcoleman2796 For someone born in the US, their nation is the center of the milky way galaxy. You should be used to them talking like this at this point.

[@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279]

@@mikekane2492 yes but every other country did something about it first time. So the tragedy hasn't happened again. America ring hands and pray.

[@robinhood20253]

I think we need to move the purchase age to 21 or higher. Also the first firearm purchase is limited to low caliber single fire weapons then a step system allowing responsible law abiding gun owners to graduate to more lethal weapons over time. Registrations and a voluntary buyback.

[@greentransmission]

Yes, this!

[@collegewifi5024]

nice an actual comment putting forward a solution. Instead of just complaining about the other side and making sweeping statements.

[@mrburton8842]

Perfect

[@ianl5882]

I like this!

[@fguocokgyloeu4817]

I disagree, but this is a much better idea than the 'ban it' crowd has come up with in 30 years.

[@CuriousPlumber88]

Ban all guns. Adults are grown children. Ban all guns.

[@radscorpion8]

By the way, beautiful picture on today's podcast. I'm still listening but, I hope they discuss where compromise can be found between the parties. Specifically I am curious about providing better security for schools, whether its law enforcement on-site, or unbreachable locked doors requiring authentication before entry? The gun debate can continue, but when it comes to saving lives, especially children's lives, I don't know why both parties can't come together and pass a 50 billion dollar bill to reinforce the nation's schools. I am sure that in Uvalde, had they used some of these security features many lives could have been saved.

[@soulfuzz368]

This will come off as really cold but that seems like a really serious waste of 50 billion dollars. The amount of lives you can save with that money in other ways is exponentially higher.

[@radscorpion8]

@@soulfuzz368 Oh well, if that's true, then by all means we can redirect the funding. I actually just guessed the figure I don't know what it actually would be. But it would be nice to hear some discussion about it

[@henrytep8884]

There is discussion, it’s called common sense gun laws. It’s called red flag laws, it’s reinforcing our mental health institutions. You choose not to listen, that’s your problem. We should increase the age of gun ownership and license to 21 or 25. It’s not that hard.

[@soulfuzz368]

@@henrytep8884 what does reinforcing mental health institutions mean specifically? Seems sort of like a platitude to me to be honest.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@soulfuzz368 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@dystopiaeatsmoney]

The systems we have in place that “run” society are what is creating this situation. It high time we examined the very systems themselves.

[@lapitop4206]

👃

[@mattturner5429]

Can you expand on that?

[@dystopiaeatsmoney]

@@mattturner5429. I think the best place to understand what I’m talking about is the “Revolution Now” podcast with Peter Joseph. You can find it on KZbin.

[@Daniel-qy9mb]

I’m a gun toting conservative and I approve this nuanced podcast.

[@MannElite]

Hardly, I've heard "Make owning a gun like getting a pilots license" "make gun store owners or clerks accountable for the crimes of the customers" "release the info of the store owner that sold the gun to the most recent shooter" "make ammo much more expensive".... I've heard 0 solutions that address any alternatives other than infringing on 2nd Amendment, they quickly glossed over the possibility of adding extra school officers as being "too prison like", never brought up the thought of allowing willing school staff to conceal carry, although im not all the way done yet I'm sure this gets worse....

[@josesbox9555]

Gun toting left of the fence. Great podcast. Riddle of the gun was very good too.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@josesbox9555 I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@bigniftydude]

@@josesbox9555 we're gonna be ok

[@joycetreulieb3195]

Me too! I’m a gun enthusiast competition shooter! I was afraid to listen thinking it would be all ban all guns! Was pleasantly surprised!

[@gingrai00]

~43:00 Two doors in every classroom with one leading into the classroom and one leading outside from the classroom would make it very easy for people to not get stuck in a room. I agree that the single point of entry suggestion is probably not a good one. Oh yeah… The doors leading outside should not allow people to get into the classroom from the outside. Exit only.

[@hyperretroactivehyperretro5992]

I pray for the people that had to see that scene. My mind cant handle thinking about it. No way I can handle seeing it.

[@neverhero3215]

It’s just so unfortunate that the United States is the only country in world with video games and social isolation. Lots of countries have more guns than people, so certainly that’s not the problem. Definite it’s just those darn video games and social isolation from the pandemic that only happened here.

[@nosajason]

Right on my dude.

[@MrWokyman]

"No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"

[@DocnoXXX]

14:00 This is the first time I've heard Sam being irrational. I've lived in Australia, Canada, and Singapore and have never felt I needed to worry about a 'big guy' wanting to attack me in my house. Never felt I *needed* a gun. I call that freedom. The only person I know who was killed in their house by a gun was a workmate in Canada. It was his gun. His wife pulled the trigger. In fact, he was the only person I know who ever owned a gun. Didn't work out for him. That Sam can rationalise having a gun because 'otherwise the big guys win' just shows how irrational US gun culture is and how impossible it will be to change it...

[@jamesp3902]

America's drug problem drives a significant portion of America's gun violence. Chicago gang violence for example. My guess is the countries you listed do not have warning signs like this: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gpPIqnujjMeEoNU

[@CuriousGeorgio59]

You should read some Orwell

[@alexanderlindsey4066]

Yes home invasion only occurs in the US

[@sonusabir12]

Same feeling, I had huge respect for Harris until I heard him say that.

[@endercetiner4832]

Fully agree except for me it's not th first time Sam Harris surprises me with his irrationality. His comments on world politics were similarly senseless. I remember thinking "wow, this guy has no idea about the subject". I guess you can't spend so much time on mindfulness etc. and at the same time collect a proper understanding of the world around.

[@ophiraverbuch6285]

Regarding the discussion about Israel: there are a lot of guns, but they are carried by military and police patrolling the streets. Recently, it's been easier for citizens to get gun permits, but it is still much easier in states like Texas and I would guess the per-capita number of weapons owned by citizens is lower in Israel by at least an order of magnitude. One thing that makes the security challenge in Israel simpler is that most of the violence occurs in sensitive areas (such as the Muslim quarter in the old city of Jerusalem). Another factor is that the source of the violence is contained to that second one Sam mentioned, of ideological murderousness. And even if these people are doing something despicable, they are trying to some extent to appeal to a general public, of non-murderous people, so they would usually have some boundaries, such as not trying to shoot up schools or hospitals. Yet another simplifying factor is that the violence is perpetrated predominantly by Arabs who are easy to identify from a simple verbal exchange, and they are usually more seriously frisked and watched. But another thing to realize about Israel is that public places that are densely crowded ARE like fortresses, including schools and hospitals. A lot of schools are surrounded by high fences and have a single entry point, with an armed security guard standing there. Hospitals are even more heavily guarded, and malls often are too. In general, with a lot of experience from multiple-casualty events, and over the course of decades, the Israeli society has developed a very strong and wise and successful security philosophy (and I say that even though I disdain the militarism in this society, which is quite related).

[@halleffect5439]

The USA killed more muslims than the other way round. Its not a surprise that a warloving nation has domestic violence. Lets talk Klartext here: America is far worse in violence, murder and rape than all european countries and most islamic countries, with the exception of russia. So your solution is higher walls, police everywhere and so on. In europe we dont need walls and overpolicing. It just shows the collapse of social order this countries created (mostly on purpose). Wise would be to address mental health problems in the USA. And its very naive to compare the USA to the Israel and Palestine conflict, since Israel occpies another country. You cant even address the far right ideology which made this happen in the first place. Basicly neonazis talking points lead to the most recent shotings. Why not address this? But you are talking about arabs. Israelic jews dont care about neonazis anymore...

[@mbburry4759]

That didn't age well, sounds like it'll be easier for israelis to own personal firearms now

[@ophiraverbuch6285]

​@@mbburry4759 Yeah, I think it's safe to say we were all pretty shocked. There was a widely held misconception about the capabilities and willingness-to-commit-horror of Hamas

[@jetsdisciple3688]

I'm from the UK so this is an outsider's perspective. I feel it's ridiculous to say that the gun salesperson should take any responsibility or liability for what their customers do with their purchases. They are not psychologists who could determine someone's intentions or mental wellbeing in a fifteen minute conversation (that would be a very talented psychologist anyway). Surely whatever gun licencing agency exists should take that type of responsibility and employ psychologists for that reason. I feel there are only two solutions to this problem. Firstly, you train and arm teachers. Far from an ideal solution. Or secondly, you secure school campuses so, as Sam mentions, they are comparable to prisons in their levels of security.

[@andrewm4767]

Listen to the podcast again

[@oliverschneider7489]

Coming from the UK, with our clearly different culture for these things, I take issue with the opening premise: That the little guy needs guns to protect himself/herself from the big bully, and that 911 is ineffective. The concept that I might so provoke someone larger than myself that they will want to beat me to death (and therefore my shooting him is a commensurate response) or that lawlessness is at such a high level that you might just get assaulted and robbed on every street corner seems flawed.

[@user-du1uk7lt8j]

I mean it might be hard for you to believe but there are many stats and examples that suggest otherwise

[@dellwright1407]

@@user-du1uk7lt8j In the USA you need guns... to protect yourself from the other people with guns. We don't need guns in the UK as the other people don't have guns either. The main stat to bear in mind is that the murder rate (per capita) in the USA is 10X what it is in the UK. Guns literally make things 10X worse.

[@richardbantin9900]

Your own analysis is hopelessly flawed. It isn't about provoking someone or being robbed on the street. The example given is someone entering your home to burglarise/home invasion etc. Sam Harris gets death threats. I don't blame him for wanting a firearm given, if people enter his home with the intention to harm him, that could be his only defence

[@dellwright1407]

@@richardbantin9900 If a country like the USA is flooded with more guns than people then it becomes a more violent society and people naturally feel unsafe. So they buy yet more guns. In Europe we don't have the country flooded with guns in the first place so people feel safer. In America because the guns are already there, the fear is there so the antidote for Sam is to buy a gun to protect himself against a hypothetical home invader. The only down side is the high murder rate, increase suicide rates, school shootings etc in the USA. But it's a price Americans seem willing to pay. In Europe we wouldn't want the school shootings or the high murder rates so we restrict access to guns.

[@sonusabir12]

Absolutely, finally a sensible comment. I'm from India, I'm shocked to see an intellectual like Sam Harris supporting guns for defense. Why can't the people of US understand that if guns are altogether banned, nobody needs it, neither for defense or offense.

[@robinhood20253]

Please take a moment to remember those innocent children who are sacrificed in defense of the 2nd amendment.

[@pdcdesign9632]

Bravo, you win the internet today !!!! I hope you were being sarcastic.

[@MrCmon113]

If that's so, it's more than worth it. That's pretty much the point of the rule of law, the point of a constitution, the point of the separation of powers, the point of liberal democracy as a whole: you don't just overthrow everything bcs people died and you're mad. You don't build a totalitarian state just bcs you think it's safer. You don't give up fundamental freedoms to save lives. Liberal democracy among other things means that there are more important things than mere survival.

[@robinhood20253]

@@MrCmon113 if they were your children I bet you would feel different

[@anthonygarciaguitar]

Frustrating and confusing listening and watching from Australia. We just don’t understand how and why in the 21st-century guns are allowed to proliferate throughout society. All cultures have cultural problems and this is one of America’s.

[@marcevan1141]

I am American and I am in 100% agreement with you

[@Moriningland]

I’m American and I agree. I think our society is finished

[@lifeoflennie2443]

They and us have the same CULTURAL problem. The same one throughout most of the West, culminating soon after 30 years of decline. When it comes to guns though, it's apples and oranges and no point comparing the two. The underlying reasons for the resulting large pool of guns in America are so foundational to the American spirit , they will never give them up and are less and less likely to as the cultural decline continues. And they certainly won't under a prevailing sentiment of defunding the police and going soft of crime.

[@user-du1uk7lt8j]

What's unique about this century that makes the need for self defense, using the arm of the day, obsolete? On a personal level, as Sam observed, a firearm equalizes many situations otherwise strong and aggressive men impose thier will. For larger scale external threat, see Ukraine.. large scale internal threat; I would guess a significant portion of the US left believes former president Trump was just one phone call or insurrection away from becoming a dictator.. what was their plan if that happened? Protesting? As an Aussy, you're Government went nearly tyrannical using Covid as an excuse.. what was the plan if things had turned out differently? Just swim to a free state?

[@RobertMJohnson]

So, Garcia. What should the people of the Ukraine have done and do/continue to do ? should they have turned in 100% of their firearms and then continue to reject firearms during the Russian invasion and what should they do after? give up all their firearms?

[@wytchend]

Hi Sam, look at interviewing John Correia please. Would be interesting

[@Trialsfan100]

“The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to ensure he grew up in a loving family within a healthy society which collectively took care of his needs and provide him with the tools to succeed, so he never became a bad guy” You know this to be true sam, why didn’t you take that angle at all?

[@TheDmonet]

Because it's unrealistic to expect society to be responsible for every child that is born into it. Those who are not born psychopaths or turned into sociopaths need to be protected from those who are, first and foremost.

[@brycep2346]

Not sure if serious

[@dnbjedi]

I don’t know that the narrative of a loving family and healthy society is going to make anyone feel better because we all needed that apparently. On a macro level, yeah, this is the conversation we should be Having. However I would levy accusations at our culture. We have to find a top down way of fixing this by investigating the psychology that makes these people. Jordan and Warren Farrell go into this deeply in his latest podcast. But nobody has any taste for confronting the problem head on. It’s always ‘the parents’, ‘the guns’ ‘the drugs’. Western Society is making entitled , spoiled, self obsessed, petulant people. Is it Better off to just let nature deal with it? because nothing short of Jesus Christ in the flesh is going to make people listen.

[@johnd.obrien6838]

@@dnbjedi "Trying to take care of everyone has got us here…" Um, we have *barely* even tried. _Barely._

[@dnbjedi]

@@johnd.obrien6838I appreciate that point, and I had to edit my reply…. I think my point was that trying to take care of everyone was ineffectual in that it spreads everything so thin. Sort of like the equity vs equality argument. Taking care of everyone would be equity but ensuring everyone has a chance at success is equality. Maybe that’s what I meant…

[@CathyS_Bx]

I'll keep listening--but I do not agree that hand guns would be just as deadly as the ARs in these mass shooting situations. Think about it. Shooting a hand gun requires more skill. It means that the shooter will have to aim carefully while looking his victims in the eye. It's so much more personal. Non-assault-weapons would be a huge disincentive to these pathetic criminals.

[@all_bets_on_Ganesh]

To your point about looking them in the eye, if someone is already at that point, you might think there is no hope left, but i remember a Student at columbine made eye contact with one of the shooters, and he for whatever reason he didnt kill her and just moved on.

[@ForOrAgainstUs]

In school shootings, teachers and students shelter in place in classrooms. That leaves them as sitting ducks for when the shooter breaks in. The shooter isn't opening the door, walking away from the door so it's "less personal" and then firing at their victims. They are killing them inside of a room. It takes zero skill to walk up to someone terrified of dying and shoot them in the head, rifle or handgun. If you want to talk about the impersonal killing, you're talking about long-range sniping, which snipers do report have less of an impact psychologically on them. That's not what's happening in school shootings.

[@CuriousPlumber88]

Ban all doors. Ban all loneliness. Ban all gun control.

[@holyninjachicken9283]

Two religious people talking about how great their religion is. .. The problem of your police is that they have to face people with guns.

[@schoppepetzer9267]

Cheers from Switzerland. Lots of guns here, yet no mass shootings or gun violence at a scale occuring in the US.

[@thatpointinlife]

Because you don't have anything like a 2nd Amendment, and your firearms privileges can be revoked at any time, even because of unpaid traffic tickets, and you need a special license to obtain semi-automatic firearms capable of accepting detachable magazines . Also, all of your guns, even air rifles, are registered, and virtually NOBODY is allowed to carry a firearm in public, and there are stiff penalties for doing so.

[@schoppepetzer9267]

@@thatpointinlife As discussed in this podcast, the shooter in Uvalde acquired his guns legally. Checks and requirements identical to Switzerland would not have prevented this. I own several semi-automatic firearms with high capacity mags. Obtaining the purchase permit wasn't significantly more challenging than compared to the US.

[@thatpointinlife]

@@schoppepetzer9267, the Uvalde shooter would NOT have been able to buy an AR-15 in Switzerland. If you actually lived in Switzerland you would know this.

[@schoppepetzer9267]

@@thatpointinlife Why would the Swiss authorities have denied the Uvalde shooter his purchase permit? Maybe I overlooked something but I see no rejection criteria.

[@Alnivol666]

@@thatpointinlife Or maybe it is US society that creates ignored angry men, a thing that does not happen in Switzerland. Let's not act like the last decades have not been about putting men down and telling them how bad they are. I am surprised we don't have more shootings.

[@fenderOCG]

The key issue is why does Sam feel he needs a gun? Why does the US have such high crime and incarceration rates? Surely the two are related

[@MichalKaczorowski]

There is twice as many guns as US citizens...

[@godisbollocks]

Harris has slandered Islam as hard or harder than any other atheist writer that I'm aware of. With that comes the death threats.

[@larymcfart4034]

What if he just wants a gun. By crime, what are you talking about that is substancially diffrent from other nations both in lower and upper class brackets.

[@tonycatman]

He feels he needs a gun because he has written a number of anti-Islamic articles and books, and has had credible death threats, at a time when Islamic terrorism was common. The US doesn't have particularly high crime rates, when considered on a World scale. The incarceration rates have something to do with the unsuitability of the American system. There are a percentage of people who cannot operate within the Western system, and in other Western countries, the government takes care of them. It seems that most Americans believe that they run a system in which anyone can succeed if they try, which is delusional.

[@Jeremy-mc2ut]

Asked and answered if you actually listen to the episode.

[@riblets1968]

Thank you for holding a calm, rational, attempt to converse about this difficult and controversial topic. We need more of this on a range of topics, without devolving into the political realm as all too often happens.

[@laniefeleski7288]

I know you can't give me a summary. But were statistics the focal point of all arguments - e.g. rifles amounting to 450 annual deaths vs 600 from hand to hand combat. 500,000 to 3 million defensive uses of firearms. 61% of gun deaths are suicides. Liberty vs safety.

[@vincentcossell9963]

I think discussion of politics is not the issue, it's just the attitude and reactions to that. Keep it mature.

[@CarsonHughes85]

@@vincentcossell9963 Are you interested in doing youtube panel debates?

[@guitarsandbongos]

There are doors that easily open from inside, even just by pushing a bar, that can't open from the outside (See The Design of Everyday Things for discussion of that - they are good when there's a kind of a stampede or smoke making it hard to find handle, you just lean on the door). So you could have both easy escape and less chance of a shooter entering from a side/back door.

[@CarsonHughes85]

I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@BoRisMc]

I grew up in Spain and never for a single instance would it occur to me that a so called bad guy with a gun would try and kill me or people around me. I remember growing up not quite getting why all the content I would watch on tv (we are talking late 80’s here) was always very much around people carrying a thing that I hadn’t ever seen in the real world or knew of anyone that had. Of course most if not all of this content came from the US, and to overcome the cognitive dissonance, I ended up somehow wrapping my mind around the idea that in some distant place in the world people, indeed, would for some reason carry these things (and also that the so called action movies would be all about this totem-like object). We had, though, an ongoing terrorism problem that got particularly bad during the late 80’s and the early 90’s. As bad as the problem was (and it was pretty bad indeed), I don’t remember the idea of having a bunch of armed good guys defeat an organized terrorist group being given much credibility, if any. On that note, there was a related case of so called state terrorism, where some shady agents would try an Dredd judge some suspected terrorists, but the whole plot got out of hand when it was proven that some innocent people got collateral damage labeled as a consequence. Perhaps it was just sheer propaganda, but the main idea was that society at large would only spouse the rule of law as the way to deal with violence (rule of law and yes, political concessions). In the early 2000’s the aforementioned terrorist group went out of business without much in the way of good guys with guns taking them out as the catalyst of their dissolution…On the flip side, anybody that has watched Narcos knows what a bunch of good guys with guns (los pepes) can end up doing for society. Anyway why do I even write this, peace.

[@natemendsen1629]

I live in America and I dont worry either. We have 350 million people here and the national news makes shit seem like it happens all the time everywhere,It doesn't.

[@BoRisMc]

@@natemendsen1629 happy to hear and good for you. I know, as a father myself, I'd be somewhat concerned by the recent developments, but everybody is different, for sure.

[@natemendsen1629]

@@BoRisMc Im a father too with school age children .The chances are better winning the lotto .Its just perspective.Hell they have a far better chance of getting run over with how some traffic is in places .Im just saying America is a huge place and shit is always happening that could appall the rest of the world if we magnified it. Of course some nut killing 20 kids is pretty dramatic and you cant ignore it.But the real gun problems are in large cities . Some of those places I wont go anymore.The funny thing is they dont talk about that on a national scale .

[@Jay_in_Japan]

@@natemendsen1629 Not to mention that some places with very unrestrictive gun laws- like Vermont/ New Hampshire- also have low violent crime. But no one mentions that.

[@BoRisMc]

@@Jay_in_Japan yeah well, it's definitely a multifaceted problem. But again, I guess we'll never have a full grasp of each other's perspectives in so far as I have not lived in a gun populated society and you have not lived in a virtual gun-free one. I can say tho, to us in Spain this issue seems as 'weird', culturally distant, and somewhat unnecessary as bullfighting may feel to the average American.

[@thousandaireradio3199]

You solved the problem in the very beginning. It is insignificant if you look at the numbers and the media should stop politicizing it.

[@peopletok5502]

I don’t think it’s about the rarity but rather an intimidation factor provided by precautionary procedures/installations. If they know before hand it won’t be “successful” maybe that will deter those demented individuals from choosing a school.

[@radishpineapple74]

The comparison between Israel and Finland as being cultures with a high number of guns is a bit ridiculous. The US has about 120 guns per 100 people, while Finland has about 32, and Israel just 7.

[@ee9466]

True, but a more useful number is gun ownership per 100 people. I’ve known individuals that have several firearms but I don’t think that’s indicative of the norm and it would throw off any useful rato to consider.

[@Jaylade]

Have you ever been to Israel lol..?

[@larymcfart4034]

@@Jaylade I have when I was in the military. Everyone has to go through military service, as well as school kids getting trained with firearms. I remember when I was touring Jerusalem there was a field trip of middle school or high school looking Israeli kids with mag less M4's on there backs. I didnt ask, but it looked like they get trained to understand firearms early on.

[@larymcfart4034]

To be fair Israel is much younger than the US. Plus guns as a whole is a wide range from antiques, black powder and muzzle loaders all the way to todays High resolution manufacturing capabilities.

[@RobertMJohnson]

the statistic that should worry us is illegal guns on the street per city and access to guns by adolescent and young, angry men. it doesn't matter that millions of law abiding citizens might own 2-20 guns each. usually those guns are under lock and key.

[@DennisMoore664]

While I don't think that making the private ownership of ammunition prohibitively expensive is part of the solution (apparently I needed to specify that earlier) I do want to give credit to Mr Wood for pointing out at 59:30 that Chris Rock presented the idea as part of his comedy special in 1999 "Bigger and Blacker" - it was only $5,000 a bullet but it's still a funny bit.

[@idiotidiot5821]

One Federal law Id like to see imposed is absolutely mandatory to report a gun theft. Amazingly, it is NOT currently a law. Not even in most states! When only 3 percent of legal adults own 50% of America's gun and ammo stockpile that's a pretty heavy oversight. The amount of guns stolen per year and amount of stolen guns used to commit violent crimes is absolutely staggering in comparison to mass shootings.

[@natekigo3660]

I've only heard the expensive ammo idea from Chris ROck.

[@Euderos91]

Please remember about the aspect of concealment for handguns. Fear of the unknown. I live safely in the UK, but I would be horrified going outside knowing (not knowing) that a every single person I pass on a street can have weapon on him/her... My humble solution for a gun laws? Handguns: Banned due to small size and how easy it is to conceal them (fear factor is the reason after every shooting gun sales skyrockets) Shotguns; (big, easy to use for adults, difficult for children, limited ammo and range); Allowed for protection and for hunting (usually birds), Assault rifles, SMG's: Banned; Bolt action rifles: Allowed for protection and hunters (if you really call yourself a hunter you kill an animal with a single shot). Rifles are big, heavy and have limited ammunition in the clip. Tough compromise but as long as nobody is happy I think it's a good one.

[@BookerGrimm1]

Sensible answer that deserves many more up votes.

[@larymcfart4034]

Or they can move over to your side of the pond or move to Canada. Plus yall are losing your ability to have cultural freedom of speech for fear of offending people. I think yall would do well to find a country that prescribes to your way of doing buisness. I'll stick it out right here under the constitution and the bill of rights. Yall can go play big brother else where.

[@Euderos91]

@@larymcfart4034 Well, I respect your opinion :)

[@michaelpadilla141]

OPEN QUESTION: They discuss how it can make sense to keep a firearm in the house responsibly by "religiously" keeping it safely kept in a safe, etc. But if one does this, how the heck is that firearm going to be useful if it's ever really needed (e.g. in a breaking and entering situation)? Is the theory that one's going to have the time and opportunity to go to the gun safe, fiddle with the lock, etc. quickly enough for it to make a difference? Seems like a fantasy. I'm wondering what the argument here is to how one can both be "religiosly" responsible in how it's stored but also have it be sufficiently readily available....

[@ForOrAgainstUs]

Also, it's an ex post facto charge, not a preventative. If someone leaves a gun out and a kid gets it and shoots up a school, the parent can be held liable. That's all it would do. It wouldn't stop the shooting.

[@sumguysr]

Shelter in place exists because many threats begin outside the school. Until the building is actually breached shelter in place is the safest choice. If we're actually going to tell kids to break windows and run we should really establish places to run to.

[@asdf-bm4df]

perfect

[@alicelarsson165]

My country, Sweden, now has the highest amount of deadly shootings per citizens in Europe. But making it more difficult for hunters etc to buy legal rifles wouldn't change anything, since virtually all of the shootings are committed with already totally illegal weapons, like AK-47s, hand grenades and junk smuggled from eastern Europe.

[@joshr920]

The vast majority of illegal guns in the US were once legal. Guns used in crimes generally aren’t being smuggled over the border into the US or illegally manufactured so stronger laws would help stop some guns becoming illegal guns. Sweden had 46 gun related murders in 2021. In a country of 10 million that’s still insanely small amount. Sweden might have the highest gun murder rate in Western Europe but that says more about how few gun murders there are in other Western European countries.

[@alicelarsson165]

@@joshr920 Yes, the conditions are probably very different over in the Wild West. For us tho it feels like we have an 'insanely large' amount of shootings now, relatively to what we have been used to. We have shootings almost everyday, and the events that has now become just weekly forgettable news would have been the big national news of a whole decade back in my days.

[@alicelarsson165]

@@justanothermind4972 I don't think average swedes particularly desire more guns to defend themselves. But we desperately need more police to defeat the criminal organizations. The shootings are primarily between criminal gangs, mostly confined to ghetos of the largest cities, but frequently innocent bypassers and children etc become collateral damage.

[@RobertMJohnson]

that would be UKRAINE right now but y'all European don't really like to deal in facts on your continent.

[@alicelarsson165]

​@@RobertMJohnson Yes! I thoguht so too. Ukraine definitely has a lot of shooting now... I wonder if we just have the most shootings in the "EU" actually, but our regime media has just told us "Europe".

[@nickgehmanproductions]

Some analysis of judiciary rulings nullifying police responsibility to protect people who are not in the state’s custody from violent harm - even ongoing violence being witnessed by law enforcement officers - should have been discussed. Police are not required, by law, to protect people. That seems relevant to me, Sam.

[@SisyphusDungball]

Good point, I'd like to hear more discussion of this as well.

[@CarsonHughes85]

Nicholas, I started a new-ish KZbin channel on politics and morals. Would you be interested in being a guest over zoom?

[@br1ghtFlame]

The best that the US can hope for is to slowly raise the barrier to entry to gun ownership. The more guns you want (or if you want an assualt rifle), the harder it should be - more psychological screening and higher levels of scrutiny. Eventually make it at least as difficult as it is to get a car license.

[@exmcgee1647]

It's already much more difficult to get than a driving license. You take one test for the license you take one driving test and you continue to renew it through the mail. The federal background check checks every state and federal and military agency for infractions of the law. Also there is no psychological evaluation for driving tests or firearms your comparison to driving licenses is a non sequitur

[@fooanonymous]

Did you miss, or do you not agree with, the part of this podcast where they discuss that "assault rifles" are no more lethal at close range than handguns?

[@Nordap702]

40ish minute mark. A fire drill approach could create a scenario were the crowded hallways make for a much higher casualty rate. Also, if not orderly, might create injuries and even casualties. Not sure about this approach.

[@juanReflex37]

Excelente Sam Harris

[@ticklefights]

I believe you misunderstand the Ted Cruz idea... It's not one point of entry/exit, its one point of entry and many points of exit. Very hard to get in, very easy to get out. Like a movie theatre with emergency exits that only open from the inside (with alarms) and a box office that you have to go through to get in.

[@KennyFlagg]

Middle school teacher and pistol competitor here. We can’t disproportionately heighten costs for people to have access to what Sam recognizes is a right people should be able to exercise responsibly

[@Jaylade]

why...?

[@migarsormrapophis2755]

@@Jaylade because we shouldn't violate people's human rights

[@KennyFlagg]

@@Jaylade same reason minimum wage should be livable and healthcare universal.

[@MrCmon113]

Actually that is perfect, because it bothers regular gun owners, especially those practicing and shooting as a sport and it does absolutely nothing to bother spree killers, who can further be instrumentalized to take people's guns away.

[@ian08wang]

From someone from Australia with universal healthcare and generally no guns in the community, I really feel sorry for the Americans who can't see the alternatives - similar to the citizens in China who can't see the point of having democracy. Saddly even Sam Harris is trapped in this narrative, ignoring the basic human rights - safe and healthy living.

[@larymcfart4034]

Queensland showed us that chinese state politics is making its way to a land down under. As for guns I'll keep mine and you can take those people that don't want them and feel thaey should amend the constitution so no one else can have guns.

[@spambone]

You don't have the fatalism we Yanks do about actually having the government come together to do something. I'm 50, and for as long as I've been politically conscious at all, figure starting around 1982 or so, no one would entertain the notion that we could amend the Constitution at all. The 2nd Amendment is harder to change than Catholic dogma, and if you give 30% of the population veto power on advancement, there simply won't be advancement.

[@appoNo1]

So true

[@Jay_in_Japan]

Those Chinese citizens would have a better chance at democracy with guns. Mao was right when he said 'power comes from the barrel of a gun'. Reminds me of a protest sign I saw in Hong Kong saying "we need a Second Amendment"

[@bboybreezi2417]

@@spambone Yeah because we understand its a DEMOCRACY for a reason. Why have a democracy and vote people in when you can't trust them unless you have a gun to kill them. What kind of paranoid backwards society do you live in? If you can't trust your government on that level and build a healthy realtionship then how do expect anything good to come to you when your system is run by fear. Living in fear is not freedom its control. And why do you guys not have compulsory voting like us in Australia? How can trust your leaders when not even the whole country has voted? Thats just dumb.