GW's New Direction! We are excited!

[@ShockArcl1te]

Never forget that old saying: Hope for the best, *plan for the worst.*

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Ayyyo shock why you kill my high man - Cal

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

You know...I mentioned this during the audio but it was removed for posterity ~Sunny

[@Jfk2Mr]

I'm not saying it's a bad thing that this was announced, but I find interesting that it was released about half a year after Poorhammer guys released beta of their Horde Mode - enough time to write rules and go through printing pipeline. As for "miniature agnostic" - I'm pretty sure that they mean "you can use every model, provided they are GW plastic/resin/metal" and said "agnostic" is "it doesn't matter if that's a SoB, dorf or animated armour, you can use all of them", just like mentioned Horde Mode for the horde "faction"

[@WarpRonin781]

Never again. Over priced dumbed down list building, cookie cutter unit options. No thank you.

[@In_Purple_Clad]

Model agnostic... what GW probably meant: "Sure, you can use necromunda models and old GW legends models in a game of Kill Team. We'll give generic 'one-size fits all' rules for all the characteristics and weapon profiles that look similar. A craftworld elf is the same as a dark elf is the same as a really fast human, etc, etc." What new players will actually hear: "Wait, so I can use my Star Wars Shatterpoint models, OBR models, and Ravaged Star Models in an official game set in 40k!?!? It's truly model agnostic!?!? Yippeeeee!!! Sweet!!! Imma go buy all the things made by everyone and get super hyped about it all and make cross-over multi-universe fanfiction to explain why Ewoks are on a space hulk riding lizardmen dinosaurs, etc, etc" 😋 Something tells me GW 'should' tap into the latter... but will actually be flabbergasted and go "no no no we meant the 1st option" 😋

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I would agree that's why we focused on the legends stuff and hope to push in that direction - Cal

[@Naddabeht]

Co-op kill teams sounds like a fun way to do Dadhammer with my kids. I’m getting excited about it, and glad others are as well.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Dad hammer sounds amazing I am stealing that ☺️ - Cal

[@WitekStraus]

Already bought intercessors for my kids xD seeing how elites might become 5-strong, a box could be easily split between 🎉

[@Nallenbot]

Am I hearing this right? Can I play Kill Team with my Necromunda Gang???

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Correct... As the bad guys, in co-op - Cal

[@rutgaurxi7314]

First edition Necro gang...

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yes so long as they are bad guys - Cal

[@rutgaurxi7314]

Like Sergio's Dollars trilogy, there are no good guys in 40K...

[@Fezzik312]

I played a solo game of Kill Team the other day using models from [redacted] as enemies. After 7 minutes of playing, an SAS unit in full Praetorian Guard cosplay kicked down my door, shot my dog and broke my jaw. But the worst part is since one of my operatives wasn’t fully painted, they also docked the points I had scored so far so I didn’t even win the game!

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Man that painted rule is a killer - Cal

[@JasonWood-h1w]

Love the positivity. Best part about Killteam is the freedom to try new paint schemes because you are only painting a squad. Just need perseverance to get through the ugly phase.

[@speaktome4778]

Have GW ever done market research into the percentage of their customer base who hold back on buying models because they're afraid they'll get refreshed or go to legends by the end of the edition? Because I sure see a lot of it on social media. I know it doesn't really matter for casual games but with such a focus on competitive play from GW and coming in as a new player with no context about legends it just feels discouraging to pick up old models even if you like them. But yeah it makes me hopeful that they'll start to change their ways even if it's baby steps. Thanks for covering this!

[@rutgaurxi7314]

Games Workshop, market research? I don't think they've ever heard of a such a concept.

[@OptimusMonk01]

@@rutgaurxi7314 came here to say that lol

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Glad you enjoyed the episode. GW has done market research but I am not sure if they have paid an outside agency? - Cal

[@Gogsnik]

It's what I liked about Blackstone Fortress, that I could play it on my own, I thought that was a pretty neat feature.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah I am a bit in two minds about solo play but I decided that its better than playing endless hours of fortnite or LoL - Cal

[@Gogsnik]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow It's handy for me since I have no one to play against, not that I do much gaming anymore. I liked with Blackstone Fortress that the enemies have set reactions, if I were playing agsint myself in Space Hulk say, I kinda feel like I'm not playing to win with one team. I think there are a lot of mechanics in video games that could translate to the tabletop to make things a bit more interesting - but despite being in the hobby for 30 years I haven't played enough of the game to really think of myself as a gamer or expert on gameplay, I'm just a very persistent casual!!!

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah I agree tabletop games have a lot to learn from video games - Cal

[@ravenRedwake]

1:45 okay, so GeeDubs biggest issue with the old world (and why they nuked it to make AoS and why they have killed off most of the non Primaris marines) is because they want people to consume product and get excited for next product…not just go “oh no, it’s okay I got my dwarfs army and shit ton of cannons” or “oh I got plenty enough tactical marines” It wasn’t subtle at first-first born marines only had one wound.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Ayyooo "consume product and get excited for next product" we have used that clip before. And yeah the one wound thing was... not good - Cal

[@catcadev]

Well, I really, really hope that 10th edition gets some of this. Fluffy, fun things not only competitive "balanced" games.

[@morshuthemerchant4105]

1:39 all that stuff got updated 👍

[@havelock1982]

Co-op mode is nearly guaranteeing a better introduction for new players. And you get to use all those Cursed City / Blackstone Forttress models again!

[@CaltropArt]

Love the idea of the co-op kill team. Takes me right back to the 3rd edition rules. Remember reading a white dwarf in 2003 about a custom tyranid kill team fighting their way through hordes of Orc brutes. Sounds like they're bringing this idea back.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

And I think this is why we are excited and hope others are too, seems some of the older editions had concepts people enjoyed more ~Sunny

[@juanconstenla1171]

I think gw got a bit inspired after poorhammer released their horde mode 😅

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Second comment I have seen on that much better way to say it. Basically I don't want Poor hammer in GW firing line. I like them they were the first people to give us a shout out - Cal

NPCs! The only way to play Tyranids in the upcoming edition! 😂

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Oof that hurt 🤕 - Cal

[@PrincessKushana]

I ran a short 40k coop campaign a couple of years ago, mashing up 40k with the deck based turn strucutre of the arkham horror ccg. Worked so well, was really fun. Though a lot of effort to craft up all the cards.

[@suddenlysarablog]

It's not the first time GW has had Model-Agnostic units in their games. Mordheim has been like that for years.

[@exmalobonum1]

Been a minute since I listened to one of your guys videos. Sound quality is great and, as always, the conversation is quite endearing. :)

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Thanks we have really been working on the audio quality, if you want to help us out sharing means a lot - Cal

[@exmalobonum1]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow the work has paid off! I actually have shared your channel with other friends of mine who are new to the hobby. :)

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Thank you very much 😊 I hope they enjoy it - Cal

[@hephesto555666]

Could be interesting, though I am certain that miniature agnostic will most definitely still mean GW models. As for V3.0, I am not liking the fact that you don't actually build a Killteam anymore. Everything is prebuild, straight out of the box with at most a weapon specialist having two options. It's like they're trying to reduce actual freedom with each new edition, though Deadzone has me covered there. Cheaper, complete freedom and a much better playing and written ruleset. As for minis and armies being years to decade-long investments, that goes directly against all of GW's marketing approaches. To the point where during exec meetings folks have openly mused about the customer being slowly pushed towards the idea that armies are projects that should be retired after enough time and an edition. We're not GW customers, we're the resource being mined for the actual ones - the shareholders. ;-)

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

It's a very short term mind set - Cal

[@looselycollected7505]

I would be excited if they still allowed for list building like the 2018 version. The set data cards for teams are fine for beginning players and people that don't want to list build for whatever reason. But if the game had list building rules alongside the set data cards it would be a lot more attractive to me. As is, I will likely just keep buying books for the 2018 version and play with friends and family at home.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

We will have to see but I would like to have hope - Cal

[@IshgarSeth]

So funnily enough, they have published a couple (and I mean like 5) White Dwarf scenarios for AoS that literally are that : coop games. There were two based on the Cursed City timeline where you take heroes from AoS (non-named) and you fight through waves of various ennemies. One where you basically buy a 500-ish point force, no big hero dude, and you do the same. And I even have one for 6+ players where each one plays a BIG HERO and you have to go around the map taking treasures and punching peeps. And really, these are the best scenarios I've played.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah so a board game based thing, that's we hope they go outside of it - Cal

[@Bodkin_Ye_Pointy]

Well, there are a couple of things with GW. The management seems to be hell bent on destroying the brand. With legends, they were never full armies before. Except that one time, looking at you Squats. Then there is the treatment of the fan base with the Amazon demands for Woke inclusivity, in a dystopian universe, the adoption of the position on the knees by GW for Amazon and the isolation of the stores who are no longer allowed to let gamers or painters into the stores. I noticed my local stores have no one walking in now. So lets see where the end up while trolling their fans and customer base.

[@DavidHewerdine]

Why are people so utterly devoid of any kind of creativity and incapable of using their own imagination these days. The whole point of a hobby is that you enjoy it, so instead of buying into the whole sales marketing side of GW which sadly is the basis of its entire existence. Buy what you want, play how you want, with whatever rules you want. Lore is one thing but game rules and how you choose to play is completely up to you. GW have one goal and that is to increase their profit margin by any means necessary, they do not give a shit about the lore and they certainly do not give a shit about any of us either.

[@ipbk8471]

havent watched in forever but i love you guys so much and I'm back, gf broke up with me but I got a new one so its all good

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Glad to hear you are living your life man! Life comes before any TV show - Cal

[@ArcusArmis19]

Knowing that Killteam is on its last legs, I feel like nothing they say in regards to it isn't gonna matter

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Why do you think it's on it's last legs? - Cal

[@WitekStraus]

It is absolutely not.

[@vicnedel02]

I was in the middle of inventing a co-op system for kill team when the new announcement came out and I was so disappointed. I'm the guy who made space-hulk themed radar tokens for orks.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

stls? Where can people find them - Cal

[@WithGas]

The last kill team rules were atrocious. GW needs to hire talented game designers, not idiots that put random icons for distances. If Kill Team had good and simple rules, I'd instantly play it.

[@jaspercameron7590]

I feel like using the shapes for movement created an interesting multi part movement system that I got used to and enjoyed when doing detailed movement for models, kinda sad to see the concept go

[@paulharper7185]

Will depend on backwards compatibility. I have a handful of old 1st edition kill teams. If I can use them as is without tearing them up because the loadout is not available anymore, I will jump in, if not hard pass.

[@rumbleroocomics]

You guys like to make Acronyms, or should I say YGLTMA

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I guess if making one is liking it... - Cal

[@rumbleroocomics]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow TEWII (that exactly what I'm implying)

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

@@rumbleroocomics ha ha ha fair enough - Cal

[@trancedarkdust90]

What would happen if a bigger war game were played with kill teams? Like each team plays on a larger field simultaneously with other players. Like a real life MMO. 10 v 10 (Ten kill teams vs 10 kill teams. Massive map. Communication rules.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I don't know *insert Homer Simpson meme* - Cal

[@OptimusMonk01]

it's called Apocalypse

[@Dram1984]

I’m kinda sorta excited about new Kill Team but I have so little faith in GW I just don’t know how to feel. The only thing I really don’t care for is ditching the compendiums. I want some kind of list building :( It’s the same problem I have with combat patrol, I’d love the format if you weren’t locked into a bunch of sub-par box sets.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I know about the faith thing... 😓 - Cal

[@OptimusMonk01]

Try 7th edition it's exactly what you want

[@AngelusNielson]

One-page rules must be eating into their profits something fierce for them to do this.

[@changelingiris9409]

I'm part of the OPR community and don't think we cut a lot into GW's core demographic. Most are either casual 40 somethings who have several armies since the 90s or crazy 3D printing enthusiasts who have probably never bought a GW mini.

[@AngelusNielson]

@@changelingiris9409 You're right. I figured out thhe "Or something" is the existence of Space Marine 2. This is going to get a lot of people into the franchise. And of course, jumping straight into the deep end of 40k is going to be too much for a lot of people. So this is a better "onboarding" method.

[@DanielYellsAtPeople]

I just like building and painting the models. I've still never actually played a game of Warhammer 40k or AoS. But these lil orc dudes are going in my DnD campaign.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah... We are more painters than players these days - Cal

[@naib_stilgar]

Why would GW EVER give the player base the idea that they don't need to buy new models? ROFL

[@PatrickWaddingham]

I just heard I can play 40k with my OPR models w/o problem 👉👈

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well for the NPCs for co-op - Cal

[@Jfk2Mr]

I mean, if you have reasonable group and don't plan on going for official tournaments, you'll be fine

[@timunderbakke8756]

I don’t see it getting any more model agnostic than it is for the NPCs. On the other hand, if your play group is not letting you run your legends units as “counts as” units with rules, you need new friends.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

This is true but, a lot of people play with more than just their friends - Cal

[@skreechverminking2227]

Legend models. I mean as ling as they have rules and points they are always playable. I don’t really see a problem with these complaints. Unless of course they mean at a tournament

[@The.Innercouncil]

There’s a huge misconception about legends in my opinion. Legends still has rules which you can use in any game of warhammer sigmar or 40K. However, you cannot use legends units in games of competitive play. As in a tournament I believe, but you can always check. So legends models do not have simply no rules and aren’t useful anymore. They still have their own points etc in pdfs. If anything you now have free rules to use them. The only thing is they will not be rebalanced or touched at any point by gw and that includes points changes.

[@trancedarkdust90]

The game master is a great thing. When I started waaaay back, we always had a GM. Then they went away. To be honest I think that the GM was more of the guy with the game that wanted us to get into it. But with co op games, I think a GM is great. They bring it to life, they could play the bad guys. Even it was limited decision making.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well origin 40k rouge trader had a GM with games - Cal

[@f0rth3l0v30fchr15t]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow WHFB had a GM up until 4th edition I think. The idea being that they could make a game between complete model collections have some balance even if one guy has 1500 points worth and the other has 5000, and you just rocked up, slapped some extremely basic terrain down ("yeah, it looks like a copy of Sharpe's Eagle, but trust me, it's a small hill, OK?"), arrayed your full collection and went at it.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

yeah I like the idea of GM's in wargames - Cal

[@miguelperez9906]

WYSIWYG is kinda annoying I don’t like having to limit to how you model your model as long as you make it clear to your opponent what they are it should be fine as long as the general size and base are a match.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I like WYSIWYG but I think that comes from a different age where you had more options - Cal

[@Dram1984]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow WYSIWYG made sense when you had to buy your equipment and points didn’t change every couple of months. With free wargear and constant point changes it’s just pointless.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Yeah I am picking up what you're putting down - Cal

[@HardcoreHobby]

I liked the video and I am commenting because i like the approachable buddy team style of your channel, but i think youre being far too generous to GW and purposefully overlooking all the times they have introduced things (to get people into or to return to the hobby) only to them take them away again. That churn, FOMO and artificial scarcity is apart of their business model, and you know it

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

We have commented on GWs poor practices before, we try to respect people's time. So, we won't go over other things in a short video like this because many people will feel that is padding. Feel like a damned if you do damned if you don't. Just being upfront about our philosophy - Cal

[@gammothdraws]

Sooooo, they're promoting Proxying? Awesome! Personally, I'm getting some Necromunda Genestealers for my 40k Genestealers because, let's be honest, they are so much better

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I wouldn't exactly say that but I hope they do encourage at least that CAP 🧢 idea we talked about but we will see - Cal

[@Kukezh]

honestly, I'm a bit of intimidated by killteam, as by all the photos of it, it looks like the game requires big and elaborate terrain, so if I'd want to play some team-type game, I'd probably look towards something like Malifaux or whatever there is(Warmachine maybe?).

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I can understand that 100% doing the terrain for the killteams was uh....not fun 😑 but we do have a whole episode about making Warhammer terrain, quick cheap and easy which coud help ~Sunny

[@Nosh_Feratu]

sorry guys, where was the bit on solo play? It seems like you mentioned it, talked loads about co-operative play, then forgot about solo! 🙂 I think a lot of people would play more if there were solo options, not everyone has friends who play 40k, or the means to do so regularly, so its the only option for a lot of people id imagine.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

We didn't talk about as much because that wasn't our thing as much yeah they are including solo play in the new Kill Team take the article linked - Cal

[@mahari7285]

Nothing really new here (except maybe for GW management). Guess they're just scared of losing more customers to OPR...🤷‍♂️

[@ironknight132]

I really gave up hope for GW long ago, but hopefully people will have fun with it. I will continue trying to sway people to alt games in my area. Never going to have another army squatted 😂

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well hopefully you enjoy our video coming out this weekend 'the Graves' about Frostgrave and Stargrave. We will look for your comment 😉 - Cal

[@ironknight132]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow Oh yeah 🤘They have some fans in my area. Need to get it to the table more often. So far OPR is our biggest alt game, but we’ve seen some Xenos Rampant and WARSURGE too.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Forstgrave and Stargrave are out favourites that's how I got Sunny into tabletop gaming - Cal

[@ChubbsMcgoo]

There are no female custodians.

[@Bristle_and_Broadsword]

I think this video would benefit from just one presenter. The two voices constantly interrupting each other are super annoying. Also, the argument "they can´t go back" is rubbish. Rules come and go and if GW doesn´t want model-agnostic rules anymore, they´ll just scratch them.

[@MekBoooooi]

Looka really fun but it also looks half baked. Just a few general stats , no faction abilities to make the Orks or Nods feel like...Orks or Nids. Also GW is removing Compendium and still not allowing List building. So I got one am not happy about GWs New direction

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Well it is a preview so we don't see everything, I am going to hope for the best - Cal

[@demonstructie]

GW half-assing something? Why I never.

[@thoughtengine]

I think you may find GW are just spewing buzzwords and don't actually know what that stuff means.

[@Adamantios-Alian]

Africans were not knights.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

What? - Cal

[@Adamantios-Alian]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow I just think its an important thing to note when we see pictures of Africans depicted as knights.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Ok... Very wired it wasn't a point we brought up - Cal

[@ravenRedwake]

2:37 ah. Yeah I do that with my ground marines. Nobody cares.

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I don't know what a ground marine is but glad to hear your doing it ☺ I think its a good way to go about things - Cal

[@ravenRedwake]

@@WhatareyouPaintingnow sort of a derogatory name for Stormcast. Since they are “space marines but in fantasy” they’re ground marines. See also “Sigmarines”

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Copy, I follow now 🤠 - Cal

[@longmeaderulez]

The absolute reaching on the new Kill Team is so sad. You are reading WAY too much into a very vaguely worded article. The game itself isn't "model agnostic"...that one part of that one rule is. Because they haven't produced a box of monopose Kill Team Coop Enemy TM models yet to sell you.

[@Artem_Petryk]

Yeah, GW rip-off from Horde Mode developed by guys from Poor Poorhammer Podcast. What an amazing corporate standards

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

I like the Poor hammer guys but I don't think they were the first people to come up with such an idea, you can be upset with GW but making such statements often hurts more than it helps. You put your favourite creator in a firing line follow my meaning - Cal

[@Artem_Petryk]

@WhatareyouPaintingnow nah, I didn't mean they invented co-op or something. It's just looks kind of lazy from GW standpoint, to incorporate homebrew systems into Killteam. This love-hate relationships with fans is quite annoying

[@WhatareyouPaintingnow]

Totally it's a Very old episode of ours now but we did an episode on is games workshop a bad girlfriend kzbin.info/www/bejne/i6ismqeimbSaf8k - Cal

[@rutgaurxi7314]

@@Artem_Petryk Co-op has been around ages as concept, arguably older than GW games itself and can trace all the way to back to it's roots in the historical side of table top.