Haas EC 400 Horizontal Mill Review Pt 2 (Plus Our New Pro Pallet System!)

[@PiersonWorkholding]

✅ Get our NEW Horizontal Pallet System Tombstone! 👉store.piersonworkholding.com/Horizontal-Pallet-System-Tombstone

[@billruss6704]

Cool machine, I am up in Grover Beach, we actually purchased the very first H-400 pallet pool. It's been running non stop (pretty much) to this day. We run about 40 parts per pallet so about 280 per pool cycle. I had to come up with some pretty creative macro programs to keep track of all those parts. If you need any help programming let me know.

[@teekteekteekteek]

I just wanted to sleep.. but then new video. Sleep has to wait!! Thanks Jay & team! Love your content

[@b0rd3n]

You know... i really like how genuine you sound, your ways of thinking about the whole idea of improving on every possible level, staying rational, aware of humans limitations while having great potential for creating achievable perfection. I guess this comment was due on another video i just watched and isn't related so much to this one but i realize we have alot in common and it really made me smile. I'm no machinist but have trained in several fields in order to feed my constant need for brain food; computer sciences, welding/fabrication/assembly, heavy duty mechanic, land surveying, pipe/utilities locating and well, i also been a treeplanter for 9 years. I've always tried to improve any work environment that i was in by either proposing changes, creating custom tools or jigs to become more efficient during employment as a whole or many times just individually when management wasn't receptive. Oh... that also generally had to be done on my own personal time (and dime) due to roadblocks from the higher ops. I currently am senior linux server/infrastructure manager/designer for a very well-known company. Sometimes, i wonder how some people achieved success. I too, am of the opinion that fixing a bug right now is investing in the future. I have to oversee alot in general in order for things to go smooth all around and constantly face issues whenever i bring up the tiniest of problem, requiring the tiniest of effort to fix at present to avoid snowballing effect. It seems to me that most people focus on the huge issues that cost alot of ressources to fix/implement while pushing the smaller things on the back burner without recognizing the negative compounding effects of doing so. Issues easily fixable now tend to be ALOT harder to fix with time, being embedded in whatever great big thing one couldn't spare a few minutes for them. Hard coding known deficiencies into 'the next big thing' is simply not scalable and lead to much of the downtime and frustration i see around my areas. It seems i always have to come back to the much hated 'I told you so' rhetoric and it really aggravates me to feel this way about work/environment i should be loving. Anyways - hahhaa. Thanks Doctor, same time next week?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Lean principles will change your life!

[@50STUNT]

ITS ABOUT TIME, BEEN WATCHING YOU WAIST TIME WITH VERTICALS FOR YEARS. I EVEN COMMENTED THAT YOU SHOULD GET A HORIZONTAL 3-4 YEARS AGO. NICE TOHMBSTONE

[@PiersonWorkholding]

We're glad to be part of the club!

[@namod6538]

Great machine! We also bought an EC 400 and we are loving it!!! We use Automatic Tool Management, together with tool break control and program Macroses to check the tools, and if tools are broken- go and redo the cutting! That way we do 3 !!! Shifts in 24 hours and third shift is lights out machining- no operator! We are very happy! So far had two issues with machine: 1) HAAS had to change spindle encoder and cable - we had an error popping out too frequently (we have a 15k spindle). 2) tool release button was not working- that one was changed as well. One question- do you experience long dwelling times between movements? For example when you home Z axis for B axis rotation, then machines dwells for long time :-)

[@TheDandyMann]

Been following you since grimsmo and saunders came into your shop and even got to meet you at MHub when you did your talk there with them, I also gave you a drawing I made for you. I remember at the dinner that night I suggested that you palletize your rotovice and you said you were working on a design for it and now it's fully fleshed out. I'm so happy to continue to follow your constant improvement and growth as a company and I can't wait to see what you come up with next 😊

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Awesome! Thank you!

[@TheDandyMann]

@@PiersonWorkholding My pleasure my excellent dude 😁

[@OhHeyTrevorFlowers]

Separately from the video, kudos to the thumbnail maker. That's good design.

[@stokelight]

Thanks so much!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

We love Stoke Light!

[@aronandreas]

Just love your show ❤ Best regards from Norway

[@cheeriomartinez]

i love your videos man! It would be cool to see a video about trade shows or conferences you attend. I'm a machinist and my boss gave the goahead to look for any type of conferences coming up.

[@jamescerven4400]

The version on the website looks amazing!!

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Glad you like it! For anyone else wanting to see a product link, here it is: store.piersonworkholding.com/Horizontal-Pallet-System-Tombstone

[@Razzing87]

We have 3 makino a51s hmc and 3 a51nxs hmc no pallet pools. The production on them is amazing

[@7451996james]

You could keep the air knife but angle it so you can clear the door/stop coolant hitting the door so you can see into the machine when needed

[@PiersonWorkholding]

There's already an airgun for the window as a stock feature from Haas.

[@7451996james]

@@PiersonWorkholding oh sweet, didn't know that! Thanks for the reply!

[@wyattjames540]

Awesome video Jay! Thanks for sharing.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

You bet!

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

good video mr pierson..thanks for your time

[@PiersonWorkholding]

You are very welcome

[@TrPrecisionMachining]

@@PiersonWorkholding thanks friend

[@Pondimus_Maximus]

I’ve been looking forward to this one! We have two EC-400s, and both leaked. 😡 We also chose not to spend $90k on the pallet pools, for financial and floor space reasons, but primarily because they weren’t able to handle the Orange Vise tombstones we went with. Just like the ones you showed. Love those! Nevertheless, they’ve been game changers for our small shop, with productivity gains we didn’t anticipate. Those Lang spindle fans are the bees knees, and the whole shop hears them spinning at 12k. 😄 They get used on every job. There are some caveats, but on the whole, they’ve been very good purchases for our shop. Hope to see more horizontal machining in future videos. 😇

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Interesting! We thought we had leaks at the pallet pool and machine interface. Apparently, leaks are a way of life for EC owners.

[@Pondimus_Maximus]

@@PiersonWorkholding I should have mentioned that both leaked at the load station. There’s something fishy going on in that area from the factory, but thankfully, the techs had it fixed up quickly, with no recurring leaks. 😎

[@PiersonWorkholding]

After filming this, it leaked again. C'mon, how much would a can of Flex Seal cost the factory?

[@TheWidgetWorks]

@@PiersonWorkholding well I've got a 2006 EC400 and I'm still chasing the odd leak so... :) horizontals are a bastard because of the amount of panels that you have to get to seal. if you want to seal a real leaking mess buy a swiss lathe. I'm shocked they don't come stock with a drip tray.

[@kyledombrowski7051]

Just odd that you would build a pallet magazine that can't hold the same weight the machine can on a pallet. Leaves a lot on the table

[@gredangeo]

Welcome to Haas. You'd think there'd be more planning on such things. But I guess not. Mindboggling really.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Several other builders do the same thing. It baffles me as well.

[@TheWidgetWorks]

@@PiersonWorkholding I think even haas had a video about this, if you want to have huge capacity automation it cost huge money. Most people that are looking into automation don't need to handle max capacity parts so why build a max capacity automation system for a hugely inflated price for the minority of customers? plus you can just buy piersons system and problem solved:)

[@95dodgev10]

@@TheWidgetWorks and then there's us. No matter what the weight or size capacity we're going to try exceeding it (not on purpose just sometimes s&%@ happens).

[@benthurber5363]

My bet is: They originally tried to, quickly realized they missed the mark, and set an arbitrary weight limit that would work reliably...-ish. Rather than continuing to spend money on development, management said to run with it to get to market faster. A limit of 500 lbs. sounds unlikely as something that was discovered through testing and analysis. And I find it unlikely that an engineer would just pull that out of a hat as a "good enough" design goal. It just doesn't pass the sniff test. It's not... wrong per se. It's just kind of silly. A few quick tests of rails and bearings should have told them how much overkill they needed.

[@raymondvanroest372]

I agree, you learn more from your failures than your wins

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Absolutely! What was a failure you learned from?

[@richhuntsd12]

Nice video Jay. I really like my Haas machines. I absolutely love the controller. I have been self employed for about 36 years. I briefly worked for another company about 3 years. We we’re running mostly Mazak’s. Both mills and lathes. I really like Mazak’s too. But when you realize how nice the Haas controller is compared to other brands it’s like a light bulb going off in Your mind. I think the EC 400 is going to work out great for You guys. Buy the next one with the High speed spindle for the aluminum work and dedicate this one to the steel and cast iron work. Are you making the tombstone in house for the new horizontal setup or is it a buy out. Really good stuff Young Man. Keep up the good work.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I appreciate your perspective. There are a lot of great controls but the Haas is incredibly intuitive and laid out well. I like your strategy of the next EC 400 being an aluminum-only machine with a faster spindle. We're buying blank tombstones for now until it makes sense to insource them.

[@stephenhart8981]

when people ask what to buy first, haas. almost stupid proof control, best gui in the industry. when you start chasing zeros that's when you should upgrade.

[@Mr30friends]

How are you feeding air to this system that can rotate?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

It only needs air to unlock pallets. This is done with a quick disconnect at the load station. Once pallets are loaded, the QD airline can be removed and the pallets remain locked.

[@ytfan3815]

Hi Jay, do you have air-knifes on your chip conveyors, we machine a lot of aluminium and mounted air-knifes to clean the belts to provide chips going under the conveyor, mostly chips are too wet to fall off, added air-valves that run simultaneously with the conveyor. I like the Haas control for it's large (cheap) memory, free updates of the latest NGC version or VPS-templates and running from USB. I don't like the control panel when you also used to other brands, to many functions behind a single key, but the controller is okay.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

We have one conveyor with an air knife. It seems to work marginally at best.

[@lukegkohler]

Genuine (curious) question for Jay @piersonworkholding … I know you have Haas and Doosan machines, did you look at anything else before the EC400 purchase? I did some quick math (and online quoting) and that machine is within ~20% the price of MTB’s who are known for HMC’s and much more rigid, fast, etc. and have options Haas doesn’t offer like 18k spindles with 47 HP (or more). I just don’t see Haas HMC’s around here, everyone who is serious about that level of production runs Mazak, Mori, or Okuma. Thanks in advance!

[@Xraller]

I’ve been using that mill for 3 years now. That tool change area is going to get very gummed up with the coolant and the pallet is also a pain to keep clean. Haas needs to make it so you have more access to carousel.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Great tip! We'll keep an eye on those areas.

[@poetac15]

Thanks for posting! Do you have any customers using the rotovice on a haas mini mill?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Yes but you'll want to specify a tool change position in the control to move the RotoVise to a safe area for every tool change.

[@brendanmmann]

I have just a couple of questions regarding the Haas HMC line. 1. Does the controller have any kind of pallet scheduling? For example, would I be able to tell the machine to start with Pallet 2 and run programs 122 & 123 then load pallet 4 and run programs 98 & 100. Also does the load station have a safety mechanism on it to prevent someone from sending a pallet in at say B180 instead of B0?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

"Yes" is the answer to all your questions.

[@wrighty338]

I can see that tombstone being a real hit

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Thank you. It's going to solve lots of problems in the industry.

[@HudsonLighting]

I couldn't imagine spending loads on a Machine and having it leak. I appreciate issues occasionally but since getting a Nakamura, that things next level and didn't have any factory issues. I appreciate the price but, I guess if you are the US that's the case, anywhere else, HAAS is actually expensive

[@andrewnichols1470]

I would love to see some more content on the RotoVise. I've been looking to make the leap into 4th axis, but being as small as we are, it's a huge investment for us (demo units anyone? :) ). I'd especially like to see more from the pallet design and usage side (Fixture Friday?)

[@PiersonWorkholding]

More to come!

[@mahnkemachine3281]

A question, unrelated to this specific video. What is the reason for the current trend for dark walls in the shop environment? Your new shop, and several others I have seen on YT are going that way. I guess, is it more of being trendy? Or is there some other good reason for it?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I don't know about trends but I think black walls look less cluttery.

[@RED-ZONE11]

Hello, how are you? I have a question, please: What is the lifespan of CNC machines? Does the quality of their work decrease over time?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Impossible to answer. It's like asking about the lifespan of a car. It depends on how hard you drive it and if it's well maintained.

[@TheManWith2FirstName]

Weird question, but why do most of the tombstones on the market only have 4 or 2 faces? If you were to use a 5 face pallet or more, I would think that would increase the efficiency. I know that there could be a limitation while reaching some features depending on the size of the material. Am I missing something or is this the way it is because this it the way it has been?

[@samuelt321]

Each face of the tombstone gets smaller every step up in number of faces. At some point they are to small for what you want to do.

[@TheManWith2FirstName]

@@samuelt321 that makes sense. I also assume that the machine and unload station only have rotation locks at 90 degree increments.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

I'd also add that additional faces can interfere if you're doing side work.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Great work. What’s the centre material made of on the new pallet system. Thanks.

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Cast Iron

[@MrTooTechnical]

Thanks again

[@owengillick235]

would a 6 sided hexagon tomb stone work in this machine?

[@PiersonWorkholding]

Possibly but we outfitted it with 4 of our Horizontal Pallet Systems: store.piersonworkholding.com/horizontal-pallet-system-tombstone

[@adammiller4879]

I’m gonna be honest I don’t think I’m a fan of a chain driven tool carousel, chain can loosen, and have back lash, I would like it might cause issues in the future with tools jamming up, but I can’t wait to see how it does. I feel gear driven would be more reliable.

[@poetac15]

First.