Halo’s Original Human-Forerunner War | Halo Lore

[@WiseFish]

Hope you all enjoy the video! Let me know if there are other stories you’d like me to tell in the Halo universe and in other games!

[@kevingeenath4569]

Yessss.... Thankyou so much. Love the video. 👍👍👍❤️❤️❤️

[@dbone6356]

Make one on how the covenant became what they are today and their encounter with humans.

[@JinzoTK]

Basically the human-forerunner war. Humans: "I should have called." Forerunners: "I overreacted."

[@WiseFish]

Yep in a nutshell haha

[@BanishedSilentShadow3318]

Flood: I fooled y'all on killing each other

[@hellohowareyou7495]

@@WiseFish but did forerunner realize that humanity was actually right all along in the end or did they just kinda, meh whatever ?

[@darkshadowsleader]

@@hellohowareyou7495 they realized it and used the composer to digitalize the last of the humans from the war and turn them into AI’s to help fight against them. 343 guilty spark being one of them. The monitors and mindicate bias and offensive bias being 2 also. But by the time the forerunners waged war against the flood it was too late. The war was already lost.

[@hellohowareyou7495]

@@darkshadowsleader ahh. But why didnt they give humans their technology and civilization back?

[@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache]

Halo lore goes a lot deeper than I thought, it's such a beautiful and complex story

[@calum_turner_3410]

bro I see you everywhere, what the actual fuck haha

[@esaiaswalker8944]

Read the forerunner series, all 3 books are incredible

[@Gandalf1232]

There's a halo Mythology book that explains the entire backstory and basically the entire Halo verse. It's expensive, like $45, but I loved reading it

[@keilafleischbein59]

This isn't true. Forerunners are humans

[@keilafleischbein59]

@@esaiaswalker8944 they're terrible and ruin the lore

[@54032Zepol]

I always loved the stories about ancient lost human civilizations, from Atlantis and ancient Mesopotamia to Homeworld and AC Series.

[@Youtube_is_Trash]

You have to watch Stargate if you haven't then :o

[@jeremyearley9162]

I agree. It's always so interesting to me, makes me wonder if we were at one point very technologically advanced but got all that wiped when we got sent back to the stone age. No real way to actually prove otherwise

[@nyxknight7555]

@@KZbin_is_Trash that’s what I came down here to say lol 😂

[@nyxknight7555]

Stargate my man so good 😊 pretty cheesy but oh well still love it

[@Gandalf1232]

@@nyxknight7555 universe got away from the cheesy aspects pretty well...if only it didn't end on such a cliffhanger

[@itwasntme8667]

I love the idea of flash back missions so we can play as ancient humans at various stages during this conflict

[@Youtube_is_Trash]

You can't have that, all you can have is the shortest Halo campaign ever in an open world with 0 replayability.

[@itwasntme8667]

@@KZbin_is_Trash I specificed flashback MISSIONS bro, not a full campaign....

[@collincaperton6718]

@@KZbin_is_Trash halo infinite is as repayable as any other halo game I've ever played and it also isn't the shortest

[@Nollic15]

@@collincaperton6718 there is no mission select after you beat the game, say you want to replay the last mission you’ll have to start a whole new game and play through the whole game just to do it.

[@collincaperton6718]

@@Nollic15 I thought he meant as in replaying the campaign. My bad yeah the lack of being able to select a mission to replay is pretty shit

[@fadelsukoco3092]

This era has always been one of my favorite parts of the Halo universe, with the origins of the Flood and the true nature of the Forerunners, Prophets, and Humanity being so much bigger than the games led us to believe. I firmly believe that the war was inevitable the moment that the Flood got out of control in Ancient Human territory and ran the risk of spilling over to Forerunner territory. The true tragedy of the 1000+ years of conflict between AH and their San Shyuum allies and the Forerunner Ecumene was that even if both sides were fully aware about how the Flood worked and their threat, an alliance of mutual cooperation would be all but impossible. Let me explain what I mean by that: In the Forerunner Trilogy, we learn that millions of years in the past, the Precursors had tested the Forerunners for the Mantle of Responsibility, and that the Forerunners were found wanting. The Precursors then decided to test Humanity next, and had high hopes for their success. Once the Forerunners learned about this, they were livid, organizing a pre-emptive campaign of total extermination upon their creators. While the Primordial stated that the Forerunners did this without provocation and that the Precursors seemingly didn't even fight back, there was some precedent to rumors of the Precursors wiping the slate clean of any species they created and who had failed their tests in the past, which the Forerunners would have most likely used to justify their actions. This genocidal campaign happened just over 10 million years before the Forerunner-Flood War. How does this relate to the Forerunners and Ancient Humans? Well, the Forerunners as a civilization never fell or collapsed across those 10 million years, despite their fair share of internal conflicts over the eras. This means that the Forerunners have harbored a deep-seated ancestral prejudice against Humanity (in whatever form they exist in) for TEN MILLION YEARS. Even if the Forerunners forgot their history and the circumstances as to WHY they hated Humanity, that hatred would never stop. Given how hard it is for somewhat different groups of Humans with just a few millennia of contact to get over their bigotry, you can imagine how difficult any cooperation would be for completely different species with bad blood that has been ingrained into them for that long (made even worse by how the Forerunners imprint the memories of their forebearers onto their young during their mutation processes and their ancestral records in the Domain). It is most likely that no matter hoe much the AH would have tried to warn the Forerunners of the Flood, the Forerunners would either not believe it or make any number of excuses as to how everything was secretly Humanity's fault and that the Flood was a false flag operation to justify their encroachment into Ecumene space, a bioweapon targeting the Forerunners that the AH lost control of or was working as intended, that the AH's arrogance in believing they could master the Flood led to their mess, or any other such excuses. The point is that with the way the Forerunners viewed Humanity, cooperation would have been futile. This is also likely why in the H4 terminal videos, Forthencho dismisses one of his bridge officers who proposes to warn the Forerunners of a Flood infection on the world they were over. Any negotiation would just be time wasted that the Flood could spread unmolested.

[@keilafleischbein59]

I hate this bullshit. It breaks the lore. The forerunners are humans. There was never a war.

[@brontsmoth671]

@@keilafleischbein59 Hahahahah

[@dracula3811]

@@keilafleischbein59 it most definitely does not break lore

[@keilafleischbein59]

@@dracula3811 then why are the forerunners 11 feet tall and not human in 4?

[@ls200076]

@@keilafleischbein59 Lmao, it doesn't.

[@smiffypop333]

Being playing Halo 4 and wanted to understand the history of the Forerunners. This video is absolutely perfect. Thank you!

[@Jedi_Spartan]

Most of the visuals in this video were in some of the Halo 4 Terminals. I recommend trying to find them in the game (they're on every mission minus Dawn).

[@keilafleischbein59]

Halo 4 is really really bad. The forerunners never fought a war with humans because forerunners are humans.

[@Ilikeavocados123]

@@keilafleischbein59 wat r u on about 😹

[@keilafleischbein59]

@@Ilikeavocados123 I'm stating what's obvious to anyone who has played the halo games. The forerunners are ancient humans. Truth, gravemind, and spark all confirm it.

[@keilafleischbein59]

@@Ilikeavocados123 a forerunner is a human before the halos fired. A reclaimer is a human after. It should be obvious.

[@Youtube_is_Trash]

Just a thought. If the forerunners were aware of humanity and considered them the second most advanced empire and that humanity knew about the forerunners and each were growing empires next to each others, how did they not have diplomatic communication??

[@Youtube_is_Trash]

@cyotee doge wild to assume I don't have diplomatic lines of communication with the squirrel nation in my backyard. Joke aside, in modern world countries have diplomatic communication even with those that are much less advanced than them because it's practical. I do think that you might be right and that it was indeed why they didn't, yet I still think it was quite irresponsible behavior from the forerunners.

[@ArtyKibbles2190]

@@KZbin_is_Trash well they are an alien species so the ethics would be different.

[@Youtube_is_Trash]

@@ArtyKibbles2190 it's not as much a question of ethic as of practicality, as proven by the disaster caused by lack of communication between the two empires. It could have been anything else really, an invasion from an other galaxy to a natural disaster, and they would have stand there like morons waiting to get wiped out not even knowing the reaper is on it's way.

[@CaptainPilipinas]

@cyotee doge their Illogical self-interpretation of their universe's mantle way of living was trully Arrogant.

[@rdcarbonk1885]

to put it on simple terms just imagine the first covid alert from a country like africa and not a strong nation like china? do you think there would even be a closing of the borders by mid 2020?

[@Plasma-vs1eq]

For such an advanced and long lived race the forerunners sure are shortsighted

[@JoeMartinez18]

Guess It happens when your seat of power is uncontested for a long time.

[@lobehold2263]

I mean, it is a short lived human wiring these stores. I think an actual forerunner race would be much different lol

[@aFreeBurrito]

Explains them to a T.

[@discountmorty213]

The original idea that the race of forerunners is us.

[@PKM9107]

We REALLY need 343/Microsoft to license Halo to a few other companies and get a series of games set during the human/forerunner and forerunner/flood wars. We already have some books I believe, might as well make the plunge to games

[@Nollic15]

A halo wars game set in that period would be perfect.

[@EnclaveSOC-102]

I wonder if the warrior breed of San Shyuum would be willing to reinstate their alliance with Humanity now that the Prophet breed has been all but eliminated and the Covenant disbanded? (I'm referring to the San Shyuum being two different castes due to having a civil war on their homeworld regarding the discovery of Forerunner artifacts thus splitting the race into two factions.)

[@sonragnarokred9856]

Actually the prophet wouldn't do that they need the homeworld San shyuum to add new blood to their genetic. Also the prophet's said the homeworld was destroyed by a supernova but chances are that is a lie and more likely the homeworld San shyuum had enough of them stealing their women simply making defense around the home system so they couldn't get in.

[@BanishedSilentShadow3318]

@@sonragnarokred9856 I'm sure it's likely a lie I mean if the prophets could keep a secret about that humanity were suppose to be next keepers/guardians of the galaxy then and started this war to keep that as a secret then I'm sure they would also lie about their world being destroyed but who knows

[@BLOrtega]

@An Angry Space Marine That's what they get for backstabbing Humanity

[@maxrander0101]

they would if they were still alive as far as the games lore states their home-world was destroyed by them after they took the Forerunner dreadnaught

[@scottgrasser9475]

find it interesting the forerunners are so quick to judge other races as violent but only because there at the top and its more there not wanting competition they do not serve the mantle they make the mantle serve them by using it to justify forerunners dominance to them its ok to destroy other races because the mantle but oh its barbaric if anyone else has a war

[@karthiksubramanian2279]

Yep, if you read the halo forerunner saga novels, you will learn that forerunners were violent, egotistical, self centred @$$holes who wants to dominate everything until realising they f**ked up...

[@sa1lor_jarry139]

sounds very american

[@cr90captain89]

@@sa1lor_jarry139 id say it is more German. anybody else starts a war & all you hear is crickets, Germany starts a war & everybody loses their shit / minds / starts screaming bloody murder.

[@arishokqunari1290]

I find the idea quite fascinating, that the whole Flood is nothing more than an instrument from the Primordial and the other Precursors to push humanity further through their development, like a stress test and when they pass this test, they earn the mantle. The forerunners on the other hand just violently claimed the mantle for themselves, like ursurpers and through the Flood they got punished for it later on and in the end during the Master Chief timeline, humanity finally succeeded and earned the mantle. I hope we get to see more of the Ancient Humans

[@Nick871203]

but the flood wasnt the intention, the precursors in their dust form became corrupted due to the eons of exposure to do cosmic radiation

[@mikemoore2791]

Humanity shouldve been broadcasting a message widely ahead of their fleet. The Forerunners couldve helped destroy the mutual threat in the flood at least, if not become friends.

[@yaboidre5672]

There’s reasons they didn’t: the flood is disturbingly intelligent and can calculate and maneuver faster than even the most intelligent life in the galaxy. Had the humans sent out warnings, the flood would’ve gotten wind of those warnings and improvised its tactics to botch any kind of counter operation. There unfortunately isn’t another way; the flood must be purged the moment it is detected. And the humans knew this very well.

[@thedarkknight727]

I believe the reason why Humans didn’t warned the Forerunners was because they did before but they didn’t listen, explaining the reason of Humanity’s forced expansion against them.

[@typorad]

The difficulty i have with this part of the lore is the logical steps and tools to make the right decision are right in front of everyone's faces, yet everybody is acting so arrogant and psychotic that nobody does it. Humans would definitely have news that the forerunners could watch to understand the Flood threat. Human-San Shyumm could easily, being the second most technologically advanced alliance, give thorough scientific data and open discussion with the Forerunners. And I find it hard to believe that the Forerunners would so easily dismiss the word of the humans. If they were skeptical of humans they could send a Forerunner ship to investigate a world the humans claimed to be infected. I find it hard to believe the humans truly felt a need to annihilate entire worlds and the forerunners on them to stop the Flood. By comparison, the elites in Halo3 only destroyed a part of Africa and that was more than sufficient to stop the Flood infection. It's like Breaking Bad plot where Walter is constantly rejecting the easy methods of paying for his cancer treatment. The plot only makes sense if people act insane, something hard to believe the most intelligent species in the galaxy would do.

[@helljumper7101]

Yeah it’s all contrived because in Bungie’s lore the Forerunners are human, Contact Harvest and Halo 3s ending spell this out and Bungie never wanted to expand the Forerunners beyond what’s in the games and the Bungie era novels

[@yourgodemperorofeverything1354]

To be fair, I always prefered original version with forerunners being humans. It gave much more intresting vibe, and made covenant religion and hatred twards humans even funnier. But nontheless... we have to give credit to Ancient Humans in new lore. They were powerful Empire. I would say, that they would be even more powerful than Foreruners really. I mean, their empire was basically desolated by flood, their population shattered, their numbers and resources low. And they still waged war against flood and forerunners, hold their own, and gave Foreruner army hell to go thru. Diodac called lord of admirals his greatest enemy. Even without precursor technology they were formmidable opponents, but fast paste in wich they incorporated precursor tech and learned how create and use it, shown how adaptable they were. And it all with actuall fraction of their power, while foreruners had their entire empire intact. Truly, if there was no flood, I would say tha Humans had huge chance to defeat Foreruners.

[@jackolantern147]

Now I really want to see part 2 of this. The war of revenge, the Forerunners time of judgment and the Precursors ascension. The Forerunner Flood War.

[@punishedvenomsnake716]

Hypeeeeeeeeee, clicked on this one so quick. Especially after finishing Halo Infinite, it's time for some more lore 😎 I'm hoping that you'll do one on the Human-Flood War and the Forerunner-Flood War in the near future! Cheers as always, friend

[@SinisterxMonkey]

I feel like this would be a cool spin off game series. Like how Half Life and Portal are in the same universe. Or like how Prometheus is a prequal to Alien, but its so far back that you can barely tell. Theres a lot of potential with a universe as big as Halo.

[@eliargumedo4728]

Millions of years ago: humans and forerunners almost reach tier zero of technological advances. Then the flood resets it. Now: humans have high technology and the remaining forerunners as well. The flood will reset it once again

[@supremercommonder]

no the forerunner and humans use to be one species

[@Dylann121]

I think you missed the brutal details of what really happened with the powder. Once it was tested on the pets it actually enhanced their features. Gave them shiny-er coats. But then they started growing extra appendages that they would devour and they would start devouring each other then eventually people would also devour them thus completing the pathway from pets to people

[@WhuppopotamusYT]

Still hate 343 for retconning the entire story

[@kof867]

I’m loving your videos, great content and your narration is very easy on the ear, makes it perfect for before bed listening and has been my go to for the past week!

[@kevinfitzgerald527]

As fantastical as this part of halo lore is I really do kind of enjoy hearing it. It does echo a lot parallels in human history and how we are as a people when we don’t know really what’s going on with others.

[@leniman7707]

Man, in all of Halo history, humanity CANNOT catch a break 😅

[@GronGrinder]

That was amazing. This was the exact gap in the early lore that I was curious about. Thank you for this video.

[@Cothfotmeoo]

It's easy to make a pretty good lore video with all those amazing visuals but your vids are always incredibly detailed, well written, and well read. Amazing work putting this one together, I really enjoyed it. Well played.

[@deanlawson6880]

Great Video! It's just fascinating all of the depth of Lore in the Halo Universe!! Thanks for this!!

[@Whatisright]

Any chance the mainline story will explore ancient human tech and civilization? Maybe there's a human shield world out there somewhere.

[@jackroyaltea5034]

This was so good. You’re criminally underrated.

[@Kyte001]

The funny thing is that the Forerunner military was reduced in size before the war against humanity. The Forerunners looked down on war and prefer to focus on artistic construction of worlds. If I remember correctly, a large majority of the Forerunners hated the idea of waging war against mankind.

[@sirbenedict6635]

To be fair it’s pretty crazy to just start blasting entire colonies instead of trying to make first contact and making a deal.

[@EL-ISS]

Humanity glassed planets before the Covenant did 😂💀

[@Bearjew2995]

Sitting here trapped in my house with covid not in a good mood then boom you drop a Halo lore video! Best medicine.

[@fluffiestmallard6484]

This couldn't have been possible though, in halos original lore. Given the humans are forerunners. This was established in Halo 3, and a lot of the books written by Joseph Staten.

[@flatarthur3161]

Exactly

[@debo8665]

It was originally a third person shooter

[@fluffiestmallard6484]

@@debo8665And if I am remembering correctly, it was even originally an RTS

[@Neteruk]

The theoretical flow is as follows. Primals are negative level species, their universe evolved multiple species, they came out swinging. After the end of their universe, they evolved in the timeless void, until they detected the second universe; this was the precursor universe. The Primals approached and entered that universe, and found Precursors (among others). The Primals, believing themselves to be stewards of life, enforce the first instance of "The Mantle." Yet peace, and how to achieve it, is highly subjective; in the Primals case, subjugation was the path. So they subjugated the precursors, and interfered in their natural evolution, in an attempt to uplift them. Their morality was cruel, and so the Precursors rebelled. This caused the entropy of their universe to be hastened, as the Primals used time to make war, and the precursors used space. Shattering their universe, and forcing them to evolve into inert forms. Then the Halo universe banged into existence, and the precursors immediately made it small though slip, hiding it from most Primals, and then entering it and resting. When they awoke a few billion years later, they made their way to their milky way galaxy, and began preparing for the eventual war with Primals. But there were other Primals who had seen their deception and would not be fooled. Yet these Primals were wise enough to hold back and use the Precursors against each other. Thus the first flood war happened, and the concluded Precursors (those whose thoughts had merged with slip space) won. So the Primals withdrew and chose to observe and wait. The Precursors, having evolved trillions of years under a "Mantle of Responsibility," formulated their own mantle. They then uplifted multiple races to serve them in achieving this mantle. But unlike the Primals, Precursors believe in letting the universe learn and teach. So they did not interfere, and allowed their progeny to be one with chaos. Humanity seemed more capable of navigating this chaos much better than the rest. Precursors, though highly intelligent, were incapable of seeing the larger picture fast enough. So it was decided the mantle would be passed to humanity, as they showed the capacity to combat the Primals and probably win, when their universe came to it's end. The Forerunners would hear none of it. Initiating a rebellion against the Precursor decision, and attacking humanity with the first guardians and Prometheans. The Precursors attempted to mitigate this without interfering, but saw no other way than to withdraw and let the chaos play out. After all, if humanity was so capable, then they should survive this. However, among their number, were precursors who still had the capacity to get angry. These were the same breed that had not been concluded...and had been deluded by the Primals. Some fought the forerunners directly, and got themselves archived, others became the flood powder, using humanity as tools of vengeance. Among the concluded, was the one known as Primordial; he was among a group sent to retrieve those who had been deluded by wrath. They did not survive or succeed in their mission, their conflict lead to the events proceeding the Magellanic Clouds Transport ship. So the flood would come and reset humanity and remove the forerunners. But Primordial made an appalling move, revealing to humanity their true purpose, and the horrors that awaited them in their future. A war with beings beyond powerful, at the side of their makers. Humanity learned that it's purpose was to be soldiers in a war of universes long dead. So they chose to end it. Yet chaos is the profession of the human, the fertile soil on which they grow and thrive. So they survived that revelation, and march ever forward into the Primal dusk. Their next challenge, being the unconcluded...and endless war...a cycle of living and unliving. Endless.

[@austingregory8041]

What are the primals where did you get this information. What are you on about

[@JuaniAlva]

that's some interesting fan made lore you're talking about, very in touch with the real canon of halo I'd say

[@Brainhacker5]

Always love seeing another upload from you! Makes my days at work alot easier while listening.

[@jaredneal4393]

343 explanation for what the flood is and where it came from is so fucking dumb bungie should have never left the franchise

[@bigdaddynero]

The actual original lore, made by Bungie, is simply worth more. All this crap is Frankie's fan fiction slop that he commissioned Greg Bear to make sense of.

[@kevingame3198]

But this sounds alot like the heavenly principles from genshin but better written

[@bigdaddynero]

@@kevingame3198 But? Genshin was made a decade later and had no inspiration from Halo. Why even comment this?

[@kevingame3198]

@@bigdaddynero the forerunners depicted in halo 4 and 5 as the new baddies of Halo trilogy is somewhat badly executed compared to the heavenly principles in genshin if you read the lore and main campaign aka archon quests And did some awful things and concealed the truth, I won’t spoil the latest chapter in Genshin impact, but it is a shocking turn of events

[@stevenrusch6341]

I really wish that Halo presents lost ancient human relics, including weapons, for 343 Industries' next video game.

[@helljumper7101]

They already did in Bungie’s games plus Halo Wars in fact you even fight on 5 ancient Human structures

[@gabrielseth5142]

The retconning of forerunners as human beings (or at least proto humans as we know it) was the biggest deflation in all of halo lore. I will always be salty about this

[@robinchwan]

humans fought flood AND forerunner and it took the forerunner an insane amount of time to beat the humans, you can imagine how strong they were if it were only humans vs forerunner or humans vs flood ( i'm sure the humans could adapt and figure out something to do against the flood)

[@thechadcruzaider7864]

I believe it was the forerunners that admitted that without the flood, ancient humanity would have surpassed them, humanity developed much more powerful weapons throughout the war but lacked in defensive tech, which wouldn't have mattered too much if the flood didn't get in the way so much

[@fadelsukoco3092]

Yeah, in Primordium, the spirit of Forthencho tells Chakas that were it not for the Flood, the Human Empire would have been able to win against the Forerunners, I believe he even believed that they WERE close to victory at one point, which sounds completely delirious at first glance, but this was the supreme commander of Humanity's military during the war, he would have known better than almost everyone the truth of the situation. And keep in mind that the Human Empire would have been far, FAR larger and more capable than it was at the start of the Human-Forerunner War, since by then it's likely that the majority of it had been infested by the Flood, scorched to the mantle, or both, and their military would be a fraction of what it was pre-Flood due to them having to learn the hard way how to get good against the Flood, in which time the Flood were able to make so many critical inroads and beachheads all across the empire. Then count the fact that the Forerunners A: mastered Slipspace to such a degree that they could jam, clog, trap and track/ambush Human fleet whenever and wherever they bloody hell wanted, meaning that they would never get any meaningful reinforcements or ability to coordinate their forces, and B: The Forerunners made a beeline to Carum Hakkor, attacking only the most strategically important systems in their way to get the war over with as soon as possible with the least amount of effort as possible. This means that the Full might of the Ecumene only had to deal with a fraction of the Human military at a time, and in exactly the situations that they dictated. It still took the Forerunners over 1000 years to do this, with losses and casualties so ludicrous that the Librarian believed that the Flood were able to win against the Forerunners so fast due to the lasting trauma and loss felt from the Human-Forerunner War. It was due to the war with the Humans that so many warrior-servant died and the Builders, who controlled the military-industrial complex, were able to rise to power, these two event leading to a vastly understaffed and scaled-down Forerunner military with a very corrupt and inefficient Builder-dominated political scene. As for adaptation, the Primordial said that there is no cure to the Flood, but also that the Humans had developed biological measures to attack the Flood on a cellular level, meaning the Flood could not use the biomass from defeated Human forces. We're not sure what these alterations were, but imagine an infection form jumping onto someone and the form being pulled out of a gaping wound with the blood all over it dissolving the tendrils and shell of the Floodform. The trooper retreats behind cover and shines a hardlight projector to stop the bleeding and act as an impromptu replacement for the damaged tissue, and in a few moments he's back in the fight. Do you know how useful something like corrosive or explosive blood could be against the Flood?

[@honestdude8497]

@@fadelsukoco3092 damn, i like your lore broo..

[@Angry_Peanut_52]

From what I read, the human capital of Charum Hakkor lasted under siege for 53 years

[@PJOZeus]

Wait, intentionally held back to keep Humanity from Extinction? Do the precursors still on some level want Humanity to ascend to the Mantle? Very much so could just be misspeaking, but if that was somehow the intent (as I had thought it was purely for the second reason mentioned of diverting forerunner attention), then perhaps they still have some degree of their initial sentience, not just wanting to war but wanting more Could also give an alternate reason as to why they allowed the Master Chief to live uninfected rather than a sleeper cell to be activated once the Halo was destroyed - they could somehow see his path to ascendancy as their had initially wished?

[@GoodShepheardGames]

Even the halo universe acknowledges Christ existence, death, and resurrection

[@fatcheech1]

Making amazing lore content once again.

[@rookie4582]

Huge bummer there were no ODSTs in Halo Infinite. ;-;

[@WiseFish]

There was a lot missing that disappointed me but the gameplay was for the most part really good

[@rookie4582]

@@WiseFish 100% Agree, gameplay was solid, but a lot was missing.

[@noplace4akitty047]

Yeah. I was like 3 hrs in and went "........my boys. Where are they? A whole unsc ship, and not one hell jumper?!?"

[@WiseFish]

@@noplace4akitty047 saved for DLC probably

[@rookie4582]

@@noplace4akitty047 LOL XD

[@omegas.4025]

I thought Ancient humans and Forerunners were equal but the reason Humanity lost was because they were fight the flood as well and were stuck in between the two forces?

[@fadelsukoco3092]

Human technology was inferior to the Forerunners in pretty much every field and they were exponentially outnumbered. The main way that they were able to hold out for so long was that they were able to create weapons that flat-out ignored all Forerunner defenses, making them obscene glass cannons. Even if the Flood wasn't an issue, the Forerunner Ecumene had the resources, territory and means of production to drown the Humans in the wreckage of their own machines if need be. Multiple sources state that every single warrior servant was able to control over a million automated weapon craft (the Phaeton from Halo 5 is considered to be on the lower-grade of such a "weapon craft", for example) and Prometheans were able to mind-command up to a million fully-fledged capital ships each. So even if a single human was able to destroy 5000 Forerunner war machines, it doesn't matter much to an empire that could produce 20,000 war machines for each human.

[@aurelian2668]

​@@fadelsukoco3092 Nah the only tech humans werent advance or rivaled the forerunners were slipspace tech and megastructures. Other than that humans very much rivaled the forerunners. They also would have surpassed them in bioengineering such as gene building.

[@ABabySword]

The WAP is deeper than I thought.

[@flatarthur3161]

Meanwhile, in the Bungie games, "You are the child of my Makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner! But this ring... is mine!"

[@helljumper7101]

Watch out 343 fanboys will tell you Frank O’Connors 7 canon breaking terminal entries and the horribly written arg overwrites the at least 50 times this fact was laid out by Bungie

[@Gofaw]

​@@helljumper7101 so true. 343 bots are not sentient

[@sami-scott4160]

Bungie fanboys seriously believe the deranged lightbulb who already lied beforehand😆😆 If you stop to actually think about it. Humans being forerunners is an incredibly dumb idea

[@sami-scott4160]

"HuMaNz WuZ fOReRunNeR!!11" Imagine actually liking Bungie's cringe

[@Gofaw]

@@sami-scott4160 not an argument

[@maxrander0101]

when you look back at this time in the past of halo it makes you wonder what would of happened had the war with the forerunners never happened if they had been able to make an alliance against the flood how would the events of the timeline during the games have played out and would humans have known they were the ones ment to take over from the race that came before

[@blackout570]

I like the structure of these halo lore videos what would be the next on halo lore the forerunner flood war?

[@WiseFish]

Could be if people wanna see that yeah :)

[@reaganthai9529]

@@WiseFish please make that we all want to know more.

[@blackpilledmelanin2300]

How did Bungie create so much world building with such competency. Halo is very interesting to learn about and is fun to play.

[@akosii4928]

This part of the lore was actually fleshed out by 343. Bungie laid the groundwork for the Covenant.

[@Ori--pw5vw]

Most of the old and forerunner lore was made by 343 industries

[@sami-scott4160]

Bungie's lore was embarrassing cringe They were salty that the books were making them look like the hack writers they were

[@flatarthur3161]

@@sami-scott4160 The Bungie canon is better.

[@ashman8891]

A Human Forerunner alliance may be the only way to deal with the AI rebellion.

[@JACCO20082012]

I read somewhere that the ancient humans were space faring for a million years before the war with the forerunners. I've looked for it since then and can't find it. Anyone have an idea of whether that is true?

[@Ilikeavocados123]

They were around when the precursors tested them, 10M years before the flood forerunner war

[@fadelsukoco3092]

That is true, but the Human species suffered an unknown number of technological Dark Ages between then and the Human Empire that existed in the Flood era, which was founded only a bit more than 50,000 years before the Flood became a thing.

[@Angry_Peanut_52]

Well, there is a massive time gap between the Forerunner-Precursor War and the Human-Forerunner War of approximately 9.9 million years. The Forerunners were already space-faring before that time gap.

[@imperialtsar2839]

Oh shit I get to watch a new video right when it comes out hell yeah keep up the good work love the series you should definitely do some bioshock

[@donaldham308]

Even this, only encompasses one arm of the galaxy. Insane.

[@nirvanajew1]

Whenever I hear someone say "Thousands of years ago..." I think of the Cybernetic Ghost of Christmas Past from ATHF.

[@desuordie4856]

Wait a minute. Were the ancient ahimans just stu

[@SooWavyFliiBoiWalt]

If the Precusors said Humanity was next up for the Mantle then why use them as a Guinea pig to consume the forerunners? Also just imagine if the forerunners x ancient humans came together to fight the flood. The Primordial would have no choice to but to respect that & hand the mantle to them both

[@cr90captain89]

because the primordial recognized that if the humans were beaten by the forerunners without a seemingly miracle cure happening, the forerunners would have exterminated humanity then & there. that is the only reason a handful were kept alive the primordial & thus the flood knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of the forerunners cruelty, having experienced it himself ten million years prior. & how would humanity be tested for the mantle if there were no humans left? the flood under the primordial still held the mantle's tenants as absolute. after the primordia's first death & the birth of the gravemind, it slowly lost itself to misery and revenge. until it no longer cared for the mantle.

[@aurelian2668]

The flood are like a broken mixed minds of all the surviving precursors. They also planned to bait the forerunners resulting in humanity being turned into prehistoric humans. Which allowed the flood to trick the forerunners by feigning defeat from the humans.

[@uberx2447]

Honestly, post 343 story telling is much better than the Bungie's original takes on ancient forerunner tech. The idea that humanity was a devolved off-shoot of the forerunners wasn't super interesting and told a really weird story for why humanity was reseeded after the Forerunner-Flood wars. The 343 take makes much more sense and gives a lot more interesting story telling facets than what was originally there.

[@estarossa1847]

I totally agree

[@tizarrior7389]

Bungie's idea doesn't make sense if you think about it for mode than 5 seconds

[@dartharbiter2334]

Perhaps the reason why the covenant was waging war against humans was because maybe the sanshyum had ancient records that blamed humanity for the flood so the prophets wanted to wipe out humanity to stop them from doing it again or just for payback

[@WiseFish]

Well considering how much Forerunner technology they had it probably was that they saw records that they disliked humanity so wouldn’t surprise me that’s why they attacked them and their involvement with the flood as well. But then I do wonder if they ever knew that they held an alliance together or not.

[@visitingforgefather5997]

No the problem was that the Covenant was build on the idea that if the Halo array was activated they would all be raised to Godhood, which they believed happened to the Forerunners. When they mistook Humans for Forerunners they again misinterpreted this by thinking this meant while some would be raised to godhood others would be 'left behind'. This information could actually destroy the Covenant since it goes against everything they build it on. So to maintain power the Prophets kept this information to themselves and launched a genocidal campaign to cover it up.

[@UnholyWrath3277]

The existence of humans as the "reclaimers" completely disproved the covenants religion and would've made the entire covenant obsolete so they waged war to prevent that knowledge from getting out. The san shyuum we're never shown to know of the floods existence prior to halo CE

[@bnk3rmk259]

@Darth Arbiter, sorry to burst your bubble but the actual reason why the covenant declared war on Humanity was because, the three prophets were told BY mendicant bias, that their Forerunner "reclamation" symbol is actually the symbol for Reclaimer, in other words Human. If word got out, it would cause a total collapse of the Covenant.

[@fadelsukoco3092]

Honestly, it would be really cool to see a story set in a timeline where that WAS the case. Imagine if the fragment of Mendicant Bias told the Prophets that humanity are the true Reclaimers of the Forerunner legacy but they already had knowledge from Forerunner sources that said stuff about the Human-Forerunner War and the first recorded instances of the Flood. Instead of hiding the evidence and making the lie that they did to prevent the Covenant religion from unraveling, the Prophets could reveal that the Humans were the cause of the downfall of the Forerunners at the hand of the Flood. It would have so much more impact and strengthen the faith of the Covenant, as it really was a case of not only Humanity's existence being an affront to the will of their gods, but the reason why they fell from grace and bringing evil to all the galaxy for a time.

[@louissnipe6778]

Everyone here should listen to the first album by a band called Shadow of intent. Pull up the lyrics if you have to. Very worth.

[@jonbranch710]

Outstanding video! Glad to be a subscriber

[@mattmacdonald3212]

I hope we get a game from this era

[@datrevmeister]

I always wondered, what did the Primordial know or say to ancient humanity to make them kill themselves??

[@truxtonbrown9151]

Like the video content but info around 11:47 is just flat out wrong. The precursor technology was not created nor gathered by humans. Most technology that was used the the last battle was already on charum hakkor( i.e. orbital arches, star roads, etc.) by the time ancient humans found it. What they did is build bases and cities on the orbital arches and liked defense stations with star roads.

[@abusedumpster8882]

343’s prehistory lore is fucking bonkers.

[@FireChicken747]

In my opinion I think humans were probably just as if not more advanced because of the fact that if you watch a video on how the forerunners lived they have no creativity whatsoever meanwhile humans were full of ideas and creative ( however to cut it down short forrunners in humans with the most advanced species in the universe right behind the precursors in the flood)

[@eeliejun]

Yeah, find it strange that the video is hammering how advanced the forerunners were in compersion to humanity even tho they fought a two way war and even then could hold them off for thousand of years.

[@FireChicken747]

Yea and it was like 1,000+ years and a lot of the human worlds and resources were already destroyed or infected by the flood during that time. So even tho the human lost. It was still not an easy process for the forerunners. I would have liked to know what would happen if they fought the humans at their full power

[@eeliejun]

@@FireChicken747 Yeah, like if Humanity was so desperate to attack another huge empire to flee they would need to be on their back legs. To me from the lore it seems we and the Forerunners were on the same tech level or even over it because if the Forerunners were so advanced it is strange we could fight them and take whole planets and exterminate the population on the planets. Like it is insane humans could have held so long on because the Forerunner empire was intact and only had a one-way fight that needed to be fought and doubt they held back after the humans started to kill whole planets. I think from how we know the lore that humanity would win in the end or be killed by the halo rings if the Forerunners kept on track.

[@Angry_Peanut_52]

​@eeliejun Humanity wasn't even at its full strength. They genetically altered a 1/3 of their population with genes design to fight the Flood biomass and sacrifice them to the flood.

[@matiasgallardoaraya3842]

Nice video bro, thank you.

[@generizze6243]

Lol ancient humans looks like the emperah of man. They are 9ft to 12ft too lol.

[@matts2581]

Excellent assembly of information. :)

[@MiguelG8GT]

They should make a series on this

[@coastaboi747]

Makes you wonder. Was there previously a highly technologically advanced human race all those thousands of years ago. Definitely begs the question!

[@AlanPayne.]

Good video Man!

[@olindavis5437]

Good video man

[@victornneji913]

At what point were the Halo installations built and unless i missed it i didnt hear anything on the role of the Rings in halting the floods expansion.

[@mordeythan1637]

Be interesting if any ancient human ships escaped an went into stasis. Only to be reunited with their recent lore counterparts....

[@prelien4690]

Great vid!!

[@spencerhammond1299]

Such a well done video

[@ARuiz-eu3hk]

So basically this war is due to poor communication. Gotcha.

[@july9566]

Aren’t they all ?

[@williamwilson1222]

@@july9566not at all.

[@LuisAngelRamirez7]

The way you tell the story is confusing. You jump back and forth from past and future without much warning.

[@elijahaitaok8624]

forerunners calling humans bigoted and self centered is just rich, at least the humans formed alliances with other species

[@peterowley2014]

Great narrator great video!

[@Nightwolf0301]

What's the source of the animated shots of the ancient humans? Would love to see it for myself.

[@WiseFish]

Terminal 3 from Halo 4 titled the Lord Of Admirals is them in the ship and then the little village is also from the terminals in H4

[@Nightwolf0301]

@@WiseFish thanks.

[@LactusTheIntolerant]

You seriously deserve a million subscribers, WiseFish👏

[@kevinwiltshire2217]

It looks like they just had a communication problem

[@roachct9076]

You noticed that every major conflict in halo happened because of lack of communication or dumb ideas

[@dariustiapula]

They look like my people. Space-Polynessians. At least to me.

[@dankestbrit7337]

Ah, the Polynesian spa.

[@digitalninja5941]

From the Forerunner trilogy we learn that the ancient humans are for the most part the combination of all human types. For example us right now and all the other human species that went extinct thousands of years ago.

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

There's a lot of miss understanding from a highly technologically advanced species.

[@leroydawn9521]

I have a question, how in the world did the forerunners manager to annihilate the precursors. The precursors were waaaaay more advanced and like you said tier zero. How in the world could they lose so bad to their own creation??

[@gavinwallander4693]

They just kinda rolled over and died, but not completely cause the flood are still technically precursors just heavily corrupted.

[@leroydawn9521]

@@gavinwallander4693 I would love for the halo world to explore that arc. I understand the forerunners destroyed or suppressed all informations from that era but damn, why the precursors just rolled over and died only to be corrupted by the thought of revenge. I use to think they allowed it to happen to see how it would play out as their thinking probably exceeded ours but damn why want revenge, I somewhat feel like the primordial may have been lying a bit, who knows

[@gavinwallander4693]

@@leroydawn9521 yeah and I think I heard something about it being a cultural thing and something about the experiences of the universe and how they thought the universe is a living being which is slightly terrifying considering how intelligent they were. I dont know if its actually cannon tho I cant remember exactly where I heard it from.

[@fadelsukoco3092]

@@leroydawn9521 IIRC the novels describe it as the Precursors just collectively being in a "bruh" trance due to the sheer disbelief that some of the species that they had created would be able to do something this bad. That, and they firmly believed in the natural balance of the universe and that all things, good and bad, were part of it. So when the Forerunners rebelled, they went "well, I guess it's just my time. No use whining about it."

[@Angry_Peanut_52]

The Precursors did not defend themselves and simply marveled at the sheer violence the Forerunners were capable of

[@fhffvgju6299]

Why would they willingly infect their pets with an unknown pathogen. Even if it seems harmless doing smt like that is idiotic

[@mickeytran1936]

forerunners did a space version of the blitzkrieg xdd

[@lukegrev1433]

Can anyone tell me how I find these movies of the ancient humans that this guy is using?

[@WiseFish]

I do read the comments dude just ask me lol it’s from all of the Halo 4 terminals :)

[@lukegrev1433]

@@WiseFish fair play mate. Your the first KZbinr to reply to one of my comments lol. Thanks buddy. Love the vids BTW 👍🏻

[@WiseFish]

@@lukegrev1433 anytime dude and thanks for checking the vids out :)

[@manadol69]

We need update

[@Dumb-Comment]

So time travel wasn't a thing in the Halo universe

[@RikardoAHP]

Human Forerrunner war is like saying Ant Human war

[@thomasvillani5616]

So.. the flood wanted to preserve humanity?

[@BayouBoy2443]

All of this because the Forerunners threw a pissy fit that they weren’t made gods of the Galaxy

[@robertb7230]

IMO the lore was more compelling when Ancient Humanity was actually the same as the Forerunners. In Halo 2/3, humans were written as people reclaiming their own lost empire, was a tighter story overall and made the whole irony behind the covenant hating humans but worshiping forerunners all the better.

[@NotARussianDisinfoBot]

I agree. I thought it was strange that 343i changed that, when there was all sorts of evidence in the books and the games themselves hinting at humanity being the forerunners, and 343 Guilty Spark confirmed it on two occasions. In Halo CE on the mission The Maw, as he is downloading all the files from the Pillar of Autumn, he says "A record of all of our lost time. Human history, is it? Fascinating." And then at the end of Halo 3, he tells the Master Chief "You ARE forerunner, but this ring is MINE."

[@cold_lunch2]

It was already changed by the time halo 3 came out. Bungie made the change not 343

[@robertb7230]

@@cold_lunch2 Naa, if you look into it it was "half changed". That's why Halo 3 alludes to both. The half of the crew that remained with Bungi still referenced humans as forerunner, while the half that were going to 343 swapped to the new lore. 343 didn't exist yet, but 343 did make this change. I suspect a big reason 343 was even created as a company is this creative division (Bungi wanted the story to be done with 3, with humanity reclaiming its place as Forerunner--343 wanted a bigger, more complex universe.)

[@cold_lunch2]

@@robertb7230 Maybe, but all you have to do is read the terminals in Halo 3 to see they had made the decision before 343.

[@CaptainPilipinas]

that's what I heard bungie writers were supposed to put on, until the Lore and story of the halo [Grape]'s went over to 343 just for them to finish the franchise continuously outside of bungie.