Hard Surface Modeling Essentials: Curved Surfaces

[@kandysman86]

Just so people know, if you use blender, all of this is still applicable. Just different hotkeys and tool names. Thanks guys, flipped normals are awesome. You saved me from being a zbrush cowboy.

[@TheMASTERFURIOUS]

true, I watched tutorials of modeling principles done in 3ds Max, I don't pay attention to the hotkeys shown there.

[@FlippedNormals]

Awesome! That's great to hear :D

[@chamade166]

If u can’t hard surface in Zbrush u got no game. Maya too slow to iterate hard surface unless u got a totally worked out concept beforehand.

[@HUNrobar]

How do you slide vertex on surface in Blender, like in this video? The closes I found was Slide vertices (SHIFT+V or G,G while vertex selected) but that only slides along edges, not the surface of the mesh itself.

[@uzairbukhari99]

Wow even 3 yrs later this info is a gem. Thanks guys

[@beachhunter2687]

This tutorial has covered the very foundation of hard surface modelling.

[@AlexTsekot]

For the OCD people out there, I once saw a really good explanation of subd modeling : subd modeling is all about tradeoffs, you don't want to reach for perfect cad-like models because you'll pull your hair out. Subd is about balance between production speed and visual quality.

[@JasonH-i5t]

You just may have saved my future on 3D. I get so obsessed over literally non existent shading issues, i spent an hour on a pinch noone else can see hesterday...

[@CopycatStudiosLA]

I cant handle subD. Cos I m OCD

[@dimitrydanchev4546]

Great video! Don't you just love the multi-cut tool, I don't even use the insert edge tool anymore. Btw, you probably know this but for those who don't, if you hold ctrl+shift it goes into slide edge mode which I personally find extremely helpful, you don't have to go and turn it on from the modeling toolkit.

[@markjackson7621]

Ah that's good to know. I'm still learning Maya. I was thinking, "Man, in blender it's just "GG" for edge slide." It makes sense that Maya has a hotkey for it. I'm slowly realising that most experienced Maya users know and use the hotkeys and make their own custom keymap. I need to do that myself is ever want to be able to model as fast in Maya as I can in blender.

[@JeffydimWitt2nd]

Oh my gosh, this is so perfectly timed, I was going to try to do some hard surface modeling today, and sure enough i get the notification for this video! Thanks for the great content guys!

[@flint3Dx]

Same! I was modeling a harp from Zelda and had to stick one pipe into another right when I got this notification. Great timing as always guys!

[@FlippedNormals]

Awesome :D Super happy to help!

[@DavidAllen_0]

I saw this video awhile back when I first got Maya and this went far over my head. Rewatched it now and learned a lot! Thanks guys!

[@WeThePuppets]

Would be awesome if you guys did a deep-dive on hard surface bevels, covering things like how sharp they should be, when to use varying sizes, how to tie them into other geometry, etc. Thanks!

[@daveZoo]

In my opinion it is faster to make holes into an object with the new circularize tool. (Edit Mesh -> Circularize)

[@daveZoo]

It has an alignment property, set it to surface (average).

[@daveZoo]

If the "evenly distribute" option is on, It will be twisted. That can look very messy, maybe that was the problem. Of course, in some cases, this tool is not the perfect solution. The technique in this video is still very useful.

[@taylorbrown129]

much much faster

[@FlippedNormals]

Thans for the heads up! We'll probably make a video on this technique too :) Like we say in the video, so many different ways of solving these things.

[@rendericeib4513]

@@daveZoo same in 3ds max..... constraint to face with regularize tool

[@Sylversun90]

dayum... 5 years in movie production and modeling supervision... and I only discover now the "TAB" paint selection key... Thanks mates !

[@hani_issa]

Same here :))))

[@hani_issa]

Please do more videos about this topic !! You guys are awesome !

[@jaberah3]

I am so blessed that I found your channel!

[@acceptingseeking]

Best channel I ve ever found. Thanks.

[@FlippedNormals]

Wow, thanks a lot! Much appreciated.

[@pauljs75]

Sometimes when making holes into curved surfaces like this, a temporary object can come in handy to act as a conformal surface to better control the geometry. Not sure with this software, but in Blender it'd be something like making a copy of the big cylinder before putting the hole into it. Then if additional geometry like the surrounding loops cause pinching you assign those areas to vertex groups. Then you use the shrinkwrap modifier on the mesh with that vertex group to put those pinched areas smartly back onto the surface defined by the temporary copy. (Sometimes for roundness, a subdiv on the temp object also helps.) A bit harder to explain than just doing it, but I'd think most could figure out the principle. (And there's a couple of videos on it.)

[@jaidenoliver7165]

It's a late reply, but if anyone sees this, in maya that's basically the same as duplicating the cylinder and making it a live surface with the little lock icon up the top. That allows you to slide points and edges and they stay stuck to the cylinder shape.

[@onem0repixel]

OMG I jumped of my chair at 1:04 when the second guy talked !!! That was an unexpected voice twist, It's scary guys XD

[@clintmcmahan3792]

Finetune adjustments in a tools editor window by clicking on the blue "pie" with a slice missing in the top right corner of the window. The "pie" will show a different portion and this adjusts at what increment Thickness, Local Translate Z, Offset, etc are changed in.

[@AerysBat]

Loving these in-depth topics videos you guys have been doing recently! This kind of info is super valuable!

[@FlippedNormals]

Thatrs awesome to hear! Thanks a lot :D

[@Stories_behind_the_eye]

Yes! My focus is being taught. Thanks guys!

[@sveinndagur]

Your point about Booleans being a mess is why I use Modo for my modeling. MOP booleans for the win!

[@FlippedNormals]

MOP is fantastic! It's such a great tool.

[@bradenrobins299]

Great Job! I really appreciate this series.

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks a lot!

[@SewerShark]

You could also use the bevel too with Chamfer option turned off to add the supporting edges.

[@FlippedNormals]

Yup! Plenty of ways of doing this :)

[@daniboiyy]

Yay 😁 another hard surface modeling-video!

[@FlippedNormals]

Glad you like it :D

[@johnkeane8551]

I find the process of using booleans in maya 2018 far easier than previous versions, unless your object has a lot of history, things "usually" work fine and the clean up isn't too bad when you consider this method you have to do all these cuts and booleans is one click then a few target welds and you are done. Think your guys videos are great just I am a big advocate of using booleans for hard surface in maya 2018.

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks for your comment. Booleans have improved significantly over the years, for sure. We might do a separate video on those. We still think these fundamental videos are useful - but you're right, booleans definitely have their place.

[@thescreamingwing5068]

Excellent info as usual. Keep up the good work.

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks a lot, Jason!

[@sensoji3084]

Great tutorial. I'd like to see cylinders with bends in them, like pipes, as those can deform like crazy with bad topology.

[@FlippedNormals]

That's a good idea!

[@izaya65]

Loved this video. Would love more hard surface videos

[@FlippedNormals]

Thanks! We'd love to make more too.

[@izaya65]

FlippedNormals I'm really glad to hear it. I always see loads of hard surface videos done in 3ds max. Would love to see more Maya related videos, and with your shared experience they'll be good.

[@TheMASTERFURIOUS]

Really good video on the topic. Thanks guys.

[@rixhhh2392]

Hey guys sweet video again, not sure if its the same but I usually use "Ctrl + Shift" and dragging vertices along edges instead of constraints, saves a bunch of time. I also had a couple quick questions, one is about intersecting geometry in visual effects hard surface models and second is the use of CAD models like MOI 3d and fusion, I know Vitaly uses it a ton so I was curious how that translates into production? Thanks again guys

[@FlippedNormals]

Very nice! Thanks for the tip. CAD can basically only be used for concepting, as they'll have to be retopoed completely before they are ingested into the pipeline. Far too heavy to work with and impossible to UV map.

[@AlexTsekot]

Tip : if you are unsure about your final model , don't go and cut holes into the cylinders using this method, use booleans instead. These holes are nearly impossible to resize once you 'commit' to this method so I would suggest doing it quick and dirty until you are happy with your proportions etc THEN come back and rebuild it with subd.

[@samcraftYT]

That

[@threecolonist]

circularize tool is far better, don't mind @flippednormals, this is an old school technique. Nowadays used circularize or boolean(it's pretty advanced). I will make a video on that soon for advance user.

[@UlrishthePro]

If you want to quickly add support edges just use bevel and turn off chamfer.

[@utubeparpankaj]

Hi Flipped Normals U guys are doing a great Job I request you to pls make a video on the efficiency of ShrinkWrap deformer. If we can use that on smooth surfaces for the removel of dents and bumps.

[@Altohamy]

To see Full portfolio on behance: www.behance.net/Altohamy This is my showcase of Year 2018. kzbin.info/www/bejne/omWYnYWHZ9x8fJo

[@PieroStuff]

Thank you guys for covering this topic! I never know when stop being too strict about clean topology and this video actually helped a bit and about this I'd like to ask you a question: Does this video mean that a slight "bump" along the hole external borders is ok?

[@tommykho4348]

maya loop chamfer can perfectly add double loops both inside and outside. i think maya 2018 has those feature already.

[@nota4802]

That you for making the video, its really helpful. I hope more hard surface tips are on its way, as a series of tutorials ;)

[@FlippedNormals]

We're looking into that :)

[@eliasdegasperi_art]

Awesome video!!

[@joselavigne14]

We want more! Thanks so much

[@FlippedNormals]

Awesome! Good to hear. We'll be sure to make more videos like this.

[@SewerShark]

Nice. Could you discuss the same approach, only with rectangular shapes? And maybe some weird shapes as well?

[@FlippedNormals]

We've been talking about it, as you're right, thats a different challenge for sure.

[@JMTBFLOW]

Cheers for this, boys. Appreciate the free content :) How about a video on the fundamentals of high to low polygon baking covering the do's and don'ts and common errors to look out for?

[@FlippedNormals]

We've been thinking about this and it would be a fun! No promises though.

[@vipermjs]

the problem with extruding inward is that you cannot maintain the exact shape of the original cylander. with more complex shapes, this becomes a problem or can even no longer be an option. a more precise way is to project curves or do a double boolean for the inner and outer rings. cleaned booleans are usually the best way to attach complex shapes.

[@wordsshackles441]

What do you mean by « project curbed » ?

[@sreekar443]

Hi What if you need to do 10 of these circular extrusions. Is it just the same process to do for 10x or can you copy the features?

[@gibrankaleel9089]

Hey Bois, FN Scrub here. Was watching an Adam Duff (LucidPixul) "Motivational" video and somehow ended up here. (Go-Figure. Lol) And I've been hooked since. :) Watched all your discussion & workflow videos so far and I F'ing Love It! Thanks for keeping it real guys. Your years of friendship and experiences as artists together really come through the way you guys do your show! You compliment each other extremely well and it's really rare to see that in Art/CG Related Podcasts. Also your Tutorials are Badass 'n Ballin Hard! (Will let you two decide who's the Badass and who's the Baller.) :D Do you guys record the podcasts from your own places over discord/skype or are you guys actually sitting next to each other like a radio show? (You should totally have your own radio show btw.) When watching the videos, I always imagine the latter being the case. :D Would love a studio tour someday from the two of yous. :) Favorite Podcast = One with Emilie Stabell. Should deffo have her on the show more often. She sure seemed to enjoy it. ;) (Oh, that poor girl. Lol) PS: I'm one of those filthy Blender peasants you guys keep joking about (Lol), but 2.8 is coming along nicely. Been using it daily and crashes are fixed almost instantly. The Dev team might be small but they sure mean business. Lotta partnerships with big studios and tech corps coming in the following months. Hope you boys will keep an eye out for it. B) Come take a peek into the crazy world of Blender Development. Feedback from Experienced & Vocal Artists like you guys are definitely what help shape the future for Blender & the Industry. So feel free to get your fingers, toes 'n tongues dirty and participate. (We don't bite, Much... Lol) code.blender.org/ developer.blender.org/ Here are some A+ Hard-Surface Add-ons made by Blender Enthusiasts. You might already know about them, but if you're planning on covering some crazy Hard-Surface Concept Tools & Workflows. Give these ones a look see. Hard-Ops by masterXeon1001: www.blendermarket.com/products/hardopsofficial BoxCutter by masterXeon1001: www.blendermarket.com/products/boxcutter-6 DECALmachine by Machin3: blendermarket.com/products/DECALmachine MESHmachine by Machin3: blendermarket.com/products/MESHmachine They've both got YT channels showing off some crazy art and features for the tools. Jonathan Lampel from CGC did a great stream on the Machine tools. Deffo worth the watch. :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pWimhaqEe7xohJo Love you guys, Love your content and can't wait to see what's next. More creature sculpts with a nut-sack(tm)? xD Cheers from Sri-Lanka. (Yeah, don't bother trying to find it. Might as well consider me an alien at this point. Lol)

[@ItsXDaniC]

Actually when It comes to circular forms, you don't need power of 2, you can use any number divisible by 4, so you have a division on top, bottom, left and right

[@garrettdehart4988]

There was a helmet in the secret of triangles video, how would you even start with something like that? Things that conform to an organic shape like chest armor, helmets etc... my first thought is to do something like quad draw and refine from that but the change in direction and shape on that helmet look so complex. I guess its just where do you start?

[@onlybooleans]

Hey Garret I'm no expert but to my knowledge they sculpt the helmet first and then do retopology to get the sharp edges. Search for hard surface sculpting in youtube and you'll get an idea on how they do these kind of hard surface object. Hope this answered your question. :D

[@FlippedNormals]

That one is a really tricky shape to make. It was concept sculpted in ZBrush and then retopoed in Maya. When you retopo something like that, you need to really plan out the topology before you get into details.

[@strandedpirate6346]

What's the purpose of going back and forth between smooth mode (3) and normal mode (1)? Are you eventually going to apply Mesh -> Smooth operation to the whole model? Is there a video where you explain the full modeling workflow such as low poly -> smooth -> high poly. Some of your other vids show high poly (zbrush) to low poly via retopo so I'm confused when each flow should be used.

[@wirrexx]

On the polycount forums (wirrexx) the how to f modell this shape forum, this question pops out everytime. And no matter how many times me, Perna or Earthquake or someone else explains it. Someone still asks this question again. :D

[@shakeakt]

Thanks! This help me a lot! But I do have other problem about curved surface. I try to make a rectangle on curved surface, but when I more edge to maintain the rectangle shape the curve surface will become too shape. Is there any tips for me to solve this problem?

[@nokedlipudinggal8276]

Hey guys, I have something for you. I work on a car model and have to cut out venting holes on the windshield cowling. The whole thing curves left and right, asymmetric. bends and tapers. I would love to see your take on how would you cut the holes out on something like that. It's the Nissan 300zx should you wonder. I did one side but took me like 2-3 hours to clean up after booleans. I want to try something different so I was thinking to actually clean it up in Zbrush. Cut the holes in Maya, bring it over to Z and polish by feature and whatnot to bevel. Use Zremesher after. I know you guys don't like that but the geometry is already heavy so what is the damage? Would love to hear others and you on this.

[@ave1996]

This is what I've been searching for a very long time. I learned a lot from you guys. By the way, how do you put welding effects on the edge of two steels? Thanks!

[@mtschutte18]

Hey man, thanks for an awesome video!

[@FlippedNormals]

No worries at all!

[@viktor12ru]

I think meshmachine / hardops addon is available for maya as well...check me on that... Saves so much time if I need to create or pre-create hard surface mesh. Those integrated tools happens to be terribly destructive and makes you really plan ahead and when messed up tend to spend even more time unnecessarily. Keep lovely vids going!

[@FlippedNormals]

Ah yes, those are great! Thanks for the heads up.

[@3dprintwiz378]

Just wanted to ask why Fusion can do this in less than three clicks while maya and blender do it at a hundred.

[@tyunpeters8686]

Kinda wish he said or displayed what keys he was pressing to do all this cool stuff

[@MaheeVFX]

nice dud. whats the shortcut for merge center...?

[@rahulrichard912]

Thanks Guys..

[@FlippedNormals]

No worries!

[@Strubey]

If you're using Maya 2018, what about the new circularize tool? Is this still necessary? I guess most studios still haven't updated to Maya 2018 yet though. Also for the supporting edges you could just bevel the edge and turn off chamfer to get the support loops.

[@FlippedNormals]

Circularize is really handy! It's a not a replacement for what we're showing in the video though, as we have curved surfaces here.

[@Strubey]

@@FlippedNormals Doesn't the circularize tool have an option to conform to curved surfaces as well? I haven't used it a lot so maybe it's not that robust but I know i've done it before.

[@Azzazel_]

i'm surprised that barely noone is talking about the crease tool when doing things like that... i mean support loops are necessary some times but working with crease saves you geometry

[@FlippedNormals]

The crease tool is really handy! That said, keep in mind that a lot of productions cant use creasing due to pipeline reasons, but great tool!

[@noeflores2978]

What is the secret to not having the center of the cylinder bulge out when doing this? I did it but the center wants to push out and the cylinder is no longer clean and smooth.

[@wordsshackles441]

Did you ever find a solution ?

[@spjet82]

I er de bedste drenge elsker det! :)

[@WolverineMKD]

Can you do this for blender ?

[@orlanswf]

I don't get it, why should I worry about how my model looks in the smooth visualization mode? I'd love if you could explain me that!

[@WeThePuppets]

Because typically in film/vfx modeling, the polygons will be rendered subdivided several times. Meaning your lowpoly model won't have to be 5 million polys to look smooth in the viewport, but at rendertime, it will look like it was highpoly.

[@arturperzyna5453]

Instead using cylinder, nowadays one can use circularize with alignment "surface per vertex".

[@ronak8637]

Making details on a cylindrical surface is always a pain in the ass

[@FlippedNormals]

Yes.. Yes it is.

[@iplaybose]

Can you please make a video about creating square details on a cylinder ? From my point of view thats the hardest thing to achieve because its almost impossible to smooth it our without ruining the cylinder shape

[@FlippedNormals]

Do you have a visual example of this? It's a bit hard to imagine.

[@iplaybose]

Hey! Heres 2 pics I took: i.imgur.com/oWfP7W8.jpg i.imgur.com/rXLz4Di.jpg So, basically I find it impossible to harden out that square detail on the cylinder, because if you add those long supporting edges to harder the square shape, you are going to in fact, ruin the cylindrical shape when smoothing, I would like to know how to successfully smooth that detail out without ruining the cylinder shape ( due to edge loops ) Cheers fellas

[@FlippedNormals]

Ah, thats a great example. Thanks. This is something we can talk about.

[@iplaybose]

Cheers!!

[@wordsshackles441]

@@iplayboseyou will need more cylindrical resolution.

[@markjackson7621]

What was the name of that 3D artist you mentioned. Something like Vitalic Vertillo? I must have typed it wrong because I can't find him/her

[@FlippedNormals]

www.artstation.com/vbulgarov

[@markjackson7621]

@@FlippedNormals Wow, thank you!

[@davidferrera2927]

FlippedNormals do you have a topology course?

[@FlippedNormals]

Not yet, but we're working on it! :)

[@Radicalshikami]

Is there a good way to use booleans? i feel like they just destroy my mesh.

[@FlippedNormals]

There can be, but they often require a lot of cleanup. They are awesome for concepting, though.

[@amuchaudhary2152]

hey guys please make a video for hard surface sculpting in zbrush it would be a great help

[@maxplank3782]

Tx

[@feistyferret7299]

Arbitrarily scales the first cylinder. My CAD brain screams in pain. :)

[@wordsshackles441]

😂 same

[@fiazali2585]

where is its 3rd part randring taxturing?

[@lazyfingrz]

its a skill one must develop to have square polygons on his/her models ...

[@MR3DDev]

But doing it in Zbrush with the new Booleans is so much easier..........just kidding, thanks for the video ;)

[@FlippedNormals]

Woa.. I was about to write a strongly worded comment here :D

[@MrEricdefro]

Insert square- holes into cylinders?

[@getrekt8365]

I guess your option would work more for a concept phase while if you want something more specific you have to model it the old fashioned way.

[@62Tob]

hmmmm do you know the boolean? Much faster and clean if you prepare your model before....

[@FlippedNormals]

With this method, you get good and clean topology you can use. If you use booleans, you have to clean up a lot.

[@CopycatStudiosLA]

Its hard to see wha tool he was using.

[@jaberah3]

1:38 when you say "inserting shapes into other shapes" are you implying booleans?

[@FlippedNormals]

You can - but mostly placing shapes like spheres and properly cutting them out. Booleans will leave you with very bad topology if youre not careful.

[@jaberah3]

@@FlippedNormals What about flat surfaces? Would booleans cause problems with flat shapes(i.e cubes)?

[@AlexMRL]

There has to be some sort of plugin to do this much much faster =P

[@FlippedNormals]

Probably! We're showing this as it's still a good foundational skill to have.

[@AlexMRL]

@@FlippedNormals Defiantly true! Your videos are great, seen tons of them!

[@cyffrowy2882]

11:24 how to merge points like that???

[@wenzor1105]

You can do it by pressing Shift+Right Mouse Button and fast move mouse in top direction. But do it quick to avoid opening extra options for merging components.

[@az397]

well I have to restart

[@douka3993]

gotta go fast

[@nodesofnature603]

Ohh we all know you are used to ctrlq because you didn’t know about ctrl1 at the time :))

[@FlippedNormals]

Shhhhhh, dont tell anyone!

[@eatmykwad]

thought I could model lol

[@FlippedNormals]

Ha :D

[@SystemRush]

Couldn't you just use the fucking bevel tool to add holding edges instead of "planning ahead" like you can do you and all, but I don't see why there needs to be 4 fucking loops or so added, and why you couldn't just edge slide the vertices around to eliminate Tris, and the clean up of preforming a boolean operation with the cylinder on the other cylinder is hardly clean up, all you'd have to do is take the knife or cut tool, and then just go into front or side or whichever way is the round side of the cylinder, then make a cut with whatever option that allows a cut to go through the mesh in Maya.

[@vipermjs]

booleans give u a quicker and better result

[@FlippedNormals]

The downside is you don't have subd ready topology any more though. But booleans can be a great base, or even better if it doesnt need to be smoothed and you don't mind the higher polycount

[@truthspeaker7878]

not blender, thumbs down