Has the Sexual Revolution Failed Women? | Intelligence Squared

[@grantstratton2239]

I just want the women on this panel to know that there are many men out there that are anti-porn. I think the problems of having the conversation is the following: 1. Feminists tend to be left-leaning and men who are against porn are largely right-leaning and the coalition is not a natural one, especially in the context of growing political division. 2. Porn. like many addictions, is something men are driven to often at first out of curiosity, but afterward in an attempt to deal with loneliness, stress, rejection, and powerlessness. It's something men become trapped in and the truth of the matter is that both men and women are victimized by porn, but in different ways. My sense is there is a large underground of men who know that porn is bad for them but are trapped in it and feel like they can't talk about their experiences without being treated like they are the problem. 3. Women are increasingly become involved in porn as consumers, and that means more men involved in the production of pornography, and my sense is that this growing issue is too often relegated to being a footnote. 4. There is a general cultural bias towards men being radically responsible for their own actions, and therefore radically responsible for their own problems, while women with problems are more often viewed as victims of circumstance and society. Being victims of a sexist double-standard, or being afraid of being the victims of a sexist double-standard, keeps men from allying with feminists on issues that are in both of their interests to solve.

[@nez2598]

Pretty outrageous of the host to refer to men as 'natural rapists' - I'm glad Louise picked-her-up on this phrase.

[@orangecat999]

Some evolutionary biologists say it's men's 3rd reproductive strategy though (mostly during team aggression such as war, gangs, etc) ; so perhaps that's where the idea is coming from?

[@7HillsRVA]

@@orangecat999then we could say that anyone is a natural murderer under similar circumstances. We could also say things like women are natural opportunists biologically speaking when it comes to choosing the opposite sex. Is any of that fair?

[@thisoldgoat3927]

Not surprising since she's a feminist.

[@gumdeo]

Perhaps a very small number of men are inclined that way.

[@dakotamadeleinel.1973]

@@orangecat999 I'd say there is a percentage of men who are inclined towards sexual violence but its not the majority (I hope not, anyway)

[@josemelrose5465]

When Onlyfans made it possible for women to be the creators of pornography MILLIONS of women signed up to be pornographers. Maybe look into that.

[@mein2020]

🙏

[@annahalat6303]

would they still do it outside of capitalism though? if the ultimate goal wasn't ("easy") profit?

[@onesavedvoice]

That was incoherent.

[@zeno2501]

"I like to leave my marriage as a black box because it doesn't just belong to me so it's not really appropriate to just talk about it on the internet" from Mary So much respect, dignity, accountability and maturity contained in that My experience is that many women, especially younger women, do not view their relationships with men in that way at all, women will speak publicly about their relationships as if it is only their business, as if they have a right to say what they like about their relationships because it is part of their lives, and sometimes do so in a clear effort to control their partners, air dirty laundry to guilt and shame their partner There is a real sense of union and compromise in the language Mary uses when asked about her marriage and family I admire Mary a lot

[@winterskiU]

I disagree that pornography has had no effect on society other than sexual taste. 1 in 3 men under 30 are either virgins or haven't had sex in over a year. Most relationships nowadays are being started by some sort of online dating. Looking at dating data men select at least 50% of women, whereas women select 5 - 15% of men. A recent study showed that around 62% of men under 30 are single, whilst 32% of women report being single (so possibly dating other women/older men/the same men). Basically, the average man is not getting much sex at all. Whilst a very select few are doing exceptionally well. We have a polygamous dating market right now. Or an unofficial harem for a small number of men (who women are picking). As these men don't have to work very hard and don't have to offer much in return as the women are chasing them. Typically, polygamous societies are in a state of constant turmoil as you have a bunch of young men who have no access to women, so engage in riskier behaviour as they have nothing to lose. Violence goes up, crime goes up. However currently in West crime overall has been trending down. This is likely due to increased porn and gaming consumption (as well as the constant attack on masculinity), which is sedating men

[@BlackPrimeMinister]

This is a good comment. I was very disappointed with the tone of this discussion. It was the same old victim-feminist rubbish.

[@JeffCaplan313]

People who study economic inequality are scared to investigate sexual inequality, because the extremes are even more profound.

[@skylinefever]

I often say that if it wasn't for p*hub and video games, the incel riots would have already happenned.

[@isabellenez-tovar803]

This is very well observed

[@independentthought3390]

It seems a lot of men checked out from the dating market completely. I guess that is the reason we don't see violence and crime going up at the moment. That might not be the case in the future however, with the generations that are currently still too young to date. We know there is a good chance these generations are going to be more entitled and spoiled, so they might become violent upon entering the dating market and being hit by the reality of it all.

[@calibanxpable]

Not all of us, wanted to be in the kitchen. The revolution gave us the freedom to choose. The failure was that we did not need men. Society needs men, children need their fathers and the world needs men.

[@2345-i8b]

You need society. Thus, you need men too, because men are the predominate builders and protectors of society.

[@skylinefever]

Indeed. I hate that the revolution decided to change for "Free to choose" to "Free to choose what is on this list" which has all the old options removed.

[@nyashamahleko7007]

Absolutely Not all Woman want to lock into the kitchen

[@bikotheanimator6169]

Men create. Women live inside the creation. God is referred to as a He. Lucifer was once the most beautiful of all the angels before he fell. This is feminine. He likes chaos. Female energy is chaos. Women like chaotic men who treat them like trash. Subsequently, the women themselves become trash as a result.

[@user-og6hl6lv7p]

​@@nyashamahleko7007 I think the vast majority of woman want to be in the kitchen but it has to be on their own accord. I have notice that many woman become highly incensed when men accurately determine how women feel about certain things. I think they are petrified that if a man understands a woman's decision making process then she is prone to losing control of herself. The reality is that most men want women to stop lying, not only to men, but to themselves. Men do have to ability to know what's best for women, and vice versa. I am deeply pained when I see a woman making bad decisions that I know will bring her nothing but misery.

[@scottreichek2986]

Honestly I had no idea things had gotten this far off the rails for young women, that some young women are unable to grasp that they are entitled to say no to hook-up culture...to choking? That's lunacy. To say that the Sexual Revolution has failed them, that it has failed us all, is to say Godzilla is a larger-than-average lizard. This is heartbreaking, and entirely unacceptable as a state of affairs.

[@justlistenfornow]

Sexual revolution has empowered women in many ways, which include" _1/3 generation Z has STD _1/3 generation Z is predicted to die childless and single

[@adrianharry5336]

Women in general have ALWAYS needed to be led by “good men”. Society was built how it was for a reason. “Tradition are social experiments THAT WORKED” We showed up and knocked all the fences down like they weren’t there for a reason.

[@ceeeceeeeeeeeeeeeee]

I love that you can hear Louise's baby in the background, very relatable for any moms who work and such a sweet sound

[@alphacause]

Thank you for featuring Louise Perry and Mary Harrington on your program. Like any large movement, feminism is not monolithic. There are a diversity of perspectives. Perry's and Harrington's ideas need to be more widely known, as they provide a much needed counterpoint to the popular view, among feminist circles, that the only means for women to achieve parity with men is for women to behave like men. Equality does not mean sameness. We don't need to turn women into men - and have women adopt the worst sexual habits of men - in order for them to achieve their full potential. To best meet the needs of women, we must celebrate the inherent differences they have, and not pretend that those innate differences don't exist, or that they are a social construct that women can simply unlearn.

[@johnmilius3031]

Diversity of perspective is not appreciated in this comment section. My comment proving the statement false with supporting evidence has been deleted 2 times now within a span of 50 minutes. It seems clear that feminists would rather claim victimhood over victory which entails taking responsibility for their own choices and actions. Why would you, when you can just blame the men you hate, fear and reject?

[@09cutie0pie]

But what if innate differences are the very thing that cause women to be subjugated and unhappy? Celebrating wont help, I think. It seems we are screwed either way

[@JeffCaplan313]

What is a woman?

[@Angrybogan]

The biggest problem is that while feminism isn't monolithic, the laws that get created to accomodate it - such as Duluth, unborn child deletion, no-fault divorce alimony and child custody ARE total monolithic absolutes. Men have responded by taking a long look at relationships with women and deciding the proverbial "juice is not worth the squeeze". They aren't dating, marrying or even interracting with women. And they are smart.

[@frentz7]

men are dating as much as they can, obviously .. dunno what planet you're living on@@Angrybogan

[@GoingsoloinFrance]

A one sided conversation... ''Men are bad'' Same old same old..... FYI, 50% of the audience of pornography are women. More than 50% of the actors in pornography are women, the highest paid actors are women..... As for the comment '' How men treat women ''.... That is one of the main reasons I will no longer look a woman in the eye for more than a second... Men have walked away from women in their millions. The ladies will understand.... One day.

[@3sdhdjdh]

Women don’t make up 50% of the porn audience . Did you really say that with a straight face? I’m a guy and we watch probably 30x the porn women watch

[@LaurensPP]

Empathy, or the lack thereof, that's what it all boils down to. Parents and society don't focus enough on teaching or maintaining empathy. For a child, naturally everything has soul, animate or inanimate. We teach them quite early to not see a soul in all things and empathy slowly shrinks.

[@danielhamilton5094]

Nope, the world is choking on too much empathy.

[@darksaint0124]

That is not how empathy works. Children generally have to learn empathy.

[@dieseldan5189]

Interesting discussion about porn and the effects on society. I would expand the discussion that Porn to men is the same as Instagram is to women. As men can be addicted to porn, women are addicted to attention as provided on a platform like Instagram and only fans. What are the negative effects of attention addiction for women? For starters, supercharged hypergamy which makes the most ordinary women believe that they deserve men that are well above their social status. That average men, who basically ensure that society functions via the maintenance of the infrastructure, are well beneath the most average and ordinary women. As there are anti addiction efforts for men and porn, should there not be anti addiction efforts for women and social media?

[@Ravenelvenlady]

Excellent suggestions. I, as a woman, concur!

[@ConanDuke]

The problem with female academics and intellectuals discussing pornography in public forums is that they typically don't actually know what they're even talking about, because they've apparently never actually seen any of it, it or had any contact with it outside of a spreadsheet or an academic journal. Louise Perry's arguments would hold far more weight if she'd spent a year in the industry collecting first-hand anecdotal data. She'd certainly sell more books.

[@johnstewart7025]

Isn't it disingenuous to say that young women are reluctant to object to what they don't like in the bedroom? Isn't the reality that young women are reluctant to say no to PARTICULAR males? In other words, they fear giving up whatever privileges they perceive by being with this male.

[@DogOneIsOpen]

I think you are on to something. If he’s higher status, her hypergamy kicks in, and she’ll actually be submissive to him to try and get him to commit, at least for a time. This is why some men recommend going with a 6-7 on the scale vs a 9-10. They claim there’s often “better sex” in that range.

[@jefferytokarsky1930]

Actually, it’s more a self serving lie.

[@Wanderer25]

The 80-90% average men, yes. The 10% that all women are attracted to it's fantastic.

[@lygiabird6988]

No, I think you are listening to too much red pill content.

[@English_Thespian]

I had an ex about 2-3 years ago (when we started dating I was 20 she was 23). She was publicly a very outspoken feminist woman but was very different in the bedroom. She actually asked me to choke her. I - being a man raised during Me-Too - was very nervous and required quite a bit of persuading to risk that. She also convinced me to be much more masculine and dominant than I had been told women liked. And this is a very outspoken feminist (though the terf-ish not bluehaired variety). So I think this discussion was lacking. They assume by default that kinky behaviour is something men push onto women, which isn't true.

[@zaraandlight]

thank you for hosting these ladies. I quite enjoyed listening to this, very sobering and very logical.

[@Intelligence-Squared]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@DogOneIsOpen]

What about the effects of modern romance novels on women? Thinking more along the lines of 50 Shades of Grey. Some of these novels feature very aggressive males. Men pick up on these cues as well.

[@skylinefever]

Rollo Tomassi says it does as much to women as p*hub does to men.

[@darksaint0124]

Modern romance novels? They have been hardcore smut for far longer than 50 shades has been around.

[@RedArtistx]

I'd like to hear a more robust argument for banning porn than 'We survived thousands of years without it, we'll be fine'. We survived without a lot of things - various forms of entertainment, ability to communicate quickly over very long distances, but it doesn't mean that we want or should go back there. I think there's a good argument to be made that there a difference between those things and access to porn, and that's something that needs to be inckuded elaborated on rather than leaving it as the more simplistic argument of 'We were fine before without it'.

[@CanadianMonarchist]

I would argue porn has always existed in some capacity.

[@zeppelin0110]

Agreed, that was an incredibly weak argument

[@anarchic_ramblings]

I don't think she was arguing that it should be banned.

[@Irene-im8xi]

"Women everywhere are always expected to continually imagine what one situation or another would look like from a male point of view. Men are almost never expected to do the same for women. So deeply internalized is this pattern of behavior that many men react to any suggestion that they might do otherwise as if it were itself an act of violence." David Graeber, The Utopia of Rules: On Technology, Stupidity, and the Secret Joys of Bureaucracy

[@BlackPrimeMinister]

Name a single example. Where?

[@dieseldan5189]

David Graeber was an intellectul idiot!

[@nickbarber2080]

None of those points chimed with me in any way as being an accurate analysis. But the only long-form talk by David Graeber I heard led me to conclude that he was a bit simple.

[@Irene-im8xi]

@@nickbarber2080 That's fine - not everyone has empathy.

[@nickbarber2080]

@@Irene-im8xi ...or he's just talking nonsense...?

[@searose6192]

What about coercion? Consent can't be coerced, so if you are coerced, your "consent" is not consent.

[@SalihSabir]

Please stay at home. In an age when we have police, helplines left, right and centre. Coerced? By who? How?

[@DonBelial]

Very interesting talk with some very interesting points to think about, esp technological progress vs societal progress from th female perspective. Also heard a lot of JB Peterson and Camille Paglia

[@timjude]

Women have always led culture. The sexual revolution stopped that.

[@feliziagraye2812]

Thank you for this very succinct wake-up call. Progress is a religion and very few people have the guts to see the ugly sides.

[@nuuky]

When we speak for a movement we don't speak for each individual - When we speak as individuals we have differing views.

[@MrJasonworkman]

It certainly has failed men

[@alexryan43244]

No 😂😂. It frees man if you are a nice charming man like me you can engage with women with out fear

[@johnmilius3031]

@@alexryan43244 Without laying eyes on you, I can tell it's your LOOKS.

[@1jomojo]

Dude i sleeped with 13 women these year and I can definitely tell u it’s not worth it. Rather hadn’t lost my gf/future wife to this hookculture Can’t trust anyone anymore

[@starchaser6024]

It hasn’t failed men if you’re rich and famous. If you’re a rich famous man this might be the best time to be alive

[@lindawolfe2885]

We’re all doing our best. Seems the world is difficult for us all, male and female. Do my best to be joyful every day, yet still can’t wait to graduate from this earth school.

[@LauraKamienski]

This is really interesting. I taught self-defense for women and girls during the late 90s through the naughties. One of the things that I tried to impart was that the vast majority of violence that women experience is that the hands of men that they know and who are already in close, yes self-defense is taught primarily as stranger danger. So it's interesting to me. Got this generation of young women are hyper-aware of stranger danger and yet feel compelled to consent two violent Acts ask with men who may or may not be someone she knows well. So even though this generation has been well-versed in the idea that no means no, there seems to be an inability to say no in any realistic way. And I think Mary Harrington's arguments get underneath this as well I'll be interested to read Louise Perry's book soon

[@codexelectra]

"feel compelled", I'd say "choose"

[@greebj]

​@@codexelectra the difference is massive when the definitions of R/SA crimes have incredible wiggle room such as "possibility that consent is not freely given or has been withdrawn"

[@ashleymann7186]

I don't think that really too much of a change, though. I mean, once society evolved beyond constant tribal raids, violrnce to woman has been primarily from those she knows pretty across the board.

[@bensanderson7144]

most interpersonal violence is low level - kicking, scratching, biting - and it is mostly women against men within dysfunctional relationships

[@frentz7]

"wiggle room" .. so what, if somebody changes their mind at some point and makes it clear to you they don't want to have sex .... you keep trying?@@greebj

[@Sophist98]

for me as man it‘s a very interesting discussion since i myself was participating a lot in hookup culture before i questioned my values and came to pretty much the same conclusion. Nevertheless there is some bias from the narrator for instance by saying „how men are treating women“ (minute 8.22) which takes away responsibility from women (both are participating in this hook-up culture). women aren‘t just victims they can „profit“ from this hook up culture just as much as men maybe just in other ways. Edit: aswell as the statement that men have no discussion about porn: there is a huge popularity among men of rejecting porn and everything that comes with it (because of fear of addiction and destructing the self) So it seems to me the narrator isn‘t that well informed

[@RedArtistx]

I see where you're coming from, but undoubtedly, women are more physically vulnerable in such interactions. A lot of women also do this because they feel like unless they participate, the man will simply move onto another woman that is willing to have sex casually. It's sad, but one woman I knew was willing to have sex on the first date because she wanted to start a relationship with this guy she fancied. She thought she could get him interested in her by doing that, but of course, he made it clear to her that he was still not interested in her as a girlfriend.

[@BlackPrimeMinister]

@@RedArtistx You have no evidence for this whatsoever. And even if it's true, so what? No violence is involved, save in the mind of feminists. If your mate was willing to give it up on a first date, she is simply a loose woman whose mother did not teach her the value of chastity.

[@RedArtistx]

@@BlackPrimeMinister @Ikem Is Cancelled I think you're projecting onto me opinions and things I actually didn't say. I never said violence was involved in the real life situation I specified. Learn to read. What kind of evidence would you have like anyway? 🤣 For me to have gone along with them on the evening?? It's like you think this is an outlandish, highly unusual claim, when it isn't. 'Loose woman'. So much judgement there in that wording. You judge, you talk about chastity, but you do not exhibit the gentlemanly behaviour you probably expect from others. Just speak about women in a derogatory way. The woman isn't allowed to have sex kn the first date, but if a man does it? He's congratulated or no one minds.

[@BlackPrimeMinister]

​@@RedArtistx Are you against judgment because you lack standards when it comes to women?

[@skylinefever]

@@RedArtistx I often say that women shaming other women's sexuality is like a labor union. If too many women have sex too quickly, they are like scab laborers that cost other women their negotiating power.

[@Langnasenaffe]

The sexual revolution benefits top 10% of men (those who are rich and or tall and in good shape), those who all women want. These 10% sleep with nealy all women in their most beautiful years and do not commit to one of them. Why should a man commit, if the next 5 women are even lining up themselges to please him? If she gets to love him and begins to stick he will dump her and move on. And she is heartbroken and disappointed. Over and over again. And over time she loses her ability to pair bond. And the women do this bc everyone of them "feels", she could lock this top tier man down, he will love her and stay. No, he won´t bc she is not special for him, offers nothing better than all the other women chasing him. She is a number for him, nothing else. And so the wheel goes round and round, her body count raises till the woman hits 30, the clock of nature is ticking, she realises that if she wants kids and a husband she must "lower" her standarts. And now the 90% of men she did not even see in her 20´s come in sight. But she is damaged, she "feels" that she´s entiteled to a millionaire man bc she has slept with those, she´s entiteled to a 6"+ man, bc she slept with those, she is entiteled to a bodybuilder bc she slept with those. Propably all in one man. And than she marries a guy who is at least at one of these assets more than average. And misses the other goodies. And gets bored soon after the tingles fade if they even were there and life comes down to daily routine. But she can not enjoy simple contentment and peace, she is addicted to the butterflies of a new love. And so she divorces him, destroing the family and damaging the children. And wants to go back on the dating market with all the tingles and butterflies. But now she´s older and has children. And those top tier guys she had slept with in her youth still sleep with young girls, not with her. And do not commit, not to her younger sisters nor to her. And now even average guys won´t commit to her anymore - raising another man´s children is a bad deal even for low tier men. She will buy cats and die alone - like her ex-husband and a lot of men (those rather will buy dogs - like myself). That´s it. It damages all humans, especially the children. Women today are more free than in all history. And are more miserable. Men are more happy than women. And that´s bc men are hardwired to be alone. It´s not a big deal for men to live on their own, but for women it is.

[@greebj]

I agree, right up to the end. Men might be able to survive on their own and be less inclined to enter/remain in an unsatisfactory relationship, but there is no immunity from it. The rising Incel culture is a response to society going too far into damaging group ideology (leading to the loss of positive male role models outside of superficial successes - sex, status, money), but the "IN" part of the name is the opposite of making a choice and being happy about it

[@greebj]

I agree, right up to the end. Men might be able to survive on their own and be less inclined to enter/remain in an unsatisfactory relationship, but there is no immunity from it. The rising Incel culture is a response to society going too far into damaging group ideology (leading to the loss of positive male role models outside of superficial successes - sex, status, money), but the "IN" part of the name is the opposite of making a choice and being happy about it

[@TheKarlslok]

These top 10% of men are in the same position as.... all women! And they behave in the same way as women! Getting just sex is easy for all women, as for these top 10% of men. Therefore women and top 10% men dont value "getting just sex" very much. It is like buying some candy. Women want more from men then just sex to want to be in a relationship, as does these top 10% of men. And since sex is the only thing liberated modern women offer top 10% men, these women are easily replaceble, just as most men are easily replaceble by women who can easily meet new men, by just making eye contact and smile. So any criticism against this behavior of top 10% men would need to be followed by the same amount of criticism against the same behaviour from women, but there never is any criticism towards women is there. Women initiate almost all of the divorces (while convincing the man that it is a decision they make together, even if the man lose much more money they her by a divorce and also loses contact with his children), because they dont commit and are free to replace men at any time for any reason. So why should unmarried single top 10% men even be criticised when they compared to married women have no obligations of loyalty....

[@prinka2096]

This comment needs to be pasted on the wall of all boys' lavatories. This is golden, I wish I could bookmark it.

[@MegaAssface]

So much of this comment is just wrong. You need less tate in your life.

[@carbon1479]

13:45 - I find the 'chokings' thing really odd. It's like - standards are super, super high on men until it's a guy who chokes - then there's some unexplainable gravitation on first sight.

[@grateful1947]

Thank you for this insightful conversation. Narcissistic abuse by both men and women seems to be the drive behind much of this unfortunate behavior. So ironic how the 60's spawned a whole generation of people who gave up sense and identify to participate in unproductive, unhealthy, and short term "relationships" that benefited the aggressors. It all seems so clear now ... the 60's and 70's not so much. The importance of healthy families is so obvious as a bulwark against this devastation. Unfortunately, these cultural trends don't result in healthy families, but in broken and lonely individuals. Thanks, again.

[@rathelmmc3194]

I guess we're relearning the hard way why the Christians said that sex is for having children only. Maybe that's too strict, but you can at least understand why they took that approach.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

They Christian men didn't want women to have any sexual freedom and enjoy sex. It's another religious control tactic.

[@gumdeo]

If "Christians" (which ones?) say that sex is only for reproduction, then why do they marry old couples in church?

[@cavaleirosemlicenca3894]

I don't think Christians often think about that. They tend to think of sex as something intimate for the couple and also for having children.

[@ribeirojorge5064]

Actually...We are in a Regression in favor of the Ego...

[@AaronHahnStudios]

TRUTH - If a Man gets a Sex change, He should be made to sign a contract that they cannot compete in sports. Nothing more to say but respect to women for the wonderful right to be a woman.

[@MegaAssface]

Wtf does this comment have to do with the video lol

[@churblefurbles]

@AaronHahnStudios Women intrude on male spaces by removing merit. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[@UnitedPacci]

It has failed society

[@JustinK617]

Thank you for boldly asking the hard questions no matter the political atmosphere! It is so important. Wish npr still had intelligence squared debates, unfortunately NPR has lost their way

[@oeckstei]

Short answer is yes.

[@vira1340]

Legalize and destigmatize sex work and watch sexual violence fall. However, this will not be acceptable to Louise Perry and bourgeois women as men wont spend their resources on them.

[@gumdeo]

And that is the central issue here.

[@Eng4555]

It was very conducive and that is to say substantially good so we are tackle women atitude and behavior!! First thing lead them church and create dating and marriage counseling

[@skylinefever]

Good luck with that. Often churches end up catering to women and then end up alienating men by adopting the man bad woman good script.

[@0rnery0verwatch]

As a man, I have to say... one thing I envy you ladies for.. is your ability to maintain your hairline as you age LOL. I'm so sick of watching my hairline slowly recede and pretend like I'm somehow okay with it haha

[@RedArtistx]

Hate the 'vanilla' label. This needs to be laughed at followed by - 'What...just normal, non-fetishy sex then?'

[@jonahtwhale1779]

Women not liking the consequences of their freely chosen decisions and complaining about those consequences! Colour me surprised!

[@anarchic_ramblings]

Plenty of men are discussing porn. What about Joe Rogan?

[@teresateresa877]

I am not sure if "feminist" in these days has positive meaning, I do not think so...sexual revolution for sure has not.

[@JimmyMFP]

To Louise’s point about academics making grand sweeping statements around 10:40, I agree, it’s been my experience that academics have a proclivity for making such bold statements; but, the question which has always occurred to me is: even if you’re right, what if how it is is actually a good thing? The hubris of ‘experts’ cannot be understated.

[@DennisMurphey]

Frankly I am thinking it has been slowed down by Male Politicians and Male Business leaders.

[@junior3082]

Would they be willing to ban the reproductive pill as well as porn?

[@vthompson947]

Have you read their books? You'll find that question discussed.

[@gumdeo]

"Cyborg feminism".

[@skylinefever]

If they are, I hope they are ready for the downsides of communist Romania.

[@frentz7]

wait, where's the "debate" part? this (description of video) just sounds like two people on a topic who agree

[@derekbainbridge55]

There is no debate here

[@frentz7]

@@derekbainbridge55 yea this is something else

[@victorbrown3155]

Where can the rest of this be found?

[@Intelligence-Squared]

Hi Victor, the full version is on our streaming service Intelligence Squared Plus: www.intelligencesquaredplus.com/

[@derekbainbridge55]

Watch out Victor your interest costs money

[@onefootoutthedoor9937]

Feminism certainly has

[@Eng4555]

I meant porn in nowadays is safe , that’s why it is more alluring!! So lust between couple must prolong years because if they watch porn together no daily but it is in certain point educational they adore each other more!!

[@NoobsDeSroobs]

We did not live without porn, as depictions of sexy women and men have been all over the world, we just did not have digital media. We had similar arguments througjout history in regards to brothels and erotic books. Further, porn is not a right, and we can live without it, just like so many other things. Let us ban laptops, gaming gear, cars, sky scrapers, modern medicine, modern science. After all, we did manage without for thousands of years.

[@charlesstanford1310]

I love Mary and Louise. They should come do a joint session forum at BYU here in Utah: they're basically advocating for the LDS lifestyle.

[@kenjikyochi2348]

To the question: Yes it has fail women's,women's are supposed to set the rules and boundaries that are need to access sexual relations with them,they have fail to do so,so men's fail to developed the skill need it to be a better partner....simple question,simple answer.

[@greebj]

for simple minds... How about you set the definition for a better PERSON to be someone who says what they will do, and do what they will say, then BOTH people in a relationship will achieve this "being better"? And higher ideals than a relationship being about "accessing sexual relations" Using the language and concepts of stereotypes is not how a softening of entrenched attitudes based on those stereotypes will be achieved

[@kenjikyochi2348]

@@greebj Thank you my friend for setting me straight,from now own i will also live by the delusional idea and aspiration that you have set,thank you for i can finally live outside of what have being reality for the animal kingdom for the last 3billion years.

[@joemahma3017]

@@kenjikyochi2348 we have free will. Men have become monks for thousands of years. I’m vegetarian, drink only water, don’t have sex, don’t masturbate. I’ve when doing it for years and you learn that the drive for sex is programmed into you. Notninherent.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Prior to feminism men still we're NOT good partners. They controlled their wives, cheated and abused them.

[@NoobsDeSroobs]

You are a rare breed of bad writer. Proper punctuation, but no spaces.

[@thehowlingmisogynist9871]

12:08 onwards: No, Louise, pornography has existed since the days of the Ancient Egyptians. Every advance in visual communications technology has facilitated the spread of porn. Porn has been a driver of visual communications technology - drawings, paintings, books, photographs. television, video and online. The notion of female victimhood in pornography harks back to the 1970's and has been thoroughly debunked by millions of female content creators on Only Fans. Who is exploiting who ? Follow the money!!!

[@davieb8216]

Disagree with Louise about choking becoming a thing because of porn. Would like to see her evidence.

[@gumdeo]

Indeed, the Victorians were already into such things.

[@darthvader3910]

What do women think about sexual fluidity & the idea that womenare inherintly sexually fluid??. because if this is true, then there is no point in straight relationships or marriages anymore

[@deal2live]

Disagree about porn driving niche sexual preference! Things like anal and other not so common sexual practices like golden showers I learnt from SOAS progressive. We are seeing also in lgbtq education!!!!

[@genovasquez8361]

the sexual revolution only is a problem for those who aint young and hot. Sexual revolution is great, it gives us men more options for sex with out having to hear where do you see this going. Not all men want marriage or kids.

[@gumdeo]

The revolution definitely worked for the upper 10% of men, which is why they supported it.

[@howardroberts5015]

When women decide that men have no place in a conversation...regarding relationships. Conversation stops! lonely ladies god bless!

[@MathieuDoiron]

It would be interesting for them to do a piece on a subject and include men in the research. Comments such as "men are more violent" would likely dissapears and be replaced by "there is more reports of violence coming from men". Reality is that men don't report violence most of the time unless it is quite serious (like a stabbing) and even there. The part on porn was interesting, but again i would probably get the men idea and effect as well. Society is affected by porn no matter the gender as it project image of sexuality that may or may not be attypical, weather it is the bodies you look at or the actions they are performing. One thing ia sure, sexual revolution did not do as much good as people are led to think.

[@mattmattmatt131313]

Women are just as violent as men (if not more). Men are just far better at it, so we pay really close attention to it. The most violent group are children, they are just so weak nobody seems to care much.

[@newgodxOmega]

Who cares when society fails its every person for themselves

[@Eng4555]

Here is a thought porn consequence and that is a self control which is a spirit we contain!! Yes it is a force However exercise your self control now coming to children that must be driven their parents correctly!!

[@Eng4555]

Mrs. Louise , in nowadays women are very much insecure leading men to bad relationship she irritates she damages great atmosphere for no reason!! Mrs Perry today women are the ones on anger management

[@Eng4555]

I think porn exercised is in certain mode into passion frame rather than hurt a woman but feel themselves concisely so it is safe to watch porn women want pleasure not in agressive way but in passion way great lust and great power shaft

[@dsmyify]

Has women overthinking about themselves, their cat, and their sex life failed women that overthink about themselves, their cat, and their sex life?

[@LaurensPP]

I don't get this, what is your point exactly?

[@dsmyify]

@@LaurensPP ~ there are a certain group of people, can be women or men, that overthink and perhaps overanalyze the less important details of life. I believe these three women are representative of that group.

[@LaurensPP]

@@dsmyify I think you didn't really listen to their discussion.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Nah...I don't have a cat but I do have a sex life

[@tonydecentblackman1327]

I'm a man. I listened to the first 15 minutes. I think you talk complete rubbish. The idea that women can't stick up for themselves because they need a boyfriend is total nonsense. Unless, you are talking about women who want the top 10 percent guys, which most men are not. I understood what was said about marriage, except why would women opt for marriage after finding out what men were like through listening to you in the first 15 minutes?

[@Knight766]

Do you think Sarah Everard's parents would agree with your statement?

[@tonydecentblackman1327]

@@Knight766 I don't know. Are you saying it is common for women students to be dominated by their boyfriends? And for male student to see violent porn and to act out the violence they see on their girlfriends?

[@danielcallum8015]

Im deleting Jamaican citizenship when I get money

[@patriciawilliams2404]

God, this whole discussion was negative. Absolutely no joy anywhere. And there is nothing feminist about the hookup culture. There is nothing feminist or revolutionary about feeling pressured into having sex. And, choking? That is threatening and dangerous, how can that _possibly_ be attributed to either the sexual revolution, or feminism? I feel that the whole premise of this "Intelligence Squared" discussion is off-base.

[@JeffCaplan313]

Of course there's no joy here, feminism is *quite literqlly* destroying society/culture. Why celebrate women who want to go it alone? Who is going to be there to celebrate her?

[@johnisaacfelipe6357]

then you are blind to what feminism is in the last 50 years.

[@derekbainbridge55]

I'm inclined to agree with you Patricia.

[@anarchic_ramblings]

Men learn 'choking' from women, not from porn!

[@vira1340]

If marriage is a compromise then sex is something you provide your partner even if you don't really feel like it. Marital rape laws should be abolished. No man should get married as long as this law remains.

[@db7084]

If your wife doesn't want to have sex with you, that is on YOU. Btw, thanks for outing yourself as someone with rapist tendencies. I hope you have gone on a list somewhere, in case there are any unsolved rapes in your neighbourhood. Although with your backward attitude, I doubt there is a list where you are from.

[@danielcallum8015]

I have got a condition

[@bryanbaker6040]

Uhhh...what kind of head space do you have to be in to think the label "reactionary" is something you want to self-apply?

[@bazinga-tt9pj]

Just like a social democrat would be considered reactionary in most instances by a communist, it's simply to get to the point before your adversary even if it means already introducing phraseology that will be used against you.

[@deal2live]

SOAS😂😂😂😂

[@Eng4555]

Feelings and adorable touchings

[@mlund3]

Has women failed themselves? Lost the plot I think

[@willyhwang1059]

i swear by canivorism

[@moussaouiahmed]

........................................AM

[@vira1340]

Louise Perry just cooked up a meaningless term called illegal consent to keep up the narrative of women are victims.

[@danielcallum8015]

I thought if Africa’s poor because of the climate then how can Jamaica be. Different continent so I researched.

[@a.jlondon9039]

The host is pompous and boring.

[@fringefringe7282]

Yawn...

[@klo786]

Islam is right about women

[@SalihSabir]

Solution: Look into Islam ☪️

[@London_miss234]

Or look into Christianity.

[@philawsonfur]

Or the bigger brain move: Look into the wisdom and unifying/ character building principles that all religious sects share and throw away the irrational aka antisocial, tribalistic, tyrannical etc. aspects. 🧠

[@Romamb]

😂 aye very good mate. Away & shite in a glass

[@indianhistorybuff]

Lool

[@SalihSabir]

@@London_miss234 christianity unfortunately is the reason we are here

[@joangratzer2101]

NO SEX

[@gordonbecker1456]

I've been watching porn for a long time and never even thought about looking up crazy porn let alone watching it