A Real Definition of Narcissistic Abuse

[@healnpd]

I will remove comments that are abusive to any individual (including myself) or population. This includes comments that are abusive toward pwNPD.

[@crisestrada8268]

lkoa

[@SandriaBrown-s3n]

​@@crisestrada8268 -

[@citygalmelanieproductions1431]

Yep

[@MfConnor]

As you should! Off topic, you would be great at meditation videos. You have a very serene voice 😀 😊

[@LR-yu3mx]

If you did not experience the abuse and toxic family, one does not have an Idea what helll the victims go through

[@SeeDemDeh]

Exactly… many can’t relate to the hell we experienced.

[@RippleDrop.]

It's so unbelievable I've rarely talked about it. It's so absurd even I in the center of it have a hard time accepting the hell happened because it's just so beyond...

[@marylouleeman591]

Totally.

[@user-2.00mimi]

both my parents and then my abuser found me at 11 yrs old hes 3 half yrs older im now 43 ready to be take myself away 4ever

[@giuliabasile8017]

the individual with npd most likely went through this as well in their childhood

[@MfConnor]

The saddest thing is when you witness a victim of NPD transform into the narcissistic abuser themselves. I.e. dad abuses mom, then mom abuses kids...

[@quantumfineartsandfossils2152]

+1

[@Long_May_They_Raine]

This!! My mother can’t seem to notice that she directly re-created the abuse she endured. It’s maddening!

[@plethoradulcet]

This happened but my mom doesn't abuse me so I don't have NPD I just have BPD

[@katieandnick4113]

As long as we see ourselves as separate from other people, we will need their approval. For 95% of human existence, disapproval from your fellow humans would have resulted in your death, because no human could live even remotely independently until the advent of agriculture and domestication. It is hardwired into us as humans to need approval, and I think that to deny this reality is to deny our humanity, which is supposedly a narcissistic thing to do. Honestly, I’m not convinced at all that humans have an inherent sense of self that is separate from those around us. I think this feature would have been detrimental to human survival for the hundreds of thousands of years that we existed prior to agriculture. If I see you as separate from me, you will either be a potential object of use to me or a threat to me. If I cannot reliably know what you are thinking, how am I to be sure you are not thinking about how much I suck, and that you wish you could get rid of me? Of course, psychiatry is a very patriarchal and capitalist institution, so it makes sense that, according to psychiatry, healthy human traits are signs of pathology, and unhealthy traits are signs of normalcy. It’s no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society after all. I believe the self is an illusion, and that the stronger your illusion of self is, the more narcissistic you will be, and the more full of fear and anger you will be. What I think leads to primary(inflicted by the mother) narcissism is the fear of her own humanity that a mother has, which leads to repression and self contempt. She projects this onto her children. They say that only narcissists see their children as extensions of themselves, but I believe that all humans see their children(and everyone else, really) as extensions of themselves. The difference between highly narcissistic people and so called “normal” people is that the former fears and hates themselves(and by extension, everyone else), while a more healthy person doesn’t fear and hate themselves nearly as much. I do think we all fear and hate ourselves to some extent, as a result of living completely out of alignment with our nature for over 10,000 years. Civilization is a like a prison or a zoo for humans. I do believe that highly narcissistic people can become less narcissistic IF they receive unconditional acceptance from a woman. Unfortunately, they are incredibly difficult to accept because of the way they behave, so it’s terribly unlikely they will heal. My husband used to be far more narcissistic than he is now, and I think that when I stopped viewing him as a threat to my ego and my worldview and perception of myself, he finally felt safe enough to become introspective. If the most important person in your life views you as a threat to their ego(which is experienced by the brain and body as an actual physiological threat), you can never exit the defensive, narcissistic state.

[@quantumfineartsandfossils2152]

@@katieandnick4113 you have a genius IQ thank you for posting your comments and your experience under this video ..

[@Nanobot888]

This has been the most helpful video I have seen on NPD. It finally helped me identify why the feeling of ugliness or “not being good enough”- because there is no level of beauty or achievement that WOULD ever be good enough to fulfil the endless self-esteem void. I cannot thank you enough for this.

[@deicheeves7301]

There's a fascinating study on the brains of people with npd. It shows less grey matter in the left anterior insula (one brain region responsible for empathy). Adding this to highlight npd is not a choice. It is even physiological in some cases. Additionally childhood neglect and/or abuse that forces a child into "fight or flight" for extended periods of time can do brain damage including shrinking the hippocampus (learning/memory) and enlarging the amygdala (base emotions like fear/rage)

[@healnpd]

Yes, and the neurology of mental illness is somewhat of a chicken and egg situation. Brain circuits that fire together wire together. The experiences that produce NPD have a neurological correlate. We can’t really say if a certain kind of brain produces NPD, or if NPD produces a certain kind of brain. But your point about choice is well-taken. Whatever the cause of our neurology, we can’t think outside of the range of thoughts permitted by our individual neurological configuration. This is why therapy is helpful: in a way it’s like having someone with a different brain helping to think previously “unthinkable” thoughts.

[@foxiefair123]

I think that can happen in adulthood also due to abuse or trauma.

[@markgamache6377]

@@healnpdit also points to the intractable nature of NPD.

[@healnpd]

@@markgamache6377 I would caution you against becoming too committed to the idea that NPD is incurable or intractable. There simply isn't any evidence to suggest that is true. Brains change and grow with time and experience. When I say that we can't think outside of the range of thoughts permitted by our individual neurology, I do not mean that we can *never* think outside that range. There are many things that my present neurology prevents. Walking effortlessly on stilts is one of them. But I suspect that with sustained effort and enough time, my neurology would change. 🙂

[@markgamache6377]

@@healnpd I am willing to be convinced by evidence that NPD is treatable. But, current evidence is that typical treatments result in only superficial and/or temporary changes for all but a small minority of patients. It might be therapeutic methods around trauma or even a neurochemical intervention might improve the outcomes. I would never say it's impossible forever. Even if a solution was found there would still be the problem of the disorder preventing them from seeking therapy and if in therapy. hinders the therapeutic relationship. Compounding the problem, IMO NPD is an adaptive response that is an affective way to navigate in modern society. It 'works' despite being damaging to those around the disordered person.

[@ethosoul]

I wonder if demonizing and dehumanizing the person with NPD is a way to eliminate feelings of compassion and empathy for them which makes it difficult for some to maintain boundaries and no contact. I can speak for myself that because I’m aware of how and why the person in my life has adapted to be who they are because of their childhood, and I’ve experienced glimpse of vulnerability I empathize… my heart hurts for their inner child… as a Mother myself I feel a sense of hurt because I do know that there is a suffering in him and it makes my own defenses soft and when I think about trying to make it work I recall how I mostly experienced all of the negative aspects of this disorder and was always chasing a moving goal post, was confused, anxious and internally disregulated myself… that was hellish. So in trying to be a good role model for my children who are older adolescents I embrace compassion and empathy from a safe distance to me that is unconditional Love… I still Love him and regard him as a human being having the human experience like the rest of us…. But I am not a martyr nor do I wish to be a tribute in vain.

[@BotYep]

I really appreciate your comment and I want to share my own conclusion - For me, finding the difference between compassion and caretaking helped a LOT with maintaining boundaries. Caretaking is trying to help or fix a person's problems, but if you're not a psychotherapist you aren't qualified to do the heavy work of helping someone resolve their personality disorder. And it's impossible to have a healthy relationship with someone who, due to their personality disorder, is incapable of respecting your boundaries. Compassion is having love and understanding for someone while maintaining self-respect and healthy boundaries. I can have compassion for someone while refusing to have a relationship with them; This comes from the understanding that there is no way to have a healthy relationship with them, because they will always push boundaries due to their personality disorder. And I'm not qualified to caretake them or "fix" their disorder. As adults we are responsible for our own behavior and personal healing. No adult is responsible for the huge responsibility of caretaking another adult, unless they explicitly agree to that role as a therapist, social worker, legal guardian, etc. And even these caretaker roles have specific boundaries. Basically you can have compassion for someone and recognize their suffering while also refusing to have a relationship, because by the very nature of that person's disorder, the relationship is going to be unhealthy. I always found it sad to go no-contact with people in my life because I DO have deep compassion for them. It's awful to see people's self-perpetuated suffering, to watch them destroy relationships with their abusive behaviors, but again, I'm not qualified to help them. We can have compassion from a healthy, relationless distance.

[@thegridrunner9976]

It is generational. My wife's grandmother had 13 children. She was a narcissist. I remember being present for a family meeting with all 13 of them talking about the harm their mother caused them. My wife's mother is a narcissist. She raised my wife to believe emotions were weak and that women were weak. My wife grew up serving her mother hand and foot. She also grew up to serve her oldest brother (her mother deferred to him as well). The dynamic still exists between my wife and her mother. She spends just about every waking moment with her mom. I swear, if i hear: "If I were you, I would ____" one more time. I'll be in prison but my wife might be free. Grandmother-in-law Mother-in-law Brother-in-law Wife Youngest daughter Someone has to break the cycle. That was me...because each member mentioned above believes they have a proper perspective and the weak people around them keep screwing it up. I spent 26 years with my wife believing I did screw her life up, that I did fail her, that I couldn't do anything right. I cannot hate her for what she is, but I cannot save her. Believe me, I've been trying for years. I have nothing left. 😢

[@HomeFromFarAway]

My man you seem like you've carried way too much for way too long.

[@jivesenior8941]

All you can do is survive. They don't want to be saved. Jesus asked "do you want to be healed?" Their answer is f...off Jesus

[@citygalmelanieproductions1431]

Me too

[@layn6516]

You need to save yourself first.

[@lilac624]

@@thegridrunner9976 My grandmother I suspect was a narcissist..And she abandoned all her 9 children.As a result, some of them developed alchoholism and some developed personality disorders..

[@artsiomnaidzich9515]

Thank you for your video. I am first time visitor to your channel, but already appreciate your content. Sam Vaknin states that at the core of cluster B personality disorders is Narcissistic personality style. This may be the reason why there is generalization towards calling everything NPD. I just went through a divorce with my ex-wife. It was such a mixed bag of feelings for me. On one end, I felt bad for her, and her inability to experience the world the way other people see it. I know that it is not her fault, that's all she knows. On the other hand, being lied to, cheated on, having my name smeared to my friends, having my reality not validated, getting all the blame assigned to me, being treated with contempt, being resented by her, her pretending to be a victim, and then being discarded after seven years of marriage has really shaken me to my core. I truly loved my x wife and really wanted to save our marriage. No one is perfect, I get that. When I tried to work on myself, and was asking my wife to work on herself, her version of working on herself was telling me what to do and what to change. Everything was too little too late, and not enough. Those of you reading this comment, no matter what side you are on, what could be done for both cluster B and none cluster B people to bridge the reality gap while in relationship?

[@SeeDemDeh]

Sorry to hear of your experience. I am going through something similar at the moment. But with narcissists there is no gap to bridge, what you see is what you get, it is either you get it now or later. And it is either you stay and take it and become the narcissist foot stool or you save yourself. Full stop.

[@ptlovelight2971]

In my experience, the narcissist is not the one to change; they simply can't. Even if self aware. The one who will have to change is you. Now whether that change brings you closer together or farther apart depends on many things. How toxic the relationship is, how badly both of you want to make it work, etc. Ultimately it falls to the non disordered person, to decide what level of toxicity they can put up with, and what if any boundaries they are willing to compromise. In my case, the change in myself was to protect my peace and inner child. My boundaries were very basic (respect, consideration, autonomy) but my NPD sibling wouldn't honor or respect them. That was a dealbreaker for me, so we had to sever our relationship.

[@healnpd]

Ability to change is highly dependent on the individual. Those who are motivated to change and to engage in the treatment process can absolutely make significant strides. 👍

[@prant8998]

@@healnpd This is a real platitude for the victims of NPD. What this says is, they will change if they want to. The catch is, they don’t want to. Which means that the victim is not worth changing for. That, is the conundrum for victims to accept, that their NPD partner does not think they are worth the effort to change, (Basic respect, civility, empathy, and support.) Hence, the victim is trapped into a hopefulness that somehow their partner will actually do what normal people find pretty easy to do. It’s give up, on all the good stuff, and leave, and roll the dice on getting someone minus the abuse. Not to mention, people with a high self esteem, walk out the door at the first displaced, maybe even psychotic incident, the NPD tries to pull off. There is the lesson, from the get go for victims. You have to be tough, to let be known, (from the beginning), that you will get out for good, if there is any of the funny business the NPD like to use to get their sadistic supply. A firm, brick wall, boundary. If you don’t demand respect, don’t expect it to just be given to you. Otherwise, you will find yourself five years in, and it’s just getting worse.

[@healnpd]

@P Rant - Thanks for your comment. My focus on this channel has been primarily to explain the psychology behind NPD and to address the widespread distortions about this disorder floating around out there. But another goal should probably be to help regular people understand the basic principles in psychology that underlie most of the material I produce. For example: when I say that an individual who is motivated for treatment can improve, perhaps I should also add -explicitly - that it is not possible to motivate someone to want or accept help, and that whether or not that person is motivated is entirely about them and no one else.

[@themakuachronicles]

I release my narcissistic mother, with love and compassion, using the no contact discipline, and with the help and support I get from therapy, in hopes of creating a lifestyle that can improve my own feelings of low self-worth, and focus on my health, safety, and overall well-being.. rather than killing myself in order to please her in earning the right to exist in this world, after a lifetime of severe cyclical abuse, that almost led to my death. Thanks for posting.

[@octoberdawn1087]

I started having boundaries with my ex. It actually triggered him to start escalating the psychological abuse more, and then he started taking it out of my daughter even more. We finally had to escape. I hadn't eaten in weeks and I was losing so much weight. I felt like I had a chronic stomach ulcer. My face would break out in bright red splotches on my cheek & left ear. Even when he was begging me to come back, he was still completely denying specific events, Like refusing to let me go to the hospital. But then when he finally let me go- he walked away ahead of me pouting while I thought I was going to pass out.. He screwed me out of so much of my inheritance money. I got some of it back. But only because I threatened to scream it from the hills. Ten years Of hell. I've been gone two and a half months and i'm just now finally feeling brave enough to rest. I've started having nervous ticks that even wake me up as i'm falling asleep. The slightest noise makes my heart race. It's so not fair what they can get away with.

[@Wavicle]

I suffered covert narcissistic abuse from my soon-to-be-ex wife for nearly two decades. Your videos have been among the most helpful in my journey to find forgiveness for her within myself. I do not like many videos on this topics precisely because they tend to dehumanize the narcissist - the same way narcissists dehumanize others. It can be difficult to find compassion and empathy for someone who has treated you as an object whose purpose is to elevate, validate, and praise the facade of competence that they have constructed -- and then played victim and manipulated you with guilt when you failed to admire them during their periods of poor behavior. But it is necessary to find that so that we don't dehumanize them and become narcissistic ourselves.

[@amylee6585]

Same-ish here. Did not believe that I went through abuse at the hands of my npd family (my dad and his family) for the longest time, because of all the dehumanizing information out there. I know my families aren’t heartless monsters, I know they love and took care of me the best they can, it’s just that something in their psyche always seem to get in the way and they end up hurting me or other people. Abuse is a choice, yeah, it’s also impossible to ignore how hard they fought what they clearly thought of as “their inherent evilness” (in quotations because that is simply untrue). In her last years my gran deeply regretted how abuse passed down to me, and warned my dad several times to treat me better (while still being somewhat abusive to her children), but without understanding the root cause and suitable npd treatment, nothing really changed. I wish she finds peace in afterlife, and I wish my dad will have the chance and motivation to heal before he passes away.

[@neridafarrer4633]

I agree. My ex partner who I was with from 16 to 37 and had 7 children with (he was twice my age when we met and I was a homeless autistic girl) was very narcissistic toward me, but I know he was suffering from complex trauma from childhood and is a very frightened person. He needed to try to control me and undermine me because, as he told me "he had wanted a homeless teenager that he could mould" . He couldn't handle having a partner on equal terms. I think he is in a world of pain but has never learnt emotional intelligence. Our children are, one by one, turning away from him in alienation. He has no idea how to be honest or address his internal void that causes him to use other's for his selfish and fearful needs. It's sad. But I still care about him, he just can't help treating me as if my self-empowered adult woman self is a threat to him and he feels compelled to "divide and conquor". I left in very bad shape 14 years ago. I am now in a healthy relationship.

[@nishabhagat16]

I just love ur videos and ur book. It has helped me immensely in understanding my ex narc partner compassionately. Currently he is not in my life and I sometimes feel sad for him for self denial. I told him about his NPD issue very empathetically but his defenses are too strong to admit. Only thing which can heal him is praying for him. Hopefully one day he will wake up from his sleep and lead a fulfilling life. Thank u Marc for ur insightful videos

[@healnpd]

Thanks for watching. I am glad to know these videos are helpful to you.

[@heatherlynn3438]

I held onto a lifetime of narcissists with the idea that they had humanity inside there. I was bound, and determined to find it! They were just as bound and determined to prove me wrong! Which brings us back to the beginning of your explanation. It is a bizarre experience to live in a lifetime of fantasy worlds with a lifetime of Cluster B’s who never approved of my being born. Taking turns in the cycle. I felt invisible. I’m 55 and they still try to come back to finish me off. It would be a miracle to meet people out here who understand me. Alienation and Isolation after devaluation and discard like an engrained program until I finally understood that I held the keys to stop it! Which left me isolated and vulnerable to people who behave very much like predators.

[@healnpd]

It sounds like you've been through a lot.

[@heatherlynn3438]

@@healnpd I remember it like a Dream and a Nightmare. It was me behind all those closed doors. Sweet/Mean/Sweet/Mean/Sweet/Meaner…. Fear Obligation Guilt Shame/ Blame RAGE!! ect.. The whole nine.. I have to take a lot of breaks to protect and restore my energy. I’m exhausted and fatigued. I’m determined to hold my ground with my Boundaries and never go back or let any of them back in. It’s like I am allergic to them the way my body reacts to them . They make me really sick from the anxiety

[@angieholt736]

@@heatherlynn3438 I'm glad you aren't going back. Toxicity will affect your health. I just finished radiation for breast cancer and presently wearing a heart monitor. Take care!

[@heatherlynn3438]

@@angieholt736 I’m sorry. I pray for your full recovery! I had bladder cancer while married to one of the narcs. My health problems were the biggest distraction while I was in there. I had no idea that people could make you sick. Narcissists disabled me.

[@ninath13]

So forgive them for robbing us of our humanity because of their mental illness...

[@highdeserthoney]

Thank you for taking such an insightful approach to this disorder. I have been watching your videos and it is opening my eyes to so much. The long term effects of abuse and neglect in children are so damaging. So unfair. To all of us.

[@Thenamelessnarcissist]

This is why when people ask me for advice for their loved ones who suffer from NPD, I only ever reply if they can actually name traits that aren't just "gaslighting" "Discard" "hoover" etc etc. These aren't behaviors that are specific to NPD at all. I can understand wanting to understand the pathology behind why they were hurt, but since we view narcissism though the lense of abuse it's the only reason of being hurt people can think of. And I think there's too much of a focus on it for the process of healing Great vid on the topic. Best I've seen honestly. Which is unsurprising lmao

[@healnpd]

Thanks for your feedback. I fretted over whether to make a video on this topic because it is so charged. I 100% agree that narcissism is viewed through the lens of abuse to the exclusion of almost everything else about the disorder.

[@SeeDemDeh]

Many narcissists will find this to be the best video. Not many empaths will.

[@Galasuy]

@@SeeDemDeh why are you trying to invalidate actual useful information about NPD?

[@healnpd]

Unfortunately, you are correct, Jay. There are tens of thousands of videos focusing exclusively on a stigmatizing and vilifying definition of narcissism as synonymous with 'abuse.' This deluge of skewed information has created widespread misunderstanding among lay persons concerning NPD and pathological narcissism. It's not that these individuals don't mistreat others, because they do. It's more that the public (and many clinicians) simply don't understand narcissism to be anything OTHER than abuse and mistreatment of others. They can't conceptualize it as a mental illness. Any time I or anyone else attempts to address features of this disorder that aren't explicitly about abuse, a bunch of people show up in outrage.

[@cupoftea2957]

Funny how the views of these people only make room for the extremes, not for holding both sides - a skill which me with narcissism lacks but am learning now!

[@KleeKaiPuppies]

Toxic is toxic. The result is the same. Call it whatever you want. It’s painful and you deserve better. Get away from anything toxic. Trying to label it is yet another rabbit hole. Much love to all you good souls❤

[@healnpd]

I disagree that the conversation should stop at the word toxic. 'Toxic' means different things to different people. There are many kinds of toxic behavior, some that affect only the individual, some that affect those around them. I think we would all agree that mental healthcare should develop ways to conceptualize and treat 'toxic' behaviors.

[@dogtrainingmexico]

I think we need to understand where certain behaviors come from. Just running in the other direction will not give us any insight, and will not help us navigate with world we live in

[@KleeKaiPuppies]

@@dogtrainingmexico I understand what you’re saying. I had to educate myself on all of it too. I’m just saying don’t get too stuck in the rabbit hole of trying to figure out something that at the end of the day won’t make sense. Narcs are a rubics cube that won’t make sense to a healthy loving soul. Best wishes to anyone dealing w mean spirits.

[@_xiper]

@@KleeKaiPuppies NPD is not just a diagnosis for a mental health condition relating to behavior but also alludes to a framework for understanding these behavioral patterns, even if it isn't complete or entirely accurate. Narcissism makes plenty of sense of you have enough knowledge, which we all can access today. Sure, many authors do not see exactly eye to eye on it but the gist of what they all have to say still forms a very coherent image of the maladaptive self-narrative driven defense, coping and compensatory mechanism of pathological narcissism.

[@wackywally69420]

sugar is toxic according to certain people, its a subjective word

[@MolecularMachine]

Your neutral and empathetic approach to discussing NPD has really helped me understand myself and my parents. My parents are so good at acting polite and reasonable while they dissolve my personality to make me serve their needs. That makes it hard to identify their behavior in the typical examples people tend to give of NPD. My parents are very, very smart people, and they use those big brains to make me and my sister disappear while maintaining their marble-and-gold image. Thank you for helping me see that even marble can be made into veneer.

[@LadyVandMrT]

That's because you're describing Machavellianism.

[@dopeblacktherapist]

I like Dr. Ramani, but I have to say your content deserves a lot more recognition. It takes some the stigma and pop cultureness out of a devastating disorder and instead infuses humanity, compassion, caution, and awareness. Well done and thank you! I subscribed! (LCPC from Maryland)

[@SheilaDay-k6q]

It appears they treat everyone the way their parents treated them. No one intervened to help them see themselves as human beings.

[@deicheeves7301]

Cluster b milkshake sent me. Very glad she did. Here to rep for cluster bs

[@healnpd]

Welcome to the channel.

[@NarcissistSurvivorSociety]

Keep it going strong! The more people become aware of narcissistic abuse, the less harm it will cause.

[@margaretrees4434]

Thank you so much! At last, I have found someone who makes sense about this vastly misunderstood pattern of behaviour. Not only does it describe, but goes someway to explaining my husband's behaviour traits and how they have changed to being exactly the opposite of who he was when I first met him! Now I have found an explanation for my children to begin to understand why he now behaves as he does towards them. Understanding this, in the way described has given me hope that our family can begin to heal. A small beam of sunlight in a very dark and cloudy sky!

[@EMNaturefarmAZ]

This is the clearest and most concise definition I have ever seen.

[@JessCyph]

This is the best explanation I have heard of narcissist’s objectification of others and lack of connection to true self. In your experience, what typically leads a person to seek treatment? All of the videos I’ve seen state the narcissist must hit “rock bottom” to get help, but those videos are also quick to point out that many of them never hit that low because, in their eyes, their approach to life is working for them-or, when it’s not, it’s someone else’s fault.

[@healnpd]

I’m not sure about the necessity of hitting ‘rock bottom,’ if such a thing exists. I think most individuals with pathological narcissism seek treatment when in a state of collapse. For some, this is a chronic condition and they may have sought treatment numerous times (whether or not they were correctly identified as struggling with narcissism is a different issue). For others, particularly those with strong grandiose or compensatory defenses, collapse may be relatively infrequent and they therefore don’t seek treatment.

[@JessCyph]

Do you have any advice for someone who has been devalued and discarded by someone with NPD? I can intellectualize what happened until I’m blue in the face-your channel really does help-but it doesn’t stop the pain of loving and giving someone so much only to be made to feel unworthy of that person as they quickly move on to “greener pastures.”

[@healnpd]

@J - I think it is important to grieve the loss, to feel the disappointment and confusion, to let yourself be angry, sad, and ‘lost’ for a period of time while you process what happened. I also think it is important to recognize that the choices other people make are, ultimately, theirs. It is not a mistake to have loved someone, and you can’t hold yourself accountable for not knowing what you didn’t know. Use this as an opportunity to examine yourself compassionately and with acceptance and forgiveness. If you need work on boundaries, communication, or self-esteem then seek out a supportive therapist who can help you make sure that your next relationship is healthier and more satisfying to you.

[@JessCyph]

@@healnpd I do not regret anything, but letting go is nigh inconceivable. I was like a mom to his young daughter, and I love and miss her as much as I miss him. I am working on myself and with a therapist, but this is one loss too many to be able to grieve in my lifetime.

[@healnpd]

Some losses can never be fully grieved. I’m very sorry for yours.

[@cLuStErBMiLkShAkE]

Thank you for that clarification! Your channel and book is much appreciated! I do struggle with wondering what is my authentic self and what feels like fraudulence. Healing is a life long journey.

[@artsiomnaidzich9515]

Hi Sarah. Have you read the book called Untethered Soul? It defines self as an experience one is having at any particular moment. To count that experience as authentic, it must be felt with full range of emotions (not only selective emotions that make one feel good). One can become true self by allowing each experience to be remembered, serving as a building block for true self. Negative emotions will be observed and felt. As long as they are not neglected and brought to the surface (instead of repressed), negative emotions get worked out of ones body through different range of techniques (like breathing, meditation, exercise, etc). Whats left behind is a foundation of authentic self. one that experiences reality with all senses/emotions and remembers that experience starts to build true self. This process can work in reverse, where memories are brought to surface, repressed feelings are felt, and allowed to pass through one's body. I hope im making sense here. Thanks for all you do.

[@cLuStErBMiLkShAkE]

@@artsiomnaidzich9515 💗Thank you for the comment! I found the book being read on KZbin! I will check it out. 🌈

[@mac1291]

I so appreciate every single one of your videos! It’s so hard to constantly see the term narcissistic abuse when having NPD doesn’t equal abuse and when everyone is so busy saving everyone from NPD and it feels like there is no one to save us and I have no one to abuse because I struggle too much to connect to people altogether. So much for that lol.

[@healnpd]

Thanks for letting me know you find this helpful. I agree it is very frustrating. As a clinician, it is frustrating to see narcissism equated with broad categories of mistreatment and abuse that apply to numerous mental health conditions.

[@SeeDemDeh]

What about the abuse from Narcissist?

[@deicheeves7301]

@@SeeDemDeh do you mean a person with npd or strong narcissistic traits or....?

[@healnpd]

I could provide a list of videos focused exclusively on abuse from narcissists, but listing every one of them would take more time to type than years in the average human lifespan. I think we can all tolerate the existence of one video on NPD that leaves room for ways that narcisssistic abuse adversely affects BOTH the narcissist AND those around them.

[@JessCyph]

@@healnpdAbsolutely. As someone who desperately loves someone with NPD (and who has been at the receiving end of devaluation and discard), I don’t need more videos about how narcissistic abuse manifests itself. I seek to understand how I can be there for a person with NPD in a way that their parents and loved ones never were… But in a way that doesn’t require abandoning myself.

[@Corina-dq2my]

Thank you for explaining this correctly. Many people assume that someone is a narcissist based on superficial behaviors that don't necessarily mean someone has NPD. But, narcissistic abuse is rough. Tends to impact self worth, self respect and self trust. But many misconceptions exist in terms of how and why these behaviors occur. And you discussed many aspects of cluster b disorders that often aren't addressed. The loose concept of "Narcissistic Abuse" is one of them. More people need to watch this.

[@kaptainwarp]

6:50 you basically summed-up the entire state of Texas.

[@7snider7]

Of the experts on narcissism that I've encountered, I am as of this writing most impressed with Dr. Mark Ettensohn. I appreciate that he doesn't vilify narcissists. In fact, he says that this mental illness is treatable. At the same time, he cautions the rest of us to beware when dealing with them.

[@healnpd]

Thanks! I'm glad you are finding my channel helpful.

[@sarahmcnicol.lifecoach]

In my experience NPD people are sometimes aware they are abusing others, they just don’t care. It might even be said some of them get satisfaction from inflicting upset on others

[@mltiago]

They can have climpse of awareness. But it's not they just don't care. Mostly they are unaware of it and act impulsively based on internalized modes of being.

[@wackywally69420]

The self satisfaction is also a defense mechanism, against their own self awareness. Because as soon as someone realizes they are the problem, a deep shame comes up that feels literally unacceptable. So it gets warped into, "im doing this on purpose cuz i dont care and im a master manipulator" when the truth is actually "im terrified that i will never feel authentic connection, so im rejecting it before i ever have to feel rejected"

[@LadyVandMrT]

​@@mltiagono, that's not how caring works. If they can see it, and it doesn't make them feel compelled to behave differently, then they don't care. This wishy washy "I do things I don't want to and can't help myself" mentality is BS. You don't do anything you don't want to do, it's just that deep down, maybe you don't know yourself as well as you think.

[@jalopenogardiner5323]

And that it's all of the above makes it dangerous & insidious.

[@User-uw7uw]

This was really well articulated and one of the best advice videos for narcissists I have seen so far. Thank you

[@healnpd]

Glad it was helpful!

[@LadyVandMrT]

If the narcissist I just had the displeasure of cutting off saw this video, he would say "see?? I'm not abusive. Narcissism isn't inherently abusive. You made it all up because you hated me and wanted me gone" or some bullsh*t

[@emilyhagen4975]

This video is incredibly helpful. You described my abuser perfectly: desperate for attention, desperate for approval, desperate for affirmation. It must be exhausting. Please do a video on the dangers of enabling this behavior or "feeding the monster." Sorry not sorry. 🤷‍♀️

[@LadyVandMrT]

This video feeds monsters

[@irinadumitru9088]

I consider that boundaries is the greatest issue of this personality disorder!Excellent definition!

[@Freefolkcreate]

It seems that self reflection has such shame involved with early abuse, that it results in a missing in action emotional self. A kind of emotional deficit that means it must feed on the emotions and vulnerabilities of others. That doesn't mean they are aware of this, but it's effect is parasitic.

[@sbdsinc8366]

How do you find a self within if you’ve always had a false self? How flexible is the brain to change in structure once it’s set in its ways?

[@AV-69]

I've been watching your videos of late to understand NPD because I've had a really difficult time with someone who I suspect has it. I think the point about people with NPD not necessarily consciously manipulating you is so important. I was chatting to a friend about it recently and they referred to one if the traits as being "reflexive gaslighting", like someone is just gaslighting you without even realising they're doing it. It's really maddening to consistently be at the receiving end of that

[@edycrowley2878]

I so appreciate your approach to this subject and the information you provide. My need to understand NPD as a survivor of the abuse dished out to me by narcissists in my family, still continues.

[@welcomecataclysm]

I don't understand why the lack of a stable identity is only associated with BPD, when it sounds like so many pwNPD have no solid sense of self unless others are reflecting it back to them? That doesn't sound very stable to me.

[@jeffersonsmith6109]

Great! Good to know! However my family is still ruined by the narcissist we all have to suffer. What am I supposed to do? Forward this video to him and hope he makes the connection? As we now know all to well, that would only bring on the punishment, especially to the innocent children in our family, so, we continue to walk on egg-shells in this deranged horror of a "life" we now have to live as if the pain we all have depends on what we do or don't do. Punishment is always just around the corner either way.

[@sweet2sourr]

With NPD there is the false self… having BPD I have never felt like I have a false self but I don’t understand why. I could be vulnerable but my self was my favorite person. I was them. I have this protective mask until I see you as good (I think). What is the differences between all 4 cluster b disorders regarding identity?

[@healnpd]

That’s an interesting question, and one that I may take up in a future video. 🧐

[@EMNaturefarmAZ]

@@healnpdooh I’d love to see it. I have a narc dad and a borderline mom and I would love to have abetter understanding of how they both perceive themselves, and the ways this might’ve affected my own self image.

[@marylourodriguez9227]

Thanks so much. I totally identify. My Narc owned a non profit business helping ptsd patients ironically. Worked also in Forensics and passed away 6 months ago from a brain tumor and internal bleeding which I was unaware of Illness. This makes so much sense to me in the way he treated me and almost destroyed my 31 yr marriage since he called my husband!!!!!!

[@stillnotstill]

"my narc" kind of sounds a little like an object

[@BlackCoffeeee]

​@@stillnotstillI was just about to say the same thing.

[@ange7422]

Your videos explain things so eloquently.

[@healnpd]

Thanks, and thanks for watching. 🙂

[@ange7422]

@@healnpd you mentioned gaslighting. I personally don’t think most people do it on purpose. I think sometimes it’s just a shame reaction and some denial in small incidents. But can I ask, does the “reframing” change how they themselves remember events? Is it common for them to remember things falsely or not at all? I do understand that memory is very subjective and unreliable in general for anyone anyways. Everyone experienced things differently. But when people say they don’t remember many specific things at all, is that common with people personality disorders? Do people gaslight themselves? Do they believe what they say when you know that’s not the truth? Maybe I’m just an optimist but I’d like to think someone I care about isn’t lying to me. I’d like to believe there’s a reason for this. I hope you can clarify as you have such great insight.

[@poisonouspeople]

@@ange7422 I would say that gaslighting is not what people think it is. There is an understanding of gaslighting today that does not look anything like a traditional understanding of gaslighting from decades ago. I believe that a more classical understanding of gaslighting eliminates all confusion about this issue. A classical understanding of gaslighting supports the idea that gaslighting is always intentional. Therefore, when someone doesn't gaslight "on purpose", it doesn't qualify as gaslighting at all. I would also add that it's not possible to gaslight oneself. Gaslighting is a form of abuse; You can't abuse yourself (your fight or flight mind would never permit to you cause harm to yourself unless it believed the other option was even more harmful than any s*lf h*rm you are contemplating). When people say it is possible to "gaslight" oneself, they are actually referring to denial, delusion, self-preservation, OCD-like obsessive thoughts or compulsive mantras, or some type of hypnotic programming that was already installed by someone else. We don't do it to ourselves. Just my .02.🙂

[@LadyVandMrT]

​@@poisonouspeopleyou absolutely can gaslight yourself.

[@lanapetrack6420]

I also have witnessed another NPD. She is a art teacher and I think she has been diagnosed. But she couldn’t help her self to no t to abuse me. She couldn’t not stoped. Even they are trying to control their behaviour, the internal itche is to strong for them to control.

[@stillnotstill]

Please don't act like every person with NPD is an abuser that has to abuse. And also, you can say person with NPD.

[@LadyVandMrT]

I have never met a person who has NPD who is not abusive. I have also never succeeded as a spiritual counselor who uses diagnostic criteria correctly in convincing one to get professional help. Not one. Go off @stillnotstill

[@cupoftea2957]

Thanks so much for this, another good one. These videos are food for the starving soul. I love your definition of narcissistic abuse. I find it hard to summon the right words to describe how my abuser sucks all the life/goodness/humanity out of me. Sometimes I say they’re like a dementor in Harry Potter; when they’re in a self-esteem deficit there is no light, laughter or hope around, only a void. One that makes my soul ache as they suck from me to feed themselves. No humanity, only a dark, wretched hole devoid of all that is good. It’s such a cruel disorder. And now I’m identifying in my life where I’ve done the same to others and it’s extremely uncomfortable. I’m in therapy and seeing some changes at least and I won’t be having children so the abuse stops with me. For how much talk there is these days about narcissism, it still seems mostly misunderstood. There are no winners. I wouldn’t wish the horror of this disorder on anyone.

[@heidrunlehmann1023]

Das kann ich nur bestätigen.Ich wünsche diese Leere und diesen Schmerz eie eine Mistel zu sein und andere auszusaugen keinem Wesen... Und ich würde alles tun bzw geben um dieses Loch mit einem authentischen SELBST zu Füllen

[@apoorva203]

Your videos are super helpful and insightful once one is out of the abusive cycle and relatively detached. That’s a tough journey in itself. It’s easier to grasp objectivity when not deeply triggered by reality, I feel.

[@NarcissistSurvivorSociety]

Keep up the good work! The more we talk about narcissistic abuse, the fewer will suffer.

[@caracopland710]

In a sentence- passive aggressive treatment is how I describe my own. He never struck me but he did very awful things in SILENCE. A shy narc obviously. It’s very clear shy narcs that stonewall are simply passive aggressive in any manner they can muster 🧡🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 I now feel guilty I left but that’s part of the abuse

[@BlackCoffeeee]

Was he actually diagnosed by a health practitioner with NPD? Because the traits you describe could be attributed to many things. Also, calling an actual sufferer of NPD 'a narc' is very disrespectful.

[@nancyhagan7553]

Never feel guilty for leaving a narc Important for you to heal Otherwise he will hurt you until you or him dies I was married to one for 40years divorced 6years ago he is still finding ways to hurt me Alienating my children from me Financial abuse Smear campaigns are all not enough for him Please continue to heal without guilt and live your life you deserve better You are not his mother Good luck and Blessings

[@rebekahhawkins1318]

It’s very hard to not see it as abuse when it’s singling out the partner… and the instant change when they are around other people but the moment it’s just you and the lateness BAM… it’s abuse, belittling, ignoring, or acting like nothing abusive never happened TO anyone except the NPD PRONS

[@MyHeadHurts32]

Thank you so much for being objective and giving me a proper understanding. Your channel is the ONLY one that I have come across that isn't filled with emotion and opinions. Thank you 😊

[@StephenGrew]

Thanks very much for shining a bit more light on this disturbing subject.

[@elizabethgeorge1936]

I was suffering abuse an npd for 12 yes now....thank you for the information....I am very. Relived my apprehension s are gone

[@sonnyh9774]

Thank you for your video. There appears to be large number of "counselors" who label almost every man a narcissist and almost every "sin" proof or validation for the label. This smearing is not helpful and frustrating to see because it appears to berate men and almost be a form of abuse in and of itself. Terms need specificity. Ambiguity is a formidable enemy.

[@Clevelandsteamer324]

5:52 they only have an identity if someone projects it onto them. They are like a movie screen that needs a projector. Or they are nothing.

[@neohabilis7412]

You are the first mental health professional I have heard say (paraphrasing) that the person with NPD is a victim also. I feel the same way. I wish there were focused guidance for (or a study of) NPD partner-victims who do not blame their partner.... and who, knowing this, don't want to move on and leave them behind. They are hurting, too. In some ways, more than we are. We were able to climb the wall. Through no fault of their own... not everyone is.

[@sweet2sourr]

I like how you lined this video up with examples

[@healnpd]

Thank you ☺️

[@KerryLeighBrett]

I feel so sorry for the guys childhood, it must have been extremely painful, because the pain he has put me through is like a car accident.

[@ssfourvegeta]

Would it make more sense then to call it Cluster B abuse? I would define this form of abuse (intentional or not) as the formation of a trauma bond through variable intermittent reinforcement as well as the continuing abuse cycle of rage/tantrums followed by shallow affection. It should be criminal for those who have received a diagnosis to not inform potential romantic partners. The psychological abuse is torturous, and it doesn't matter if it is intentional or not. The pain from the relationship often seems less than the pain of breaking the trauma bond, which is why victims stay even if they are being abused.

[@Cowface]

So all these words have stormed into the public lexicon… gaslighting, devaluation, hoovering, love bombing, minimization, invalidation, triangulation, blame shifting, projection, etc. What do we call them collectively then? Are they just called emotional abuse? Also I’d heard that before, that narcissistic abuse is not just emotional abuse by a narcissist, but a form of abuse that involves the target losing their sense of self by way of being used routinely to meet the emotional needs of others. Sam vaknin I guess came up with the term and used this definition, I heard about it on Michele Nieves’ channel

[@mrfear1526]

Yes, those tactics are quite literally just textbook emotional abuse.

[@mrfear1526]

You do not need some special term that demonizes vulnerable people in the process. If you think what you went through was bad then imagine what people with NPD had to go through to turn out this way.

[@LadyVandMrT]

​@@mrfear1526no, I don't make a habit of letting people who play the victim to manipulate me show up as victims in my brain. I know they went through some sh*t, and I don't care. They don't care about what they put others through, so they don't earn the right to be cared about reciprocally.

[@SherriBoggs-kj2lk]

Thank you so much for sharing your excellent understanding with us! Incredible work! You've filled in SO many blanks.

[@rebeccacruse9163]

I was in love with a narcissist once I didn't know he was but as i got to know him I saw it i am glad i am educated on this now!!! 😫😫😫😫

[@daisybrown3819]

This is so well thought and helpful in understanding this subject please continue to make this videos there is no other videos on npd as good as this channel

[@dogtrainingmexico]

Very clear and comprehensive explanation

[@michellembarre5032]

You’re amazing! 🎊 🎉 your explanation is spot on! It’s unconscious and truly a defense mechanism. Do they know they are being unreasonable? Sometimes I question that…I believe they do when it’s a control issue but when they collapse it’s unconscious. Please advise

[@LadyVandMrT]

You're falling for the trap right now. They will never give even this much energy back to you. You cannot fix them.

[@Anne.....]

Thank you very much for the explanation.

[@healnpd]

You are welcome!

[@rmr1300]

I Really appreciate these videos. I highly suspect I have NPD. The PNI was much more helpful and relatable for me. Do you have any tips on what therapy or therapist I should seek out to work with personality disorders?

[@cupoftea2957]

@Oakhard Woodroberts He has a video on the topic of finding a therapist, don’t remember the name of it, but it’s there somewhere!

[@MaurettaDecker]

The worst thing is one day week years you never know when what where they will appear

[@MrWaldynyc]

Another great episode, would you ever touch on how NPD is linked to Pathological lying, magical thinking or is it related to a cognitive thought process deficit? Thank you

[@stephenestall9044]

Whatever it's called, anyone who has been subjected to the manipulation, lies, lack of empathy and total self-centeredness of a person like this, has much more to worry about than the name

[@texasorange285]

Mark… God Bless you!!! As an only child,now 63 years young. ***Your empathetic insight has helped me peel back the layers of my 88 year old narcissistic father…..Who has simply devastated every person in his path… Here in Texas …You are appreciated!!!

[@rachelsimbhu3965]

Spot on doc , I was robbed as a child now I have a false self ! In addition I developed a few other mental health disorders

[@KJ-ci7td]

Npd is not a choice but some of the behaviors that they choose to engage in are

[@MinDeRien2658]

Okay so. Genuine question: How does a person with NPD *get* diagnosed if they aren't seeking to address the NPD? I'm studying to become a psychologist and we're not supposed to tell people / assess for things that aren't in the... idk the word in french, but the concern that the patient is bringing forward to assess. I.e. we're not supposed to be diagnosing people against their will and such. So. How would someone with NPD actually *get* a diagnosis unless they are willing to seek help?

[@personneici2595]

I would really appreciate a video on what loved ones can do to encourage someone they suspect, or who has been formally diagnosed with NPD, to seek help. Maybe it's just a case of being patient and doing our best to protect me from the symptoms of the disorder but I'd appreciate your perspective if you're willing to share. I know those types of videos are everywhere with bad information so it would be really helpful, I think, to get the perspective of someone who actually treats and helps people with NPD

[@MilushevGeorgi]

As a blue ray starseed I had to push though years of Narcissistic military people in my family, after I got some of them in check, I married a severe BPD, my current wife, after twenty years of abuse I got her in check, another eight years abuse by narcissistic petty tyrant bosses in relatavely high level corporate world, got them in check. Now I’m chilling waiting for a new adventure, for whatever reason I’m looking for friction with the global subconscious, not getting scared and am getting a kick out of it. Again not sure what’s next but I might be done with the abusers in my life, bosses, colonel parents, wife, all in check, they all saw what they have done. The key was to have them empathize to your emotional trauma. Narcissists communicate via internal archetypes of people in their head, very inflexible. For example Matt is clumsy, Beth is stupid, etc. they create internal archetypes of people , when they talk to you they actually refer to their twisted representation of you in their head. It’s incredibly rigid, my advice, have them understand that they hurt you, at some point when they see it they can’t unsee it, it’s just gonna take twenty years of everyday work and abuse.I never left anyone of my abusive relationships because I have a calling for this shit. Upside is that if you are in the 1% and push through, I recommend people actually leave this relationship, for most the fight is not worth it, the recovered BPD will have mad respect for you, after all is done they will see you for what you are and realize they abused you and the dirty games the played and they will be deeply sorry, make them say sorry verbally multiple times over the years, at first they won’t say it, than they will say it but not believe it, and when they see it, that’s the best feeling in the world, their eye sight changes, they don’t have the reptile abusive stare no more. Last advise and prolly most important, absolutely make sure that you both agree that they are abusers. It’s not easy to have a narcissist agree to that, but when they do, start bringing it up, they will explode and hate that you call them abusers, than you revert to previous agreement remind them that you were hurt and they are the abusers, drive them crazy with this point until tenor motherboard can’t take it.Thousand repetitions of this ringer the point across

[@themasculinismmovement]

Lol but we are also told that we need to empathize with others more and try to imagine how we make them feel....but others don't have to do that with us and we have to take full responsibility for how they make us feel even if they are acting without empathy and being legitimately hurtful? Why is it that we have to abide by these double standards where we are always the ones who are wrong? Everything can't be our responsibility.

[@ioannafardella3717]

I agree (I m not pd). & to me ppl don t need to learn empathy or emotions - to me that would be of no value. It would be a good thing for the person /experience of life but i get it that you see it differently. I wonder how ppl thought it s NT who stigmatise NPD. Ironically it s ND (groups of victims are full of them & they massively don t see some reason to mention it). I don t see any logic on accusing the npd..but i also didn t feel for him. That d be impossible (just a neighbor). Point is NT = in touch w reality / ability for critical thinking & cognitively empathising. Since 1/20 is ND & MANY of them are online i suspect that maybe online psychologists+coaches ofc address to ND ppl. A NT prof wouldn t talk like that about any disorder. Also weird that ND is promoted as an identity but psycopathy isn t. Or NPD that is so similar to NPD..

[@LadyVandMrT]

A narc is always a victim.

[@karenb.9199]

The definition of narcissism is so broad and encapulates so much because narcissism is the sin nature. We all have one. We are born with it. For instance, parents have to teach toddlers how to share, not how to be selfish. I respect if you are not religious and do not believe that there is a God, but regardless, this is the state of things. We come out selfish. This is pervasive across all of humanity.

[@angelfortruth12]

Amen 🙏🏻

[@crispusmahea2135]

Hey Dr., "The topic of narcissistic abuse tends to be highly charged and people tend to have extremely strong feelings about it". Correct, because the impact on the victim is extensively damaging and often fatal. As human beings we have a strong instinct for survival and self preservation and therefore narcisstic abuse being an existential threat, warrants for the reaction it gets from normal people who just want to make the best out of their time here on earth.

[@rosetheserpent]

Love your video its the first honest representation I’ve encountered on youtube.

[@kocovce]

Everyone is healing they hatred by hated!!! So question is , who’s better than?!

[@sheiladay-od2me]

Like you, I feel compassion for these individuals and appreciate knowing that with a good therapist they can integrate all facets of their personalities without having to be perfect. I cannot imagine not being able to just be themselves. Thanks again for a humane look at how these people can be helped.

[@bozbicidianamaria9232]

Thank you for your video! I highly appreciate your way of thinking. I aspire to be a practitioner who sees and honors our shared humanity, just as you seem to do so gracefully.

[@Doves-eo8ud]

I agree that the term "narcissistic abuse" is murky and sometimes misused; however, Dr. Ramani Durvasula argues in her new book that the diagnosis of NPD should be disbanded because "there is little substantial evidence for accessible treatment, and because there is little reliability across clinicians in assigning this diagnosis." She uses the term "narcissistic abuse" in her book - not to demonize anyone, but as a descriptor to help survivors not minimize their experiences. She also describes NPD as a "paradoxical illness that may harm the people the narcissistic person interacts with more than it harms the narcissistic individuals themselves." This is a complex issue with diverse perspectives.

[@LadyVandMrT]

Oh does the creator not reply to comments like this? Telling. I cannot wrap my head around what he thinks he is accomplishing with this channel. The facts are all factual, but the accidental victim blaming and demand for empathy towards abusers is messed up. He replies to none of the well worded and valuable critical comments like this one.

[@poisonouspeople]

@@LadyVandMrT I have been reading through all your comments since receiving a notification that you replied to one of mine. Clearly, you are triggered by this content. As @Doves-eo8ud stated, "This is a complex issue with diverse perspectives," which respects the fact that there are other perspectives on this issue than his/her own. You do not seem to be okay with people having diverse perspectives. Why is that? What do you think you will accomplish by simply dismissing others' views? As a former cult member, I can tell you that I once was like you. I became very triggered by people who did not agree with my view of things. I felt like it was my job to "save the world" from these people who I thought were so "uniformed". I have since learned to appreciate varying viewpoints and disagree with them politely. Your tone in this comment section seems antagonistic to me, and this particular comment towards the uploader of this video is especially antagonistic. You may be interested to know that "antagonistic" is one of the words Dr. Ramani uses to describe narcissistic personalities. You may also be interested to know that the reason she has chosen to use this word is because it comes straight from the DSM-V alternate critieria for diagnosing narcissism. So even though she says she wants the diagnosis "disbanded," she is still relying very heavily on the DSM to formulate her definition of what a narcissist is. Fortunately, I am not someone to jump to conclusions and immediately think you are a narcissist for coming across as antagonistic. As we've established, this is a complex issue with diverse perspectives. Your perspective may come from narcissism. On the other hand, it may come from trauma. They can look the same. But what you may not realize is that channels like this (and mine) exist for the healing of both types of people. If you are hurting, this may sound crazy, but you are actually in good hands here! I believe very strongly that the narcissism industry is exploiting the pain and suffering of people like yourself. The only way that we can combat this is to correct the skewed perspectives that the narcissism industry promotes. These skewed perspectives are how the industry preys off of its consumers/victims: it fuels their anger, and much like a cult, it creates an "us vs. them" mentality, designed to program people to dismiss anyone who holds a different perspective. Thus, the industry does the very thing it accuses narcissists of doing: it psychologically isolates you so that you won't be open to other perspectives. It exploits your pain, suffering, trauma and anger for views, likes, subscribes, and paid products. It does this by telling you what you want to hear, even if it's not fully accurate (or downright false). Finally I will say that different perspectives are GOOD. Without them, we don't have a fighting chance at criticial thinking. Without opposing viewpoints, we do not have intellectual freedom. We are given one perspective and we are forced to adopt that perspective, and we often do so, oblivious that choice even exists. You don't have to agree with any of us here. But I hope you will consider how the narcissism industry may have influenced you to dismiss our views. I hope that whatever you are struggling with -- even if it's anger at channels like this one -- you will find peace.

[@LadyVandMrT]

@@poisonouspeople dude, I run a Universalist organization with a server that doesn't believe in censorship, for people who easily offend others by having extreme views or questioning the norm. You really got it wrong in this psychoanalysis. You can feel free to Google me and find my own channels, my name is Victoria Tehilah Firewind. That will get you to me. I disagree with people all day and love it, and learn the most of all from disagreement. I surround myself with diversity as much as possible. I don't know what else to say. You could not be more off here lol Also, at no point in time in these comments was I triggered. I get triggered, but you'll have to try harder than this. You are clearly projecting.

[@LadyVandMrT]

@@poisonouspeople wow this comment goes on. I have taken 3 different assessments for narcissism recently, because I was determining if they are good to give to others. I am a spiritual counselor and our organization is very academic and uses the DSM. I do not test positive for narcissism, usually significantly below average, I think I scored average for the NPI, but I have some criticisms of it's questions on appearance and it's ability to gauge self obsession in the face of realism in people who are genuinely very attractive, intelligent, or skilled. Lots of convos on that on my channels, if you wanted to know more. What else is in this monster comment?

[@LadyVandMrT]

@@poisonouspeople ah yes, it's so fortunate for me that you are not misjudging me, you say, after misjudging me for two paragraphs lol also, why is that fortunate? Why should I care what you think about me, a stranger who has read a handful of my comments on a single subject in a KZbin video? Maybe I am not the one aggrandizing my ego here, in this very exchange lol

[@Polksalad615]

Nothing wrong with MY understanding, You Tube, team!

[@MichNative01]

Live in it for awhile, you will come up with different forms that may not resemble your neighbor because people are different, no two are alike. But the destruction of your family is very similar in the end.

[@johnandersson8258]

I generally sympathize with what you’re saying. As a term, NA is way overused. But I don’t think this definition perfectly hits the bull's eye, because NA here is defined as something completely active ("using", "exploiting") on the narcissist’s part, while ignoring things that happen _as a response_ to the other party simply being unwilling to comply to being used or exploited or to comply to polishing the bubble of the false self. That is, it ignores what happens to the narcissist when s/he receives a narcissistic injury (in the psychodynamic sense). And as anyone close to a narcissist knows, that is where _most_ of the abuse comes from. A person can use or exploit another without being a narcissist - that’s just actions. But very small and even imagined things can cause narcissistic injuries to narcissists (and other disordered people, but they also, in that case, react to feeling _narcissistic_ injuries) and then you're fair game. That’s why the sheer quantity of things that occur in most relationships without being very problematic turns into abuse in this case, as the other party starts walking on eggshells while their personality slowly withers away - to avoid the reactions of hurting the false self. I had a relationship with someone very likely npd. And I, for one, would _gladly_ have tolerated _more_ exploitation, more of being used, if it wasn’t for the unpredictable, arbitrary and hyper-charged reactions to things I wouldn’t - and couldn’t - even dream of making a thing out of. This is where things like devaluing and even manipulation comes in - to preserve what’s often called the false self. But that is not using or exploitation (unless I misinterpret what you mean by ‘using' (in which case exploitation also is a form of use and hence redundant)). So in my humble opinion, if I were you I’d consider phrasing it something more like: Narcissistic Abuse: Using, exploiting or suppressing* someone in a way that negates or diminishes their subjectivity, selfhood or value** in order to meet one’s own self-esteem needs. *or something like that - penalizing/ interdicting/overbearing/quelling/quashing/defeating; you get the point. **or self-esteem This doesn’t encompass conscious manipulation, gaslighting and things like that either. But in a quite diplomatic way it still preserves some elements of what most people that has, or has had, relationships with narcissists, feel is the most dominant and deteriorative part of it - as a direct result of the narcissist’s need to regulate self-esteem. And it is also closer to what many self-aware narcissists, often in a less diplomatic way, report about what happens when they feel insecure. Thanks for an interesting and humanizing video :)

[@healnpd]

I generally agree.

[@lisbethbird8268]

dismissing, ridiculing, undermining, browbeating, torturing consciously

[@poisonouspeople]

I am 100% against the term "Narcissistic Abuse" but this may be the best definition I've ever heard to support the term actually having a distinct purpose in our lexicon. Your example would explain the actions of cult leaders, but it would not be applied to cult members. Cult members can engage in what people call "narcissistic abuse" but it's not to meet their self-esteem needs. It's because they've been programmed to act that way, or they are under duress. It's one of the main reasons I boycott the term. We've had a more suitable term that's been in use for decades: it's called "psychological abuse," and perfectly describes the abuse without making any allusion to any particular diagnosis, i.e. NPD. I appreciate your contribution to this discussion.

[@johnandersson8258]

@@poisonouspeople Thanks. Yes, I thought about including "security" or 'safety'' since that's, most likely, what it really boils down to in the end. But then it would, as you say, include for example cult members, bullies and honestly basically everyone from time to time. Hence, if the term should be used, it should be used for behaviors pertaining to self-esteem, as basically the original myth says. In a sense I, too, prefer "psychological abuse", but I think it may still be too wide a term to not blur the differences in some situations. I would, as an example, prefer to deal with a bully rather than a narcissistic partner any day of the week, for reasons quite specific to the narcissistic condition. I'll check your channel out, as I read in other comments here that you're making a video on this of your own.

[@poisonouspeople]

@@johnandersson8258 I have been away for several weeks . . . but it is definitely on my list of "to do" videos. 🙂

[@leticiateixeira3761]

I'm crying.

[@brandonmcalpin9228]

The only thing I’d add is that gaslighting is rare and typically only used by psychopaths or drug addicts/alcoholics, because it’s inherently goal oriented. It takes much more than denying or trying to “make your partner feel crazy”. Real gaslighting goes like this: I have a goal; could be to somehow take something valuable from you without you knowing it was me and I can’t get caught. So. I start small. I take your keys. I sit back and watch you tear the house apart in search for them, until you’re on the verge of pulling your hair out. I then sneak them back where they were and watch you flip out when you find them. The goal is to make you mistrust your judgement, your ability to remember things and overall mistrust your perception so you can rely on me. I’ll do this again and again with various things until you’re dependent on me, at this point I can safely take what I want and if you find out, I’ll brush it off and say you lost it, don’t you remember? That’s gaslighting, but originally it was a phenomenon of patients being taken to the psyche ward, but they insists they aren’t crazy over and over. Turns out, family members or someone else, could’ve a stranger, does this for some goal in mind; usually finances or something to do with money usually.

[@tanuking-sq7iy]

I've heard that there are a lot of narcissists in the police and military. In these workplaces, the norm is generally to ignore one's own feelings and carry out one's duties in accordance with the law and orders. Of course, the reason these organizations ignore individual feelings is to carry out the larger goal of protecting public order and the country more fairly. There's a big difference in that it's not for the sake of satisfying someone's ego, like narcissistic abuse, but I thought there might be some similarities.

[@timtim8468]

What's drawing in narc into troops is the shiny uniform for the false self, and the possibility to rule over others with an iron rod. Fame and power by hard work. The more narc, the more gain.

[@markgamache6377]

Are there any studies that support your assertion that NPD can be treated successfully and not just some vague awareness of what they are doing?

[@sweet2sourr]

Good to see your video

[@catdelbuono]

Where can a family get help with a family member who has narcissistic personality disorder? They don't think anything is wrong with them and will not go to therapy but there must be a way to help them.

[@healnpd]

You may find my book helpful.

[@agent_exodus]

I agree that the term is murky and that there are two primary sides to these situations. But It’s so difficult to describe and or understand. Does it need a new name? Yeah. I’d say “narcissism” is often a very misleading name in and of itself, at least superficially… I don’t want to stigmatize” narcissistic people, but they are often a unique danger in and of themselves. Especially to anyone more susceptible to… whatever one wishes to refer to …what they tend to do and are kinda known for. I have all the respect in the world for narcissistic people in treatment. Especially those who have been sharing information about themselves openly. But those that are not… in my experience, and cumulatively, it has been like suffering at the hands of some nameless/faceless nightmare. I’m no clinician, and I’m sure I’m using terms you are not fond of. So, my apologies for that. I don’t see things as either this or that but often this and that. In this case, I see what you’re saying and agree. But there is another, very difficult side to it as well. That being said, I just want to emphasize how much I appreciate your work and videos. I sent one just the other day to a “self aware narcissist” the other day. It was the one where you discussed an exercise for connecting with threads of being within that feeling of emptiness they tend to have. I thought that was brilliant. Almost like teaching dormant neurons to fire together again.

[@stillnotstill]

I don't want to do X, but * X *

[@agent_exodus]

@@stillnotstill que?

[@LadyVandMrT]

​@@agent_exodusdon't mind stillnotstill, they're the narc in the comments. This was well worded and I agree 100%. It's very reasonable for people to vilify a condition that vilifies itself.

[@mas7241]

Wow. Brilliant. Well defined.

[@michaelgarrow3239]

Bs- narcissists will spend years undermining and ruining a person’s life.

[@healnpd]

@michaelgarrow3239 - Anyone with or without mental illness could spend years ruining someone’s life. Nothing about such an endeavor is particular to narcissism, so it shouldn’t be called “narcissistic abuse.” Only things that are actually specific to pathological narcissism should be named after it. In this video, I outline a clear form of interpersonal mistreatment that is both a consequence of pathological narcissism as well as a potential cause of it.

[@susanmcmahon4733]

Was married to a narcissist for 28yrs it WAS HELL, didn't know about NPD then, only problem he thinks he is perfect and everyone else is the problem, he doesn't accept accountability for his own actions and all the affairs he has had and the pain he caused the whole family, it's EXTREMELY PATHETIC the way they live, it ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING, he was NEVER ABLE TO DO FAMILY or have ANY FAMILY VALUES, he 66 now and still running around after women he is a LAUGHING STOCK, plus MONEY is his main priority too, nothing to do with children or Grandkids they don't know him at all, just a SAD SAD WAY TO LIVE, but you have to save yourself at the end of the day.

[@stillnotstill]

Thank you, as someone who thinks abuse is abuse and inexcusable no matter what, and the way that people with NPD get generally talked about is inexcusable as well, including equating that with being abusive, I just came from the KZbin channel of a, I guess he's a counselor or therapist or something, and a lot of it is great stuff but then it's like. Hey just because you're (you = tge other KZbinr) talking about family members doesn't mean you have to talk about narcissistic abuse in that way and please as a professional facilitate different language around the very real abuse that people are experiencing.

[@ganjagangja]

This is an excellent vid. 👏

[@healnpd]

Thank you.

[@attractarattigan3574]

Is it possible that an abuser will get help to recover from NPD. From my experience the abuser would not take any advice - regardless of the source. His policy only. Made me ill. So sad.

[@EmbraceTerror]

Nicely done! I disagree that your official industry's stance is well-equipped to handle this clientele.