HEATED Debate Over Voting For Biden & Electoralism VS. SocialistMMA (THROWBACK)

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#Vaush #Debate

[@GO-sz1nv]

Lmao randomly throwing in "black people don't owe you shit". He's a living TikTok comment section.

[@iz2333]

They owe me some class solidarity. Vote Josef Biden 4 chairman 2024.

[@garfieldGG]

Black people were the ones who voted for Biden in the first place too, which makes that comment even more hilariously stupid.

[@JohnnyYK]

Do you think we owe you anything?

[@bruced09]

@@JohnnyYK pretty sure it’s about how it wasn’t exactly relevant. Especially since it’s more about how those on the left should’ve voted for Biden because he would be better for us than trump, not about black people owing anyone anything

[@JohnnyYK]

@@bruced09 The whole strategy of the dems Biden especially is to say "At least we aren't the republicans". The dems cannot keep their basic promises let alone be reformed into an actual left wing party and they especially won't switching the US to a better voting system/remove the constitutional congress. Due to this many black people didn't want to vote for jim crow joe nor the orange fascist pos. Voting blue in the US is like putting a Band-Aid bullet wound, it'll buy ourselves a few minutes at best, and pointless at worst. So I'll ask again, do black people owe you their vote?

[@GO-sz1nv]

I can tell this guy is chronically online because who would want to listen to someone who permanently screams all the time. Mad behavior.

[@EpsilonUnitGaming]

Dude for real. Good god. He says “this is a conversation.” No, it most certainly was not. Edit: ok it got quite a bit better after awhile.

[@GO-sz1nv]

@@EpsilonUnitGaming yeah it took awhile, but it did get better over time

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

Obama's hypocrisy radicalized me. Hearing everyone say that racism ended when Obama was elected and having that conflict with my own experience forced me to question what people actually meant by "racism being over" forced me to actually find information on how to qualify something so abstract and to learn American history in order to explain why it took so long for us to have a black president when black people have been here from the start.

[@Potatotenkopf]

Bruh black people are 13% of the population, it's not that crazy that it took so long to get a black president, it's not like black people are 80% or something.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

@@Potatotenkopf so they'd be 13% of the presidents or 13% of the Congress people? Women would be half of them too, right? Why was it ever the case that they couldn't vote? Please bro your brain is falling out. Stop commenting and go to a doctor

[@Potatotenkopf]

@@TwoForFlinchin1 they wouldn't be 13% of the total government because they don't get fair representation due to slavery, Jim crow, segregation, racism?

[@almosthelpless9374]

Trump becoming president also caused many Democratic voters to be terrified of losing again so they were able to be convinced to go for the "safe" option of Joe Biden or another conservative/moderate in the 2020 primary. Not as many Democratic primary voters had that same attitude in 2016. I don't know if Joe Biden is running in 2024, but I could see a progressive that comes out of nowhere doing well in the primary due to Democrats being frustrated by Joe Biden's action similar to how some felt about Obama. We'll see.

[@megaman7661]

Obama is the first biracial Kenyan American president, he isn't ados/fba/b1 at all. We only claimed "Black" because we have no country outside usa and our DNA comes from many west African and central African tribes.

[@daniellew307]

I forgot how fucking awful SocialistMMA's audio was during this. Hope he's learned what an equalizer is since this.

[@jerichotroy2662]

SocialistMMA walked so Haz could run

[@BrockObama2016]

The timely audio breaks make this debate

[@FelisImpurrator]

I guess he is a real leftist, he's got that quality socialist audio...

[@norjia]

Or a compressor and a dynamic microphone, also what a limiter is and how to fucking turn off noise reduction, also how to treat a room for audio. Would be great ngl

[@GwynC]

@@norjia and also just to not rabidly yell directly into the mic hole

[@FortuitousOwl]

“Vote shaming” has got to be the stupidest and most hilarious fake woke phrase I’ve ever heard lol

[@thehumantoeRD]

"Losing to trump will cause the democratic party to move further left" is one of the smoothest brain takes ever. Its so stupid it gives me a migraine and makes me go cross eyed.

[@jamesyount2423]

The belief is that the DNC will realize that they lost because they lost the vote of all of the progressives and therefore, they need to field more progressive policies if they hope to beat republicans in the future. The problem is that this isn't actually what happens, as Vaush points out. What really happens is that the DNC concludes that republicans won because rightwing policies must be more popular to the American people and, therefore, the DNC should field more rightwing policies and candidates like Joe Manchin. So progressives not voting is inherently self defeating.

[@charlieputzel7735]

Ah yes, let's risk further damage to pur democracy and the rolling back of hard fought civil rights gains for the vague hope that maybe the party we just told to go fuck themselves will come crawling to us begging for forgiveness. -That guy Yeah, at that point just admit you don't like electoralism and only want an armed revolution. It's an honest position I can at least understand.

[@terrystevens3998]

I wonder how many of these people are just secret closet fascists that didn’t care to help stop the fascist movement because they hate this country because it has never been good to them.

[@kyoungt14]

*Looks at the 2020 primary results when Trump is already president* “Yes I firmly believe the Democrats would move further left if trump is still in office.”

[@SarahRoseCO10]

This convo made my baby cry, lol. Had to go to headphones. Man that guy really proves that no matter what you're saying, if you say it like a deranged lunatic, you look wrong. This guy was also actually objectively wrong, but still.

[@SarahRoseCO10]

@Dr. Osterman lol truuuue

[@NiceGuyFatz]

Aww poor lil baby :'(

[@distorted_imagination]

I took critical thinking, ethics and philosophy in University and this boy made ME cry. Buddy's brain is more scrambled than eggs.

[@Radjhitoocool]

I think he’s just confusing democratic voters with the Democratic Party. He keeps hearing move Biden to the left and he thinks that impossible for understandable reasons.

[@ImTheHuggernaut]

@Dr. Osterman As an unintelligent adult I also cried actually

[@Pervatory]

The silence when Vaush finally muted him was the sweetest thing to ever grace my ears.

[@stabbymcpokey5901]

The 20 minute mark was the best

[@canadagoose8543]

Shaming people for not voting is not voter shaming, because they are not voters.

[@r.m8146]

LMAO

[@Andrew_H43]

Trueeee

[@Based_Proletariat]

Shaming people who vote 3rd party, is voter shaming. You can't shame people into voting for parties they don't want to vote for.

[@Lokki_Jay]

This is actually so true.

[@flarone]

Thank you for your sensible response, violent borderline psychopathic avian forghorn death machine.

[@thefailuregamer1438]

Everyone on Twitter thought Vaush was gonna get decimated, LOL

[@ashfox7498]

Is this the dude that just accused Vaush of jerking off instead of making a real argument?

[@trentirvin2008]

You’re kidding right?

[@ashfox7498]

It is and he was way worse than I remember

[@markd.s.8625]

@@trentirvin2008 nah folks overestimate themselves and then Vaush kicks their ass

[@adamsmasher9769]

@@ashfox7498 what is this in reference to?

[@SamuraIcarus3]

Tbh the fact that Vaush was the only prominent lefty I saw advocating firmly for the good that voting for Biden over Trump would do was why I started watching him in the first place. My media diet was super progressive liberal but online anyone who wasn't a professional in politics had such terrible ideas about how Biden and Trump were equally bad and it just felt frighteningly stupid and clear to me that was the case. I've definitely moved more leftward since then and it all started with simple advocacy for a reasonable electoral strategy

[@wrazzberrie1197]

Yea, I remember literally being dogpilled by leftists on twitter for saying Trump was demonstrably worse. Interestingly enough there were quite a few launching transphobic remarks. I sure felt vindicated by January 6th. Also important to note most of the people who were arguing that Trump and Biden were the same were white and cis people. So there was definitely alot of privileged informing that take.

[@TheAmericanAmerican]

Same here and that's why Vaush is my #1 Leftist source. Not that it's that impressive, but I've been doing the whole political KZbin thing since 2009 and Vaush is by far the most grounded and logical commentator on the internet imo.

[@garfieldGG]

It’s so obviously right, but it was refreshing because the Kulinskis, Dores, even TYTs of the world were all shaky on who was better. Which was completely ridiculous.

[@jasper9291]

He’s Biden’s puppet. Vaussh is the attack dog for the DNC.

[@onyourleft5648]

Not simping for hasan at all but he seemed to also support Biden over trump which is a good

[@bagelgrenade8332]

"I don't want to move Biden left, I want to move the voters left" "But this won't move Biden left" Repeat these two sentences for an hour

[@HLVEYT]

This dude is the bad side of Bernie supporters... He didn’t want to have a discussion.

[@terrystevens3998]

He is all hopped up on Jimmy Dore and Kyle Kulinski bad takes. The anger is real, but refusing to stop a fascist right winger from rising to power with it is just amazingly dumb, people to the left of the dems that don’t vote dem always make me scratch my head, especially when they are passionate about politics. If you want the country to move to the left, the only logical intelligent move is to vote left.

[@stevenheibner]

"The goal is to move them left." "But they'll (the DNC) never move left." "Individuals can be persuaded to move left, i.e. voters, NOT the DNC" "But how are you gonna get them to move left when we didn't get them to move left under Obama." "Obama's ineptitude paved the way for socialism to make a resurgence in the US. There are more socialists here now than ever before." "But it's not left enough so let's give up." Room temp i.q. energy.

[@slackershrub8923]

Timestamp for this?

[@midwesternilluminati3951]

My favorite is “Obama moved to the right because he didn’t do what he campaigned on” just shows you how much this dude understands politics

[@sypherthe297th2]

That's because a lot of people on the left think the president is a dictator so if they didn't do something ot was because they didn't want to. The smarter ones at least acknowledge that Congress exists. . . but think the parties march in lockstep. It's still fairly pathetic. The idea that the Congress is a major stumbling block to a President's agenda because you have to get 218+ people with many wildly different ideologies and red lines in the House before repeating the process to get 60+ in the Senate is too complicated for all but a handful of people grasp. This MMA guy is clearly just some jock who presumes to have an opinion far beyond his mental faculties. It's not really shocking that he'd be wrong. Repeatedly. At pretty much every opportunity.

[@angryretailbanker5103]

"Vaush! You're not letting me speak! *Incoherent screaming* WHY AREN'T YOU LETTING ME SPEAK, VAUSH!?"

[@garfieldGG]

vaush was so savage, this was great. Edit: holy shit I forgot how unhinged this guy is, and Vaush defeating this madman is what made Vaush the most hated leftist on the internet

[@nickmyers3065]

Most Hated lol sigh....smh these zoomers

[@dreamerfrostbite2066]

@@nickmyers3065 ok Boomer

[@nickmyers3065]

@@dreamerfrostbite2066 dude the ok boomer girl is closer to my generation then most zoomers. Lol

[@shis1988]

@@nickmyers3065 I know for a fact Senzawa is a millenial.

[@nickmyers3065]

@@shis1988 senzawa the animator? Who are you talking about lol ad what does that have to do with vaush or Neekolul lol?

[@shis1988]

I make fun of non-voters* *that can vote but refuse to. Disenfranchised voters are unrelated to people like this guy.

[@dblock20]

Agreed

[@jasper9291]

Viosh: ‘If you don’t vote for Biden you’re a Nazi.’ Biden: *snifs a small girls hair* ‘My puppet is operating correctly.’ Xi Jinping: ‘My puppet is operating correctly.’

[@acetrainer5564]

There is NOTHING worse that someone who constantly interrupts others while complaining about being interrupted. Hang up as soon as that happens, please. It's so damn irritating.

[@ryanhodgetts]

This video (and others) are a large reason why (years ago) I turned from a Jimmy Dore “leftist” to a proud socialist who’s pragmatic towards actual change in the Democratic Party. Sometimes people (me) have to live life being pretty cringe to understanding what’s actually real and honest.

[@emdivine]

@@Ass_of_Amalek TRY BEING SUSPICIOUS OF PEOPLE WHO TRY TO CONVINCE YOU! ;) just basic scepticism really, if nothing else "trust but verify" is a decent policy

[@MrDougfunny7]

Pragmatic to the Democratic Party. Aka privileged enough to uphold the status quo.

[@Liliputian07]

@@MrDougfunny7 i'm convinced that you people genuinely don't understand the arguments. like, they're so simple and self-evident that a reasonable leftist can't disagree. either you don't get it or you're a stealth rightoid

[@MrDougfunny7]

@@Liliputian07 ‘everyone who disagrees with me is a right winger.’ Man it must be easy to have that view

[@donjuan2371]

@@MrDougfunny7 sometimes upholding the status quo is the best option you’ve got.

[@SanguineThor]

Vaush ended this talk with a poignant, biting, exact reason as to why he wanted to vote biden, right around 1 hour. And then dude ignores it and says "the democrat party wont move left". It's like talking to a brick wall.

[@TheInflicted]

59:53

[@ibringit987]

He really thought Vaush asking him shit to clarify his position so they could go point by point was a tactic Vaush was trying to deploy....amazing I'm really grateful I missed the BOB Arc because I can't fathom how doomer I'd be having to sit through this shit *during* the election cycle. Edit; I will say as well that it always blows my mind that these people will make their argument based on speed and how we don't have the time to try and radicalise people through the democratic party but then start to advocate for stuff like A. Let a fascist win the presidency B. Vote third party

[@shis1988]

B is still A. Otherwise spot on.

[@ibringit987]

@@shis1988 True. I just framed it that way because of their framing of you can vote third party and make that more viable over time without letting fascists win somehow

[@FelisImpurrator]

Ah yes, the sneaky debate tactic of asking questions and giving answers. Where have I heard that one recently... [checks] Ah yes. Republicans vote unanimously to withdraw from the presidential debate commission on the grounds that the debates are rigged, because they get asked things and have to answer them.

[@FelisImpurrator]

"I apologize for SocialistMMA. He is an idiot. We have purposely trained him wrong, as a joke." Always great to see a guy lose to himself in a debate in real time.

[@theunholinesswithin70]

The main problem was that the right-wing created the misconception about Bernie that he wanted to change the entire economy into socialism, and none of his supporters knew to question the audience of various right-wing pundits who were pushing that misconception (strawman). Another problem was the right-wing's common selfish position that they shouldn't have to pay for other people's way.

[@FelisImpurrator]

It's funny when you actually know the facts, too - because if you learn the data, you find out that the right's approach always means they have to pay more for other people's benefit than the left's approach will ever cost them personally. I always like to put it this way. If all you care about is enriching yourself, you'd be stupid not to be in favor of social welfare, infrastructure, and wealth redistribution. If you're rich, everything past the first few hundred million won't make a shred of difference - you won't even notice it's gone, at least not based on quality of life. If you're not rich, being against progressive policy is paying people more to make life worse for you - which would make you not just selfish, but gullible. Socialism is the smart way to be selfish, and it always has been. It's also the smart way to be selfless, come to think of it. Funny how that works out, but hey. Can't argue with results.

[@theunholinesswithin70]

@@FelisImpurrator My perspective is that most Americans will get a larger salary if college is made "free", which would mean those many more Americans will *spend a lot more*, which therefore means that increase in economic stimulation. Something which should benefit the entire country-Mom and pop shops and better quality products. No, the conservatives are only about their respective wealthy elites and god, and want the unsuccessful to struggle and suffer.

[@mrman991]

"they shouldn't have to pay for other people's way" they shouldn't have to pay for other anything tbh It's always how smart people are when they avoid tax or underpay staff etc

[@theunholinesswithin70]

@@mrman991 College and healthcare both need to be made affordable then. Taxes are necessary in order for a civilization under capitalism to function properly. Disagree? Ok, maybe everybody should be billed for law enforcement, the military, and the infrastructure. Don't like that? Go live in another fuckin country then.

[@terrystevens3998]

@@theunholinesswithin70 if we educated every American that wanted it and as far as we could in their lifetime we wouldn’t be worried about if a mom and pop store was selling us shit or if it came from Amazon or whatever system of good delivery we would have at that point, the possibilities are endless and not even imaginable, we could fly past all these arguments and worrying about what job goes to who, we should educate the fuck out of our kids!! As far as they can go!! Do you know how many possible Einstein’s we have lost to them ending up working a shit job and getting hooked on heroine in the past 60 years?? The potential we have let be smothered by an upper class that doesn’t want to have to compete with a ton of smart competitors We passed up being the big brained capitol of the world and decided to let private college become a country club of privileged kids and our population to become Trump voters

[@bda34]

SMMA's argument in summary: "If at first you don't succeed, become a nihilist."

[@agilagilsen8714]

Bruh, this dude needs to chill. He speaks as if he was a Karen who was just told her expired 0.25cent coupon was expired and she can't have the discount on single wallmart bagel. Edit. I didn't finish this, SocialistMMA has absolutely no points and his entire personality seems to be based around him sounding angry and not letting anyone else speak all while being incapable of listening or using his brain.

[@2wyzegaming97]

I’m surprised he didn’t challenge vaush to a physical fight after this ffs

[@calmkat9032]

I remember when this happened and Vaush was so embarassed for the guy he didn't make this a segment, even though it was AMAZIN content. Guess time heals all wounds lol

[@TheGreatGario]

since then he's had people that are even worse than SMMA, so it's not surprising hell, a week after this he had niko house on, which made SMMA look like sam seder in comparison (vaush didn't post that one, either, though Niko House did if you want to watch *that* madness)

[@bryanweimer7381]

I'd only heard legends of this debate. I can already tell it's gonna be a shit show.

[@TheBasedGreeg]

It’s truly horrific lmao

[@bryanweimer7381]

@@TheBasedGreeg it truely was

[@BARRACULA94]

It's second only to the NikoHouse debate, in how embarrassing it is.

[@Mike-zx6sl]

Ugh I remember watching this live. It's so hard to watch again, SMMA acted like a complete maniac and in hindsight the entire Bernie or Bust movement is somehow even dumber. He literally said "why should I give up my leverage?" YOU DON'T HAVE ANY LEVERAGE. The Democrat party doesn't care because there aren't enough leftists to wager votes.

[@WanderingIdiot81]

Might as well stay home on election night then 🤷‍♂️

[@SaraphDarklaw]

This was about the time I found Vaush. And thank god I did. I was definitely on the stupid left at that point. P.S. I forgot how gawd awful his old background was.

[@snuzzlebumble]

I knew vaush before that but I was still part of the dumb dumb let for a bit before having my mind changed.

[@TonyPajama]

Oh hey me too, I literally just posted a comment about it right before I saw yours. Glad we are both here now!

[@iz2333]

Well, not everyone can be born on the big brain left like me. I've never had a wrong take in my life. Not even once. Seriously. Not a single time. Never ever. Just too correct all the time.

[@Ar1AnX1x]

having a strategy to win and a clear end goal in politics is really important and it's a big problem in the Left so many people don't know how to win and what they should fight towards

[@orchidrose1410]

“Protection of abortion rights”😂 that one didn’t age well!! This guy was exhausting! Seriously, vaush made his point so clear a blind man could see through it, and he still didn’t get it!!

[@j0j0dartiste21]

Nothing that guy said aged well at all

[@Blastermaster1942]

Goddamn. Bernie or Busters were one of the worst things about 2019-2020, and they’re gonna come back. I feel my life slipping away just thinking about it

[@chococat3972]

Wait they’re coming back?!?😧 When?

[@Blastermaster1942]

@@chococat3972 It won’t be Bernie, but when the next Prez election comes along a-holes are gonna try to convince reasonable people that voting for a Democrat and not engaging in electoral accelerationism is the same as personally churning the grinder that turns brown kids into a fine paste. They’ll look at the Trumps of tomorrow doing and promising fascist actions and say “we need more of this to galvanize the Left!” until we’re all dead in a mass grave

[@terrystevens3998]

@@chococat3972 midterms, they never learn, punishing the left for not being more left by letting the right have power, not realizing that the current GOP fully intends on never letting the dems back into power if they win in midterms. It’s do or die at this point and they still didn’t learn anything from 2016

[@nickmyers3065]

My main way to deal with these kinds of people is to ask them what they believe my argument was. Usually, they admit they don't remember or don't know. They have ranted for so long, they don't know what my point was or could be.

[@imjustsaying4165]

This guy came to argue instead of debate and he didn’t learn anything. Vaush gave his position and provided solutions and repeated we would move voters to the left and the guy still didn’t get it.

[@dildonius]

He really exudes the energy of someone who is so incredibly sure that he's the smartest person in the room, yet almost always is the biggest moron.

[@johngr1747]

CapitalistBadminton: Are you gonna let me talk!? Also CapitalistBadminton a few minutes later: *immediatelly interrupts Vaush*

[@JebeckyGranjola]

I think it's perception. Everyone says that. I think neither of them let the other get through more than one sentence. So this guy just talked the entire time, and then whenever Vaush got the chance he'd have to give a 5 min monologue to get all his points in.

[@GibusWearingMann]

I just realized that bernie or busters were treating the 2020 election as though Donald Trump was just straight up not running. Like it was "Joe Biden vs Literally Nobody". That is an absurd degree of ideological isolation.

[@lallig8860]

someone typed "Kulinski talking points" in chat & i lost it

[@Ed-ds4qg]

Oop Vaush forgot to feed the editors again

[@markd.s.8625]

well he did have part of a earlobe frozen off surgically it's bound to happen

[@InfernoBlade64]

The editors finally uploaded this 😀

[@alig2472]

Hahahaha holy shit I forgot these people unironically use the phrase "vote shaming"

[@Revan058]

Some people do need to be shamed.

[@TheBasedGreeg]

Holy shit, I love this debate, I’m so happy it’s finally on one of Vaush’s channels rather than watching it on that 3rd party channel. Hell yeah. Now you just need to get that short, stupid ass “debate,” he had with Niko House on here too haha

[@S..P..]

My ears got destroyed in this debate.

[@alecatnight1540]

Socialist mma guy sounds like charlie browns parents for 90% of the video

[@HidariSaikoune]

It's a shame to see a lot of people's politics are based on cynicism and bitterness towards a system that has failed them rather than principles and trying to actually get some change done, even if only so much can be done. Criticize the establishment all you want but keep some realistic goals in mind.

[@terrystevens3998]

It’s weird to see word for word how Jimmy Dores shitty takes were like a cancer to the left. A few of the lines this guy used were straight off of his dialect tree, they really were convinced that if you don’t vote dems are going to come offer you more leftist shit, that’s not how that works at all

[@factsmachine9905]

I knew this was ugly when after 17 minutes of heated discussion vaush says he’s only trying to frame the discussion

[@dildonius]

There was no discussion.

[@Ar1AnX1x]

this doesn't work like that when you're up against that would vote for Conservatives and they don't even expect anything serious at all Trump promised so many things and delivered literally none of the big promises he gave to people on campaign and they still would vote for him and we have people here that won't vote because Biden hasn't moved enough to Bernie in politics whatever you do must lead to good results and not voting doesn't lead to anything good, this isn't how you push politicians to do what you want them to do.

[@Fusseliko]

Even if you don't believe electoralism helps people actually achieve anything, atleast take the fucking hour out of your day once every few years to try to make sure that the people that want to murder transpeople or enslave minorities don't get more power, fuck. It really isn't the time commitment people make it out to be, it's usually pretty easy to determine who would cause less harm.

[@shis1988]

Not voting is code for not having any important opinion regarding where a country should go*. *unless you can't vote due to stuff like domestic violence and Republican suppression.

[@TheAmericanAmerican]

At the end Vaush lays out his master plan at the end clearly and yet this guy STILL doesn't get it!!! Dear non-existent God!!!

[@OrphanOfEarth]

That last rant that sums up Vaushs entire argument perfectly- followed up with "But I don't see how you're going to pull Joe Biden to the left" I just.. My brain is in pain man. So frustrated it's giving me a headache.

[@ababblingbrooke3340]

Just... This. I wanted to freaking scream. This guy was *almost* there! He almost had it! But he just has this *one* doomer brain cell that's infecting the rest of his logic!

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

It's wild for the dude to be a socialist and not even acknowledge the fact that most Americans just suck and don't vote for their interests

[@WanderingIdiot81]

I would have taken 4 more years of Trump over 8 years of Biden/Harris

[@FLAMEKING2341]

Vaush bodying people is fuckin based. Really fuckin sad to see my man just yelling and not listening hate these types of debaters

[@bearcudlybear]

There's a deeper convo about black reparations that could be had here if this guy was not so psycho. I do agree with vaush about the broader argument regarding the DNC being an organization predisposed to profit increase vs quality of life increase but nonetheless, Bernie did suffer from a media black out that produced a negative reaction against him

[@ghani666]

Facts, but unfortunately Bernie’s loss (both times) really did just come down to votes. You had millions of people supporting him, packed arenas and rallies…and then barely any of them voted. Media blackout or no, if every person who supported Sanders had shown up to vote for Sanders, he probably would have won. But they didn’t, so he didn’t. Progressives are my people, I love them dearly, but we are a seriously dysfunctional bunch, and the political consequences of our ineptitude are growing more dire by the day.

[@sangreiti]

This wasn’t even fun. I can’t believe how embarrassing that was.

[@TheOpalHammer]

I don't mean to blow the man too hard, but it was actually IMPRESSIVE how voosh managed to scrap the first part of the conversation and re-rail him for a while where they could speak coherently.

[@00videovideo]

I hate people that just yell about the problems but doesn’t offer any viable solutions

[@eelvis1674]

The idea that a huge amount of Obamas popularity doesnt come from being sandwiched between 2 of the worst presidents ever is ridiculous

[@flaretheestargirl1122]

Finally, this shitshow is officially canonic.

[@KodahSmith]

Given the fact that the comments in this video have people agreeing with SocialistMMA I can tell that Vaush's 2024 arguments with chat are gonna be actually unhinged Guys Bernie or Bust is cringe

[@nitzky8936]

I remember watching this in real time, and MMA guy gave me an impression of someone who thinks entirely in memes, platitudes, and Jimmy Dore talking points, and doesn't even think through any of them, so when pressed he's just yelling them all at once, and has a real problem realizing just saying it is "not an argument". in other words, his inability to speak is closely linked to his inability to think.

[@matthewwolfe9417]

This guy sounds like he’s super egotistical. It’s okay to admit you don’t know

[@TonyPajama]

My first vaush debate! This is the one that pulled me out of the Bernie or bust jimmy dore type crowd on Twitter when I was a baby leftist. Thank god for this debate or you guys might have been arguing with me about AOC and vaccine mandates or some shit

[@WhtMike2006]

Vaush did the same for me.

[@kraio-sfu]

I’m glad that you chose the lesser of two evils between jimmy dore and voosh

[@terrystevens3998]

I get my “real leftist” takes from Dore on fox, the more left I am the less I vote for the “left wing” party. - real idiots that watch Dore probably

[@SanguineThor]

"Just let trump win so the DNC will actually have a progressive candidate" so... pendulum theory? Instead of just the ratcheting system that it actually is.

[@Asterothe91]

this one was rough. he clearly got caught and ran from questions pivotal to his point by moving the goal posts.

[@Eunacis]

He doesn't wanna debate, he just wants to vent.

[@NeoRipshaft]

oooOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooo this one used to be unlisted, along with the other debate with his similarly deranged friend Niko House... but now we've got it as a segment yay! 😁

[@stoneman472]

When you're EXTREMELY dedicated to your dialogue tree.

[@legionofpie]

I feel like MMA doesn't actually want to try to make solutions, they just want to be mad. Vaush is trying to talk about ways we can at least push in the right direction and MMA is just advocating dropping out of the system. You can't fix any system or community from the outside by telling at it, genius, you need to get in there and do actual work. this is really validating because my ex friend used to talk over me with rambling bullshit then accuse me of not letting them talk.

[@redfin382]

I hate people who think not voting makes a difference. So do you just wait until other people fix all your problems in your life?

[@willdenham]

I'm just shocked at the political naivity of the B or busters everytime I hear them. Did they really think he would get elected step in the door and boom, medicare for all was going to happen by February.

[@thesocialistguy59]

I see Mike from PA isn’t the meme king after all

[@slime8177]

Ah yes the towering intellect of SocialistMMA

[@lonelyone69]

How have I missed this Vaush lore holy shit

[@Liquid_Smoke]

I remember listening to this while playing Saints Row IV. At some point I stopped playing and just stared at my phone in disbelief.

[@stabbymcpokey5901]

Great game

[@atticmusicgggg]

The online left now is like "if you disagree with me on 1 issue you are a sellout".

[@jamesyount2423]

Vaush can't even get this guy to acknowledge a basic position so that he can start the conversation. I couldn't anymore after 26 minutes.

[@hellfirdragon17]

This guy has gotten so much worse on twitter since talking to Vaush.

[@thefailuregamer1438]

Literally just a Jimmy Dore clone

[@melissazadrozny1279]

You helped get me out of the Bernie or Bust mindset, thank you

[@sandshark2]

It amazes me how… capitalist these kinds of people are. Like really: When it comes to voting they treat votes the same way a “capitalist believer” believes in the consumer’s ability to buy. If you keep your money from the business, they will cater to you. But in politics, if you keep your vote away from the party, they simply turn to a different demographic and policy for other votes. That is why the ratcheting system exists, and its amazing how ironic it is that these people use capitalist logic when deciding how to fix the problems of capitalism.

[@sandshark2]

And just like in capitalism, the only way to influence a company is by investing as much money as possible in it to get stocks, own shares, and eventually buy it out. For a political party, you must force them to listen to us by becoming the majority demographic of their voter base. Its a political investment strategy, and by making the voterbase of the dems socialists/left-leaners, the party will cater BECAUSE we support them, and influence them. But these shits dont understand there is a level of trust that is required to unite with people, so they only abstain

[@complimentbotd7232]

Lmao truuuue socialist mma is literally saying "let the free market decide" but with votes

[@ashfox7498]

Hey whatever editor is running this channel, more throwback content please

[@thatsinteresting3415]

28:14 He has been trying his best to avoid directly criticizing Trump as much as Biden, and slipped up, when he said yeah. Jimmy Dore types like this wonder say that Trump is good, they will even say he is bad. But they will always emphasize that Biden is the worst choice possible and focus all critiques on Biden alone.

[@shinystarmiestudios4179]

That's because according to them Joe Biden is a Neo Nazi who's worse than Hitler.

[@mariuslecter289]

Wish i had Vaush back then to have cogent arguments against people like this. I knew they were wrong but couldn't articulate why or have relevant data.

[@godocs11]

Vaush about popped a vein in his forehead at the end with this guy's obstinacy.

[@jasonfrancis9262]

Genuinely the fact that the almost the only policy and always the first policy this guy brings up is legal weed is like really funny. It makes it seem like he's just that stoner friend you had in uni who won't vote for anyone unless it means they get legal weed.

[@Tacosgalore24]

It's probably the single easiest thing to accomplish, and as far as executive orders go, for what could get done in this political climate, it's probably one of the biggest impacts we could hope to get in the short and long term. And I feel like he harped more on Medicare for all more than the weed thing, but 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@dogeatdog6157]

Or as a black man he directly has felt the damage drug policies can have on a community... but sure, the stoner thing you said.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

Or he wants to remove one of the easiest tools that the police have to harass and imprison the poor with.... Also he brings up M4A first almost every time

[@Revan058]

@@Tacosgalore24 See, that's the thing. It can not be decriminalized by EO. You can reshedual drugs...unless that drug was shedualed by an act of Congress. Which weed *was*. To deschedule it now, it must also be done by an act of Congress. People just. Fucking ignore this fact and it's infuriating. He literally doesn't have the power to do this.

[@ramblingtakes]

I absolutely understand where Bernie or busters are coming from. It's like when you have a shit referee in sports, you just want to walk away from the match at a certain point. The problem is that when you do walk away the other team wins and in this case the other team is fascism.

[@DoctorJellicle]

A classic. Love this one

[@thinkbeyond3457]

Oh so that's how you interview for a spot on the Dore show. 🤣

[@bda34]

Goddamn, this guy just shadowboxed his way through the entire argument.

[@acetrainer5564]

Boy I love when someone tries to change the subject, and when you don't follow them they accuse you of changing the subject.

[@shawnsicle]

Lmao this guy fell apart the moment the “debate” started

[@richardarriaga6271]

Has this Socialist MMA guy gone right-wing yet?

[@waynetables6414]

you're a democrat, so you literally vote for a corporate right wing party that oversees endless war. You're not a socialist, you are a liberal democrat cosplaying radical

[@Jay-qu2bc]

@@waynetables6414Leftists don’t contribute to the system at all, aside from crying on twitter

[@Eunacis]

He's a campist.

[@Dr_Johnz]

"Mom can we have Mike from PA?" "We have Mike from PA at home." *Mike from PA at home:*

[@abstractdaddy1384]

Only a couple minutes in you can tell this guy has no ability to have a productive debate.

[@robjob34]

This guy is left wing Jesse Lee Peterson

[@pogolaugh]

SocialistMMA was arguing a huge monte Bailey and that’s why he wouldn’t let Vaush talk for so long. He used the fact that Biden has done bad things in the past and will not do enough to defend his point that we shouldn’t vote for the lesser evil. It’s an indefensible position and that’s why he defaults to arguing that Biden bad when defending his position we shouldn’t vote for him.

[@garth2356]

30:30 --> Vaush goes his mid-debate rant (good stuff)

[@Rex-hx5fz]

Oldie but a goodie

[@codisha2970]

This is literally the Patrick meme.

[@Just_Ty465]

haven’t finished yet, got to 21:40 where they did the test convo and jesus i wish it was just this for rest of the vid honestly

[@Just_Ty465]

22:29 god dammit

[@nathanbyrne9457]

Kinda pathetic to hear people say they wouldn't vote shame people. Steph you should. Social shaming is the most powerful thing individuals can do to sway votes. We've MLA elections coming up and I simply bully SDLP voters. Make them feel weak and stupid and others get the message

[@terrystevens3998]

don’t shame me for not helping to stop the fascist GOP from driving a steak through the heart of the very democracy we need to ever put forth any left wing idea ever again, Biden is old therefore let’s let fascists lock us out of power forever

[@skeletorpfunk6342]

I think its going to be really difficult to convince swing voters to want to vote for Biden over whichever republican candidate in 2024 with how little he’s done so far

[@ScarletAquaCrimson15]

This was like trying to debate a toddler. This man was so impatient both in talking to Vaush and in his politics. If he can't have weed legalized and medicare for all right NOW then there's no point.

[@colingundel8779]

Why is it that everyone is unable to answer a very easy yes or no question.