HEMA | Keith Farrell vs James MacGilp | Edgebana 2016 Open Longsword

[@Valor06]

The slow motion and hit marker replays should be done in ALL professional fencing videos. This is great.

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Couldn't agree more!

[@thomascharky7031]

This is the best style of editing these fights I've seen yet. Quick, to the point, clear. I hope you set precedent out there editor

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thank you for the compliment. Actually, I've seen some similar examples already. ;)

[@KalteGeist]

Ye gads, I really love the score highlighting. Everyone should do it this way.

[@DarylSebastianGonzagaJr]

Slow motion replay of the scores! Nice! Really enjoyed that 8:40

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

It's always nice to review a beautifully executed technique in slow motion! :)

[@MaidenheartProductions]

Nice exchange but that was most definately a flat strike.

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

After reviewing the strike I can say that there was an attempt to strike with the false edge after winding action, the strike (based on the position of the guard) was delivered at around 30 degree angle and from what I can see it was because the winding action wasn't performed as planned because the swords got out of bind quicker than Keith expected, hence he couldn't perform the full rotation. That's just a theory, as other factors could influence poor edge alignment in particular scenario. I'm pleased that we can combine entertainment and education in these kind of reviews, thank you for your comment, Maidenheart!

[@NotEvenDeathCanSaveU]

yet the slowmotion has to be recorded with a camera that gets at least 300 fps.. the more the better.. this slowmotion footage used is trash

[@nicopetri3533]

@@NotEvenDeathCanSaveU you don't need 300 fps. Such an overkill. 240 fps is still more than enough. Imo even 120 fps is enough. Here it looks like 30 fps stretched to 120 fps. With 120 fps from the camera you can slow down by the faktor of 4. Yes HEMA is fast and all, but you don't need more. Anything more than 240 fps (if you want to watch the slow motion in 60 fps) is just useless and decadent. And no the more the better is not true. First the camera starts cropping and the footage gets less and less detailed, because of the short aperture time. And the files start to get bigger and bigger for less and less time. What is as important as the fps number is the right shutter speed. Here it looks like the shutter speed was very low, so the swords "vanish". But I don't really care, because I was able to see what happened in the fight and the fights were beautiful.

[@aqg7vy]

Time to rest and meditate on what I've learned.

[@frenchgalloglass]

No ! Time to join your local HEMA club ;)

[@tatuira93]

I wish we had one :(

[@frenchgalloglass]

there is always one ;) Just try and find it

[@RandomAllen]

The way this tournament is presented is the best I've seen for HEMA. Really easy to follow what's going on! Stuff like Combat Con videos and even sparing videos are really hard to follow because they never show slow motion footage so that the audience can see what happened clearly. With this, there's slow motion after every pass, the cut target is highlighted and there's a sound. So much easier to watch 😊 kudos guys!

[@immortaliserwow]

This needs to be take more seriously. Needs to be an Olympic sport. get the propper gear - a crisp speed camera for example.Get more ppl to train and do it professionally so we can see good form and extraordinary competitors. It needs to be invested into

[@DaaaahWhoosh]

Good luck with that, as cool as longsword would be at the Olympics (much cooler than fencing) it still costs more and is less established. Who's going to invest into HEMA when it already takes $500 just to get the gear for yourself?

[@username-kr2fz]

youre lucky with 500, over here its a good 2k if you want everything.

[@joshuajames5309]

Dovahkiin Dragonshout well it never was exactly a poor mans sport lol

[@HyperGnome]

To be fair there neds to be way more practicians if you want it to go anywhere, right now we're quite few really.

[@RandomAllen]

Dovahkiin Dragonshout While I agree that HEMA needs to be taken more seriously, alongside more high speed cameras for help with judging is a plus and more higher level competitions, I don't know if it should be become an Olympic sport purely because of the route sport fencing took. Part of the charm to HEMA I feel is that these are techiniques that would actually be effective if you had to fight in a real sword fight. And while I know many of us won't need to use those skills for real... hopefully 😅, I still don't want to see HEMA lose it's teeth and become so far abstracted that we have automatic scoring, super light Longswords, quick flick cuts and people only caring about who gets the first touch . I would rather it be respected but still keep it's practicality, because if it doesn't, we really wouldn't be training in HEMA would we? Tournament HEMA is already a somewhat diluted form, if it went to the Olympics the "improvements" they may enforce for "fairness", may just make HEMA into Kendo or sport fencing with Longswords.

[@b19931228]

Nice match! Some of the clean hit from Keith is a bit unexpected. Great deal of skill involved none the less. Appreciated the hit markers and slow-mo. It helps a lot.

[@vidensodoacer]

I really appreciate the replay and editing quality. I also appreciate the use of the Morrorwind OST and level up music.

[@korzalm]

Great fight and editing. It's good to see new fighters are coming with the techniques.

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thank you for kind words, Sam, glad you enjoyed it! :)

[@MonsterTeegs]

7:30 oh god that would've been a bloody end to a duel

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Yup... ;)

[@Phoenix6942-7]

​@ringadingding7667, they both stabbed each other in the throat. What do you mean?

[@oolooo]

1:44 Brilliant .The way he used the sound of his shoes on the ground and the movement to distract him .

[@funnysecksnumber6998]

back of the head out of target area? did we start doing what the olympians did?

[@Antondepadua]

Best fight video i've seen. subbed! hopefully you come up with more!

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thank you for kind words, Link. I do plan to do more videos like this one, HEMA is one of my greatest passions. ;)

[@crazyscotsman9327]

Anyone else notice James MacGlip always does these short steps before actually attacking?

[@felipebarreto1844]

He is at na enormous size disadvantage. He is 1,65m tal, and his oponente, I'm guessing, must be 1,90 or something. The short steps before engaging are his way of making sure that he is within his attacking range before committing. Without those short steps, his attacks could be out-of-range while his opponent's riposte would not, considering the reach advantage.

[@TheUltimateWriterNZ]

@@felipebarreto1844 James MacGlip is the tall one.

[@JessePatrick-zc8ng]

So that dude got a warning for saluting blues hit. Because it "influenced" the judges? That's odd.

[@berkayustem6344]

It doesn't make sense to me. Can somebody explain?

[@kvacksilver5276]

Yeah that's odd. It might give a judge a bias, but it is still such a minor thing considering that the exchanges happen right in front of them.

[@ahmedharris7148]

I hope this becomes an olympic sport

[@jklm011]

What happened in that first yellow marker?

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Keith admitted he was hit.

[@Angelimir]

And that's a warning for influencing the judges? Wow... I don't think that's a good principle. HEMA should continue to support chivalrous (or at least fair play) conduct, and fencers admitting to be hit is definitely a part of that behaviour. In high level many tournaments I have seen fencers vetoing even their winning points (one example off the top of my head is Anders Linnard from 2015 Swordfish final) or admitting a touchm and their objections were generally accepted by the judges and seen as good sportsmanship by the spectators. I think this is the good principle and should be endorsed, not repressed...

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

I understand your point, but it depends on the competition rules - those need to be respected as well. Of course, none of the rules come out thin air, this in particular, as far as I know, was created to eliminate the debates between participants and gudges in case participant has a different view on the score (because as you understand both being "chivalrous" / "giving the point away" and on the contrary "asking for the point" is unfortunatelly falling in the same category of doubting the judge decision, which is somewhat disrispectful if you think about it).

[@Angelimir]

Well, "asking for the point" is not exactly sportmanlike conduct, and I didn't argue for that, of course :) But I do think that fencers should be able to acknowledge hits received, or deny points for actions that they consider not to be executed well (or as intended). I think this stems from the fact that HEMA is not only a sportive exercise, but also a martial art, with some tendencies to recreate the context of historical fencing - that is, chivalric ideals. I understand, though, that this aspect is pursued to a different extent among different clubs (mine has a rather chivalric general approach, this may give me some bias :)) To be able to _ask_ for points (which actually does exist in many sports, even in olympic fencing, recently, as contesting the jury decision and asking for a video review) is a completely different question, which, I think, may only come into discussion after the general rules of HEMA has been well solidified. However we are far from it now. HEMA* is a fairly new sport and the multitude of parallel rulesets (basically that many rulesets as many competitions there are) show that it really hasn't solidified yet, and while it doesn't, I think gentlemanly conduct, such as this, should not be penalized in any way. Besides, the fencer saluted to his _opponent_, giving him credit for the hit he landed, and not to the judges, therefore I really don't think he had the judges in mind, in any way, it was a simple gesture that is frequently done during training spars. *(and we are talking about only the longsword here, which is basically to say that Eastern Martial Arts _is_ kung-fu, but it's beside the point :D)

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

I once again want to say that I appreciate the desire for chivalrous duels, but it's necessary to let the judges decide who gets the point, on particular competition influencing them was not appropriate in any way (saluting opponent with the obvious intention to let everyone know that he got the point gives you a warning and contesting the jury results in a ban, as far as I remember). As you say, some rules are more strict than others, one must appreciate it when signin up for the event. Everyone who signed up knew the rules, that's important to remember.

[@knight1506]

despite his height disadvantage he is extremely nimble and accurate. how tall is keith?

[@joepcoumans247]

what are the flag signals based on?

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Each of the four judges use flag to show how many points he or she thinks each participant (blue/red) got in exchange. The final result is an "average" of the four scores.

[@joepcoumans247]

ViciouSExorcisT aah Oké thank you! That helps a lot!

[@MiskyWilkshake]

You can read up about the scoring and the signalling here: static1.squarespace.com/static/53cd2bbde4b0d4e3bfa9e6ff/t/577bf6e29de4bbe861966ae8/1467741922439/Longpoint+Rules+v.2016.1.0.pdf

[@thuddpucker11]

potentially a new Olympic sport.

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Time will tell! ;)

[@RandomAllen]

darryl goodman While I think that HEMA needs to be taken more seriously, I don't know if it should be become an Olympic sport purely because of the route sport fencing took. Part of the charm to HEMA I feel is that these are techiniques that would actually be effective if you had to use them in a real sword fight.And while I know many of us won't need to use those skills for real... hopefully 😅, I still don't want to see HEMA lose it's teeth and become so far abstracted that we have automatic scoring, super light Longswords, quick flick cuts and people only caring about who gets the first touch . I would rather it be respected but still keep it's practicality, because if it doesn't, we really wouldn't be training in HEMA would we? Tournament HEMA is already a somewhat diluted form, if it went to the Olympics the "improvements" they may enforce for "fairness", may just make HEMA into Kendo or sport fencing with Longswords.

[@DEATH14269]

Yeah we need this and a shooting competition aswell v.v Think about it we should not only embrace the physical abilities in Olympics but also reflec and mental abilities in different genres that we actually use in life. We would see whole new levels and types of professionals.

[@Uncephalized]

Really nice job editing this video, and also with the speed/efficiency of the judging! How does your semaphore system work?

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thanks, Uncephalized! The judges did a great work indeed, the warning system works in such a way that every 2 warnings to participant yield opponent a point.

[@MiskyWilkshake]

You can read up on it in detail (at least, this applies to longpoint competitions) here: static1.squarespace.com/static/53cd2bbde4b0d4e3bfa9e6ff/t/577bf6e29de4bbe861966ae8/1467741922439/Longpoint+Rules+v.2016.1.0.pdf

[@DMSBrian24]

Can anyone explain the warning? Did red do anything off camera?

[@aussienick4520]

There's another comment in here that says red 'saluted' blue's hit. If you look at the footage again you can see that Farrell raised his sword in front of him and tipped it forward slightly. This was before the judges had actually given a result. I'm guessing it's against the rules because it could influence the judges before they give a result, even if it's just subconcious.

[@Judicial78]

5:23 Wow that scheidelhau though... if that was a real sharps fight that slice afterwards would have never occurred because James would be slumped to the ground dead lol

[@failorrise7093]

The staff was incriedible. Great job ref and judges.

[@Splatpope]

is that oblivion fight music

[@LancetFencing]

Where can I read the rules for this Sport?

[@Fishhunter2014]

These guys are wicked good!

[@darththork99]

I like the Morrowind music playing in the background.

[@dovahboy1704]

I like how you put music from Morrowind in the end

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thanks, it just fitted so well... ;)

[@Balgore8]

Its interesting in this fight we saw a strike to the back of the head and arm pit, things you'd think you'd never see. Go full gear coverage or get rekt I guess. This also demonstrates that a sword fight would basically last 3 seconds (not longer like movies would have you think). Even at high end skill levels the fight is over really quickly and mortal blows are very easy to both give and receive.

[@wono30]

Aaayyy 500 subs! Congratz Exo! =D

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Thanks, Wono! :) It was a long and memorable journey.

[@miguelhenriques7924]

Loved the editing

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

It was a very well-organised events with numerous memorable bouts. Needless to say, I enjoyed the way it concluded too. :)

[@olivenuttall5632]

Beautiful match

[@LaughingMan44]

Blue guy is that freak that always chose Voldo in Soul Caliber.

[@__-fi6xg]

Longswords are in dire need of some better handprotection. I wonder how long a duell would last without hand hits. Nonetheless, im in love with Hema, and im gonna visit the club in my neighbortown and join the club, if my rusty body can keep up. I didnt do any kind of sports besides archery for over 10 years.

[@OhitsONnow]

Im just here thinking a lot of the time...wouldn't alot of these strikes like end up having both combatants kill each others? o.O or is that just because of the competition rules

[@jordisanahujagimenez1144]

That's what would happen indeed. There are too main schools followed by Longsword swordsmans. The first one would be the Liechtenauer one, which focus on a more practical and realistic style of figthing where you attack while trying to defend yourself from any possible counterattack. This styles focus specially in thrusting with your sword as is the fastest and more secure way to reach the opponent. The other one would be Meyer, who appeared long time after Lichtenauer, after HEMA was more like a sport and not like a martial art. I believe this is what the competitors in this video practise because they focus on a more impractical way of fighting. They only focus on uberhaus (upper cut), zwerchhaus and schielhaus (master moves) which could be easily countered by a direct thrust (as they unprotect a lot before throwing the cut). They don't do that because it doesn't look as great as a flowery cut. This is an example of a martial art made a sport, where defeating your opponent is more important that protecting yourself.

[@OhitsONnow]

Oooh I see, thanks for the run down man

[@prospero768]

I guess that must be the reason why they never once adopted a guard recognisable from Meyer?

[@MisdirectedSasha]

The main thing is that they're standing a bit too close together. They both look like tall guys with lots of reach, and they often stand close enough to strike each other without taking a step. Fighting at this distance involves twitch reflexes more than technique and decision-making, and often means the fencers don't have time to execute their strikes properly. They also seem to not want to bind, which isn't helping. Plus they're using a rule set that doesn't really punish doubles.

[@edgebanatournament8863]

This is awesome :D nice one. :)

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

It's the least I can do. ;)

[@kreiger]

Why does James sweep his left back?

[@TheCaptainsAntics]

Looks like he always switches stance when he engages. As far as I can tell it lets him create a short distance to avoid blows and allows him to jump off that foot quicker for a counter attack. As far as I can tell though it leaves him uneven crossing his footing that often. But this is just speculation.

[@frenchgalloglass]

Why did red fencer get a yellow card ?

[@Phoenix6942-7]

Influencing judges.

[@alexanderw6310]

Aren't the swords a little light???

[@hallowedfool]

Alexander Wapinski Nope, federschwerts (the type of swords being used in this) are actually a few hundred grams heavier, on average, than a normal longsword

[@yohaneswilliam1995]

wish i could learn HEMA but that's just not happening

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Never say never, William.

[@yohaneswilliam1995]

ViciouSExorcisT seriously that will never happen because there is no such hema gym (i dunno what's the correct term) in my place, or in my province, or in my country :)

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Have you tried this? www.hemaalliance.com/club-finders/

[@yohaneswilliam1995]

I live in Indonesia, there is one actually showed by that website but it's 1200 km away from me :)) Thanks for the help though, really appreciate it

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

No problem. Well, while you are there you an practice pencak silat(1) in a gym with other people (a grand sport on its own) and you can buy some translated (to english) manuals and basic equipment for two people to practice HEMA(2) with a friend. Later, the opportunity in life can present itself to do HEMA in a club. Passion is the main the factor here, excuses are not for those who truly seek something.

[@casimiriii5941]

I think it would be better if they scored it more like boxing. Let them fight for a set amount of time and have judges tally the hits rather than stopping the fight for every point.

[@gregortheoverlander4122]

That isn't realistic for sword fighting though. Even a tap to the hand can be a permanently debilitating injury. Scoring it like boxing doesn't make any sense when any contact could very well have killed the other fighter in a real duel. A real duel would only last one exchange and as you see from this video usually both would have ended up seriously injured. I think for plate armor fighting that could be good though. Fight goes until someone gets an actual killing blow.

[@casimiriii5941]

Matthew Clay this isn't a real sword fight, this is a sport. So ruling out using a boxing scoring system because it's not like real sword fight is arbitrary at best and quite possibly down right silly. Sport is meant to be entertaining so longer series of actions with less breaks will be more exciting.

[@hallowedfool]

David Craft Yes, but these tournaments are testing grounds for the use of swordfighting as a martial art, not as a sport. The aim of these tournaments isn't to make an entertaining sport (although plenty of us find it entertaining to watch)

[@casimiriii5941]

hallowedfool I see what you are saying, however keep in mind, rather right or wrong, I'm approaching this from a spectators position not a participants.

[@hallowedfool]

David Craft Spectators like yourself are quite rare, though, simply because we are still quite a small community. The tournaments are tailored for both participants and people who practice HEMA for themselves to watch. For spectators without any experience in HEMA, I can see why that would be frustrating but honestly, we don't get many spectators from outside our community since most people haven't even heard of HEMA, so it wouldn't make sense to cater to that group instead.

[@greenhardroc]

I can't imagine this will ever become very big, the fact that they stop every time a point is scored means it is to stop start (and that clipping the opponents hand is equally rated to what would be a lethal wound), and to someone who doesn't know much about it, such as myself, it isn't very interesting. On a side note, in historical sources are fights described as being similar to this in terms of length, because all these bouts all end very quickly because of the judge, but if there wasn't' a judge, how long would most duels have last.

[@danielsmith5664]

I know this is old, so my apologies but for future readers. Historical fights really never went past 3 tempos. (3 full actions.) If they did, the fighters were either extremely skilled, or very bad. The reason that hand shots are equated to kill shots is because if you can't hold a sword you are easy pickings. Not to mention in the historical times these fights are meant to emulate, wounds like that could still very much be lethal or at the very least crippling.

[@the_diplomat51]

Ironic how a Morrowind battle music is playing when HEMA ain't even rng on hit chance lmao, loved it

[@עמריטפלא]

The hug at the end is a bit silly

[@ryigen83]

this looks fun

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

It's even better when you are there fighting! :)

[@korzalm]

Aah. This, is good fencing.

[@chakchinalai827]

this is really very interesting. I practice Kendo and the shinai or more forward weighted. I thought these GoT swords were heavy but they look very balanced and the contestants more very gracefully.

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

That's the fault of the misconceptions brought to us by Hollywood movies. :)

[@marz9743]

Morrowind music now !? Always on point !

[@WihGlah]

Warning for striking the back of the head???? WTF?

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

I know man, this whole "safety" thing is just annoying... I even heard that competitors survive every event they attend, with just some cases of injuries, can you believe that?!

[@WihGlah]

That's why they make back of head protectors....

[@WihGlah]

Please explain to me how thrusting to the face is safer?

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

WihGlah, sarcasm aside, lets answer your question and kill two birds with one stone. Back of the head protection is used to compensate for the lack of protective mesh on the back of the mask, and since it is attached to the mask (in one way or another) it will never be as sturdy and solid as the mask itself (not to mention most of such protection elements are flexible pieces of equipment), hence it will be always safer to be attacked from the front than from the back, this is the design of the fencing mask - it’s not a helmet. On top of that, not all fencing masks and back of the head protections are made equal: kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZPYZo2AhaajbM0m37s My main point is - name any back of the head protection made to this day you would use if I would like to test its protective effectiveness by striking you with full force to the back of the head with a steel federschwert? Would you even sign up for such test? I'm not even speaking about thrusting, which is inevitably too dangerous… Some further reading for my dear viewer: www.encasedinsteel.co.uk/2014/11/07/head-protection-helmet-or-fencing-mask/ www.encasedinsteel.co.uk/2016/04/22/what-is-the-difference-between-a-350n-fencing-mask-and-a-1600n-fencing-mask/ www.academyofhistoricalarts.co.uk/files/research/keith-farrell/Construction%20of%20a%20Fencing%20Mask.pdf www.academyofhistoricalarts.co.uk/files/research/keith-farrell/Dementia%20Pugilistica%20in%20HEMA.pdf

[@Hobbitonhold]

I would never want to strike someone to the back of the head even with protection. For obvious reasons!

[@deniskouzmin]

Seems like fighters are too close to each other. Chaos as it is, but entertaining)

[@BLACKIE16491]

I thought Skyrim started up without my permission, I freaked out

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

lol :D

[@ВладимирПрожужжатель]

8:40

[@haltheviking575]

James got more hits first idk where they found these judges

[@123nicanor]

I don't know, every time I watch a hema competition, almost all the scores were because they hit the hands. Why not just take away the score in hitting them? I personally think it would increase the entertainment value of this.

[@MiskyWilkshake]

That's because the aim of HEMA is to recreate combat as accurately as possible in a safe environment, and a blow to the hands would be debilitating and cause you to be killed. Taking the points away for a blow to the hands would fundamentally change how the fighting is done, and make far less historical approaches to fencing more viable in competition. If you want to watch swordplay done for entertainment's sake rather than historical accuracy, look into sports fencing -or hell, watch fight choreography- but HEMA fills a different niche.

[@Jonobos]

That is a general principal of any good martial system. Attack the closest target first. The hands are often the closest target especially at the outer range.

[@denrari]

This would get great ratings on American television given proper style. This would make a great sport for the History channel or something PS: Striking in the hands seems like bullshit

[@sasafeniks1]

Lvl up end fight. From Oblivion game...

[@ArthurHerbst]

Was looking for that comment ;) The music, including the level up sound, is from Morrowind though.

[@THECAPI13]

Dat 2:58 though...

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

Imagined that one being performed without armour with sharp blade, hrhr? :D

[@THECAPI13]

Very graphic indeed.

[@ViciouSExorcisT]

First thing that comes to mind, Money: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hJitlqeuZrWdj9E

[@TakaImprezka]

Hell yeah!

[@Nanoc.]

That Morrowind soundtrack lol

[@ToastiLP]

Love the slow motion, real nice

[@fengxuezhou]

too many " x points each", not like the real battle

[@Va11idus]

MacGlips footwork is fucking atrocious. He's lucky they aren't actually fighting to the death. He would be so easy to catch off balance.

[@paleosteveo3501]

POINT HOLD! Booshuuuum

[@luissteger]

i wish that camera had a better fps this shit is getting unbearable

[@maddyocre]

Музычка из морровинда...

[@oisinnewport8668]

macgilp has an unusual technique but it seems to work for him

[@justinw947]

quit squeaking your shoes on the floor, youre basically never in a decent foot position.

[@chickensandwich1589]

Morrowind music! ha

[@gregoryrasputin5364]

Like for morrowind music

[@andymatheson82]

gay