HEMA | Swordfish 2018 - Cutting Competition (3rd stage)

[@misantrope6267]

When you kill Invaders in Dark Souls 11:38-11:42

[@Gottaculat]

As an American, I'm not sure which I find more fascinating; shooting competitions, or HEMA. Both are badass, and I'm grateful these sports exist! Life is good!

[@erichusayn]

Really cool shit. Very well organized competition. The ESPN of HEMA.

[@swordechoes]

GHFS are doing a fantastic job indeed! P.S. And don't forget the whole web page dedicated to the event! swordfish.ghfs.se/

[@emceeunderdogrising]

Super cool shit. I love it.

[@Slasha00]

great competition! it'd be awesome if they had a high-fps camera so we could see these cuts in a smooth slowmo.

[@99Plastics]

Ye the competition really lacks on videography department. I know their financials aren't insane but a fund raiser between local clubs could definitely easily sponsor some decent gear.

[@bonedaddy4951]

So glad they dressed for the occasion...

[@KingMoogoe]

Glad to see you back

[@swordechoes]

Thank you. I can't begin to tell how happy I'm to be back. ;)

[@sspark2686]

11:41 *Dark Souls player detected*

[@makislazer5118]

Its great to see you are back Exo! Many greetings from Greece and your old wotr buddy

[@swordechoes]

It's a pleasure to be back, my dear friend!

[@kaizen5023]

Miss Johnston who fixes and measures the tatami mats... wow 😍

[@polerin]

the cat in the demo graphics.

[@sparrowhawk81]

10:12 fucking beautiful. Edge alignment is dead on, plenty of snap. Pivot timing is perfect. The blow lands before the pivot finishes so no energy from the pivot is lost.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Impeccable basics, the prerequisite for high skill in fencing. I think that ability to pivot is what distinguishes a sword from a knife.

[@TheGodTell]

2:44 Theon Greyjoy, is that you? 😂

[@I-KNIGHT-OF-YOUTUBE-I]

really your bringing GoT into this come on its a different country entirely almost all of the actors were British.

[@herrautisto5294]

@@I-KNIGHT-OF-KZbin-I how does that matter you nerd

[@sutiner1991]

13:38 Steve Jobs??

[@korpakukac]

What about sharpening the blade between competitors? The first one to use the sword will have it the sharpest like this.

[@psiera4332]

they re using the same type of sword not the same sword.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

@@psiera4332 Yeah. This does strike me as about testing edges from the Japanese tradition.

[@seanfranklin1591]

They are in fact all using the same physical sword. The amount of dulling from a few cuts against the tatami mats are basically negligible. If you lent it out for a hundred cuts you could notice a big difference, but for this it doesn't matter. HEMA cutting swords are also typically shaving sharp before a cutting competition, and still shaving sharp after.

[@KinkyFulcrum]

14:31, man who thought he had no hope left in him finds last bit of hope and loses it

[@poja82]

I really dont see how Finland guy ended up first, he only did a clean cut in the first one.

[@jeffwells641]

Gold's first cut was cleanest of all 3 competitors, second was shaky, third failed but nearly completed, fourth was clean but over-committed. Silver had two reasonably clean cuts (but neither as clean as gold's first), a clean third, and a failed fourth. Bronze was first two reasonably clean cuts, a failed third and failed fourth. The way I see it, Gold and Silver were basically a tossup. I think they eventually gave gold to Finland because of that super clean first cut, and his failure was better than Silver's (Silver only made it about 1/4 into the second tatami on his failure, where gold made it 3/4 through). One of those would have cancelled out the less clean second cut, and the other would have put him over the top.

[@seanfranklin1591]

It is because the score was cumulative between all three rounds. In the final round Kristian (Finland) was way behind Ties (Netherlands). But Kristian had cut significantly better in the first two and was still able to maintain his lead.

[@aljoschalong625]

I had the same question. My theory was that Kristian had the definitely best cut (his first). But I don't know enough about HEMA.

[@pampered_gooner]

okay i'm rooting for the chad in the bathory shirt edit: good try king

[@sparrowhawk81]

@8:40 Pivoted but finished the pivot too quickly. Any gained energy from the pivot went into the ground when the foot landed before the strike.

[@ColdNapalm42]

They should make them use the Albion Talhoffer or Agincourt.

[@RandomAllen]

*What's the deal with pommels*

[@ciarfah]

Redman A They're coarse, rough, and topple empires

[@destroyka777]

You need them to end your foe rightly!

[@Scott90314]

@@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique weird flex bro

[@sparrowhawk81]

4:05, gotta pivot. I think maybe he didn't do it because he was too close.

[@steamc4tz]

Nice sweep!

[@stygiansong]

*Cutting performed with the Albion Principe, the most op cutting sword you can buy.*

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Ikr, it’s basically like a cheat code. They should be able to cut through 3 at a time

[@ciarfah]

Anyone know where to buy Matthys' trousers? They're sweet

[@aljoschalong625]

Nice. I have to see if I find a place where they do HEMA around Munich. I clearly don't know much of it now. I didn't quite get it why the Finnish guy won.

[@qwormuli77]

Not adept in competition cutting at all, either, but the scoring is cumulative and his first cut was by far the best of them all. His other cuts also fared quite well and even the unterhau failed by less than what the other's did. The last cut especially was a bit messy in movement, but delivered. Not sure how much the movement is considered in scoring. I'm also Finnish, too, so I might also have unknown bias in this. Just as a heads up.

[@seanfranklin1591]

Cumulative scoring. Kristian had a significant lead going into the final round, and despite his underwhelming performance (definitely not his best day) Ties was not able to make up enough ground to overtake him.

[@kilianconn5091]

Bathory shirt hell yeah

[@arx3516]

Is it just my impression or the swords of the dutch and finn competitors got slightly bent after the cuts?

[@Marvomeister]

It's a Albion, some of the greatest modern reproduction swords, I don't think it will bent that easily.

[@qwormuli77]

If you're talking about the slowed footage, it's just elastic flexing of the blade. A sword is supposed to flex a bit (quite a bit, even), so that it can take the forces applied to it during use without getting fractures into the steel, or outright shattering. A bit like a spring does. The harder you make the steel, the more fragile and less tough you make it --applies to most of materials engineering, not just swords. Depending on blade geometry, the tip could flex over 90 degrees in relation to the hilt (elastic deformation), before any permanent damage or a bend (plastic deformation). But on any footage after the cuts, at least I couldn't spot any bends or chipping.

[@sombersloth7010]

Why would they use the same sword? Surely the blade would dull just so slightly after each cut? I mean, it depends on the steel and what kind of edge the blade has but in my experience with bladed tools the sharper the edge, the faster it dulls. I wouldn't mind bringing my little grindstone with me so I could make sure the edge was hair shaving sharp before each cut (given the steel would allow me to do it quickly). // a woodsman wielding Gränsfors bruks axes P.S I have no experience with swords, I only work with an axe

[@logitimate]

He means the same model, not the same physical object.

[@qwormuli77]

Besides what logitimate said, bringing a good cutting edge to a thick axe with a large bevel angle is way faster than on a sword for a competition like this. Not even sure how much of a secondary bevel they got on the apple seed. They'd be there for a long time in that case.

[@seanfranklin1591]

They are in fact all using the same physical sword. The amount of dulling from a few cuts against the tatami mats are basically negligible. If you lent it out for a hundred cuts you could notice a big difference, but for this it doesn't matter. HEMA cutting swords are also typically shaving sharp before a cutting competition, and still shaving sharp after.

[@MakutaZuul]

💚

[@migmindy]

Sean Franklin!!!

[@migmindy]

Oh man, its great to see B&I in swordfish

[@patrickloney5959]

@5:00 his knees buckle out of alignment. That front foot hop probably didn't help much either.

[@algomez8563]

Hi. Is this overcomitting a cut notion, a modern thing, found in the manuals or an influence of japanese kenjutsu? I had the impression that european medieval and renaissance fencers did not practiced cutting.

[@ΔομναΣ]

And what do you think they did with their swords, rub them against the opponent?

[@kronos1794]

At its base HEMA is a martial art which means that if you can't cut properly with a weapon used primarily for cutting you're diminishing the "martial" element of your martial art.

[@qwormuli77]

@@kronos1794 True enough. But the point is that competition cutting on this level is as close to what you are describing as Olympic fencing. You don't measure a soldier by his ability with a benchrest rifle.

[@kronos1794]

@@qwormuli77 I wouldn't say this is the equivalent of a soldier shooting from a benchrest. A more accurate comparison would be sharpshooting. At this level you need a strong command of the fundamentals of cutting to do well. The nuance of the technqies associated with the sword is covered in sparing, combine youre ideally better able to effectively utilize a blade with the intention of cutting your opponent while defending yourself.

[@jungi001]

I would shit my pants sitting where the audience or even worse the judges sit. What if someone loses his sword whilst cutting?

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

Kind of underwhelming considering they were using cut focused longswords for this

[@leonelpadilla8484]

Cutting shows that's even the most humble swordsman can be too confident in ones ability. There's is always a blade sharper than yours.

[@BrianHuynhPersonal]

Time to chemically etch my blade till its a molecule thick

[@itinerantpoet1341]

Good thing the sword doesn't matter, only the swordperson's skill and strategy!

[@TatTvamAsi2772]

It's the sharpness of the cutter that makes the difference.

[@Judicial78]

4:17 Glad they used Jane to check the tatami ;)

[@slappy8941]

Uh, yeah.

[@doomfloof101]

For a minute there, it looked as though the combatants had cut and run.

[@DesignfacestudioRo]

i want to subscribe to your chanel

[@phaikia13]

Looks easy... it bloody hell isn't. Not to mention, accidentally slicing your leg open if you screw up.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

And if you think that's bad, imagine a moving target!

[@outsideiskrrtinsideihurt699]

They’re using very cut-friendly swords so you’d think they be a bit better

[@matthewchin6454]

you got loose plastic sheeting on the floor of your athletic arena.

[@ColossalSwordFormAndTechnique]

Too bad i can't show my cutting combos. Oh whelp, whatever.

[@TheTbet]

Those judges sit few meters from people swinging blades in their direction

[@itinerantpoet1341]

HEMA is impressive, especially the skill exhibited in longsword competitions. But if you want me to be impressed by cutting mats, you need to have at least a dozen per round, and the swordperson needs to cut them one after the other in sequence, judged similar to park skating. All this particular type of cutting competition tells me is that someone can cut though a defenseless mat from a still start. You see competent cutting on Forged with Fire, but that doesn't make the swordsmiths blademasters.

[@ConkerBirdy]

>competent cutting >Forged with Fire Yeah no, they hit with their flats half the time then use the excuse of "Well it mustve been a bludgeoning sword" (which dont exist)

[@wademoss3864]

Hau=Hew=Cut

[@peha688]

The best part is when the girl comes.

[@patio87]

It seems like Japanese are WAY better at cutting.

[@swordechoes]

Practice makes perfect. :)

[@TrivialTax]

Different sword type. Japanese sword are, on avarage, more top heavy, more suitable for choping. Those sword are also made for thrusting, losing some edge :) But also - its more popular sport in Japan, so you can be right regardless.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

@@TrivialTax Plus, the Japanese art is an extant system, and they've been testing *blades* this way for many centuries.

[@darthplagueis13]

Well, two things really: 1: The Katana is very much a specialized cutting weapon. Like, you can also thrust with it, but that's not what it's best at. European longswords like the ones used in this competition are designed around doing both fairly well, but that means that the Katana is gonna have a slight advantage in terms of balance and blade geometry specifically for doing cuts like that. Like, if you look at the sword used by the contestants, it starts off really wide and tempers towards a super thin point at the end. This means it's balanced more towards the handle (giving you more point control but also making it easier to lose too much momentum on a weaker swing) and doesn't have a 100% even thickness. Your average Katana on the other hand is gonna have pretty even thickness across the entire blade all the way towards the point, which makes it a bit more top heavy (which is a bit more efficient when chopping through things) and also means it's less important which part of the blade is the one to hit. 2: The japanese shown in the clip were cutting only *one* mat at a time which is a lot easier than slicing through two with the same swing because you don't have to worry about losing too much momentum. All of the cuts that failed in the video were on the second mat.

[@itinerantpoet1341]

@@darthplagueis13 Excellent points! Thanks for that. My only comment is there is no excuse for losing energy in any cut, regardless of the weapon, and it only indicates that the person handling the sword has not practiced sufficiently. Drilling is more important, in my experience, that sparring, and practicing every cut a million times more important that cutting stationary objects. A similar critique of current chinese sword is you'll have an person with some knowledge talk authoritatively about the weapon, and how important it is to have a real sword, and they will cut a piece of bamboo cleanly without disrupting the base, which seems impressive, but then you look for a video of them demonstrating some of the trainings sequences, and those don't exist. So all you know is that they can do something trivial that any blacksmith should be able to do to test an edge, but not how much time they've spent actually training. I worry that there is a conflation with cutting stationary objects and swordsmanship. The former is a matter of physics, while the latter requires not deep understanding of the use of the weapon, but reinforcement via constant training, and discernment of viable strategy. I think there is too much emphasis on "the art of cutting men down" and not enough on the art of protecting one's body with one's blade. Musashi could clearly do both, but most of what I see in the modern sports looks like mutual death.

[@matimus100]

A superstitious fearing Cross on the Swedish flag i see. Not good.

[@weedtalk87]

Whitest shit I've ever seen 👏👏👏

[@stevenk8189]

Nerd festival.