HEMA longsword training tips: The 12 guards/posta of Fiore dei Liberi

The 12 guards, or 'posta', of Fiore dei Liberi as used in Schola Gladiatoria SG1. The 12 guards are in fact made up slightly differently in each of Fiore's treatises (you could say that there are really only 11 main longsword guard 'posta'). Each of the positions can be forwards or backwards weighted, so in the video we're really just looking at the general positions.

[@Calimbandil87]

Thanks for posting this one. Though it´s been a while now. My fencing club has been postponed over the winter and apparently I have been tasked with going through the basics with a few potential newcomers. This will be very useful for them to watch before I can get there

[@JosefGustovc]

Love your British pronunciation of the Italian names Matt =). Fancy, but correct.

[@itznoxy7193]

Good video but very terse on info and hard to hear the names clearly. You should consider doing a video where you demonstrate these clearly to the camera and explain a little bit about each one. I love all your other videos especially the longsword ones. I only have a longsword and I don't practice with a group so getting these positions down would help me greatly as someone looking for a place to start.

[@TheCrimsonIdol987]

I'd suggest buying Fiore's Flower of Battle. It's available on Amazon in hardcover and softcover, and is translated to English. Great information in that manuscript!

[@ariesstorm9577]

There is a lot of terminology I need to learn here, which is great I like learning new things

[@IcEye89]

Interesting to see those that don't appear in the German Manuals, always nice to suddenly move into a guard your opponent doesn't recognize and attack from there.

[@rasnac]

It's interesting to see how similar the guard positions are to the ones in kenjustsu.

[@GelatinousShark]

There are only so many ways to kill people with sharpened steel bars, after all.

[@Sixpennysage]

You earned a translate option that alters the word placement to " the guard positions are similar" +1 points

[@ProfesserLuigi]

Sixpennysage It's apparently a translation from bad grammar to good grammar.

[@arx3516]

the basics are similar, but it's in the advanced stuff that the systems totally differ.

[@-smp-scientificmethodpersp838]

Interesting to see your interpretation of the positions They are different from both how I interpreted them and how I was taught.

[@moreparrotsmoredereks2275]

Any chance you could do some more one handed sword videos?

[@pramiltonblarpus1873]

In my class we were taught that posta frontale is to always be held with the sword on the left with the left foot forward. I've read through the various versions of the flower of battle and noticed that the different manuscripts show both versions but only one in each (one will display it on the right while the other will display it on the left). My question is if both are practical?

[@lakesuperiorarmizare7787]

I’ve always done Frontale as directly out in the center. It’s an instable guard so it’s not meant to wait in position. Do you know why your instructor told you to hold it to the left?

[@danieltschirky5234]

very nice overview ! I found the posta di falcone in a book and it looks quite the same as "vom dach" / "vom tag" with both hands over the head. seems useful for fendente straight blows downward. maybe it's only found in the vadi tradition ?

[@pramiltonblarpus1873]

Daniel Tschirky it's only in Vadi. The closest fiore has is posta di Donna la soprana which is almost like a backweighted version of vom tag/ posta di falcone

[@nanyafahkinbiznes1352]

Musashi's watching from above....

[@ariesstorm9577]

"12 guards? I only need 5 guards"

[@Matt_PunchEnthusiast_Morris]

Miyamoto Musashi Chad confirmed

[@bansheemopar]

There is no substitue for the "Pflug" from the Lichtenauer tradition? That is quite astonishing, because I think it is one of the most imporant and natural guard positions.

[@scholagladiatoria]

There is a parry that is somewhat similar to 'pflug', but it is not a 'posta' - this relates to my earlier video about the difference (sometimes) between a guard and a parry.

[@HipposHateWater]

Two words: "Posta Breve" ;)

[@TheJJKG]

Hi Matt, interesting video, I really enjoy your stuff! I am a complete amateur to hema and historical combat, and I've got a question that you could possibly cover in a video. I am not entirely clear on the piercing effectiveness of sharp weapons vs armour. I am aware that swords and convential arrows are/were pretty useless at piercing plate armour, but what about Bodkin arrows, crossbow bolts, axes and polearms? I am also unclear on how well swords and arrows (of all kinds) pierce chain/scale/lamellar armour.

[@Dhomazhir]

I'd move these questions to the Armour Archive or Sword Forum. They are not small replies methinks.

[@JosefGustovc]

this should shed some light on your questions www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131

[@lukegrraaa]

Do you think you could add subtitles when you do instructional videos? It's sometimes hard to hear everything you say with several people in an echoy room. I really do like your videos.

[@judithmcfarland3774]

YES, PLEASE!! We need the names of the different positions, at least.

[@lakesuperiorarmizare7787]

That’s a very strange angle to hold Posta Frontale at.

[@Seallussus]

Posta di donna on the left. or awesome yet practical

[@iggyvontwitch1969]

That is not how you Frontale. The Frontale Posta is often used to push your opponents sword into their own body, restricting their ability to strike. It should be similar to Posta Longa, only with the blade pointed up and the cross laying flat against the opponent. Fiore says: This is the frontal guard, called by some masters the crown guard, that is good for crossing and for thrusts she is also good, that if the thrust comes high she crosses it, passing off the line. And if the thrust comes low again she passes off the line beating the thrust to the ground. Also she can alternatively, when the thrust comes, pass the (front) foot backwards and come with a fendente to the head and to the arms, and come to the boar's tooth guard, and immediately throw a thrust or two, advancing the foot, and come back with a fendente into her own guard. The 12 Posta are: High Posta di Donna (Woman's Guard) Posta di Donna Sinestra (Woman's Guard of the Left) Posta di Finestra (Window Gurad) Post di Finestra Sinestra (Window Guard of the Left) Middle Posta di Fontale (the Guard of the Front) Posta Longa (Long Guard) Posta di Bicorno (Two Horns) Posta Breve (the Brave) Low Porta di Ferro Mezzana (Half Iron Gate) Tuuta Porta di Ferro (Full Iron Gate) Posta di Coda Longa (the Long Tail) Dente di Cinghiaro (Boar's Tooth)

[@GroundWalkerTw]

Hello, I have two problems: 1. As I know, we can do a half turn (meza volta) in all the guard positions so that all of them can be done on both sides. Then why was posta de donna specifically done on both sides? 2. What's the purpose of the posta de donna whereby the sword is put behind the back with the point to the ground?

[@scholagladiatoria]

The 12 guards are made up to 12 in different ways in each version of Fior di Battaglia - really there are only 11 posta. My explanation for this is that 12 was a 'special' number in medieval culture - 12 disciples, 12 months in the year etc - so Fiore wanted there to be 12 guards. In the Getty version, for example, there are two versions of Denti di Cinghiale, whereas other versions only have one. I think he just wanted there to be 12! The Posta di Donna la Soprana is like Guardia di Alta or certain versions of Vom Tag - it is very powerful and very threatening - perhaps more importantly, it is a position that people often find themselves in when they are fighting, so it's useful to include it as a posta, which function really as reference points to start from, end in or move through.

[@GroundWalkerTw]

scholagladiatoria Thanks for clearing up my doubts! :)

[@sonkew826]

***** sorry but yes you do! when you finished the basement you wouldn't stop building the house, would you?

[@sonkew826]

***** sorry, but there have been really stupid comments that actually were serious, it would have been obvious otherwise. you people really need to put "sarcasm" under these things, or a smiley. I mean the things some people believe to be true are just unbelievable. i've laughed about some of their statements only to find out that they actually were serious! sorry, but such people make sarcasm really hard to spot sometimes.

[@krisania96]

To me it's much more intresting to see that there is no left version for the "long tail guard" which appears a lot in sword in one hand, but kinda goes out the window for two handed use though i think thats cause Fiore was not a fan of crossing the hands at guards if you look at the the basic guards the only crossed hand guard is finestra (which could have a propperly described left side for longsword section aswell), though i think it might has to do with something Matt said. i think using either the window guard or the long tail gaurd on both sides is fine (though i usually use the onehanded version even with the longsword, cause in gloves/gauntlets it's far more comfortable and i'm ready for grapling instantly). Though for Posta di Donna i think it's cause the two has pretty different functions, going into a cross/bind from "under" (ie. from the left) is different to the simple "i stopped your fendente with my fendente or frontale"(or whatever how) and left donna is damn good at this kinda thing. I know a pure german tradition follower would give you the looks for openning from the left, but it's a useful skill to be able to do things from both sides and it can be pretty suprising aswell to your opponent.

[@seijiyokota7291]

What about Middle Boar's Tooth?

[@crownlexicon5225]

Why is posta di donna sinestra considered it's own guard, but sinestra finestra (or any of the others on the left) isnt (arent)?

[@antediluvianclockwork9769]

I don't think the posta di donna is supposed to literally look like Fiore's illustration. It doesn't look like it would generate more power in that guard anyways.

[@waffi2001]

@bansheemopar: if you hold the posta breve slightly to the left or right, you'll get a Pflug.

[@scholagladiatoria]

Kind of, though Pflug is normally held with the hands closer to the body, to one side of the hips or the other - Breve is held in front of the body, in the middle. It has quite a different function therefore.

[@eldricgrubbidge6465]

scholagladiatoria Maybe dente di cinghiale would be a closer match? (Although clearly not the same- the point is lower.)

[@kelkun8628]

my fav is posta longa

[@kelkun8628]

and di bicorne

[@BaldrsDraumr]

I've only learned a little, primarily from the German tradition, but some of the high guards shown seem too behind the body. It seems to me that you're inviting a thrust or any attack from a guard starting between you and your opponent. I'd like clarification if provoking attack is the point. Thanks for the excellent longsword videos.

[@iacopoiacoponi1983]

I can't speak for scholagladiatoria, but here's my experience: firstly, in italian 'guard' is translated 'guardia', and this term starts appearing later in italian treatises , while 'posta' is simply an old term for 'position'. So the 'posta' is not a proper guard, and it's not as balanced in attack and defence options. Some of them are more attacking positions, some of them are more defensive ones, some of them are more like guards; and indeed you can deliberatly provoke and attack by leaving uncovered, on purpose, a portion of your body.

[@BaldrsDraumr]

Iacopo Iacoponi I understand that they are not necessarily for warding attacks, rephrased more clearly: I don't understand the benefit of the positions being so far back when in my experience it is quicker and provides less opening attacking from positions to the front of the body.

[@iacopoiacoponi1983]

BaldrsDraumr well, I agree with you that some ones, like 'coda lunga' are a bit open; but I think that distance is a very decisive factor in choosing them. Maybe if the opponent keeps a long distance, you kinda use those to make him come closer

[@hoteldumort3852]

@@BaldrsDraumr In training, we generally beguin at 'duel distance'. In real life, your opponent is very often more far away. This gard (position) is an both an invitation to attack while you got time enough to react to his attack with full force (inertia) and the position offers opportunity to attack in a split second from a lower or an upper angle. And you leg will hide some of your sword's moves. It's an interesting gard.

[@antediluvianclockwork9769]

The audio just fendente'd my ears.

[@mattmanbrownbro]

Do you have any idea of the uses of the "key" guard, or schlussel in German? I've been searching around this question for way too long to not have found anything. Wiktenauer doesn't have it yet, and I still haven't found it in the translated manuscripts that are listed there.

[@KnightedDawn]

Meyer's got info on it.

[@mattmanbrownbro]

I'll have to look again when I have internet access for my laptop.

[@luskarian4055]

poke

[@DarkDrakman]

How i'd like to find a sword school near where i live...

[@DJBranden]

I'm not sure but I would start by searching HEMA + your home.

[@DarkDrakman]

HEMA + Every city in Italy = ? I guess i need to change country ^^

[@DJBranden]

DarkDrakman Wow, you must travel a lot if you live in every city in Italy.

[@MarcoAries]

Io pratico in questa associazione, abbiamo varie sale in giro per l'Italia www.achillemarozzo.it/sale/sale.php

[@victoriansword]

www.communitywalk.com/map/index/1677014

[@hristijanfabijanovic5454]

I have one question,i want to train short sword techique so there is similarities with this techniques or it`s different

[@scholagladiatoria]

Hristijan Fabijanovic For short swords, look to 'langes messer' instruction.

[@hristijanfabijanovic5454]

is there any italian short sword style?

[@vinylfromthevoid]

Hristijan Fabijanovic It depends on what you mean by short sword, but try Bolognese Sidesword. There are some excellent tutorials on youtube by Ilkka Hartikainen and La Sala delle Armi.

[@filip4767]

+Hristijan Fabijanovic These look more like Bastards or Smaller greatswords than longswords.

[@bladeofhel]

Except that they are Longswords...longsword and bastard sword are interchangeable terms.

[@1964TP]

Do you have a place where is is spelled out? Literally, how do you spell the words.

[@e.zponder7526]

Fiore's treatise is available online through Matt's website, so you can read up on them if you wish. In the order he demonstrates and names them, they are: 1) Posta di Donna (guard of the lady) 2) Posti di Donna la soprana (High guard of the lady) 3) Posta di fenestra (Window Guard) 4) Posta di Donna la sinestra (Guard of the Lady on the left) 5) Posta Breve (Short Guard) 6) Posta Longa (Long Guard) 7) Posta Frontale (Front Guard) 8) Posta di Bicorne (Two-horned Guard) 9) Posta di Dente di cinghiale (Boar's Tooth Guard) 10) Mezzo Porta di Ferro (Middle Iron Gate) 11) Tutta Porta di Ferro (Whole Iron Gate) 12) Posta di Coda Longa d'esteso (extended Long Tail Guard)

[@KinkyFulcrum]

The girl in the black shirt and glasses, on the left, has absolutely no idea what she's doing.

[@gurkfisk89]

+KinkyFulcrum She is left handed. So the instructions messes somewhat with her brain similar to how reading "red" printed in green ink can be an distraction. And not standing similar to everyone else also makes correction to the group more difficult.

[@fougeregarantie6126]

+gurkfisk89 I'm left handed and train with various kind of weapon; I call bullshit here, just mirror the instructions it will be perfectly fine. Or double the training and train both hands. That's not very complicated to be left handed, only problem is that most of sabers or guns are a pain in the ass to operate quickly (actually some sabers are not usable left handed) and that is without mentionning the fact that sheats are most of the time designed for right handed draw

[@gurkfisk89]

Ethan Cole I agree that after a while it's not a problem at all. But as this seems to be beginners I can absolutely see it being a bit more complicated than it is for the rest of the students. In a few weeks I think that this student also have no problem with it. And I bet it will not be a problem even before remembering the different way to cut with the true or false edge is no longer a problem (an other thing that is not comlicated at all but some new students struggle with).

[@fougeregarantie6126]

gurkfisk89 yeah sure; I never struggle with those problem because I always assimilate the people's right hand to my left; as an example, it feels really weird having a sword in the left hand of my character in videogames

[@shrekas2966]

boys boys boys. were looking for a good time.

[@DaaaahWhoosh]

Weird seeing some of these after a few weeks of learning German longsword. Is it wrong to assume that Italian is just kinda stupid by comparison?

[@ChazzTrott]

DaaaahWhoosh while it's easy to get into a mindset of one set of technique being superior, you must remember that all combat is situational. With forms and techniques being the commonalities of situations. We as fighters must strive to understand all of these situations and techniques to be better prepared for any eventuality.

[@ZegohsOfZegCrew]

Yes. It's not the system, but the user.