Hitchens-Wilson Debate (Part 1)

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[@danieldegracia1690]

How I miss the time, "when debates like this existed".

[@tnecniv4_nl752]

My right ear is lonely

[@richbozzi3148]

Since no one was there.., let’s go to circumstantial evidences which can be quite compelling

[@richbozzi3148]

Kudos to Mr Wilson…

[@woodytheduke]

He got slaughtered,,,,wake up godboy!

[@ventureoffroading]

Kudos for making it all the way to the end of debate and not crying; certainly he wanted to after that beating.

[@brianmeen2158]

@@ventureoffroadinghuh? I’m not religious but Wilson did very well here and had Hitchens stumped a few times

[@maimedlord6999]

​@Brian Meen can you please point out where he stumped Hitchens?

[@notloki3377]

34:00 onwards hitchens fails to give a reason for his objective moral stances.@@maimedlord6999

[@H8theRake]

This seems to me to be one of the best debates you can readily find online, despite the audio problems. Usually Hitch destroys Christian windbags who think scripture is evidence. This pastor actually makes good points that Hitch has to reach deeper than usual to refute.

[@woodytheduke]

well he seemed to kick the snot out of rabbi boteak,,,,my favorite hitch

[@cb25]

Reach deeper 🤣🤣 he genuinely learned from Doug but had no answers in the debate

[@brianmeen2158]

Agree, Wilson stumped Hitchens several times . Impressive

[@woodytheduke]

@@brianmeen2158 you indoctrinated idiots are all the same. Go watch a fallwell video,your not clever enough to view this one!

[@woodytheduke]

@@brianmeen2158 stupid comment godboy,,please state when the Hitch was stumped several times?

[@loya2467]

Honestly a fun debate

[@JmO-ee1bi]

eah one of the better ones, Wilson was better than most of the folks Hitch went up against.

[@foddyfoddy]

What a mean-spirited moderator. When asked to call Christopher by his full name, he didn't even apologise.

[@stevenrogersfineart4224]

I don't know how mean spirited it was. Christopher added the little dig that "it is my name". He could have simply asked him to call him Christopher

[@tyc4587]

Much nicer than Christopher

[@TrippySuccubus]

@@stevenrogersfineart4224 You should ask before shortening someone’s name, and by the time of this debate, it had already been well known that Christopher wouldn’t allow himself to be called Chris (and why he wouldn’t).

[@wano2363]

@@TrippySuccubus and why is that? I'm just curious.. I call him hitch

[@idontgetnotifiedaboutrepli2332]

It’s your own recording and you can’t upload a better version? How?

[@David-ru3km]

Hitchens has this reputation for being a debate killer. But he really is pretty average here.

[@nickson1431]

I think it's fair to say, most heroic acts in history, were never seen nor written about.

[@willkoestner4159]

Absolutely.

[@mrt445]

True but that doesn't add to the discussion

[@nickson1431]

@Solus Christus did somebody with a beard tell you to say that?

[@willkoestner4159]

@Solus Christus This is a thought probably best discussed within the walls of a church. That is where the topic belongs. I mean no disrespect, but that is likely where you'll find greater appreciation for your voice.

[@ChillAssTurtle]

@Solus Christus lots of gods died and came back to life throughout history and thousands of years before the bible.. the bible is simply a hodge podge of dozens of different NEARBY religions and most of its books are confirmed forgeries XD

[@K-Wiles]

240p??? Is there a version not filmed on a potato??

[@pauloguti]

I don't think there is.

[@ronaldsmall8847]

Christopher Hitchens knows the truth now.

[@MB777-qr2xv]

Yeah now he finally does.

[@tyc4587]

Welp, Hitchens is a creationist now…

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

no definitely he is not.

[@ejohnson7095]

Your proof is lacking.

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

If religion can do such damage to an intelligent brain like this, imagine what it can do to an innocent child.

[@edwinrivera5377]

No I gave birth to my own mother

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

@@edwinrivera5377 You must’ve been twisted up like a pretzel! 🤣

[@seamusblack5876]

Sound is terrible

[@lesart3446]

The sound is terrible.

[@stevenrogersfineart4224]

It's from AT LEAST 7 years ago dude. Be glad we have the debate available at all :P

[@Azoria4]

@@stevenrogersfineart4224 more than 7 years, Hitchens has been dead for 11 lol

[@lamalama9717]

Hitch certainly had a personal style that exuded confidence in the positions he espoused. However, he was capable of changing his views on things over time (hence his falling out with much of the Left over Iraq). I imagine he would've been intellectually honest enough to also admit to having been provided with sufficient evidence for God claims. He wasn't, so didn't accept there is a God. That's actually a form of modesty, rather a sign he thought he was God himself.

[@isthisgary]

There is no evidence to God existing... Only the contrary.... And your a bootlicker to a false sky daddy.

[@DannyBoy777777]

@@isthisgary *you're*

[@prashants5071]

That's the sign of a thinking human being. It is what is desperately lacking in the world. There are far too many people who believe on God with zero evidence and are willing to die and kill for it. Shows how lacking the education system is in terms of inculcating critical thinking skills.

[@johnoneill4483]

he never thought there was a god!

[@drsatan9617]

There isn't any real evidence for god claims tho

[@jonkent928]

This was not a debate. This was a moderator just letting people talk as lomg as they'd like. Actual questions amd amswers woth a time limit would make it clear who is answering questions and who is deflecting them.

[@A_friend_of_Aristotle]

Hitchens bobbled the "by what standard" question from Wilson. The correct answer, given Christopher's humanism, would be human life qua human life. This means that the standard is the preservation and advancement of human life in the manner of a human being. Man is a reasoning animal and should live as a reasoning animal and each person should treat each other as individuals, not as an objects of sacrifice or as tribal members.

[@ceceroxy2227]

Thats not a good answer either. man is a reasoning animal yes, but not sure where you get this treat other as individuals, why not reason and say I dont care about these people and take there stuff and kill them because they dont mean anything to me. You are borrowing from the Christian World view as valuing others and putting that as some moral obigation or duty. Why should we care about others, who says, what if it gets in the way of self interest, what if I have the power to do as I please.

[@chancewilson6256]

“Man is a reasoning animal and should live as a reasoning animal.” This is a moral statement. When you say we should act in a certain way and are asked “by what standard” and you respond with a moral claim, you’re begging the question, it’s fully circular. If your basis for what we should do is that we should do it, you are left without a standard.

[@tyc4587]

Why should we live as reasonable animals? Says who? That’s the point no atheist can answer

[@ceceroxy2227]

@@tyc4587 many times the reasoning animal, will say, what benefits me, thats what I should I do. that seems like valid reasoning

[@tmatthews0007]

@@ceceroxy2227 and yet you could say it may benefit you to murder or steal. These things are among those that hitchens would say are wrong.

[@johndavis9591]

Religion, the gift that taketh away...

[@alanroberts7916]

And religion keeps on taking...money, lives, marriages, time, common sense, and hopes and dreams of children and gives lies and nonsense in return.

[@kdr3619]

@@alanroberts7916 As opposed to aetheism which has given the world so very much...

[@eliesh3833]

@@kdr3619 _"As opposed to aetheism which has given the world so very much..."_ I'm not saying atheism is a flawless belief (or lackthereof), but it has encouraged human beings to go much further and make more progress than religion has. Whenever religion held overwhelming power over civilization, human beings were severely held back in many ways, socially, creatively and intellectually.

[@tpstrat14]

7:35 Hitchens liked that one

[@thetruthaboutscienceandgod6921]

Please share my two brief videos with other people. Thanks!!

[@Deebo420]

Delete the moderator.

[@ReLair88]

Hitchens was quite wrong about there not being a Hell in the OT. It was called Sheol (Hades) in Greek. That is where the unrighteous dead await judgment. The phrase, "go down to the pit" is used often of Sheol.

[@henriksylvestolsen4885]

Hades is a restplace - hell was first introduced in the NT

[@constructivecritique5191]

There is no evidence of humans or their artifacts from hundreds of thousands of years ago. Records only show a few thousand year old artifacts. Like 6,000.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

FALSE. There are tons of human remains. Maybe take a class in science you clown.

[@n0w3lly90]

The thing that is so stupid about the "you are just chemicals" argument is the same as saying "you are just hydrogen and oxygen", the chemical bond between two of one and one of the other creates water, a life giving molecule. It also demonstrates incredible ignorance about chemistry. The very many chemicals within us, in isolation, might be "just chemicals", but not once they interact, bond, or split, they aren't! It is an exceptionally simplistic argument. What the preacher is saying is, analogous to that: "you are just a piece of magnetic metal", which, combined with microprocessors, the act of spinning via motors, and electricity, results in a hard drive storing vast quantities of information. Chemical processes within a human body results in pleasures, pains, anxiety, stress, elation, joy, relief... all kinds of feelings

[@JmO-ee1bi]

Yes higher levels of complexity emerge from the underlying complexity of quantum field/particle physics and relativity for space time with energy and mass interacting between them, and we’re working on uniting the 2 mathematically today and eventually will which as usual will open even greater questions as is the beautiful ability of science. The real question is how we could extrapolate from aforesaid physics things like neurobiology, psychology, economics, sociology, etc. and essentially predict the future completely and even change it with said knowledge as we have since gone immemorial with tools of all kinds and do with microchips and propaganda today.

[@seawolf7649]

Yeah- these needy, falsely confident theists seem to simply devalue and dismiss the natural world of reality as we are seemingly existing within it. Christians seem unimpressed with that which we actually “have” in the now. These people arguing like the pastor are really down on the world and cosmos as we experience it. Sad. They can’t value their lives if they don’t lick the boots of an invisible space guru who sacrifices himself to himself so he can forgive them for things he made them do to begin with. This is a very unimaginative and uninspiring approach to take to life as we know it. Theists= Haters.

[@chancewilson6256]

Mr Wilson knows that well enough, his argument isn’t that there’s literally no difference. His argument is that if there is nothing transcendent, there is no point in putting faith in reason if reason is a chemical reaction and not something that exists on its own transcendentally. I think your scoffing comes from missing the point.

[@tyc4587]

Your comment proves his point. If chemicals and (insert whatever you just said) decide what is right and wrong, it’s just a chemical response and isn’t truly right or wrong

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

Say there is a higher being or power that created everything what makes you think we know anything about it , it certainly is not in the Bible or in any other holy book created by man. you look at I don’t know as a weakness when it just shows the honesty of science to say I don’t know until we do know , not just making things up with no proof or evidence for it.

[@fiatlux805]

Hitchens points out that Jesus arguably gave good moral teachings but then later talks about how 'love your enemies' is an evil idea, which came from Jesus. So I'm itching to ask which is it hitch?

[@danielgriebling6123]

Hitch’s only error was assuming Douglas Wilson was generally a good person…google him and read for yourself.

[@johnlocke6800]

If by "generally a good person" you mean that he would let him win the debate I can see your point. As it is, I think he was also in error thinking he would win this one.

[@ArugaPH]

Haha, doug wilson is not your typical weak christian. Wilson is a masculine christian the evangelical world needs today.

[@Herandezbrothers]

My left ear is in overdrive

[@ENFPerspectives]

39:15 So Hitchens can erase his immoral enemy, but the rightepus LORD God cannot punish? 🤔🥱 Ha. What ego.

[@JmO-ee1bi]

Randomness is just order we haven’t figured out how to characterize against falsification attempts and most importantly become able to accurately predict with high probability. The second law of thermodynamics insists that some disorder will always exist, but the nature of living things is to fight against this chaos with order, negative entropy or negentropy as E.O. Wilson called it.

[@chaplainstudent5689]

Yet it can't be God?

[@TrippySuccubus]

@@chaplainstudent5689 It isn’t that it can’t be god. It’s that you need to prove it was god. Prove god, and be very specific about which god you’re proving.

[@ztazon]

Because you can't attribute causality of real phenomena to unreal agents; you must first demonstrate that such a being exists, It can interact with reality and you can predict with certainty its behavior. Then you could start hipotesizing about its motivation and intentions. Heaps of work before you. It's what you get for backing blindly a poor explanation of reality @@chaplainstudent5689

[@robertblakeman9978]

Hitch left these students stupified and his opponent totally vanquished intellectually and possibly 'spiritually!', whatever that means!

[@87DAM1987]

I love how Wilson, really goes to the philosophical questioning. Because Hitchens, nor any atheists I might add, can answer the question of what standard nor why. Because that's something mankind has been reasoning with for millinias. Why are we here, why is there death, pain, sorrow, etc, etc. Chance, reason, darwinism and science cannot answer those questions. And I believe those questions are really the questions, most people have. Maybe in this age of technology, where you have so many things distracting you, maybe those are not the questions. But as we can tell in history. Those were I big part of our ancestors questions.

[@andrehanderson]

It doesn't matter if it can't be answered by atheists, though. You can't plug in "God" just because you don't have another answer. There needs to be sufficient evidence to justify plugging in God, and atheists don't accept the evidence that theists are offering.

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

So you just grab anything then yeah Christianity sounds like a winner, not. That’s just as good as anything else anyone else can think of because there’s just as much proof zero. Because if you had proof you wouldn’t need faith or belief because you would have proof.

[@blacbraun]

God didn't make this "Standard". Men made it. So why should I obey the standard of bronze age desert dwellers?

[@evannlorman7926]

@@dr.rickmarshall6697 cope.

[@mikej2713]

@@dr.rickmarshall6697 That isnt how proof or faith work though. Proof merely establishes probability but 'faith' is used by all calculations to bridge that gap and form a conclusion. Every inductive conclusion requires some amount of faith. The next time I use the brakes in my car I have faith that they will work again since they have many times in the past. There is a constant and unfortunate tendency to mischaracterize 'faith' and 'proof'.

[@constructivecritique5191]

So it's immoral for a father to pay for the neighbors new bay window that his son's baseball went through! Haha lol 🤣 😂

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

No, dum dum, it's only immoral if the father sacrificed his other son to be tortured for his first son breaking the window. And the dad paying, dum dum, doesn't absolve the culprit son of moral responsibility for his own actions. See what happens when you get rid of your moral safety blanket? You have to take responsibility yourself.

[@constructivecritique5191]

@FightXScience-wh6kx Oh, you mean the other son, the one that encouraged the younger brother to hit the ball over the neighbors roof knowing that his brother didn't have the ability to do it and instead it just went through the nieghbors front window. That other son. Ok 👍 maybe that's why he got grounded? 🤔 I see how your dumb dumb morality works now. Punish the innocent son for trusting his older brothers word, punish the father for not enslaving the 6 year old with a depth that will take years to pay, and released the older deviant son to continue lying and deceiving others so he can cause more needless suffering! That makes perfect sense coming from a dumb dumb atheist.

[@johnlocke6800]

It always rubs me wrong when people bristle at having their name shortened. It's not everyone else's fault you have a 3 syllable name.

[@thomascanfield8571]

So authorities of the Catholic church must REPENT for their evil deeds? No they must step into a jail cell.

[@scottlaux6934]

its not like evangelical preachers aren't raping children and fleecing their congregation intentionally.

[@Think-dont-believe]

Im 51 and still cant wrap my head around the idea people really believe not in theory but in a literal sense. Instead of that becoming easier to understand it has become more ridiculous as my knowledge of all the actions of their god is “known” to have done, ordered, created. He is clearly presented as evil needing to be worshipped, willing to sacrifice your children to him is a good thing, everything good is because of him, everything bad is because of you, you have no right to even question god. What an amazing amount of cognitive dissonance…and a good society will never truly be achievable with acceptance and worship of created evil and confusion .. sad

[@chaplainstudent5689]

You can and have questioned God. My guess is you want to be a programmed robot and only do what God wants? The fact that He created you with the ability of sin and you do. Then you're made at him because he gave you the right and ability to deny Him. You and I sin, not God. He gave you freedom to chose.

[@ejohnson7095]

@@chaplainstudent5689 if your god is omniscient, he knew I would be an atheist before I knew it myself. He could have saved his "gift" of freedom of choice and "saved" everyone. I guess he just wants some of us to go to hell. LOL. Christianity is for folks who have a fear of death or an unhealthy desire to be immortal.

[@chaplainstudent5689]

You don't like your free will I take it. Be glad you have the choice to say no. Isn't that what you want? So, He created you with that ability. Don't be mad at Him. He's just letting you do what you want.

[@ejohnson7095]

@@chaplainstudent5689 lmao, I'm no more mad at god than I am Santa Claus. Your god can give you a gift and punish you if he doesn't like the way you use it. I'm perfectly happy without gods/ goddesses and other imaginary creatures.

[@evannlorman7926]

What's sad is your 51 and putting g yourself on both of these gentlemen after watching a debate on KZbin

[@87DAM1987]

Sound guy should've been fired.

[@pjcortens]

Christianity is based on the plausible assertion by Christ Himself that He was God the Son. That proves God is not merely Prime Mover. I find Mr. Hitchens's arguments facile in the extreme.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

Now you just need evidence for that assertion.

[@philcortens5214]

@@FightXScience-wh6kx Have you heard of the Bible?

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

@@philcortens5214 So the Bible is evidence for the claims in the Bible? You don't find that to be a form of circular reasoning? Does Spider-Man Episode #1 prove the existence of Spider-Man then?

[@philcortens5214]

@@FightXScience-wh6kx The Bible provides (among other things) an historical account of the events of the early First Century A.D. Speaking here of the 'New Testament'. An historical account is evidence of actual events expecially if written by eye witnesses.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

@@philcortens5214 Yes, the Bible is a historical document. But historians don't accept everything in a document to be true simply because it is a historical artefact. Moreover, historiographical standards of evidence don't rise to the level required for proving the supernatural....otherwise you would believe in the Greek gods because the Illiad talks about Poseidon. The Quran is also a historical document, but you don't bow to Mecca 5 times a day. The Bible makes claims. It is not sufficient proof for substantiating all of those claims.

[@pjcortens]

Love is simply wanting what is best for someone. Not impossible even on a natural level, and with the grace of God nothing is impossible.

[@brianmeen2158]

Wilson had Hitchens stumped a few times. This was much more even than I expected

[@woodytheduke]

like when did he stump Hitch? Give us an example godboy!

[@shockofGod]

Hitchens was a horrible debater unfortunately he even died a loser

[@CarlosElio82]

Mathematics exists in this universe. There has always been the case, and will always be the case, that the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of any circle is a constant, Pi. Like God, mathematics exists outside time and is immune to the second law of thermodynamics because it does not decay, it is immortal, eternal, always truth. But mathematics does not want to control your personal life. She doesn't get upset if in the privacy of your life you play with your private parts. The state (king, president, troika, etc.) needs to control your life, otherwise there is no state but perpetual revolution. To control your life religion is a great tool: the vigilante is inside you. In all societies the high priest accompanies the king in official ceremonies.

[@pkingpumpkin]

You are attributing to Mathmatics personhood in your description. You are functionally making a God out of mathmatics when you attribute personhood to mathmatics

[@koraegis]

Darwin and Einstein were hacks in my estimate, praise be to God for discernment. :)

[@seanmcmahon9217]

You might want to double check your estimating abilities.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

Clownish statement.

[@chokin78]

I'm sure Christopher's mention of Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera is wrong. Maybe he mixed it up with his father, Miguel, who was a dictator in 1920s Spain, whereas Jose, founder of falange, was executed in the early days of the Spanish civil war (36-39) after enjoying a few years of stardom as the poster child of the nascent but still unimportant Spanish fascism. So he still had plenty of enemies...

[@zahidullahutmankhil3150]

The debate is about religion.

[@woodytheduke]

wow!! Your a clever fellow

[@jasonhinkle4083]

Hitchens hubris was astronomical.

[@danielgriebling6123]

And yet only a fraction of the hubris of every Calvinist I’ve ever met in my life.

[@jasonhinkle4083]

@@danielgriebling6123 the answer to the question of God always comes down to pride vs humility. Spiritual truth is discernible only to a pure heart, not to a keen intellect. It is not a question of profundity of intellect, but of purity of heart.

[@ReLair88]

@@jasonhinkle4083 CHRIS thought he had a purer heart than God, obviously.,

[@brianbell3836]

@@jasonhinkle4083Seems a simplistic analysis.

[@jasonhinkle4083]

@@brianbell3836 pride comes before the fall.

[@alohaoliwa]

definitely some new atheists by the end of this conversation

[@francescog.5096]

Hitchens keeps saying the same thing from debate to debate. If he didn't have an English accent he would be very boring.

[@jaypee8768]

The debate where hitchens got hitch slapped

[@ENFPerspectives]

30:10

[@nattamused9074]

Yikes! I’m rather shocked Wilson allowed Christopher to get away with his assertion that Christianity’s God let humanity trudge around in suffering for 98 thousand years.

[@richbozzi3148]

Not everyone knows good from evil…. Putin, for one, comes to mind right now considering Ukraine

[@tyc4587]

He knows it’s wrong. Just because you act against something you know, doesn’t mean you don’t know it.

[@michaelpatterson5811]

That's not how humans work Rich. Putin knows full bloody well the difference. But being nice to other people didn't get him where he is today. He knows he's a shit, by any reasonable human standard, but if he had a 'faith' in a creator god he would still do the same thing. So - our human instinct will destroy him, not one of the many gods that people put their trust in.

[@richbozzi3148]

@@michaelpatterson5811 well I assume he was nice to who he “had” to be nice too.But I beg to differ weather he thinks he’s a piece of shit.He goes to church, we know that.. but his belief in God would tell himself, He’s a piece of shit. Maybe he has a brain tumor. The survival of the fittest would explain his need for more land, resources and control

[@jimmymiata]

one answer to most questions here is we as a mankind learned almost everything by trial and error

[@usaflambert]

Trial and error relies on the scientific method. The scientific method relies on the uniformity of nature. In a material world of random chance, how do you account for the uniformity of nature? Or to simplify it, how do you know that the same test run 100 times is going to happen exactly the same way the 101st time?

[@jonathanrussell1140]

​@usaflambert and that doubt about the 101st time is sufficient to replace science with something for which there isn't even 1 verifiable hypothesis???? Hitch says "There is no reason to believe any of it to be true". With the scientific method your example gives us 100 reasons. QED.

[@usaflambert]

@@jonathanrussell1140 is nature uniform? If yes, then how?

[@periculumnonvides6066]

The Surface is not a very important part to it is that you have broken down to the Thumbnail and I will move on with my life is all that matters do you know what to do is pay for it and I hope you will be hidden because of salaries that I am not one of their creations in the past mistakes are made to be ensnared and not being a part of it they are not they will resolve it is missed it out of a kind of the universe is the most likely to me to weaponize me and I will move on with 5th grade and to be sure I have been an extremely high school teacher for my parents and my parents and my theory of being honest and I hope you will be hidden because of salaries that I am not one of their creations in the past mistakes are made to be ensnared and not being a part of it they are not they will resolve it is missed it out of a kind of the universe is the most likely to me to weaponize me and I will move on with my life is all that matters do you know what to

[@Dr.TJ1]

How does religion poison murder, theft, and perjury? It says you can be forgiven of murder, theft, and perjury if you believe in a myth and ask to be forgiven so you can spend a mythical eternity in a mythical place. That’s worse than poison, it’s truly evil.

[@Arez455]

Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchinsons, and Matt Dilahunty to this day cannot over come this stop gap. Christopher can’t because he has passed rest in peace. 🙏 my hope was that he came to accept the truth regarding man’s depravity

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

The most depraved thing is religion.

[@Arez455]

@@FightXScience-wh6kx Saying something doesn't make it true.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

@@Arez455 So kinda like how you said something and that doesn't make it true? Now we just need to get to the bottom of who has better reasons for their belief. Is it the Christian dogmatist who relies on faith, scripture, and superstition or the professor of philosophy who teaches logic for a living? Who could it be? 🤔

[@voltairedentotalenkrieg5147]

54:56 "I killed them all" and that's exactly what Hitchens was saying he would do and now he's criticising someone else for it, what an L for Hitchens

[@ronin_gthayc3020]

Let's just say that you and all religious people wake up tomorrow and there are no gods or prophets ,the would carry aall the same .

[@ReLair88]

Of course CHRIS, morality is innate because God put it in us when he created us in His image. It's called a conscience. Talk about rude--CHRIS was the epitome of rude.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

Evidence, ReLiar?

[@altongrimes]

I share his aversion to "religion" and all the control and manipulation that can inspire. But I looked and sought far beyond the fringes of that camp and found a spiritual gold mine.

[@sananton2821]

no

[@orangemanbad]

It’s interesting as a Christian how much I love Christopher. Imagine if he’d been a Christian how powerful his arguments would have been!

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

Go ahead and offer the best argument for God.

[@orangemanbad]

@@FightXScience-wh6kx fine tuning is the best scientific argument for God.

[@Skankovic]

There wouldn’t be as powerful as there isn’t content available to argue with.

[@orangemanbad]

@@Skankovic that’s beyond moronic as a statement. You’re not too bright I see

[@richbozzi3148]

Hitchens says destroy these evil theocrats… that’s what Israel did to the Amelkalites

[@woodytheduke]

on your gods instruction

[@richbozzi3148]

@@woodytheduke kill evil

[@MindandFaith]

And that's we see in Gaza now. Bunch of hypocrites those atheists and zio nists

[@johndavis9591]

Talking snakes and talking donkeys.. If god had his way we would all still be riding donkeys...

[@johndavis9591]

@@jakesanders136 Gibberish, you!r logic is faulty.

[@isthisgary]

@@jakesanders136 Yeah man that was complete jibberish... Could broccoli exist without cabbage? Only if we accept that cardigans are proper work attire.

[@chaplainstudent5689]

You have no evidence of what happened at the beginning, not able to explain the unmerciful odds against the iterations that need to happen just to have a working eyeball, but not a virgin birth?

[@isthisgary]

@@chaplainstudent5689 the burden of proof is on you m8.... You tell me... None of us know our origins. Act accordingly and try to have some dignity man. That Jesus stuff is for kids.

[@isthisgary]

@@chaplainstudent5689 how bout this one.... If there is a god what if he hates blasphemy as much as your silly Jesus god. Do you not care about your after life.. especially since whoever wrote the bible clearly didn't know the origin of man let alone an eyeball .... I don't know our origins man but they are alot older than 6000 years...

[@ENFPerspectives]

30:10 43:00 🤪

[@johnlocke6800]

Wilson, "horrible by what standard?" Hitchens, "let's throw it to the crowd" Around the 30 minute mark is where Hitch lost this debate.

[@richhogg8074]

How so? I feel the opposite. Wilson asks by what standard the eternal torture of human beings is horrible (as though it wasn't self evident) and then goes on to say well, without God you wouldn't have any basis for which to say it is horrible. This is a circular argument that absolves Christianity of its immoral teachings by saying, without us you wouldn't know it was wrong anyway

[@johnlocke6800]

@Rich Hogg and what was Hitchens response again? It's wrong because we all know it's wrong. I'm not sure circular reasoning bugs you as much as you say.

[@richhogg8074]

@johnlocke6800 no he doesn't say that, he says we know it's wrong because we are inherently moral beings and require such morality in order to function within a society, in other talks he says that we would have not survived as a species if we had to wait around for God to give morality to us at some point which he decided would be fitting. To suppose we need God to be moral is ridiculous, since nothing that can be explained rationally requires the existence of God, which is why God is involved when we discuss things we aren't yet advanced enough to explain...

[@johnlocke6800]

@Rich Hogg if genocide is wrong because it is bad for society, would it be right in a situation where it is good for society?

[@eliesh3833]

​@@johnlocke6800 No, because it's not only self-evident that genocide is not good for the society committing it, as it normalizes the idea of slaughtering any people-group you don't like, but it also ultimately isn't good for the society you're genocoding against. Genocide is not good for any society because it infringes upon the wellbeing of humans and hinders our progress in finding solutions to problems that are better than mass killings.

[@Dr.TJ1]

In a demolition derby, you win by destroying your opponents. So basically the pastor said Christianity will win by destroying other religions. That in itself is reason enough to ignore the proclamations of religion.

[@jacobsmith568]

Lol you typed this and some bad people have typed before (and misunderstood/mispresented others). Thats reason enough to ignore your proclaimations of religion.

[@Dr.TJ1]

@@jacobsmith568 I didn’t misrepresent anything the pastor said. He said competing religions are like a demolition derby and only one will remain. I merely described what goes on in a demolition derby. So tell me how I misrepresented what the pastor said or just admit the pastor used an analogy that you don’t like. But don’t try to say I misrepresented anything the pastor said.

[@jacobsmith568]

Should i quote him? I dont have a problem with what he said so its not that I "dont like it". Is there a difference between saying if you line up 5 different things and go through various metrics "eliminating" options as you go and saying 5 groups need to "destroy" each other until 1 remains? The first is what he was clearly saying. If you dont see that then next time and every time someone uses any word like bomb, destroy, agrue, fight, war,etc (this pizza was the bomb, that meeting was brutal, man that was savage, etc) get shocked and insulted and high and mighty and say, "thats reason enough to ignore everything you say" and when they are shocked and puzzled dont be suprised because thats stupid.

[@Dr.TJ1]

@@jacobsmith568 Here's where you're wrong. When someone says the pizza was "the bomb", everyone knows that it's slang in the U.S. for "very good" (not true in other English speaking countries by the way). When someone says the "meeting was brutal", they're not even using slang because one definition of brutal is: punishingly hard or uncomfortable. When someone uses "savage", they mean a person who is fierce and ready to fight, so the slang definition is exactly the same as the colloquial definition. The definitions for two out of three of your slang examples didn't even differ from the colloquial definitions, so you failed badly there. But tell me, who uses a slang analogy of demolition derby to mean anything other than destroying each other until only one remains? Don't bother answering that, because no one uses an analogy like that without meaning to destroy each other until only one remains. Case closed.

[@dharmayogaashram979]

Hitchens got owned. He could not explain where this impulse to do good comes from. The answer is not God but the soul.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

You have to prove the soul exists before appealing to it as a cause.

[@dharmayogaashram979]

@@FightXScience-wh6kx though we Hindus use the more accurate term atmana, it is the provable inner essence of energy/light/heat.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

@@dharmayogaashram979 Go ahead then....prove it.

[@dharmayogaashram979]

@@FightXScience-wh6kx you don't have energy/light/heat? Too funny.

[@FightXScience-wh6kx]

@@dharmayogaashram979 I don't have energy/light/heat? None of those things are spirit dunce.

[@johndavis9591]

Sounds like these people had been cooking with donkey droppings, and smoked some hallucinogens..

[@johndavis9591]

the bible is full of unholy babble!!!!!!!!!

[@tyc4587]

Unholy according to what standard

[@ejohnson7095]

@@tyc4587 to its own standard

[@sublime8728]

In the beginning man created god, not only one god, three gods.

[@raullruizz3883]

Every religious argument "My God makes me feel special and good inside, i have friends because of the Church, i don't fear death because of my religion" So FN what???

[@daviddeida]

Whats your point?

[@richbozzi3148]

Let’s talk Jesus, not religion

[@tyc4587]

On the surface that sound cute and winsome but truly, everyone has a religion. The only question is which one. If you’re a Christian, christ is your religion. Don’t give us that “relationship not religion” garbage

[@richbozzi3148]

@@tyc4587 obviously you didn’t get my “ cute” statement, semantics aside, it’s very simple , don’t make it complicated

[@richbozzi3148]

Did I say “ relationship”..? but thanks , it’s that too

[@richbozzi3148]

Your “ garbage “ is my “ gold”

[@richbozzi3148]

@@tyc4587 if u read the New Testament, it’s not hard to see Jesus’s disdain for religion and all the baggage it brings..

[@annk.8750]

Of course morality comes with evolution. The basis of moral behavior is trust. Here's a plausible scenario to explain the evolution of morality. Our caveman ancestors, just as in society today, needed to trust one another for mutual support and protection. It's hard to trust a person who would steal your best spear or your mate or your haunch of venison, so untrustworthy individuals could be kicked out of the group, forced to survive in a dangerous group without the support of others. Result: greater survival of those who were not offenders against the moral code of the tribe. It's not just humans. Other social animals have their own moral codes ...and also expel those who break their rules. Associating only with moral individuals is a survival strategy.

[@stevenrogersfineart4224]

Now think of this. How many people thrive in society that are immoral and dishonest people. How many of them have every resource at their disposal. How many of them sent people to war for their purposes/quarrels? Plenty. Jesus was perfect and was massacred. There are very few people, including Hitchens, that would deny that. So morality as a necessity of evolution doesn't seem to stand imho.

[@annk.8750]

@@stevenrogersfineart4224 There are people like that in society today, yes. Tell me, are those the people you choose to trust? If you lived a few millennia age, are they the ones you'd want to live with in a small, close society? Are they the ones you'd trust if they were the only ones who could protect you from starvation in a cold winter, or from the perils of a charging animal? I rest my case.

[@Think-dont-believe]

@@stevenrogersfineart4224 jesus was perfect and Very few people including Hitchens would not deny that.. 🤔Hitchens agree jesus was perfect. So that would require Hitchens to agree 1-there was a jesus 2-a. Virgin pregnancy b.jesus was of a virgin birth. C.To a women who had a 10 year old. 3- a. jesus preformed miracles b. believe in miracles 5-a. he was son of god b. believe in god Reality is not something to be afraid of and someones loss of that is not to be made fun of … hopefully listing this clearly may show you its time to go talk to someone who can help. I wish you the best.

[@samirzen3701]

Hitches: This evil god let my ice cream fall, I hate him!! Pastor: Be a man!! stop crying out. Someone should tell Hitches that his ice cream fell 'cos he didn't pay attention to the laws of gravity.

[@dr.rickmarshall6697]

You can cry out to a rock and get the same result you live in a fantasy in your head with a God not of your choosing it depends on what part of the world you were born to see what religion you will be and if you were born in the wrong part of the world then you go to hell this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard.

[@theresepearce205]

Religion was invented when the first Con man met the 1st fool ,, Mark Twain Hitch was a remarkable man pure genius so missed

[@oddjob7821]

Religion is the art of looking at blue and seeing red. Best work of fiction except for the Hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. I consider religion as a form of mental illness.

[@evannlorman7926]

Cringe

[@mikewiz1054]

Funniest part of this is Wilson saying it would be better to be an atheist than a Muslim because it’s a false religion. Hilarious coming from a Christian since all religion is fictitious and founded on mythology

[@Globeguy1337]

‘Ironic that my interlocutor thinks that I am wrong, when, in fact, it is he, himself that is wrong! It is also telling that this irony is lost on him. Pwned.’

[@John-dh1od]

Hitchens did in fact leave his first pregnant wife and child for another woman so