Hoi4: What if Japan Attacked the SOVIETS Instead? (Plan North)

Of all the what ifs, this is something that took a long time to play out. Japan was faced with many points in its story when things could have done differently. So what if they did?
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[@generalaj7164]

What if the UK🇬🇧 didn’t appease Germany🇩🇪?

[@thebackflippingcat3322]

What if Japan was in the Allies?

[@stakuyi]

Great question

[@charlesc.9012]

A Churchill moment right there.

[@8-bitstream379]

​@@stakuyiI think a better one would be what if the soviet union's collective security plan worked. It's generally the same idea.

[@Thekilleroftanks]

@@thebackflippingcat3322 it couldve been, but that means altering the european mind set all the way back in the 1910s when the ruso japanese war was happening. that was kinda the beginning of the road which resulting in japan splitting ties with their european allies mainly because of the racism. and the fact they didnt want japan to invade and take over china, because europeans very much wanted to keep their port towns open.

[@lorekeeper8117]

What if Teddy Roosevelt was president during WW1 (Great War Redux Mod) only if you want to do mods, of course.

[@Weatheredcutcopperstairs]

Teddy Roosevelt def top 10 americanos

[@stakuyi]

I want to open this up to mods

[@lordgiacomos2551]

Yes, I've heard multiple perspectives as to what earlier US intervention would look like.

[@acanadianchicken]

​@@stakuyi USA is getting a rework for GWR You might want to do this suggestion after the rework

[@maintiax]

@@stakuyiplease wait till the great war redux’ next update, it will become wayyyy more realistic america wise

[@ThatStenGuy1941]

The allies : Japans part of the Axis, they should be punished. US : Hol' up, let them cook.

[@Corporate101-mk6ib]

@@ThatStenGuy1941 crazy how both of those countries are now in the top 5 for GDP size

[@lactosetheintolerant.]

What if operations unthinkable occurred? ( preferably playing as USA, also would recommend doing this in r56. )

[@charlesc.9012]

Soviet manpower was already at its limit, and its military only managed the eastern front due to machine tools, trucks and engines from lend-lease, and still didn't fare that well against a seriously starved Germany. Even without Operation Unthinkable happening, the German commanders and former service members were already active under US service within the decade in our timeline. Whosoever believes the red army is a match for the USA is delusional.

[@sqwidlord8344]

What was operation unthinkable?

[@nicholash.449]

​@sqwidlord8344 a post war invasion of the Soviet union before they could get the bomb

[@trapical]

IRL, the major problem would be a lack of public support. Gamewise, it wouldn't be that hard, as the US factory output in 1945 is just insane (and the Soviets lack sufficient rubber) meaning the Soviet airforce would get obliterated in a few months and they wouldn't be able to create enough planes to counter the Allied close air support.

[@andyfriederichsen]

Operation Unthinkable was a plan by Great Britain but it definitely would've relied heavily on the USA being onboard and a mod allowing post-WW2 content would be a very good idea.

[@viniciuscapelloto9785]

Exactly! context is important!

[@stakuyi]

Easily the most vital thing in these scenarios

[@TopatTom]

I like that part of staks vidjo 👍

[@noinfo5630]

Regarding context of the initial assumption: why would the border skirmishes be more successful (and subsequently make the army faction gain power)? I'd say because adaptations in tactics by young innovative officers. This would not just legitimate but rather imply a shift away from Banzai charges to technology e.g. tanks.

[@Err18u5]

Love the video, thanks ❤

[@sydryi3086]

agreed, alt histories are fun but many people just leave out the 'why' and 'how' factors

[@zegolden314]

What if the funny mustache man listened to Rommel and focused the war in Africa instead of Barbarossa? PS: Love your content, and this is from a book called *How H*tler could have won World War II. It’s a great book.

[@arthas640]

That is one of histories great "what ifs", especially since if he'd managed to get the timing right he could have gotten the British to at least agree to a peace deal letting them keep captured territory the British would likely have agreed if Germany didn't have a second front fighting the Soviets since the Brits still had the Japanese to worry about and Germany was mainly looking to take French colonies and some British colonies that weren't that highly valued compared to those in Asia like India and Malaysia. Germany could never have withstood against all of the Allies but if they could avoid the US and deal with the western front before poking the Soviet bear they at least stood a chance of a diplomatic victory.

[@zegolden314]

@@arthas640Ysah. This is certainly the greatest what if. In that book, the author wrote that Hitler was inspired of the British Empire and was willing to let them keep all their land if they let Germany have free reign of Europe

[@nercksrule]

The darkest what-if timeline: The Moscow-Berlin Axis.

[@animeXcaso]

what if rommel actually listened to Bastico and focused on Malta instead of overstretching supply.lines in a stupid race for Cairo?

[@arthas640]

@@animeXcaso Egypt made some sense since taking or breaking the Suez canal would have been devastating for the British and would have hurt the Pacific war as well since there was tons of trade still going to/from Asia and Europe with India alone providing tons of food to the British empire and the Allied war effort in general. I think the Germans would have been better off focusing on destroying Suez and taking a few colonies like Libya and Algeria rather then trying to actually take Egypt since it was useful for the British but not for the Germans even if the Germans could take it. It wouldnt have been easy but i always wonder what a German St. Nazaire style raid on Suez would have managed to do: just send a ship full of explosives and commandos at the canal locks and blowing it up to shut down Suez for weeks or months or years.

[@HontounoShiramizu]

It should be noted that even after the invasion of China many voices in the Japanese military were calling for a joint invasion of the USSR with Nazi Germany. Those stopped after Ribbentrop-Molotov on the face of it making that proposition untenable (Germany never told Japanese officials of their plans for attack since in their hubris they believed a joint attack was unnecessary).

[@amxelcbis4464]

the "showa restoration" is actually what the kodoha faction advocated, so i think that's what they'd do historically. their song is even called the "ode to showa restoration".

[@CombatMagic]

Yeah, but like he explained in the video, the point is that Hitohito wouldn't had wanted that at all to begin with, what's the point of him being the absolute leader to a people that wants the opposite of what he wanted? They would *have* to default to a Shogunate, in which the Emperor is "commanding" them, but really the generals are doing what they want, and the Emperor going "sure, whatever."

[@TheBucketSkill]

@@CombatMagic What the hell did he even really want? Or did he just want anything other than coup for stability? Idk you never hear about what the emperor's opinions were in depth.

[@ternel]

Couple things I disagree with this timeline. First is lend lease from the Americans to the Soviets would most likely not occur in this situation since the Americans have no reason to get involved with the second Russo Japanese war. Without American factories to supplement soviet production, there is no way the soviets would be able to have the materials on hand to fight 2 wars like this, even if they fought with superior weapons. Second, in our timeline the soviets had time to move their production east to the Urals which was beyond the German reach. In this scenario with forces already diverted east, it's likely the soviets wouldn't have had that time and would have their domestic production shattered which would have compounded their deficit in war material. Without a Pearl Harbor event to get the Americans into the war, it is likely the US would have stayed out entirely. Without American support, North Africa might look very different and the British might have lost Cairo and the Canal. Also note is that had the boarder skirmishes gone differently, it is likely that a certain General Zhukov would have either been killed on the field or even purged for failing to contain the Japanese, thus depriving the soviets of what in our timeline was one of their best commanders. Finally, there is also the possibility that America actually lend leases Japanese efforts to destroy the soviets. Keep in mind the west did try to intervene in the Russian Civil war in the 1920s only to see the reds win over the whites. Now with the Germans in the west and the Japanese in the east, the Americans might be willing to support the Japanese efforts to destroy communism.

[@Thebaconmurderer]

I was just typing this out, but one more thing I would have included was the fact that sustaining a couple million men on both fronts would have absolutely crumpled under the Soviet infrastructure. I feel like starvation would have wiped out half the forces or just plain made them surrender, at least to the Germans. I don't know if they would want to surrender to the Japanese at that time. I also feel as if the Germans would have diverted more troops to Africa or Italy since they would have a large portion of the Soviet troops off in the east. Also, the loss of the Caucasus would halt the majority of the Soviet armor and aircraft advancements, which plays in part with the US lend lease.

[@MisterMick113]

Yes I was wondering this myself. Since the Japanese are still trading with the US here, how would the Soviets have been able to keep up a two front war? Especially considering the Japanese had the resources available as well as decent manpower in China. It would make sense that they would try the Asia for Asians propaganda from our timeline so they would be drawing on their captured territory and maybe even a Chinese army to help fight the Soviets.

[@LordDaret]

Plus considering that people didn’t really see the difference between the USSR and Germany, it is likely the communist wouldn’t be supported because they were viewed as evil anyway in the eyes of the allies.

[@nathanbean8763]

Very good points, I think it may even be feasible, like your last point, for the US to have, if not supported the Germans, at least not given aid to Britain, potentially forcing a British capitulation.

[@Za11oy]

I think there are several points of contention to take into such a scenario and each one pays heavy influence into how things would have played out. How much supports would the USA gives the Japanese in their fight against Communism. How much support they would have given the Allies for that matter, in the case that the Japanese and Germany were busy with the Soviets. One have to wonder if the Japanese really wouldn't expand at all toward the south, taking down some of the resources vital to the Allies, without the USA objecting to it. Because the sphere of influence that they wanted to build was over much of the pacific after all. Then there are other consideration, would that focus shift of the Japanese to the Soviets, only delay the USA joining the Allies or stop it altogether, of course, the USA didn't win the war all on their own, but they gave a significant boost to the Allies that without the war against the Japanese might have looked quite different. And finally. There is one other consideration that I think is important. With the Soviets distracted in the East, it's very much possible that Germany would have secured the resources of oils that they attacked the Soviet Union for in the first place. With the fuel to burn, and possibly a weaker support to the Allies, it's certainly possible to wonder if the Allies would have been able to stop Germany, and in quite the same way. There are so many factors. And I'm not entirely convinced that it's possible to even completely cover everything.

[@mertcanozkan7891]

I actually really like how you are explaining the historical context and what you are doing. Makes the video so much better in my opinion. Keep it up man.

[@LordDaret]

Wait, how would the USSR be able to hold off the Germans before they could capture all of the Soviet industry? Less men on the western front means more land gains faster for the Germans, and more factories would be captured before they move beyond the Urals, which means less weapons and resources. Plus this would force the USSR to maintain two very intensive supply chains, and the Japanese frontline would be in distant remote terrain where only so much material could be moved to. Sure, less would be encircled but it also means less would be available to defend. Also since Japan doesn’t wake American up in December 1941, they don’t join the allies and coordinate effort or provide unrestricted support for the war effort. This also includes the USSR, which was viewed as being an evil aggressor because of their annexing of Baltic states. They received A LOT of equipment and food from the US, so the Soviet army would be very under equipped and under supplied. in such a timeline, the Soviets would be pushed all the way to the Urals by the Germans while the Japanese front would be stagnant but painful.

[@SwedieYT]

What if Norway and Sweden allowed the allies to cross their borders in order to help out Finland in The Winter War?

[@Thebaconmurderer]

Oh the issue wasn't if they would have let allies come across. It was mainly the fact that they didn't want to oppose th soviets. If your remember from history, the Soviets had taken multiple countries before Austrai was even absorbed by Germany. The Baltics and bessarabia from the Romanians. The allies didn't care about what the soviets did they only cared about what the Germans did.

[@noinfo5630]

They did, or at least Churchill claims in his memoirs that he did. (Not their occupation as such but the expansion of communism.) The problem was (UK perspective) that the Baltics and Bessarabia were too far away, geographically but most important psychologically. They never were in the British sphere of interest and therefore not in the minds of the public. Do not forget, Chamberlain with his appeasement politics was not a lonely wolf but the head of the (at the time) predominant faction. An attack on a former Allie (kind of), in foreign waters would never gain the necessary public support.

[@ForageGardener]

The allies were allied with the soviets they would not help.findland that way 😂

[@mesa6345]

The way you setup and explain how things become alternate is my favourite part of the video! Keep it up!

[@512TheWolf512]

the severity of your overestimation of the ussr is crazy. in your scenario, americans never show up to help, and with no far eastern ports, the lend-lease doesn't save them. the ussr would've definitely collapsed under pressure from both the japanese and the germans.

[@JamesSolana]

Exactly he could’ve just kept the attack going and they would’ve eventually folded no matter how much was lost on the Japanese side

[@sarajupet1780]

Not to mention all airforce technological efforts would be focused in air-land battle instead of naval combat. Instead of the Zero they'd have long range fighters, bombers and CAS specialized in fighting in Siberia, and that would obliterate the Soviet tanks. But yeah, the lack of land-lease is the most glaring omission in this alt-history scenario.

[@simonnachreiner8380]

This is even more impactful than you would initially think. Lend lease didn't just include supplies and parts it also included a personal, designs, and technology. Before lend lease the Soviet air program was a s*** show and the tank program was actually politically sabotaged. If there's no lend lease coming in it's honestly debatable if the Soviets would even have a tank and Air Force at all. Honestly being interesting multiplayer scenario with the Soviets using armored trains and mounted cavalry as that was what the politburo assumed was the ideal form of war. Maybe some prop planes. I honestly don't think the Soviet air program would get far enough to be relevant in time.

[@Blankskeen]

The manpower advantage the Soviets had over the European Axis would become less significant against the full might of the Japanese. Japan had a larger population than Germany at that time.

[@dimas3829]

@@Blankskeen Japan would need to go through inexisting infrastructure all the way to Urals to even manage to do anything meaningful against soviets, though. Siberians oilfields weren't discovered at the time so it all would be significant waste of Jap resources, duh.

[@CultureCrossed64]

You did leave one thing out. Two thirds of Soviet aviation fuel came from the Allies- would the allies have sent them a bunch of fuel against the Japanese threat? In addition to all of the other Lend Lease they got. And with Vladivostok taken by the Japanese, the Soviets wouldn't have been able to receive a lot of/most of it. You just can't send as much overland/using planes as you can with a ship.

[@sbeaber]

Also, with the collapse of Moscow all legitimacy the Soviet Union had would have been gone. infighting would have torn the country's leadership apart.

[@bwl57]

Yeah I actually see this scenario playing out to the point there might not be a Soviet union post war or a modern Russia as we know it today. EVENTUALLY the USA would have come to help Britain and France but who knows how long the voters would have held out for without pearl harbor..... probably enough American ships get sunk by Germans but that could take another year or 2.

[@pdonsudlor5429]

Well the US wasn’t in the war…so they would’ve had to get from Uk…

[@pdonsudlor5429]

Also, would American lend lease to the Soviets have been as prevalent? Presumably US-Japan relations would’ve been better with the trade

[@Wilsontripplets]

​@@pdonsudlor5429As well as pulling out of China.

[@ashwynlentini1317]

What if Italy sided with the allies instead of the axis

[@rocketman831]

Thats impossible

[@kermoots9261]

Allies would just win faster? You're just making the losing side weaker at that point

[@theicedragon100]

@@kermoots9261 i dont know considering all their problem Italy might have been a net negative. /s

[@huni1939]

​@rocketman831 not impossible, Mussolini actually disliked the Anschluss also there is a path in the focus tree where you can ratify the Stresa front and you can ally the Uk and France

[@whoareyouyouareclearlylost323]

BELLA CIAO!

[@mpevey]

I started watching all your vids during Covid because you were so good at explaining the subject matter you were covering so well. It kept me engaged and even better, kept me better informed. Keep up the wonderful work and I'm always looking forward to the next video!

[@stakuyi]

Glad you like them!

[@disasterratio1388]

What if France intervened in the Spanish Civil War?

[@walnzell9328]

They did intervene as part of the League of Nations. They murdered Republican Spain.

[@heylolp9]

I really like how in these Videos Stak uses the Game as nothing but an example and actually uses actual historical information to talk about the example scenario that's happening inside HOI4 The game ain't the focus, History is

[@leestewart72]

No attack on the US by Japan, and the US would've remained neutral for far longer. There would not have been any lend lease to the USSR. The Soviets would've crumbled without that support.

[@bossy1496]

my thoughts exactly, the US may not even join world war 2 at all, the US was very much anti war, it was really FDR who wanted war, without any sort of provocation, the US would probably solely support the UK with lend lease like they were already doing in late 1939, while the soviets fall and are split by the Japanese and Germans, with this, cries from the British public would see Churchill be forced to seek peace as they'd see there to be no way onto the continent once the soviets fall. probably there being a second phony war of around 2-3 years until churchill is eventually voted out of power with anyone with a brain taking his place and peacing out. the germans had very minimal ambitions in the west, with maybe Alsace Lorraine and Luxembourg being annexed, but aside from that, leaving the 2 nations mostly in tact with their pre war government possibly even being restored, although the east would see Germany most likely end up deporting the polish and slavic population to near the Urals or into Siberia, while Germany sees economic boom from being able to exploit their newly acquired lands Japan would also probably take a big chunk of Siberia, but with China still being a mess, they may possibly consider intervention into the other warlords to secure their Chinese domains In overall, no communism so yeah

[@dimas3829]

there woudl be trade and Soviets would easily win without any american help to begin with.

[@label2841]

Well....​@@dimas3829

[@_greenrunner_]

@@dimas3829Even Stalin disagreees with you. Like it or not, lend lease was essential for the soviet war effort

[@dimas3829]

@@_greenrunner_ Stalin agrees with me. Declaration to potential enemies that they played a great role in common victory are just that, proclamations to placate the evil forces of US and UK.

[@LordMyrga]

What if Poland succeeded in the creation of the Intermarium (or a similarly styled faction)? Historically the concept was largely pushed by Józef Piłsudski and was not hugely popular in the actual government of Poland that he established. Though that was largely as a result of fear over the wars that would have needed to be waged against the USSR - and the general failure of those wars to create an independent Ukraine in particular - it would be interesting to see an alternate version of the historical concept that could play out. Rather interestingly this would also involve the Sanitation Government paths, but I'll leave you to decide which would take control (if the Intermarium could even be detached from Józef Piłsudski's personal vision)!

[@AmraithNR]

Sanation, not sanitation 😂

[@Sooper-Pumpkin]

I think one that could be cool is what if China actually accepted fault for the Marco-Polo bridge incident giving away the land and territories and coming back to Japan after securing the rest of the country Also Completely separate idea what if a massive multiplayer game was put together with multiple of these what if scenarios and no AI could mess it up

[@GalacticExplorer_Edits33]

Japan most likely would have attacked China regardless, even in the game they immediately justify for Shanghai even after you surrender that to Japan

[@Spanishinquisition98]

Im gonna keep going with this: What if Britian went fascist under mosley? or What if King Edward VIII didnt abdicate and formed the kings party?

[@trapical]

Any of the major Allied powers joining the Axis makes the war a pretty one-sided stomp with the Axis winning. You could see this in the "what if France joined the Axis" video that Stak did.

[@Spanishinquisition98]

@@trapical Except with mosley, his path involves allying italy against germany, not joining the axis unless stak does the london pact. Regardless, I just wanna see stak talk about these paths

[@RandomHQ433]

These arent really realistic scenarios, the kings party maybe but mosley was seen as a crazy peron by most citizens

[@MC-yt1uv]

@@trapical Depends on what you mean. The US had a massive industrial base. The US and USSR could have likely taken on Germany, Japan, Italy, France and the UK combined. The war would have been much more brutal but the US had a ludicrous amount of resources and was essentially untouchable. Hearts of Iron doesn't do a great job of representing the US accurately during the war because if it did it would be a forgone conclusion that whichever side had the US would win. For game balance reasons the US is much weaker than it was historically.

[@Robodroide-NPC]

What if Portugal honored the anglo-portuguese treaty and joined the allies?

[@walnzell9328]

@cubefreak123 Portugal's government was very friendly towards the Spanish nationalists and Portuguese forces even intervened on the side of the nationalists. The ruling ideology of Portugal at the time was fascistic and they'd be looking for every excuse to not fight other fascists. This means they'd be really hesitant to honor that treaty. Them letting the British use the Azores and not doing much of anything else is the definitive Portuguese WWII experience.

[@MateusFerreiraSousa-hq7jp]

To that happens Portugal needed to not help the Nationalist on the Spanish Civil war and turn his ideology into Democracy or other that is not fascism

[@jay-1800]

@@MateusFerreiraSousa-hq7jpin most games Franco will win the civil war unless you’ve tinkered with the settings. They still receive substantial support from Italy and Germany generally.

[@MahmudHasan-me]

If that happaed spain might join axis

[@samueltrusik3251]

What if Czechoslovakia sucessfully created the little entente?

[@jaredjosephsongheng372]

Already completed. (See "HOI4 Alt History, What if France made its own Little Entente Alliance in HOI4") Unless you're actually talking about making the Little Entente AS Czechoslovakia. Which would be more difficult to be honest.

[@mariuszwalkosz2850]

You are omitting one crucial point, i.e. US involvment. Do keep in mind that until Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, most of US was pretty content just 'financing' the European War. It was only after Japan's strike that Hitler declared war on the US - up to this point everything that was happening was, in American eyes, just another European border dispute, with some convulsions reaching colonies and overseas territories. Japan not attacking South would mean that the US would not join the Allies (either at all, or at a much later date - again, they were declared upon, instead of declaring on their own) and there would be no Allied invasion of France as we know it. UK alone, even with much easier situation regarding supply and their Far Eastern posessions/manpower, would not have been able to stage Overlord (or would do it at a significantly later date). Despite FDR's personal attitude, American voters were not so keen on getting involved in a war that was not their own, a US warship or merchant ship sunk by Uboats was not that big of a deal. Last but not least, all sides of the conflict experienced serious manpower crisis sooner or later. Contrary to popular belief, even the Russians were scraping the bottom of the barrel as early as mid-1944 (which is why female combat battalions were a thing there, a highly unprecedented development). UK might've ended up with a ton of surplus US-produced equipment, with noone to operate it; Soviets and Germans could've ended up in a trench war stalemate somewhere in Ukraine/Poland, with neither of them able to overpower the other side; likewise, Japan-USSR frontline could've also ground to a halt. Japan not wasting men on garrisoning bazzilion Pacific islands could've fought Soviets to a standstill, given the terrain and climate of the areas this particular confilct would play out. Still, a nicely played-out scenario that you've given here, kudos and cheers for that

[@kettch777]

You're getting one fact wrong. The US declared war on Japan the day after Pearl Harbor. THEN Hitler declared war on the US in support of his Japanese allies. I believe that war with the US would have come regardless, but if the Axis had focused on taking out the USSR before expanding it, the war could have ended much differently. It's questionable how long the British could have held off the Germans if the Battle of Britain had continued. As it was, Hitler was too occupied to really help the Japanese in the Pacific, and the US was able to win the naval war.

[@mattevans4377]

I think you underestimate the fact the USA wouldn't be involved as much in this timeline. Lend Lease was extremely strong.

[@jacksonal]

the historical context is the most interesting part! thank you for going in depth on that!

[@ericfaz1427]

Interesting note about the sinking of the USS Panay. It is rumored that Claire Chennault (leader of the Flying Tigers) had turned over sensitive Japanese aircraft equipment to the Panay; so the sinking by the Japanese was an "accident."

[@tobiaslinder7579]

this series is really excellent. An interactive history lesson! Keep up the good work!

[@micaldomlancer1494]

An interesting side effect I think is that the European empires would of lasted longer, especially the British Empire. The main reason Australia and New Zealand left was because we no longer trusted that the British would be able to defend us if war broke out around us so we needed to turn to others, namely America. Without Japan knocking on our doorstep we wouldn't even consider leaving and probably would of stayed longer than we actually did.

[@davidtanase7753]

This is so great because you are doing something completely different from the other KZbinrs. Great job ❤

[@ztrax7133]

If I’m remembering correctly, the Japanese tanks sucked partially because of the terrain the Japanese were fighting in. Tanks like tigers and panthers wouldn’t be too effective in the mountains of India and jungles in South Asia, so the Japanese had to make them lighter in order to be able to be used in this terrain.

[@lontongstroong]

Still got clobbered by much heavier Shermans

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

It's more that they lacked the naval transports to send their heavier stuff. Which they did have.

[@quaker2636]

In other words, they didn't "suck". They were built for the purpose of fighting in the difficult terrain of China and Oceania as infantry support, Japan was just in a different situation than the western powers

[@ztrax7133]

@@quaker2636 indeed, also forgot to mention when I made that comment a bit ago that another factor would be oil. The heavier the tank the more fuel it requires and as we all know Japan was scraping up as much fuel as they could get so they couldn’t spare as much for “stronger” tanks.

[@manueldeabreu1980]

The key is Zhukov's armies would not be able to be transferred West with the Japanese threat. Even if it turned into a battle of attrition it prevents the Soviets from moving armies West.

[@demavend6847]

I've been seriously enjoying how you do this what if series. Thank you for being such an entertaining storyteller stakuyi.

[@DaVinciwithaphaser]

I love that he throws to keep things historically accurate. A true man of alt history. Good vid stakuyi.

[@gamm8939]

But its not, at all, historically accurate. There wouldnt have been a lend lease to the Soviets, the US wouldn't have joined the war against the Germans, the Soviets couldn't have moved industry behind the Urals, and supplying millions of men on both sides of the continent is absolutely impossible. The Soviet Union would have collapsed.

[@anandm4748]

This would've been a better timeline ngl. The USSR is too weak to spread Communism or support Israel (as they lack access to Czechoslovakia). China is still liberated from Chiang Kai Shek, this time by Japan. The West is overwhelmingly powerful, so the Cold War ends much faster with the USSR dissolving much earlier.

[@dominicanemperor28]

What if Japan was invaded instead of being nuked. U.S takes south, Soviets take the north

[@nathanindarsingh5252]

They may have still used the nukes. Especially when they saw the death toll of the invasion begin to climb. Some estimates say it would've been in the millions.

[@delryn256]

I love the historical context you put into these videos. Brilliant!

[@charlieturk2146]

I'm iffy about this one, I think that the Japanese could absolutely have pushed further as the Soviet supply situation was so much worse

[@brianlong2334]

The soviets would have collapsed by 1943 in a two front war, but the Japanese planned invasion was for September 1941 they cancelled Kantokuen on the 9th of august 1941 after the oil embargo on the 1st But the Japanese never planned to go more western than Lake baikal and half of Mongolia, they could have but only a few hundred kilometres. The soviets biggest iron ore mine was near Lake baikal on the western side it produced about 30% of the USSR iron ore.

[@charlieturk2146]

@@brianlong2334 I agree with this, the Japanese wouldn't have got far past Irkutsk but they wouldn't need to

[@brianlong2334]

@charlieturk2146 100% they have millions of men tied down thousands of tanks and aircraft that the USSR would have fighting the Germans and potentially hundreds of thousands to a few million casualties and thousands of tanks and aircraft lost the USSR would need a miracle at that point. 10% of the soviets farmland and animals were located in this region after losing so much to Germany that millions would have starved even if the Japanese only took half of the area in question, not to mention the soviets planned a fighting retreat the only way they would have won this is if they were fighting the Japanese alone.

[@thatoneguyiii1003]

The Japanese soldier learning they’re getting sent to a frozen wasteland instead of a tropical island:

[@iamherenet1569]

What if the US backed Germany? Popular sentiment in the states at the time wws very pro german up until the war with englamd end even then there was still large support for the germans as a whole

[@trapical]

Any of the major Allied powers joining the Axis makes the war a pretty one-sided stomp with the Axis winning. You could see this in the "what if France joined the Axis" video that Stak did. A perhaps more interesting one would be the US joining the Commitern, and then the UK joining the Axis, to make it a fair fight.

[@1f1suk1tsURDAD6D9]

I wouldn’t say the sentiment was pro German. Pro isolationist/anti war yes but definitely more sympathetic to Britain than Germany. In no way were very significant amounts of people in the U.S supporting a foreign state in Nazi Germany

[@jakas2524]

@@trapical the us joining the comintern??? what are you on

[@luker.6967]

@@trapical You really think that with just the addition of France the Axis win? That is silly, British and American naval supremacy would still not be surpassed, maybe the USSR would capitulate and Britain would lose Africa but ultimate victory would not be achieved.

[@ryanthrash7783]

Great video. I wholeheartedly agree that context, as you pointed out, is key to understanding history, and, by extension, alternate histories. Keep it up!

[@halorien1]

What if Franklin Roosevelt kept the two term precedent instead of more terms? How would this have affected the United States and their policies going into WW2?

[@katakanacristatus8123]

I've learned more about history from these videos then I ever did at school thankyou for creating these and the alternative timeline is really interesting.

[@DeaconBlues117]

Did the game give a reason for the US to join the Allies when "Fortress America" still seemed to be holding up, what with Japan _not_ bombing Pearl Harbor?

[@Dragonette666]

another issue is that the US had been sanctioning and trying to contain Japan for almost a decade. There would have to be a serious POD to explain why there are no hostilities between Japan and the US.

[@MC-yt1uv]

The US clearly favored the Allies. I think even without Pearl Harbor the US would have eventually joined in.

[@DeaconBlues117]

@@MC-yt1uv _FDR_ favored the Allies. Most Americans seemed to believe they were impervious behind the shields of the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans, up until the moment a US base in the Pacific was destroyed.

[@ma-saracen]

I love your narration and playing into a realistic approach.

[@Iron_Blood_Enjoyer1933]

Since you want to open this series to mods, may I suggest one in the Great War Redux? What if Germany decided to contain the power of Kaiser Wilhelm II and became a Democracy?

[@tino85011]

Loved your defence of you providing context to why and how the alternative timeline happens. Im new to the channel and its something ive really enjoyed! Keep up the good work

[@FromRussiaWithLuv007]

What if a West Virginia town was transported in time to Germany during the Thirty Years War?(1632-Ring of Fire mod)

[@Jakdisi1]

I actually LOVE these explanation videos. Sure, over simplified stuff is cool sometimes, but its very nice seeing the plans and shi

[@arkadiuszrenc1498]

What if the Allies considered USSR invasion of Poland as a declaration of war, like they did with the Germans. It would be interesting to see that three way war

[@dimas3829]

it would be hard to do so, since USSR took over only their own territories that Poland agressively conquered from Soviets in the 1920s. No one liked the hyena of Europe, hence why French not really attacked Germans either.

[@siyacer]

​@@dimas3829conquered from the soviets who were aggressively conquering everyone else

[@wastelander89]

I love your well thought out videos Longer the better. I love long hoi4 videos that show most things being done. Thanks for another great video man

[@index-mandex9580]

What if the blackshirts took power in England?

[@usualkeyboard6l204]

I love these videos. I enjoy the explanations behind why is could work out these seperate ways. Keep on with these videos

[@alba9172]

what if France had resisted Germany at every opportunity? (Spain, Czechoslovakia,...)

[@leonardopicconi781]

If they attacked in order to avoid the rimilitarization of Rhineland they would've steamrolled the newborn Wehrmacht

[@Thebaconmurderer]

Hitler had already decided that if Frnace or England denied the remilitirization of the Rhineland and / or sent an ultimatum for Spain, they would have immediately backed down. The taking of Austria didn't really worry them to much since France didn't really care. They were more worried that Austria would try and restart the Austrian empire. But at the point of Czechslovakia, the Germans had enough manpower and tanks to do exactly what they did the first time. At the point of taking Czechslovakia was just to ensure that they wouldn't be blind sided and have to siege massive forts along the entire sudentenland.

[@CoramDeogenua]

Soviets would have finished military industrialization and the purge and steam rolled the entire continent in their second attempt of "world revolution"

[@kevinsundberg9617]

Just stumbled across your channel even though my algorithm has a large amount of alt history in it. I like your take on the "logical" progressions over the "historian knows best" view. Aiming to set things to be what could have been to the best of your knowledge really sets the stage for some good plausible alt time lines. Honestly would be curious to follow a timeline such as this even further into the future, but the butterfly affect gets worse by the day. Still would be curious from an American point of view where we would be right now if Japan picked 1 if by land vs. 2 if by sea.

[@Madskidzz]

What if the BEF were captured and the UK sued for peace.

[@saturn12002]

I watched this with "Tanakas Amazing Commodities" theme playing in the background and it made this so much better.

[@baydenhenry1522]

What if Japan skipped Pearl Harbor and the Philippines

[@walnzell9328]

They'd basically win. American historians and officials soon after the end of the war deduced that if Japan had not attacked Pearl Harbor, it was highly unlikely the US would've gone to war with Japan. Even if they had attacked the Philippines, the US government would've just let them take it.

[@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462]

​@@walnzell9328Seriously? I kind of took it at a given America was going to war at some point

[@Dragonette666]

@@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462 the US had been putting pressure on Japan it's hard for there not to be hostilities.

[@carloschristanio4709]

Roosevelt had a hard on to go to war, you think it was his cousin. The american public was highly isolationist until they fucked with our boats​@joeyjojojrshabadoo7462

[@evannpalma2404]

In our timeline, japan didn't intercept convoy from the US going into the soviet union because they were scared of angeringthe soviet, in this timeline the soviet wouldn't be able to push back the german or japan as japan in this timeline would intercept any lend lease from the US

[@knightblade0188]

And get wrecked once the US started sending warships to defend them.

[@mathieugariepy2948]

This channel is about history as well as gaming. I fully support Stakuyi's decision to take his time explaining the historical situation.

[@magnashield8604]

Something you forget is that I'm this timeline, the soviets run out of fuel. Lend lease has limited ports. The soviets have men and tanks, but no food or fuel. The soviets then crumble.

[@georgegreen711]

What if the Romanovs returned to power in Russia and Kaiser Wilhelm was restored in Germany? (Road to 56 is needed I think.)

[@acanadianchicken]

No, you can do both of these with DLC

[@georgegreen711]

@@acanadianchicken Oh cool. I had thought the Romanov Restoration was R56 only.

[@acanadianchicken]

@@georgegreen711 Nope, if you have NSB, you can go monarchist

[@PigPissBeUponThem]

I love these kinds of videos!!! Thank you for doing what you do. Earned my sub sir❤

[@06fas7]

day 79 of asking for the cat to play Japan

[@Adanomaly]

Hey there Stakuyi, don't have any suggestions for videos or all that in this video, just want to say your content is really creative and fun! Keep it up, and I hope more and more people find the channel!

[@itchymgb2736]

what if franco joined the axis?

[@toddanderson6568]

New viewer who has found this series very enjoyable. The reason that I play these games is for the what ifs. Have you considered a team video with people who actually do videos in the what if genre? As for the slow pace, the slower the better for me. I know the history already, and it is ALL about the set up. Great job!

[@Snoodlebob]

What if the Baltics united to stand against German and (mostly) Soviet aggression? Also it's crazy that people would complain about how slow the timeline is progressing in these videos It's about the story you bring along with the game, if we just wanted to see shogunate Japan (or any of the other alt history scenarios) we'd watch any of the other countless commentary hoi4 videos

[@ramiel7666]

Not much, mostly due to a lack of military production capabilities, and very low population.....there would have been just as much partisan activity, but there's only so much you can do when rifles and grenades are the extent of your arsenal.....

[@Snoodlebob]

@@ramiel7666 Yeah I figured that myself, but as far as hoi4 goes there are pretty few alt-hist options that would both change the timeline by a real margin and are overall somewhat realistic

[@Zhentarim]

3 additional possibilities, which I have doubts about The stabilization of China could not have been more problematic than expected, meaning that when Japan attacked the USSR, Germany would already seize the opportunity Second possibility with the Japanese threat, the USSR's demands to join the Axis would be relatively lower, to the point that they could be considered by them as reasonable, USSR joins the Axis Three through the tests, couldn't Japan change part of the strategy of not improving the strategy of just throwing bodies at the enemy? I tend to agree no, but still

[@Collinized]

Since I saw someone mention WW1 what if Britain never gets involved by Germany never attacking Belgium

[@walnzell9328]

AKA, what if Germany actually did nothing wrong in WWI.

[@PigPissBeUponThem]

My favorite parts are how you weave in the actual real info alone with the alt timeline.

[@ringotango4883]

What if funny mustache man was kicked out of office

[@agurk543]

this is def my fav series love the history behind your moves

[@Tokugawa__]

PETITION FOR DEMOCRATIC MENGKUKO

[@meurtenbaguette]

I absolutely love this series, it's very interesting, based in reality, and isn't super overpowered like hoi4 tends to be. I like that you even "allowed" a loss simply because it makes sense. Well done!

[@PrussianGeneral1815]

What if Austria had kept its monarchy and its sea access but lost what it had lost

[@philswift791]

I have spent 50 years studying WW2 your knowledge base is very impressive. You have earned my subscription.

[@luissolorzano3707]

What if America 🇺🇸 sided with the Axis

[@danielk.3161]

Hello there! As a history student, I have to ask. How much time do you roughly put into research for these types of videos? Do you have to put in research at all, or do you just kind of have that knowledge sitting deep inside your brain? Do you have specific books that you can recommend on WWII, that struck you as particularly interesting? Oh and, for an alternate history scenario: What if hitler did not break the molotov ribbentrop pact?

[@soythelubu5389]

i do thoroughly enjoy how you take time to explain the context and show how it would play out, yes it is not the fastest way to win the game, but i'm not watching this videos to lean that, but rather what happen in history.

[@bluebeastgamer7494]

This is my favorite stakuyi what if video

[@doctorvondoom6368]

I think that you made a significant error of overestimating soviet potential, the Germans would have easily been able to reach Moscow without lend lease and adding a second front which they are absolutely unable to supply would basically mean that there wouldn't be any Soviet war machine in full swing but a state collapse where the front would have fallen apart and both Germany and Japan would have been limited by their logistics in how far in they can get the stale mate would have happened deep inside Russia

[@1f1suk1tsURDAD6D9]

What if Germany never invaded the USSR. What if the allies declared war after annexation of the Sudentland or even after Rhineland

[@BlackBanditXX]

Your view on the IJN Armored Corps is somewhat anachronistic, during the 'interwar' period the Japanese actually had some of the best tanks in the world. The Chieftain has a good video about Japanese tanks. TL;DR: When the Navy faction won, they stole the steel for ships, and Japanese armor development ground to a halt. Thus, when they ended up at war with the US, they were fighting with armor one or even two generations behind!

[@Pepperloveslife]

I love it that you teach people history while playing video games. There need to be more people like you!😁

[@Myjacob99]

I like how he just retreated from the soviet's for no reason to advance his story, instead of just holding

[@rutgerlegemaate9602]

Love your videos man, always some amazing high quality content

[@Emile50]

Man, I am religious, but I hate the abuse of power. I think if a school wants to bring religion in, they can max make 1 religious period per day, where there are different locations for the people with different religions to go to and if yoh don't want to, you just go to your home room. But even then, I can see issues

[@uzockerx9972]

I really like this video series and I've got an idea for another scenario: What if appeasement stoppt at the Anschluss of Austria, meaning that the allies would let the demilitarization of the Rheinland slide, but would prohibit the Anschluss in fear of a too strong Germany.

[@LordAleco]

I don’t know if I’m in the minority based on the comments you said you got about things moving slowly, but if anything I’d love even more historical details and facts to support these alternative paths!

[@axell964]

The big whatif in that scenario is if Japan attacked the US and if not, if the US would join the war anyways. The Soviets would have lost to Germany alone without massive US/British land lease help. No chance they could have won a two front war without the help.

[@poggingmilk9452]

I think its important to note that D-Day, at least to that extent, would have never happened without the US, which wouldnt have gotten involved in the war by 1944 due to Pearl-Harbor not taking place. Meaning D-Day would have most like,y failed, or just been a little distraction, but not anywhere as significant as it actually was, solely because American Resources, Men and Airsupport wouldnt have existed.

[@katherinebot]

I think your analysis is generally very well thought out, though I do think the Japanese may have been able to use captured soviet tanks to further improve the Chi-Nu or complete its development earlier, allowing for the IJA to deploy real tank forces like we’d see in Europe(albeit more as specialized divisions, instead of a fully tank-based army). This would obviously take longer, and be harder to maintain, though it may have given them an opportunity for a second offensive instead of the stalemate they found themselves in. A marine landing on the Kamchatka peninsula to circle around could also be an option, if only to redirect some Soviet forces and allow for the front to move some more earlier on. Either way, I love the way you contextualized your decisions and the commitment to historical events as the guide for the campaign.

[@tsamoka6496]

Hi Stakuyi! If you think it'd be worth it, I think a playthrough of the Youjo Senki Redux mod would be fun to see. Please? It would really make my day. =^x^=

[@atilax_3541]

I love this format for videos. It's also a fun story and more cool history facts, to explain things.

[@gamingnerd651]

This is a kooky one, but what if, right after Hitler nearly took full control of Germany, Kaiser Wilhelm was manipulated by Prussian nationalists and he started a large-scale rebellion in the Prussian homelands, including the Polish lands, and brought back Prussia as an independent state. If you need lore as to why he wasn't stopped and why he didn't fully take over, Hitler hadn't yet fully remobilized the military, as it was only 1933, and this "manipulator" convinced Wilhelm that he couldn't fully take over and that the Prussians being independent was better anyway. Basically, what if Prussia was independent. Also, I really love your videos and alternate history in general

[@rockerfarm6445]

as a historian I really enjoy your videos, sometimes its just nice to get lost in possibilities of the past that were actually realistic

[@Domitian81]

Love this series! Lots of fun. The "so it is" drinking game is going to make me need a new liver soon

[@sebastian1lara]

These videos are great! Just subscribed!